Re: [Evolution] [evolution-users] What do I do now?
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 14:43 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: > On 25/10/22 10:18, Ralf via groups.io wrote: > > Temporarily we can continue to think about how to proceed at > > > > https://groups.io/g/evolution-users > > https://groups.io/g/gimp-users > > > > Just to clarify - when I set up the replacement lists at groups.io (and, > I have set up another one, for a different gnome product), I did not set > them up to be as temporary facilities. > > The lists were set up to replace the applicable gnome.org mailing lists > that are being shut down. Hi, thank you again for your efforts. The Evolution mailing list at Gnome has around 850 subscribers, hence groups.io can't be a non-transient solution for this list. While I'm not against donations, I consider donations as a last resort, that should be avoided. The day we spend more money for donations, to keep FLOSS alive, than we spend for one time purchases to get proprietary software and free as in beer lifetime support, FLOSS is dead anyway. Somebody mentioned a proprietary replacement for Gimp, while I mentioned another FLOSS project for Gimp. I can't speak for this other person, but only for myself. It was not meant as trolling. Actually I'm using both, the proprietary software mentioned by this other person and the FLOSS software mentioned by me. I migrated a long time ago from Gimp to those other solutions and a few more for other reasons and I never bothered anybody by recommending to do the same. Mentioning an alternative was done due to the step made by the GNOME foundation, to drop the mailing lists without providing a reasonable replacement. I'm not completely pissed off by a forum, I'm completely pissed of by a forum with gamification. The other FLOSS software I mentioned (Krita) provides a mailing list. Btw. for those who are not only in pixel graphic, for photography there are anyway IMO way better solutions available, FLOSS as well as proprietary, to see just a few, take a look at https://lensfun.github.io/usage/ . IMO a plugin for Gimp still doesn't make it a good app for photography. YMMV! I'm not aware of software to my taste, that can replace Evolution for me and I used almost all known MUA software. While I'm not a MC user, for this purpose I'm in favour of command line with bashisms, I doubt that there's a replacement available for MC. As GUI editor I replaced Gedit for other reasons a long time ago by Pluma and Pluma by Xed and I even used Kate and similar. However, I never joined a mailing list for any of these editors. In a nutshell: IMO a free as in beer mailing list is useful for some apps and I expect it should be able to hold way more than 100 subscribers and not be limited to 1 GiB. Apart from replacing a dropped mailing list by a new mailing list another workaround/solution could be replacing an app by another app. For me and for some other users replacing a mailing list by Discourse is no option. Regards, Ralf ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] [evolution-users] What do I do now?
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 09:42 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via evolution-list wrote: > I'm not aware of software to my taste, that can replace Evolution for > me and I used almost all known MUA software. Hi, I'm not sure I understand your message properly, I guess I do not, but to express my own opinion: if the above means "if I cannot use a mailing list for app A, I'm going to switch to another app B, which does similar things as app A, even I'm particularly satisfied with the app A otherwise", then I say the reason to use another app just because the current app will have shut down one of three ways to ask for help, is really, really radical thing to do and doesn't make any sense to me. Again, just my opinion, likely due to my misunderstanding of you. Side note: discussing alternatives for random apps here is an off topic for this list by all means. Please, do not diverge from the intent of the mailing list. Thanks and bye, Milan ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] [evolution-users] What do I do now?
On 25/10/22 15:42, Ralf via groups.io wrote: On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 14:43 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: On 25/10/22 10:18, Ralf via groups.io wrote: Temporarily we can continue to think about how to proceed at https://groups.io/g/evolution-users https://groups.io/g/gimp-users Just to clarify - when I set up the replacement lists at groups.io (and, I have set up another one, for a different gnome product), I did not set them up to be as temporary facilities. The lists were set up to replace the applicable gnome.org mailing lists that are being shut down. Hi, thank you again for your efforts. The Evolution mailing list at Gnome has around 850 subscribers, hence groups.io can't be a non-transient solution for this list. I think that we should wait and see what happens. So far, the membership numbers for the gimp and evolution users mailing lists that I set up at groups.io, are 14 and 28, respectively. When a mailing list is shut down, some go one way, and, others choose to go other ways. When the about 57,000 rootsweb,com mailing lists were shut down by ancestry.com, after taking over rootsweb.com, many of the list administrators created replacement lists at groups.io . In the migration, some people went to the replacement groups.io lists that were set up to replace the rootsweb,com mailing lists, some went to google groups, some went other ways, and, others just gave up. Whilst some lists had hundreds of members at rootsweb.com, the replacements lists at groups.io, for some of those lists, ended up having less than a hundred subscribers. Some lists at rootsweb.com, were merged into consolidated lists at groups.io, so that, for example, one list at groups.io, that now has slightly less than 100 subscribers, was a merge of three or four lists, that had about 300-400 subscribers. In any migration, whether it be mailing list subscribers, or wildebeest or kudzu or bison, losses will occur. Some of the people on some of the gnome lists, are being quite vocal about all kinds of possibilities, but, seem to be doing nothing about any of the possibilities. With the current membership numbers of the lists that I set up at groups.io, to replace the lists hosted at gnome.org, I expect that the number of subscribers on each, will not approach 100, as I believe that many people are simply giving up. But, I will wait and see what happens. .. Bret Busby Armadale West Australia (UTC+0800) .. ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] [evolution-users] What do I do now?
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 09:55 +0200, Milan Crha via evolution-list wrote: > On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 09:42 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > I'm not aware of software to my taste, that can replace Evolution for > > me and I used almost all known MUA software. > > I'm not sure I understand your message properly, I guess I do not, but > to express my own opinion: if the above means "if I cannot use a > mailing list for app A, I'm going to switch to another app B, which > does similar things as app A, even I'm particularly satisfied with the > app A otherwise", then I say the reason to use another app just because > the current app will have shut down one of three ways to ask for help, > is really, really radical thing to do and doesn't make any sense to me. > Again, just my opinion, likely due to my misunderstanding of you. > > Side note: discussing alternatives for random apps here is an off topic > for this list by all means. Please, do not diverge from the intent of > the mailing list. Hi Milan, I will continue using Evolution, since no replacement for Evolution is to my taste. However, if I can replace apps associated with the Gnome foundation I will do this. The latest step in the wrong direction, migration to a gamification forum with an announcement four light years away and another one 11 days before the final curtain falls, isn't the only reason, but it is the straw to break the camel's back. You might have noticed that some developers started a migration from Gtk to Qt already a long time ago. Probably all of them had a reason to chose Gtk in the first place and they most likely dislike to migrate to Qt, but it is what it is. Btw. for good reasons I'm not using a desktop environment. I'm using a window manager and portions from different desktop environments. I dislike to replace one portion by another portion, but it's less radical, than being bound to a desktop environment (the same applies to operating systems or apps). I'm quite flexible, not radical. Sometimes I've got the impression that staying with operating systems, environments, apps tends to be similar to fundamentalism. This approach seems to me way more radical than my approach is. Regards, Ralf ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] [evolution-users] What do I do now?
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 16:02 +0800, Bret Busby wrote: > losses will occur. > > Some of the people on some of the gnome lists, are being quite vocal > about all kinds of possibilities, but, seem to be doing nothing about > any of the possibilities. Hi, an important part of the app communities are the app developers, the admins and moderators of the current lists at gnome.org, hence a first step to get closer to a solution are statements from those people. We all or at least most of us were surprised and disorganized, the next step is to become more organised. Regards, Ralf ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Trouble with gnome evolution
Hello all. Finally I tried to use FP since I could read on the site of this software that it "... enables us to run applications in a predictable environment with their most suitable library stack, without compromising the base OS's stability and flexibility" I installed flatpak (I use Debian 11) as: # apt install flatpak # apt install gnome-software-plugin-flatpak # flatpak remote-add --if-not-exists flathub https://flathub.org/repo/flathub.flatpakrepo I then installed org.gnome.Evolution : # flatpak install flathub org.gnome.Evolution ... 7. [✓] org.gnome.Evolution stable i flathub 24,2 MB / 23,1 MB I then launch Evolution 3.46.0 instance as my user and tried to create the link to Google Contacts but it failed : # flatpak run org.gnome.Evolution Impossible de se connecter au carnet d’adresses « Google : Contacts » : Unable to connect to Google Contacts adress book Error performing TLS handshake: Un paquet TLS incorrect a été reçu. : an incorrect TLS packet was received I checked my iptables : nothing was dropped in/out /var/log/syslog shows : 2022-10-25 09:30:36 systemd[2210]: Started Application launched by gnome-shell. 2022-10-25 09:30:37 dbus-daemon[2234]: [session uid=1000 pid=2234] Activating via systemd: service name='org.freedesktop.Flatpak' unit='flatpak-session-helper.service' requested by ':1.117' (uid=1000 pid=7164 comm="/usr/bin/flatpak run --branch=stable --arch=x86_64") 2022-10-25 09:30:37 systemd[2210]: Starting flatpak session helper... 2022-10-25 09:30:37 dbus-daemon[2234]: [session uid=1000 pid=2234] Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.Flatpak' 2022-10-25 09:30:37 systemd[2210]: Started flatpak session helper. 2022-10-25 09:30:37 systemd[2210]: Started app-flatpak-org.gnome.Evolution-7164.scope. 2022-10-25 09:30:37 systemd[2210]: app-gnome-org.gnome.Evolution-7164.scope: Succeeded. 2022-10-25 09:30:40 dbus-daemon[2234]: [session uid=1000 pid=2234] Activating service name='org.gnome.Evolution.org.gnome.evolution.dataserver.Sources5' requested by ':1.126' (uid=1000 pid=7178 comm="xdg-dbus-proxy --args=41 ") 2022-10-25 09:30:40 systemd[2210]: Started app-flatpak-org.gnome.Evolution-7221.scope. 2022-10-25 09:30:41 dbus-daemon[2234]: [session uid=1000 pid=2234] Successfully activated service 'org.gnome.Evolution.org.gnome.evolution.dataserver.Sources5' 2022-10-25 09:30:41 evolution-addre[7212]: Error calling GetManagedObjects() when name owner :1.133 for name org.gnome.Evolution.org.gnome.evolution.dataserver.Sources5 came back: GDBus.Error:org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.UnknownMethod: L'objet n'existe pas à l'emplacement « /org/gnome/evolution/dataserver/SourceManager » (==> object doesn't exist) 2022-10-25 09:30:41 systemd[2210]: app-flatpak-org.gnome.Evolution-7221.scope: Succeeded. 2022-10-25 09:30:44 evolution.bin[7251]: Failed to add service 'Sendmail' (sendmail): Aucun fournisseur disponible pour le protocole « sendmail » (=> no protocol provider for sendmail) Anyone have an idea what's going on? Thanks a lot. Best regards, Philippe ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Trouble with gnome evolution
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 14:58 +0200, Philippe Lefèvre wrote: > Error performing TLS handshake: Un paquet TLS incorrect a été reçu. > : an incorrect TLS packet was received Hi, these errors usually come from glib-networking, which uses GnuTLS by default. I think it could have something to do with system crypto policies, but I did not know it influences also Flatpak. Could you try to downgrade to the 3.44.4 version, whether it'll help with anything, please? You can do it with this command: flatpak update --commit \ def74e5bce7c7a789f878f9d1562acfaa431edd6ff29902525d8e37dd1b8a736 \ org.gnome.Evolution// After that make sure no leftover background process from the previous execution of the flatpak evolution left is running, for example with: ps ax | grep evolution | grep app There should be no process from /app/... directory. If there is any such, then kill them. Or simply restart the machine. I recall people claiming some issues with the 3.46.0 due to changed runtime, thus due to libraries Evolution depends on. These libraries can get into the runtime of the 3.44.4 too. For what it's worth, I do not face the problems you face. I tried with 3.46.0 (by Flathub.org) and it added a Google account with no problem, including Contacts and tasks and calendar events. I used Fedora 36. Bye, Milan ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Trouble with gnome evolution
Thank you very much Milan for your kind help. I'm sorry, as you suggested me, I downgraded Evolution to 3.44.4 Evolution org.gnome.Evolution 3.44.4 stable system but I still have the same issue with 3.46. As soon as I authorise Google contact for Evolution connexion, I get : Impossible de se connecter au carnet d’adresses « Google : Contacts » Erreur lors de la négociation TLS: Un paquet TLS incorrect a été reçu. (==> unable to connect to google contacts, error with TLS negociation, an incorrect TLS packet was received) /var/log/syslog contain: 2022-10-25 17:42:30 dbus-daemon[1764]: [session uid=1000 pid=1764] Activating via systemd: service name='org.freedesktop.Flatpak' unit='flatpak-session-helper.service' requested by ':1.119' (uid=1000 pid=5363 comm="/usr/bin/flatpak run --branch=stable --arch=x86_64") 2022-10-25 17:42:30 systemd[1740]: Starting flatpak session helper... 2022-10-25 17:42:31 dbus-daemon[1764]: [session uid=1000 pid=1764] Successfully activated service 'org.freedesktop.Flatpak' 2022-10-25 17:42:31 systemd[1740]: Started flatpak session helper. 2022-10-25 17:42:31 systemd[1740]: Started app-flatpak-org.gnome.Evolution-5363.scope. 2022-10-25 17:42:31 systemd[1740]: app-gnome-org.gnome.Evolution-5363.scope: Succeeded. 2022-10-25 17:42:32 evolution.bin[5436]: Failed to add service 'Informations et blogs' (rss): Aucun fournisseur disponible pour le protocole « rss » (<== No provider available for RSS protocol) 2022-10-25 17:42:32 evolution.bin[5436]: Failed to add service 'Sendmail' (sendmail): Aucun fournisseur disponible pour le protocole « sendmail » (<== No provider available for sendmail protocol) 2022-10-25 17:42:34 evolution.bin[5436]: mail_session_refresh_cb: assertion 'service != NULL' failed Philippe ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 13:09 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > After the deadline of the end of October Mailman archives will remain > alive in read only mode for posterity. If the mailing list was used > behind an alias, please let me know so we can re-do the same setup > but on Discourse instead. > > Thanks, > > P.S All the l10n lists are still pending code changes in damned-lies, > the deadline to decommission those lists may slip by a week or two > depending how soon those changes will be made available in DL > codebase Hi, I just asked Andrea to keep the evolution-list running a bit longer. It's currently postponed to the mid of the November. It gives roughly two more weeks to decide where to go, if anywhere. My personal opinion is to use a free mailing list service. Expecting there will be people not moving to the new location, thus the location will not turn from free to a paid service is not ideal. It's better to stay on the safe side, to avoid another move elsewhere in the near or far future. I suggested the two places where other similar/related projects to the Evolution already have their mailing lists. It might make sense to be nearby to them, from my point of view. Neither of those projects are developed under the GNOME umbrella, though. I do not know what conditions the freedesktop.org [1] or the infradead.org [2] have to accept a new mailing list. It's to be discovered by the list admins, if they/you/we agree on any of these services. Or other services. When it comes to it, the old good SourceForge supports mailing lists as well. I do not mind that much, as long as no money is involved. I do not think it would be fair to ask any money from the volunteers. Invest your wisdom, rather than bugs. Anyway, my personal opinion. Bye, Milan [1] https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/ [2] http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/ ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 18:26 +0200, Milan Crha via evolution-list wrote: > My personal opinion is to use a free mailing list service. Expecting > there will be people not moving to the new location, thus the location > will not turn from free to a paid service is not ideal. It's better to > stay on the safe side, to avoid another move elsewhere in the near or > far future. +1 > I suggested the two places where other similar/related projects to the > Evolution already have their mailing lists. It might make sense to be > nearby to them, from my point of view. Neither of those projects are > developed under the GNOME umbrella, though. > > [1] https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/ > [2] http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/ Joking: [1] does host more than one controversial project, while [2] does host the Mailman mailing list, but the Mailman mailing list is unused :D. A serious concern: Both use Mailman 2. Do they soon migrate to Mailman 3 or to Twitter and Discourse? ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 18:59 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via evolution-list wrote: > Both use Mailman 2. Do they soon migrate to Mailman 3 or to Twitter > and Discourse? Hi, that's a question for them. Bye, Milan ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 18:59 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via evolution-list wrote: > On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 18:26 +0200, Milan Crha via evolution-list > wrote: > > My personal opinion is to use a free mailing list service. > > Expecting > > there will be people not moving to the new location, thus the > > location > > will not turn from free to a paid service is not ideal. It's better > > to > > stay on the safe side, to avoid another move elsewhere in the near > > or > > far future. > > +1 > > > I suggested the two places where other similar/related projects to > > the > > Evolution already have their mailing lists. It might make sense to > > be > > nearby to them, from my point of view. Neither of those projects > > are > > developed under the GNOME umbrella, though. > > > > [1] https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/ > > [2] http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/ > > Joking: > > [1] does host more than one controversial project, while [2] does > host the Mailman mailing list, but the Mailman mailing list is unused > :D. They also host several prominent free software lists, including LibreOffice, Nouveau and gstreamer-* among others. > A serious concern: > > Both use Mailman 2. Do they soon migrate to Mailman 3 or to Twitter > and Discourse? I'll ask them. poc ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 18:26 +0200, Milan Crha via evolution-list wrote: > On Thu, 2022-10-20 at 13:09 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > > After the deadline of the end of October Mailman archives will > > remain > > alive in read only mode for posterity. If the mailing list was used > > behind an alias, please let me know so we can re-do the same setup > > but on Discourse instead. > > > > Thanks, > > > > P.S All the l10n lists are still pending code changes in damned- > > lies, > > the deadline to decommission those lists may slip by a week or two > > depending how soon those changes will be made available in DL > > codebase > > Hi, > I just asked Andrea to keep the evolution-list running a bit longer. > It's currently postponed to the mid of the November. It gives roughly > two more weeks to decide where to go, if anywhere. > > My personal opinion is to use a free mailing list service. Expecting > there will be people not moving to the new location, thus the > location > will not turn from free to a paid service is not ideal. It's better > to > stay on the safe side, to avoid another move elsewhere in the near or > far future. > I agree. > I suggested the two places where other similar/related projects to > the > Evolution already have their mailing lists. It might make sense to be > nearby to them, from my point of view. Neither of those projects are > developed under the GNOME umbrella, though. > Agreed again. > I do not know what conditions the freedesktop.org [1] or the > infradead.org [2] have to accept a new mailing list. It's to be > discovered by the list admins, if they/you/we agree on any of these > services. Or other services. When it comes to it, the old good > SourceForge supports mailing lists as well. > > I do not mind that much, as long as no money is involved. I do not > think it would be fair to ask any money from the volunteers. Invest > your wisdom, rather than bugs. Can you ask them? Probably better not to have several people asking the same questions. We'd also need to know if they support migrating the current list membership. I think it would help if they could also host the archive, simply to avoid having it split between two sites, before and after the change. poc ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 22:23 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > Can you ask them? Probably better not to have several people asking > the same questions. Hi, I can ask David, the infradead.org person, though I thought I'll keep the real paper work to somebody more knowledgeable than me. > We'd also need to know if they support migrating the > current list membership. I won't do that. Let the people decide which sites hold their mail addresses. Some may not like being moved to a different site without their explicit agreement. People should also choose their mailing list password on their own. > I think it would help if they could also host the archive, simply to > avoid having it split between two sites, before and after the change. While it makes perfect sense for archive searching, I won't do that too. When you open https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/ and go to the bottom, then the Download section shows sizes for respective months since year 2000. Those are gzip compressed .mbox files. For example September 2022 shows 511KB compressed and when I decompress it, it's 947K. I did not count all the years, but I'd rather not use so much space on the new site immediately after moving there. That won't be good. Bye, Milan ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
Re: [Evolution] Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Wed, 2022-10-26 at 07:34 +0200, Milan Crha via evolution-list wrote: > On Tue, 2022-10-25 at 22:23 +0100, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: > > Can you ask them? Probably better not to have several people asking > > the same questions. > > Hi, > I can ask David, the infradead.org person, though I thought I'll keep > the real paper work to somebody more knowledgeable than me. Hi, there's still the option to open a list at risup.net [1], [2]. Regards, Ralf [1] " Western Meadowlark replied... about 6 hours ago Hi Ralf, Please go ahead and create the list request. I don't see why would have a problem hosting a list for a FLOSS MUA - personally, I think FLOSS itself is a movement for radical social change given the power and role of proprietary software in the world. Best wishes," - https://support.riseup.net/en/ticket/3227QJ76OfCW7Ci7 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riseup ___ evolution-list mailing list evolution-list@gnome.org To change your list options or unsubscribe, visit ... https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/evolution-list
