Re: [gentoo-dev] A constructive reommendation on stablity improvemt

[Igor]

Hello Tim,

Sunday, August 10, 2014, 4:41:09 AM, you wrote:

I have no doubts that it could be done. 

What I'm perplexed about... 

The project consists of 3 major parts:

Reporting (portage -> Database <- Processing) 
Database   
Processing

Wouldn't it be logical to have Data Reporting unit working to some extent 
before everything else?
It's difficult to code imagining the most important part of the game - portage 
Reporting unit.

Database and Processing units both would require an expensive hardware to work, 
there should 
be some kind invitation from portage to spend a few thousand bucks. Not to 
mention time.

If the invitation in Portage is there a lot of people can try out their own 
Database and Processing 
units. Sounds fair to me.


FWIW:  I have worked on a project for years where exception reporting was used 
as a "pump handle" for Bugzilla.  It can be done;  the trick is getting good 
data *in* and automating recognition of which failures are the same failure, 
doing NOTHING until some threshold number of failures are logged, and having a 
way to flag certain flavors of report as known-bogus.  Here is an example 
failure report and resulting bug report:

http://statistics.netbeans.org/exceptions/detail.do?id=205871
https://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=239261

That being said, it was done for ONE language in ONE application, where the 
error messages were detailed, meaningful and in a standard, Java-specific 
format. 

Doing that across the multiple languages, myriad bug tracking systems 
(including none at all), for all packages anyone ever might build on Linux 
sounds like a doomed enterprise.  I'm not saying don't do it - such statistics 
might be interesting in aggregate - but don't have high hopes for it solving 
the world's problems, and plan on simply publishing those stats in a consumable 
way, promote their existence and plan on *attracting* developers and projects 
to *want* to consume those, as opposed to force-feeding every bug tracker in 
the universe, which I assure you, will not win friends.

But the bottom line is:  Write a patch.  Prototype the server-side piece.  
People respond to working code;  hypothetical discussions about what somebody 
else could or should do inevitably go nowhere.  If you write something, nobody 
can say you're not committed to it, and *everybody* will agree on what the 
thing does because they can see it, rather than guessing at what "files a bug 
report" means and getting into arguments because people are using the same 
words for different things.  You'll probably get a better sense of the problem 
space and what's easy and what's hard about it in the process, which will 
result in a better proposal.

If it's just telling other people what they ought to do, then it looks like 
you're a dilettante, and people are rightly wary of that.

-Tim





-- 
Best regards,
 Igormailto:lanthrus...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-dev] A constructive reommendation on stablity improvemt

[Igor]

Hello Kent,

Saturday, August 9, 2014, 11:49:43 PM, you wrote:

We have a lot of uncertainty even about what to send and how. It is
important for a data processor to understand what data is going to be fed 
before it's designed. 
If you have 1000 requests/second JSON parsing might be a problem and might 
require different 
solutions/hardware. 

If portage implements data the way it sees is - bad or good - that would reduce 
uncertainty and 
allow tools implemented.

OK, let's have another year for everyone to think over it.



On 10 August 2014 06:15, Igor  wrote:
Communication protocol is already there - it's HTTP, method POST
HTTP protocol is already with Python - CURL, WGET
A reliable server ready to accept data from portage is all so there - 
it's Apache web server. 


For the sake of this discussion, those protocols serve only as a channel.

You have to send some kind of data structure over that channel indicating data 
about state.

This requires the data to have a defined format, and potentially a versioning 
scheme for that format.

And not just a defined format, like JSON for instance, but a defined structure 
of JSON representation with keys and values being clearly stipulated.

You can't just send arbitrary freeform JSON to a random server and hope it 
pulls sense out of fat air.

-- 
Kent 

KENTNL - https://metacpan.org/author/KENTNL





-- 
Best regards,
 Igormailto:lanthrus...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-dev] A constructive reommendation on stablity improvemt

[Thomas Kahle]

Hi,

On 09/08/14 18:18, Igor wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Hereby the summary of my personal suggestions to increase GENTOO stability 
> and help it's maintainers 
> and developers. 
> 
> 1. make.conf
> 
>Add 
> 
>BUG_REPORT_URL  "http://";(or similar name)
>BUG_REPORT ON/OFF
>BUG_REPORT_LEVEL 
> 
>to make.conf  

Apart from the huge work to implement this, I think any automatic
reporting of build failures will not be useful due to a very bad
signal to noise ratio.  Bug wrangling will be insane.  What are
the experiences in the industry.  Is Mozilla getting anything
useful out of their automatic crash reports?

Cheers,
Thomas


-- 
Thomas Kahle
http://dev.gentoo.org/~tomka/



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[gentoo-dev] gentoo-x86 tree cleanup for 'DESCRIPTION ends with a '.' character' warnings

[Sergei Trofimovich]

Hello World!

TL;DR:
  This evening I plan to mangle ~3000 ebuilds in the main tree
  by dropping trailing '.' in all 'DESCRIPTION=' fields (except "etc." case)

Long story:

As you may know newest portage release 2.2.11
got a minor (but chatty) QA warning:
DESCRIPTION ends with a '.' character


https://github.com/gentoo/portage/commit/06637c4215d55c57517739214c6e0fd6f8f53914
https://bugs.gentoo.org/438976

About ~3000 ebuilds are affected, thus I've sketched a mangling script:

https://github.com/trofi/gentoo-qa/blob/master/check_description.sh

It is nice to use to convert all your large overlays you sync to gx86, etc.

The script does not handle case of multiline description:
DESCRIPTION="You have to
clean that yourself."

I'll mangle/commit one package at a time. Hope not to interfere with your
workflow much.

If you have any objections/thoughts please do say so.

Thanks!

-- 

  Sergei


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[gentoo-dev] Last rites: dev-python/amara

[Tiziano Müller]

# Tiziano Müller  (10 Aug 2014)
# Bundles an old (2.0.0) and vulnerable, but modified version of expat.
# Testsuite is completely broken and upstream seems to be working on the
# next rewrite instead of fixing this one. Nothing in the tree depends on it.
# Removal in a month.
dev-python/amara

[gentoo-dev] Automated Package Removal and Addition Tracker, for the week ending 2014-08-10 23h59 UTC

[Robin H. Johnson]

The attached list notes all of the packages that were added or removed
from the tree, for the week ending 2014-08-10 23h59 UTC.

Removals:
dev-vcs/gitosis 2014-08-04 04:35:46 robbat2
dev-vcs/gitosis-gentoo  2014-08-04 04:35:46 robbat2

Additions:
net-libs/txtorcon   2014-08-04 22:34:45 mrueg
dev-ruby/prawn-table2014-08-06 01:20:33 mrueg
sys-apps/cv 2014-08-06 02:43:45 zx2c4
media-libs/openctm  2014-08-07 16:50:58 amynka
sci-libs/levmar 2014-08-07 16:55:20 amynka
media-gfx/printrun  2014-08-07 17:03:47 amynka
dev-python/alabaster2014-08-10 14:35:43 idella4

--
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux Developer
E-Mail : robb...@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP   : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED  F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85
Removed Packages:
dev-vcs/gitosis,removed,robbat2,2014-08-04 04:35:46
dev-vcs/gitosis-gentoo,removed,robbat2,2014-08-04 04:35:46
Added Packages:
net-libs/txtorcon,added,mrueg,2014-08-04 22:34:45
dev-ruby/prawn-table,added,mrueg,2014-08-06 01:20:33
sys-apps/cv,added,zx2c4,2014-08-06 02:43:45
media-libs/openctm,added,amynka,2014-08-07 16:50:58
sci-libs/levmar,added,amynka,2014-08-07 16:55:20
media-gfx/printrun,added,amynka,2014-08-07 17:03:47
dev-python/alabaster,added,idella4,2014-08-10 14:35:43

Done.

Re: [gentoo-dev] A constructive reommendation on stablity improvemt

[Thomas Kahle]

On 09/08/14 21:22, Jeroen Roovers wrote:
> A better bug reporting client will not deal with all the problems of bad
> reports (and probably exacerbate that problem), but it will stop spam
> and should encourage users to file more bug reports, and would be
> based on a vetted implementation that has already addressed many of
> the concerns that your proposal would need to address from the ground
> up.

Absolutely!



-- 
Thomas Kahle
http://dev.gentoo.org/~tomka/



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Re: [gentoo-dev] gentoo-x86 tree cleanup for 'DESCRIPTION ends with a '.' character' warnings

[Bertrand Jacquin]

Hi,

On 2014-08-10 14:22, Sergei Trofimovich wrote:


The script does not handle case of multiline description:
DESCRIPTION="You have to
clean that yourself."


You could handle this by reading metadata/md5-cache/*/* instead of 
ebuild itself


But is multiline DESCRIPTION something recommended as it should contain 
a short description ?


--
Beber

[gentoo-dev] Supporting both Qt4 and Qt5 builds

[Georg Rudoy]

Hi,

I'm thinking of converting a few ebuilds (x11-libs/qwt,
dev-libs/kqoauth, net-libs/qxmpp among them) to support building with
both Qt4 and Qt5.

Should this better be done by adding the corresponding useflags (qt4
and qt5 respectively) or by slotting? The pros and cons for each, off
the top of my head:

slotting:
+ Allows having different use flags for qt4 and qt5 builds (can't
think why that would be needed in the above examples though).
- Possibility of exponential growth of the number of slots in case
slotting would be required according to some other criteria (again,
can't think why that would be needed in the above examples).
- Requires keeping two different copies of the same ebuild with
basically the same build rules, with all the consequences.

useflags:
+ Seems to be easier and doing the required trick.
+ app-text/poppler already does this.
- Enabling support for previously disabled Qt version requires
rebuilding the whole library twice.

What's your opinion on this?

I've attached the useflag-based variant as a draft.

-- 
  Georg Rudoy


kqoauth-0.98-r2.ebuild
Description: Binary data

Re: [gentoo-dev] Supporting both Qt4 and Qt5 builds

[Johannes Huber]

Am Sonntag, 10. August 2014, 14:51:45 schrieb Georg Rudoy:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm thinking of converting a few ebuilds (x11-libs/qwt,
> dev-libs/kqoauth, net-libs/qxmpp among them) to support building with
> both Qt4 and Qt5.
> 
> Should this better be done by adding the corresponding useflags (qt4
> and qt5 respectively) or by slotting? The pros and cons for each, off
> the top of my head:
> 
> slotting:
> + Allows having different use flags for qt4 and qt5 builds (can't
> think why that would be needed in the above examples though).
> - Possibility of exponential growth of the number of slots in case
> slotting would be required according to some other criteria (again,
> can't think why that would be needed in the above examples).
> - Requires keeping two different copies of the same ebuild with
> basically the same build rules, with all the consequences.
> 
> useflags:
> + Seems to be easier and doing the required trick.
> + app-text/poppler already does this.
> - Enabling support for previously disabled Qt version requires
> rebuilding the whole library twice.
> 
> What's your opinion on this?
> 
> I've attached the useflag-based variant as a draft.

Multibuild is prefered.

-- 
Johannes Huber (johu)
Gentoo Linux Developer / KDE Team
GPG Key ID F3CFD2BD

Re: [gentoo-dev] gentoo-x86 tree cleanup for 'DESCRIPTION ends with a '.' character' warnings

[William Hubbs]

On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 03:22:11PM +0300, Sergei Trofimovich wrote:
> Hello World!
> 
> TL;DR:
>   This evening I plan to mangle ~3000 ebuilds in the main tree
>   by dropping trailing '.' in all 'DESCRIPTION=' fields (except "etc." case)
> 
> Long story:
> 
> As you may know newest portage release 2.2.11
> got a minor (but chatty) QA warning:
> DESCRIPTION ends with a '.' character

Why is this a QA warning in the first place?

I don't recall a policy mandating that descriptions can't end with '.'. I
asked our QA lead about it and was told that he didn't recall that we
have an official policy about it either. Also, the devmanual never
mentions any such requirement.

If someone can point me to something I'm missing, let me know.
Otherwise, I think the warning should be removed.

William


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Re: [gentoo-dev] gentoo-x86 tree cleanup for 'DESCRIPTION ends with a '.' character' warnings

[Manuel Rüger]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 08/12/2014 03:48 AM, William Hubbs wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 03:22:11PM +0300, Sergei Trofimovich
> wrote:
>> Hello World!
>> 
>> TL;DR: This evening I plan to mangle ~3000 ebuilds in the main
>> tree by dropping trailing '.' in all 'DESCRIPTION=' fields
>> (except "etc." case)
>> 
>> Long story:
>> 
>> As you may know newest portage release 2.2.11 got a minor (but
>> chatty) QA warning: DESCRIPTION ends with a '.' character
> 
> Why is this a QA warning in the first place?
> 
> I don't recall a policy mandating that descriptions can't end with
> '.'. I asked our QA lead about it and was told that he didn't
> recall that we have an official policy about it either. Also, the
> devmanual never mentions any such requirement.
> 
> If someone can point me to something I'm missing, let me know. 
> Otherwise, I think the warning should be removed.
> 
> William
> 

These links might be helpful:

http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=06637c4215d55c57517739214c6e0fd6f8f53914

https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=438976

http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/80786


What's still missing is a patch for devmanual (if we still really want
to enforce this).


Manuel
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Re: [gentoo-dev] gentoo-x86 tree cleanup for 'DESCRIPTION ends with a '.' character' warnings

[William Hubbs]

On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 03:59:30AM +0200, Manuel Rüger wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA512
 
 *snip*

> These links might be helpful:
> 
> http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=06637c4215d55c57517739214c6e0fd6f8f53914
> 
> https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=438976
> 
> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/80786
> 
> 
> What's still missing is a patch for devmanual (if we still really want
> to enforce this).

I read the thread, and there was no concensus about making this a
repoman check. Some people thought it was a good idea, but there was a
feeling that this sort of thing is trivial and shouldn't be worried
about.

William


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Re: [gentoo-dev] gentoo-x86 tree cleanup for 'DESCRIPTION ends with a '.' character' warnings

[Tyler Pohl]

how to i get off these mailing lists?


On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 7:42 PM, William Hubbs  wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 03:59:30AM +0200, Manuel Rüger wrote:
> > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> > Hash: SHA512
>
>  *snip*
>
> > These links might be helpful:
> >
> >
> http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=06637c4215d55c57517739214c6e0fd6f8f53914
> >
> > https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=438976
> >
> > http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/80786
> >
> >
> > What's still missing is a patch for devmanual (if we still really want
> > to enforce this).
>
> I read the thread, and there was no concensus about making this a
> repoman check. Some people thought it was a good idea, but there was a
> feeling that this sort of thing is trivial and shouldn't be worried
> about.
>
> William
>



-- 
Tyler Pohl

Re: [gentoo-dev] Supporting both Qt4 and Qt5 builds

[Ben de Groot]

On 10 August 2014 18:51, Georg Rudoy <0xd34df...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm thinking of converting a few ebuilds (x11-libs/qwt,
> dev-libs/kqoauth, net-libs/qxmpp among them) to support building with
> both Qt4 and Qt5.
>
> Should this better be done by adding the corresponding useflags (qt4
> and qt5 respectively) or by slotting?
>
> What's your opinion on this?
>

The Qt team has always recommended the useflag method for packages
that support more than one major version of Qt. This is also what we
implement ourselves. So for consistency's sake, please stick with the
useflags.

-- 
Cheers,

Ben | yngwin
Gentoo developer

[gentoo-dev] Re: gentoo-x86 tree cleanup for 'DESCRIPTION ends with a '.' character' warnings

[Duncan]

[Mailed direct and to list.]

Tyler Pohl posted on Mon, 11 Aug 2014 21:20:17 -0700 as excerpted:

> how to i get off these mailing lists?

Follow the instructions, as found in the headers of every mail on the 
list including the one you replied to, or the ones on the site you 
presumably signed up from?  Seriously:

Headers:

> List-Help: 
> List-Unsubscribe: 
> List-Subscribe: 
> List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail 


Page at http://www.gentoo.org/main/en/lists.xml, clearly linked via the 
lists link on the gentoo homepage:



To unsubscribe from a list, send an empty email to:

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Note: You must use the identical address that you subscribed with to 
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-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman