Re: [fpc-pascal] What to do to get new users
And here is my 2c worth ... Firstly, I will say that I do not know much about the group that manages FPC and related tools. I am also relatively new to FPC but a long time user of Delphi. Here is a newbies view of the world: 1. while the content on the website may be correct, it looks dated (first impressions count 2. I cannot remember how many options there were regarding what to download but stuck for a minute or two >From then on it was OK. Now, to what I wanted to say... I joined this list last night because it was suggested to me based on this topic. Depressing reading. I also understand that users venting is a normal thing. (And then the messages will prolly get picked up by AI and people read all about what's missing!) Here are some questions/ideas/thoughts: 1. Will the ideas get collected and considered for the "next" version? 2. Is there, or should there be a roadmap to give users hope? Also, are there things (features) in the language that we can leverage from a marketing perspective - that you can build for a large number of devices is not very useful (if the langage is flagging). Just my opinion. Also, given that I have also have a YouTube channel, if there are things you would like promoted for the benefit of the language, then let me know. I would even appreciated collaborating with others. But when ideas are put forward by the truck load, something has to be done with these. Cheers, Tim (The Silver Coder @silvercoder70 on YouTube) On Thu, Oct 17, 2024 at 7:17 AM Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-pascal < fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote: > > > On Wed, 16 Oct 2024, Ralf Quint via fpc-pascal wrote: > > > Sorry, but there has been so much nonsense in this thread, I just had to > add > > my 2c as well. > > On 10/15/2024 4:07 PM, Rainer Stratmann via fpc-pascal wrote: > >> At the Lazarus Congress in Cologne in October 2024, it ended up being > very > >> interesting. An important question came up. > >> > >> Why are no new users coming to Lazarus/Freepascal? > >> Why do we find it so difficult? > >> How can we get new, younger users to come to us? > >> > >> The same questions came up over a year ago at a Freepascal/Lazarus > meeting > >> in > >> Backnang. > >> > >> I have some answers: > >> > >> - The official Freepascal website doesn't look like the project is very > >> lively. > > An absolute non-factor. Yes, the "Latest News" seems to be dated, but > then I > > would prefer people involved in the project work on compiler related > issues > > rather than on web sites. > > Actually, my employer has already offered twice to sponsor a web-designer > to > overhaul the website. Money was not an issue. The idea was to announce a > contest and to select a winning design. The designer gets then the money. > > I have proposed this to the FPC core team, after some insistance I managed > to get a list of constraints from (if memory serves well?) 1 person. > > I admit I was put off by what I perceived to be a complete lack of > enthusiasm > for this plan in the team, so I put it in the refrigerator for the time > being... > > My intent is to re-start the debate on this after 3.2.4 comes out. > > Just to say that I do think the site (20+ years old?) can use an overhaul, > and that with the above plan, no developer time needs to be spent on it. > > Michael. > ___ > fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org > https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal > ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] What to do to get new users
Consistency also helps... A web site, wiki and documentation in html, all with different appearances does not help the end user. but it is hard and a thankless task as well. That there is information available is a boon. On Sat, Nov 16, 2024 at 10:25 AM DougC via fpc-pascal < fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote: > I'm tempted to ask if you are seriously asking this. But I won't. > > Design is a whole professional specialty. To say it boils down to light > vs. dark background or the amount of whitespace is to insult those who do > this work as a career. I'm sure you aren't trying to do that, so I'm not > sure what you are looking for in this line of inquiry. > > In the off chance that you really do not know the answers, here is some > info for you: > - > White space, also known as negative space, plays a crucial role in > effective web design. Here are the key ways white space contributes to > creating compelling and user-friendly websites: Enhancing Readability and > Content Prioritization > White space significantly improves the readability of content on a > website. By breaking up blocks of text and providing visual breathing room, > it allows users to process information more efficiently.This is > especially important in the age of skim reading, as it helps visitors > quickly comprehend content without feeling overwhelmed.White space also > aids in content prioritization. By surrounding important elements with > ample space, designers can draw attention to key messages, calls-to-action > (CTAs), or other critical content.This strategic use of space creates a > visual hierarchy, guiding users' focus to the most important parts of the > page. Improving User Experience and Navigation > Effective use of white space contributes to a better overall user > experience: > >- *Reduced Cognitive Overload*: By preventing visual clutter, white >space helps users avoid feeling overwhelmed by too much information at once >. >- *Improved Navigation*: White space can create clear separations >between different sections of a website, making it easier for users to >understand the structure and navigate the content. >- *Enhanced Focus*: By isolating important elements, white space helps >direct users' attention to specific areas, improving engagement with key >features or content. > > Creating Visual Appeal and Brand Perception > White space plays a significant role in the aesthetic aspect of web design: > >- *Elegance and Sophistication*: Websites with ample white space often >appear clean, modern, and uncluttered, which can enhance the perception of >professionalism and trustworthiness. >- *Balance and Harmony*: White space helps create a sense of balance >in design, contributing to a more visually pleasing and cohesive layout >. >- *Brand Tone*: The use of white space can communicate a brand's >personality and style, reinforcing its identity in the digital space. > > Facilitating Responsive Design > In the context of responsive web design, white space is crucial for > ensuring a seamless experience across different devices. It allows for > flexibility in layout adjustments, ensuring that content remains readable > and visually appealing on various screen sizes.Conclusion > White space is not merely empty space but a powerful design element that > significantly impacts the effectiveness of a website. When used > strategically, it enhances readability, improves user experience, creates > visual appeal, and supports responsive design. By mastering the use of > white space, designers can create websites that are not only aesthetically > pleasing but also highly functional and user-friendly. > > > > > On Fri, 15 Nov 2024 18:35:22 -0500 *Steve Litt via fpc-pascal > >* > wrote --- > > So what do you all think? Does a good site really boil down to generous > sections of light content on dark background plus generous spacing > between sections and subsections? > > > > ___ > fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org > https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal > ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] What to do to get new users
I am a little on the fence regarding the comment re neither fish or fowl... each developer does their own thing in the language - whether that is writing something for platform X or working on database Y etc. Resources for learning are few and far between if you can find them. If you wanted to learn Pascal for web development, should there be something before re learning Pascal fundamentals? If you ask people in the developer community what they know about "Pascal" what answers would you get? Do they (people) understand how the language has evolved? What is possible in the language now! While I don't do much C programming these days, I still read a bit about what has been added. There maybe announcements in the fpc community, these appear on the forums vs fpc main site? In the news section, the latest entry is regarding the death of Wirth and then one before that was the 2021. This announcement was in 2022... https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,59468.0.html On Sat, Nov 16, 2024 at 1:36 AM Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal < fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote: > On Nov 15, 2024 at 9:23:41 PM, Steve Litt via fpc-pascal < > fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote: > >> First of all, Joanna on #fpc (and other fpc related IRC channels) has >> blown off over 100 potential fpc users, including myself. I'm learning >> Ada now, and liking it a lot. >> > > what authority does she have to such things? > > >> Second, fpc is neither fish nor fowl: It has way too much "stuff" to be >> an easy to learn or use language, but that "stuff" isn't useful to most >> non-Lazarus users. > > > I tend to agree. Feels like it’s somewhere in between C, Java and C++ > without committing to either direction. Not a bad thing I guess but no > inspiring to new users either. > > Regards, > Ryan Joseph > > ___ > fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org > https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal > ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] What to do to get new users
Users will judge a website within seconds. And unfortunately that is the nature of the game today. On Sat, 16 Nov 2024, 9:28 pm Hairy Pixels via fpc-pascal, < fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote: > On Nov 16, 2024 at 3:13:26 PM, Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-pascal < > fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote: > >> If you know nothing about the language, the main page explains to you >> quickly what's the point of the language, and gives you example code, so >> you can immediately see how it looks like. There are relatively large >> and easy to find buttons/links for: > > > Some here are not appreciating just how fickle people are these days. It’s > not 1995 anymore and there are literally dozens of languages you can choose > from so if it’s not clear what language looks like within 30 seconds > browsing a web page people will click away and go to the next one. > > I saw this video recently (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFFcCLzOOyw) > where this person goes over a list of languages he considered before > choosing Odin for his projects (Free Pascal not included sadly). Notice the > web pages and resources he reviewed in his process. The FPC web page > doesn’t even have anything to view in terms of code snippets. People are > going to click away for sure. > > Regards, > Ryan Joseph > > ___ > fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org > https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal > ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] Question about the Wiki Documentation
Hi Everyone, Is there a problem with https://wiki.freepascal.org/ as in the last days I am getting an "Unable to Connect" error message? I have been wanting to create an account so that I could assist with updating documentation etc. Regards, Tim Coates (Silver Pascal Coder on YouTube) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Question about the Wiki Documentation
My IP address is: 121.222.90.99 Tim On Thu, May 15, 2025 at 6:19 PM Michael Van Canneyt via fpc-pascal < fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote: > > > On Thu, 15 May 2025, Tim Coates via fpc-pascal wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > Is there a problem with https://wiki.freepascal.org/ as in the last > days I > > am getting an "Unable to Connect" error message? I have been wanting to > > create an account so that I could assist with updating documentation etc. > > Some measures are in place to prevent scraping by bots, most likely your > ISP's IP address range has been blocked. > > If you provide us with your IP address, then Jonas can de-list it. > > Michael. > ___ > fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org > https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal > ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Question about the Wiki Documentation
I was able to get to Wiki home page. I entered my details into the form to create an account, and on submitting the form, get thrown to a Unable to connect page, I can now no longer access the Wiki home page. :( Tim On Fri, May 16, 2025 at 4:28 AM Jonas Maebe via fpc-pascal < fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> wrote: > On 15/05/2025 11:04, Tim Coates via fpc-pascal wrote: > > My IP address is: > > > > 121.222.90.99 > > Should be okay now. I've also added an extra instruction to the captcha > to avoid triggering any autobans aimed at bots. > > > Jonas > > ___ > fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org > https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal > ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org https://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
