Re: [GNC] Revising an old Gnucash file

[David Carlson]

The Placeholder feature prevents adding transactions to an account, but
IIRC it does not prevent existing transactions from being removed.  This
could help for some types of 'refactoring'.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 1:41 AM David T. via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> If you set an account to Hidden, it will be... hidden in the chart of
> accounts.
>
> Assuming that your messed up account is a catch-all account from which you
> hope to move transactions, I'd actually keep that account visible, and
> change the messed up transactions to reflect my current intention-- for
> example, changing the destination accounts to follow my new plan. As you
> change a transaction to use, say, Expenses:Auto instead of
> Expenses:Catch-all, the transactions will "disappear" from the Catch-all
> account (not really; they actually just get moved to the proper register).
> You'll know you're finished when the register is empty.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> David T.
>
> On July 20, 2022 1:18:26 AM GMT+03:00, Tom Browder 
> wrote:
> >On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 16:57  wrote:
> >
> >> Tom,
> >>
> >> You can make accounts hidden. Edit the account in the Account tab and
> >> select the
> >> hidden button in the dialogue. You can always then use the right click
> in
> >> the
> >> Accounts tab, select Find Account and unhide them in future. If you
> delete
> >> an
> >> account you can choose another account for any splits to the deleted
> >> account to
> >> be redirected to.
> >
> >
> >That  sounds like the way to go! I saw in the docs one can hide an
> account,
> >but I could not find in the docs what the effect of a “hidden” file is.
> >
> >Thanks, David!
> >
> >-Tom
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-- 
David Carlson
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[GNC] Memory demands and system performance of Gnucash (Was Re: GC4.10 on Win10 Crashing)

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Geoff, 

Taking up the issue of Gnucash system demands and performance...

I'll assume that your data file is not compressed. 

My data file is compressed and just over 5Mb on disk. On startup, Gnucash uses 
about 125Mb of memory. I haven't time startup or saving; startup is noticeable, 
but not problematic for me. Saving can take a couple of seconds. Also not a big 
deal (unless you're planning on doing it after every transaction edit).

What I alluded to earlier, however, is that on my machine there is a 
significant lag when I Alt-tab from another application back to gnucash. For 
example, from a pdf reader (with my account statement loaded) back to gnucash. 
By "significant lag" I mean 45 seconds (I timed THAT one!).

I have no idea why that would be, but I'm assuming that it's something to do 
with my specific computer. I just have no clue what to look for. Task manager 
doesn't show anything particularly egregious, although one cloud storage app 
seems to consume a lot of cycles continuously. (It's not Dropbox or Google) 
I've got a support query in on that. I do seem to have several different 
threads for various cloud services (including Dropbox and Google) and I wonder 
whether all that querying and checking affects performance...

David T.

P.S. it's fine to hijack a thread, if you rename the thread. Just saying. 

On July 20, 2022 3:34:43 AM GMT+03:00, Geoff  wrote:
>[Apologies to David T for diverting this thread.]
>
>FYI my main data file is 36MB on disc (XML format) and GnuCash has 85MB of RAM 
>allocated when I open it.  It typically takes about 15 seconds to start up and 
>open, and about 3 seconds to save to disc (SATA SSD).
>
>Windows 10, 8GB RAM, Intel i7-3770 CPU, 10+ years old hardware.
>
>GnuCash 4.8, not crashing.
>
>Geoff
>=
>
>On 20/07/2022 6:27 am, David Carlson wrote:
>> My data file is so big that it seems to tie up 1.5 gigs of Ram or more when
>> open, so most of my computers cannot run a web browser simultaneously with
>> GnuCash without using swap space and grinding down to a crawl.  Even on my
>> highest performance machines it takes several seconds to save but I usually
>> do it before starting any activity that will take more than a few minutes.
>> 
>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 1:43 PM David T. via gnucash-user <
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Adrien,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the suggestions.
>>> 
>>> It would seem to me that Finish/Ctrl-S is pretty reduced.
>>> 
>>> I currently have about 12 tabs open. 10 registers, the CoA, and one report
>>> (granted, it's a multicolumn report).
>>> 
>>> Saving after every edit is a remarkably annoying idea, especially given
>>> how long each save takes. I won't be doing that.
>>> 
>>> As for a backup, I'm not sure why I'd go to a backup. The problem doesn't
>>> always happen, so I don't believe it's a problem with data corruption. I'm
>>> trying to move forward with my books, not backward.
>>> 
>>> Nothing is holding me back from 4.11.
>>> 
>>> David
>>> 
>>> On July 19, 2022 3:57:55 PM GMT+03:00, Adrien Monteleone <
>>> adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:
 First, I'd reduce the steps before trying to save as a way of narrowing
>>> down the trigger of the crash.
 
 If you normally have many tabs open, particularly reports, perhaps
>>> consider closing everything but the CoA, and then keep only the register
>>> you need at one time.
 
 Since it is so easy to do, perhaps saving after each new transaction or
>>> edit?
 
 Then try reconciling. Then save. (does that reconcile still take longer
>>> than usual?)
 
 Do you have a backup, or recall at what point your file didn't crash?
 
 Anything holding you back from 4.11? I don't see anything particularly
>>> noted for solving a crash of this type in the release notes, but perhaps
>>> programming fixes were made that *might* avoid this issue.
 
 Regards,
 Adrien
 
 On 7/19/22 7:21 AM, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm running GC4.10 on Win10, and I've been running into numerous
>>> crashes in the last few days while trying to catch up on my finances.
>>> Ironically, many of these crashes happen when I attempt to save my file.
> 
> My usual workflow when catching up is to open the pdf bank statement
>>> and work through it to catch any omitted transactions, which I then enter
>>> into GC. After entering the transactions, I will then perform a reconcile
>>> for the account. Upon completing the reconciliation, I save my file. Over
>>> the last two days, GnuCash has crashed several times when I Ctrl-S at this
>>> point to save the file. (When I say crashed, I mean GnuCash simply
>>> disappears from the task bar, and a restart gives the usual file lock
>>> errors). This is, to say the least, frustrating.
> 
> I have checked the trace files for the days in question, but there is
>>> nothing that seemingly refers to the crash. The trace mostly contains
>>> thousands of iteration

Re: [GNC] Memory demands and system performance of Gnucash (Was Re: GC4.10 on Win10 Crashing)

[David Carlson]

Maybe I was the one that hijacked the thread so I need to apologize too.  I
sensed that you were having some issue with resources on your machine, that
was the reason for my comment about resources on my machines.  Whether the
file is compressed when it is stored does add encryption/decryption time to
data moves to and from storage but GnuCash always keeps it uncompressed in
RAM to whatever extent the OS environment allows, IIRC.  That is an
artifact of the reasoning for privacy concerns with network use.  That
said, some sandboxing schemes seem to have a major impact on performance
and results can be very different in various OSes.  Often users have little
or no choice about what is on their machines.  Your results will not match
mine, but we can compare notes when looking for better solutions.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 2:01 AM David T.  wrote:

> Geoff,
>
> Taking up the issue of Gnucash system demands and performance...
>
> I'll assume that your data file is not compressed.
>
> My data file is compressed and just over 5Mb on disk. On startup, Gnucash
> uses about 125Mb of memory. I haven't time startup or saving; startup is
> noticeable, but not problematic for me. Saving can take a couple of
> seconds. Also not a big deal (unless you're planning on doing it after
> every transaction edit).
>
> What I alluded to earlier, however, is that on my machine there is a
> significant lag when I Alt-tab from another application back to gnucash.
> For example, from a pdf reader (with my account statement loaded) back to
> gnucash. By "significant lag" I mean 45 seconds (I timed THAT one!).
>
> I have no idea why that would be, but I'm assuming that it's something to
> do with my specific computer. I just have no clue what to look for. Task
> manager doesn't show anything particularly egregious, although one cloud
> storage app seems to consume a lot of cycles continuously. (It's not
> Dropbox or Google) I've got a support query in on that. I do seem to have
> several different threads for various cloud services (including Dropbox and
> Google) and I wonder whether all that querying and checking affects
> performance...
>
> David T.
>
> P.S. it's fine to hijack a thread, if you rename the thread. Just saying.
>
> On July 20, 2022 3:34:43 AM GMT+03:00, Geoff 
> wrote:
>>
>> [Apologies to David T for diverting this thread.]
>>
>> FYI my main data file is 36MB on disc (XML format) and GnuCash has 85MB of 
>> RAM allocated when I open it.  It typically takes about 15 seconds to start 
>> up and open, and about 3 seconds to save to disc (SATA SSD).
>>
>> Windows 10, 8GB RAM, Intel i7-3770 CPU, 10+ years old hardware.
>>
>> GnuCash 4.8, not crashing.
>>
>> Geoff
>> --
>> On 20/07/2022 6:27 am, David Carlson wrote:
>>
>>> My data file is so big that it seems to tie up 1.5 gigs of Ram or more when
>>> open, so most of my computers cannot run a web browser simultaneously with
>>> GnuCash without using swap space and grinding down to a crawl.  Even on my
>>> highest performance machines it takes several seconds to save but I usually
>>> do it before starting any activity that will take more than a few minutes.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 1:43 PM David T. via gnucash-user <
>>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Adrien,

 Thanks for the suggestions.

 It would seem to me that Finish/Ctrl-S is pretty reduced.

 I currently have about 12 tabs open. 10 registers, the CoA, and one report
 (granted, it's a multicolumn report).

 Saving after every edit is a remarkably annoying idea, especially given
 how long each save takes. I won't be doing that.

 As for a backup, I'm not sure why I'd go to a backup. The problem doesn't
 always happen, so I don't believe it's a problem with data corruption. I'm
 trying to move forward with my books, not backward.

 Nothing is holding me back from 4.11.

 David

 On July 19, 2022 3:57:55 PM GMT+03:00, Adrien Monteleone <
 adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote:

> First, I'd reduce the steps before trying to save as a way of narrowing
>
 down the trigger of the crash.

>
> If you normally have many tabs open, particularly reports, perhaps
>
 consider closing everything but the CoA, and then keep only the register
 you need at one time.

>
> Since it is so easy to do, perhaps saving after each new transaction or
>
 edit?

>
> Then try reconciling. Then save. (does that reconcile still take longer
>
 than usual?)

>
> Do you have a backup, or recall at what point your file didn't crash?
>
> Anything holding you back from 4.11? I don't see anything particularly
>
 noted for solving a crash of this type in the release notes, but perhaps
 programming fixes were made that *might* avoid this issue.

>
> Regards,
> Adrien
>
> On 7/19/22 7:21 AM, David

[GNC] Hidden accounts still visible

[Stan Brown]

On 2022-07-19 23:40, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
> If you set an account to Hidden, it will be... hidden in the chart of 
> accounts. 

That seems logical, but it doesn't work that way for me in 2.6.19. I
just checked, and all my hidden accounts still show in the Accounts
panel. They also show up if I click the drop-down arrow in a register
while entering a new transaction.

Is there some preference I need to set to make "Hidden" mean hidden?

Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] Hidden accounts still visible

[Derek Atkins]

Hi,

On Wed, July 20, 2022 9:03 am, Stan Brown wrote:
> On 2022-07-19 23:40, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
>> If you set an account to Hidden, it will be... hidden in the chart of
>> accounts.
>
> That seems logical, but it doesn't work that way for me in 2.6.19. I
> just checked, and all my hidden accounts still show in the Accounts
> panel. They also show up if I click the drop-down arrow in a register
> while entering a new transaction.

I don't think anyone can talk to 2.6.19 -- that code is like a decade old!

Hidden is supposed to hide the account from the Chart of Accounts. 
However it will still be available in the drop-down for transactions. 
Placeholder accounts will be removed from the drop-down, but still visible
in the CoA.

> Is there some preference I need to set to make "Hidden" mean hidden?

If you want to remove the account from the CoA *AND* the drop-down, you
need to mark it both Hidden and Placeholder.

> Stan Brown
> Tehachapi, CA, USA
> https://BrownMath.com

> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
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-derek

-- 
   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant

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[GNC] Evil Lots Behavior

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Hello, 

In the course of catching up with my accounting, I've been working extensively 
with mutual fund holdings, and their buys and sells. I have found a disturbing 
bug in the way that the lots feature handles existing gains. 

Specifically, the software recalculates ALL gains in a lot the moment you 
select that lot. A user does not have to try and change anything in the lot; 
the mere act of selecting the lot causes every gain entry to be recalculated. 
The recalculation silently takes place without notice to the user, and it 
recalculates gains entries that have already been reconciled. Sometimes, the 
value on the reconciled gain transaction will be changed; at other times, new 
gains entries get created. I haven't figured out why a new entry is created 
sometimes, and the existing entry gets changed at others. 

This is highly problematic. It means that users cannot rely on lot-managed 
accounts having accurate gains information, and its silent action means that 
the user will not know why their accounts were accurate at one point, but not 
later on. 

To see this in action, create a mutual fund account, add a purchase of 100 
shares. Sell 25 shares at a different price, and then use the lots features to 
assign the purchase and then the sale to a lot. Gnucash will automatically 
create the gain transaction. Now, change the gain value in the transaction to 
something else. Reconcile the account, including the gains entry. Now, return 
to the lot window and select the lot. The gains will be recalculated-- even 
though the gain is already reconciled. 

If others confirm my observations, I'll file a bug. 

David T.
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Re: [GNC] Hidden accounts still visible

[David T. via gnucash-user]

You have set your view preferences to display hidden accounts. View->Filter by 
{Other  tab} Show hidden accounts

To hide an account in the drop down list, set the account to Placeholder. 


On July 20, 2022 4:03:40 PM GMT+03:00, Stan Brown  
wrote:
>On 2022-07-19 23:40, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
>> If you set an account to Hidden, it will be... hidden in the chart of 
>> accounts. 
>
>That seems logical, but it doesn't work that way for me in 2.6.19. I
>just checked, and all my hidden accounts still show in the Accounts
>panel. They also show up if I click the drop-down arrow in a register
>while entering a new transaction.
>
>Is there some preference I need to set to make "Hidden" mean hidden?
>
>Stan Brown
>Tehachapi, CA, USA
>https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] Hidden accounts still visible

[David T. via gnucash-user]

BTW, this is covered in 5.4 of the Guide. 

On July 20, 2022 4:57:15 PM GMT+03:00, "David T. via gnucash-user" 
 wrote:
>You have set your view preferences to display hidden accounts. View->Filter by 
>{Other  tab} Show hidden accounts
>
>To hide an account in the drop down list, set the account to Placeholder. 
>
>
>On July 20, 2022 4:03:40 PM GMT+03:00, Stan Brown  
>wrote:
>>On 2022-07-19 23:40, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
>>> If you set an account to Hidden, it will be... hidden in the chart of 
>>> accounts. 
>>
>>That seems logical, but it doesn't work that way for me in 2.6.19. I
>>just checked, and all my hidden accounts still show in the Accounts
>>panel. They also show up if I click the drop-down arrow in a register
>>while entering a new transaction.
>>
>>Is there some preference I need to set to make "Hidden" mean hidden?
>>
>>Stan Brown
>>Tehachapi, CA, USA
>>https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] Hidden accounts still visible

[Stan Brown]

On 2022-07-20 06:57, David T. wrote:
> You have set your view preferences to display hidden accounts.
> View->Filter by {Other tab} Show hidden accounts

Ah, that was it!  Thanks, David!

> To hide an account in the drop down list, set the account to Placeholder.
> 
> 
> On July 20, 2022 4:03:40 PM GMT+03:00, Stan Brown
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2022-07-19 23:40, David T. via gnucash-user wrote:
> If you set an account to Hidden, it will be... hidden in the
> chart of accounts.
> 
> That seems logical, but it doesn't work that way for me in 2.6.19. I
> just checked, and all my hidden accounts still show in the Accounts
> panel. They also show up if I click the drop-down arrow in a register
> while entering a new transaction.
> 
> Is there some preference I need to set to make "Hidden" mean hidden?


Stan Brown
Tehachapi, CA, USA
https://BrownMath.com
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Re: [GNC] Transaction imports

[Tom Browder]

On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 07:53 Christian Lynbech  wrote:

> Where is the information related to transaction imports saved? I am on a
> Mac.
>
> I have my books stored under revision control


FWIW, I also keep mine under version control with git. I make sure the data
file is in **unzipped xml format** to help the diffing be at least somewhat
easier for a human eye to interpret if need be.

-Tom
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Re: [GNC] Evil Lots Behavior

[David Carlson]

It could be very helpful to learn if this started in a recent release, or
has it been that way since back in the 3.x series.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 8:54 AM David T. via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> In the course of catching up with my accounting, I've been working
> extensively with mutual fund holdings, and their buys and sells. I have
> found a disturbing bug in the way that the lots feature handles existing
> gains.
>
> Specifically, the software recalculates ALL gains in a lot the moment you
> select that lot. A user does not have to try and change anything in the
> lot; the mere act of selecting the lot causes every gain entry to be
> recalculated. The recalculation silently takes place without notice to the
> user, and it recalculates gains entries that have already been reconciled.
> Sometimes, the value on the reconciled gain transaction will be changed; at
> other times, new gains entries get created. I haven't figured out why a new
> entry is created sometimes, and the existing entry gets changed at others.
>
> This is highly problematic. It means that users cannot rely on lot-managed
> accounts having accurate gains information, and its silent action means
> that the user will not know why their accounts were accurate at one point,
> but not later on.
>
> To see this in action, create a mutual fund account, add a purchase of 100
> shares. Sell 25 shares at a different price, and then use the lots features
> to assign the purchase and then the sale to a lot. Gnucash will
> automatically create the gain transaction. Now, change the gain value in
> the transaction to something else. Reconcile the account, including the
> gains entry. Now, return to the lot window and select the lot. The gains
> will be recalculated-- even though the gain is already reconciled.
>
> If others confirm my observations, I'll file a bug.
>
> David T.
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-- 
David Carlson
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Re: [GNC] Setting up online banking finishes without success or error...

[Jeffrey Bush]

Nothing shows up in accounts.

According to https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/File:OFX_Create_user_6.png there
should at least be a "Parsing response...", "Status" messages for the web
requests, and then "Received account ..." for each account. The fact that
it isn't getting any of those at all means it is aborting quite early.

I will try the aqbanking mailing list as well.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 12:54 AM David Reiser  wrote:

>
> > On Jul 19, 2022, at 10:57 PM, Jeffrey Bush 
> wrote:
> >
> > I am setting up OFX-DirectConnect backend in GnuCash and I enter all of
> the
> > information for the user and when I get to the end it asks you to request
> > the account list. I do that and the resulting output says:
> >
> > 22:34:28 Sending request...
> > 22:34:28 Using GnuTLS default ciphers.
> > 22:34:28 TLS: SSL-Ciphers negotiated: TLS1.3:ECDHE-RSA-AES-128-GCM:AEAD
> > 22:34:28 Waiting for response...
> > 22:34:28 Operation finished, you can now close this window.
> >
> > All examples I can see online have something between "Waiting for
> > response..." and "Operation finished". An error, a success message,
> > something. But I get nothing at all.
> >
> > I have double-checked all of the settings and they are correct. I have
> used
> > the Python library ofxtools to connect with the settings and they work
> and
> > I am able to get a list of accounts and transactions with that tool. The
> > settings are:
> >
> > FID = '94089'
> > ORG = 'starone.org'
> > URL = 'https://fs-services.1fsapi.com/eftxweb/tyfone.ofx'
> > Client ID = 'F878CCBF-0AB5-4C61-A8DD-DD77275B4558'
> > The username and password don't have anything besides letters and numbers
> > in them (the wiki mentioned that that could sometimes be a problem). If I
> > do give a username/password combo that is bad I do get an error during
> the
> > account list retrieval, so it is at least getting that far.
> >
> > Is there any way to get more logs of why this might be going wrong? I was
> > thinking of submitting this to the aq mailing list, but I don't know
> > German...
> >
> > Another solution that I would actually prefer is to be able to run OFX
> > import from the command line or API. I know that it would have to make
> > assumptions about which accounts to make expenses go into since that is
> > normally done interactively, but I am actually completely fine with that.
> > What I want is to get the bayesian matching predictions that I can
> correct
> > later.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > ___
>
> Well, you don’t have an error message, so that suggests you completed the
> request.
>
> That window that you can close is the comm status window, not the
> aqbanking setup window.
>
> If you look in the aqbanking setup dialog, there is a Users tab and an
> Accounts tab. Have you looked to see if anything has shown up in the
> Accounts tab?
>
> Martin (author of aqbanking) does just fine with English queries on the
> aqbanking mailing list. And he’s the best authority on aqbanking operation.
> Occasionally the gnucash interface with aqbanking throws in a couple curve
> balls, but he’d probably still know how to proceed.
>
>
> --
> Dave Reiser
> dbrei...@icloud.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [GNC] Revising an old Gnucash file

[Tom Browder]

On Tue, Jul 19, 2022 at 3:27 PM Tom Browder  wrote:
> I have my original Gnucash file which has been continually used (for about 15 
> years)  mainly as a simple check book app to replace Quicken.

I appreciate all the help and suggestions I've received. I think I
know how to proceed for now.

To answer several helpers: the reason I wanted to hide or delete some
accounts is because, years ago, I tried importing security data from
several financial accounts but didn't keep them current. Most of those
securities have since been either transferred to another institution,
sold, or converted into IRA accounts. In general, I want to keep that
original data but only for possible historical use for any audits.

I want my book to just reflect active bank accounts, home improvements
and basis, expenses, liabilities, and income. I will add existing
non-bank financial assets in the aggregate (by institution, probably
updated monthly, possibly via OFX or QIF).

So, unless someone has any more suggestions, consider this thread closed.

Thanks again for tons of friendly advice--I'm sure I'll be asking for
help again.

Blessings,

-Tom
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Re: [GNC] Evil Lots Behavior

[Geoff]

My recollection is that Lots have always worked this way, even as far 
back as GnuCash Version 2.


My opinion is that this not a bug, it is just how Lots work.  The price 
you pay for using Lots is that Lots rule the capital gains/losses 
calculations and will trump (and, as you have found, even trample on) 
any other transactions that get in their way.


Ask yourself the "Michael or Penny Question (TM)": WHY are you trying to 
change the gain value computed by GnuCash to something else?


If your answer is "because I need to include Commissions or Fees in the 
calculation" then you are out of luck.  See:


9.7.2.8. Considerations
There are some points that should be considered before using the lot 
management facility.


3. Scrubbing does not recognize commissions or fees so makes no 
allowance for them in the calculation of gain or loss. Therefore you 
must use Net Pricing rather than Gross Pricing if you wish to use 
scrubbing. See Section 9.5.2.1, “Handling Commissions and Fees”.


https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/invest-sell1.html#:~:text=GnuCash%20can%20automatically%20calculate%20and,securities%20sold%20can%20be%20determined.

AND

9.5.2.1. Handling Commissions and Fees
https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/invest-buy-stock1.html#invest-buy-com


In summary:
Lots can be useful for matching Buys & Sells, either automatically on a 
FIFO basis or manually on a pick and choose basis.

Lots have only one method to calculate Capital Gains/Losses.
Lots user interface behaviour is tricky to learn until you master it 
(largely in my case by trial and error).

Lots functionality does not cover all use cases.
Lots are ruthless, but not intrinsically evil.
If you want to do your own Capital Gains/Losses calculations, you can, 
but just don't use Lots at all.


Important Lots tip:
Lots calculations are fully reversible - just delete all the Capital 
Gains/Losses transactions it created and start matching Buys and Sells 
again.  Rinse and repeat.



Hope this helps.

Regards

Geoff
=


On 21/07/2022 12:40 am, David Carlson wrote:

It could be very helpful to learn if this started in a recent release, or
has it been that way since back in the 3.x series.

On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 8:54 AM David T. via gnucash-user <
gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:


Hello,

In the course of catching up with my accounting, I've been working
extensively with mutual fund holdings, and their buys and sells. I have
found a disturbing bug in the way that the lots feature handles existing
gains.

Specifically, the software recalculates ALL gains in a lot the moment you
select that lot. A user does not have to try and change anything in the
lot; the mere act of selecting the lot causes every gain entry to be
recalculated. The recalculation silently takes place without notice to the
user, and it recalculates gains entries that have already been reconciled.
Sometimes, the value on the reconciled gain transaction will be changed; at
other times, new gains entries get created. I haven't figured out why a new
entry is created sometimes, and the existing entry gets changed at others.

This is highly problematic. It means that users cannot rely on lot-managed
accounts having accurate gains information, and its silent action means
that the user will not know why their accounts were accurate at one point,
but not later on.

To see this in action, create a mutual fund account, add a purchase of 100
shares. Sell 25 shares at a different price, and then use the lots features
to assign the purchase and then the sale to a lot. Gnucash will
automatically create the gain transaction. Now, change the gain value in
the transaction to something else. Reconcile the account, including the
gains entry. Now, return to the lot window and select the lot. The gains
will be recalculated-- even though the gain is already reconciled.

If others confirm my observations, I'll file a bug.

David T.
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Re: [GNC] Multiple currencies

[Norbert Klein]

Thanks, Paul (yours was the first), and several others who responded.

My responses are often late, because my Internet access (in the
countryside in Cambodia) is not regular and stable.

Thanks a lot!

Norbert


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Re: [GNC] Multiple currencies

[Norbert Klein]

Servus GNUcash helper,

thanks for the detailed advice - I am working through it.

But I get aware that my problems start sometime one more level down,
when I read: "When you create a new account, you have the option to
define the commodity in which that account is denominated."

Yes, I try to create a sample database, but "when I create a new
account" - I have not yet been able to define the commodity (in which
that account is denominated).

I hope to get it soon (others tell me at my ago of 88 I should just not
try new things. I do not agree.

Norbert


On 18-Jul-22 02:10, list+gnuc...@jdlh.com wrote:

Servus Norbert, welcome to GnuCash:

On 2022-07-16 22:14, Norbert Klein wrote:

I am a new gnucash user, living in Cambodia (since 32 years).

I downloaded (in Windows 10), installed and tried to set up gnucash with
the US$ as the basic currency (which was already set-up as a default). I
have not yet set up the accounts.

Then I tried to find out how to make it possible to use, in addition,
also the Cambodian currency - the Riel - which is used here,
alternatively to the US$, every day. The Riel is available as one of the
currencies that can be used in gnucash.

I spent quite some time reading gnucash documents, but so far without
success. I would be most grateful if somebody could help me.


I have used GnuCash for many years with a book that included
transactions in Canadian Dollars, US Dollars, Euros,  Japanese Yen,
and more. It all works quite well. I can encourage you that what you
seek is definitely possible.

My advice to you:

1. Do read the GnuCash concepts and tutorial guide, especially Chapter
12 /Multiple Currencies/
.

2. Do enable Trading Accounts, as described in 12. /Automatically
Recording Currency Transactions using Trading Accounts/
.
I have always used them. (In fact, I cannot tell you what happens if
you do not use them, because I have not tried.

3. I second Paul Kroitor's excellent advice that you make a "test
book" for practice and experiments. Accept a default chart of
accounts. Make a few accounts in KHR currency. Enter a few test
transactions. See how things work.  Then set up your real book.

4. I use the one currency structure for my asset accounts, and a
different currency structure for my expense accounts. See if either of
these makes sense for you.

a. Who / Currency / Category / Detail structure, which I use in my
Asset accounts.

Level 1: Who, i.e. Personal assets vs My Business assets.
Level 2: Currency, e.g. CAD Personal assets vs USD Personal assets.
Level 3: Category, adopted from GnuCash suggested chart of accounts,
i.e. Current Assets, Investments, Accounts Receivable
Level 4: Detail, adopted from specific bank accounts and investment
accounts, e.g. Credit Union Chequing, Cash, Brokerage Account Cash
Balance.

e.g. Assets:Personal Assets:CAD Personal Assets:Current Assets:Credit
Union Chequing
Assets:Personal Assets:CAD Personal Assets:Current Assets:Cash CAD in
pocket
Assets:Personal Assets:USD Personal Assets:Investments:Brokerage
account:USD Cash Balance
Assets:Business Assets:USD Personal Assets:Current Assets:Paypal acct USD

b. Who / Detail / Currency structure, which I use in my Expense accounts.

Level 1: Who, i.e. Personal expenses vs My Business expenses.
Level 2: Detail, adopted from GnuCash suggested chart of accounts,
modified by my own needs, i.e. Rent, Groceries, Dining
Level 3: Currency, e.g. CAD Groceries vs USD Groceries.

e.g. Expenses:Personal Expenses:Groceries:CAD Groceries
Expenses:Personal Expenses:Groceries:USD Groceries
Expenses:Personal Expenses:Groceries:CAD Rent
Expenses:Business Expenses:Computer Accessories:CAD Computer Accessories
Expenses:Business Expenses:Computer Accessories:USD Computer Accessories

I enter way more Expense account paths than Asset account paths. This
currency-last structure makes it easier for GnuCash to complete each
segment of the path when I type just the first few characters. If I
type "Ex:P:Gro:C" then GnuCash expands those initial characters to
"Expenses:Personal Expenses:Groceries:CAD Groceries".

5. Don't feel like you have to get the account tree right the first
time. You can change the structure and the account names later, and
the transactions will move with the changes.

Or more accurately: when you create an Account, GnuCash gives it a
unique identifier behind the scenes. The transactions are linked to
these unique identifiers, not to the Account's name or parent
accounts. When you change the Account's name, or move it to a
different parent Account, the identifier remains unchanged. Thus the
transactions are still attached to the account, despite its new name
and parent.

I hope this is helpful.  Have fun with the experiments!

Best regards,
 —Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada


Norbert (Klein) - a German

___

Re: [GNC] Multiple currencies

[Norbert Klein]

Thanks, David,

This kind of VERY simple example is really helpful for a beginner:

Expenses
- Groceries
- - USD (USD-denominated account)
- - KHR (KHR-denominated account)

Norbert

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[GNC] GnuCash installation problems

[Norbert Klein]

After installation (in Windows 10), I get when I click the GnuCash icon
on the desktop, in “Program Files (x86)” the following.  But it says
“Unsaved Book” – and the screen shows:

bin
doc
etc
lib
share
uninstall

I tried to find a “trigger” file to start GnuCash runnig – but I could not.

Maybe there is an installation error on my computer? Any helpful
suggestion please.

Norbert

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Re: [GNC] Evil Lots Behavior

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Thanks for the information and background. 

While I understand and agree with much of the reasoning in what you're saying, 
I think that my major issues with the lots feature are threefold. 

First is that sometimes its calculations don't match what the brokerage lists. 
Since the brokerage reports to the government, and it's their business to 
report according to the law, I'm going to prefer their numbers over Gnucash's. 
If the lot feature presents the wrong number, I'm going to change it. I should 
be able to

Second is that you don't have to scrub an account or even a lot for the system 
to change existing data. All you have to do is click on the lot and view it. It 
seems to me that the mere act of viewing a lot should not cause changes. That 
should be user-initiated through an active click on something. Heisenberg's 
principle should not apply to lots in GnuCash! 

Third, it most certainly shouldn't be changing transactions that have been 
reconciled. It does this completely silently and doesn't trigger the notice 
that you're changing a reconciled transaction. That flies in the face of how 
the rest of the app works, not to mention with the concept of a reconciled 
transaction. I can't see how this can NOT be a bug. 

Because of this undocumented behavior, I have NO WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER MY 
BOOKS ARE STILL ACCURATE. If I want to ensure that they are, I will have to go 
back through all 17 years of commodity history and re-reconcile it all. 

What fun! 

David T.

On July 21, 2022 3:57:35 AM GMT+03:00, Geoff  wrote:
>My recollection is that Lots have always worked this way, even as far back as 
>GnuCash Version 2.
>
>My opinion is that this not a bug, it is just how Lots work.  The price you 
>pay for using Lots is that Lots rule the capital gains/losses calculations and 
>will trump (and, as you have found, even trample on) any other transactions 
>that get in their way.
>
>Ask yourself the "Michael or Penny Question (TM)": WHY are you trying to 
>change the gain value computed by GnuCash to something else?
>
>If your answer is "because I need to include Commissions or Fees in the 
>calculation" then you are out of luck.  See:
>
>9.7.2.8. Considerations
>There are some points that should be considered before using the lot 
>management facility.
>
>3. Scrubbing does not recognize commissions or fees so makes no allowance for 
>them in the calculation of gain or loss. Therefore you must use Net Pricing 
>rather than Gross Pricing if you wish to use scrubbing. See Section 9.5.2.1, 
>“Handling Commissions and Fees”.
>
>https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/invest-sell1.html#:~:text=GnuCash%20can%20automatically%20calculate%20and,securities%20sold%20can%20be%20determined.
>
>AND
>
>9.5.2.1. Handling Commissions and Fees
>https://code.gnucash.org/docs/C/gnucash-guide/invest-buy-stock1.html#invest-buy-com
>
>
>In summary:
>Lots can be useful for matching Buys & Sells, either automatically on a FIFO 
>basis or manually on a pick and choose basis.
>Lots have only one method to calculate Capital Gains/Losses.
>Lots user interface behaviour is tricky to learn until you master it (largely 
>in my case by trial and error).
>Lots functionality does not cover all use cases.
>Lots are ruthless, but not intrinsically evil.
>If you want to do your own Capital Gains/Losses calculations, you can, but 
>just don't use Lots at all.
>
>Important Lots tip:
>Lots calculations are fully reversible - just delete all the Capital 
>Gains/Losses transactions it created and start matching Buys and Sells again.  
>Rinse and repeat.
>
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Regards
>
>Geoff
>=
>
>
>On 21/07/2022 12:40 am, David Carlson wrote:
>> It could be very helpful to learn if this started in a recent release, or
>> has it been that way since back in the 3.x series.
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2022 at 8:54 AM David T. via gnucash-user <
>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> In the course of catching up with my accounting, I've been working
>>> extensively with mutual fund holdings, and their buys and sells. I have
>>> found a disturbing bug in the way that the lots feature handles existing
>>> gains.
>>> 
>>> Specifically, the software recalculates ALL gains in a lot the moment you
>>> select that lot. A user does not have to try and change anything in the
>>> lot; the mere act of selecting the lot causes every gain entry to be
>>> recalculated. The recalculation silently takes place without notice to the
>>> user, and it recalculates gains entries that have already been reconciled.
>>> Sometimes, the value on the reconciled gain transaction will be changed; at
>>> other times, new gains entries get created. I haven't figured out why a new
>>> entry is created sometimes, and the existing entry gets changed at others.
>>> 
>>> This is highly problematic. It means that users cannot rely on lot-managed
>>> accounts having accurate gains information, and its silent action means
>>> that the user will not know why t

Re: [GNC] Online Help manual CSV import section is out of date

[davidcousens49]

David,

I had a look at both Chapter 3 in the Tutorial and GUide on Importing and Ch6 in
the Help Manual. What has happened was the decision was made to move the
importing section into the help manual a couple of years ago when I rewrote the
Ch6 in the Help manual so I created the rewritten section in the Help manual and
the original remains in the  Tutorial and Concepts Guide. It should have been
removed but I neglected to do it at the time. There is no reference to category
in the Ch6 of the Help manual. 

I will submit a patch to remove Ch3 in the Guide and will simply add a note that
information on importing data is now in the Help manual.

Cheers

David Cousens


On Mon, 2022-07-18 at 01:36 -0500, David Carlson wrote:
> I had not looked at the Tutorial version on importing transactions
> recently.  I see it is now calling itself obsolete and it really is.  I do
> not want to get into a discussion about which document should contain what
> information, but neither should be obsolete.  One of them should be very
> detailed and could be referenced by the other.
> 
> The help windows included with the import wizards are currently the best
> source of information but they are only available while using the wizards.
> Unfortunately it is a very slow process to complete an import if there are
> more than a dozen or so transactions in the file, and I think even that
> fact should be mentioned in the  help.  There is no help at all for
> importing multi-split line transactions which did work correctly for me
> with a bank account file created by the GnuCash export process.
> 
> The help manual bundled with the Windows version of release 4.11 at least
> contains a couple current illustrations if not good information about the
> various details that are needed to get good results.  It is the third
> import screen which is not illustrated in the help manual that contains the
> word category which has a different meaning to former Quicken users than to
> GnuCash users.
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jul 17, 2022 at 11:45 PM flywire  wrote:
> 
> > I think the GnuCash Tutorial and Concepts Guide is an excellent
> > introduction for Getting Started and Managing Personal Finances. The small
> > dataset demonstrates a lot. The only thing that really looks dated is the
> > checkbook-style transaction descriptions which are very different to modern
> > bank transaction descriptions. I understand from general comments in the
> > mailing list that others have a different view but I don't think those
> > concerns have been clearly described, something that is needed to fix the
> > problems.
> > 
> > How about aligning the Help manual Importing transactions from files with
> > the Concepts guide transactions? IIRC that's how it was when this section
> > was in the guide. I'm happy to contribute.
> > ___
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> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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> > -
> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
> > 
> 
> 

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Re: [GNC] Multiple currencies

[Jim DeLaHunt]

Hello, Norbert:

On 2022-07-20 03:41, Norbert Klein wrote:

Servus GNUcash helper,

thanks for the detailed advice - I am working through it.

But I get aware that my problems start sometime one more level down,
when I read: "When you create a new account, you have the option to
define the commodity in which that account is denominated."

Yes, I try to create a sample database, but "when I create a new
account" - I have not yet been able to define the commodity (in which
that account is denominated).


Let me see if I can explain this part better.

Take a look at the Gnucash Tutorial and Concepts guide, 
. 
Scroll down to section *2.8.3.2. The Basic Top Level Accounts*. There is 
a picture there of the New Account dialogue. Do you see something like 
this when you create a new account?


The dialogue has a field labelled "Security/currency". In the picture, 
the field contains "USD (US Dollar)". To its right is a button labelled 
"Select…".


Click on the "Select…" button. A small dialogue, with the title "Select 
currency…", appears. It has two fields. The upper field is labelled 
"Type", and it contains the word "Currencies". Leave that unchanged. The 
lower field is labelled "Currency". It contains some currency name 
(perhaps "USD (US Dollar)" in your case). To the right is a black 
triangle pointing down.


Click on that black triangle to the right of "Currency". A gigantic menu 
appears, containing codes for currencies, in alphabetical order. Scroll 
through this menu until you find "KHR (Riel)". Click on it. The menu 
disappears, and you are back at the small dialogue. Now, the lower field 
contains "KHR (Riel)".


Click on the "OK" button. The small dialogue disappears, and you are 
back at "New Account" dialogue. The field labelled "Security/currency" 
now contains "KHR (Riel)".


Do any other account setup you need to in that dialogue. For instance, 
enter an Account name at the top, select the Account Type from the list 
at the lower left, and maybe change the new Account's parent Account at 
the lower right.


Then press the "OK" button. The New Account dialogue disappears. 
Congratulations! You have created a new account, denominated in KHR.


Does this method work for you, in your books?

I hope to get it soon (others tell me at my ago of 88 I should just not

try new things. I do not agree.


The age of 88 sounds like a wonderful time to try new things! Have fun 
with it.


Best regards,
    —Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada




Norbert


On 18-Jul-22 02:10, list+gnuc...@jdlh.com wrote:

Servus Norbert, welcome to GnuCash:

On 2022-07-16 22:14, Norbert Klein wrote:

I am a new gnucash user, living in Cambodia (since 32 years).

I downloaded (in Windows 10), installed and tried to set up gnucash 
with
the US$ as the basic currency (which was already set-up as a 
default). I

have not yet set up the accounts.

Then I tried to find out how to make it possible to use, in addition,
also the Cambodian currency - the Riel - which is used here,
alternatively to the US$, every day. The Riel is available as one of 
the

currencies that can be used in gnucash.

I spent quite some time reading gnucash documents, but so far without
success. I would be most grateful if somebody could help me.


I have used GnuCash for many years with a book that included
transactions in Canadian Dollars, US Dollars, Euros,  Japanese Yen,
and more. It all works quite well. I can encourage you that what you
seek is definitely possible.

My advice to you:

1. Do read the GnuCash concepts and tutorial guide, especially Chapter
12 /Multiple Currencies/
.

2. Do enable Trading Accounts, as described in 12. /Automatically
Recording Currency Transactions using Trading Accounts/
. 


I have always used them. (In fact, I cannot tell you what happens if
you do not use them, because I have not tried.

3. I second Paul Kroitor's excellent advice that you make a "test
book" for practice and experiments. Accept a default chart of
accounts. Make a few accounts in KHR currency. Enter a few test
transactions. See how things work.  Then set up your real book.

4. I use the one currency structure for my asset accounts, and a
different currency structure for my expense accounts. See if either of
these makes sense for you.

a. Who / Currency / Category / Detail structure, which I use in my
Asset accounts.

Level 1: Who, i.e. Personal assets vs My Business assets.
Level 2: Currency, e.g. CAD Personal assets vs USD Personal assets.
Level 3: Category, adopted from GnuCash suggested chart of accounts,
i.e. Current Assets, Investments, Accounts Receivable
Level 4: Detail, adopted from specific bank accounts and investment
accounts, e.g. Credit Union Chequing, Cash, Brokerage Account Cash
Balance.

e.g. Assets:Personal Assets:CAD Persona