Re: Mentor and Project Guide (WAS: RE: [OT] How to prevent...)

[Nicola Ken Barozzi]

David Crossley wrote:
Ted Husted wrote:
Jaaron, 

Either place is fine with me. Though, now that you mention it,
the wiki might be a more collaborative place to start. 
I presume that these new documents are going to
be at the Incubator website under control of SVN.
When i hear people say "start at the wiki" i get
worried that the docs stay there and we get a mess
of duplication.
Then, I say it again :-) , let's use html and give subversion access 
without too much worry to Apache committers. In this way they can add 
docs without even having to generate the site and others can browser the 
 docs in process via viewcvs.

--
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- verba volant, scripta manent -
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Re: Castle proposal

[hammett]

Hello Cliff,
Yes, you're right. Aspect# and DynamicProxy discussions happens on sf.net 
users mailing list: 
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=40942
Not heavy traffic but now that NHibernate project is doing some heavy tests 
with it, more discussions should come.

Anyway, in Castle proposal, section 1.1.1.2 - Community, it's stated 'The 
Aspect# project have three developers involved, and the Castle container has 
only one. This incubation process has the objective of attract more 
contributors, new ideas, new perceptions and even new use cases that will 
drive our roadmap.'
And section 1.1.2.1 states 'We've been using our projects in commercial 
applications to practice the eat-your-own-dog-food and consequently improve 
the design and features as needed. However this is not enough and this 
incubation process is exactly to make our community stronger.'

Thus we consider this incubation process as a attempt to build a community. 
If we fail on this, we wont graduate, and neither we would like to graduate 
without a community.

But now, if we should have a strong community to enter incubator, then we 
will have to wait a few months :-(

Cheers,
hammett
- Original Message - 
From: "Cliff Schmidt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: Castle proposal

Sorry for the late reply.  I thought it was more appropriate
to reply to this thread rather than the [VOTE] thread if I
was primarily asking a question/voicing a concern...
From the proposal and a quick look at the SF sites,
I get the impression that there isn't much of a community
behind this project yet.  You mention that in your proposal
and the mailing list archives look relatively sparse.
In other words, I don't see lots of development discussion
on the lists nor much of a presence of a user community.
Please correct me if I've missed something, which is quite
possible.  I also understand some of this comes from Avalon,
so you may have a community there.
I think there are two schools of thought about whether new
incubator projects should have some sort of community to
start with or whether that only needs to exist upon leaving
incubation.  Personally, I lean towards requiring some
community around a project before entering incubation,
because I fear that doing otherwise will eventually be
difficult to scale.
So, hammett, please correct me if I've misunderstood the
state of the Castle community.  Also, other Incubator PMC
members should weigh-in about how much this even matters.
Otherwise, I think your proposal looks good (and interesting).
Cliff
-Original Message-
From: hammett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 01, 2004 11:50 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Castle proposal
Hello,
I've submitted the first draft for your appreciation.
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CastleProposal
Looking forward to hearing from you! :-)
--
hammett
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Re: Mentor and Project Guide (WAS: RE: [OT] How to prevent...)

[Berin Lautenbach]

It does look good.
Noel - make sure you do some heckling for me as well :>.
Cheers,
Berin
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Cliff Schmidt wrote
If it's any use, you can download the slides at:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/view/e_sess/5439

I'll be giving a similar presentation next month at ApacheCon.

I'll be there to heckle.  ;-)
Actually, the presentation looks pretty good.  :-)
--- Noel
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Derby release

[Samuel Andrew McIntyre]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
(resending original request to [EMAIL PROTECTED], my  
apologies)

On behalf of the Derby development community, I would like to request  
permission to post the binaries you'll find here:

http://www.apache.org/~rubys/derby10021/
as an incubating release on the Derby website. Please see this message  
for more details:

http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=derby- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]&msgNo=750

These files are missing the CHANGES file. I've sent updated binaries to  
Sam to post but I don't believe he has gotten around to posting the new  
ones yet. In the meantime, you can view the file here:

http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/derby/code/trunk/CHANGES
Please let derby-dev know if it is acceptable to post the updated  
binaries as a release.

Many thanks,
Andrew McIntyre
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Re: BPEL

[Geir Magnusson Jr]

On Oct 19, 2004, at 11:01 PM, Uijin Hong (홍의진) wrote:
I'v just checked out the source
and hanging around with the maven configurations.
And I found that 'gluecode' is being used as maven group-id
and artifact-id is missing.
I think we should remove the 'gluecode' from agila, isn't it?
Yes - thanks, and it's done.
geir
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:26:44 -0700, Geir Magnusson Jr
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Oct 18, 2004, at 8:50 AM, Hookom, Jacob wrote:
Is there anything going on with the Business Process project?
I just got the first drop of code in
svn co https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/agila/trunk/
There is no docs, and pieces are still missing, but we'll keep
contributing here :)
I was going to add a simple readme.txt before announcing...
Jacob Hookom
Senior Analyst/Programmer
McKesson Medical-Surgical, Minnesota
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Uijin Hong (홍의진)
http://runeconsulting.com/heartbit/
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Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila

[Matthieu Riou]

Hello,

I'm the project leader of Twister, an open source WS-BPEL engine. More
can be found about Twister here:

http://www.smartcomps.org/twister

I'm sending this e-mail to suggest a donation of Twister to the Apache
Group and a merge with the incubated Apache Agila project. I believe
that Twister and the Gluecode engine could be assembled to a better
solution, using the strengths of both implementations. This would also
be beneficial for the BPM Open Source community and would bring more
users and contributors to Agila.

Regards,

Matthieu Riou

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Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila

[Geir Magnusson Jr]

This is great.  We're really interested in getting BPEL into Agila.  
I'll take a look.

We originally decided to not go w/ BPEL as the core language, as we 
wanted to support all kinds of activities in a workflow, being able to 
make a workflow that mixes them.  So it was planned that we'd get BPEL 
support, and allow you to incorporate BPEL into a regular Agila 
workflow using a namespace or something.  Of course, we can decide if 
we want to change that plan here, but I think there are some compelling 
arguments for that kind of approach...

geir
On Oct 20, 2004, at 5:52 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote:
Hello,
I'm the project leader of Twister, an open source WS-BPEL engine. More
can be found about Twister here:
http://www.smartcomps.org/twister
I'm sending this e-mail to suggest a donation of Twister to the Apache
Group and a merge with the incubated Apache Agila project. I believe
that Twister and the Gluecode engine could be assembled to a better
solution, using the strengths of both implementations. This would also
be beneficial for the BPM Open Source community and would bring more
users and contributors to Agila.
Regards,
Matthieu Riou
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Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila

[Davanum Srinivas]

+1 from me. Sounds like a good fit.

-- dims


On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:52:44 +0200, Matthieu Riou
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm the project leader of Twister, an open source WS-BPEL engine. More
> can be found about Twister here:
> 
> http://www.smartcomps.org/twister
> 
> I'm sending this e-mail to suggest a donation of Twister to the Apache
> Group and a merge with the incubated Apache Agila project. I believe
> that Twister and the Gluecode engine could be assembled to a better
> solution, using the strengths of both implementations. This would also
> be beneficial for the BPM Open Source community and would bring more
> users and contributors to Agila.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Matthieu Riou
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 


-- 
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/

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Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila

[Matthieu Riou]

I'm going to have a closer look at Agila to see how Twister can fit
here. Is there anything I should look at beside the Subversion
repository?

Twister's engine core is somewhat tied to WS-BPEL. Our approach was a
bit different, we didn't try to build a meta-model or anything too
generic. Our plan was just to extend the engine if other workflow
patterns were needed and not included in BPEL and stick with the specs
for the rest.

Anyway I'll just check Agila and see how Twister and WS-BPEL could be
integrated into it. We could work out a way to stick with your
original plan which, I agree, may be better for a generic workflow
implementation. If you have any question about Twister, just let me
know.

Matthieu.


On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:20:55 -0700, Geir Magnusson Jr
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is great.  We're really interested in getting BPEL into Agila.
> I'll take a look.
> 
> We originally decided to not go w/ BPEL as the core language, as we
> wanted to support all kinds of activities in a workflow, being able to
> make a workflow that mixes them.  So it was planned that we'd get BPEL
> support, and allow you to incorporate BPEL into a regular Agila
> workflow using a namespace or something.  Of course, we can decide if
> we want to change that plan here, but I think there are some compelling
> arguments for that kind of approach...
> 
> geir
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 20, 2004, at 5:52 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm the project leader of Twister, an open source WS-BPEL engine. More
> > can be found about Twister here:
> >
> > http://www.smartcomps.org/twister
> >
> > I'm sending this e-mail to suggest a donation of Twister to the Apache
> > Group and a merge with the incubated Apache Agila project. I believe
> > that Twister and the Gluecode engine could be assembled to a better
> > solution, using the strengths of both implementations. This would also
> > be beneficial for the BPM Open Source community and would bring more
> > users and contributors to Agila.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Matthieu Riou
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> --
> Geir Magnusson Jr  +1-203-665-6437
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> -
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> 
>

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Re: [VOTE] Proposal for Castle

[Brian McCallister]

+1 (non-binding)
-Brian
On Oct 18, 2004, at 5:41 PM, hammett wrote:
My non-binding vote just to bring the topic back :-D
+1
Cheers,
hammett
- Original Message - From: "Leo Simons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 5:30 AM
Subject: [VOTE] Proposal for Castle

Hi all,
Please vote on the Castle incubation proposal:
   http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CastleProposal
+1 from me.
References:
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg? 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]&msgNo=4289
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList? 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]&by=thread&from=894370

- Leo Simons

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Re: Percentage of projects using Subversion was Re: Donation of JAXP 1.3 Sources to Apache

[Santiago Gala]

El mar, 19-10-2004 a las 11:40 -0700, Justin Erenkrantz escribiÃ:
> --On Tuesday, October 19, 2004 1:56 PM -0400 Neil Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> 
> > I'd also be curious to know what proportion of Apache projects have
> > migrated to SVN so far?  There would be a significantly higher amount of
> > churn caused to the community by an SVN migration than was caused by our
> > earlier Jira migration; so I'd prefer to go down a well-trod path than be
> > on the bleeding edge in this particular instance.
> 
> 
> 
> A fair number of projects have already converted and a few more (such as 
> httpd) have already agreed to convert, but are waiting for the 'right' time 
> to convert.  (My hunch is a bunch more might migrate at upcoming AC'04.)
> 

portals is half way. Jetspeed-1 will be converted after the next
release, and Jetspeed-2 too. Site and pluto are already using svn.

The only nit I have it I was never able to make subclipse work under
linux-ppc, which is what I'm currently using. Not that I use eclipse
that much, though.

Ah!, and getting updatedb ignore the .svn trees would be nice too.

Regards

> For more info, please see: 
> 
> HTH.  -- justin
> 
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Santiago Gala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
High Sierra Technology, SLU


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Re: Percentage of projects using Subversion was Re: Donation of JAXP 1.3 Sources to Apache

[Dain Sundstrom]

On Oct 19, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Justin Erenkrantz wrote:
--On Tuesday, October 19, 2004 12:01 PM -0700 Geir Magnusson Jr 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I'm happy w/ svn.  I really wish I had some minimal support in IDEA, 
but
"svn stat" and "svn move" make up for it :)

Hate to be the one to break the news to you, but svnup doesn't seem to 
work anymore.  Also, there are no binaries for OSX.  I love svn and 
would never go back to cvs but the lack of IntelliJ support sucks.

-dain
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Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila

[Geir Magnusson Jr .]

On Oct 20, 2004, at 7:03 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote:
I'm going to have a closer look at Agila to see how Twister can fit
here. Is there anything I should look at beside the Subversion
repository?
Twister's engine core is somewhat tied to WS-BPEL. Our approach was a
bit different, we didn't try to build a meta-model or anything too
generic. Our plan was just to extend the engine if other workflow
patterns were needed and not included in BPEL and stick with the specs
for the rest.
Anyway I'll just check Agila and see how Twister and WS-BPEL could be
integrated into it. We could work out a way to stick with your
original plan which, I agree, may be better for a generic workflow
implementation. If you have any question about Twister, just let me
know.

We have a model of 'activities' in the workflow graph that generally 
can do what they want as part of their action.  They are 'two phase' - 
when execution gets to that node, a start method is called, in which 
the activity can "do something" - trigger an external action on another 
system, create a task for a user - and then indicate to the engine if 
execution should continue to the activities doEnd() method, or just 
stop and wait for an external message to trigger continuation to the 
doEnd() method.

To illustrate for a task, where the activity sets a task for a user, 
waits for the user to do the task, and then with the data from the task 
(say the user had to fill in a form), process the data and continue.

So for example, the flow for a simple task is :
- engine calls 'doStart()'
- doStart() does whatever and then adds a task for a user.
- doStart() returns 'false', indicating that the engine should not 
continue execution
- some time later, the user does the task, which results in a message 
going to the engine w/ the data entered by the user
- the engine gets the message, calls doEnd() to allow the activity to 
process the data, and continue based on state data and task data

This allows for activities that are asynchronous, which I imagine would 
be perfect for asynch webservices.

To contrast to an activity that doesn't need input from outside, like 
adding a notification for a user, or getting data from somewhere 
synchronously :

- engine calls 'doStart()'
- doStart() does whatever
- doStart() returns 'true', indicating that the engine should continue 
execution
- the engine immediately calls doEnd()

so in this, an activity can do a synchronous call to the outside, 
although synchronous external execution can be a performance killer...

Anyway, given this, I thought BPEL execution could be taken care of by 
one or more activities that do the WS execution.  Now, I'm fairly 
ignorant about BPEL, so I'm interested in what kind of execution model 
you'd need.

geir
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Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila

[Sanjiva Weerawarana]

+1 for merging in BPEL support using Twister.

Geir, I'd like to understand the BPEL plans for Agila a bit
more. I'm a co-author of the BPEL spec and have done an impl
of it in IBM (BPWS4J- which was released via alphaworks a while
back). My intuition is that a solid impl of BPEL needs to work
very closely with the Web service layer. AFAIK there hasn't been
that kind of interaction between Agila and the Axis community
yet. Dims and I can easily support/facilitate that!

Matthieu- how does Twister do its SOAP, WSDL etc. stuff? Do
you support non-SOAP bindings? (BPWS4J used WSIF, for example.)

Sanjiva.

- Original Message - 
From: "Geir Magnusson Jr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila


> This is great.  We're really interested in getting BPEL into Agila.  
> I'll take a look.
> 
> We originally decided to not go w/ BPEL as the core language, as we 
> wanted to support all kinds of activities in a workflow, being able to 
> make a workflow that mixes them.  So it was planned that we'd get BPEL 
> support, and allow you to incorporate BPEL into a regular Agila 
> workflow using a namespace or something.  Of course, we can decide if 
> we want to change that plan here, but I think there are some compelling 
> arguments for that kind of approach...
> 
> geir
> 
> On Oct 20, 2004, at 5:52 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm the project leader of Twister, an open source WS-BPEL engine. More
> > can be found about Twister here:
> >
> > http://www.smartcomps.org/twister
> >
> > I'm sending this e-mail to suggest a donation of Twister to the Apache
> > Group and a merge with the incubated Apache Agila project. I believe
> > that Twister and the Gluecode engine could be assembled to a better
> > solution, using the strengths of both implementations. This would also
> > be beneficial for the BPM Open Source community and would bring more
> > users and contributors to Agila.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Matthieu Riou
> >
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> -- 
> Geir Magnusson Jr  +1-203-665-6437
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 
> 

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Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila

[Aleksander Slominski]

Sanjiva Weerawarana wrote:
+1 for merging in BPEL support using Twister.
Geir, I'd like to understand the BPEL plans for Agila a bit
more. I'm a co-author of the BPEL spec and have done an impl
of it in IBM (BPWS4J- which was released via alphaworks a while
back). My intuition is that a solid impl of BPEL needs to work
very closely with the Web service layer. AFAIK there hasn't been
that kind of interaction between Agila and the Axis community
yet. Dims and I can easily support/facilitate that!
Matthieu- how does Twister do its SOAP, WSDL etc. stuff? Do
you support non-SOAP bindings? (BPWS4J used WSIF, for example.)
 

i think Mathieu is already aware of this but current WSIF needs upgrade ...
http://smartcomps.kgbinternet.com/confluence/display/twister/2004/08/13/WSIF+and+adding+bindings+to+WSDL
alek
- Original Message - 
From: "Geir Magnusson Jr" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila

 

This is great.  We're really interested in getting BPEL into Agila.  
I'll take a look.

We originally decided to not go w/ BPEL as the core language, as we 
wanted to support all kinds of activities in a workflow, being able to 
make a workflow that mixes them.  So it was planned that we'd get BPEL 
support, and allow you to incorporate BPEL into a regular Agila 
workflow using a namespace or something.  Of course, we can decide if 
we want to change that plan here, but I think there are some compelling 
arguments for that kind of approach...

geir
On Oct 20, 2004, at 5:52 AM, Matthieu Riou wrote:
   

Hello,
I'm the project leader of Twister, an open source WS-BPEL engine. More
can be found about Twister here:
http://www.smartcomps.org/twister
I'm sending this e-mail to suggest a donation of Twister to the Apache
Group and a merge with the incubated Apache Agila project. I believe
that Twister and the Gluecode engine could be assembled to a better
solution, using the strengths of both implementations. This would also
be beneficial for the BPM Open Source community and would bring more
users and contributors to Agila.
Regards,
Matthieu Riou
-
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Geir Magnusson Jr  +1-203-665-6437
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Proposition: Twister WS-BPEL engine and Apache Agila

[Sanjiva Weerawarana]

"Aleksander Slominski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> i think Mathieu is already aware of this but current WSIF needs upgrade
...
>
http://smartcomps.kgbinternet.com/confluence/display/twister/2004/08/13/WSIF+and+adding+bindings+to+WSDL
>
> alek

Excellent! Indeed WSIF needs an upgrade .. I'm hoping to do it
as part of the Axis2 work eventually - possibly using the Axis2
OM to replace WSIF's message stuff (and become more WSDL 2.0
oriented etc.). That'll take some time however .. need to wait
for that stuff to settle yet.

Sanjiva.


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RE: Derby release

[Cliff Schmidt]

Samuel Andrew McIntyre wrote on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 12:26 AM:

> (resending original request to [EMAIL PROTECTED], my
> apologies)

Thanks, Andrew.  No need to apologize; it's common for someone to 
assume that issues of interest to the PMC should be sent to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ;-)  We just try to conduct as much discussion as possible on
this list.

> On behalf of the Derby development community, I would like to request
> permission to post the binaries you'll find here:
> 
> http://www.apache.org/~rubys/derby10021/

I assume you mean binaries _and source_ distributions, since that is what
appears at that site.

IIUC, we're still waiting on either a) IBM to update the copyright 
notices to look like what is found in other Apache projects, or
b) ASF's legal counsel to advise whether the policy should be modified.

>From a quick look at the downloads, it looks like you've got the 
incubator disclaimer and filename issues covered, but both source
and binaries include text such as:

   Licensed Materials - Property of IBM
   Cloudscape - Package org.apache.derby.tools
   (C) Copyright IBM Corp. 1998, 2004. All Rights Reserved.
   US Government Users Restricted Rights - Use, duplication or
   disclosure restricted by GSA ADP Schedule Contract with IBM Corp.

I believe this needs to change.

Cliff

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Re: Mentor and Project Guide (WAS: RE: [OT] How to prevent...)

[thorsten]

Very nice presentation.
that is defentely a must read for incubating projects.
Cheers Cliff
thorsten
Cliff Schmidt wrote:
Resending same post under the other renamed thread.  My previous
post unintentionally started a second renamed thread -- didn't
notice this one ("Mentor and Project Guide") until after I sent
it.
Cliff
Cliff Schmidt wrote on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 7:23 PM:

I gave a 45-minute presentation on Apache and the Incubator at
the O'Reilly Open Source Convention last July.  If it's any use,
you can download the slides at:
http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2004/view/e_sess/5439
(.ppt format -- if there's any interest I can convert to html
or .pdf).
I'll be giving a similar presentation next month at ApacheCon.
It's not nearly detailed enough for what you're talking about
doing (which is much needed...I've been meaning to do similar
work for months, but might need other energy like yours to
motivate me to prioritize it above other things going on in
life).  So, take what's useful out of it -- it's licensed under
Apache License v2
Cliff
Ted Husted wrote on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 1:29 AM:

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:28:56 -0400, J Aaron Farr wrote:
Where are you working on this?  I'd love to help.
jaaron
We should probably work on it in the Incubator repository. Perhaps as
a standalone whiteboard document first, and then as the Projects
page, when it's ready for prime time.
If you want to start the ball rolling by reducing the outline to XML,
that would be great.  So far, that's all I have down.
-Ted.
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g

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[STATUS] (incubator) Wed Oct 20 23:45:24 EDT 2004

[Rodent of Unusual Size]

APACHE INCUBATOR PROJECT STATUS:  -*-indented-text-*-
Last modified at [$Date: 2003/11/11 00:01:00 $]

Web site:  http://Incubator.Apache.Org/
Wiki page: http://Nagoya.Apache.Org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?ApacheIncubatorProjectPages

[note: the Web site is the 'official' documentation; the wiki pages
 are for collaborative development, including stuff destined for the
 Web site.]

Pending Issues
==

o We need to be very very clear about what it takes to be accepted
  into the incubator.  It should be a very low bar to leap, possibly
  not much more than 'no problematic code' and the existence of a
  healthy community (we don't want to become a dumping ground).

o We need to be very very clear about what it takes for a podling
  to graduate from the incubator.  The basic requirements obviously
  include: has a home, either as part of another ASF project or as
  a new top-level project of its own; needs to be a credit to the
  ASF and function well in the ASF framework; ...

o Moving the bylaw documentation from the Wiki to the main site
o Merge the README.txt info on site management and the info on the
  "How to Participate" page into a single place
o fix formatting of the project status pages

Resolved Issues
===

o The policy documentation does not need ratification of changes
  if there seems consensus. Accordingly, the draft status of these
  documents can be removed and we will use the lazy "commit first,
  discuss later" mode common across the ASF for documentation
  (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]&by=thread&from=517190)

o Coming up with a set of bylaws for the project
  (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]&by=thread&from=517190)

o All projects under incubation must use a STATUS file (or a
  status.xml file if the project prefers XML) that contains
  information the PMC needs about the project. This file must
  live at the root of the project cvs module
  (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]&by=thread&from=504543)

o Projects under incubation should display appropriate "disclaimers"
  so that it is clear that they are, indeed, under incubation
  (http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]&by=thread&from=504543)

The Incubation Process
==

This tries to list all the actions items that must be complete for a project
before it can graduate from the incubator. It is probably incomplete.

Identify the project to be incubated:

  -- Make sure that the requested project name does not already exist
 and check www.nameprotect.com to be sure that the name is not
 already trademarked for an existing software product.

  -- If request from an existing Apache project to adopt an external
 package, then ask the Apache project for the cvs module and mail
 address names.

  -- If request from outside Apache to enter an existing Apache project,
 then post a message to that project for them to decide on acceptance.

  -- If request from anywhere to become a stand-alone PMC, then assess
 the fit with the ASF, and create the lists and modules under the
 incubator address/module names if accepted.

Interim responsibility:

  -- Who has been identified as the mentor for the incubation?

  -- Are they tracking progress in the file

  incubator/projects/{project_name}/STATUS

Copyright:

  -- Have the papers that transfer rights to the ASF been received?
 It is only necessary to transfer rights for the package, the
 core code, and any new code produced by the project.

  -- Have the files been updated to reflect the new ASF copyright?

Verify distribution rights:

  -- For all code included with the distribution that is not under the
 Apache license, do we have the right to combine with Apache-licensed
 code and redistribute?

  -- Is all source code distributed by the project covered by one or more
 of the following approved licenses:  Apache, BSD, Artistic, MIT/X,
 MIT/W3C, MPL 1.1, or something with essentially the same terms?

Establish a list of active committers:

  -- Are all active committers in the STATUS file?

  -- Do they have accounts on cvs.apache.org?

  -- Have they submitted a contributors agreement?

Infrastructure:

  -- CVS modules created and committers added to avail file?

  -- Mailing lists set up and archived?

  -- Problem tracking system (Bugzilla)?

  -- Has the project migrated to our infrastructure?

Collaborative Development:

  -- Have all of the active long-term volunteers been identified
 and acknowledged as committers on the project?

  -- Are there three or more independent committers?

 [The legal definition of independent is long and boring, but basically
  it means that there is no binding relationship between the individuals,
  such as a shared employer, that is capable of over

Re: [VOTE] Proposal for Castle

[Roy T . Fielding]

Please vote on the Castle incubation proposal:
   http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CastleProposal
-1.  Find more people interested in the project.
Sorry, but I have nothing positive to say about containers in terms
of engendering useful communities, let alone CLI containers.
And I am not going to vote for another "project" with 3 committers.
So, I think you need to find enough people to form a critical mass,
since we don't have the resources to start up projects that don't
have a reasonable plan of supporting themselves in the future.
Roy
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