Re: WSLg update on 1-5-2021 - BSD / WSL
On Thu, 6 May 2021 10:57:16 +0100 David Chisnall wrote: > Whether Microsoft or the FreeBSD project should do the work really > comes down to who has more to gain. Windows 10 is installed on > around a 1.3 billion devices and any of these users can run Ubuntu > with a single click in the Microsoft Store, so it feels as if the > FreeBSD project has a lot to gain from being able to reach them. Make job for free - make more money for MS. Make win10 to support more features to increase windows value... > If you believe that FreeBSD provides a better experience (I certainly > believe it provides a better developer experience) than Ubuntu, then > making it easy to reach every Windows users is of huge value to the > FreeBSD project and community. Manipulation detected. > Microsoft, in contrast, is driven by requests from customers who > spend money on our products and services. > Around a hundred people > commented on the WSL issue to add FreeBSD support. Ok, do you job and add FBSD support to WSL. > If you assume > that 1% of people who want the feature commented, then this gives > around 10,000 folks who really want a FreeBSD equivalent of WSL. They give money to MS, they ask MS to do job for money. > It's pretty hard to justify a feature in Windows that only 0.001% of > Windows users will use. If you want to change that arithmetic, then > next time your organisation is renewing M365 or Azure service > subscriptions, tell your sales rep that FreeBSD support is important > to your company. There is many other hosting services that have FBSD support. So this is MS/azure problem. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame
Several versions of 14-CURRENT (including FreeBSD-14.0-CURRENT-amd64-20210506-49c894ddced-246502-memstick.img) can not boot on Lenovo T540p 19 times out of 20. It crashes on device detection, after detecting sound subsystem, with traps 9 and 12 (9 is more often) and mostly with this stacktrace (9 out of 10 crashes have this stacktrace: -- trap run_interrupt_driven_config_hooks() boot_run_interrupt_driven_config_hooks() mi_startup() btext() But twice I've got more interesting stacktraces: -- trap strlen() kvprintf() vsnprintf() vpanic() panic() __mtx_lock_flags() _sleep() mmc_wait_for_request() mmc_wait_for_cmd() mmc_go_discovery() mmc_delayed_attach() run_interrupt_driven_config_hooks() boot_run_interrupt_driven_config_hooks() mi_startup() btext() --- trap __mtx_lock_sleep() __mtx_lock_flags() mmc_wakeup() rtsx_intr() ithread_loop() fork_exit() fork_trampoline() Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! I've checked memory with memtest86+ for 24 hours (4.5 passes) without any problems. -- // Lev Serebryakov ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame
On 07.05.2021 14:33, Lev Serebryakov wrote: Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! Oh, I forgot to add: disabling SD Card Reader in BIOS solves problem! And console on these crashes is totally dead, and disks are not detected yet, so I can not look at structures in memory and/or dump core. -- // Lev Serebryakov ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame - 13.0-RELEASE crashes same way!
On 07.05.2021 14:36, Lev Serebryakov wrote: Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! Oh, I forgot to add: disabling SD Card Reader in BIOS solves problem! And console on these crashes is totally dead, and disks are not detected yet, so I can not look at structures in memory and/or dump core. 13.0-RELEASE installation media crashes in same way if SD reader is enabled in BIOS. -- // Lev Serebryakov ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame - 13.0-RELEASE crashes same way!
> On 07.05.2021 14:36, Lev Serebryakov wrote: > > >> ?? Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! > > ?Oh, I forgot to add: disabling SD Card Reader in BIOS solves problem! > > > > ?And console on these crashes is totally dead, and disks are not detected > > yet, so I can not look at structures in memory and/or dump core. > > 13.0-RELEASE installation media crashes in same way if SD reader is enabled > in BIOS. Is this with or without media in the SD reader? I have issues with rtsx on a Dell 5740 in that if the media in in the drive during boot it times out the rtsx probe, but after the system is up if I eject and re-insert the media it comes on line and works fine. Also if I try to boot from that media it gets all the way to mountroot, which then fails cause the device did not pass probe, but if I eject, and reinsert and then type in the path to root it does continue to boot and properly start up. -- Rod Grimes rgri...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame - 13.0-RELEASE crashes same way!
On Fri, 7 May 2021 15:01:13 +0300 Lev Serebryakov wrote: > On 07.05.2021 14:36, Lev Serebryakov wrote: > > >> Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! > > Oh, I forgot to add: disabling SD Card Reader in BIOS solves problem! > > > > And console on these crashes is totally dead, and disks are not > > detected yet, so I can not look at structures in memory and/or > > dump core. > > 13.0-RELEASE installation media crashes in same way if SD reader is > enabled in BIOS. > I see that rtsx was added to GENERIC. Might have been premature. The only thing I can recommend is to install with the SD card reader disabled in the BIOS. It may be the case that rtsx still works even if the card reader is disabled in the BIOS. That's the first thing I would try out. If that fails then generate a kernel with rtsx as a module rather than it being hard coded into the kernel. You could then re-enable the SD card reader in the BIOS and load the module to check whether the SD card reader works or causes a panic when the moduke is loaded. This approach might make it possible to get a crash dump if a problem occurs. -- Gary Jennejohn (g...@freebsd.org) ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: WSLg update on 1-5-2021 - BSD / WSL
On 07/05/2021 11:17, Rozhuk Ivan wrote: On Thu, 6 May 2021 10:57:16 +0100 David Chisnall wrote: Whether Microsoft or the FreeBSD project should do the work really comes down to who has more to gain. Windows 10 is installed on around a 1.3 billion devices and any of these users can run Ubuntu with a single click in the Microsoft Store, so it feels as if the FreeBSD project has a lot to gain from being able to reach them. Make job for free - make more money for MS. Make win10 to support more features to increase windows value... How much money? 'Making money' doesn't just mean money coming in, it means more money coming in than is going out. Adding features to a product costs money. How many people will buy Windows 10 if it has a good FreeBSD compatibility layer who wouldn't buy it without one? I very much doubt that this is a sufficient number to cover the cost of the engineering work. Microsoft, in contrast, is driven by requests from customers who spend money on our products and services. Around a hundred people commented on the WSL issue to add FreeBSD support. Ok, do you job and add FBSD support to WSL. First, this is nowhere near even related to my job. I don't work on Windows, let alone WSL. Second, I have already explained why this is not a sufficiently large market to impact engineering decisions. If you assume that 1% of people who want the feature commented, then this gives around 10,000 folks who really want a FreeBSD equivalent of WSL. They give money to MS, they ask MS to do job for money. They give money to MS, they get a Windows 10 license in return. They are happy to buy Windows without a FreeBSD compat layer. They are buying Windows on the basis of some subset of a large number of features. The lack of a FreeBSD compat layer is not preventing them from buying Windows, they have not shown that this is the deal-breaker feature. Microsoft, like any other POTS software vendor, will prioritise features that impact the most customers. There are things on User Voice with tens or hundreds of thousands of votes and these tend to be prioritised. Something with under a hundred votes is so niche that it's only going to be a target of investment if it impacts another product or service. It's pretty hard to justify a feature in Windows that only 0.001% of Windows users will use. If you want to change that arithmetic, then next time your organisation is renewing M365 or Azure service subscriptions, tell your sales rep that FreeBSD support is important to your company. There is many other hosting services that have FBSD support. So this is MS/azure problem. Azure already officially supports FreeBSD and we have contributed a load of code to improve that support over the years. From the numbers I've seen, I strongly suspect that we've spent more on it than we've gained in revenue. You are asking Microsoft to throw money at a thing that will definitely cost time and money (and comes with the associated opportunity cost, because developer time spent on this features is developer time not spent on other features) but with no clear indication that it will increase revenue. Effectively, you are asking us to do work for free and you're also doing so quite rudely. Personally, I'd love to have a FreeBSD compat layer. The license would even make it possible to embed the FreeBSD kernel in Windows and so get the best aspects of WSL1 and WSL2. From a business perspective; however, I can't argue that this would be a great use of engineer time. There are a load of features that would positively impact a lot more users that would be higher priority. If you want this to happen and you want Microsoft to do it, then you need to help people inside the company provide this business case. Things that don't help include: - I want it. - You suck for not doing it. - It would make you money in unspecified ways. Things that do help include: - We are a FreeBSD shop with 1,000 workstations, we would switch to Windows on the desktop with this feature. - We are a large cloud customer with 10,000 VMs deployed, we would switch to Azure with this feature. - We are a Windows shop with a load of desktops but are planning to switch to Macs because we want a BSD-style userland. If you just want it to happen, then you don't need Microsoft to do anything. All of the code required to build a Linux system that integrates with WSL2 is open source and you can implement something compatible for FreeBSD. You can probably even skip a bunch of the boot requirements by using Linux as a bootloader and having a tiny Linux image that just kexecs a FreeBSD kernel. David ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Building ZFS-based VM images
On 06/05/2021 16:17, Alan Somers wrote: It's easy to build a UFS-based VM image just by setting WITH_VMIMAGES in release.conf and running release.sh. But what about ZFS-based images? What's the easiest way to build a ZFS-based VM image, using a pool layout similar to what the interactive installer uses? The only way that I've deployed FreeBSD VMs in Azure has been to run the installer in Hyper-V locally and then upload it as a template. You need to be *really* careful with this mode though, because ZFS gets really confused if two pools or two VDEVs have the same UUIDs. This means that you can't just attach one VM's disk to another for recovery (I also have a UFS image that I use for recovery). It would be great if it were possible to set a flag somewhere telling the storage subsystem to regenerate the UUIDs of everything (including GPT partitions) on first boot. David ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Patch for patch, but not foreach :-)
Time has come that I make a patch for the most central patching tool in FreeBSD, patch :-) https://reviews.freebsd.org/D30160 --HPS ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame - 13.0-RELEASE crashes same way!
On 07.05.2021 16:07, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: ?? Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! ?Oh, I forgot to add: disabling SD Card Reader in BIOS solves problem! ?And console on these crashes is totally dead, and disks are not detected yet, so I can not look at structures in memory and/or dump core. 13.0-RELEASE installation media crashes in same way if SD reader is enabled in BIOS. Is this with or without media in the SD reader? It is without media in reader. I'll try with media later, as now I'm rebuilding kernel to latest CURRENT. -- // Lev Serebryakov ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame - 13.0-RELEASE crashes same way!
On 07.05.2021 16:22, Gary Jennejohn wrote: Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! Oh, I forgot to add: disabling SD Card Reader in BIOS solves problem! And console on these crashes is totally dead, and disks are not detected yet, so I can not look at structures in memory and/or dump core. 13.0-RELEASE installation media crashes in same way if SD reader is enabled in BIOS. I see that rtsx was added to GENERIC. Might have been premature. The only thing I can recommend is to install with the SD card reader disabled in the BIOS. Yep, it works. Not only install, but booting of installed system too — any GENERIC kernel panics, even new, built by hands from latest sources. It may be the case that rtsx still works even if the card reader is disabled in the BIOS. That's the first thing I would try out. Nope, it doesn't work (and I don't need it on this Laptop, to be honest). If SD reader is disabled in BIOS, it isn't detected at all. If that fails then generate a kernel with rtsx as a module rather than it being hard coded into the kernel. You could then re-enable the SD card reader in the BIOS and load the module to check whether the SD card reader works or causes a panic when the moduke is loaded. This approach might make it possible to get a crash dump if a problem occurs. Ok, I'll try this, good idea. BTW, I've got hints that it it rtsx-related only after ~40 crashes, as most of stack traces don't have rtsx in them and are very generic. Looks like rtsx mangle kernel memory and it crashes in other places/kernel threads. -- // Lev Serebryakov ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame - 13.0-RELEASE crashes same way!
On Fri, 7 May 2021 16:59:35 +0300 Lev Serebryakov wrote: > On 07.05.2021 16:22, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! > >>> Oh, I forgot to add: disabling SD Card Reader in BIOS solves problem! > >>> > >>> And console on these crashes is totally dead, and disks are not > >>> detected yet, so I can not look at structures in memory and/or > >>> dump core. > >> > >> 13.0-RELEASE installation media crashes in same way if SD reader is > >> enabled in BIOS. > >> > > > > I see that rtsx was added to GENERIC. Might have been premature. > > > > The only thing I can recommend is to install with the SD card reader > > disabled in the BIOS. > Yep, it works. Not only install, but booting of installed system too ___ > any GENERIC kernel panics, even new, built by hands from latest sources. > > > It may be the case that rtsx still works even if the card reader is > > disabled in the BIOS. That's the first thing I would try out. > Nope, it doesn't work (and I don't need it on this Laptop, to be honest). > If SD reader is disabled in BIOS, it isn't detected at all. > > > If that fails then generate a kernel with rtsx as a module rather than > > it being hard coded into the kernel. > > > > You could then re-enable the SD card reader in the BIOS and load the > > module to check whether the SD card reader works or causes a panic > > when the moduke is loaded. This approach might make it possible to > > get a crash dump if a problem occurs. > Ok, I'll try this, good idea. > > BTW, I've got hints that it it rtsx-related only after ~40 crashes, as most > of stack traces don't have rtsx in them and are very generic. Looks like rtsx > mangle kernel memory and it crashes in other places/kernel threads. > Good luck. I don't have a device with rtsx, the work I did on the driver was done with a loaner laptop. So, all I can offer is moral support :) -- Gary Jennejohn (g...@freebsd.org) ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame - 13.0-RELEASE crashes same way!
Just to add to this thread: I'm running CURRENT with rtsx device and driver and it works fine for me. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame
On 07.05.2021 13.33, Lev Serebryakov wrote: Several versions of 14-CURRENT (including FreeBSD-14.0-CURRENT-amd64-20210506-49c894ddced-246502-memstick.img) can not boot on Lenovo T540p 19 times out of 20. It crashes on device detection, after detecting sound subsystem, with traps 9 and 12 (9 is more often) and mostly with this stacktrace (9 out of 10 crashes have this stacktrace: Perhaps similar to bug reported here https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/boot-timeout-error-on-rtsx-freebsd-13-0-hp-840-g3.80031/#post-508072 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=255130 Do you happen to have an empty adapter (sd->micro sd) inserted in the slot. That causes a card-inserted interrupt, on all the realtek sd-card readers I have touched. Regards -- trap run_interrupt_driven_config_hooks() boot_run_interrupt_driven_config_hooks() mi_startup() btext() But twice I've got more interesting stacktraces: -- trap strlen() kvprintf() vsnprintf() vpanic() panic() __mtx_lock_flags() _sleep() mmc_wait_for_request() mmc_wait_for_cmd() mmc_go_discovery() mmc_delayed_attach() run_interrupt_driven_config_hooks() boot_run_interrupt_driven_config_hooks() mi_startup() btext() --- trap __mtx_lock_sleep() __mtx_lock_flags() mmc_wakeup() rtsx_intr() ithread_loop() fork_exit() fork_trampoline() Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! I've checked memory with memtest86+ for 24 hours (4.5 passes) without any problems. ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame - 13.0-RELEASE crashes same way!
On Fri, 7 May 2021 16:59:35 +0300 Lev Serebryakov wrote: > On 07.05.2021 16:22, Gary Jennejohn wrote: > > Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! > >>> Oh, I forgot to add: disabling SD Card Reader in BIOS solves problem! > >>> > >>> And console on these crashes is totally dead, and disks are not > >>> detected yet, so I can not look at structures in memory and/or > >>> dump core. > >> > >> 13.0-RELEASE installation media crashes in same way if SD reader is > >> enabled in BIOS. > >> > > > > I see that rtsx was added to GENERIC. Might have been premature. > > > > The only thing I can recommend is to install with the SD card reader > > disabled in the BIOS. > Yep, it works. Not only install, but booting of installed system too 〓 any > GENERIC kernel panics, even new, built by hands from latest sources. > > > It may be the case that rtsx still works even if the card reader is > > disabled in the BIOS. That's the first thing I would try out. > Nope, it doesn't work (and I don't need it on this Laptop, to be honest). > If SD reader is disabled in BIOS, it isn't detected at all. > > > If that fails then generate a kernel with rtsx as a module rather than > > it being hard coded into the kernel. > > > > You could then re-enable the SD card reader in the BIOS and load the > > module to check whether the SD card reader works or causes a panic > > when the moduke is loaded. This approach might make it possible to > > get a crash dump if a problem occurs. > Ok, I'll try this, good idea. > > BTW, I've got hints that it it rtsx-related only after ~40 crashes, as most > of stack traces don't have rtsx in them and are very generic. Looks like rtsx > mangle kernel memory and it crashes in other places/kernel threads. Have you try dev.rtsx.0.inversion=1 in /boot/loader.conf with the device enabled on BIOS? If not yet, it would be worth trying. In rtsx(4) manpage, > 〓 RTS522A on Lenovo P50s and Lenovo T470p, card detection and read-only > switch are reversed. This is sovled by adding in loader.conf(5): > > dev.rtsx.0.inversion=1 If it works for you, possibly no one had tested on T540p yet. And there can be much, much more PCs/chips which need it, but no one has tested yet. My rtsx driver on ThinkPad P52 works fine without it, but IIRC, paniced with it (I did it just a test purpose when it landed). And one more. If you insert write-protected card and then mount it as writable, it SHOULD certainly crash the system. It's not a rtsx driver issue, but promised to happen. I've encountered the problem on USB card readers, too. > > -- > // Lev Serebryakov > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > -- Tomoaki AOKI ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Building ZFS-based VM images
On 5/6/2021 11:17 AM, Alan Somers wrote: > It's easy to build a UFS-based VM image just by setting WITH_VMIMAGES in > release.conf and running release.sh. But what about ZFS-based images? > What's the easiest way to build a ZFS-based VM image, using a pool layout > similar to what the interactive installer uses? > -Alan > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" > With the new scripting support, it is fairly easy with poudriere-image It also has the advantage of being able to build the images from poudriere jails you already have (or can build from FTP without compiling). The pre/post build script stuff is merged already, although my example scripts are in a different pull request that I need to rebase around some restructuring first. Anyway, you can use poudriere-image with the pre/post scripts included here: https://github.com/freebsd/poudriere/pull/731/files#diff-6607907a033a4e5e5e21da56960ed7ccbfb6dd4a85d66615553d2221d75c0998 and it will make a VM image with the same layout as if you had used the installer (or you can customize it as you see fit) I'm currently using this to build images for AWS and bhyve, but also to generate installer ISOs that run a script to format the drives and create the zpool, then 'fetch -o - url | zfs recv -F zroot' to install a replication stream of an entire pool. For upgrades, we do the same but only replace the boot environment. -- Allan Jude ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame
On Fri, 7 May 2021 14:33:27 +0300 Lev Serebryakov wrote: > > Several versions of 14-CURRENT (including > FreeBSD-14.0-CURRENT-amd64-20210506-49c894ddced-246502-memstick.img) can not > boot on Lenovo T540p 19 times out of 20. > > It crashes on device detection, after detecting sound subsystem, ...[snip] Hi Lev, Just my story with SDCARD Reader. I own a HP Elitebook 2170p. It crashed also with any Release i had used on it. Adding hw.sdhci.quirk_set="1" hw.sdhci.quirk_clear="1" hw.sdhci.enable_msi="0" to /boot/device.hints solved the problem and the reader is usable, with GENERIC Kernel. -cheers -- Daniel Dowse ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Patch for patch, but not foreach :-)
On Fri, May 07, 2021 at 03:49:00PM +0200, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > Time has come that I make a patch for the most central patching tool in > FreeBSD, patch :-) > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D30160 As stupid as it sounds, '*' is a valid filename. -- Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: WSLg update on 1-5-2021 - BSD / WSL
On Fri, 7 May 2021 14:31:39 +0100 David Chisnall wrote: > >> Whether Microsoft or the FreeBSD project should do the work really > >> comes down to who has more to gain. Windows 10 is installed on > >> around a 1.3 billion devices and any of these users can run Ubuntu > >> with a single click in the Microsoft Store, so it feels as if the > >> FreeBSD project has a lot to gain from being able to reach them. > > > > Make job for free - make more money for MS. > > Make win10 to support more features to increase windows value... > > How much money? 'Making money' doesn't just mean money coming in, it > means more money coming in than is going out. Adding features to a > product costs money. How many people will buy Windows 10 if it has a > good FreeBSD compatibility layer who wouldn't buy it without one? I > very much doubt that this is a sufficient number to cover the cost of > the engineering work. This is MS management problems. Adding support WSL code will not make FBSD users happy, there is mush more actual issues that require attention. IMHO. > >> If you assume > >> that 1% of people who want the feature commented, then this gives > >> around 10,000 folks who really want a FreeBSD equivalent of WSL. > > > > They give money to MS, they ask MS to do job for money. > > They give money to MS, they get a Windows 10 license in return. They > are happy to buy Windows without a FreeBSD compat layer. They are > buying Windows on the basis of some subset of a large number of > features. The lack of a FreeBSD compat layer is not preventing them > from buying Windows, they have not shown that this is the > deal-breaker feature. Because MS is monopoly on OS market. For most peolpes there is no other way to buy PC/notebook without windows, and no other way to use some software that was written for windows only. > Microsoft, like any other POTS software vendor, will prioritise > features that impact the most customers. There are things on User > Voice with tens or hundreds of thousands of votes and these tend to > be prioritised. Something with under a hundred votes is so niche that > it's only going to be a target of investment if it impacts another > product or service. >From mine experience MS listen only custommers from big b2b and b2gov. Millions of users hate post win7 gui - see no reaction from ms. > >> It's pretty hard to justify a feature in Windows that only 0.001% > >> of Windows users will use. If you want to change that arithmetic, > >> then next time your organisation is renewing M365 or Azure service > >> subscriptions, tell your sales rep that FreeBSD support is > >> important to your company. > > > > There is many other hosting services that have FBSD support. > > So this is MS/azure problem. > > Azure already officially supports FreeBSD and we have contributed a > load of code to improve that support over the years. From the > numbers I've seen, I strongly suspect that we've spent more on it > than we've gained in revenue. Ok, thanks! > You are asking Microsoft to throw money at a thing that will > definitely cost time and money (and comes with the associated > opportunity cost, because developer time spent on this features is > developer time not spent on other features) but with no clear > indication that it will increase revenue. Effectively, you are > asking us to do work for free and you're also doing so quite rudely. No, I do not ask MS for anything. If MS want something - patches/pull requests/sponsoring are welcome! > Personally, I'd love to have a FreeBSD compat layer. The license > would even make it possible to embed the FreeBSD kernel in Windows > and so get the best aspects of WSL1 and WSL2. From a business > perspective; however, I can't argue that this would be a great use of > engineer time. There are a load of features that would positively > impact a lot more users that would be higher priority. Same for FBSD. FBSD have very limited peoples power and more prioritized tasks, at least from my point of view. May be you luck to find some one who can, have time and motivation to do this. > If you want this to happen and you want Microsoft to do it, then you > need to help people inside the company provide this business case. > Things that don't help include: > > - I want it. > - You suck for not doing it. > - It would make you money in unspecified ways. > > Things that do help include: > > - We are a FreeBSD shop with 1,000 workstations, we would switch to > Windows on the desktop with this feature. > - We are a large cloud customer with 10,000 VMs deployed, we would > switch to Azure with this feature. > - We are a Windows shop with a load of desktops but are planning to > switch to Macs because we want a BSD-style userland. This is examples of negative motivation for this community. :) ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mail
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame
On 07.05.2021 19:09, Jesper Schmitz Mouridsen wrote: On 07.05.2021 13.33, Lev Serebryakov wrote: Several versions of 14-CURRENT (including FreeBSD-14.0-CURRENT-amd64-20210506-49c894ddced-246502-memstick.img) can not boot on Lenovo T540p 19 times out of 20. It crashes on device detection, after detecting sound subsystem, with traps 9 and 12 (9 is more often) and mostly with this stacktrace (9 out of 10 crashes have this stacktrace: Perhaps similar to bug reported here https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/boot-timeout-error-on-rtsx-freebsd-13-0-hp-840-g3.80031/#post-508072 https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=255130 Maybe, it is same bug, maybe there are two bugs. Looks like on my hardware rtsx corrupts kernel memory: most crashes are in another place. Do you happen to have an empty adapter (sd->micro sd) inserted in the slot. That causes a card-inserted interrupt, on all the realtek sd-card readers I have touched. Nope, slot is empty. I'll try this combination too :). -- // Lev Serebryakov ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame - 13.0-RELEASE crashes same way!
On 07.05.2021 19:34, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: Have you try dev.rtsx.0.inversion=1 in /boot/loader.conf with the device enabled on BIOS? Not yet :-) I'll try. If not yet, it would be worth trying. In rtsx(4) manpage, 〓 RTS522A on Lenovo P50s and Lenovo T470p, card detection and read-only switch are reversed. This is sovled by adding in loader.conf(5): dev.rtsx.0.inversion=1 If it works for you, possibly no one had tested on T540p yet. And there can be much, much more PCs/chips which need it, but no one has tested yet. My rtsx driver on ThinkPad P52 works fine without it, but IIRC, paniced with it (I did it just a test purpose when it landed). And one more. If you insert write-protected card and then mount it as writable, it SHOULD certainly crash the system. It's not a rtsx driver issue, but promised to happen. I've encountered the problem on USB card readers, too. My slot is empty, no card, no adapters, no plastic pseudo-card, nothing. -- // Lev Serebryakov ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: WSLg update on 1-5-2021 - BSD / WSL
David Chisnall (thera...@freebsd.org) wrote: > On 03/05/2021 22:37, Pete Wright via freebsd-current wrote: > > On 5/1/21 12:42 PM, Chargen wrote: > >> Dear all > >> > >> please note that I hope this message will be discussed to get this on the > >> roadmap for FreeBSD. Perhaps there is already talk about && work done on > >> that. > >> I would like to suggest having a BSD side for Microsoft FOSS ambitions > >> and > >> get to know the BSD license. I hope the tech people here, know which nuts > >> and bolts would be ready to boot a *BSD subsystem kernel and make that > >> available on Windows 10 installations. > > > > I believe most of the effort make this happen lies with Microsoft - it > > is their product after all. > > > > WSL under the covers is Hyper-V which supports FreeBSD pretty well. I > > believe most of the work would be on the Windows side to get the > > plumbing in place to spin up a FreeBSD VM. There are open discussions > > on the WSL github system where people have asked for this but it has not > > gained much traction by Microsoft. > > [ Disclaimer: I work for Microsoft, but not on WSL and this is my own > opinion ] > > WSL is actually two things. WSL1 is similar to the FreeBSD Linuxulator: > it is a Linux syscall ABI in the NT kernel that implements *NIX > abstractions that are not present in NT and forwards other things to > corresponding NT subsystems. Like the Linuxulator, it lacks a bunch of > features (e.g. seccomp-bpf support, which is required for things like > Docker and Chrome) and is always playing catch-up with Linux. I'd > personally love to see a FreeBSD version of this (though I'd be 90% > happy if ^T did the *BSD thing), but it's something that only Microsoft > can do and is currently quite difficult because the picoprocess > abstraction in the NT kernel only allows one kind of picoprocess and so > it would need to add a new abstraction layer to support both. > > WSL2 is a lightweight Hyper-V VM that is set up to integrate tightly > with the host. This includes: > > - Aggressively using the memory ballooning driver so that a VM can > start with a very small amount of committed memory and grow as needed. > > - Using Hyper-V sockets to forward things between the guest and the host. > > - Using 9p-over-VMBus (which, I hope, will eventually become > VirtIO-over-VMBus, but I don't know of any concrete plans for this) to > expose filesystems from the host to the fuest) > > - Starting using the LCOW infrastructure, which loads the kernel > directly rather than going via an emulated UEFI boot process. > > FreeBSD is currently missing the balloon driver, I believe, has a > Hyper-V socket implementation contributed by Microsoft (Wei Hu), and has > a 9p-over-VirtIO implementation that could probably be tweaked fairly > easily to do 9p-over-VMBus. > > The WSL2 infrastructure is designed to make it possible to bring your > own kernel. I think FreeBSD would need to support the Linux boot > protocol (initial memory layout, mechanism for passing kernel arguments > in memory) to fit into this infrastructure, but that wouldn't require > any changes to any closed-source components. Hi David, Do you have links to the documentation on how to replace the kernel and the boot protocols? Or any documentation for WSL2 internals? Thanks -- gonzo ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: CURRENT crashes at early boot on Lenovo T540p: rtsx to blame - 13.0-RELEASE crashes same way!
On 5/7/21 2:01 PM, Lev Serebryakov wrote: On 07.05.2021 14:36, Lev Serebryakov wrote: Looks like there is problem with rtsx driver! Oh, I forgot to add: disabling SD Card Reader in BIOS solves problem! And console on these crashes is totally dead, and disks are not detected yet, so I can not look at structures in memory and/or dump core. 13.0-RELEASE installation media crashes in same way if SD reader is enabled in BIOS. During kernel boot hit space. At prompt try set hint.rtsx.0.disabled="1" boot show if it save your boot to 13.0 Henri ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Patch for patch, but not foreach :-)
Replace '*' with ^T perhaps and catch SIGINFO? 🤔 -Max On Fri., May 7, 2021, 10:11 a.m. Shawn Webb, wrote: > On Fri, May 07, 2021 at 03:49:00PM +0200, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: > > Time has come that I make a patch for the most central patching tool in > > FreeBSD, patch :-) > > > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D30160 > > As stupid as it sounds, '*' is a valid filename. > > -- > Shawn Webb > Cofounder / Security Engineer > HardenedBSD > > > https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc > ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Patch for patch, but not foreach :-)
What about using "."? Or "/" (which would match the muscle memory of "search" in less/more/vi/some browsers)? -m > On 7. May 2021, at 23:05, Maxim Sobolev wrote: > > Replace '*' with ^T perhaps and catch SIGINFO? 🤔 > > -Max > >> On Fri., May 7, 2021, 10:11 a.m. Shawn Webb, >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, May 07, 2021 at 03:49:00PM +0200, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: >>> Time has come that I make a patch for the most central patching tool in >>> FreeBSD, patch :-) >>> >>> https://reviews.freebsd.org/D30160 >> >> As stupid as it sounds, '*' is a valid filename. >> >> -- >> Shawn Webb >> Cofounder / Security Engineer >> HardenedBSD >> >> >> https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc >> > ___ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Patch for patch, but not foreach :-)
On 2021-05-07 14:10, Michael Gmelin wrote: What about using "."? Or "/" (which would match the muscle memory of "search" in less/more/vi/some browsers)? +1 I really like that idea. --Chris -m On 7. May 2021, at 23:05, Maxim Sobolev wrote: Replace '*' with ^T perhaps and catch SIGINFO? 🤔 -Max On Fri., May 7, 2021, 10:11 a.m. Shawn Webb, wrote: On Fri, May 07, 2021 at 03:49:00PM +0200, Hans Petter Selasky wrote: Time has come that I make a patch for the most central patching tool in FreeBSD, patch :-) https://reviews.freebsd.org/D30160 As stupid as it sounds, '*' is a valid filename. -- Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Loading zfs module results in hangup on i386 (Re: Install of 13.0-RELEASE i386 with ZFS root hangs up)
From: Yasuhiro Kimura Subject: Install of 13.0-RELEASE i386 with ZFS root hangs up Date: Fri, 07 May 2021 21:47:59 +0900 (JST) > Hello, > > Does anyone succeed to install 13.0-RELEASE i386 with ZFS root? > > I tried this with VirtualBox and VMware Player on Windows with > following VM condition. > > * 4 CPUs > * 8GB memory > * 100GB disk > * Bridge mode NIC > > But in both cases, VM gets high CPU load and hangs up after I moved > to 'YES' at 'ZFS Configuration' menu and type return key. > > If I select UFS root installation completes successfully. So the > problem is specific to ZFS root. Now I think I know what is the source of problem. After all, on 13.0-RELEASE i386 system simply loading zfs module results in system hang up. The steps to reproduce it are, 1. Boot with install media of 13.0-RELEASE i386 2. At the first menu of FreeBSD installer, select 'Shell'. 3. At the shell prompt, type `kldload zfs` and return key. I confirmed hangup happens with VirtualBox, VMware Player and my bare metal PC environement. So the problem doesn't depend on hardware. And hangup also happens with 13-STABLE and 14-CURRENT. --- Yasuhiro Kimura ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Loading zfs module results in hangup on i386
From: Yasuhiro Kimura Subject: Loading zfs module results in hangup on i386 (Re: Install of 13.0-RELEASE i386 with ZFS root hangs up) Date: Sat, 08 May 2021 07:31:47 +0900 (JST) > Now I think I know what is the source of problem. After all, on > 13.0-RELEASE i386 system simply loading zfs module results in system > hang up. > > The steps to reproduce it are, > > 1. Boot with install media of 13.0-RELEASE i386 > 2. At the first menu of FreeBSD installer, select 'Shell'. > 3. At the shell prompt, type `kldload zfs` and return key. > > I confirmed hangup happens with VirtualBox, VMware Player and my bare > metal PC environement. So the problem doesn't depend on hardware. > > And hangup also happens with 13-STABLE and 14-CURRENT. This problem is already reported to Bugzilla. Bug 254177 When ZFS is recognized, An i386 machine with a lot of memory hangs. https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=254177 --- Yasuhiro Kimura ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: linking to git revisions in bugzilla
Yuri Pankov (yur...@freebsd.org) wrote: > Oleksandr Tymoshenko wrote: > > Kubilay Kocak (ko...@freebsd.org) wrote: > >> On 12/04/2021 9:02 am, Yuri Pankov wrote: > >>> While filing a bug, I noticed that the help only mentions svn revision > >>> numbers, and "Preview" tab had no output when I tried putting "base > >>> ", so I'm wondering how do you link to git revisions? > >> > >> We'll (bugmeister) be adding parsing support for it (along with a few > >> other related auto-linking things) > >> > >> I'd encourage people to use " " (repo = src|doc|ports) > >> where short hash is at least 8 chars in the meantime. Once parsing is > >> added all previous references will be linked. > > > > Links to git hashes should work now, please test and let us > > know if feature works as expected. As Michael mentioned - preview > > is a different matter, I'll try to look into it later. > > Hi Oleksandr, > > It seems to work except when the git hash starts with a digit, it then > tries to link to subversion revision using all available digits at the > start of the hash. Or, at least, that's what I'm seeing in preview tab, > not sure if it has been fixed yet? This should be fixed now. If there is an example where it doesn't work please post it to this PR: https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=255682 Thank you -- gonzo ___ freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
