Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[Daniel Kalchev]

On 24.02.14 19:49, Mark Felder wrote:

We can strip pieces of FreeBSD off and end up with an kernel. Or we
could keep the system very much usable out of the box.


Imagine a world where everything in FreeBSD is a package and we have a
working "PROVIDES" framework. Upon installation you can choose the
software that "provides" the MTA role. Same for DNS, NTP, database,
webserver... That would be a great accomplishment along with a framework
to create a master install image utilizing the options/packages you
desire. I think this type of thing is definitely plausible if we keep
moving forward. My personal opinion remains that complex software is
better served/secured/maintained when it is handled in ports not in
base.



While I agree with all you say, it is worth noting that 
bind/sendmail/ntp have been very compatible with FreeBSD precisely 
because of their integration with the base system.


What we risk with "everything is a port" concept is that we live in a 
world that there is a lot of software to chose from, but from time to 
time, the software happens to be incompatible with FreeBSD in one way, 
or another. Another risk is the confusion of too much choice.


There is a fine balance to be found here.

Daniel
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Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[David Chisnall]

On 25 Feb 2014, at 08:09, Daniel Kalchev  wrote:

> What we risk with "everything is a port" concept is that we live in a world 
> that there is a lot of software to chose from, but from time to time, the 
> software happens to be incompatible with FreeBSD in one way, or another. 
> Another risk is the confusion of too much choice.

I think that, over the next few years, the hard line between base system and 
ports is going to become a little bit more of a gradient.  I would like us to 
end up with multiple tiers:

1) These packages are required for absolutely everything, don't even think 
about not installing them even in a minimal service jail.

2) These packages are required for a useable system.  They're in the default 
install, but if you're creating a jail you might not want them (e.g. nvi, some 
of the management tools) because you'll be doing all of your configuration with 
the version in the base system.

3) These packages are maintained by the FreeBSD project and are expected to 
integrate well with the base system.  Some of them are part of various 
recommended installs for different configurations (e.g. graphical workstation, 
web server, whatever), but you can have a working minimal install without any 
of them.  They will be supported for the duration of the release, including 
prompt security updates.  

4) These packages are third-party programs that have been tested with FreeBSD 
and packaged by members of the FreeBSD project, but are developed 
independently.  They will be supported on a best-effort basis for the release, 
but you may find that upgrading to a new version requires a newer release at 
some point.

5) These packages are provided by third parties, on third-party repositories, 
with no involvement from anyone in the FreeBSD project.  

Currently, the base system overlaps tiers 1-3, and ports overlaps tiers 3-4.  
Tier 3 is the source of most bikesheds, because there are lots of things that 
would benefit from some FreeBSD-specific integration work, are essential to a 
large section of the FreeBSD userbase, but are completely irrelevant to another 
large section.  

David

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Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[Baptiste Daroussin]

On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:50:10PM +0100, Jilles Tjoelker wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 07:01:54PM +0400, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 03:30:14PM +0100, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> 
> > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 06:17:37PM +0400, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 10:11:56PM +0100, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> 
> > > > > As some of you may have noticed, I have imorted a couple of days
> > > > > ago dma (DragonFly Mail Agent) in base. I have been asked to
> > > > > explain my motivation so here they are.
> 
> > > > What's about suid, security separations & etc?
> 
> > > What do you mean? dma is changing user as soon as possible, dma will
> > > be capsicumized, what else do you want as informations?
> 
> > sendmail (in the past) have same behaviour (run as root and chage
> > user).
> > This is some security risk.
> > For many  scenario change user is not simple (for example -- send file
> > from local user A to local user B, file with permsion 0400).
> > sendmail will be forced to change behaviour -- mailnull suid program
> > for place mail into queue and root daemon for deliver to user.
> > This is more complex.
> > Can be dma avoid this way?
> 
> I'm a bit disappointed that dma uses setuid/setgid binaries, although it
> is not a regression because sendmail also uses this Unix misfeature.
> 
> To avoid the large attack surface of set*id binaries (the untrusted user
> can set many process parameters, pass strange file descriptors, send
> signals, etc), I think it is better to implement trusted submission
> differently. A privileged daemon (not necessarily running as root) can
> listen on a Unix domain socket and use getpeereid(3) to verify the
> credentials of the client.
> 
As long as $anyone locally can send emails, what is the point of checking
getpeereid(3)?

regards,
Bapt


pgpqGMk_yxaRE.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: Build failed in Jenkins: FreeBSD_HEAD #176

[Hans Petter Selasky]

Hi,

The build failure should be fixed yesterday:

http://svnweb.freebsd.org/base?view=revision&revision=262454

I forgot to test using "clang" compiler before committing.

--HPS


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Jenkins build is back to normal : FreeBSD_HEAD #177

[jenkins-admin]

See 

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Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[Thomas Mueller]

from Julio Merino:

> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 6:47 AM, Thomas Mueller
> wrote:

> > To Julio Merino:  How long did NetBSD include both sendmail and postfix in
> > base?  What NetBSD releases?  What was the first release that included both
> > sendmail and postfix, and the first release where sendmail was dropped?

> As far as I can tell, postfix was added in NetBSD 1.5 (Dec 6, 2000), made
> the default in NetBSD 2.0 (Dec 9, 2004) and sendmail was removed in NetBSD
> 4.0 (Dec 19, 2007). That's a 7-year long transitional period.

> I haven't been able to find the discussion for the removal of sendmail
> unfortunately.

Oldest NetBSD I still have installed is 4.0.1 i386.  

I had no 64-bit computer at that time.

I don't know if NetBSD 4.0.1 i386 would connect on my current Ethernet Realtek 
8111E.

Postfix seems somewhat more user-friendly than sendmail, though I still got 
error sending mail, apparently because user name didn't match computer hostname.

There needs to be better documentation of sendmail if it is to be kept, and the 
option to compile sendmail for fuller function including SSL and TLS.

I hope dma will be well documented as to setup if it is imported into FreeBSD.
 
Tom

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Re: Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[Matthias Meyser]

Am 24.02.2014 15:56, schrieb Daniel Kalchev:


On 24.02.14 13:47, Thomas Mueller wrote:

I don't believe BSD users use base system of itself to send and receive
email.  They use ports (FreeBSD) or equivalent in other BSDs.


One of the beauties of the BSD 'base system' is that upon installation you
have an usable workstation/server environment that can be immediately used
for most Internet-related tasks -- and this most certainly includes SMTP. Or
NTP. Or... used to include DNS.
We can strip pieces of FreeBSD off and end up with an kernel. Or we could
keep the system very much usable out of the box.


+1!

and I want nsupdate back in base.

   Matthias

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Tel.:  +49-5323-9489050| 38678 Clausthal-Zellerfeld, Marktstrasse 40
Fax:   +49-5323-94014  | Registergericht: Amtsgericht Braunschweig HRB 
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Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[RW]

On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 19:24:02 -0500 (EST)
Benjamin Kaduk wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
> 
> >
> > What would really help is if the ports fetch-recursive-list target
> > could extend to reliably include the distfiles for the runtime
> > dependencies as well.  But I'm not even sure that's possible.  We
> > tried a few different things, but in the end we had to brute force
> > it by running 'make fetch' in every one of the ports directories in
> > order to get all the distfiles onto an external system, which we
> > then rsynced to a USB drive, marched inside, and rsynced to the
> > fileserver.  Not pretty ... but with all the distfiles at hand we
> > knew the inside ports builds wouldn't fail due to missing
> > dependencies.
> 
> I'm rather confused by why it isn't working for you. 
> http://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/Mk/bsd.port.mk?revision=345884&view=markup#l5187
>  
> is quite clearly looking in ALL-DEPENDS-LIST, which includes runtime 
> dependencies.  The only thing I can think of is that non-default 
> configurations are in play, so that 'make config && make
> config-recursive' should be (re-)run until it does not prompt, and
> only then fetch-recursive-list be used.  


One oddity is that fetch-recursive-list generates a script that
downloads all the files into the current directory. It doesn't take
account of the fact that some ports look for their files are in a
sub-directory. 
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Fw: pkgng and pkgdb

[gahn]

hi, all:

i used to use "pkgdb -Ff" along with old wonderful "pkg_whatever" to keep my 
freebsd station healthy. but i was told the new era of pkg is coming and so i 
made switch to pkgng.

the question is: what is the equivalent of "pkgdb -Ff"? for pkg?

for "pkgdb -Ff", i am especially fond of its ability to fix those duplicated 
registrations. is the "pkg check -dB -av" the same as that "pkgdb -Ff"?

thanks.
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Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[Michel Talon]

Thomas Mueller wrote

> There needs to be better documentation of sendmail if it is to be kept, and 
> the option to compile sendmail for fuller function including 
>SSL and TLS

Apparently sendmail is compiled with ssl/tls support in FreeBSD, standard. This 
is what i get by sending mail from my
freshly installed FreeBSD-10 machine niobe to the lab's mailhub (running 
postfix)

Received: from niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr 
[134.157.10.41])
(using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits))
(Client CN "niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr", Issuer "niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr" 
(not
verified))
by parthe.lpthe.jussieu.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18143E4DE9
and indeed i see

niobe% telnet localhost 25
Trying 127.0.0.1...
Connected to localhost.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr ESMTP Sendmail 8.14.7/8.14.7; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 
16:41:11 +0100 (CET)
ehlo lpthe.jussieu.fr
250-niobe.lpthe.jussieu.fr Hello localhost [127.0.0.1], pleased to meet you
250-ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
250-PIPELINING
250-8BITMIME
250-SIZE
250-DSN
250-ETRN
250-STARTTLS
250-DELIVERBY
250 HELP
There is a directory /etc/mail/certs with various certs, presumably self 
signed, which has been created at installation.



--

Michel Talon
ta...@lpthe.jussieu.fr







smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[Darren Pilgrim]

On 2/24/2014 6:56 AM, Daniel Kalchev wrote:

One of the many problems with removing functionality is very well
illustrated by what happens now, when you upgrade an pre-10 system
running nameserver: you end up without it and eventually without your
nameserver database as well. Imagine, one day a user updates their
10-stable to 11-stable only to find out mail is no more.


I understand your point, but that would mean they didn't read the 
release notes or UPGRADING prior to doing so.  That is not a problem we 
can fix in software.

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Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[Jilles Tjoelker]

On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 11:30:56AM +0100, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 11:50:10PM +0100, Jilles Tjoelker wrote:
> > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 07:01:54PM +0400, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
> > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 03:30:14PM +0100, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:

> > > > On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 06:17:37PM +0400, Slawa Olhovchenkov wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 10:11:56PM +0100, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:

> > > > > > As some of you may have noticed, I have imorted a couple of days
> > > > > > ago dma (DragonFly Mail Agent) in base. I have been asked to
> > > > > > explain my motivation so here they are.

> > > > > What's about suid, security separations & etc?

> > > > What do you mean? dma is changing user as soon as possible, dma will
> > > > be capsicumized, what else do you want as informations?

> > > sendmail (in the past) have same behaviour (run as root and chage
> > > user).
> > > This is some security risk.
> > > For many  scenario change user is not simple (for example -- send file
> > > from local user A to local user B, file with permsion 0400).
> > > sendmail will be forced to change behaviour -- mailnull suid program
> > > for place mail into queue and root daemon for deliver to user.
> > > This is more complex.
> > > Can be dma avoid this way?

> > I'm a bit disappointed that dma uses setuid/setgid binaries, although it
> > is not a regression because sendmail also uses this Unix misfeature.

> > To avoid the large attack surface of set*id binaries (the untrusted user
> > can set many process parameters, pass strange file descriptors, send
> > signals, etc), I think it is better to implement trusted submission
> > differently. A privileged daemon (not necessarily running as root) can
> > listen on a Unix domain socket and use getpeereid(3) to verify the
> > credentials of the client.

> As long as $anyone locally can send emails, what is the point of
> checking getpeereid(3)?

Checking getpeereid(3) is useful to provide a more reliable indication
of which user account originated the message, for example on web hosting
servers. For this, it is best if the smarthost authenticates dma so a
user cannot bypass dma.

-- 
Jilles Tjoelker
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Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[Darren Pilgrim]

On 2/24/2014 6:56 AM, Daniel Kalchev wrote:


On 24.02.14 13:47, Thomas Mueller wrote:

I don't believe BSD users use base system of itself to send and receive email.  
They use ports (FreeBSD) or equivalent in other BSDs.


One of the beauties of the BSD 'base system' is that upon installation
you have an usable workstation/server environment that can be
immediately used for most Internet-related tasks -- and this most
certainly includes SMTP. Or NTP. Or... used to include DNS.


Your beautiful base system ready for most Internet-related tasks does 
not have a:


- GUI
- browser
- media player
- email client
- IRC client
- office suite

I'm wondering what you consider "most" internet tasks.  If I want a 
basic internet desktop, I need to install a couple hundred ports to 
achieve that.


If I want a server that follows best practices, I have to install 
openssl from ports, which means I *can't* use the in-base sendmail even 
if I wanted to.

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Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[Mark Felder]

On Tue, Feb 25, 2014, at 10:07, Michel Talon wrote:
> Thomas Mueller wrote
> 
> > There needs to be better documentation of sendmail if it is to be kept, and 
> > the option to compile sendmail for fuller function including 
> >SSL and TLS
> 
> Apparently sendmail is compiled with ssl/tls support in FreeBSD,
> standard. This is what i get by sending mail from my
> freshly installed FreeBSD-10 machine niobe to the lab's mailhub (running
> postfix)
> 

Yes, however the Sendmail in base on FreeBSD 8 and 9 is compiled against
OpenSSL < 1.0 which means it's missing support for TLS 1.2, SNI, and
other modern best practice features.
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Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[olli hauer]

On 2014-02-25 16:31, RW wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014 19:24:02 -0500 (EST)
> Benjamin Kaduk wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> What would really help is if the ports fetch-recursive-list target
>>> could extend to reliably include the distfiles for the runtime
>>> dependencies as well.  But I'm not even sure that's possible.  We
>>> tried a few different things, but in the end we had to brute force
>>> it by running 'make fetch' in every one of the ports directories in
>>> order to get all the distfiles onto an external system, which we
>>> then rsynced to a USB drive, marched inside, and rsynced to the
>>> fileserver.  Not pretty ... but with all the distfiles at hand we
>>> knew the inside ports builds wouldn't fail due to missing
>>> dependencies.
>>
>> I'm rather confused by why it isn't working for you. 
>> http://svnweb.freebsd.org/ports/head/Mk/bsd.port.mk?revision=345884&view=markup#l5187
>>  
>> is quite clearly looking in ALL-DEPENDS-LIST, which includes runtime 
>> dependencies.  The only thing I can think of is that non-default 
>> configurations are in play, so that 'make config && make
>> config-recursive' should be (re-)run until it does not prompt, and
>> only then fetch-recursive-list be used.  
> 
> 
> One oddity is that fetch-recursive-list generates a script that
> downloads all the files into the current directory. It doesn't take
> account of the fact that some ports look for their files are in a
> sub-directory. 


Some snippets from a script that is used to manage updates,
tinderboxe builds, poudriere builds ...


I collected all ports that are required to build my environments
from tinderbox (./tc listPorts) and others in a plain txt file.
in the format $cat/$port.

...
databases/php5-pdo
databases/php5-pdo_mysql
databases/php5-pdo_pgsql
databases/php5-pdo_sqlite
databases/php5-pgsql
databases/postgresql92-client
databases/postgresql92-server
databases/postgresql93-client
databases/postgresql93-server
databases/py-gdbm
databases/rrdtool
databases/rrdtool12
databases/sqlite3
...


Reading this file in a loop with a command like the following
will fetch all required distfiles.

while read port; do
  env -i WRKDIRPREFIX=/tmp/rbtrash PKG_DBDIR=/var/empty \
   LOCALBASE=/var/empty make fetch -DBATCH -C /usr/ports/${port} \
   -DCLEAN_FETCH_ENV -DDISABLE_CONFLICTS
done < $path/to/interesting/port/list


A list of all required dependency's can be generated with this command
(for a single port or in the sample loop (s/fetch/all-depends-list/)

$> make all-depends-list /usr/ports/$cat/${port}


Ports tree updates (portsnap or svn up) are written to a log which is used
to generate a list of ports where the distfile is maybe missing, the loop
reads then only this new list.

The directory with all distfiles is distributed via httpd to all build
systems (make.conf: MASTER_SITE_OVERRIDE=$central/fetch/server/url )


Hope this gives some ideas ;)

-- 
olli
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FREEBSD 10 - Error on Fetch (portsnap or freebsd-update)

[Alisson]

Hi.

i`m trying to update my FreeBSD 10 Release to Stable, but i`m not getting
to fetch on portsnap and freebsd-update

look:

#  portsnap --debug fetch

Looking up portsnap.FreeBSD.org mirrors... 7 mirrors found.

Fetching snapshot tag from your-org.portsnap.freebsd.org...

snapshot.ssl0% of  256  B0  Bps
02m00s


fetch: transfer timed out

fetch: snapshot.ssl appears to be truncated: 0/256 bytes

Error reading input Data

invalid snapshot tag.


Fetching snapshot tag from isc.portsnap.freebsd.org...

snapshot.ssl  100% of  256  B  690 kBps
00m00s

done.

Fetching snapshot metadata...

009cb897995b7e322bb3b0495ac9a1a01c1ba82280c687  0% of  604  B0  Bps
02m00s

fetch: transfer timed out

fetch: 009cb897995b7e322bb3b0495ac9a1a01c1ba82280c687b30f84f782f280dc7b
appears to be truncated: 0/604 bytes

Exit 1

-- 
Att.
Alisson F. Gonçalves
Consultoria em BGP/FreeBSD/Redes
-
"Grandes realizações não são feitas por impulso, mas por uma soma de
pequenas realizações."
(Vincent Van Gogh)

E-mail: alissongoncal...@bsd.com.br
Celular/Whatsapp: (67) 9694-3243
Skype: alissonx2
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Re: Import of DragonFly Mail Agent

[John-Mark Gurney]

Bryan Drewery wrote this message on Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 09:40 -0600:
> The RC script also leads to much confusion in this configuration:
> 
> > # service sendmail stop
> > Stopping sendmail.
> > Waiting for PIDS: 80956.
> > sendmail_submit not running? (check /var/run/sendmail.pid).
> > Stopping sendmail_clientmqueue.
> > Waiting for PIDS: 81322.
> 
> It wasn't running? Was it broken? Is that why I couldn't send mail?
> 
> > # service sendmail start
> > Cannot 'start' sendmail. Set sendmail_enable to YES in /etc/rc.conf or use 
> > 'onestart' instead of 'start'.
> 
> Oh, it didn't start?
> 
> >  # ps uaxw|grep sendmail
> > root   64518  0.0  0.1  6020  2980  ??  Ss   10:19AM   0:00.00 
> > sendmail: accepting connections (sendmail)
> > smmsp  64726  0.0  0.1  6020  2924  ??  Ss   10:19AM   0:00.00 
> > sendmail: Queue runner@00:30:00 for /var/spool/clientmqueue (sendmail)
> 
> Oh.
> 
> Can I restart?
> 
> > # service sendmail restart
> > Cannot 'restart' sendmail. Set sendmail_enable to YES in /etc/rc.conf or 
> > use 'onerestart' instead of 'restart'.
> > Stopping sendmail_submit.
> 
> Oh it looks dead again.
> 
> >  # ps uaxw|grep sendmail
> > smmsp  64726  0.0  0.0  6020 0  ??  IWs  - 0:00.00 
> > sendmail: Queue runner@00:30:00 for /var/spool/clientmqueue (sendmail)
> > root   88210  0.0  0.1  6020  3008  ??  Ss   10:20AM   0:00.00 
> > sendmail: accepting connections (sendmail)
> > root   93369  0.0  0.1  3464  1296  18  S+   10:20AM   0:00.00 grep 
> > sendmail
> 
> Nope.
> 
> RC script bugs aside, how about modifying the actual configuration?

The problem with the above is that the people who did the work did
enough for it to work in their configuration and dropped it in..
Having recently fixed some of this, it's clear that they didn't bother
to test starting/stopping parts of sendmail and more complicated
configurations...

This is standard stuff that needs to be maintained... and I don't belive
dma will magicly fix stuff like the above...  It just means someone will
rewrite it with a new set of bugs...

-- 
  John-Mark Gurney  Voice: +1 415 225 5579

 "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."
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