Re: Helping Neo4j Release an Apache2 API for Apache Projects

[Steve Loughran]

neo4j is just a remote app in this context, right? So there'll be no classpath 
contamination?

in which case, I don't see why there'd be any worry about pulling in to the 
test/release process. I think having neo4j maintain the artifact makes sense 
from a maintenance/release process, tinkerpop can just pull it in for the 
build, and perhaps the test. 

think about how much stuff we distribute which depends on a closed source 
product -anything that works with, say, Amazon web services, or Oracle DB. the 
policy there has always been: compatible code on the asf source, build, 
distribution; recipient gets to choose their actions.

> On 30 Apr 2015, at 16:33, Marko Rodriguez  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Here are notes to peoples comments thus far:
> 
>   1. TinkerPop2 (prior to Apache) maintained all the vendor connectors. 
> This was very burdensome for the TinkerPop developers as we had to stay up to 
> date on each vendors changes. We didn't want to go down this road for 
> TinkerPop3 (now Apache).
> 
>   2. However, we are interested in providing two "reference 
> implementations" of TinkerPop. One for OLTP (Neo4j) and one for OLAP 
> (Hadoop). We think providing Neo4j and Hadoop "out of the box" is a good 
> thing for TinkerPop as it provides other vendors code to look at ("ah, thats 
> how they did transactions for Neo4j -- okay, I will copy that pattern") and 
> users a starting point ("okay, lets load my data into Neo4j by following the 
> examples in the docs.").
> 
>   3. Note that TinkerPop3 does NOT "depend" on Neo4j. neo4j-gremlin is 
> simply a parallel module that can be ":install"'d by the user if they want. 
> If the user doesn't want it, its not in their CLASSPATH, etc. Likewise for 
> hadoop-gremlin. However, in our docs, we like to show both Neo4j and Hadoop 
> as it provides more context to TinkerPop -- not just, "here is an API you can 
> use, good luck." So, if a user is using, lets say, titan-gremlin, there is 
> NOTHING "Neo4j" in their CLASSPATH, , etc. TinkerPop doesn't NEED 
> Neo4j.
>   -- you can see how hadoop-gremlin requires an :install (not something 
> that is part of TinkerPop): 
> http://tinkerpop.incubator.apache.org/docs/3.0.0.M8-incubating/#hadoop-gremlin
> 
>   4. TinkerPop is not trying to push Neo4j in order to boost Neo4j's 
> worth in any way. Realize that many of the TinkerPop contributors work for a 
> Neo4j competitor (Titan (Aurelius) -> DSE Graph (DataStax)). We are not here 
> to play "money games" but to make sure the graph community has graph 
> technology. Neo4j is an easy, stable, popular graph database with a simple 
>  and you are off.
> 
>   5. We planned on giving Neo4j neo4j-gremlin so they could release it as 
> they wish. However, this leaves a hole in our product as then we have 
> hadoop-gremlin as a reference implementation of OLAP, but no OLTP 
> counterpart. This is sorta awkward. If we gutted neo4j-gremlin, we would then 
> want to gut hadoop-gremlin…. However, we really don't want to do that. We 
> think having these two connectors available with each release makes TinkerPop 
> easier for users and vendors to adopt TinkerPop.
> 
> I hope this clears things up. Please ask more questions if not.
> 
> Thank you,
> Marko.
> 
> http://markorodriguez.com
> 
> On Apr 30, 2015, at 3:35 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz  
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 5:33 PM, Marko Rodriguez  
>> wrote:
>>> ...In short, TinkerPop would depend on an Apache2 licensed neo4j-api. Some 
>>> manual
>>> downloads from testers/users would be required to use the tinkerpop-neo4j 
>>> component
>>> with a Neo4j database
>> 
>> That sounds ok to me as long as that's an optional component of TinkerPop.
>> 
>> -Bertrand
>> 
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Re: [VOTE] Release Apache Slider 0.80.0-incubating

[Steve Loughran]

> On 12 May 2015, at 22:08, Gour Saha  wrote:
> 
> 
> This vote will be open for 72 hours.
> 
> [ ] +1 approve
> [ ] +0 no opinion
> [ ] -1 disapprove (and reason why)
> 
> Thank You,
> The Apache Slider Team

+1 (binding)

as stated in the slider list: downloaded source, built and tested on windows. 


-Steve

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Question about Apache's voting procedures

[Stefan Reich]

Hi again!

I was silent because I am thinking... :) (Also I am making releases of my
software.)

I am trying to understand Apache.

It seems the voting processes are of big importance. I would like to know
who exactly gets to vote. All members of a mailing list? If yes, it seems
like an easily manipulatable process...

Also, who is officially the copyright owner on the Apache products? Because
that is a tremendous power position it seems to me.

All the best,
Stefan

Re: Question about Apache's voting procedures

[Jake Farrell]

Hi Stefan
The voting guidelines are available at [1]. The copyright owner is the
Apache Software Foundation, reading the grants and IP clearance docs is a
good place to get additional details on this

-Jake

[1]: http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html
[2]: http://www.apache.org/licenses/software-grant.txt

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 9:24 AM, Stefan Reich <
stefan.reich.maker.of@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi again!
>
> I was silent because I am thinking... :) (Also I am making releases of my
> software.)
>
> I am trying to understand Apache.
>
> It seems the voting processes are of big importance. I would like to know
> who exactly gets to vote. All members of a mailing list? If yes, it seems
> like an easily manipulatable process...
>
> Also, who is officially the copyright owner on the Apache products? Because
> that is a tremendous power position it seems to me.
>
> All the best,
> Stefan
>

Re: Question about Apache's voting procedures

[Ted Dunning]

Votes are not the issue.

Building community and building consensus in that community is the issue.

To specifically answer your questions:

It depends on the vote.  For project technical issues, project committers
are usually the voters.  For project management issues, the voters are
project management committee (PMC) members.  Management issues include
naming new committers and PMC members.  Apache members are a separate class
and they vote for new members and the board.  All of this is documented
on-line.

The copyright owner is the Apache Software Foundation.

If you are worried about power politics around your software, Apache is the
wrong place to be.  If you are interested in building up a community and
giving up ownership to that community, Apache might be the right place for
your work.

But note, the software is not the central thing.  The community is.








On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 2:24 PM, Stefan Reich <
stefan.reich.maker.of@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Hi again!
>
> I was silent because I am thinking... :) (Also I am making releases of my
> software.)
>
> I am trying to understand Apache.
>
> It seems the voting processes are of big importance. I would like to know
> who exactly gets to vote. All members of a mailing list? If yes, it seems
> like an easily manipulatable process...
>
> Also, who is officially the copyright owner on the Apache products? Because
> that is a tremendous power position it seems to me.
>
> All the best,
> Stefan
>

Re: Question about Apache's voting procedures

[Rob Vesse]

Answers inline:

On 13/05/2015 14:24, "Stefan Reich"
 wrote:

>Hi again!
>
>I was silent because I am thinking... :) (Also I am making releases of my
>software.)
>
>I am trying to understand Apache.

Take a look at community.apache.org - there is a lot of good introductory
material there

>
>It seems the voting processes are of big importance. I would like to know
>who exactly gets to vote. All members of a mailing list? If yes, it seems
>like an easily manipulatable process...

Anyone who participates in the community is invited to vote, votes are
held on the mailing list so in practise this is the portion of the
community on the mailing list

For some procedural votes e.g. releases which are a legal act of the
foundation for which the PMC takes responsibility then there is the notion
of binding versus non-binding votes

See http://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html for more information

How would you expect someone to manipulate this?

>
>Also, who is officially the copyright owner on the Apache products?
>Because
>that is a tremendous power position it seems to me.

The Apache License (http://www.apache.org/licenses/LICENSE-2.0) includes
explicit terms for this in Clause 2

Essentially in non-lawyer speak:

- Contributors retain the copyright to their contribution
- Contributors grant a copyright license to all downstream users of their
contributions that permits redistribution, modification, sub licensing etc

Rob

>
>All the best,
>Stefan





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Re: [DISCUSS] Trafodion Incubation Proposal

[Birdsall, Dave]

Hi,

I just wanted to acknowledge and thank the following folks for volunteering to 
mentor Trafodion on its way into and through incubation as an Apache project:

Michael Stack (champion)
Roman Shaposhnik (mentor)
Andrew Purtell (mentor)
Enis Söztutar (mentor)
Devaraj Das (mentor)
Konstantin Boudnik (mentor, half time)

More mentors are welcome of course. (And please forgive my inexperience; I 
don't know what number of mentors is common for incubating projects.)

Thanks,

Dave Birdsall, Community Manager, Trafodion project

Re: [DRAFT] May 2015 Board Report

[John D. Ament]

Ted,

I've updated the list below for those in by end of month.  Do you want to
forward to the board?  Anything else to be added?

John

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:48 PM Ted Dunning  wrote:

> Here are the recent IPMC additions sorted by time of addition:
>
> Amareshwari Sriramadasu [2015-04-11]
> David Lester[2015-04-11]
> Kim Whitehall [2015-04-11]
> P. Taylor Goetz [2015-04-11]
> Michael Joyce [2015-04-13]
> Jitendra Pandey[2015-04-30]
> Chris Nauroth  [2015-05-10]
> Julian Hyde   [2015-05-10]
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 1:56 AM, John D. Ament 
> wrote:
>
> > All,
> >
> > Below please find the current draft of this month's board report.  I'm
> > struggling a bit with the new IPMC members section, Ted if you can update
> > it?
> >
> > = Incubator PMC report for May 2015 =
> > === Timeline ===
> > ||Wed May 06 ||Podling reports due by end of day ||
> > ||Sun May 10 ||Shepherd reviews due by end of day ||
> > ||Sun May 10 ||Summary due by end of day ||
> > ||Tue May 12 ||Mentor signoff due by end of day ||
> > ||Wed May 13 ||Report submitted to Board ||
> > ||Wed May 20 ||Board meeting ||
> >
> >
> > === Shepherd Assignments ===
> > ||Andrei Savu ||AsterixDB ||
> > ||Andrei Savu ||Groovy ||
> > ||Drew Farris ||BatchEE ||
> > ||Justin Mclean ||Myriad ||
> > ||Konstantin Boudnik ||Blur ||
> > ||Konstantin Boudnik ||Kylin ||
> > ||Matthew Franklin ||Droids ||
> > ||Matthew Franklin ||Twill ||
> > ||P. Taylor Goetz ||NiFi ||
> > ||P. Taylor Goetz ||REEF ||
> > ||Raphael Bircher ||Tamaya ||
> > ||Raphael Bircher ||TinkerPop ||
> > ||Suresh Marru ||CommonsRDF ||
> > ||Suresh Marru ||Slider ||
> > ||Timothy Chen ||Singa ||
> > ||Timothy Chen ||Sirona ||
> >
> >
> > === Report content ===
> > {{{
> > Incubator PMC report for May 2015
> >
> > The Apache Incubator is the entry path into the ASF for projects and
> > codebases wishing to become part of the Foundation's efforts.
> >
> > < narrative >
> >
> > * Community
> >
> >   New IPMC members:
> >
> >
> >
> >   People who left the IPMC:
> >
> >
> >
> > * New Podlings
> >
> >   Geode
> >
> > * Graduations
> >
> >   The board has motions for the following:
> >
> >   Parquet
> >
> > * Releases
> >
> >   The following releases were made since the last Incubator report:
> >
> >   2015-04-02 apache-ignite-1.0.0
> >   2015-04-02 apahce-johnzon-0.7
> >   2015-04-15 apache-parquet-mr-1.6.0
> >   2015-04-16 apache-calcite-1.2.0
> >   2015-04-25 apache-streams-project-0.2
> >   2015-04-27 apache-tinkerpop-3.0.0.M8-incubating
> >
> >
> > * IP Clearance
> >
> >   Apache Storm Azure Eventhub Integration
> >   Donation of Apache Flex documentation by Adobe
> >   Donation of Apache Usergrid source code by Apigee.
> >
> > * Legal / Trademarks
> >
> >
> >
> > * Infrastructure
> >
> >
> >
> > * Miscellaneous
> >
> >   * The "Marvin" report reminders fired in a timely manner for the first
> > time in several months and were sent to the proper podlings.  A
> > replacement script had been contemplated but now that there is less
> > urgency it seems likely that we will continue to use the existing
> > facilities.
> >
> >  Summary of podling reports 
> >
> > * Still getting started at the Incubator
> >
> > AsterixDB
> > Myriad
> >
> > * Not yet ready to graduate
> >
> >   No release:
> >
> > CommonsRDF
> > Groovy
> > Kylin
> > Singa
> > Tamaya
> > Zeppelin
> >
> >   Community growth:
> >
> > NiFi
> > Slider
> > TinkerPop
> > Twill
> >
> > * Ready to graduate
> >
> > Blur
> >
> > * Low Activity
> >
> > Droids
> > ODF Toolkit
> >
> > * Did not report, expected next month
> >
> > BatchEE
> > REEF
> > Sirona
> >
> > --
> >Table of Contents
> > AsterixDB
> > Blur
> > CommonsRDF
> > Droids
> > Groovy
> > Kylin
> > Myriad
> > NiFi
> > ODF Toolkit
> > Singa
> > Slider
> > Tamaya
> > TinkerPop
> > Twill
> > Zeppelin
> >
> > --
> >
> > 
> > AsterixDB
> >
> > Apache AsterixDB is a scalable big data management system (BDMS) that
> > provides storage, management, and query capabilities for large
> collections
> > of semi- structured data.
> >
> > AsterixDB has been incubating since 2015-02-28.
> >
> > Three most important issues to address in the move towards graduation:
> >
> >   1. Get the site up.
> >   2. Do an Apache release.
> >   3. Grow community
> >
> > Any issues that the Incubator PMC (IPMC) or ASF Board wish/need to be
> > aware of?
> >
> >   No, still getting started.
> >
> > How has the community developed since the last report?
> >
> >   The SGA has been signed and the code has been imported.

Re: [VOTE] Release Apache htrace-3.2.0-incubating

[Abraham Elmahrek]

Closing the vote.

[7] +1 - 6 Were binding I believe. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
[0]   0
[0]  -1

Thanks for participating folks.

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:04 PM, Colin McCabe 
wrote:

> Downloaded.  Verified hashes.
> Ran unit tests
> Installed and built Hadoop trunk against it
> Verified that HDFS integration and htraced worked
>
> +1.
>
> cheers,
> Colin
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 7:01 PM, Jake Farrell  wrote:
> > Carrying my +1 (binding) over from the dev list
> >
> > -Jake
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2015 at 9:54 PM, Abraham Elmahrek  wrote:
> >
> >> Apache HTrace (incubating), after 2 release candidates, has voted to
> >> release the below referenced Apache HTrace 3.2.0-incubating release
> >> candidate.
> >>
> >> Dear IPMC, please vote on our second release candidate as an Apache
> >> Incubator project.
> >>
> >> Here is the vote thread we ran on our dev list (Six binding +1 votes
> and no
> >> -1 votes) with
> >> a subject: "[VOTE] HTrace 3.2.0 - Release Candidate 2", second release
> >> candidate"
> >>
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-htrace-dev/201505.mbox/%3CCAOvM-ciKd82bt3ze7oZD9FnNUcss8T%2BufwwgEndrhpnnOdgMNA%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >> <
> >>
> >>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-htrace-dev/201505.mbox/%3CCAOvM-ciKd82bt3ze7oZD9FnNUcss8T%2BufwwgEndrhpnnOdgMNA%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> >> >*
> >>
> >> The source tarball, hashes, and signing are here:
> >>
> >>   http://people.apache.org/~abe/htrace/releases/3.2.0/rc1/
> >>
> >> (Over in htrace our RC number was zero based so RC1 == second RC)
> >>
> >> Related maven artifacts are posted here:
> >>
> >>
> https://repository.apache.org/content/repositories/orgapachehtrace-1016
> >>
> >> The tag for the RC is here:
> >>
> >>
> https://git-wip-us.apache.org/repos/asf?p=incubator-htrace.git;a=tag;h=44fa6e0cd7456b5725b8557161f68b851fdf75d8
> >>
> >> The KEYS file with the key used signing is available here:
> >>
> >> *https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/incubator/htrace/KEYS
> >> *
> >>
> >>
> >> 75 issues were closed/resolved for this release:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/issues/?jql=project%20%3D%20HTRACE%20AND%20status%20%3D%20resolved%20AND%20fixVersion%20%3D%203.2.0%20ORDER%20BY%20issuetype%20DESC
> >>
> >>
> >> The vote will be open for 96 hours.
> >>
> >> [ ] +1 Release this package as Apache HTrace 3.2.0-incubating
> >> [ ] +0 no opinion
> >> [ ] -1 Do not release this package because ...
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Abe
> >>
>
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>
>

Re: [DRAFT] May 2015 Board Report

[Tim Williams]

fwiw, it'd be good that shepherds get in the habit of putting their or
initials in front of their comments, because the section is titled
"mentors/shepherd comments".

Thanks,
--tim

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 10:08 PM, John D. Ament  wrote:
> Ted,
>
> I've updated the list below for those in by end of month.  Do you want to
> forward to the board?  Anything else to be added?
>
> John
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:48 PM Ted Dunning  wrote:
>
>> Here are the recent IPMC additions sorted by time of addition:
>>
>> Amareshwari Sriramadasu [2015-04-11]
>> David Lester[2015-04-11]
>> Kim Whitehall [2015-04-11]
>> P. Taylor Goetz [2015-04-11]
>> Michael Joyce [2015-04-13]
>> Jitendra Pandey[2015-04-30]
>> Chris Nauroth  [2015-05-10]
>> Julian Hyde   [2015-05-10]
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 1:56 AM, John D. Ament 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > All,
>> >
>> > Below please find the current draft of this month's board report.  I'm
>> > struggling a bit with the new IPMC members section, Ted if you can update
>> > it?
>> >
>> > = Incubator PMC report for May 2015 =
>> > === Timeline ===
>> > ||Wed May 06 ||Podling reports due by end of day ||
>> > ||Sun May 10 ||Shepherd reviews due by end of day ||
>> > ||Sun May 10 ||Summary due by end of day ||
>> > ||Tue May 12 ||Mentor signoff due by end of day ||
>> > ||Wed May 13 ||Report submitted to Board ||
>> > ||Wed May 20 ||Board meeting ||
>> >
>> >
>> > === Shepherd Assignments ===
>> > ||Andrei Savu ||AsterixDB ||
>> > ||Andrei Savu ||Groovy ||
>> > ||Drew Farris ||BatchEE ||
>> > ||Justin Mclean ||Myriad ||
>> > ||Konstantin Boudnik ||Blur ||
>> > ||Konstantin Boudnik ||Kylin ||
>> > ||Matthew Franklin ||Droids ||
>> > ||Matthew Franklin ||Twill ||
>> > ||P. Taylor Goetz ||NiFi ||
>> > ||P. Taylor Goetz ||REEF ||
>> > ||Raphael Bircher ||Tamaya ||
>> > ||Raphael Bircher ||TinkerPop ||
>> > ||Suresh Marru ||CommonsRDF ||
>> > ||Suresh Marru ||Slider ||
>> > ||Timothy Chen ||Singa ||
>> > ||Timothy Chen ||Sirona ||
>> >
>> >
>> > === Report content ===
>> > {{{
>> > Incubator PMC report for May 2015
>> >
>> > The Apache Incubator is the entry path into the ASF for projects and
>> > codebases wishing to become part of the Foundation's efforts.
>> >
>> > < narrative >
>> >
>> > * Community
>> >
>> >   New IPMC members:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >   People who left the IPMC:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > * New Podlings
>> >
>> >   Geode
>> >
>> > * Graduations
>> >
>> >   The board has motions for the following:
>> >
>> >   Parquet
>> >
>> > * Releases
>> >
>> >   The following releases were made since the last Incubator report:
>> >
>> >   2015-04-02 apache-ignite-1.0.0
>> >   2015-04-02 apahce-johnzon-0.7
>> >   2015-04-15 apache-parquet-mr-1.6.0
>> >   2015-04-16 apache-calcite-1.2.0
>> >   2015-04-25 apache-streams-project-0.2
>> >   2015-04-27 apache-tinkerpop-3.0.0.M8-incubating
>> >
>> >
>> > * IP Clearance
>> >
>> >   Apache Storm Azure Eventhub Integration
>> >   Donation of Apache Flex documentation by Adobe
>> >   Donation of Apache Usergrid source code by Apigee.
>> >
>> > * Legal / Trademarks
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > * Infrastructure
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > * Miscellaneous
>> >
>> >   * The "Marvin" report reminders fired in a timely manner for the first
>> > time in several months and were sent to the proper podlings.  A
>> > replacement script had been contemplated but now that there is less
>> > urgency it seems likely that we will continue to use the existing
>> > facilities.
>> >
>> >  Summary of podling reports 
>> >
>> > * Still getting started at the Incubator
>> >
>> > AsterixDB
>> > Myriad
>> >
>> > * Not yet ready to graduate
>> >
>> >   No release:
>> >
>> > CommonsRDF
>> > Groovy
>> > Kylin
>> > Singa
>> > Tamaya
>> > Zeppelin
>> >
>> >   Community growth:
>> >
>> > NiFi
>> > Slider
>> > TinkerPop
>> > Twill
>> >
>> > * Ready to graduate
>> >
>> > Blur
>> >
>> > * Low Activity
>> >
>> > Droids
>> > ODF Toolkit
>> >
>> > * Did not report, expected next month
>> >
>> > BatchEE
>> > REEF
>> > Sirona
>> >
>> > --
>> >Table of Contents
>> > AsterixDB
>> > Blur
>> > CommonsRDF
>> > Droids
>> > Groovy
>> > Kylin
>> > Myriad
>> > NiFi
>> > ODF Toolkit
>> > Singa
>> > Slider
>> > Tamaya
>> > TinkerPop
>> > Twill
>> > Zeppelin
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > 
>> > AsterixDB
>> >
>> > Apache AsterixDB is a scalable big data management system (BDMS) that
>> > provides storage, management, and query capabilities for large
>> collections
>> > of semi- structured data.
>> >
>> > AsterixDB has been incubating sinc

Re: [DRAFT] May 2015 Board Report

[Konstantin Boudnik]

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:21PM, Tim Williams wrote:
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 10:11 PM, Konstantin Boudnik  wrote:
> 
> > - Blur:  Human activity on Dev list is almost zero: high 90% of the emails 
> > are from CI system or JIRA notificaitons.
> 
> Human's drive nearly all of that traffic.  What is your point?

How exactly the CI bot notifications are "human driven" ?

Cos

> Honestly, this shepherd comment seems unhelpful and lazy.  I'd suggest
> it's better to admit that you've run out of time than offer mediocre
> shepherd comments.
> 
> --tim
> 
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Re: [DRAFT] May 2015 Board Report

[Konstantin Boudnik]

On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 07:05AM, Tim Williams wrote:
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:49 PM, Dave Lester  wrote:
> > Hi Tim,
> >
> > I found Konstantin's comment to be helpful. Could it have provided
> > additional details? Sure. But I don't think there's a need to make this
> > personal. Shepherd comments tend to be quite brief.
> >
> > We should celebrate volunteer efforts instead of calling others
> > "unhelpful and lazy."
> 
> FWIW, those adjectives were describing the quality of the work - not
> the person.  Mediocre, again, was descriptive of the work/comments,

I don't care if you call lazy or else. Although some of the proponents of CoC
might get appalled at such a blunt violation of the sacred document ;)

The comment was made about "human activity on the list", not about the "driver
behind automatic notifications on the said list". Would be real nice if the
quality of the reading of the comment was less mediocre ;)

With best regards,
  Cos

> not the person. I don't think Cos, the person, is lazy, unhelpful, and
> he's certainly not mediocre:)  Anyway, I didn't mean to make it
> "personal" - it was an honest assessment of the work, that's all...
> 
> --tim
> 
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