Re: [Evolution] Is there to get an unread mail indicator next to each account name?

[Pete Biggs]

> 
> TheBat! - Not so well known but feature rich and solidly built 
> (Windows). Does show unread message count when all you can see is the 
> account name.

Can't comment - commercial Windows email client.

> 
> ThunderBird - Migrating over to this opensource alternative to TheBat!  
> Not nearly as slick but very well known and used and yes it does show 
> unread message count when all you can see is the account name.

Yes, and it's useless.  For me it currently shows 47811 - of which
precisely 2 are in my Inbox. And Thunderbird doesn't look in anything
but the Inbox for new messages as far as I can see: I get new mail in
multiple folders, some of which are much more important for me than
what arrives in my Inbox.

> 
> kmail - For my Android phone. Yes it does show unread message count when 
> all you can see is the account name. I do believe this is reasonably 
> well known when it comes to cell phones but can't say for sure.

Apple mail doesn't - it only shows the mail count in the Inbox for the
account.

> 
> Outlook 2013 - Not next to the account name but in a summary on the 
> right instead. Probably not the best of designs since that only works 
> for the account you are on however at least they tried and recognize the 
> need in some fashion.

It shows a summary of the account - only showing the mail count in the
Inbox. 

> 
> Evolution. No it doesn't.

Well clearly Evolution doesn't suit your needs then.

Personally I think working with all your mail folder trees totally
collapsed is not standard working practice for most people.

Besides, I have given you a work around for Evolution using search
folders - which you have conveniently ignored.  Just because Evolution
doesn't do things in the same way as other clients, doesn't mean that
it is wrong, it's just different.

> 
> I believe that Outlook & Thuderbird are by far the main ones known and 
> used out there however I personally only use Outlook to help determine 
> settings for Evolution when I have to do something with the corporate 
> world (not saying more as it gets off topic). In any case, all do show 
> an indicator except Evolution and Outlook and even Outlook has a stab at 
> showing the unread message count - just not very intelligently done when 
> you get into larger numbers of email accounts - for one or two how they 
> do it is pretty good. I cannot say even that for Evolution.

The bottom line is that the mail client you use is up to you.  If
Evolution is not suitable for the way you work, then don't use it - you
seem to like Thunderbird and if you are using both Windows and Linux,
then it may well be better for you to use a consistent client on both
systems.

If you MUST use Evolution, then you have to work within its parameters 
- and find ways around what you perceive as its shortcomings.  Or, of
course, this is all open source software and I'm sure the devs will be
happy to receive and assess patches to implement new features.

Oh, and please don't top post on this mailing list.

P.

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Re: [Evolution] Is there to get an unread mail indicator next to each account name?

[Nybbles2Bytes]

I appreciate  your thoughts but again, the last thing I asked was where
do I go to make a feature request. Saying you think it's a bad idea
(even if only indirectly through your arguments) is simply one opinion
vs another and is useless. Now a survey of a 1000 peoples opinions
starts to have meaning done properly but that wasn't what I asked. In
any case, Milan kindly answered that so I have my answer and know how to
make the request.

Regarding a couple of your comments:

"Personally I think working with all your mail folder trees totally
collapsed is not standard working practice for most people."

Agreed! ...when you have one or just a few email accounts. Now try it
with 20 to 50 and vertical space becomes a premium so you have to change
your practices a little to accommodate.

"Besides, I have given you a work around for Evolution using search
folders..."

I tried this long before you mentioned it and it was buggy. Often I
would rely on the search folder for new unread messages only to find
they were in an IMAP folder but not reflected in the search result. Also
if I remember correctly (I could be wrong) it didn't easily show what
account the message was from nor make an easy way to open up the
original message from the search folder (something TheBat! excelled at:
Right+Click then select Locate Original).

That all being said, even if the workaround did work flawlessly. The key
phrase is "workaround". Having a workaround available shouldn't stop
anybody from putting a feature request in.

The best that will happen is we'll have a new feature and the worst they
ignore your request -- or vise versa depending on your opinions so
where's the problem here? To me it's arguing for the sake of arguing and
not really worth any further time or effort.


On Tue, 2015-07-14 at 09:54 +0100, Pete Biggs wrote:

> > 
> > TheBat! - Not so well known but feature rich and solidly built 
> > (Windows). Does show unread message count when all you can see is the 
> > account name.
> 
> Can't comment - commercial Windows email client.
> 
> > 
> > ThunderBird - Migrating over to this opensource alternative to TheBat!  
> > Not nearly as slick but very well known and used and yes it does show 
> > unread message count when all you can see is the account name.
> 
> Yes, and it's useless.  For me it currently shows 47811 - of which
> precisely 2 are in my Inbox. And Thunderbird doesn't look in anything
> but the Inbox for new messages as far as I can see: I get new mail in
> multiple folders, some of which are much more important for me than
> what arrives in my Inbox.
> 
> > 
> > kmail - For my Android phone. Yes it does show unread message count when 
> > all you can see is the account name. I do believe this is reasonably 
> > well known when it comes to cell phones but can't say for sure.
> 
> Apple mail doesn't - it only shows the mail count in the Inbox for the
> account.
> 
> > 
> > Outlook 2013 - Not next to the account name but in a summary on the 
> > right instead. Probably not the best of designs since that only works 
> > for the account you are on however at least they tried and recognize the 
> > need in some fashion.
> 
> It shows a summary of the account - only showing the mail count in the
> Inbox. 
> 
> > 
> > Evolution. No it doesn't.
> 
> Well clearly Evolution doesn't suit your needs then.
> 
> Personally I think working with all your mail folder trees totally
> collapsed is not standard working practice for most people.
> 
> Besides, I have given you a work around for Evolution using search
> folders - which you have conveniently ignored.  Just because Evolution
> doesn't do things in the same way as other clients, doesn't mean that
> it is wrong, it's just different.
> 
> > 
> > I believe that Outlook & Thuderbird are by far the main ones known and 
> > used out there however I personally only use Outlook to help determine 
> > settings for Evolution when I have to do something with the corporate 
> > world (not saying more as it gets off topic). In any case, all do show 
> > an indicator except Evolution and Outlook and even Outlook has a stab at 
> > showing the unread message count - just not very intelligently done when 
> > you get into larger numbers of email accounts - for one or two how they 
> > do it is pretty good. I cannot say even that for Evolution.
> 
> The bottom line is that the mail client you use is up to you.  If
> Evolution is not suitable for the way you work, then don't use it - you
> seem to like Thunderbird and if you are using both Windows and Linux,
> then it may well be better for you to use a consistent client on both
> systems.
> 
> If you MUST use Evolution, then you have to work within its parameters 
> - and find ways around what you perceive as its shortcomings.  Or, of
> course, this is all open source software and I'm sure the devs will be
> happy to receive and assess patches to implement new features.
> 
> Oh, and please don't top post on this mailing list.
> 
> P.
>

Re: [Evolution] Is there to get an unread mail indicator next to each account name?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 23:03 -0700, Nybbles 2 Bytes wrote:
> get but no programmer of any significant ability would write it that
> way. It would be written something like: When the read status in a 
> folder changes, change the count variable for that folder.

"when the read status in a folder changes" - there is no such thing. 
 You know because you poll.

IDLE is a per-folder operation, so you would need to IDLE on every
folder.  That does not scale well.

At least this is what I believe, unless something has been added to
IMAP at some point [which would be nice, but I am unaware of it].

> be some time to initially set all the counts but that's a one time 
> thing and unless you have 100's of 1000's of folders and emails, 
> very unlikely o be all that noticeable.

Having 100s of folders and thousands of messages would be the normal
situation in a modern mail account.


-- 
Adam Tauno Williams  GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA

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Re: [Evolution] Is there to get an unread mail indicator next to each account name?

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Mon, 2015-07-13 at 22:55 -0700, Nybbles 2 Bytes wrote:
> For the sake of comparison since you said, "OK, I use several 
> clients, 
> and none do this.", in recent times I use 5 email clients and how 
> they work pertaining to this is as follows (let's get down to real 
> details
> rather than being vague that we use a lot of them):
> ThunderBird - Migrating over to this opensource alternative to 
> TheBat!  
> Not nearly as slick but very well known and used and yes it does show

> unread message count when all you can see is the account name.

Ah, yes, TB may show you an alert/number.  However, it is innacurate. 
 This has been 'broken' in TB forever.

> kmail - For my Android phone. Yes it does show unread message 
> countwhen 
> all you can see is the account name. I do believe this is reasonably 
> well known when it comes to cell phones but can't say for sure.

K-9 for Android does this as well; but it is inaccurate, or at least
incomplete.  It only checks some folders.  Mostly it just reflects the
INBOX.

> Outlook 2013 - Not next to the account name but in a summary on the 
> right instead. Probably not the best of designs since that only works
> for the account you are on however at least they tried and recognize
> the need in some fashion.

Also does no include all-folders.

Personally it seems showing the unread count from the INBOX next to the
account seems pretty reasonable to me;  I feel the all-folders aspect
is unreasonable.

What I have done in the past is to simply create a virtual-INBOX of the
folders I care to monitor.  That worked well.


-- 
Adam Tauno Williams  GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA

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Re: [Evolution] 3.16.3 on Ubuntu 15.10

[Herr Oswald]

> As far as I'm aware the Ubuntu maintainers for Evolution haven't worked
> on getting 3.16 into the latest version.  The last email exchange I had
> with them implied it was some amount of work (I'm not really sure why
> but mostly seemingly related to EDS) and no one had made the time to
> look at it.

Could you please ask for building recent Evolution versions for ubuntu
14.04 as well? - My argument would be, that it doesnt make much sense to
declare a OS version as "long term support" - and then not to provide
updates for really crucial software.

Thanks,
Wolf

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Re: [Evolution] 3.16.3 on Ubuntu 15.10

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Tue, 2015-07-14 at 12:29 +0200, Herr Oswald wrote:
> Could you please ask for building recent Evolution versions for 
> ubuntu 14.04 as well? - My argument would be, that it doesnt make 
> much sense to declare a OS version as "long term support" - and then 
> not to provide updates for really crucial software.

"Long term support" is for "long term support". You seem not to
understand that the policy of an Ubuntu LTS is not to risk breakage.
For a LTS there only will be upgrades, if there are really good reasons
to upgrade, e.g. for important security reasons. I'm using Arch Linux,
a rolling release, but even a rolling release provides LTS packages, at
least for linux (the kernel). IOW "long term support" means "no
upgrades unless there really, really is the need to upgrade, for a
really, really important reason". The upgrade you wich to get for
Evolution is not going to happen, because it would be the absolutely
opposite of a "long term support" to do this.

If you chose a distro, you need to care about the policy of the distro,
if you chose a release model distro, then you need to care about the
policy of the releases. If "long term support" doesn't fit to your
needs, then you need to chose a different release or perhaps a
different distro.

Regards,
Ralf
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Re: [Evolution] 3.16.3 on Ubuntu 15.10

[Adam Tauno Williams]

On Tue, 2015-07-14 at 12:52 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> If you chose a distro, you need to care about the policy of the 
> distro,
> if you chose a release model distro, then you need to care about the
> policy of the releases. If "long term support" doesn't fit to your
> needs, then you need to chose a different release or perhaps a
> different distro.

+1

LTS is like the 100,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty.  They won't
upgrade the stereo when a better version with a touch screen comes out.
 They will replace the air bag if the error light comes on.  LTS is,
ultimately, *not* what most desktop/workstation users want;  the
desktop evolves too quickly,.

-- 
Adam Tauno Williams  GPG D95ED383
Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA

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Re: [Evolution] 3.16.3 on Ubuntu 15.10

[Pete Biggs]

> Could you please ask for building recent Evolution versions for ubuntu
> 14.04 as well? - My argument would be, that it doesnt make much sense to
> declare a OS version as "long term support" - and then not to provide
> updates for really crucial software.
> 

There's a difference between updates and upgrades.  

***Disclaimer: I don't know the policies for Ubuntu (LTS or any other
version).***

RHEL - i.e. I presume what an Ubuntu LTS version is trying to be like -
sticks with a major version of a piece of software for the lifetime of
the OS - which is about 10 years.  The reasoning behind this is
stability and predictability.  If a company is investing resources in
either using RHEL or producing software for it, then they need to know
that their investment is going to have some longevity and the chance to
show benefits.  The critical thing is that bug fixes are back-ported
(if appropriate) from more recent versions, but the features of the
software itself are kept stable.

It's particularly critical for something like Evolution - in order to
upgrade Evolution, you basically need to update the whole of the Gnome
infrastructure.  Updating Gnome, the default desktop, will have knock
-on effects on other software and on the user experience necessitating
re-writing software, re-writing training manuals, re-training staff and
so on.

Using an enterprise class OS comes with the benefits of stability both
in terms of features and against crashes; but you have to weigh against
it the fact that you don't get the most recent versions of
applications.

If you want the most recent versions of software, use a distro that
provides them.

P.
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Re: [Evolution] Is there to get an unread mail indicator next to each account name?

[Pete Biggs]

> 
> TheBat! - Not so well known but feature rich and solidly built 
> (Windows). Does show unread message count when all you can see is the 
> account name.
> 

If you like TheBat! so much, you might like to know that it works under
Wine on Linux.

P.
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Re: [Evolution] 3.16.3 on Ubuntu 15.10

[Ralf Mardorf]

The happy medium.

On my Arch Linux I maintain a few outdated libs.
The /usr/lib/*foo*.so links are only need at build time, at runtime
just /usr/lib/*foo*.so.1, /usr/lib/*foo*.so.1.2, /usr/lib/*foo*.so.2
etc. are needed. So I can keep some old software on a rolling release.

When using an LTS of a release model distro, because it's needed for
most software, it's still an option to run current versions of
Evolution on an guest OS in a virtual machine.

This two solutions easily can be maintained by newbies too, especially
since for the second purpose VirtualBox can be used instead of a more
complicated virtualisation.

There are other solutions, hardcoding library paths and installing to
/opt, a chroot with a different install and perhaps others, that are
not that easy to maintain.

What I want to point out is, that the OP could use the installed LTS
and in virtualbox run a minimal install off another distro, providing
the latest version of Evolution. The VirtualBox guest can be integrated
seamless inside of the host WM/DE.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: [Evolution] 3.16.3 on Ubuntu 15.10

[Paul Smith]

On Tue, 2015-07-14 at 12:29 +0200, Herr Oswald wrote:
> > As far as I'm aware the Ubuntu maintainers for Evolution haven't worked
> > on getting 3.16 into the latest version.  The last email exchange I had
> > with them implied it was some amount of work (I'm not really sure why
> > but mostly seemingly related to EDS) and no one had made the time to
> > look at it.
> 
> Could you please ask for building recent Evolution versions for ubuntu
> 14.04 as well? - My argument would be, that it doesnt make much sense
> to declare a OS version as "long term support" - and then not to
> provide updates for really crucial software.

In addition to what others have said about what "long term support"
means (which I wholly agree with), I'll just point out that Ubuntu has
made it crystal clear that they don't consider Evolution crucial
software, and certainly not "really crucial" software :).  It may be
crucial to us, but it's not that important to them.

I do use Ubuntu (Ubuntu GNOME to be precise) because I prefer Debian and
its infrastructure and system design choices over Red Hat/Fedora and its
infrastructure and system design choices.  I don't believe one is
massively better, and I have used and continue to use both, I just
prefer Debian and that's what I'm used to.  I used Debian sid, then
testing, for a long time, then switched to Ubuntu to get the 6 month
upgrade cycle.  If someone creates a reliable Debian-based distro which
is more like what Ubuntu used to be before Unity, for example ensuring
that ALL the latest Gnome apps are present in each release, I'd probably
switch to that, but that's a tall order.

And finally, I'm not more or less qualified to ask for anything than
anyone else... if you have a request then you should make the request,
not ask me to make the request.  The more individual people who request
something the more likely it is to get fixed.  But I wouldn't hold my
breath about a backport of GNOME 3.16 apps to Ubuntu 14.04 LTS.

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[Evolution] Why does not copy & paste work in separate monitor setup?

[Bjørn T Johansen]

I have two monitors that is setup as two separate X screens and I run Evolution 
on one screen. But if I need to copy any text from Evolution to the
other monitor, that is not possible... I have to paste it into something else 
running on the same monitor as Evolution and then copy again from this
application. Then I can paste it in the other monitor..

Is this by design or? Is there anyway to fix this?


Regards,

BTJ

-- 
---
Bjørn T Johansen

b...@havleik.no
---
Someone wrote:
"I understand that if you play a Windows CD backwards you hear strange Satanic 
messages"
To which someone replied:
"It's even worse than that; play it forwards and it installs Windows"
---
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Re: [Evolution] Why does not copy & paste work in separate monitor setup?

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2015-07-14 at 21:06 +0200, Bjørn T Johansen wrote:
> I have two monitors that is setup as two separate X screens and I run 
> Evolution on one screen. But if I need to copy any text from 
> Evolution to the
> other monitor, that is not possible... I have to paste it into 
> something else running on the same monitor as Evolution and then copy 
> again from this
> application. Then I can paste it in the other monitor..
> 
> Is this by design or? Is there anyway to fix this?

It's certainly not by design, but you don't say which version of
Evolution this is,
nor which desktop you're running,
nor which version of X11 is underneath,
so it's unlikely anyone can answer your question.

poc
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Re: [Evolution] Why does not copy & paste work in separate monitor setup?

[Bjørn T Johansen]

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:15:38 +0100
Patrick O'Callaghan  wrote:

> On Tue, 2015-07-14 at 21:06 +0200, Bjørn T Johansen wrote:
> > I have two monitors that is setup as two separate X screens and I run 
> > Evolution on one screen. But if I need to copy any text from 
> > Evolution to the
> > other monitor, that is not possible... I have to paste it into 
> > something else running on the same monitor as Evolution and then copy 
> > again from this
> > application. Then I can paste it in the other monitor..
> > 
> > Is this by design or? Is there anyway to fix this?
> 
> It's certainly not by design, but you don't say which version of
> Evolution this is,
> nor which desktop you're running,
> nor which version of X11 is underneath,
> so it's unlikely anyone can answer your question.
> 
> poc

Well, I did not include those information because it does not seem to matter... 
I was running Fedora 21 and Mate with Evolution 3.12.x (not sure
which verson of X). I have now just reinstalled my computer but I am now 
running Arch with Openbox and Evolution 3.16.4 and X 1.17.2.
And I have the same problem on both...

BTJ
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Re: [Evolution] Why does not copy & paste work in separate monitor setup?

[Pete Biggs]

> Well, I did not include those information because it does not seem to 
> matter...

Things like cut and paste are dealt with at some levels by the Window
manager and at others by the underlying X11 and sometimes by the
application.  So yes, it is important to know what desktop you're
running.

>  I was running Fedora 21 and Mate with Evolution 3.12.x (not sure
> which verson of X). I have now just reinstalled my computer but I am 
> now running Arch with Openbox and Evolution 3.16.4 and X 1.17.2.
> And I have the same problem on both...

Have you tried just running Evolution on a standard Gnome desktop
rather than using Mate or Openbox or whatever.

Also, how are you doing the cut and paste? Ctrl-X/Ctrl-V? Right click
menus? Highlight and middle click? Edit menu?

Finally, can I just check that you are running two separate X servers
on the two monitors and not just spanning your desktop across two
screens?

P.
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