Re: [fpc-pascal] Happy tickets benchmark [OT]
On 18/02/16 11:15, Serguei TARASSOV wrote: > On 18/02/2016 12:00, fpc-pascal-requ...@lists.freepascal.org wrote: >> Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2016 18:55:29 +0100 >> From: Adrian Veith >> To: FPC-Pascal users discussions >> Subject: Re: [fpc-pascal] Happy tickets benchmark >> >> I don't want to insist on this, but: if you measure the runtime of your >> program you result = runtime + error. If you measure a series against >> MIN you measure MIN(result) = runtime + MIN(error) which delivers the >> best value for runtime. > Not at all, any series against MIN delivers the best value for MIN(result) > not for runtime! > Std deviation also matters: > Ex. > Prog 1 > Run 1: 130 = 100 + 30 > Run 2: 160 = 100 + 60 > Run 3: 170 = 100 + 70 > Min = 130, Avg = 153 > std dev = 17 > Prog 2 > Run 1: 120 = 110 + 10 > Run 2: 150 = 110 + 40 > Run 3: 200 = 110 + 90 > Min = 120, Avg = 157 std dev = 33 > MIN shows that Prog 2 is faster that is wrong. > AVG shows that Prog 1 is faster. > Std dev shows that runs of Prog2 have more error so its measurements can't be trusted /more/ than Prog1. The sample also is too small for meaningful statistics ;) > Regards, > Serguei -L. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] [OT] News-Flash: fpc-other is now on Gmane !
Yay http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.compilers.free-pascal.social However has not yet hit the gmane nntp hierarchy (at the time of writing this post); The first post it lists is the Lazarus 1.6 Announcement Date: 2016-02-18 15:28:27 GMT (18 hours and 21 minutes ago) So I could not subscribe to it with my Thunderbird (yet). (this apparently is /not/ something I could filter out of the Gmane FAQ, other than it can take up to 2 weeks since subscribtion - so I guess a post to gmane.discuss would be in order, but let's give them some more time. Say, next week?) But this is very welcome anyway :) -L. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] [PATCH] Addition of OnNotify event on "TFPGObjectList" and "TFPGList" triggered on the insert, delete and extract methods.
Hello, I have a friend here in Brazil that added the `notify` support to the FGL lists, however he sented it to this Github PR [1]. I'm contacting him to explain how to send it to FPC bugtracker, so you can disconsider this PR at Github. :-) Thank you! [1] https://github.com/fabianosalles/freepascal/commit/1d4cc907c806563c19e682676ac0e6676ae0a82b -- Silvio Clécio ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Happy tickets benchmark
On 17/02/2016 12:00, fpc-pascal-requ...@lists.freepascal.org wrote: Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 12:48:31 +0100 (CET) From: Michael Van Canneyt To: FPC-Pascal users discussions Subject: Re: [fpc-pascal] Happy tickets benchmark I have asked Florian to integrate his patch anyway, he has agreed, so I imagine it will result in a new -OoNNN switch. Michael. Good news. Do you have any ideas why this kind of optimization is special? For info, simple loop test like while i < 10 do i := i + 1; shows that the FPC code is 2 times slower than Delphi 7 and Borland C 5.5 and 4 times slower that C#. Regards, Serguei ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] fpc-pascal Digest, Vol 140, Issue 69
On 19/02/2016 12:00, fpc-pascal-requ...@lists.freepascal.org wrote: Message: 2 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2016 09:16:15 + From: Lukasz Sokol To:fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org Subject: Re: [fpc-pascal] Happy tickets benchmark [OT] Std deviation also matters: Std dev shows that runs of Prog2 have more error so its measurements can't be trusted/more/ than Prog1. The sample also is too small for meaningful statistics;) Exactly, the variance too. Many things matter. My example shows only that AVG estimation is better than MIN in the simple technical test with 10 runs because of average the runtime "noise". I suppose it could be approved more strictly. Regards, Serguei ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Happy tickets benchmark
Serguei TARASSOV wrote: For info, simple loop test like while i < 10 do i := i + 1; shows that the FPC code is 2 times slower than Delphi 7 and Borland C 5.5 and 4 times slower that C#. If that's really all there is in your program, then the C# compiler probably replaces that with "i+=10;" (gcc and clang definitely will do that, I don't know about Delph 7/Borland C 5.5). This is another kind of optimisation that is seldom useful in real world programs (normally the loop will also do something useful, in which case you can't do that). FPC indeed does not implement many of these optimisations, because we prefer to spend our time on other things. If you, or anyone else, wants to implement transformations for such idioms, you're welcome and we'll happily apply your patches if they are implemented as generic node tree optimisation passes. Jonas ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] [PATCH] Addition of OnNotify event on "TFPGObjectList" and "TFPGList" triggered on the insert, delete and extract methods.
Am 19.02.2016 12:45 schrieb "silvioprog" : > > Hello, > > I have a friend here in Brazil that added the `notify` support to the FGL lists, however he sented it to this Github PR [1]. I'm against that. That would negatively impact the performance of these lists. Regards, Sven ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] [PATCH] Addition of OnNotify event on "TFPGObjectList" and "TFPGList" triggered on the insert, delete and extract methods.
On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Sven Barth wrote: > Am 19.02.2016 12:45 schrieb "silvioprog" : > > > > Hello, > > > > I have a friend here in Brazil that added the `notify` support to the > FGL lists, however he sented it to this Github PR [1]. > > I'm against that. That would negatively impact the performance of these > lists. > As I said, please discard this PR, because I'm contacting the member (Fabiano) to use mantis instead of Github, and I received other patch from other guy (Gilson) improving this changes. -- Silvio Clécio ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Happy tickets benchmark
> Do you have any ideas why this kind of optimization is special? Didn't Florian said that this kind of optimization has no benefit in real world programs and will only increase compilation time? > For info, simple loop test like > > while i < 10 do > i := i + 1; > > shows that the FPC code is 2 times slower than Delphi 7 and Borland C > 5.5 and 4 times slower that C#. Just checked such a code with gcc 5.3.0, in -O2 the generated assembly is: xorl%eax, %eax ret which literally does nothing. Without optimization the speed is equal. -- View this message in context: http://free-pascal-general.1045716.n5.nabble.com/Happy-tickets-benchmark-tp5724109p5724197.html Sent from the Free Pascal - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] [PATCH] Addition of OnNotify event on "TFPGObjectList" and "TFPGList" triggered on the insert, delete and extract methods.
Am 19.02.2016 14:45 schrieb "silvioprog" : > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Sven Barth wrote: >> >> Am 19.02.2016 12:45 schrieb "silvioprog" : >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > I have a friend here in Brazil that added the `notify` support to the FGL lists, however he sented it to this Github PR [1]. >> >> I'm against that. That would negatively impact the performance of these lists. > > As I said, please discard this PR, because I'm contacting the member (Fabiano) to use mantis instead of Github, and I received other patch from other guy (Gilson) improving this changes. It doesn't matter whether it is requested over here or on Mantis. I'm against adding notifications to the generic lists, because that will degrade their performance. Regards, Sven ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] [PATCH] Addition of OnNotify event on "TFPGObjectList" and "TFPGList" triggered on the insert, delete and extract methods.
On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Sven Barth wrote: [...] > It doesn't matter whether it is requested over here or on Mantis. I'm > against adding notifications to the generic lists, because that will > degrade their performance. > Can you send little bit sample showing this degradation? I can inform him to not send the patch because this problem. (I think that him isn't registered here in the list yet) -- Silvio Clécio ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] [PATCH] Addition of OnNotify event on "TFPGObjectList" and "TFPGList" triggered on the insert, delete and extract methods.
Am 19.02.2016 20:47 schrieb "silvioprog" : > > On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Sven Barth wrote: > [...] > >> It doesn't matter whether it is requested over here or on Mantis. I'm against adding notifications to the generic lists, because that will degrade their performance. > > Can you send little bit sample showing this degradation? I can inform him to not send the patch because this problem. (I think that him isn't registered here in the list yet) There's no need for a sample. This degradation is the whole reason why the non-generic classes TFPObjectList and TFPList exist compared to TObjectList and TList which do have notifications. Regards, Sven ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] [PATCH] Addition of OnNotify event on "TFPGObjectList" and "TFPGList" triggered on the insert, delete and extract methods.
On 2016-02-19 23:04, Sven Barth wrote: > There's no need for a sample. This degradation is the whole reason why the > non-generic classes TFPObjectList and TFPList exist compared to TObjectList > and TList which do have notifications. I don't use Generics so it doesn't bother me either way. But purely from a software design point of view, it should be quite easy to create a list where notification can be enabled or disabled at runtime - maybe as a parameter to the constructor or via a property. On disabling notification there should be near zero degradation - at least not something noticeable. Just my 2¢ worth. Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] How to pass an array of bytes directly in a TBytes param?
Hello,
Consider the following procedure:
procedure test(b: TBytes);
begin
end;
The common way to pass an array of bytes in this procedure is declaring and
initializing a TBytes variable. But in Delphi (XE) I just do:
test([65, 66, 67]);
However, when I try it on FPC (trunk), I get:
"Error: Incompatible type for arg no. 1: Got "{Array Of Const/Constant
Open} Array of ShortInt", expected "TBytes"".
Is this feature supported in FPC? If so, how to use that?!
Thank you!
--
Silvio Clécio
___
fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org
http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] How to pass an array of bytes directly in a TBytes param?
procedure test(const b: array of byte) ??
On Friday, February 19, 2016, silvioprog wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Consider the following procedure:
>
> procedure test(b: TBytes);
> begin
> end;
>
> The common way to pass an array of bytes in this procedure is declaring
> and initializing a TBytes variable. But in Delphi (XE) I just do:
>
> test([65, 66, 67]);
>
> However, when I try it on FPC (trunk), I get:
>
> "Error: Incompatible type for arg no. 1: Got "{Array Of Const/Constant
> Open} Array of ShortInt", expected "TBytes"".
>
> Is this feature supported in FPC? If so, how to use that?!
>
> Thank you!
>
> --
> Silvio Clécio
>
___
fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org
http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] How to pass an array of bytes directly in a TBytes param?
On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Dmitry Boyarintsev < skalogryz.li...@gmail.com> wrote: > procedure test(const b: array of byte) ?? I know it using an array of bytes, but does it compiles if the parameter is declared as TBytes? I don't know if FPC sopports it, so I'm askig just to check if it is possible (enabling some switch). -- Silvio Clécio ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] [PATCH] Addition of OnNotify event on "TFPGObjectList" and "TFPGList" triggered on the insert, delete and extract methods.
>> Can you send little bit sample showing this degradation? I can inform him >> to not send the patch because this problem. (I think that him isn't >> registered here in the list yet) > > There's no need for a sample. This degradation is the whole reason why the > non-generic classes TFPObjectList and TFPList exist compared to TObjectList > and TList which do have notifications. Hm, two points. 1. I'm using FGL containers a lot (because I like type-safety given by generics), and I agree that adding a notification mechanism there can slow them down. Mostly at allocation (because a deallocation is already burdened down by having to do Deref() on every item, so it would probably not suffer *so much* with unassigned OnNotify). 2. But this should not stop us from making a "generic container with notification" classes. Maybe as new classes, maybe as a boolean toggle to existing classes (as Graeme nicely suggests). Right now we only have "with notifications, and not type-safe" containers (TObjectList/TList) and "without notifications, and type-safe using generics" containers (TFPObjectList/TFPList). But these two features (1. notifications and 2. type-safety thanks to generics) should be independent. It makes sense to create a "with notifications, and type-safe using generics" option. So I would not reject the idea so quickly. But it indeed should be implemented carefully, without slowing down the existing TFPObjectList/TFPList. Regards, Michalis ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] Primitive Record Wrappers
2016-02-18 15:43 GMT+01:00 Mazola Winstrol : > Em 18/02/2016 10:12, "Marco van de Voort" escreveu: >> >> In our previous episode, Mazola Winstrol said: >> >end; >> > >> > >> > Suppose that this class represent data of the Person table in a sql >> > database. Suppose that there is records where the column "BirthDate" is >> > null. How do i represent a null "BirthDate" in my object? >> >> Keep using variants instead of typed data. >> > > I think this is not a good alternative. As the variant are untyped, should > the consumers of the person class assume that BirthDate are filled as a > formated date string '01/01/1980' or as a native tdatetime? > > I think it would be better using record wrappers to primitive types. See > http://blogs.embarcadero.com/abauer/2008/09/18/38869. > > What do you think about that? Personally, I like the Nullable idea from C#, which is basically a generic record adding a "HasValue: boolean" to "Value: T". The type-safety is nice, and it's sometimes very useful (when you cannot "cheat" and say that "empty string" or "zero value" always means "uninitialized"). Looking at your link http://blogs.embarcadero.com/abauer/2008/09/18/38869 , this is exactly trying to implement Nullable in Object Pascal. The major problem there is that it's difficult to force it to be always initialized with zeroes. Currently, a non-global variable of unmanaged type can always be filled with memory garbage, as explained in other thread. The trick in http://blogs.embarcadero.com/abauer/2008/09/18/38869 to use interfaces feels ugly, it's an over-use of the "interface" specifics in Object Pascal. I remember a thread on fpc-devel "Pascal Smart Pointers Idea + ARC implementation" where the original author (Maciej Izak) was already working to overcome this: https://www.mail-archive.com/fpc-devel@lists.freepascal.org/msg33172.html . His reasons was similar (force the contents to be initialized with zero) and his solution felt cleaner -- introduce "class operator Initialize" where you can initialize your record. Any chance that this would be added/merged to FPC one day?:) Regards, Michalis ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] [PATCH] Addition of OnNotify event on "TFPGObjectList" and "TFPGList" triggered on the insert, delete and extract methods.
Notifications events already works in Generics.Collections. ;P ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
