Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life
wt., 18 lut 2020, 10:20 użytkownik Steve O'Hara-Smith napisał: > On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 04:23:35 +0100 > Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > > > Why so short End-Of-Life? Why so many fast and short releases? What for? > > The new(ish) release and support policy has been announced and well > documented, this should come as no surprise to anyone. > > -- > Steve O'Hara-Smith > True.. but the surprise is the Linux like bleeding edge in BSD and the quality degradation at a degree that I have just replaced my FreeBSD laptop with a MacBook :-( Maybe its a time to give OpenBSD a try.. -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life
On Mon, 17 Feb 2020 at 22:24, Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > > Why so short End-Of-Life? Why so many fast and short releases? What for? > > Why pushing problems to production? What was wrong with having one > well tested stable system for a long time? I really don't understand this - FreeBSD 12 is supported for 5 years. 12.0 was released at the end of 2018. I've heard many complaints that minor releases from stable branches are not frequent enough. > 12.0 was a problematic release. 12.1 brings even more problems. The major issue with 12.1 is a problem with the Intel graphics kernel module, and fixing that was held up by both 12.0 and 12.1 being supported. The problem will automatically resolve once 12.0 is no longer supported. (Yes, I wish we were able to address this issue in a way other than waiting for 12.0's EOL, but nobody in the FreeBSD development community was able to find the time to do so.) ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life
On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 at 05:37, Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > > Maybe its a time to give OpenBSD a try.. I really don't understand this comment, either. Certainly give OpenBSD a try and if it fits your needs better that's great. As far as I'm aware OpenBSD issues a release every six months and supports the most recent two releases, so it seems odd to me to complain about FreeBSD's ~1 year minor release support lifetime and 5 year stable branch support lifetime in that context. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life
Hello Ed, thanks for your input :-) On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 3:46 PM Ed Maste wrote: > > 12.0 was a problematic release. 12.1 brings even more problems. > > The major issue with 12.1 is a problem with the Intel graphics kernel > module, and fixing that was held up by both 12.0 and 12.1 being > supported. The problem will automatically resolve once 12.0 is no > longer supported. > > (Yes, I wish we were able to address this issue in a way other than > waiting for 12.0's EOL, but nobody in the FreeBSD development > community was able to find the time to do so.) Ah, in this case 12.0 EoL is highly desired. Now I understand. Thank you :-) But also as this DRM user (for Intel and AMD) I have experienced the related hiccups, problems, and problems solutions. It does not look like a FreeBSD way, but more like Linux way. I never noticed anything like this before. Sure, I can see this only as the end-user, maybe tester, I did no commits, so in theory I cannot complain, but it seems like more experienced kernel people could take part in this kind of solution architecture and design right from start in order to prevent avalanche of future problems and problematic solutions that will generate more problems. Another problem is the VirtualBox virtualization that is not really usable anymore. I am aware of closed-source VBox Guest Additions problem. My VM works fine for a first minute or two but then it stops when I start working on it. With DRM and Framebuffer X11 drivers so it does not seem related. It can consume all resources and/or break graphics (i.e. Enlightenment WM). I have tried various permutations of configuration and operating systems (mostly Windoze, but also Linux). I am not sure if I am the only person having this problem as I have asked some questions before. I know there is BHYVE but its not really that easy to use as VBox (to be honest I did not manage to run anything beyond examples). Simple and efficient hypervisor is a must have nowadays in productivity work. For a modern workstation a fairly good GPU driver and Virtualization seems mandatory. Not to mention input devices like Trackpad. I cannot use them reliably at this time anymore. It worked well in the past. Thus my question - why create a new release with new features when there are still basic features missing or incomplete.. I would really care for productivity in the first place even if its 9.12 release :-) I really love FreeBSD!! I advocate it in my every project and every project I am part of. I use it as a base on my servers. It worked really nice on my desktop, but it does not anymore. I am not really comfortable to switch to macOS BSD but time is precious and clients are waiting for the results.. I just wonder: 1. Maybe if Sony uses FreeBSD on their PlayStation with AMD GPU - could they share back the solution? 2. Maybe Intel could help in development of the DRM architecture? They have really nice R&D in Poland.. Did anyone try that? :-) -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life
On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 3:51 PM Ed Maste wrote: > > On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 at 05:37, Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > > > > Maybe its a time to give OpenBSD a try.. > > I really don't understand this comment, either. Certainly give OpenBSD > a try and if it fits your needs better that's great. > > As far as I'm aware OpenBSD issues a release every six months and > supports the most recent two releases, so it seems odd to me to > complain about FreeBSD's ~1 year minor release support lifetime and 5 > year stable branch support lifetime in that context. Its more like "lets try if what I need works better over there". Not really the release timeline. The release timeline problem is more related with pushing untested features (and possible avalanche of solutions that introduce yet another complications that we observe right now). "The BSD Way", for me, was always about "it works solid or its not there". Like macOS / iOS. Unlike "The Linux Way" where things changes upside down from release to release and each one of them has its own universe of variants. Like Android. I am not sure if it is that important if there is a release in 6 month or 2 years. Not a problem at all. If in two years I get a 5 new features that work rock solid then it seems a better choice than getting new features every six months and have more problems on a production because of that. If I need to experiment there is a CURRENT branch. For well tested features I have STABLE. For rock solid "I bet my money on that" I have a RELEASE. Right? I did miss the 12.0 EoL kind of fix for DRM, sorry, it seems reasonable. I am just worried that 12.2-RELEASE will have the same problems, if not more new problems. Maybe I should go back to 11 and see how things work over there :-P Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life
On 18/Feb/2020 17:19, Tomasz CEDRO wrot> But also as this DRM user (for Intel and AMD) I have experienced the related hiccups, problems, and problems solutions. It does not look like a FreeBSD way, but more like Linux way. I never noticed anything like this before. Sure, I can see this only as the end-user, maybe tester, I did no commits, so in theory I cannot complain, but it seems like more experienced kernel people could take part in this kind of solution architecture and design right from start in order to prevent avalanche of future problems and problematic solutions that will generate more problems. Another problem is the VirtualBox virtualization that is not really usable anymore. I am aware of closed-source VBox Guest Additions problem. My VM works fine for a first minute or two but then it stops when I start working on it. With DRM and Framebuffer X11 drivers so it does not seem related. Both the DRM issue and VirtualBox are fixed by making sure you recompile and install the kernel modules from the source in /usr/ports when you upgrade the OS, or if 'pkg upgrade' overwrites them. Its a bit annnoying, but hardly a showstopper I find. VirtualBox done this way is perfectly stable for me, as is DRM these days. cheers, -pete. PS; If you are running VirtualBox on top of ZFS then make sure you have the approrpiate AIO tunings in sysctl.conf though. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life
Hi all, > Am 18.02.2020 um 18:44 schrieb Pete French : > Both the DRM issue and VirtualBox are fixed by making sure you recompile and > install the kernel modules from the source in /usr/ports when you upgrade the > OS, or if 'pkg upgrade' overwrites them. Its a bit annnoying, but hardly a > showstopper I find. `pkg lock` after installing from ports is your friend ;-) Kind regards, Patrick -- punkt.de GmbH Patrick M. Hausen .infrastructure Kaiserallee 13a 76133 Karlsruhe Tel. +49 721 9109500 https://infrastructure.punkt.de i...@punkt.de AG Mannheim 108285 Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Egeling, Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
