[fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread Krzysztof
Hi,

I like when Free Pascal trying to implement best practices from other
languages. That was with increment variable using assign operator: i += 1.
Anyway, few days ago I analyzed C++ code and I liked one syntax:

if ( ( i = GetSomeValue ) >= 10 ) {
  // variable "i" already has value returned by GetSomeValue
}

I wonder if FPC has equivalent for this.

Regards
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread Michael Fuchs

Am 08.01.2013 09:44, schrieb Krzysztof:

I like when Free Pascal trying to implement best practices from other
languages. That was with increment variable using assign operator: i += 1.
Anyway, few days ago I analyzed C++ code and I liked one syntax:

if ( ( i = GetSomeValue ) >= 10 ) {
   // variable "i" already has value returned by GetSomeValue
}

I wonder if FPC has equivalent for this.


I hope not.

Why do you use Pascal if you want this ugly C-crap-style?
Even the i += 1 is a sin.

*shudder*
Michael

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread Mattias Gaertner
On Tue, 8 Jan 2013 09:44:13 +0100
Krzysztof  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I like when Free Pascal trying to implement best practices from other
> languages. That was with increment variable using assign operator: i += 1.
> Anyway, few days ago I analyzed C++ code and I liked one syntax:
> 
> if ( ( i = GetSomeValue ) >= 10 ) {
>   // variable "i" already has value returned by GetSomeValue
> }
> 
> I wonder if FPC has equivalent for this.

Even C has some equivalent:

i = GetSomeValue;
if ( i >= 10 ) {
  // no comment needed, the value of i is obvious
}

Mattias
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread ik
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Krzysztof  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I like when Free Pascal trying to implement best practices from other
> languages. That was with increment variable using assign operator: i += 1.
> Anyway, few days ago I analyzed C++ code and I liked one syntax:
>
> if ( ( i = GetSomeValue ) >= 10 ) {
>   // variable "i" already has value returned by GetSomeValue
> }
>
> I wonder if FPC has equivalent for this.

No, and thanks Wirth for that, and for FPC/Delphi devs for not adding it up.
It's one of the worst possible features ever existed in programming
languages, and the cause for many bugs

>
> Regards
>
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread Krzysztof
I don't like a lot of C++ syntax but this one is interesting. You really
don't like it? :)
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread Marco van de Voort
In our previous episode, Krzysztof said:
> I don't like a lot of C++ syntax but this one is interesting. You really
> don't like it? :)

It's the worst thing ever. 95% of the hard to find errors in C in my code
are due to = vs == mixup.
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[fpc-pascal] Linker fails cross compiling from Linux to Mac.

2013-01-08 Thread Bruce Tulloch
I had a working Debian Squeeze to Mac OSX Snow Leopard cross-
compilation system working. It's documented here:

http://wiki.freepascal.org/Cross_compiling_OSX_on_Linux

Unfortunately the method described on that page is now broken.

The problem linking for OSX on a Linux no longer works for me.

It produces errors like these:

i386-darwin-ld: MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/lib/libiconv.dylib load command 5
unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld: MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/lib/libobjc.dylib load command 7
unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld: MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/lib/libc.dylib load command 5
unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld:
MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Carbon load
command 4 unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld:
MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework/Cocoa load
command 4 unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld:
MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/OpenGL load
command 5 unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld:
MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Foundation
load command 6 unknown cmd field

Here's what I'm using:

1) FPC 2.6.2 rc1 (and I've tried 2.6.0 as well).
2) Apple's cctools 809 release suitably patched.
3) A Debian Wheezy Linux host.

The cctools-809 source comes from:

http://www.opensource.apple.com/tarballs/cctools/cctools-809.tar.gz

The patch applied to make it buildable for Linux is:

https://github.com/mingwandroid/xchain/blob/master/patches/cctools-809-nondarwin.patch

plus a few tweaks of my own to fix some build bugs.

It's built against MacOSX10.6.sdk (I've tried MacOSX10.5.sdk too) for
32 bit (-m32) builds (64 bit is not supported). FPC, FCL, LCL et al
are all built against the same SDK. Compilation works just but linking
fails as shown above.

I've tried various combination of compilation switches but nothing
seems to allow the link to succeed.

Does anyone have a clue why this might be failing? I seems like I'm on
the brink of success if only I can work out why these errors are
occurring.

The most obvious thought is that not all objects were built against
the same revision of the SDK but I can confirm they are. The missing
command codes are (from MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/include/mach-o/loader.h):

#define LC_THREAD  0x4 /* thread */
#define LC_UNIXTHREAD  0x5 /* unix thread (includes a stack) */
#define LC_LOADFVMLIB  0x6 /* load a specified fixed VM shared library */
#define LC_IDFVMLIB0x7 /* fixed VM shared library identification */

I will give up on this if no one has any ideas and the wiki needs to
be updated to report that cross-compilation from Linux to Mac is no
longer possible but I'm willing to give it some more work based on
pointers anyone can suggest.

Failing that I will revert to a native Mac system but I'd really like
to have cross-compilation working if possible.

Any suggestions?

Bruce
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Linker fails cross compiling from Linux to Mac.

2013-01-08 Thread Jonas Maebe


On 08 Jan 2013, at 10:49, Bruce Tulloch wrote:


I had a working Debian Squeeze to Mac OSX Snow Leopard cross-
compilation system working. It's documented here:

http://wiki.freepascal.org/Cross_compiling_OSX_on_Linux

Unfortunately the method described on that page is now broken.

The problem linking for OSX on a Linux no longer works for me.


What had changed when it stopped working?


It produces errors like these:

i386-darwin-ld: MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/lib/libiconv.dylib load command 5
unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld: MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/lib/libobjc.dylib load command 7
unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld: MacOSX10.6.sdk/usr/lib/libc.dylib load command 5
unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld:
MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Carbon load
command 4 unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld:
MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework/Cocoa load
command 4 unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld:
MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/OpenGL load
command 5 unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld:
MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/ 
Foundation

load command 6 unknown cmd field


This suggests that you are using a linker that is too old. Are you  
certain that the used i386-darwin-ld is the one you built from  
cctools-809? (compile with -Cn and look at the generated ppas.sh)



The most obvious thought is that not all objects were built against
the same revision of the SDK but I can confirm they are.


That has no influence anyway. Objects are not really built against an  
SDK, only libraries and applications are. The SDK only affects the  
linking in case of Pascal (in case of C/C++, it also affects the  
compilation because of the used headers).



Jonas

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Linker fails cross compiling from Linux to Mac.

2013-01-08 Thread Bruce Tulloch
On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Maebe  wrote:
>
> On 08 Jan 2013, at 10:49, Bruce Tulloch wrote:
>
> I had a working Debian Squeeze to Mac OSX Snow Leopard cross-
>
> What had changed when it stopped working?

I had to upgrade from Debian Sneeze to Wheezy (for other reasons) and
the previously built odcctools linker (derived from the older
cctools-758) required libraries no longer available in Wheezy which
required that I rebuild it from source but the long dead odcctools
source was no longer available so I rebuilt from Apple's upstream
cctools-809 with the new patches.

> This suggests that you are using a linker that is too old.

Should be okay, cctool-809 is 10.6 aware (the
get_macosx_deployment_target() function in the linker reports 10.6
when run).

> Are you certain that the used  i386-darwin-ld is the one you built from 
> cctools-809?

Yep, I already checked this.

ppas.sh reports /usr/local/opt/cctools/bin/i386-darwin-ld which is correct.

The linker is built with this script (working in a repository I created):

#!/bin/bash

# Compilation parameters, adjust as required...

export TARGET=i386-darwin # OSX target (i386-darwin or x86_64-darwin)
export SYSROOT=/usr/local/opt/osx/MacOSX10.6.sdk # OSX SDK root
export CCTOOLS="809" # OSX cctools version (must be a patched for linux)
export PREFIX=/usr/local/opt/cctools # build host installation directory

cd cctools # working repository

# Checkout revision and patch

hg update -C cctools-$CCTOOLS
hg -R $(hg root)/.hg/patches update -C cctools-$CCTOOLS
hg qpush --all

# configure and build

autoconf && chmod +x configure
CFLAGS="-m32 -D__DARWIN_UNIX03" LDFLAGS="-m32" ./configure \
--prefix=$PREFIX \
--target=$TARGET \
--with-sysroot=$SYSROOT \
&& make && make install

# cleanup

hg update -C
hg qpop --all
hg clean

>> The most obvious thought is that not all objects were built against
>> the same revision of the SDK but I can confirm they are.
>
> That has no influence anyway. Objects are not really built against an SDK, 
> only
> libraries and applications are. The SDK only affects the linking in case of 
> Pascal
> (in case of C/C++, it also affects the compilation because of the used 
> headers).

Thanks, understood. It's linking the application that presents the problem.

I've noticed that all errors except these two:

i386-darwin-ld:
MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Carbon load
command 4 unknown cmd field
i386-darwin-ld:
MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/OpenGL load
command 5 unknown cmd field

disappear IF I enable debug symbols when compiling. Don't know if this
is a clue and it does not appear to matter which type of debug info I
enable.

Bruce.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread Jorge Aldo G. de F. Junior
C programmers are (usually, but there are a lot of exceptions) bad
programmers who confuse the power of a language with the capability of
decrease the ammount of typing needed to reach a certain goal.

They despise pascal because pascal is somewhat verbose (ignoring that
this is what makes pascal readable) because they think that the best
language is the one wich allows to write a whole program in a single
line of code.

Thats because they dont usually think before writing, they think while
they are implementing, and then the only thing between current momment
and the momment when their program is "ready" is the ammount of
typing.

Pascal programmers tend to plan ahead, they think before they type. We
type a lot because of Pascal verboseness, but usually our code is
right from the start. We end up typing less because we fix less bugs.

Pascal generally improves programmer productivity. Lets not break this
by adding crazy ideas from C/C++ family of languages...

2013/1/8 Marco van de Voort :
> In our previous episode, Krzysztof said:
>> I don't like a lot of C++ syntax but this one is interesting. You really
>> don't like it? :)
>
> It's the worst thing ever. 95% of the hard to find errors in C in my code
> are due to = vs == mixup.
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[fpc-pascal] Re: Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread leledumbo
> I don't like a lot of C++ syntax but this one is interesting. You really
don't like it? :)

HELL NO! Most C/C++ programmers don't have any idea who will READ and
CONTINUE their work, and I'm one of those unlucky person who has to deal
with this stupid, error prone, unreadable, worthless "feature"!



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[fpc-pascal] Re: FPC's broken cross-compiler directory structure?

2013-01-08 Thread leledumbo
I never use [cross]zipinstall so I have no idea about it, make [cross]install
produce the correct directory structure. Perhaps you can [cross]install
first then manually zip the result.



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[fpc-pascal] Use of abstract classes

2013-01-08 Thread Michael Fuchs

Hello,

I have the following test program:

program AbstractTest;
{$MODE ObjFpc}{$H+}

uses Classes;

type
  TAbstractClass = class abstract(TObject)
  end;

var
  MyAbstractClass: TAbstractClass = nil;

begin
  MyAbstractClass := TAbstractClass.Create;
  MyAbstractClass.Free;
end.


I thougt this would cause a compiler error, while creating a abstract 
class. Surprisingly it compiles, even without a warning.


Do I have to use any compiler switches or is there no sense in using the 
abstract keyword for a class?



Michael
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread Mark Morgan Lloyd

Marco van de Voort wrote:

In our previous episode, Krzysztof said:

I don't like a lot of C++ syntax but this one is interesting. You really
don't like it? :)


It's the worst thing ever. 95% of the hard to find errors in C in my code
are due to = vs == mixup.


Seconded. In fact, if assignment didn't propagate a value like that I'm 
not sure a distinction would have to be made between (C-style) = and == 
or (Pascal-style) := and =


--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Use of abstract classes

2013-01-08 Thread Howard Page-Clark

On 08/1/13 11:48, Michael Fuchs wrote:

program AbstractTest;
{$MODE ObjFpc}{$H+}

uses Classes;

type
   TAbstractClass = class abstract(TObject)
   end;

var
   MyAbstractClass: TAbstractClass = nil;

begin
   MyAbstractClass := TAbstractClass.Create;
   MyAbstractClass.Free;
end.


'Casting' a class as abstract is curious syntax. What led you to think 
of that? But obviously the compiler knows it.

As soon as you add an abstract method the compiler will give a warning.

Howard


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Re: [fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread Henry Vermaak
On Tue, Jan 08, 2013 at 09:58:19AM +0100, Krzysztof wrote:
> I don't like a lot of C++ syntax but this one is interesting. You really
> don't like it? :)

Most C programmers I've dealt with (including myself) consider this bad
practise.

Henry
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Use of abstract classes

2013-01-08 Thread Michael Fuchs

Am 08.01.2013 13:06, schrieb Howard Page-Clark:

   TAbstractClass = class abstract(TObject)

>

'Casting' a class as abstract is curious syntax. What led you to think
of that? But obviously the compiler knows it.


This is no casting, it is the new abstract class syntax coming from delphi.


As soon as you add an abstract method the compiler will give a warning.


Yes, this behaviour I know. But I would prefer an error for abstract 
classes. I was hoping, that the class abstract keyword led to this error.


Michael
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread Henry Vermaak
On Tue, Jan 08, 2013 at 08:19:15AM -0300, Jorge Aldo G. de F. Junior wrote:
> C programmers are (usually, but there are a lot of exceptions) bad
> programmers who confuse the power of a language with the capability of
> decrease the ammount of typing needed to reach a certain goal.
> 
> They despise pascal because pascal is somewhat verbose (ignoring that
> this is what makes pascal readable) because they think that the best
> language is the one wich allows to write a whole program in a single
> line of code.
> 
> Thats because they dont usually think before writing, they think while
> they are implementing, and then the only thing between current momment
> and the momment when their program is "ready" is the ammount of
> typing.
> 
> Pascal programmers tend to plan ahead, they think before they type. We
> type a lot because of Pascal verboseness, but usually our code is
> right from the start. We end up typing less because we fix less bugs.
> 
> Pascal generally improves programmer productivity. Lets not break this
> by adding crazy ideas from C/C++ family of languages...

"Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it
and remove all doubt"
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Use of abstract classes

2013-01-08 Thread Paul Ishenin

08.01.13, 19:48, Michael Fuchs пишет:


I thougt this would cause a compiler error, while creating a abstract
class. Surprisingly it compiles, even without a warning.

Do I have to use any compiler switches or is there no sense in using the
abstract keyword for a class?


Abstract class feature is implemented the same way as it is done in 
delphi. In delphi it does not raise any error, so it works in FPC. The 
only limitation is that you can't both set sealed and abstract for the 
same class.


Maybe later delphi will come with some extra checks for abstract classes 
and then FPC will follow.


Best regards,
Paul Ishenin
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Use of abstract classes

2013-01-08 Thread Michael Fuchs

Am 08.01.2013 13:29, schrieb Paul Ishenin:

Abstract class feature is implemented the same way as it is done in
delphi. In delphi it does not raise any error, so it works in FPC. The
only limitation is that you can't both set sealed and abstract for the
same class.

Maybe later delphi will come with some extra checks for abstract classes
and then FPC will follow.


Hm, and how about a pioneer solution?

For example a compiler error in {$MODE ObjFpc} and the actual behaviour 
in {$MODE Delphi}. That would not break compatibility, but gets a nice 
feature for FPC.


Michael
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Use of abstract classes

2013-01-08 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys
On 01/08/13 12:33, Michael Fuchs wrote:
> 
> For example a compiler error in {$MODE ObjFpc} and the actual behaviour 
> in {$MODE Delphi}. That would not break compatibility, but gets a nice 
> feature for FPC.


+1
The current behaviour (even if Delphi compatible) seems just wrong -
totally defeats the point of "abstract" in object design!


Regards,
  - Graeme -

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Linker fails cross compiling from Linux to Mac.

2013-01-08 Thread Bruce Tulloch
Any other thoughts as to what I should do or information I can provide to
help diagnose this further? It would be a shame to loose the ability to
cross compile to Mac. Bruce.
On Jan 8, 2013 10:07 PM, "Bruce Tulloch"  wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Jonas Maebe 
> wrote:
> >
> > On 08 Jan 2013, at 10:49, Bruce Tulloch wrote:
> >
> > I had a working Debian Squeeze to Mac OSX Snow Leopard cross-
> >
> > What had changed when it stopped working?
>
> I had to upgrade from Debian Sneeze to Wheezy (for other reasons) and
> the previously built odcctools linker (derived from the older
> cctools-758) required libraries no longer available in Wheezy which
> required that I rebuild it from source but the long dead odcctools
> source was no longer available so I rebuilt from Apple's upstream
> cctools-809 with the new patches.
>
> > This suggests that you are using a linker that is too old.
>
> Should be okay, cctool-809 is 10.6 aware (the
> get_macosx_deployment_target() function in the linker reports 10.6
> when run).
>
> > Are you certain that the used  i386-darwin-ld is the one you built from
> cctools-809?
>
> Yep, I already checked this.
>
> ppas.sh reports /usr/local/opt/cctools/bin/i386-darwin-ld which is correct.
>
> The linker is built with this script (working in a repository I created):
>
> #!/bin/bash
>
> # Compilation parameters, adjust as required...
>
> export TARGET=i386-darwin # OSX target (i386-darwin or x86_64-darwin)
> export SYSROOT=/usr/local/opt/osx/MacOSX10.6.sdk # OSX SDK root
> export CCTOOLS="809" # OSX cctools version (must be a patched for linux)
> export PREFIX=/usr/local/opt/cctools # build host installation directory
>
> cd cctools # working repository
>
> # Checkout revision and patch
>
> hg update -C cctools-$CCTOOLS
> hg -R $(hg root)/.hg/patches update -C cctools-$CCTOOLS
> hg qpush --all
>
> # configure and build
>
> autoconf && chmod +x configure
> CFLAGS="-m32 -D__DARWIN_UNIX03" LDFLAGS="-m32" ./configure \
> --prefix=$PREFIX \
> --target=$TARGET \
> --with-sysroot=$SYSROOT \
> && make && make install
>
> # cleanup
>
> hg update -C
> hg qpop --all
> hg clean
>
> >> The most obvious thought is that not all objects were built against
> >> the same revision of the SDK but I can confirm they are.
> >
> > That has no influence anyway. Objects are not really built against an
> SDK, only
> > libraries and applications are. The SDK only affects the linking in case
> of Pascal
> > (in case of C/C++, it also affects the compilation because of the used
> headers).
>
> Thanks, understood. It's linking the application that presents the problem.
>
> I've noticed that all errors except these two:
>
> i386-darwin-ld:
> MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Carbon load
> command 4 unknown cmd field
> i386-darwin-ld:
> MacOSX10.6.sdk/System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/OpenGL load
> command 5 unknown cmd field
>
> disappear IF I enable debug symbols when compiling. Don't know if this
> is a clue and it does not appear to matter which type of debug info I
> enable.
>
> Bruce.
>
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Use of abstract classes

2013-01-08 Thread Michael Fuchs

Am 08.01.2013 17:33, schrieb Graeme Geldenhuys:

+1
The current behaviour (even if Delphi compatible) seems just wrong -
totally defeats the point of "abstract" in object design!


What is the best way for a discussion on this? Should I create a feature 
request in bugtracker?


Michael

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Use of abstract classes

2013-01-08 Thread Paul Ishenin

09.01.13, 6:26, Michael Fuchs пишет:


What is the best way for a discussion on this? Should I create a feature
request in bugtracker?


First create a desired implementation with a patch.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Changing variable in conditional

2013-01-08 Thread Jorge Aldo G. de F. Junior
Your phrase almost made me care about...

Do you wanna make me care ? Show some points, make a constructive
critic about what i said etc.

For all that matter, your answer is just a plain old argumentum ad
hominem, a fallacy category, and being a fallacy, tells me you cant
really make a good answer, so i infer you are the idiot here.

2013/1/8 Henry Vermaak :
> On Tue, Jan 08, 2013 at 08:19:15AM -0300, Jorge Aldo G. de F. Junior wrote:
>> C programmers are (usually, but there are a lot of exceptions) bad
>> programmers who confuse the power of a language with the capability of
>> decrease the ammount of typing needed to reach a certain goal.
>>
>> They despise pascal because pascal is somewhat verbose (ignoring that
>> this is what makes pascal readable) because they think that the best
>> language is the one wich allows to write a whole program in a single
>> line of code.
>>
>> Thats because they dont usually think before writing, they think while
>> they are implementing, and then the only thing between current momment
>> and the momment when their program is "ready" is the ammount of
>> typing.
>>
>> Pascal programmers tend to plan ahead, they think before they type. We
>> type a lot because of Pascal verboseness, but usually our code is
>> right from the start. We end up typing less because we fix less bugs.
>>
>> Pascal generally improves programmer productivity. Lets not break this
>> by adding crazy ideas from C/C++ family of languages...
>
> "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it
> and remove all doubt"
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Re: FPC's broken cross-compiler directory structure?

2013-01-08 Thread Bruce Tulloch
Thanks, but that's what the make file appears to do already
(crossinstall into a local target which is then zipped).

If this problem is not affecting anyone else I'll not worry about it
it as I've coded a simple script to work around the problem when
installing on my system here.

Bruce.

On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 10:31 PM, leledumbo  wrote:
> I never use [cross]zipinstall so I have no idea about it, make [cross]install
> produce the correct directory structure. Perhaps you can [cross]install
> first then manually zip the result.
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://free-pascal-general.1045716.n5.nabble.com/FPC-s-broken-cross-compiler-directory-structure-tp5712491p5712504.html
> Sent from the Free Pascal - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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