sign emails on untrusted computer but keep key material on a separate computer?

2009-11-17 Thread Timo Juhani Lindfors
Hi,

I'd like to use my MUA on an a regular desktop computer that also runs
web browsers and other potentially buggy software. I don't want to
have my PGP keys on that computer. However, would it still be possible
for the MUA to ask a separate computer to sign emails for me? (The
separate computer has its own keyboard and display so that I can see
what I am about to sign.)

gpg-agent listens on a unix socket. There's a patch to add unix socket
forwarding support to openssh. However, the gpg-agent protocol only
transmits hash of the message to be signed. This is not enough, I have
no way of knowing what I am actually signing.

1) Could gpg-agent protocol be extended to support sending the
complete message to be signed and not just its hash?

2) Is there already some existing protocol that I could use?


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Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread Melikamp The Medley
Hi everyone!

Sorry if you get two of these, I screwed up while subscribing
to the list.

I have a question relating to the symmetric encryption. If I do

gpg -c foo-file

and enter a passphrase, I get an encrypted foo-file.gpg.
Is there a way to tell that it is an encrypted file just by
looking at the contents? I mean, is there a reliable way to
tell that something is _not_ an encrypted file?

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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread Timo Juhani Lindfors
Melikamp The Medley  writes:
> and enter a passphrase, I get an encrypted foo-file.gpg.

gpg seems to be able to determine the cipher used:

$ gpg foo-file.gpg
gpg: CAST5 encrypted data


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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread David SMITH
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 10:52:29AM -0500, Melikamp The Medley wrote:
> Sorry if you get two of these, I screwed up while subscribing
> to the list.
> 
> I have a question relating to the symmetric encryption. If I do
> 
> gpg -c foo-file
> 
> and enter a passphrase, I get an encrypted foo-file.gpg.
> Is there a way to tell that it is an encrypted file just by
> looking at the contents? I mean, is there a reliable way to
> tell that something is _not_ an encrypted file?

Depends on what you mean by "reliable"...

I'm sure if you read RFC-4880, you could work out a byte pattern that
would give a very good indication, for most practical purposes.

However, it would probably be possible for someone to generate a file
artificially in a deliberate attempt to fool the filetype detection
mechanism.  So, it's not "reliable" because it can be fooled
intentionally, but for most likely scenarii (i.e. where people aren't
deliberately trying to fool it), it would work.

If you're running on UNIX (particularly Linux), look at 'man file'.

-- 
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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread Melikamp T. Medley
Thanks for your answers, David, Timo.

A somewhat related question: is there a tool that is designed
to produce "undetectable" encryption, i.e. something that is
very plausibly random? I gather from your answers that gpg does
not do that.

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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread Mario Castelán Castro
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

November 17th for David SMITH 

Linux do not have a file command, that belogs to the rest of the OS.

Linux is only a kernel than is commonly used with the GNU Operating
System, but the name for that system is GNU or GNU/Linux.

In advance thanks by your understanding.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAksDDTEACgkQZ4DA0TLic4h7rQCePxYym6G2KLhhdiNxCZR3U17S
7YUAnA88xhLNkHO/LsTXLBWsR6Ed9+s2
=Wzjs
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

2009/11/17 David SMITH :
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 10:52:29AM -0500, Melikamp The Medley wrote:
>> Sorry if you get two of these, I screwed up while subscribing
>> to the list.
>>
>> I have a question relating to the symmetric encryption. If I do
>>
>> gpg -c foo-file
>>
>> and enter a passphrase, I get an encrypted foo-file.gpg.
>> Is there a way to tell that it is an encrypted file just by
>> looking at the contents? I mean, is there a reliable way to
>> tell that something is _not_ an encrypted file?
>
> Depends on what you mean by "reliable"...
>
> I'm sure if you read RFC-4880, you could work out a byte pattern that
> would give a very good indication, for most practical purposes.
>
> However, it would probably be possible for someone to generate a file
> artificially in a deliberate attempt to fool the filetype detection
> mechanism.  So, it's not "reliable" because it can be fooled
> intentionally, but for most likely scenarii (i.e. where people aren't
> deliberately trying to fool it), it would work.
>
> If you're running on UNIX (particularly Linux), look at 'man file'.

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Re: Problem with the agent, gpg2

2009-11-17 Thread Mario Castelán Castro
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

November 17th for gnupg-users@gnupg.org

I need GNU PG 2 because i want to get out of the 1024 bits limit and
SHA forced for DSA, i want my next key (2010-2012) to be more secure
and accept some SHA2.

Charly Avital: Please note than Linux is a Kernel mixed commonly with
the GNU Operating System, a correct name for that mix is GNU/Linux,
but only "Linux" is not correct.

In advance thans by your understanding.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAksDD4MACgkQZ4DA0TLic4j9sgCbBG1tEGBnJ1aZ2OKt0owqXRYQ
jToAnRHmLg0TUxCdKr7LbyZqJCJbTctO
=L9WA
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread Robert J. Hansen
Melikamp The Medley wrote:
> I mean, is there a reliable way to tell that something is _not_ an
> encrypted file?

If you mean, "a reliable way to tell that something is not an
OpenPGP-encrypted file," then yes: check the OpenPGP header at the
beginning of the message.

If you mean, "a reliable way to tell that something is not an encrypted
file, period," then no, not really.

There are a lot of qualifiers on the "no, not really."  A lot of Ph.D.
theses have been written on this subject: it ties into some really deep
areas of theoretical computer science.  If you want to learn more about
the qualifiers, I'd suggest reading up on algorithmic randomness and
Kolmogorov-Chaitin complexity.  It won't be easy reading, but speaking
personally, I find this stuff fascinating.


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Re: Problem with the agent, gpg2

2009-11-17 Thread Robert J. Hansen
Mario Castelán Castro wrote:
> I need GNU PG 2 because i want to get out of the 1024 bits limit and
> SHA forced for DSA, i want my next key (2010-2012) to be more secure
> and accept some SHA2.

GnuPG 1.4.7 or later (? on the precise version #) supports longer DSAs
and better hash algorithms.  You don't need GnuPG 2.x for that.

> Charly Avital: Please note than Linux is a Kernel mixed commonly with
> the GNU Operating System, a correct name for that mix is GNU/Linux,
> but only "Linux" is not correct.

You are free to call it GNU/Linux if you wish.  Likewise, Charly is free
to just call it "Ubuntu" or "Fedora" or "Linux Mint" or whatever else is
clear and unambiguous, depending on what he wishes.  Let's not start a
holy war over what the One True Name of the operating system is.

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Re: Problem with the agent, gpg2

2009-11-17 Thread Faramir
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Mario Castelán Castro escribió:
> November 17th for gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> 
> I need GNU PG 2 because i want to get out of the 1024 bits limit and
> SHA forced for DSA, i want my next key (2010-2012) to be more secure
> and accept some SHA2.

  You don't need to change to GnuPG 2 for that, GnuPG 1.4.9 (and
probably other earlier versions) already supports DSA2 and RSA keys,
even if the defaults for new key generation is DSA 1024 /ElGamal 2048.
You can enable DSA2 at gpg.conf file, which would allow you to use DSA
2048, or you can chose RSA keys, which can be 1024, 2048 and 4096. GnuPG
1.4.10 already uses RSA 2048 as default for generation of new keys.

   Best Regards

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

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AmvpaXrVzXQxzqNxkJPkctEX3Nrt93Sd2I9S2RyP+novGo3Nc3oNo/8/c4SZT6H9
W25hKSyefM+c5F2Tcu5k8Cia3up5J/nNJfGeqH6M1Loktlj5KoiqDDUNmqJpNIB6
FMA6D2utuHMPAnbyaFvwbS1lNTSeHghAu2cHclp+2ZdDZpfyHVTU8hzAhhMW/zd/
ibqSPXvaMg3pe1nVV19KjnXa3iDDq995ViAVgV/2utMvzuehXzuOwYSRN07y6EU=
=+jpi
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Problem with the agent, gpg2

2009-11-17 Thread David Shaw

On Nov 17, 2009, at 4:29 PM, Robert J. Hansen wrote:


Mario Castelán Castro wrote:

I need GNU PG 2 because i want to get out of the 1024 bits limit and
SHA forced for DSA, i want my next key (2010-2012) to be more secure
and accept some SHA2.


GnuPG 1.4.7 or later (? on the precise version #) supports longer DSAs
and better hash algorithms.  You don't need GnuPG 2.x for that.


1.4.4, to be precise.  That's mid-2006, so it's been supported for a  
good long time.  DSA2 is not, incidentally, the default, which might  
be the root of the confusion here.  You need to run with --enable-dsa2  
to get longer DSA keys with larger hash support.


David


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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread David Shaw

On Nov 17, 2009, at 12:38 PM, Melikamp T. Medley wrote:


Thanks for your answers, David, Timo.

A somewhat related question: is there a tool that is designed
to produce "undetectable" encryption, i.e. something that is
very plausibly random? I gather from your answers that gpg does
not do that.


That is correct, GPG does not do that.  In theory, you could transform  
GPG output in such a way to make it (plausibly) appear random.  The  
difficulty in practice is that my plausible and someone else's  
plausible may not match up - and you also would need a plausible  
reason why you chose to hang on to a bunch of large "random" files on  
your machine ;)


If you did some OpenPGP packet manipulation, you could probably do  
fairly well here... but you'd have to do some work on the receiving  
side to re-create a valid OpenPGP message so GPG could decrypt it.


David


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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread David Shaw

On Nov 17, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Mario Castelán Castro wrote:


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

November 17th for David SMITH 

Linux do not have a file command, that belogs to the rest of the OS.

Linux is only a kernel than is commonly used with the GNU Operating
System, but the name for that system is GNU or GNU/Linux.


Please stop doing this.  Some people call it "GNU/Linux".  Some people  
(the vast majority, at least in the US) call nearly any machine  
running a Linux kernel "Linux".  Some people genuinely don't care.   
The important thing here is that it's not particularly relevant to the  
discussion of GnuPG.


David


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Re: [gpgol] bug in GPA during decryption

2009-11-17 Thread John Clizbe
benoit.an...@orange-ftgroup.com wrote:
> Hello,
>  
> have installed Gpg4win 2.0.1 (2009-09-28). Default setup.
> am running windows XP SP2
> outlook 2003 -(11.8206.8221) SP3
>  
> I managed to create the keys and import someelse key.
> No pbm sending encrypted email - they are ok at the destination, but
> cannot view them in the sent items folder locally (see error in the
> capture).

You most likely need to add your own key to the list of recipients

See --encrypt-to  and --default-recipient  in the documentation

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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread Doug Barton
Timo Juhani Lindfors wrote:
> Melikamp The Medley  writes:
>> and enter a passphrase, I get an encrypted foo-file.gpg.
> 
> gpg seems to be able to determine the cipher used:
> 
> $ gpg foo-file.gpg
> gpg: CAST5 encrypted data

When I try this with gpg2 I get the following:

gpg2 bunsen_honeydew.jpg.gpg
gpg: error reading key: No public key

I get the same result with a file encrypted to a public key (as this
one was) and with a symmetrically encrypted file.

Am I doing something wrong here?


Doug

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Re: Problem with the agent, gpg2

2009-11-17 Thread Doug Barton
Mario Castelán Castro wrote:
> November 14th 2009 for gnupg-users@gnupg.org subject "Problem with the
> agent, gpg2"
> 
> Hi, I sucefulle compiled and installed GNU PG 2.0.12 but when i do
> some operation than requires a password i get a message like the
> following.

It was never clear to me from the ensuing thread whether or not you
had gpg-agent running, if so, what command line options did you use,
etc. It's also not clear to me if you installed a pinentry program of
any kind.

If you still want help with this (as opposed to just using gpg 1 which
I think would be a better option) you should probably post some more
details about your setup.


Doug

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Re: Trust reference

2009-11-17 Thread Doug Barton
Susan Stewart wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> I'm filing a bug for my IM client (Gajim) because it currently only
> allows sending of encrypted and/or signed presence or messages to
> contacts whose keys I trust ultimately (trust level 5).  The
> documentation at http://gnupg.org/gph/en/manual.html#AEN346 appears out
> of date, as it does not mention level 5 (ultimate trust) at all.

Not sure what you're requirements are, but if you're looking for
reliable encrypted communication you might want to consider a
combination of pidgin and pidgin-OTR (http://www.cypherpunks.ca/otr/).
It works well, is pretty easy to set up, and has the added benefit of
being enabled by default in adium.


hth,

Doug

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Re: Problem with the agent, gpg2

2009-11-17 Thread John Clizbe
Mario Castelán Castro wrote:
> November 17th for gnupg-users@gnupg.org
> 
> I need GNU PG 2 because i want to get out of the 1024 bits limit and
> SHA forced for DSA, i want my next key (2010-2012) to be more secure
> and accept some SHA2.

GnuPG 2.0 is not needed for DSA > 1024  GnuPG 1.4.x has supported DSA2 for some
time, since 1.4.4 (2006-06-25). See "--enable-dsa2" in the manual for more
information.

> Charly Avital: Please note than Linux is a Kernel mixed commonly with
> the GNU Operating System, a correct name for that mix is GNU/Linux,
> but only "Linux" is not correct.

Ahh, the Naming Controversy Holy War[0].

Some of us oldsters were using "Linux" back when RMS & others were still trying
to get the Hurd kernel up, running and into active use[1].

The controversy even has it's own fairly good-sized Wikipedia page[2].

I like the closing remark on the Wikipedia page:

Many users and vendors who prefer the name "Linux" point to the inclusion
of non-GNU, non-kernel tools such as the Apache HTTP Server, the X Window
System or the K Desktop Environment in end-user operating systems based on
the Linux kernel. As stated by Jim Gettys, originator of X:

"There are lots of people on this bus; I don't hear a clamor of support
 that GNU is more essential than many of the other components; can't
 take a wheel away, and end up with a functional vehicle, or an engine,
 or the seats. I recommend you be happy we have a bus."

The distros I use most often are 'Slackware Linux' and 'Red Hat Enterprise
Linux', no 'Gnu' there and no amount of fervent pedantry is likely to get it
inserted.

You are free to call it GNU/Linux if you wish.  Likewise, others are free to
just call it "Slackware" or "Redhat" or "SuSE" so long as it's clear and
unambiguous.  No one is likely to get total agreement over "The One True Name™®"
of the operating system. See final paragraph of [3].

> In advance thanks by your understanding.

And yours ;-)

[0] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/holy-wars.html
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Hurd#Development_history
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU/Linux_naming_controversy
[3] http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/L/Linux.html
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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread Melikamp T. Medley
Thank you, Robert.

OK so I looked it up and I think what I want is called "deniable encryption".
I was just hoping that people here would recommend some FOSS tool to
deniably encrypt individual files. If there is no such tool, I am just going to
write one.

The rest of this message describes the kind of "deniable encryption"
that I want. The tool should meet these practical goals:

(0) FOSS license
(1) Can encrypt individual files
(3) Can add salt (like a passphrase)
(2) Deniable encryption:
Given a file A with random data and a ciphertext B (cleartext is unknown),
it should be impossible to guess which is which more than half the time.
(3) Deniability is robust:
Given a file A with random data and a ciphertext B (cleartext is *known*),
it should be infeasible to prove with certainty much above 0.5 that
B is the ciphertext. This implies that obtaining the passphrase is
impractical and actually feels like a much stronger property.

I know a bit about information theory, and it seems to me that there is
at least one elementary way to encrypt a file in a way that is "undetectable".

One can xor the cleartext by a large pad. Decrypting requires the
same pad: anything else will produce garbage. Almost every ciphertext
looks like random data. The downside is that (partially) knowing the
cleartext would allow to reconstruct the pad, and hence other
ciphertext constructed with the same pad would be compromised.

A more advanced way to achieve the same goal is to take a passphrase
and to use it to construct a ciphertext. The hardest part, as far as I
understand, is in showing that it is infeasible to reconstruct the
passphrase, even when one has cleartext-ciphertext pairs, and that is
where the math becomes very useful.

But enough of me rambling. Thank you all in advance :)

> There are a lot of qualifiers on the "no, not really."  A lot of Ph.D.
> theses have been written on this subject: it ties into some really deep
> areas of theoretical computer science.  If you want to learn more about
> the qualifiers, I'd suggest reading up on algorithmic randomness and
> Kolmogorov-Chaitin complexity.  It won't be easy reading, but speaking
> personally, I find this stuff fascinating.


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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread Robert J. Hansen
Melikamp T. Medley wrote:
> OK so I looked it up and I think what I want is called "deniable
> encryption".

What you've described here isn't deniable encryption, not as I know it
to be.  This shouldn't be too surprising, given there are tons of things
I don't know about.  :)

> (3) Can add salt (like a passphrase)

Salting is something that's done to hash functions.  Are you sure you
mean that you want to add salt to a cipher?

> (2) Deniable encryption: Given a file A with random data and a
> ciphertext B (cleartext is unknown), it should be impossible to guess
> which is which more than half the time.

This will be supported by effectively any modern cipher, especially for
small files.  If you can distinguish ciphertext from random noise,
that's usually considered to be a strong sign the cipher is weak.

(Note that I'm talking about modern symmetric ciphers.  Asymmetric
ciphers may very well be distinguishable.  I *think* they are, but I
can't summon up a reference now for the life of me -- take this as
unsubstantiated speculation.)

> (3) Deniability is robust: Given a file A with random data and a
> ciphertext B (cleartext is *known*), it should be infeasible to prove
> with certainty much above 0.5 that B is the ciphertext. This implies
> that obtaining the passphrase is impractical and actually feels like
> a much stronger property.

See above remarks: this is a fairly basic test for symmetric ciphers.

Note that I'm talking only about pure cipher algorithms.  Once you add
headers, magic numbers and so on -- all of which OpenPGP does, as will
many other crypto applications -- then both #s 2 and 3 fail.


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Re: Is it possible to decide what is a gpg file?

2009-11-17 Thread Mario Castelán Castro
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

November 17th 2009 for gnupg-users@gnupg.org

Hi, I suggest to search for steganography, the cience/art of hidding
messages.

I never used a program than do steganography but search for one, there
must be a lot of free (as in freedom) ones. LSB steganography is very
easy to implement.

Remeber than a lot of (Wath appears to be) random data is
incriminatory and you will be forced to say the cipher and key
used. Depending of the
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

iEYEARECAAYFAksDXe8ACgkQZ4DA0TLic4gBagCgh8QaOzqX5kpbJtNznIiFD6AL
mVwAmgLQprgxQaC/fYNWB7BlfM4tyt/L
=XjGI
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Problem with the agent, gpg2

2009-11-17 Thread Mario Castelán Castro
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

November 17th for gnupg-users@gnupg.org

Thanks by the --enable-dsa2 tip.

Someone can tellme wath line should i put on my gpg.cong?.

BTW I also want to remove sha1 from my key preferences. I understand
than the standard requires to support sha1 but i do not want to
that. Maybe soon the computing power becomes cheap enougth so sha1 is
in the range.

PD: I will not loose my time repeating why GNU/Linux should be called
"GNU/Linux", it is alredy explained very well in
http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html. Is pointless to discuss
with obstinate people who do not admit his mistrakes.
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Re: Problem with the agent, gpg2

2009-11-17 Thread markus reichelt
* Mario Castelán Castro  wrote:

> I need GNU PG 2 because i want to get out of the 1024 bits limit
> and SHA forced for DSA, i want my next key (2010-2012) to be more
> secure and accept some SHA2.

You don't need gpg2 for that.

-- 
left blank, right bald


pgpdWVrO5XZaK.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: Problem with the agent, gpg2

2009-11-17 Thread Robert J. Hansen
Mario Castelán Castro wrote:
> Thanks by the --enable-dsa2 tip.
> 
> Someone can tellme wath line should i put on my gpg.cong?.

enable-dsa2

> BTW I also want to remove sha1 from my key preferences.

Can't be done.  The OpenPGP standard requires that it be present.  Even
if you explicitly remove it, any OpenPGP-conformant application will
silently add it to the end of your preference list.



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digital signature primary key and encryption subkey

2009-11-17 Thread M.B.Jr.
Hi list,
one lame confusion I'm facing now.

I was reading GnuPG's "Signing Subkey Cross-Certification" page [1],
and as a matter of fact, these two simple doubts did arise.

Suppose one provides the command:

gpg --gen-key

and chooses the default "DSA and Elgamal" option.

1st doubt:
DSA will be the basis for the primary key and Elgamal, the basis for
the encryption subkey, is this assertion correct?

if so, 2nd doubt is:
both my public and private keys will be built upon my DSA primary key
and my Elgamal encryption subkey?


That's all. Regards,



Marcio Barbado, Jr.


[1] http://www.gnupg.org/faq/subkey-cross-certify.en.html

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Re: digital signature primary key and encryption subkey

2009-11-17 Thread David Shaw

On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:00 PM, M.B.Jr. wrote:


Hi list,
one lame confusion I'm facing now.

I was reading GnuPG's "Signing Subkey Cross-Certification" page [1],
and as a matter of fact, these two simple doubts did arise.

Suppose one provides the command:

gpg --gen-key

and chooses the default "DSA and Elgamal" option.


Note that the default is "RSA and RSA" now, but "DSA and Elgamal" are  
still available.



1st doubt:
DSA will be the basis for the primary key and Elgamal, the basis for
the encryption subkey, is this assertion correct?


Yes.


if so, 2nd doubt is:
both my public and private keys will be built upon my DSA primary key
and my Elgamal encryption subkey?


I'm afraid I don't really understand what you are asking.  Your  
primary key (DSA) has a public and private part, and uses the DSA  
algorithm.  Your subkey (Elgamal) has a public and private part, and  
uses the Elgamal algorithm.  Your subkey is signed by your primary key  
to indicate that they belong together.


David


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