Re: [GNC] Crash While Editing Transactions

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Now having had this happen again, I can confirm that the crash occurs 
when deleting a Lot-generated gains transaction.


On 12/2/2022 10:30 AM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:

Hello,

Summary: Using GnuCash 4.11 under Windows 10, I was deleting erroneous 
Gains transactions in a Mutual Fund account when GnuCash crashed out.


Details: I was entering sales of mutual fund shares and using the Lots 
feature to calculate gains for the sales. This generally works well 
for me, but can get messy for holdings with many small lots. This was 
the case for the fund I was working on at the time of the crash. I had 
entered the aggregated sale, and the Lots feature broke the sale into 
multiple smaller splits, each with its own gain transaction, based on 
the underlying lots. This is as it is designed (but can be extremely 
confusing, BTW). In this case, the numbers generated by GnuCash didn't 
match the financial institution statement, so I was removing the added 
sales splits and gains transactions from the register when the crash 
occurred. To expand on this: I had opened the sale entry, which had 
received extra splits for each lot involved, deleted the extra splits 
and adjusted the primary split to reflect the overall number of shares 
sold, and was in process of deleting the extra gains transactions when 
GnuCash simply disappeared.


I suspect that when I attempted to delete the lot-generated gains 
transactions, some Lot-based housekeeping caused the program to fail.


I am attaching the trace file here for reference.

Best,

David T.

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Re: [GNC] Crash While Editing Transactions

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Since I've replicated the problem, I have submitted this as a bug:

https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798675

On 12/2/2022 11:18 AM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
Now having had this happen again, I can confirm that the crash occurs 
when deleting a Lot-generated gains transaction.


On 12/2/2022 10:30 AM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:

Hello,

Summary: Using GnuCash 4.11 under Windows 10, I was deleting 
erroneous Gains transactions in a Mutual Fund account when GnuCash 
crashed out.


Details: I was entering sales of mutual fund shares and using the 
Lots feature to calculate gains for the sales. This generally works 
well for me, but can get messy for holdings with many small lots. 
This was the case for the fund I was working on at the time of the 
crash. I had entered the aggregated sale, and the Lots feature broke 
the sale into multiple smaller splits, each with its own gain 
transaction, based on the underlying lots. This is as it is designed 
(but can be extremely confusing, BTW). In this case, the numbers 
generated by GnuCash didn't match the financial institution 
statement, so I was removing the added sales splits and gains 
transactions from the register when the crash occurred. To expand on 
this: I had opened the sale entry, which had received extra splits 
for each lot involved, deleted the extra splits and adjusted the 
primary split to reflect the overall number of shares sold, and was 
in process of deleting the extra gains transactions when GnuCash 
simply disappeared.


I suspect that when I attempted to delete the lot-generated gains 
transactions, some Lot-based housekeeping caused the program to fail.


I am attaching the trace file here for reference.

Best,

David T.

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[GNC] gnucash in tandem with SuiteCRM or other CRMs

[slidinghorn via gnucash-user]

Hello,

I tried to join the IRC via the matrix bridge, but there's no way to speak in 
the room if you aren't registered on the server, and you can't register without 
an IRC client...

Anyway, this isn't really a support request as much as it is a request for 
anyone who uses gnucash in tandem with a CRM (Customer Relationship Management) 
application - most specifically SuiteCRM. I wanted to know if anyone does this 
successfully, how they manage the workflow in terms of keeping customer 
contacts/accounts up to date, if they have to manually enter everything in both 
places, etc.

I'm looking into starting my own small business, and while I think it's almost 
certain to remain small enough that entering that kind of information twice 
won't be *too* much of a hassle, it would definitely be nice if someone's 
figured out a way to not have to duplicate that work.

Thanks in advance for any stories or input you can provide!

P.S. If/when I get a reply, I assume I should "Reply All", correct? It's been 
years since I've used a mailing list, and I'm rusty on the practice, lol


Sent with Proton Mail secure email.
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[GNC] Lot Calculator Off?

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Hello,

GnuCash 4.11 on Windows 10

As the end of the year approaches, I am working to get all my accounts 
up to date, and I've stumbled across an apparent error in capital gains 
calculations in the Lot manager. I am attaching a screenshot of the 
problem I am seeing. If you add up the sales prices and the gains, they 
are off from the original purchase price by $4.20. The second sales loss 
has seemingly failed to account for the first calculation for some 
reason, and the resulting amounts differ from the financial institution 
by the same $4.20.


Since I used the lot manager to handle all of the gains calculations, 
I'm at a loss for determining why or how I've achieved this erroneous 
result. Not sure if the table below will display correctly, but the 
numbers are there for reference.


Best,

David T.

Amount  Gain(Loss)  Sale with Gain/Loss 
Purchase cost   $ 230.96
Sale 1  $ 140.15$(4.20) $ 144.35
Sale 2  $78.44  $(12.37)$90.81  
$ 235.16Total
$(4.20) Difference
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[GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[Dr. David Kirkby]

Hi,
When a company is set up in the UK, if by just one person, they get a share
which has a nominal value of £1.

I'm trying to put my accounts starting this financial year into GnuCash. I
was not sure where this £1 should go - if anywhere. So I asked my
accountant. See below my question in bold, and his answer in red.

* "4) Where should the initial nominal £1 share when the company is set up
be recorded?  Should that show as £1 equity in the company as an opening
balance, or is it ignored in accounts submitted after the first submission?
*

*The opening £1 share is shown and brought forward share capital in the
accounts under the ‘capital and reserves’ section."*

I assumed this meant I added £1 to the Equity, so I created an account

Equity -> Capital and Reserves -> Share Capital

with the intention of adding the £1 share there as an opening balance. But
it is not possible to edit the opening balance of that account.

I assume it's me, as the director, that owns that £1 share. I guess, since
it's only a very small amount, I can ignore it, but it would be nice to
know where it should go.

Any thoughts on where this should go?

Dr David Kirkby Ph.D
Email: drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk Web:
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Kirkby Microwave Ltd (Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100)
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT.
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Re: [GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[Michael or Penny Novack]

I'm not at all sure what you are asking us (will have to guess)

You asked your accountant and got the answer from him or her. So that's 
where it goes. Essentially you are telling us that by convention, books 
of a business entity in the UK start with an equity balance of 1, not 
zero. The latter is normal for double entry bookkeeping.


So my GUESS is you are asking us, what should be the other side of the 
transaction that enters this amount? << again, this is not really a 
gnucash question since would be the same question no matter how the 
books were kept >>


Personally, I'd probably use Imbalance as the most logical. After all, 
you are in effect telling us that by convention, books for a business 
entity in the UK start out out of balance by 1.


Michael D Novack



On 12/2/2022 8:46 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:

Hi,
When a company is set up in the UK, if by just one person, they get a share
which has a nominal value of £1.

I'm trying to put my accounts starting this financial year into GnuCash. I
was not sure where this £1 should go - if anywhere. So I asked my
accountant. See below my question in bold, and his answer in red.

* "4) Where should the initial nominal £1 share when the company is set up
be recorded?  Should that show as £1 equity in the company as an opening
balance, or is it ignored in accounts submitted after the first submission?
*

*The opening £1 share is shown and brought forward share capital in the
accounts under the ‘capital and reserves’ section."*

I assumed this meant I added £1 to the Equity, so I created an account

Equity -> Capital and Reserves -> Share Capital

with the intention of adding the £1 share there as an opening balance. But
it is not possible to edit the opening balance of that account.

I assume it's me, as the director, that owns that £1 share. I guess, since
it's only a very small amount, I can ignore it, but it would be nice to
know where it should go.

Any thoughts on where this should go?

Dr David Kirkby Ph.D
Email: drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk Web:
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Kirkby Microwave Ltd (Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100)
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT.
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--
There is no possibility of social justice on a dead planet except the equality 
of the grave.

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Re: [GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[Maf. King]

On Friday, 2 December 2022 13:46:38 GMT Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
> with the intention of adding the £1 share there as an opening balance. But
> it is not possible to edit the opening balance of that account.
> 
> I assume it's me, as the director, that owns that £1 share. I guess, since
> it's only a very small amount, I can ignore it, but it would be nice to
> know where it should go.

You can't alter the "opening balance" in GC per se, but you can put an opening 
transaction in.

My ltd company's books show a transfer for the share capital (£10 in my case, 
for 10 shares issued and *actually* paid)

debit Bank Account and Credit Equity:SharesI imagine you could have an  
Assets:UnpaidShareCapital account to hold the nominal £1, if you have not 
actually paid it to the company's account.

and just a very small technical point, You own the share as a shareholder, not 
as a director.  legally they are 2 very distinct "hats to wear"...

IANAA and so on.
Maf.




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Re: [GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[Stan Brown]

On 2022-12-02 07:21, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:

> So my GUESS is you are asking us, what should be the other side of the
> transaction that enters this amount? << again, this is not really a
> gnucash question since would be the same question no matter how the
> books were kept >>
> 
> Personally, I'd probably use Imbalance as the most logical. After all,
> you are in effect telling us that by convention, books for a business
> entity in the UK start out out of balance by 1.

With respect, I think that's a dangerous suggestion.

Imbalance does not normally appear anywhere, or if it does it appears
with a balance of zero. When it appears with a nonzero balance, that is
very useful because it points out that there was an unbalanced
transaction someplace, which you need to find and fix. That's a very
useful indicator, not to be given up lightly.

It's the same principle as writing code -- if your code compiles with
any error messages at all, you don't say "oh, this one doesn't matter,"
even if that's true. You eliminate whatever the compiler didn't like.
Otherwise a time will come when that message _does_ matter, in the same
situation or a different one, and you'll have a bug in your program.

Much better, in my opinion, is to create a balanced transaction. If the
pound is actually paid in, the transaction would be a debit to Cash or
Bank and a credit to Share Capital. If the pound is completely
fictitious, the debit would be to an Expense account (which could also
be used for other expenses of setting up the business) and credit to
Share Capital.

(And I am astonished that Kirkby's accountant would suggest having
unbalanced books. As far as I know, double-entry bookkeeping is standard
accounting practice in the UK as well. Perhaps the accountant just
assumed that Kirkby knew that and would select the appropriate account
for the debit side of the transaction, or perhaps the accountant did
suggest an appropriate debit account but Kirkby didn't tell us about it.)

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com>
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Re: [GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[Dr. David Kirkby]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 at 17:52, Stan Brown  wrote:

>
> On 2022-12-02 07:21, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
>
> > So my GUESS is you are asking us, what should be the other side of the
> > transaction that enters this amount? << again, this is not really a
> > gnucash question since would be the same question no matter how the
> > books were kept >>
> >
> > Personally, I'd probably use Imbalance as the most logical. After all,
> > you are in effect telling us that by convention, books for a business
> > entity in the UK start out out of balance by 1.
>
> With respect, I think that's a dangerous suggestion.
>

I think that the safest thing is for me to actually ignore this £1. After
all, I pay an accountant to submit the appropriate paperwork to HMRC and
Companies House.
He should be able to take care of that. There’s only one singe share, and
it’s value is small.

I do not think that if my company was inspected, any inspector would be
quizzing me about a £1 share.  They would know it is standard practice to
start a small company with a single £1 share.

Dave
-- 
Dr. David Kirkby,
Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100

Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
Registered office:
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT, United
Kingdom
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Re: [GNC] Lot Calculator Off?

[john]

> On Dec 2, 2022, at 1:06 AM, David T. via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> GnuCash 4.11 on Windows 10
> 
> As the end of the year approaches, I am working to get all my accounts up to 
> date, and I've stumbled across an apparent error in capital gains 
> calculations in the Lot manager. I am attaching a screenshot of the problem I 
> am seeing. If you add up the sales prices and the gains, they are off from 
> the original purchase price by $4.20. The second sales loss has seemingly 
> failed to account for the first calculation for some reason, and the 
> resulting amounts differ from the financial institution by the same $4.20.
> 
> Since I used the lot manager to handle all of the gains calculations, I'm at 
> a loss for determining why or how I've achieved this erroneous result. Not 
> sure if the table below will display correctly, but the numbers are there for 
> reference.
> 
> Best,
> 
> David T.
> 
>   Amount  Gain(Loss)  Sale with Gain/Loss 
> Purchase cost $ 230.96
> Sale 1$ 140.15$(4.20) $ 144.35
> Sale 2$78.44  $(12.37)$90.81  
>   $ 235.16Total
>   $(4.20) Difference

Combining the info in the image with your table, I think you have three 
transactions:

Shares  Price   
Debit   Credit
Purchase:   8  
28.87230.96
Sale 1  5   28.03   
140.15
Sale 2  3   26.1467 
  78.44

The loss on the first is 5 * 0.84 = 4.20 and on the second 3 * 2.7333 = 8.17.  
12.37 - 8.17 = 4.20.
12.37 / 3 = 4.1233, implying a sale price of 24.7467 and so proceeds of $74.24.

Check your statement or sale ticket for the second sale to see which number you 
entered wrong.

Regards,
John Ralls


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Re: [GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[john]

That accountant you pay can also tell you how to set up your books for the new 
company. You'll get much better advice from them than from this list: They're 
licensed to practice accounting in the UK, unlike anyone here.

That said the £1 per share is called par value and is the lowest amount the 
company might sell the shares for. It's usually much less than the actual price 
the company gets for the shares and that's what you enter in the company's 
books. See e.g. 
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/account-issuance-par-value-shares-57788.html.

Regards,
John Ralls


> On Dec 2, 2022, at 10:28 AM, Dr. David Kirkby 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 at 17:52, Stan Brown  > wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 2022-12-02 07:21, Michael or Penny Novack wrote:
>> 
>>> So my GUESS is you are asking us, what should be the other side of the
>>> transaction that enters this amount? << again, this is not really a
>>> gnucash question since would be the same question no matter how the
>>> books were kept >>
>>> 
>>> Personally, I'd probably use Imbalance as the most logical. After all,
>>> you are in effect telling us that by convention, books for a business
>>> entity in the UK start out out of balance by 1.
>> 
>> With respect, I think that's a dangerous suggestion.
>> 
> 
> I think that the safest thing is for me to actually ignore this £1. After
> all, I pay an accountant to submit the appropriate paperwork to HMRC and
> Companies House.
> He should be able to take care of that. There’s only one singe share, and
> it’s value is small.
> 
> I do not think that if my company was inspected, any inspector would be
> quizzing me about a £1 share.  They would know it is standard practice to
> start a small company with a single £1 share.
> 
> Dave
> -- 
> Dr. David Kirkby,
> Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
> drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk 
> https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
> Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100
> 
> Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
> Registered office:
> Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT, United
> Kingdom
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Re: [GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[Michael or Penny Novack]

On 12/2/2022 1:49 PM, john wrote:

That accountant you pay can also tell you how to set up your books for the new 
company. You'll get much better advice from them than from this list: They're 
licensed to practice accounting in the UK, unlike anyone here.

That said the £1 per share is called par value and is the lowest amount the 
company might sell the shares for. It's usually much less than the actual price 
the company gets for the shares and that's what you enter in the company's 
books. See e.g. 
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/account-issuance-par-value-shares-57788.html.

Regards,
John Ralls

I suspect, what the accountant is telling you, is that even a sole 
proprietor (no stock) company in the UK has this minimum..


You know you COULD just take a quid out of your wallet, deposit it in 
the business bank account, and enter the transaction that way (debit the 
bank account and credit this capital account). It is possible your 
accountant neglected to tell you this obvious solution. In other words, 
you "bought" your (own) company for that minimum. Like here the usual 
minimum for a contract would be one dollar.


Michael D Novack


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Re: [GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[Dr. David Kirkby]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 at 18:49, john  wrote:

> That accountant you pay can also tell you how to set up your books for the
> new company. You'll get much better advice from them than from this list:
> They're licensed to practice accounting in the UK, unlike anyone here.
>
> That said the £1 per share is called par value and is the lowest amount
> the company might sell the shares for. It's usually much less than the
> actual price the company gets for the shares and that's what you enter in
> the company's books. See e.g.
> https://smallbusiness.chron.com/account-issuance-par-value-shares-57788.html
> .
>
> Regards,
> John Ralls
>

It's not a new company, but in previous years I have submitted things on
spreadsheets. He has acce[ted spreadsheets in the past - he sent me one
with different tabs for what he needed. He has also suggested commercial
software - one of which was Kashflow. Now he has stopped using that as the
prices have risen, and he is not finding it so good. So I'm glad I did not
go down that route.

He does not seem too fussed about how things are recorded, as long as he
can work out what's happened.
I have just sent him some screenshots from GnuCash, and asked if they are
okay before I start putting this year's transactions in.

Dave
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Re: [GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[David Cousens]

David,

When I set up a private company in Australia many years ago, my accountant at
the time charged me for the nominal $2 of share capital so I debited my personal
bank balance  by $2 and credited an asset account recording my contributions to
the company which also included other setup costs (accounting , registration,
various fees etc etc) paid initially out of my personal accounts before the
business bank account was established.  

In the company's books I recorded my contributions to the company as a debit of
$2 +setup costs to the company's bank account and credited Equity->Owner's
Contributions by that amount I then did a transfer of $2 from Equity Owners
Contibutions to Equity -> Capital and Reserves -> Share Capital. The balance of
the setup costs were then recorded as expenses incurred by the company (credit
to company bank account- debit to relevant expense account). My accountant at
the time was happy with this. I was however not happy with other aspects of his
work so I ended up doing a Master's in Accounting. 

The point of recording the nominal share capital is, should you at some future
time turn the company into a partnership (or even public company), that nominal
share capital is then split with the incoming partner and its value can be used
to determine the partners share of the equity i.e future profits. (IPO's are of
course a lot more complicated).

The above of course is not accounting advice as jurisdictional business
legislation and accounting practice may affect the treatment and a local
accountant should be consulted for professional advice.

David Cousens

On Fri, 2022-12-02 at 13:46 +, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
> Hi,
> When a company is set up in the UK, if by just one person, they get a share
> which has a nominal value of £1.
> 
> I'm trying to put my accounts starting this financial year into GnuCash. I
> was not sure where this £1 should go - if anywhere. So I asked my
> accountant. See below my question in bold, and his answer in red.
> 
> * "4) Where should the initial nominal £1 share when the company is set up
> be recorded?  Should that show as £1 equity in the company as an opening
> balance, or is it ignored in accounts submitted after the first submission?
> *
> 
> *The opening £1 share is shown and brought forward share capital in the
> accounts under the ‘capital and reserves’ section."*
> 
> I assumed this meant I added £1 to the Equity, so I created an account
> 
> Equity -> Capital and Reserves -> Share Capital
> 
> with the intention of adding the £1 share there as an opening balance. But
> it is not possible to edit the opening balance of that account.
> 
> I assume it's me, as the director, that owns that £1 share. I guess, since
> it's only a very small amount, I can ignore it, but it would be nice to
> know where it should go.
> 
> Any thoughts on where this should go?
> 
> Dr David Kirkby Ph.D
> Email: drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk Web:
> https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
> Kirkby Microwave Ltd (Tel 01621-680100 / +44 1621-680100)
> Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT.
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Re: [GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[Adrien Monteleone]

Correct,

There's nothing special about the 'opening balance', it is just a 
regular transaction that you can enter when you set up the account/book.


You can always edit or add more transactions just like any other account 
later.


Regards,
Adrien

On 12/2/22 10:42 AM, Maf. King wrote:

On Friday, 2 December 2022 13:46:38 GMT Dr. David Kirkby wrote:

with the intention of adding the £1 share there as an opening balance. But
it is not possible to edit the opening balance of that account.

I assume it's me, as the director, that owns that £1 share. I guess, since
it's only a very small amount, I can ignore it, but it would be nice to
know where it should go.


You can't alter the "opening balance" in GC per se, but you can put an opening
transaction in.

My ltd company's books show a transfer for the share capital (£10 in my case,
for 10 shares issued and *actually* paid)

debit Bank Account and Credit Equity:SharesI imagine you could have an
Assets:UnpaidShareCapital account to hold the nominal £1, if you have not
actually paid it to the company's account.

and just a very small technical point, You own the share as a shareholder, not
as a director.  legally they are 2 very distinct "hats to wear"...

IANAA and so on.


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Re: [GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[Dr. David Kirkby]

On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 at 20:56, David Cousens  wrote:

> David,
>
> When I set up a private company in Australia many years ago, my accountant
> at
> the time charged me for the nominal $2 of share capital so I debited my
> personal
> bank balance  by $2 and credited an asset account recording my
> contributions to
> the company which also included other setup costs (accounting ,
> registration,
> various fees etc etc) paid initially out of my personal accounts before the
> business bank account was established.


I might be wrong, but I don’t think we can claim the registration cost
back, but that’s a very modest fee. I believe it costs £13 at Companies
House, but there are companies that offer a service of forming companies
charging even less. For example, this one at £12.48

https://www.yourcompanyformations.co.uk/

I assume that they get a discounted rate from Companies House.



> The point of recording the nominal share capital is, should you at some
> future
> time turn the company into a partnership (or even public company), that
> nominal
> share capital is then split with the incoming partner and its value can be
> used
> to determine the partners share of the equity i.e future profits. (IPO's
> are of
> course a lot more complicated).


It is recorded at Companies House, but not currently in the GnuCash account
I created.

In the highly unlikely event that I form a partnership, I will just leave
it to the accountant.

>

> The above of course is not accounting advice as jurisdictional business
> legislation and accounting practice may affect the treatment and a local
> accountant should be consulted for professional advice.


As you see, I did ask him, but didn’t get a totally satisfactory answer.


> David Cousens
>

Dave
-- 
Dr. David Kirkby,
Kirkby Microwave Ltd,
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk
https://www.kirkbymicrowave.co.uk/
Telephone 01621-680100./ +44 1621 680100

Registered in England & Wales, company number 08914892.
Registered office:
Stokes Hall Lodge, Burnham Rd, Althorne, Chelmsford, Essex, CM3 6DT, United
Kingdom
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[GNC] Can I add to Equity?

[flywire]

It is my understanding certain legal documents need an amount to be
effected but normally it is not actually paid, so there would be no £1 in
the books. It probably becomes an unpaid invoice or loan but that's
lawyer/accountant detail.
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