Re: [GNC] Cashflow-like report to show realized and unrealized gains / balance sheet delta report

[Chary Chary]

Christopher,

thanks.

But I must say, I still have a sneaky feeling, that I may be missing
something, because I just don't understand how people who deal with several
currencies and who have stock can possibly live without such report, which
would show unrealized gains.

Without report with unrealized gains you have a situation, that you have
some balance at the beginning, balance at the end, but you have no report,
which would show how you got from balance at the beginning to balance at
the end. Even though all your individual transactions are balanced, if you
add them all together they will not produce a delta between balance sheets,
in case you deal with  more then one currency or have stock / gold
(anything).

In a very simple situation:

Say I want to report in EUR, but I keep money in USD. Say I have 1000 USD
and exchange rate was 1:1 at the beginning.
So, starting balance sheet will say, that I have 1000 EUR
Then exchange rate changed and now 1 USD costs 2 EUR. So, all of a sudden
balance sheet at the closing will show, that I now have 2000 EUR.
But how did happen?
I would then expect some line, saying something like: "unrealized gain due
to USD/EUR" exchange rate changes"  - 1000 EURO.

The same applies to stock changes.

Am I talking some nonsense? How do people manage their finance without such
analysis in our modern world?

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 1:49 PM Christopher Lam 
wrote:

> Unfortunately there is *no* income statement type report which will
> calculate unrealized gains for you.
> Your best bet is to reevaluate periodically using the usual balance sheet.
>
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 06:28, Chary Chary  wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> thank you for help, but I just can't make it work.
>>
>> I try a very simple setup:
>>
>> Main currency - Euro
>>
>> 1000 USD are moved to checking Account at the beginning of the period.
>>
>> Exchange rate at the beginning - 1 USD costs 1 Euro
>>
>> Middle of the year it changes - 1 USD costs 2 Euro
>>
>> No transactions
>>
>> Net Worth Barchart  correctly shows increase is Net Worth throughout
>> the year. However Income statement report does not show any traces on why
>> net wort has increased now.
>>
>> Based on my understanding of the Tutorial on multiple currency accounting
>> (
>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html ) I would
>> expect, that the statement would include line:
>>
>> Unrealized gain due to USD/Euro exchange rate  - 1000 Euro  or something
>> similar
>>
>>
>> Any ideas on how to achieve this with Gnucash?
>>
>> For illustration I have created simple document with screenshots as well
>> my
>> test file
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T3KEhAOkkytyW1Dne0vVs259cv0WxtfK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 1:02 AM Chary Chary  wrote:
>>
>> > Hello everybody,
>> >
>> > I just started learning gnucash with the goal to depart from my from my
>> > Excel-based bookkeeping system with pivot tables, so forgive me if I ask
>> > stupid question. i think I read pretty much all of the help file, but
>> still
>> > didn't understand whether the following is possible:
>> >
>> > I am just wondering  whether there is a cashflow-like report which shows
>> > also realized and unrealized gains for certain period
>> >
>> > What exactly I mean by this:
>> >
>> > Say at the beginning of the year I have produced a Balance Sheet report.
>> > This report shows how much assets I have, which liabilities and delta
>> > between them. Suppose at begging of the year I had checking accounts in
>> USD
>> > and Euro and some stock.
>> > Throughout the year I was getting salary, paying expenses, at the same
>> > time exchange rate was changing, stock price was changing etc. My be I
>> sold
>> > some stock, moved money between USD and Euro accounts
>> >
>> > Now at the end of the year I have produced a new balance sheet.
>> >
>> > So, I want to be able to explain a delta between a balance sheet at the
>> > beginning of the ear and at the end.
>> >
>> > E.g.:
>> >
>> > I got so much salary
>> > I paid so much costs
>> >
>> > But also:
>> > Lost so much due to exchange rate change
>> > Gained to much due to stock price increase etc.
>> >
>> > So, effectively I need to be able to drill down in the delta in Balance
>> > Sheet report
>> >
>> > Regards.
>> > Chary
>> >
>> ___
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>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
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>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
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[GNC] Help! Decimal point won't enter; description freezes

[Finbar Mahon]

Hello,

Using - Version: 3.4
Build ID: 3.4+ (2018-12-30)

On Windows 10 Home, version 1803, on a Lenovo PC

Entering data in a bank account, exisiting, not new.

Entering description, freezes, won't move on; then, if it does, entering 
amount won't take the decimal point.


This does not happen for every entry, but when it does it is irritating, 
sometimes the work around is to delete the transaction and retry, but 
not always.


Finbar

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Re: [GNC] Accounting for gold coins

[Gary Holtum]

Adrien,

I guess I am missing the point here. I can't enter a simple transaction for 
buying gold coins. I know the quantity and the total cost. I cr cash and dr 
gold acct. I get imbalance. I don't understand need for "Trading Acct" on. I 
tried "buy" gold and "sell" cash but got imbalance errors.

Presently. I have an acct, gold, that has a balance representing the total of 
three purchases at different unit costs. I would like to be able to see the 
current increase or decrease in value of the total based on market fluctuations.

I set up a new currency account  using XAU but I can't enter the transactions 
without errors. I am doing something wrong!

A detailed walk through of a transaction would be very helpful.

Gary

-Original Message-
From: gnucash-user 
[mailto:gnucash-user-bounces+diamondhranchqh=earthlink@gnucash.org] On 
Behalf Of Adrien Monteleone
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 7:46 PM
To: gnucash-user
Subject: Re: [GNC] Accounting for gold coins

Since XAU and XAG are one-ounce quotes, I simply enter them as their own 
currency unit.

So if I buy a 10oz. bar of silver, I’d enter it in the XAG account as 10.00. 
(because I have trading accounts turned on, GnuCash will create the USD 
equivalent splits for me and auto-balance them)

If I buy a $10 face-value roll of 90% half-dollars, I’d enter them as 
(99/256)*20. (and let GnuCash do the math) [99/256 is the reduced fraction of 
185-10/16 grains, which is the legal amount of pure silver in the coin, and the 
480 grains to the Troy ounce.]

Of course a one-ounce coin or ingot would just be 1.00.

If you purchased in gram increments, you’d have to convert to ounces first as 
that is the basis for the price quote. (roughly 31.1 grams to the Troy ounce if 
I recall correctly, but you’ll likely need more significant digits than that)

You don’t have to use the price quote feature. You can just denominate them in 
your home currency and do the math outside of GnuCash.

I don’t think you can define your own currency, but I seem to recall this being 
discussed on the list or in a bug report somewhere. Otherwise, you could create 
a gold-gram currency for example, and then either set up your own quote source, 
or possibly create a fixed exchange rate to XAU and when that updates, your 
custom gold-gram would update. But I really don’t think that ability has been 
implemented.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Feb 26, 2019, at 3:47 PM, Gary Holtum  
> wrote:
> 
> Adrian - How do you enter them in ounces?
> 
> Gary
> 


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Re: [GNC] Accounting for gold coins

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Gnucash by policy uses the ISO currency definitions, which precludes any 
additions or extensions. And yes, this had been discussed before. Workarounds 
have focused either on treating metals like any other commodity, as you have 
done here, or by loading your alternative (e.g., bitcoin) on an unused 
currency. 
Hth,David
 
 
  On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 6:17, Adrien 
Monteleone wrote:  

I don’t think you can define your own currency, but I seem to recall this being 
discussed on the list or in a bug report somewhere. Otherwise, you could create 
a gold-gram currency for example, and then either set up your own quote source, 
or possibly create a fixed exchange rate to XAU and when that updates, your 
custom gold-gram would update. But I really don’t think that ability has been 
implemented.

Regards,
Adrien

> On Feb 26, 2019, at 3:47 PM, Gary Holtum  
> wrote:
> 
> Adrian - How do you enter them in ounces?
> 
> Gary
> 


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Re: [GNC] Cashflow-like report to show realized and unrealiz

[David T. via gnucash-user]

IANAA, but as I understand it, gnucash doesn't track unrealized gains well 
mostly because traditional accounting isn't focused on unrealized gains. I'm 
told that accountants want to be certain that the *amount* of what you have is 
accurate. The value of that is less interesting.

Honestly, the deeper you dig in that hole, the crazier it seems to get. Value 
as determined by whom? At what time? In what jurisdiction? In which currency? 
At what exchange rate? All of these will affect a valuation that ultimately is 
a fantasy. Just ask any art collector...

None of it is real until someone pays for it-- and then you have a transaction 
to record it. 

David 

 
 
  On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 15:50, Chary Chary wrote:   
Christopher,

thanks.

But I must say, I still have a sneaky feeling, that I may be missing
something, because I just don't understand how people who deal with several
currencies and who have stock can possibly live without such report, which
would show unrealized gains.

Without report with unrealized gains you have a situation, that you have
some balance at the beginning, balance at the end, but you have no report,
which would show how you got from balance at the beginning to balance at
the end. Even though all your individual transactions are balanced, if you
add them all together they will not produce a delta between balance sheets,
in case you deal with  more then one currency or have stock / gold
(anything).

In a very simple situation:

Say I want to report in EUR, but I keep money in USD. Say I have 1000 USD
and exchange rate was 1:1 at the beginning.
So, starting balance sheet will say, that I have 1000 EUR
Then exchange rate changed and now 1 USD costs 2 EUR. So, all of a sudden
balance sheet at the closing will show, that I now have 2000 EUR.
But how did happen?
I would then expect some line, saying something like: "unrealized gain due
to USD/EUR" exchange rate changes"  - 1000 EURO.

The same applies to stock changes.

Am I talking some nonsense? How do people manage their finance without such
analysis in our modern world?

On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 1:49 PM Christopher Lam 
wrote:

> Unfortunately there is *no* income statement type report which will
> calculate unrealized gains for you.
> Your best bet is to reevaluate periodically using the usual balance sheet.
>
> On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 06:28, Chary Chary  wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> thank you for help, but I just can't make it work.
>>
>> I try a very simple setup:
>>
>> Main currency - Euro
>>
>> 1000 USD are moved to checking Account at the beginning of the period.
>>
>> Exchange rate at the beginning - 1 USD costs 1 Euro
>>
>> Middle of the year it changes - 1 USD costs 2 Euro
>>
>> No transactions
>>
>> Net Worth Barchart  correctly shows increase is Net Worth throughout
>> the year. However Income statement report does not show any traces on why
>> net wort has increased now.
>>
>> Based on my understanding of the Tutorial on multiple currency accounting
>> (
>> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html ) I would
>> expect, that the statement would include line:
>>
>> Unrealized gain due to USD/Euro exchange rate  - 1000 Euro  or something
>> similar
>>
>>
>> Any ideas on how to achieve this with Gnucash?
>>
>> For illustration I have created simple document with screenshots as well
>> my
>> test file
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T3KEhAOkkytyW1Dne0vVs259cv0WxtfK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 1:02 AM Chary Chary  wrote:
>>
>> > Hello everybody,
>> >
>> > I just started learning gnucash with the goal to depart from my from my
>> > Excel-based bookkeeping system with pivot tables, so forgive me if I ask
>> > stupid question. i think I read pretty much all of the help file, but
>> still
>> > didn't understand whether the following is possible:
>> >
>> > I am just wondering  whether there is a cashflow-like report which shows
>> > also realized and unrealized gains for certain period
>> >
>> > What exactly I mean by this:
>> >
>> > Say at the beginning of the year I have produced a Balance Sheet report.
>> > This report shows how much assets I have, which liabilities and delta
>> > between them. Suppose at begging of the year I had checking accounts in
>> USD
>> > and Euro and some stock.
>> > Throughout the year I was getting salary, paying expenses, at the same
>> > time exchange rate was changing, stock price was changing etc. My be I
>> sold
>> > some stock, moved money between USD and Euro accounts
>> >
>> > Now at the end of the year I have produced a new balance sheet.
>> >
>> > So, I want to be able to explain a delta between a balance sheet at the
>> > beginning of the ear and at the end.
>> >
>> > E.g.:
>> >
>> > I got so much salary
>> > I paid so much costs
>> >
>> > But also:
>> > Lost so much due to exchange rate change
>> > Gained to much due to stock price increase etc.
>> >
>> > So, effectively I need to be able to drill down in the delta in Balance
>> > Sheet report

Re: [GNC] Help! Decimal point won't enter; description freezes

[Colin Law]

Have a look in the gnucash trace file to see if there is anything of note there.

Colin

On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 at 11:53, Finbar Mahon  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Using - Version: 3.4
> Build ID: 3.4+ (2018-12-30)
>
> On Windows 10 Home, version 1803, on a Lenovo PC
>
> Entering data in a bank account, exisiting, not new.
>
> Entering description, freezes, won't move on; then, if it does, entering
> amount won't take the decimal point.
>
> This does not happen for every entry, but when it does it is irritating,
> sometimes the work around is to delete the transaction and retry, but
> not always.
>
> Finbar
>
> ___
> gnucash-user mailing list
> gnucash-user@gnucash.org
> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe:
> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user
> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see 
> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information.
> -
> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies.
> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All.
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Re: [GNC] Cashflow-like report to show realized and unrealiz

[Chary Chary]

David,

but the fact is, that gnucash already shows changes due to unrealized
gains  in balance sheet report. It shows all the assets based on the
exchange rate at that moment.

It also shows change in the Net Worth report.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1T3KEhAOkkytyW1Dne0vVs259cv0WxtfK

But there is no report, which explains delta between balance sheet report.
Isn't it strange?

Well at least you gave me one reason - because it is related to
accountancy, which I assume is related to taxes. It is probably not
reasonable to tax somebody on the unrealized gain.

But as a normal person, I would want to be able to dig into the delta
between 2 balance sheet reports, even though I am not paying tax over it.
Is this too much to expect?

Regards.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 1:47 PM David T.  wrote:

> IANAA, but as I understand it, gnucash doesn't track unrealized gains well
> mostly because traditional accounting isn't focused on unrealized gains.
> I'm told that accountants want to be certain that the *amount* of what you
> have is accurate. The value of that is less interesting.
>
>
> Honestly, the deeper you dig in that hole, the crazier it seems to get.
> Value as determined by whom? At what time? In what jurisdiction? In which
> currency? At what exchange rate? All of these will affect a valuation that
> ultimately is a fantasy. Just ask any art collector...
>
>
> None of it is real until someone pays for it-- and then you have a
> transaction to record it.
>
>
> David
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 15:50, Chary Chary
>  wrote:
> Christopher,
>
> thanks.
>
> But I must say, I still have a sneaky feeling, that I may be missing
> something, because I just don't understand how people who deal with several
> currencies and who have stock can possibly live without such report, which
> would show unrealized gains.
>
> Without report with unrealized gains you have a situation, that you have
> some balance at the beginning, balance at the end, but you have no report,
> which would show how you got from balance at the beginning to balance at
> the end. Even though all your individual transactions are balanced, if you
> add them all together they will not produce a delta between balance sheets,
> in case you deal with  more then one currency or have stock / gold
> (anything).
>
> In a very simple situation:
>
> Say I want to report in EUR, but I keep money in USD. Say I have 1000 USD
> and exchange rate was 1:1 at the beginning.
> So, starting balance sheet will say, that I have 1000 EUR
> Then exchange rate changed and now 1 USD costs 2 EUR. So, all of a sudden
> balance sheet at the closing will show, that I now have 2000 EUR.
> But how did happen?
> I would then expect some line, saying something like: "unrealized gain due
> to USD/EUR" exchange rate changes"  - 1000 EURO.
>
> The same applies to stock changes.
>
> Am I talking some nonsense? How do people manage their finance without such
> analysis in our modern world?
>
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 1:49 PM Christopher Lam  >
> wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately there is *no* income statement type report which will
> > calculate unrealized gains for you.
> > Your best bet is to reevaluate periodically using the usual balance
> sheet.
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 06:28, Chary Chary  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> thank you for help, but I just can't make it work.
> >>
> >> I try a very simple setup:
> >>
> >> Main currency - Euro
> >>
> >> 1000 USD are moved to checking Account at the beginning of the period.
> >>
> >> Exchange rate at the beginning - 1 USD costs 1 Euro
> >>
> >> Middle of the year it changes - 1 USD costs 2 Euro
> >>
> >> No transactions
> >>
> >> Net Worth Barchart  correctly shows increase is Net Worth throughout
> >> the year. However Income statement report does not show any traces on
> why
> >> net wort has increased now.
> >>
> >> Based on my understanding of the Tutorial on multiple currency
> accounting
> >> (
> >> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html ) I
> would
> >> expect, that the statement would include line:
> >>
> >> Unrealized gain due to USD/Euro exchange rate  - 1000 Euro  or something
> >> similar
> >>
> >>
> >> Any ideas on how to achieve this with Gnucash?
> >>
> >> For illustration I have created simple document with screenshots as well
> >> my
> >> test file
> >>
> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T3KEhAOkkytyW1Dne0vVs259cv0WxtfK
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 1:02 AM Chary Chary  wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hello everybody,
> >> >
> >> > I just started learning gnucash with the goal to depart from my from
> my
> >> > Excel-based bookkeeping system with pivot tables, so forgive me if I
> ask
> >> > stupid question. i think I read pretty much all of the help file, but
> >> still
> >> > didn't understand whether the following is possible:
> >> >
> >> > I am just wondering  whether there is a cashflow-like report which
> shows
> >> > also realized and unrealized gains for certai

Re: [GNC] Cashflow-like report to show realized and unrealized gains / balance sheet delta report

[David Carlson]

Chary,

There are some reports that do show unrealized gains, including the Balance
sheet report, but as I stated in my first post you need to adjust the
detailed settings carefully to get exactly the numbers you want.

Unfortunately, I am not the best person to help you as I have not migrated
to release 3.4, which has reports that are changed from those in earlier
releases.

David Carlson

On Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 4:21 AM Chary Chary  wrote:

> Christopher,
>
> thanks.
>
> But I must say, I still have a sneaky feeling, that I may be missing
> something, because I just don't understand how people who deal with several
> currencies and who have stock can possibly live without such report, which
> would show unrealized gains.
>
> Without report with unrealized gains you have a situation, that you have
> some balance at the beginning, balance at the end, but you have no report,
> which would show how you got from balance at the beginning to balance at
> the end. Even though all your individual transactions are balanced, if you
> add them all together they will not produce a delta between balance sheets,
> in case you deal with  more then one currency or have stock / gold
> (anything).
>
> In a very simple situation:
>
> Say I want to report in EUR, but I keep money in USD. Say I have 1000 USD
> and exchange rate was 1:1 at the beginning.
> So, starting balance sheet will say, that I have 1000 EUR
> Then exchange rate changed and now 1 USD costs 2 EUR. So, all of a sudden
> balance sheet at the closing will show, that I now have 2000 EUR.
> But how did happen?
> I would then expect some line, saying something like: "unrealized gain due
> to USD/EUR" exchange rate changes"  - 1000 EURO.
>
> The same applies to stock changes.
>
> Am I talking some nonsense? How do people manage their finance without such
> analysis in our modern world?
>
> On Tue, Feb 26, 2019 at 1:49 PM Christopher Lam  >
> wrote:
>
> > Unfortunately there is *no* income statement type report which will
> > calculate unrealized gains for you.
> > Your best bet is to reevaluate periodically using the usual balance
> sheet.
> >
> > On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 06:28, Chary Chary  wrote:
> >
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> thank you for help, but I just can't make it work.
> >>
> >> I try a very simple setup:
> >>
> >> Main currency - Euro
> >>
> >> 1000 USD are moved to checking Account at the beginning of the period.
> >>
> >> Exchange rate at the beginning - 1 USD costs 1 Euro
> >>
> >> Middle of the year it changes - 1 USD costs 2 Euro
> >>
> >> No transactions
> >>
> >> Net Worth Barchart  correctly shows increase is Net Worth throughout
> >> the year. However Income statement report does not show any traces on
> why
> >> net wort has increased now.
> >>
> >> Based on my understanding of the Tutorial on multiple currency
> accounting
> >> (
> >> https://www.mathstat.dal.ca/~selinger/accounting/tutorial.html ) I
> would
> >> expect, that the statement would include line:
> >>
> >> Unrealized gain due to USD/Euro exchange rate  - 1000 Euro  or something
> >> similar
> >>
> >>
> >> Any ideas on how to achieve this with Gnucash?
> >>
> >> For illustration I have created simple document with screenshots as well
> >> my
> >> test file
> >>
> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T3KEhAOkkytyW1Dne0vVs259cv0WxtfK
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 1:02 AM Chary Chary  wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hello everybody,
> >> >
> >> > I just started learning gnucash with the goal to depart from my from
> my
> >> > Excel-based bookkeeping system with pivot tables, so forgive me if I
> ask
> >> > stupid question. i think I read pretty much all of the help file, but
> >> still
> >> > didn't understand whether the following is possible:
> >> >
> >> > I am just wondering  whether there is a cashflow-like report which
> shows
> >> > also realized and unrealized gains for certain period
> >> >
> >> > What exactly I mean by this:
> >> >
> >> > Say at the beginning of the year I have produced a Balance Sheet
> report.
> >> > This report shows how much assets I have, which liabilities and delta
> >> > between them. Suppose at begging of the year I had checking accounts
> in
> >> USD
> >> > and Euro and some stock.
> >> > Throughout the year I was getting salary, paying expenses, at the same
> >> > time exchange rate was changing, stock price was changing etc. My be I
> >> sold
> >> > some stock, moved money between USD and Euro accounts
> >> >
> >> > Now at the end of the year I have produced a new balance sheet.
> >> >
> >> > So, I want to be able to explain a delta between a balance sheet at
> the
> >> > beginning of the ear and at the end.
> >> >
> >> > E.g.:
> >> >
> >> > I got so much salary
> >> > I paid so much costs
> >> >
> >> > But also:
> >> > Lost so much due to exchange rate change
> >> > Gained to much due to stock price increase etc.
> >> >
> >> > So, effectively I need to be able to drill down in the delta in
> Balance
> >> > Sheet report
> >> >
> >> > Rega

Re: [GNC] Accounting for gold coins

[Adrien Monteleone]

Gary,

1. Turn on Trading Accounts.

File > Properties > Accounts > Use Trading Accounts

2. Set full transaction view options. (I find this helps to see everything 
about a transaction and to better understand double-entry)

View > Transactions Journal (optionally, View > Double Line)

3. Switch to formal accounting labels (again, helps to understand double-entry, 
the non-formal terms can get confusing I find)

Preferences > Accounts > Use Formal Accounting Labels

4. Set up your online quotes

a. If you have not already done so, read the relevant sections of the 
Help Manual
 * https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/tool-price.html
 * 
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/tool-security-edit.html

b. Follow the instructions in the Help manual to setup Online Price 
Retrieval
 * 
https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-help/acct-create.html#Online-price-setup
 * get your Alpha Vantage API key, and enter it in the Preferences > 
Online Quotes section

5. Add XAU as a Currency in the Price Editor

You can choose Bid, Ask, or Last as a price type, also available are: 
’Net’ which I’m not sure of, and ‘Unknown’ which I can’t fathom the purpose 
for. I went with ‘Last’ because that is what I had been tracking for years 
before I started using GnuCash, but ‘Bid’ is closest to what you will get if 
you sell on that day. (‘Bid' and ‘Ask' aren’t always available, ‘Last’ is 
reliable)

*note* XAU & XAG are spot prices of 1 ounce of metal. (XPT and XPD are 
available as well) But this does not mean the price quoted is what to expect to 
receive or pay. Rather, these are based on a 1 Kilogram contract (32.1507 Troy 
ounces) for Gold, or a 1000 Troy ounce contract for Silver. But it is likely 
the best approximation absent an actual buying/selling price from a real-world 
transaction.

You can always enter your own price quotes in the Price Editor manually 
if you like. (or you are having technical difficulties retrieving them)

6. Create your Asset holding account

You can place this in the Asset tree where you want, but for something 
more formal, I suggest:

Assets:Current Assets:Other (in my case, I labeled ‘Other’ as ‘Metals & 
Collectables’)

You’ll likely want to make that a Placeholder account so you don’t put 
any transactions in it and create sub accounts for each metal type:

Assets:Current Assets:Metals & Collectables:Gold Bullion
Assets:Current Assets:Metals & Collectables:Gold Numismatics
Assets:Current Assets:Metals & Collectables:Silver Bullion
Assets:Current Assets:Metals & Collectables:Silver Numismatics
etc.

Set this account as type ‘Cash’
Set the currency to XAU (or other metal as needed) for the bullion 
accounts.

You don’t need separate accounts for each form of bullion as bullion is 
valued all the same. (a bar or ingot is the same as a bullion coin for example) 
I do however set my Description or Notes to reflect what I actually purchased. 
(bars, Eagles, etc.) This allows me to do Transaction Reports to show those 
items if I wish.

For Numismatics, I set those accounts to my home currency and book them 
at actual purchase price. I don’t estimate any ‘unrealized gain’ on them as 
there is no way to tell what they might fetch at sale. (as a numismatic) If you 
want to track these as bullion instead, you can just lump them in the other 
account entered as their own fractions/multiples of metal.

7. Enter your Opening Balance

This is for any holdings prior to the date you want to start the 
account, usually the opening date of your file

a. Enter the amount of metal in ounces as a debit assigned to this 
account (already listed by default), using decimals as needed. (if you had a 
1-kilo bar, you’d enter XAU 32.1507 as the amount)
b. Assign the balancing split as a credit in your home currency to the 
Equity:Opening Balances account
c. When you hit [Enter] GnuCash will dutifully create the additional 
trading account splits to balance with your book’s home currency.

Here’s a generic 1oz. example using yesterday’s last price of 
$1328.67412 USD:

Dr. Assets:Current Assets:Metals & Collectables:Gold1.00
Dr. Trading:CURRENCY:USD$1328.67
Cr. Equity:Opening Balances 
$1328.67
Cr. Trading:CURRENCY:XAU
1.00

*note* due to the messy fractions, when you enter the credit to Equity 
and hit [Enter] GnuCash will more than likely give you a pop up asking you to 
confirm the currency transfer. (technically, that is what you are doing, 
transferring one currency asset to another) At the bottom of this window are 
two options: Exchange Rate & Debit Amount. You’ll want to choose De

Re: [GNC] Cashflow-like report to show realized and unrealiz

[csingley]

David wrote
> IANAA, but as I understand it, gnucash doesn't track unrealized gains well
> mostly because traditional accounting isn't focused on unrealized gains.
> I'm told that accountants want to be certain that the *amount* of what you
> have is accurate. The value of that is less interesting.

GAAP care very intensely about valuing assets and unrealized gains.  For
financial assets, with very limited exceptions, mark to market is the law of
the land.  No CPA will attest financial statements that don't fair-value
financial assets.


David wrote
> Honestly, the deeper you dig in that hole, the crazier it seems to get.
> Value as determined by whom? At what time? In what jurisdiction? In which
> currency? At what exchange rate? All of these will affect a valuation that
> ultimately is a fantasy. Just ask any art collector...

A yeah, get you some  FAS 157   
boyee!!

FASB in fact prescribes a fair-value hierarchy classifying the degree of
sketchiness of your valuations.

You want crazy?  How about those investment banks booking unrealized gains
during the 2008 financial crisis because their outstanding bonds were
plummeting in price... solid Level 1 valuations!! ... and FAS 157 let them
elect to fair-value their *liabilities*, not just their assets.

The rabbit hole can indeed get pretty deep down there at Level 3, but OP is
asking about plain vanilla Level 1 assets (currency & marketable
securities).


David wrote
> None of it is real until someone pays for it-- and then you have a
> transaction to record it.

You are describing the perspective of cash-basis accounting, which is what
we use GnuCash for ... it's useful for things like budgeting & taxes.

GAAP is accrual accounting, and a foundational principle is that the
earnings process is divorced from cash flows.  Noncash transactions tend to
occupy a big chunk of the ledger.  If you want your balance sheet to present
assets at fair value rather than historical cost, you need unrealized gains
to make your income statement tie out to the balance sheet as it rolls
forward.

What this looks like is that, on your chart of accounts, a financial asset
has subaccounts for cost basis and unrealized gain/loss.  There's an
unrealized gain/loss account under income, too, along with a realized
gain/loss account.  When you fair-value an asset, the transaction is split
between the asset subaccount and the income subaccount.  When you close out
a financial asset, you Dr/Cr the unrealized gain/loss account on the income
statement against the realized gain/loss account.  This is in the addition
to splits wiping out the asset subaccounts against
cash/equivalents/receivables.

What OP is running into is a design limitation of GnuCash - it only handles
a single accounting basis, and it is geared toward cash basis, so it's good
for analysis of those types of problem (cash flow, realized gains, etc.)

A long time ago I tried setting up GAAP chart of accounts for securities in
GnuCash, and it was super annoying to work with b/c the lack of automation.

In actual accounting practice, people who need GAAP financial statements
(e.g. anybody who's accounting for investments) set up a chart of accounts
geared toward GAAP, and keep the ledger on that basis.  Then they push a
series of adjusting transactions to transform to tax basis, and another
series of adjusting transactions to transform to statement of cash flows.

Financial software packages tend to implement this functionality in reports
by flagging certain categories of income-statement accounts as with "ignore
this for taxable income".  It gets more complicated for cash flow.

I'm not an accountant, either, but I do have to deal with this stuff, and
no, GnuCash doesn't implement the needed functionality.  It's a fairly
glaring omission if you care about investments, but the amount of work
needed to relax this constraint would be pretty significant, and I don't
think most people care enough to make it happen.  I mean, hell, I've written
my own library to calculate capital gains, and I haven't yet cared enough to
make that happen, either.  You get in hot water with the tax authorities if
your cash-basis accounting isn't just right, but unless you have financial
reporting obligations, the same is not true of GAAP accounting so we all
tend to concentrate development effort on cash basis, and end up using
brokerage statements and spreadsheets or scripts for tracking personal
investments.
 
  On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 15:50, Chary Chary wrote:  
Christopher-

thanks.

But I must say, I still have a sneaky feeling, that I may be missing
something, because I just don't understand how people who deal with several
currencies and who have stock can possibly live without such report, which
would show unrealized gains.

Without report with unrealized gains you have a situation, that you have
some balance at the beginning, balance at the end, but you have no report,
which woul

Re: [GNC] Cashflow-like report to show realized and unrealized gains / balance sheet delta report

[Adrien Monteleone]

If the gain is unrealized, then the account balance has not changed.

If you physically (or in a bank account) have USD 1000 at the beginning of the 
year because you traded EUR 1000 at a 1:1 rate, and at the end of the year, 
have not done anything with that USD 1000, you still only have USD 1000.

GnuCash might value this at EUR 2000 for the purpose of balancing your books, 
but what you actually hold has not changed. Your bank isn’t going to report 
that you now have EUR 2000 instead of USD 1000.

Now, if you trade that USD 1000 back to EUR at the new rate, then and only then 
will you really have EUR 2000 - a realized gain.

If you are using multiple currencies properly, the USD account should reflect 
USD 1000, not EUR 2000.

If you want to see why the GnuCash balance sheet might reflect a valuation 
change on a currency or commodity, turn on Trading Accounts, select them in the 
report options and also choose the option to show exchange rates.

If you look at the exchange rates for the end of last year balance sheet and 
new balance sheet, they difference will reflect the value assigned to the 
’Trading Gain/Loss’ line.

Keep in mind, except for very special circumstances, for most people, 
‘unrealized gains’ are simply a ‘what if’ level of thinking. They do not belong 
in your books. Only actual realized gains are reflected there. (even being 
required to ‘mark to market’ would be handled by a transaction to realize any 
gain/loss)

Regards,
Adrien

> On Feb 27, 2019, at 4:18 AM, Chary Chary  wrote:
> 
> Christopher,
> 
> thanks.
> 
> But I must say, I still have a sneaky feeling, that I may be missing
> something, because I just don't understand how people who deal with several
> currencies and who have stock can possibly live without such report, which
> would show unrealized gains.
> 
> Without report with unrealized gains you have a situation, that you have
> some balance at the beginning, balance at the end, but you have no report,
> which would show how you got from balance at the beginning to balance at
> the end. Even though all your individual transactions are balanced, if you
> add them all together they will not produce a delta between balance sheets,
> in case you deal with  more then one currency or have stock / gold
> (anything).
> 
> In a very simple situation:
> 
> Say I want to report in EUR, but I keep money in USD. Say I have 1000 USD
> and exchange rate was 1:1 at the beginning.
> So, starting balance sheet will say, that I have 1000 EUR
> Then exchange rate changed and now 1 USD costs 2 EUR. So, all of a sudden
> balance sheet at the closing will show, that I now have 2000 EUR.
> But how did happen?
> I would then expect some line, saying something like: "unrealized gain due
> to USD/EUR" exchange rate changes"  - 1000 EURO.
> 
> The same applies to stock changes.
> 
> Am I talking some nonsense? How do people manage their finance without such
> analysis in our modern world?


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[GNC] Business Feature Question

[David T. via gnucash-user]

Hello,

Long time user with a question regarding the business features and grants. 
Specifically, I am setting up a business file for a business that receives 
grant monies from different organizations in exchange for various services.

I’ve set up the granting agencies as customers in the books, and created jobs 
for each grant. I have set up the grant payment as a customer invoice in A/R 
against an Income:Grants account for the full amount of the grant, and paid 
this invoice with the money from the agency. Now, GnuCash shows the business 
has received this money from this agency. Setting the grants up as customers 
then allows me to use vendor bills to pay subcontractors against this customer 
job.

My first question is a general one: does this pass a sanity test, or is there 
some other more sane way to manage this? 

My second general question is, if I should wish to track and assign specific 
expenses to specific grants, what is the best approach? Subaccounts in the 
checking account for each grant’s money? I am imagining this would be best, but 
welcome other ideas.

Finally, if there is a bank fee assessed against the incoming funds along the 
way to the checking account, what is the best way to handle this? I creeated 
the invoice in the original amount, paid the full amount, and then edited the 
payment record to add a split for the bank fee and change the amount arriving 
in the checking account. I am unsure if this is the correct way to handle this, 
however—especially since I know I’ve read that editing the A/P & A/R accounts 
is considered Bad. Did I destroy my books by doing this?

TIA,
David
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Re: [GNC] Cashflow-like report to show realized and unrealized gains / balance sheet delta report

[csingley]

Adrien Monteleone-2 wrote
> Keep in mind, except for very special circumstances, for most people,
> ‘unrealized gains’ are simply a ‘what if’ level of thinking. They do not
> belong in your books. Only actual realized gains are reflected there.

I don't think "owning investments" counts as very special circumstances...
and for investments, carrying them at historical cost is really the "what
if" thinking.  The entire profession of accountancy has risen up with one
voice to declare loudly that financial assets are worth what you can sell
them for today, and anchoring on your cost basis is bad accounting that
leads to bad decisions.  In fact, Deutsche Bank is currently being widely
shamed in the financial press for just this very sin (refusing to write down
some horrible mortgage deals until they actually disposed of them years
later).

If you buy a stock, and it becomes worthless, you are *actually poorer* even
if you don't realize the loss.  Conversely, try telling long-time Berkshire
Hathaway stockholders that their position deserves a 95% haircut, even if
they can sell their BRK stock today and exchange it for bonds that would pay
an annual income equal to their cost basis in BRK.  Guess they'd better
postpone retirement until they sell their stock... "Using this one weird
accounting trick, he increased his safe retirement withdrawal 10x with the
click of a mouse!  CFPs hate him!!"

Looking only at realized gains can be fine if you just want to report *what
happened*, as for paying taxes.  However, if you want financial reports that
help you decide *what to do*, it's unhelpful to convince yourself that
unrealized gains don't exist.

It's not really "what if" to examine your winners & losers, and decide to
rebalance your portfolio accordingly.  It's not really "what if" to look at
how much in unrealized losses you have to offset realized gains in order to
manage your tax bill.  These are not weird corner cases, they are primary
concerns of the users of these financial reports (like the OP).

They're just a pain to implement.  They're not wrong-headed.


Adrien Monteleone-2 wrote
> If the gain is unrealized, then the account balance has not changed.
> 
> If you physically (or in a bank account) have USD 1000 at the beginning of
> the year because you traded EUR 1000 at a 1:1 rate, and at the end of the
> year, have not done anything with that USD 1000, you still only have USD
> 1000.
> 
> GnuCash might value this at EUR 2000 for the purpose of balancing your
> books, but what you actually hold has not changed. Your bank isn’t going
> to report that you now have EUR 2000 instead of USD 1000.
> 
> Now, if you trade that USD 1000 back to EUR at the new rate, then and only
> then will you really have EUR 2000 - a realized gain.
> 
> If you are using multiple currencies properly, the USD account should
> reflect USD 1000, not EUR 2000.
> 
> If you want to see why the GnuCash balance sheet might reflect a valuation
> change on a currency or commodity, turn on Trading Accounts, select them
> in the report options and also choose the option to show exchange rates.
> 
> If you look at the exchange rates for the end of last year balance sheet
> and new balance sheet, they difference will reflect the value assigned to
> the ’Trading Gain/Loss’ line.
> 
> Keep in mind, except for very special circumstances, for most people,
> ‘unrealized gains’ are simply a ‘what if’ level of thinking. They do not
> belong in your books. Only actual realized gains are reflected there.
> (even being required to ‘mark to market’ would be handled by a transaction
> to realize any gain/loss)
> 
> Regards,
> Adrien
> 
>> On Feb 27, 2019, at 4:18 AM, Chary Chary <

> chary314@

> > wrote:
>> 
>> Christopher,
>> 
>> thanks.
>> 
>> But I must say, I still have a sneaky feeling, that I may be missing
>> something, because I just don't understand how people who deal with
>> several
>> currencies and who have stock can possibly live without such report,
>> which
>> would show unrealized gains.
>> 
>> Without report with unrealized gains you have a situation, that you have
>> some balance at the beginning, balance at the end, but you have no
>> report,
>> which would show how you got from balance at the beginning to balance at
>> the end. Even though all your individual transactions are balanced, if
>> you
>> add them all together they will not produce a delta between balance
>> sheets,
>> in case you deal with  more then one currency or have stock / gold
>> (anything).
>> 
>> In a very simple situation:
>> 
>> Say I want to report in EUR, but I keep money in USD. Say I have 1000 USD
>> and exchange rate was 1:1 at the beginning.
>> So, starting balance sheet will say, that I have 1000 EUR
>> Then exchange rate changed and now 1 USD costs 2 EUR. So, all of a sudden
>> balance sheet at the closing will show, that I now have 2000 EUR.
>> But how did happen?
>> I would then expect some line, saying something like: "unrealized gain
>> due
>> to USD/E

[GNC] Bouncy Check

[subscriptions]

Took a payment (check) from customer and it bounced. It was actually a 
mistake at the bank in printing the check #'s. They are sending me 
another payment. How do you handle this transaction?


I assume somehow you need to unpost the last payment, Add bounce charge 
to invoice and then accept new payment.


Im not finding how to do this though.


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Re: [GNC] Business Feature Question

[Adrien Monteleone]

Not sure you really need to use invoices and customers here, but if it works...

Are these recurring grants from the same sources for the same purposes? It 
might make more sense then. I just don’t see it for one-offs.

My understanding of ‘jobs’ per previous list discussion is that ‘job’ is 
probably the wrong term. It’s more like a ‘purchase order’ which aggregates 
line items ordered from a vendor. Because of this, I never was able to use the 
feature so I’m not sure how ‘chargebacks’ work. If anything, I’d think charging 
items from a vendor to a customer would be possible, but not the other way 
around.

You can have the same ‘job title' for both a customer and a vendor, but if I 
recall correctly, they are two separate jobs and are not linked to each other.

Derek, who wrote the feature, explained it to me in this thread: 
https://lists.gnucash.org/pipermail/gnucash-user/2018-August/079310.html. 
(start there, total of about 4-5 messages, I don’t think I got around to filing 
that bug report for renaming, will have to check)

As an answer to the second question, and possibly address the first at the same 
time, I’d say it might be simpler to use the Notes or split Memos to 
‘categorize’ your expenses per grant. Which you use, would depend on if a 
single transaction applies to one grant or might apply to multiple grants.

I can see though how using virtual sub-accounts of checking might be useful for 
running reports, but again, this would be part of the tree to maintain that 
might not be necessary since you can filter a transaction report on Notes and 
Memos.

On the last question, I do this frequently for various reasons. I always edit 
from the account the money is coming from/going to (never within the A/P or A/R 
registers themselves), usually the cash account in my case, and *avoid* editing 
any split in the transaction with ‘payment’ in the Action field as this is what 
is keyed for the business features. If you need to edit one of those splits, 
then edit the payment via the right-click context menu. (I say avoid because on 
a few rare occasions of trying to fix a lot mess in one of those accounts, I 
did edit them, though in hind-sight I could have managed with the ‘Edit 
payment’ function as well)

Regards,
Adrien

> On Feb 27, 2019, at 11:14 AM, David T. via gnucash-user 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Long time user with a question regarding the business features and grants. 
> Specifically, I am setting up a business file for a business that receives 
> grant monies from different organizations in exchange for various services.
> 
> I’ve set up the granting agencies as customers in the books, and created jobs 
> for each grant. I have set up the grant payment as a customer invoice in A/R 
> against an Income:Grants account for the full amount of the grant, and paid 
> this invoice with the money from the agency. Now, GnuCash shows the business 
> has received this money from this agency. Setting the grants up as customers 
> then allows me to use vendor bills to pay subcontractors against this 
> customer job.
> 
> My first question is a general one: does this pass a sanity test, or is there 
> some other more sane way to manage this? 
> 
> My second general question is, if I should wish to track and assign specific 
> expenses to specific grants, what is the best approach? Subaccounts in the 
> checking account for each grant’s money? I am imagining this would be best, 
> but welcome other ideas.
> 
> Finally, if there is a bank fee assessed against the incoming funds along the 
> way to the checking account, what is the best way to handle this? I creeated 
> the invoice in the original amount, paid the full amount, and then edited the 
> payment record to add a split for the bank fee and change the amount arriving 
> in the checking account. I am unsure if this is the correct way to handle 
> this, however—especially since I know I’ve read that editing the A/P & A/R 
> accounts is considered Bad. Did I destroy my books by doing this?
> 
> TIA,
> David
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Re: [GNC] Bouncy Check

[Adrien Monteleone]

Select the payment transaction in your asset register. (checking/cash, wherever 
it appears)

Then choose Transaction > Add Reversing Transaction

This will reverse the payment with a reversing transaction and de-couple the 
original payment from the invoice.

Edit your invoice to reflect your bounce charge, re-post (even with original 
date if you want for proper aging) and then process the new payment.

*The bank is still charging you for their mistake?

Regards,
Adrien

> On Feb 27, 2019, at 1:08 PM, subscriptions  
> wrote:
> 
> Took a payment (check) from customer and it bounced. It was actually a 
> mistake at the bank in printing the check #'s. They are sending me another 
> payment. How do you handle this transaction?
> 
> I assume somehow you need to unpost the last payment, Add bounce charge to 
> invoice and then accept new payment.
> 
> Im not finding how to do this though.

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Re: [GNC] Bouncy Check

[Adrien Monteleone]

Your welcome.

I forgot to include the step of unposting the invoice in order to edit it.

Also, please be sure to always copy the list on all replies so everyone can 
benefit from the discussion. (and resolution of the question)

Regards,
Adrien

> On Feb 27, 2019, at 2:19 PM, subscriptions  
> wrote:
> 
> On 2/27/19 3:15 PM, Adrien Monteleone wrote:
>> Select the payment transaction in your asset register. (checking/cash, 
>> wherever it appears)
>> 
>> Then choose Transaction > Add Reversing Transaction
>> 
>> This will reverse the payment with a reversing transaction and de-couple the 
>> original payment from the invoice.
>> 
>> Edit your invoice to reflect your bounce charge, re-post (even with original 
>> date if you want for proper aging) and then process the new payment.
>> 
>> *The bank is still charging you for their mistake?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Adrien
>> 
>>> On Feb 27, 2019, at 1:08 PM, subscriptions 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Took a payment (check) from customer and it bounced. It was actually a 
>>> mistake at the bank in printing the check #'s. They are sending me another 
>>> payment. How do you handle this transaction?
>>> 
>>> I assume somehow you need to unpost the last payment, Add bounce charge to 
>>> invoice and then accept new payment.
>>> 
>>> Im not finding how to do this though.
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> 


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Re: [GNC] Business Feature Question

[David Cousens]

David,

Depending on who the grant is from and conditions of the grant and local
legislation, it may be treated either as capital or income.

Are you required to invoice the granting agency before they pay the grant
money to you? 

If not, then there is no real need to use the business features and A/R
process. You can simply handle this as a debit to your bank account and a
credit to an appropriate income account. However if using the business
features is convenient then there is no problem using them. You could raise
the invoice when advised the grant has been awarded with the payment
recorded when the money is received even if you do not actually post the
invoice.

If you are accounting on an accrual basis and not a cash basis, you may want
to consult your accountant about when the grant money is considered to be
earned:
   when the grant is awarded;
   when you are paid the money or 
   when you fulfill the obligations of the grant. 

This could have implications for taxation for instance and will depend on
legislation in your jurisdiction.

David Cousens



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David Cousens
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Sent from: http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html
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Re: [GNC] GnuCash Android is dead?

[Ngewi Fet]

Hi GTI,
Progress is slow due to personal circumstances of developers in the core
team.
We have to prioritize the very limited resources available at the moment.
But the GitHub issues are being read.

It is best to report issues directly on GitHub (or the developer mailing
list:  gnucash-android-...@googlegroups.com )

Cheers,
Ngewi

On Mon 18. Feb 2019 at 03:02, GTI .H  wrote:

> I know the GnuCash Android app (GA) is totally independent of GnuCash
> Desktop, but here it is quite likely to find users and news.
>
> I have not seen anything new on the GA website (
> https://github.com/codinguser/gnucash-android) and the Ngewi Fet
> codinguser does not respond to months.
>
> I'm worried. 🤔
> Does anyone know what's going on with the GnuCash Android project?
>
>
> --
> Regards
> GTI
>
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