Re: OpenPGP card: What RSA problems? Why not for key signing?

2006-04-06 Thread Werner Koch
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:22:35 +0200, Felix E Klee said:

> * What are those problems that one may encounter with RSA?

You can't load a non-1024 bit RSA key to the card. RSA keys are
optional in OpenPGP and thus some implementaions may not be abale to
use your key.

> * Why should the key on the card not be used for key signing?

Either becuase people feel that 1024 bit RSA/SHA-1 is not strong
enough or due to the diculties of creating a backup of that key.
Without a backup and a borken card you won't be able to properly use
your key anymore and all collected signatures are practically lost.

> * Is there any advantage in using a DSA master key (not supported by the
>   OpenPGP card, I know) instead of an RSA master key?

DSA signatures are much smaller.

> * What's the best tool for generating the 1024 bit RSA key?  Should I
>   simply use plain "gpg --gen-key --no-random-seed-file" or should the
>   key be generated on card, or does it not really matter?

gpg --gen-key

--no-random-seed-file is only useful if you don't have permission to
write it.


Shalom-Salam,

   Werner


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Re: OpenPGP card: What RSA problems? Why not for key signing?

2006-04-06 Thread Felix E. Klee
At Thu, 06 Apr 2006 11:24:25 +0200,
Werner Koch wrote:
> > * Why should the key on the card not be used for key signing?
> 
> Either becuase people feel that 1024 bit RSA/SHA-1 is not strong
> enough 

Yes, one reads this and that: Some say 1024 may become easily crackable
[1] in the upcoming years, some say that it won't.  OK, my data may not
be that interesting [2] but, still, I want to do it right, or more or
less so.  So, I'll probably simply create a 4096 bit RSA key with 10
years life time and store it on devices not accessible from the systems
I normally use.

So, I've one more question: How long should the passphrase reasonably
be, in case ...

... it is a phrase containing words from a dictionary (e.g. taken from a
book)?

... it is a phrase made up of easily memorizable/pronounceable but
non-real words, formatted like an ordinary phrase (i.e. one word, one
blank, etc.)?

... it is just a random string?

The goal is to make decrypting the pass phrase protected secret key
about as hard as factoring the public key.  Is this even remotely
possible?

> Without a backup and a borken card you won't be able to properly use
> your key anymore and all collected signatures are practically lost.

Well, I planned to have the key stored on two smartcards (one for
backup), anyway.

If not used for storage of the master key, the smartcards, of course,
are still nice for storing sub keys, and have them available all the
time.

[1] I.e. with not too expensive equipment and in a rather short time,
  say a couple of days.

[2] I plan to use the key in the context of financial transactions,
  though.

-- 
Felix E. Klee

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Re: 1.4.3 // proper syntax for --edit-key cross-certify ?

2006-04-06 Thread vedaal
>Message: 6
>Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 22:02:16 -0400
>From: David Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: 1.4.3 // proper syntax for --edit-key cross-certify ?

>PGP does not generate signing subkeys.  You generated a RSA 
>encryption
>key that happened to be without key flags (I guess that version of 

>PGP
>didn't use them yet), and so it appears as a RSA sign+encrypt key 
>in
>GnuPG.

well,
it is an 'atypical' pgp build ;-)

but the subkey is recognized by gnupg as a 'signing' subkey,
and moreover, is 'forced' by gnupg front ends to be used for 
signing
(there is no '!' indicator available to put as an option in 
gpg.conf)

here is an example of such a key:

-BEGIN PGP PRIVATE KEY BLOCK-
Comment: passphrase:  rsav4t
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=oO4q
-END PGP PRIVATE KEY BLOCK-
-BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-
Comment: rsa v4 key with rsa signing subkey (ckt build 9 )
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=3A9P
-END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-

>Bottom line is, this does not work on PGP generated keys.

a request then,

can cross-certify be made to work with such a key, (preferred)
or,
can an option of '!' be made available so that gnupg front ends 
recognize and sign with the primary subkey,
and avoid the whole issue


tia,

vedaal





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Re: 1.4.3 // proper syntax for --edit-key cross-certify ?

2006-04-06 Thread David Shaw
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 09:51:32AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Message: 6
> >Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 22:02:16 -0400
> >From: David Shaw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: 1.4.3 // proper syntax for --edit-key cross-certify ?
> 
> >PGP does not generate signing subkeys.  You generated a RSA 
> >encryption
> >key that happened to be without key flags (I guess that version of 
> 
> >PGP
> >didn't use them yet), and so it appears as a RSA sign+encrypt key 
> >in
> >GnuPG.
> 
> well,
> it is an 'atypical' pgp build ;-)
> 
> but the subkey is recognized by gnupg as a 'signing' subkey,
> and moreover, is 'forced' by gnupg front ends to be used for 
> signing
> (there is no '!' indicator available to put as an option in 
> gpg.conf)

PGP generated keys are not any different than GPG generated keys in
this regard.  Go ahead and use a ! if you like.

David

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re: 1.4.3 // proper syntax for --edit-key cross-certify ?

2006-04-06 Thread vedaal
David Shaw dshaw at jabberwocky.com wrote on
Thu Apr 6 17:03:44 CEST 2006 :

>PGP generated keys are not any different than GPG generated keys 
in
>this regard.  Go ahead and use a ! if you like.

yes,
but currently only from the command line

what i was asking for,
is a 'option' equivalent to '!'
to put into gpg.conf so that gnupg front ends will recognize and 
use only the primary key for signing, and not the subkey
(which is still used for encryption)

i.e. 
!-signing-key keyid

otherwise,
these are the user's choices:

[1] use only command line when signing
(ok, not so terrible,
but inconvenient/difficult for some people)

[2] use only pgp for signing
(what!? 
and lose all gnupg's features ?!? ;-)
[not really an option for this group ;-) ]

[3] delete/revoke the subkey and use the master for both signing 
and encrypting
[as a v3 user, i can live with this ;-)  ],
but it is not the preferred way to go in terms of security,
as the signing and encrypting keys really should be separate

[4] make a new key in gnupg
(and try to get it out to everybody who trusts only your old ones),
ok,
but far less convenient than [1] and [3]
while the key is still trustworthy


is it that difficult to put the '!' feature in  the options file ?

it would be much appreciated 


Thanks!

vedaal



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Re: 1.4.3 // proper syntax for --edit-key cross-certify ?

2006-04-06 Thread David Shaw
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 11:57:56AM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> David Shaw dshaw at jabberwocky.com wrote on
> Thu Apr 6 17:03:44 CEST 2006 :
> 
> >PGP generated keys are not any different than GPG generated keys 
> in
> >this regard.  Go ahead and use a ! if you like.
> 
> yes,
> but currently only from the command line
> 
> what i was asking for,
> is a 'option' equivalent to '!'
> to put into gpg.conf so that gnupg front ends will recognize and 
> use only the primary key for signing, and not the subkey
> (which is still used for encryption)
> 
> i.e. 
> !-signing-key keyid

default-key !keyid

David

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re: 1.4.3 // proper syntax for --edit-key cross-certify ?

2006-04-06 Thread vedaal
David Shaw dshaw at jabberwocky.com wrote on
Thu Apr 6 18:09:20 CEST 2006:

> default-key !keyid

doesn't work, ;-((
(does it need any additional input? ) 


here is the command line output (using cygwin):

first,
with the existing option of

default-key 0x5AA20C866A589A97

$ gpg --clearsign c:/r/1234.txt
gpg: using subkey 04ADEE20 instead of primary key 6A589A97

You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
user: "vedaal nistar (preferred e-mail address) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
gpg: using subkey 04ADEE20 instead of primary key 6A589A97
4096-bit RSA key, ID 04ADEE20, created 2001-04-26 (main key ID 
6A589A97)

Enter passphrase:


now with the option of
default-key !0x5AA20C866A589A97

$ gpg --clearsign c:/r/1234.txt
gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available
gpg: c:/r/1234.txt: clearsign failed: secret key not available


putting the ! in front of the keyid 
caused an inability to identify the key,
rather than parsing the '!' 
as an option for the default keyid of 0x5AA20C866A589A97

what did you to to get it to work on your system?
(i didn't try it with the short [8 character keyid] in gpg.conf )

vedaal






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re: 1.4.3 // proper syntax for --edit-key cross-certify ? // success ; -)

2006-04-06 Thread vedaal



>> default-key !keyid

>doesn't work, ;-((


but what *does* work, is:

default-key keyid!


here is the gpg output with the option of 
default-key 0x5AA20C866A589A97!

$ gpg --clearsign c:/r/1234.txt

You need a passphrase to unlock the secret key for
user: "vedaal nistar (preferred e-mail address) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"
4096-bit RSA key, ID 6A589A97, created 2001-04-26

gpg: writing to `c:/r/1234.txt.asc'
gpg: RSA/SHA256 signature from: "6A589A97 vedaal nistar (preferred 
e-mail address) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"


Thanks!
(and maybe add it to the man.page)

vedaal



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Date and time format

2006-04-06 Thread lusfert
Hi.

Is it possible to change date format in GPG output?

When I see

D:\>gpg --verify gnupg-w32cli-1.4.3.exe.sig
gpg: Signature made 04/03/06 14:42:33
gpg:using RSA key 0x1CE0C630
gpg: Good signature from "Werner Koch (dist sig) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

I don't understand what date does GPG mean:

— 4 March 2006?
— 3 April 2006?
— 6 March 2004?


When you see date 04/03/06 it's hard to guess what date format is used:
dd/mm/yy, mm/dd/yy, yy/mm/dd or even yy/dd/mm. By default I think it's 4
March 2006 because date format dd.mm.yy (dd.mm.) is used in my country.

Also GPG displays time (14:42:33) in such way when it's hard to guess is
it local or UTC.


Maybe it'll be better to see something like this:

D:\>gpg --verify gnupg-w32cli-1.4.3.exe.sig
gpg: Signature made 4-Apr-2006 14:42:33 (local - Russian Daylight Time)
gpg:using RSA key 0x1CE0C630
gpg: Good signature from "Werner Koch (dist sig) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

or

D:\>gpg --verify gnupg-w32cli-1.4.3.exe.sig
gpg: Signature made 04-Apr-2006 10:42:33 UTC
gpg:using RSA key 0x1CE0C630
gpg: Good signature from "Werner Koch (dist sig) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

or (maybe the best way)

D:\>gpg --verify gnupg-w32cli-1.4.3.exe.sig
gpg: Signature made 04 April 2006 14:42:33 (local - Russian Daylight Time)
gpg:using RSA key 0x1CE0C630
gpg: Good signature from "Werner Koch (dist sig) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>"

Suggestions are welcome.


P.S.
When I see output of PGPdump ( http://www.pgpdump.net/ ) it's much more
easier to understand what date and time are shown and what time zone is
used.

-- 
Regards
OpenPGP Key ID: 0x9E353B56500B8987
Encrypted e-mail preferred.







signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: Date and time format

2006-04-06 Thread David Shaw
On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 01:31:40AM +0400, lusfert wrote:
> Hi.
> 
> Is it possible to change date format in GPG output?

GPG uses whatever the OS specifies as the date format.  It is not
something that is changeable by GPG - you need to set the date format
in your OS.

David

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Re: Date and time format

2006-04-06 Thread lusfert
David Shaw wrote on 07.04.2006 1:43:
> On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 01:31:40AM +0400, lusfert wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>> Is it possible to change date format in GPG output?
> 
> GPG uses whatever the OS specifies as the date format.  It is not
> something that is changeable by GPG - you need to set the date format
> in your OS.
> 

In my OS (Windows XP Pro SP2 + all updates) date format is set as
dd.mm. :
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a142/someuser00/winxp_date_format.png
(12 KB)

Translation*:
апреля = April
пятница = Friday

*Note that I use Russian language for date, time and other formats, but
English version of Windows XP.

However, GPG uses mm/dd/yy format...

P.S.
As you see can at the top of this message, my Thunderbird uses right
date format (specified by OS):
07.04.2006 - dd.mm.

-- 
Regards
OpenPGP Key ID: 0x9E353B56500B8987
Encrypted e-mail preferred.




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Re: Date and time format

2006-04-06 Thread David Shaw
On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 02:01:57AM +0400, lusfert wrote:
> David Shaw wrote on 07.04.2006 1:43:
> > On Fri, Apr 07, 2006 at 01:31:40AM +0400, lusfert wrote:
> >> Hi.
> >>
> >> Is it possible to change date format in GPG output?
> > 
> > GPG uses whatever the OS specifies as the date format.  It is not
> > something that is changeable by GPG - you need to set the date format
> > in your OS.
> > 
> 
> In my OS (Windows XP Pro SP2 + all updates) date format is set as
> dd.mm. :
> http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a142/someuser00/winxp_date_format.png
> (12 KB)

OS setting via LC_TIME, according to Microsoft, though I have no idea
how to set it on win32.

David

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Re: Date and time format

2006-04-06 Thread John W. Moore III
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

David Shaw wrote:

> OS setting via LC_TIME, according to Microsoft, though I have no idea
> how to set it on win32.

Right Click on the Clock, Select Setting Time/Date.

JOHN ;)
Timestamp: Thursday 06 Apr 2006, 18:36  --400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.4-4094cvs: (MingW32)
Comment: Public Key at:  http://tinyurl.com/8cpho
Comment: Gossamer Spider Web of Trust (US26): http://www.gswot.org
Comment: Homepage:  http://tinyurl.com/9ubue
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJENZgRAAoJEBCGy9eAtCsPdQkH/1mu1LcrO8ed2ICdjqklBFrt
QHRXrNk8LqdH/m3VqpxQ/EQ5ZQwhEz7zVOhPS0p3QEDr4/6QSHn4x42nEkYt9Luv
UL0Lmop2apr0DXMxuRrHbWNMzp/LL1IEaQ979QP/aAk/B05I0E4rpTIEDZBjeEwY
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Automated processes

2006-04-06 Thread jkaye
Hi all,

I'm new to GnuPG, and have been getting some help
from a kind soul.  I seem to have all the knowledge 
that I need with one single, but important, exception.

When I decrypt, it asks for my passphrase.  No problem
there except for the fact that I want to have an automated
script on a unix server perform the decryption of this file.
Of course, if it needs a passphrase, it's going to hang
and I can't have that.

I know that for PGP, there's an environment setting that
can be used to prevent this.  Is there a similar thing for
GnuPG, or do I have to jump through some hoops?  

Thanks,

 - Jack 



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Re: Automated processes

2006-04-06 Thread John W. Moore III
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

jkaye wrote:

> I know that for PGP, there's an environment setting that
> can be used to prevent this.  Is there a similar thing for
> GnuPG, or do I have to jump through some hoops?  

Hmm.Let me see if I've understood you.  You desire to use GPG for
security 'Point to Point' then swap security for convenience on your end?

My suggestion would be to either switch to Thunderbird w/Enigmail as
your MUA.  You can set Enigmail to 'remember' your passphrase for a
specified length of time or until you Close the program.

JOHN ;)
Timestamp: Thursday 06 Apr 2006, 19:42  --400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.4-4094cvs: (MingW32)
Comment: Public Key at:  http://tinyurl.com/8cpho
Comment: Gossamer Spider Web of Trust (US26): http://www.gswot.org
Comment: Homepage:  http://tinyurl.com/9ubue
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

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Re: Date and time format

2006-04-06 Thread Mica Mijatovic
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

Was Fri, 07 Apr 2006, at 01:31:40 +0400,
when lusfert wrote:

> Is it possible to change date format in GPG output?

I tried this to figure out many times but couldn't.

I also expected that GPG will take over the local User's setting of the
OS, as most programs do, but not, it doesn't. I don't know reasons.

It would be very good and practical addition/correction making easier
lots of administrative work.

A time given in a logical format "-mm-dd hh:mm:ss [TZone]" (with the
TZ expressed just numerically, as "[+0500]" and similar) would be
perfect.[1]



__

[1] The Time Zone expressed by abbreviations are a puzzle for many non
American people, but for some Americans as well.

- --
Mica
PGP keys nestled at: http://blueness.port5.com/pgpkeys/
~~~ For personal mail please use my address as it is *exactly* given
 in my "From|Reply To" field(s). ~~~
Respect thine opponent, else shall the earth rise up and smite thee on
the back.
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