Re: [DNG] Detailed technical treatise of systemd
Meh. I enjoy the beautiful simplicity and stability of Devuan Alpha 2. I hope it only gets better. It is how Linux is meant to be. Go Devuan!! On 10/16/2015 10:38 AM, richard white wrote: All, A detailed technical treatise of systemd http://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2015/10/11/0/ -Rich ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] XFCE terminal alternatives?
I've been using Devuan on my desktop for a number of months now. Very nice! Only thing is about once a week the XFCE Terminal (in drop down mode) will sort of crash when closing GTK applications. Sometimes closing Geeqie will crash it, other times Firefox. Not sure how that's related. The application doesn't segfault, but rather the area on the desktop which is occupied by the terminal will repaint entirely black. If I switch to another desktop, I can trigger a drop-down which basically moves the black area to the current desktop. Input seems to be funneled to the application which was previously focused even with the black window on top of everything else. The only way to get rid of the problem is to open an Xterm and kill the xfce-terminal process. Consequently, this also trashes anything running in the myriad of tabs which may have been open. I like the tabs and the drop-down feature of XFCE Terminal as well as the light footprint. I've tried others[1] such as Terra Terminal, Terminator and Yakuake but can't seem to find one with all the right features. Any suggestions? ...installing Guake atm.. [1] http://www.tecmint.com/linux-terminal-emulators/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] XFCE terminal alternatives?
Thanks for all the input! Guake wasn't what I wanted so thought I'd install LXDE and have at it (as Steve mentioned). Seems OK so far even with xfce-terminal in dropdown mode. Time will tell.. hotkey configuration is a bit annoying but oh well. XML beats a registry any day ;) PS: Found out today my DNG subscription was "disabled due to excessive bounces" so wasn't getting any mail off this list. Seems fixed now (after logging into gmail interface and clicking dng-request link to re-enable). ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] DNG/Gmail Bounces (was: XFCE terminal alternatives?)
On 12/09/2015 11:21 AM, Rowland Penny wrote: On 09/12/15 17:11, Go Linux wrote: On Wed, 12/9/15, dev wrote: Several of us get those notices frequently. After I get one, I always check the mail archives to make sure I haven't missed anything. I got one, the only reason I could think why, was that gmail kept putting various emails into spam. There seemed to be no reason why gmail did this, so I added a gmail filter to not send any mail from dng to spam. As it turns out, I have many messages from dng in Gmail spam as well. I suspect you are correct. I've applied a filter as well. Hopefully preventing future problems. Thanks for the input. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] My virtual terminals seem amiss
Hello, I noticed today, upon trying to rebuild my nvidia module, that I have no login available on the virtual terminals customarily available via the keypress [CTRL][ALT]+(F1-F8 keys). The keypresses work, showing console output, but there is no "login:" /etc/inittab is here: $ egrep -v '(#|^$)' /etc/inittab id:2:initdefault: si::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS ~~:S:wait:/sbin/sulogin l0:0:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 0 l1:1:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 1 l2:2:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 2 l3:3:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 3 l4:4:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 4 l5:5:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 5 l6:6:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 6 z6:6:respawn:/sbin/sulogin ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t1 -a -r now pf::powerwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail start pn::powerfailnow:/etc/init.d/powerfail now po::powerokwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail stop 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3 4:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4 5:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5 6:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6 And this is /proc/cmdline. Nothing odd in there either: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-amd64 \ root=UUID=903c83ee-aa77-41c3-aaac-548a4f280c45 ro ipv6.disable=1 Any thoughts how to get this working? Thanks ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] My virtual terminals seem amiss
On 03/07/2016 11:28 AM, Steve Litt wrote: :: Step 1 is this: :: :: ps ax | grep getty Thanks Steve. Mine is: $ ps ax | grep getty 2575 tty1 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty1 2576 tty2 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty2 2577 tty3 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty3 2578 tty4 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty4 2579 tty5 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty5 2580 tty6 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty6 6301 pts/7S+ 0:00 grep getty RE: anon.ud...@subscribed.udmvt.ru Here is my tty listing: $ ls -l /dev/tty[1-6] crw--w 1 root tty 4, 1 Mar 8 08:08 /dev/tty1 crw--w 1 root tty 4, 2 Mar 8 10:09 /dev/tty2 crw--w 1 root tty 4, 3 Mar 8 08:08 /dev/tty3 crw--w 1 root tty 4, 4 Mar 8 08:08 /dev/tty4 crw--w 1 root tty 4, 5 Mar 8 08:08 /dev/tty5 crw--w 1 root tty 4, 6 Mar 8 08:08 /dev/tty6 :: Do you also have at least one /sbin/getty implementation installed? Yes, it appears to be a symlink however. maybe does not matter: $ dir /sbin/getty lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 May 25 2015 /sbin/getty -> agetty $ dir /sbin/agetty -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 39792 May 25 2015 /sbin/agetty :: Make sure /sbin/getty is runnable by root, test how it runs: This appears to function correctly also. # /sbin/getty 38400 tty8 ^Z [1]+ Stopped /sbin/getty 38400 tty8 # bg [1]+ /sbin/getty 38400 tty8 & # ps -ef | grep getty root 2575 1 0 08:08 tty1 00:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty1 ... root 7064 6909 0 10:16 pts/700:00:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty8 :: And also do cat /dev/vcs7 | less It's there :) # fgrep login /dev/vcs8 login: :: be sure you are in the runlevel 2 or 3 looks good. # runlevel N 2 :: vbetool vbemode set 3 I ran this in xfce4-terminal from the desktop. It blinked out the video signal then returned to the desktop. I'm assuming this should be run from rc.local or something similar when in a true textmode environment? RE: hendrik "...terminals...don't come back until a reboot.": Have rebooted, still no luck :/ RE: Rainer Wikusat: :: You aren't per chance running a display manager on tty1.. I don't know how to tell. When I reboot, Slim comes up on the screen and I login. tty output (from xfce4-terminal): $ tty /dev/pts/10 who output: $ who devuanuser tty5 Mar 8 10:21 devuanuser pts/0Mar 8 08:10 (:0.0) devuanuser pts/1Mar 8 08:10 (:0.0) devuanuser pts/3Mar 8 08:13 (:0.0) devuanuser pts/4Mar 8 08:57 (:0.0) devuanuser pts/5Mar 8 09:05 (:0.0) devuanuser pts/6Mar 8 09:08 (:0.0) devuanuser pts/7Mar 8 10:08 (:0.0) devuanuser pts/8Mar 8 10:15 (:0.0) devuanuser pts/9Mar 8 10:30 (:0.0) devuanuser pts/10 Mar 8 10:30 (:0.0) Here is the ps output you mention: # ps faux | grep get[t] root 2575 0.0 0.0 14416 1940 tty1 Ss+ 08:08 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty1 root 2576 0.0 0.0 14416 2056 tty2 Ss+ 08:08 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty2 root 2577 0.0 0.0 14416 1996 tty3 Ss+ 08:08 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty3 root 2578 0.0 0.0 14416 1928 tty4 Ss+ 08:08 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty4 root 2580 0.0 0.0 14416 1944 tty6 Ss+ 08:08 0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty6 RE: fsmithred :: Have you tried adding 'nomodeset' to the boot command? Hrm.. not yet, I will try later this morning. :: Which nvidia card are you using? $ lspci | grep NV 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: NVIDIA Corporation GM107 [GeForce GTX 750 Ti] (rev a2) 01:00.1 Audio device: NVIDIA Corporation Device 0fbc (rev a1) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] My virtual terminals seem amiss
On 03/07/2016 06:46 PM, fsmithred wrote: Have you tried adding 'nomodeset' to the boot command? Which nvidia card are you using? This seems to have fixed it. Oddly enough, another devuan box I have does not need this boot param. hrm... I took it one step further and rebooted with "vga=791" to make the text console a bit more "roomy". Thanks for all the help everyone! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] I have not seen any updates lately
Hi All, I run Devuan, as well as some ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04 boxes,and noticed many handfuls of updates over the past few weeks for Ubuntu but nothing for Devuan. Usually there is something that trickles down to Devuan when I notice a lot of Ubuntu updates so just wondering... Are we just that awesome that nothing has needed patching lately or have I perhaps missed a thread about this? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] apt-get vs. aptitude ?
Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could offer some clarity on how best to apply patches on Debian derived systems? There are so many options across apt-get and aptitude... I cannot make sense of them all: apt-get upgrade apt-get dist-upgrade apt-get safe-upgrade aptitude upgrade aptitude safe-upgrade aptitude full-upgrade The man pages tell about the different options, but I don't know if removing packages to resolve dependencies is a good thing or not. Then I found the link below[1] explaining that 'aptitude' is the tool to use on Debian while other information[2] suggests that 'apt-get' is the tool to use so I'm confused and hoping some of you generous folks could provide some insight here or at least admit you are as confused as I am. Thanks [1] https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-uptodate.en.html [2] http://askubuntu.com/questions/81585/what-is-dist-upgrade-and-why-does-it-upgrade-more-than-upgrade ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] apt-get vs. aptitude ?
On 04/15/2016 03:27 PM, Mitt Green wrote: dev wrote: apt-get safe-upgrade "apt safe-upgrade" doesn't exist, only "aptitude safe-upgrade"; Ah, yes. My mistake. Thank you for this and the related insight. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] apt-get vs. aptitude ?
On 04/15/2016 03:36 PM, Linux O'Beardly wrote:
For what it's worth, much of the apt vs aptitude is preference and
opinion. However, aptitude does bit better of a job resolving
dependencies and preventing them from breaking your system.
Yes, That's what I've always read so I have always used aptitude but in
this instance I have packages that will not upgrade via aptitude. I
mention this case specifically as the Debian docs[1] say "aptitude is
the recommended package manager for Debian".
I post this question with the intent to investigate why I might need to
familiarize myself more with APT as it's evident there are use cases
where aptitude cannot get the job done. I have struggled with situations
similar to this only rarely and could have possibly saved my self some
time knowing the nuances of APT (Debian indeed has one of the most
diverse set of package management tools around). With that in mind,
consider the following on this Debian Wheezy based system (apologies in
advance for the length of this post, but it seems pertinent to include)...
#
# apt-get upgrade <--<< kernel 2.6.32 will NOT install, updates will
#
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
proxmox-ve-2.6.32
The following packages will be upgraded:
base-files libnvpair1 libpve-common-perl libuutil1 libwbclient0
libzfs2 libzpool2 openssh-client openssh-server samba-common smbclient
ssh tzdata
13 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 8975 kB of archives.
After this operation, 1438 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]?
#
# apt-get dist-upgrade <--<< kernel will install, updates will
#
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following NEW packages will be installed:
pve-kernel-2.6.32-45-pve
The following packages will be upgraded:
base-files libnvpair1 libpve-common-perl libuutil1 libwbclient0
libzfs2 libzpool2 openssh-client openssh-server proxmox-ve-2.6.32
samba-common smbclient ssh tzdata
14 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 46.2 MB of archives.
After this operation, 1438 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]?
#
# aptitude upgrade <--<< kernel will install, updates will NOT
#
Resolving dependencies...
The following NEW packages will be installed:
pve-kernel-2.6.32-45-pve{a}
The following packages will be upgraded:
base-files libnvpair1 libpve-common-perl libuutil1 libwbclient0
libzfs2 libzpool2 openssh-client openssh-server proxmox-ve-2.6.32
samba-common smbclient ssh tzdata
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
openssh-blacklist openssh-blacklist-extra samba-common-bin
14 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 46.2 MB of archives. After unpacking 1438 kB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]
#
# aptitude safe-upgrade <--<< kernel will install, updates will NOT
#
Resolving dependencies...
The following NEW packages will be installed:
pve-kernel-2.6.32-45-pve{a}
The following packages will be upgraded:
base-files libnvpair1 libpve-common-perl libuutil1 libwbclient0
libzfs2 libzpool2 openssh-client openssh-server proxmox-ve-2.6.32
samba-common smbclient ssh tzdata
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
openssh-blacklist openssh-blacklist-extra samba-common-bin
14 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 46.2 MB of archives. After unpacking 1438 kB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]
#
# aptitude full-upgrade <--<< kernel will install, updates will NOT
#
The following NEW packages will be installed:
pve-kernel-2.6.32-45-pve{a}
The following packages will be upgraded:
base-files libnvpair1 libpve-common-perl libuutil1 libwbclient0
libzfs2 libzpool2 openssh-client openssh-server proxmox-ve-2.6.32
samba-common smbclient ssh tzdata
The following packages are RECOMMENDED but will NOT be installed:
openssh-blacklist openssh-blacklist-extra samba-common-bin
14 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 46.2 MB of archives. After unpacking 1438 kB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n/?]
[1] https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-uptodate.en.html
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Re: [DNG] troll fodder (was Re: hashtag retarded)
Let's just drop this thread cold. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
On 05/16/2016 05:12 AM, Jaromil wrote: To all those who think this and other similar approaches may invalidate the need of our fork: please consider we are not just forking Debian because of systemd, but because the people who have taken over the leadership of that distro have betrayed its mandate, shown no respect of its Constitution and offer no reliability anymore for any reasonable professional use of Debian. Very well spoken. Debian leadership has demonstrated it's disinterest in remaining "Free". There is another motive driving Debian development now and Systemd will end up being the core of Debian. To remove it will only mean uninstalling the entirety of the distro itself. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists
On 05/17/2016 06:45 AM, emnin...@riseup.net wrote: Please do not take my question wrong (probably i am missing something): If it's that way, how can devuan then rely on debian as for packages etc.? At least in a forseeable future ... ? Good question. Devuan and Debian are growing apart (as Jaromil alludes to in a newer message) and that means Devuan will, at some point, have to cut the tethers from Debian (of course, this is the normal and expected path of any fork). It is annonying that after 25 years the Linux community needs to start over. Fortunately some very smart people established the GNU GPL very early on (almost like Stallman saw this coming) and this has prevented anyone from purchasing decades of charitable work and locking it away with a key. Devuan, and a handful of other distros, are the only effort to keep the historic Linux culture alive. Redhat, Debian, SuSE are not, and cannot do it without turning around their monetary/power interests. They also cannot be relied on to be "free and open" so at any time, drastic things could change which intentionally affect any upstream (Devuan) software. I think i understand the nucleus of the problem of init choice but i am not a technician. And like many of you i found disgusting the manners they disputed about systemd or alternatives (it was horrible in arch and even more horrible in siduction. As i see it, the problem of the supporters of systemd is, structurally/logically, they cannot accept the idea of multiple init choices because it's contradictorial to the concept of systemd). SystemD support has some bright people with intentions which run completely counter to the Linux culture of openness. I think they have accepted what they are doing but what they are doing is the antitheses of FOSS in every which way. As a whole, it's not so much about init, but it starts with init. Devuan is the beginning of a big solution to a large problem. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] resolved
On Wed, 08 Jun 2016, Edward Bartolo wrote: fortunately they have a link to offer to non-subscribers, I'm not sure it will expire, however see here https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/690151/721a817ed6377ec3/ FTFA: "Lennart Poettering sees process persistence as a security issue." But then, so is/are: * plugging in an ethernet cable. * allowing users to login * add a user account * a running process * elevated privileges * buffer overflows this list goes on and on. "because security" is just a broad brush for painting thick layer of B.S. A software exploit for a logged in user is just as dangerous as a running process after logout and I fail to see the point of what seems like another knee-slap decision by the systemd cabal. Systemd isn't going to stop until it resemebles nothing like a classic *nix system. Perhaps that's the point. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Installer Devuan Jessie 1.0 fails
On 06/15/2016 11:21 AM, emnin...@riseup.net wrote: So in this very moment, apparently there is no way to install devuan :-( May be someone has an idea about alternatives (???) I did a text mode install with Devuan amd64 DVD.iso over the weekend. In a virt-manager instance no less. Everything worked fine. Maybe give text mode install a try and see if results are better. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [Kali Linux 0003165]: Find a way to disable most services by default with systemd
On 07/12/2016 06:07 PM, Simon Walter wrote: On 07/12/2016 08:45 PM, vmlinux wrote: don't need Kali. most network problems can be resolved with the basics anyway: arping, arp, tcpdump, nslookup, traceroute, netcat, and iptraf. thankfully all standard tools. Problems, yes sure. What about attacking your network AKA pen testing. Does Metasploit require something specific to Kali in order to run it? As far as I know, Kali is just a collection of tools on a convenient disk. Why they need to insist on a systemd based distro boggles my mind in the same way that systemd boggles my mind. It's senseless, pointless and overly complex. As long as I'm on a rant, the same goes for Security Onion. They have a collection of good IDS tools, but they insist on a desktop GUI to be installed along with all the senseless, pointless and overly complex packages that I would simply never install on a box performing security tasks. Why these devs do these things is beyond reason. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Why Debian 8 Pinning is pointless
*sigh* apologies for the length. It was not what I intended.. tldr: "Go devuan! Debian 8 pinning does not work for me" I don't have the thread anymore, but there was something posted within the past couple days which led me to this link -- I think it was something Steve posted; something about a mailing list thread: http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Debian/openrc-conversion.html Someone on the linked thread made a lot of arguments about how Devuan was "an operative overreaction" in response to Systemd; about how the same thing could be done with Debian 8 and the apt pinning workaround. There are two reasons why this will never work, and the logistics behind those two reasons are what makes the work being done on Devuan all the more relevant: 1) Hacking up a distribution which has committed to a systemd hinge-pin is a nice way to find yourself in a headlock someday. You can pin all you want, and force-remove all you want, but one day there will be a package you need (let's pretend it's linux-libc-dev-xxx.x.x) which will have the hinge-pin baked-in. You can no longer update libc. By consequence, you can no longer update anything which depends on libc. Which is like everything. 2) Obviously, some packages are already at that point and already have dependencies baked into some of the fundamental linux packages everyone runs on Linux. Devuan *is* relevant because any systemd bloat which makes it's way into future packages can be delt with by the Devuan community. Which is the fundamental idea Linux was built on. The same fundamental idea which systemd adoption kills. Systemd is vendor lock-in and there is no other way to explain it when "apache2-common" cannot be installed due to libsystemd0 dependency. I mention all this becuase I took the "deb 8" pinning challenge today and it failed miserably. After following all the pinning directions, and removing all systemd related software, my deb 8 system boots fine on openrc, but I cannot use a2enmod as it requires apache2-common which requires libsystemd0. uh whut??... I put the console session on patsebin for brevity here: http://pastebin.com/raw/wZkuskuv I have around 40 Ubuntu 12.04 LTS machines in production. They all need to be upgraded before April of 2017 when security patches become deprecated. I don't know if Devuan will be 1.0 stable by then but completely understand the complexity of the task at hand considering the tentacular and insidious reach of systemd. Our current plan is to go to 14.04 LTS where there is hopefully a minimum of systemd invasion, but any hope for a "Debian" pinning solution is certainly lost. As anxious as I am to install Devuan on everything, my users would not understand the decision to run beta software in production when/if something goes wrong. Here's hoping for a Devuan 1.0 sometime soon and thanks go to those working hard to make that happen. Do not let BS comments like "an operative overreaction" discourage your efforts. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Why Debian 8 Pinning is pointless
On 07/13/2016 01:14 PM, Rick Moen wrote: 'dev' wrote: > You can pin all you want, and force-remove all you want, but > one day there will be a package you need (let's pretend it's > linux-libc-dev-xxx.x.x) which will have the hinge-pin baked-in. You > can no longer update libc. Really? The GNU libc package is going to suffer a dependency chain that requires package systemd? Sure, why not? Poettering and Sievers want systemd in the kernel so why stop when there's an entire distribution to mess up? Quite sad that it had to be Debian; SCO would have been a much better fit especially considering the Microsoft backing and the general dbaggery of SCO leadership. Glibc is just an example but the apache common package dependence is real. It's been specifically compiled with a systemd dependency simply to make the software inoperable when libsystemd0 has been removed. There is no reason to have that library compiled into that package and you know that. All things considered, If the only choice left were Debian I would likely switch to Windows. Far fewer bugs and less... systemDuctape. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Why Debian 8 Pinning is (or isn't) pointless
On 07/26/2016 04:26 AM, Rick Moen wrote: libsystemd0's status as a bundle of interface code that does nothing in the absence of systemd is not because it's a library -- obviously -- but rather because all it _contains_ is interface code that does nothing in the absence of systemd Well now, if that were true, it would not need to be there at all and the apache common lib could be installed without needing that systemd dependency. Correct? It seems I cannot have a functioning Apache system on Debian 8 without installing at least some minimal facet of systemd and that's problematic if not for any other reason than simply being an unnecesary dependency. What this all really illustrates is the insidious nature of systemd assimilation and how far things have gone, and how far they will continue to go. Systemd isn't going to stop at just init. There are far to many opportunities to embrace, extend and extinguish entire distributions. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Why Debian 8 Pinning is (or isn't) pointless
On 07/26/2016 12:37 PM, Rick Moen wrote: It _was_ indeed an unnecessary build dependency. Precisely my point. A point which could be made about systemd in general: A lot of unnecessary. agree that it's 'problematic' in the sense that I'd rather not have it on my systems, but it's not of particular importance. On systems where security and stability are important, needless dependencies and pointless software expose a broader attack surface. On server systems, it's considered best practice to install the minimal amount of software needed for the running services, and no more. Historically speaking, most Linux distros easily strip-down this way. Systemd seems well on it's way to reverse that. I would say that is most certainly of "particular importance" ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Oh, how I hate systemd
On 08/03/2016 06:49 AM, Rowland Penny (by way of Rowland Penny ) wrote: You couldn't make this up, why O why make /etc read only ? For server hardening, sometimes partitions are mounted r/o or with special flags (eg: noexec, nosuid) in order to make it more difficult for an attacker to manipulate filesystem objects. That said, the Fedora incident you mention was likely another "flat tire" situation rather than anything done in the interest of security. As far as I know, Fedora has always been an incubator of the bizzare and unnatural. Trying to pin down any issues on that platform rarely nets any advantage for anything more than sadistic amusement. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] vdev - udev is a dead end
On 08/10/2016 04:26 AM, Didier Kryn wrote: Hello. Thanks to a friendly help, I've found a few mails and articles which deserve to be read: Udev on non-systemd is a dead-end: So.. then.. basically any Linux distro which uses udev to populate /dev/ is going to be S.O.L? Including Slackware presumably? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] [OT] Microsoft Secure Boot key leaked
Just ran across this. Not sure what it means for Open Source bootloaders. "The key basically allows anyone to bypass the provisions Microsoft has put in place ostensibly to prevent malicious versions of Windows from being installed, on any device running Windows 8.1 and upwards with Secure Boot enabled." http://arstechnica.com/security/2016/08/microsoft-secure-boot-firmware-snafu-leaks-golden-key/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] mouse configuration under LXDE?
Hello, I have a logitiech M570 wireless mouse hooked up to my Devuan desktop running LXDE. For the past week or so clicking the middle button (scroll wheel + button) sometimes pastes in two copies of the text, sometimes one copy, and sometimes nothing at all. I installed some updates earlier this week; don't remember what they were. Maybe something in there is messing with USB mouse? I've tried plugging the USB receiver into different ports as well as rebooting, and tried a new battery. Still the same. Is there some other way to fiddle with mouse settings other than what's under "Bird Menu" > preferences > keyboard and mouse? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mouse configuration under LXDE?
Ah.. nevermind... PEBKAC.. I have one of these keyboards https://compass-ssl.xboxlive.com/assets/62/8d/628d39fb-0944-4cc1-9260-60ba6fcffd27.jpg?n=SED_STop_FY16New.jpg And the little "fn" switch in the upper right was accidentally betwixt the two positions. No idea how that relates to the mouse, but sliding it all the way to the right seems to have fixed things. Apologies for the static. On 08/11/2016 10:07 AM, dev wrote: Hello, I have a logitiech M570 wireless mouse hooked up to my Devuan desktop running LXDE. For the past week or so clicking the middle button (scroll wheel + button) sometimes pastes in two copies of the text, sometimes one copy, and sometimes nothing at all. I installed some updates earlier this week; don't remember what they were. Maybe something in there is messing with USB mouse? I've tried plugging the USB receiver into different ports as well as rebooting, and tried a new battery. Still the same. Is there some other way to fiddle with mouse settings other than what's under "Bird Menu" > preferences > keyboard and mouse? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Helping out with Devuan (was: Re: vdev - the next generation)
On 09/23/2016 08:02 AM, Robert Storey wrote: Just want to say Ralph that your work on this is really appreciated. I'll second that. Thanks so much for your time and effort! Also, I feel bad about not having the time to help. Is this the official way to help fund? https://devuan.org/os/donate ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Recommended location for iptables rules
On 12/05/2016 10:50 AM, Lars Noodén wrote: Because iptables-apply is there by default, I'm leaning a bit towards recommending /etc/network/iptables.up.rules as the location over /etc/iptables/rules.v4 Do you still need to consider some users may need ip6tables rules also? Perhaps /etc/iptables/rules.v4 and /etc/iptables/rules.v6 make the most sense. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] OT: Starting bash straight from init?
Hi all, Sorry this is off-topic for this list, but I don't really know where I would ask this question. I've got a Live CD (Ubuntu 14.04) I've remastered and trying to get an autologin with root shell initiated from init. I can get the shell started, but the console I/O is a bit wonky. If I type ls and hit [ENTER], the shell does not seem to see the 's' and only replies with l: command not found. likewise, typing other commands and hitting [ENTER] results in missing keystrokes as well. This happens when I launch this from rc-sysinit.conf: exec /bin/bash --login < /dev/console>/dev/console 2>&1 If I use below, console I/O is correct, but something else is amiss with job control and ioctl: exec /sbin/rungetty --autologin root tty0 - bash: cannot set terminal process group(1132): Inappropiate ioctl for device - bash: no job control in this shell # Pastebin of my rc-sysinit.conf is here: http://pastebin.com/tWVHYEcb Thank you for any tips and thank you for all your work on Devuan. Hopefully I will be remastering Devuan boot CD for my production systems in the not-so-distant future. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Compiling Firefox on Devuan (was: Re: FF pulseaudio hard dependency is here)
On 03/08/2017 11:59 AM, goli...@dyne.org wrote:
> Me either and many others on this list - there have been several
> pulseaudio threads on dng over the years. But that is not the point.
> Unless FF 52 onward is recompiled with the alsa switch enabled, it will
> be unusable for most of us. So this is a heads up that someone will
> have to step forward to do this if it is not worked out upstream. Care
> to take that on?
I've compiled Firefox years ago but don't recall ever getting a
decent application. I think all I could get was a "gecko" window which
one could load with a URL with from the command line. This was probably
10 years ago however so much has probably changed.
According to the docs[1], it looks like there is a "bootstrap.py" [2]
application which must be downloaded and run in order to provision the
build environment. This doesn't work on Devuan because Python's
platform.linux_distribution() is returning a blank stare. Anyone know
why this is? No idea yet where Python is getting these values...
moz build error
--
$ python mozilla-central-default/python/mozboot/bin/bootstrap.py
*** sys.platform:linux2 distro version dist_id
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "mozilla-central-default/python/mozboot/bin/bootstrap.py", line
170, in
sys.exit(main(sys.argv))
File "mozilla-central-default/python/mozboot/bin/bootstrap.py", line
160, in main
dasboot = cls(choice=options.application_choice,
no_interactive=options.no_interactive)
File "mozilla-central-default/python/mozboot/mozboot/bootstrap.py",
line 176, in __init__
raise NotImplementedError('Bootstrap support for this Linux '
NotImplementedError: Bootstrap support for this Linux distro not yet
available.
On Devuan
--
Python 2.7.9 (default, Jun 29 2016, 13:08:31)
[GCC 4.9.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import sys
>>> import platform
>>> print (platform.linux_distribution()[0])
>>> print (platform.linux_distribution()[1])
On debian 8
--
Python 2.7.9 (default, Jun 29 2016, 13:08:31)
[GCC 4.9.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import platform
>>> import sys
>>> print (platform.linux_distribution()[0])
debian
>>> print (platform.linux_distribution()[1])
8.7
>>>
[1]
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Developer_guide/Build_Instructions/Linux_Prerequisites
[2]
https://github.com/mozilla/positron/blob/master/python/mozboot/mozboot/bootstrap.py
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[DNG] systemd allows elevated access from unit files?
Sounds like a "won't fix", too: "So, yeah, I don't think there's anything to fix in systemd here." - Poettering Not sure what's more troubling here[1]; the lack of concern, the digression from POSIX, or the bug/backdoor itself. Maybe all three. useradd 0day works on Devuan. adduser 0day does not. Which is correct? [1] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd allows elevated access from unit files?
On 07/03/2017 09:36 AM, Evilham wrote:
> Hi there,
>
>
> (Maybe we should file a bug on bugs.devuan.org + bugs.debian.org +
> shadow repo against shadow?)
>
Seems pretty straightforward to patch chkname.c feel free to include the
patch if anyone does:
# diff -Naur ./shadow-4.2/libmisc/chkname.c
./shadow-4.2/libmisc/chkname_new.c
--- ./shadow-4.2/libmisc/chkname.c 2017-07-03 09:18:30.0 -0500
+++ ./shadow-4.2/libmisc/chkname_new.c 2017-07-03 09:50:24.331490953 -0500
@@ -81,6 +81,14 @@
|| ('+' == *name)) {
return false;
}
+ // first character cannot be numerical as long as it's not null
(should be caught above)
+ // only process if first digit is not null
+ if ('\0' != *name)
+ {
+ if (isdigit(*name))
+ return false;
+ }
+
do {
if ((':' == *name) || (',' == *name) || isspace(*name)) {
return false;
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Re: [DNG] systemd allows elevated access from unit files?
On 07/03/2017 09:58 AM, Rowland Penny wrote: > > The problem is, '0day' is a perfectly acceptable name in Active > Directory and that includes a Samba AD. Would this be a good case to dis-allow ^0-9 by default but add a switch to allow it? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd allows elevated access from unit files?
On 07/03/2017 10:17 AM, Evilham wrote: > Am 03/07/2017 um 17:06 schrieb dev: >> Would this be a good case to dis-allow ^0-9 by default but add a switch >> to allow it? > > What's the case for disallowing those at all? names starting with a > digit _are_ valid usernames. useradd and adduser work differently. One allows it, the other does not. Just thought 'why not make them work the same?'. That's all. > Is this at all an issue in Devuan, given that we have no systemd? I > think the fix would be more appropriate as a patch to shadow, so that > the behaviour is consistent (e.g. usernames with dots and dashes or, > yes, starting with a digit allowed). Yes, seems to me it would be a patch with upstream, not Devuan. Most likely this whole thing pointless since AD and SAMBA would break because of changing it. :/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd allows elevated access from unit files?
On 07/03/2017 10:40 AM, Evilham wrote: > That's the thing, we can do that :-) probably should, but the "right > way" (from a standards point of view) would be to actually allow those > names ^^ not to disallow them. So instead of modifying the way useradd > works, the way adduser works should be fixed (so, shadow). That was easy ;) Seems to be a flag for that. # adduser 0day --force-badname Allowing use of questionable username. Adding user `0day' ... Adding new group `0day' (1000) ... Adding new user `0day' (1000) with group `0day' ... Creating home directory `/home/0day' ... Copying files from `/etc/skel' ... Enter new UNIX password: ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
Anyone know if there is an Apulse package for Devuan? I thought I had it working a couple months back but now, on a different machine, I cannot find the Apulse package. I don't remember how I got it working. Checking google of course brings up the git repo for apulse but there looks like some issues about sandboxing. https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse Anyone have it working on Devuan and Firefox 55.0.3 64bit ? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
On 09/18/2017 03:54 PM, Joel Roth wrote: > Does FF 55 not support ALSA OOTB? AFAIK, Mozilla got a new bedmate named PulseAudio. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/03/firefox-52-no-sound-pulseaudio-alsa-linux Apulse used to work but now Firefox has some weird sandbox thing causing permissions issues on (bottom of page): https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse. I've added "/dev/snd/" to "security.sandbox.content.write_path_whitelist" but still no luck. Probably not a Devuan thing. Looks like another Smooth Move by Mozilla that will end up costing them market share. I don't like Chrome, but basically forced to choose between Pottering or Google at this point :/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
On 09/20/2017 04:47 AM, Rob van der Putten wrote: >> >> Anyone have it working on Devuan and Firefox 55.0.3 64bit ? > > How about FF and Jackd? > I don't use Jack myself, but a lot people do. IIRC Jack, ALSA and Pulseaudio are three completely different software stacks. Firefox, as compiled from mozilla, will only work with Pulseaudio. Their official reasoning[1] was: "Make Pulse Audio a hard dependency on Linux so that we reduce the problems and maintenance associated with maintaining multiple audio backends." Whatever rationale is behind that decision is beyond me. I only know Firefox worked perfectly for me for over a decade and now it does not. I guess I am switching to Chrome. Another sad day for FOSS. Many of my online classes do not allow downloading of the media to view in Mplayer or VLC so I am really stuck. [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1247056 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
On 09/20/2017 01:47 PM, Rick Moen wrote: > At _least_ try Chromium before adopting a proprietary browser (Chrome). > I don't know why so many Linux users think _only_ of the proprietary > Google Chrome Web browser and not the open source Chromium browser of > which Google Chrome is an odd and untrustworthy variant? It's > dispiriting. Because the last time I tried Chromium it's functionality was about on par with Konquerer and I wrote it off. Perhaps it's matured nicely? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
On 09/26/2017 10:25 AM, Rick Moen wrote: > Haven't you ever stopped to consider where Mozilla, Inc.'s revenue > stream comes from? Hint: not you. Web browser users are not the > company's customers. Who they respect, and who they serve, follows the > money. So, this[1]? I've honestly never bothered to look until you mentioned it. "The Mozilla Corporation's relationship with Google has been noted in the popular press,[30][31] especially with regard to their paid referral agreement. Mozilla's original deal with Google to have Google Search as the default web search engine in the browser expired in 2011, but a new deal was struck, where Google agreed to pay Mozilla just under a billion dollars over three years in exchange for keeping Google as its default search engine. The price was driven up due to aggressive bidding from Microsoft's Bing and Yahoo!'s presence in the auction as well. Despite the deal, Mozilla Firefox maintains relationships with Bing, Yahoo!, Yandex, Baidu, Amazon.com and eBay." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan, Firefox and Apulse
On 10/11/2017 12:26 PM, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult wrote: > On 26.09.2017 09:43, taii...@gmx.com wrote: > >> They haven't put the users at #1 for a long time, why do you think >> that firefox is still very vulnerable to browser fingerprinting? that >> is by design. > > Yes, and its getting worse: now they want to include cliqz - a spyware What the actual hell, Mozilla!?? "About a year ago, Mozilla announced a strategic investment in Cliqz GmbH,"..."Users who receive a version of Firefox with Cliqz will have their browsing activity sent to Cliqz servers, including the URLs of pages they visit." https://blog.mozilla.org/press-uk/2017/10/06/testing-cliqz-in-firefox/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Devuan in top 50
Just noticed Devuan is at position 48 today (Redhat is 46, Gentoo 42, for comparison)! https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=popularity ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan in top 50
On 10/17/2017 03:02 PM, Alessandro Selli wrote: > > Great news for a rookie! > As others alluded to, the rating has little veracity for anything more than "just for fun" however I think it should be noted (perhaps in 8pt font?) that the tool *does* show an upward trend from the 12 month rating. Again, just for fun.. At any rate, it's nice seeing the trend going up rather than down :) I do think it is nonetheless a useful marketing tool (which are all inherently sketchy anyway) for those looking to try a new distro who are not so interested in the metrics behind the numbers. I get the feeling Distrowatch tries their honest-best in terms of accuracy but given the metrics which may be available to them, it's likely a difficult task. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debian testing drop redis non systemd
On 10/18/2017 10:04 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > Does anyone here actually use redis? I looked it up, and to me it looks > like dbus on steroids. An in-memory data store accessible by lots of > different applications. What could POSSIBLY go wrong? > > SteveT The Nextcloud project[1] recommends it as one of it's supported cache system. Likely it's a pretty common tool for web based apps but not sure on that. [1] https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/12/admin_manual/configuration_server/caching_configuration.html ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] OT: Patching De*an based systems at scale
Hi All, I'd like to have a discussion about how to scale patch management on De*an based systems. Right now, my methodology is looping over my servers in a script and saving the output from 'apt list --upgradable'. This seems to be a utility which will display packages needing updates regardless of whether you use apt-get, apt-get dist-upgrade, or apt-get upgrade. Thing is, when I had 20 servers, this method worked quite well. Most of the servers were LAMP stacks. I now host around 60 servers with various software installed, not just Apache and Mysql anymore. The patch list gets complex and involves various software components. I don't always have time to patch right away so I need to plan for potential downtime of the more critical systems and prioritize system patches based on the criticality of the affected software. Knowing why the patch is needed or what was fixed becomes a priority. Are there any utilities out there for making patch management "easier" when dealing with multiple De*an systems? Is there a better way to get information about patch fixes other than digging up the Changelogs from a web browser? Thanks! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] OT: Patching De*an based systems at scale
On 10/26/2017 04:53 PM, Adam Borowski wrote: > You're not insane enough to run an unreleased version on a production > server, right? I would never do that! ;) Seriously though, I might do it in a test environment, so good to know. > You may additionally install apt-listchanges and configure it to show > changelogs, that will fetch relevant (and only those!) changelog entries of > packages you're about to install. Thank you for that information. Is the email and apt-listchanges the only way? apt-listchanges sends notifications from every system. That's 60 duplicate emails in my case, for many packages such as OpenSSH. The DSA mail cuts down the noise but I'm assuming I may be getting mailed about packages that do not pertain to any systems I'm running, correct? I'm trying to avoid what I always end up doing; a perl screen scraper which I cross-reference with apt-get upgrade --dry-run and then parse the pertinent package info into a CSV file that can everyone wants emailed to them, for each server... maybe this is the only way ? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Redhat CEO answers questions
On 10/31/2017 08:43 AM, John Hughes wrote: > On 31/10/17 14:23, Aldemir Akpinar wrote: >> In case you guys have missed, Jim Whitehurst, redhat ceo, answered >> some questions on slashdot, and of course many people asked about >> systemd. You can find the question and his answer here: "...most users have embraced systemd and there was not a large exodus to FreeBSD or alternatives." Differences in OS architecture aside, Switching to FreeBSD is not trivial. Especially if you have an infrastructure built around managing Linux specifics such as package management, Filesystem ACLs and packages specific to Linux which are not available on FreeBSD. Not to mention reams of documentation. All that needs to have countless hours of time re-invested to make it functional. Now take into account the training. Just the firewall itself is so different, even a seasoned linux admin is going to need awhile to connect the dots from Netfilter to Ipfilter. For the alternatives, there is very little that has not been affected by the tentacluar nature of systemd. The "fast boot times" Mr Whitehurst quoted has long been a misnomer for "we're basically going to f--- with everything" and he knows this. I have some systemd encumbered systems and Devuan boot times beat them hands down. The difference is so profound I can't believe anyone at Redhat would even use that as a justification any more but they do because nobody is going to argue with "we did it to make it faster". ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Bluetooth headset on Devuan?
I'm trying to setup a bluetooth wireless headset under Devuan but not able to get past the pairing. Started with the "blueman-applet" which looked nice but after pairing and trusting, three icons would show up ( which I think were related to signal level and volumes) and then they would disappear. Alas, I dropped to the command line to produce the output below via "bluetoothctl". This shows blueman-applet finding, pairing and connecting but ultimately disconnecting from the headset. Any ideas why it will not stay connected? Headset is here: https://www.amazon.com/Labvon-Bluetooth-Headphones-Sweatproof-Cancelling/dp/B075S6WXBH/ BT dongle is here: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Ideapro-Transmitter-Raspberry-Compatible/dp/B00OH09OXS/ Thanks [bluetooth]# info 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 Device 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 Name: S7 Alias: S7 Class: 0x240408 Icon: audio-card Paired: no Trusted: no Blocked: no Connected: no LegacyPairing: yes [DEL] Device 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 S7 [NEW] Device 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 S7 [CHG] Device 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 Connected: yes [CHG] Device 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 UUIDs: 1101--1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 110b--1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 110c--1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 110e--1000-8000-00805f9b34fb 111e--1000-8000-00805f9b34fb [CHG] Device 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 Paired: yes [bluetooth]# info 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 Device 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 Name: S7 Alias: S7 Class: 0x240408 Icon: audio-card Paired: yes Trusted: no Blocked: no Connected: yes LegacyPairing: yes UUID: Serial Port (1101--1000-8000-00805f9b34fb) UUID: Audio Sink(110b--1000-8000-00805f9b34fb) UUID: A/V Remote Control Target (110c--1000-8000-00805f9b34fb) UUID: A/V Remote Control(110e--1000-8000-00805f9b34fb) UUID: Handsfree (111e--1000-8000-00805f9b34fb) [CHG] Device 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 Connected: no ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Bluetooth headset on Devuan?
On 10/31/2017 12:42 PM, Mike Schmitz wrote: > > Another project has picked up the ball and run with it, though. It works > for me (SoundBot SB220) > > https://github.com/Arkq/bluez-alsa > Nice! I've got it almost working. I'm stuck on "Couldn't get BlueALSA transport: No such device" Any thoughts? From what I've googled so far, solutions involve pulseaudio, or reference a pulseaudio conflict. I have some libpulse scattieness installed[0] for apulse support, but maybe I cannot have both? Perhaps I should remove those? So far, I've installed alsa and development libs[1] but had to add the debian jessie repo[2] in order to get libfdk-aac-dev. Is there another place for this? I cloned the bluez-alsa git repo and built per git page[3]. Configured ~/.asoundrc for my bluetooth headset MAC[4]. The alsa-lib directory installed to a location unknown to Devaun[5] so I sylinked[6] the new libraries to a good location. I did 'echo /usr/lib/alsa-lib > /etc/ld.so.conf.d/alsa-lib.conf' but this did not seem to help after issuing ldconfig. The bluealsa "server" seems to start ok and generates no errors[7] when trying to play a sound via aplay, however aplay does not seem to know[8] yet how to use the headset. I did have an issue with permissions on[9] on /var/run/bluealsa but I think I fixed those[9]. Right now, aplay cannot "get BlueALSA transport"[10]. Any thoughts? Thank you! [0] i apulse - PulseAudio emulation for ALSA i libpulse-mainloop-glib0 - PulseAudio client libraries (glib support) i libpulse0 - PulseAudio client libraries i libpulsedsp - PulseAudio OSS pre-load library i pulseaudio-utils- Command line tools for the PulseAudio soun i vlc-plugin-pulse - transitional dummy package for vlc [1] aptitude install libalsaplayer-dev bluez bluez-tools libsbc-dev libfdk-aac-dev alsa-tools alsaplayer-alsa libasound2-dev bluez-hcidump checkinstall libusb-dev libbluetooth-dev libbluetooth-dev libbluetooth3-dev libglib2.0-dev [2] Add debian jessie rep for libfdk-aac-dev libfdk-aac-dev required repo: deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian/ jessie main contrib non-free aptitude install libfdk-aac-dev [3] git clone https://github.com/Arkq/bluez-alsa.git cd bluez-alsa; mkdir build; autoreconf --install; cd build; ../configure --enable-aac --enable-debug make make install [4] $ cat ~/.asoundrc defaults.bluealsa.interface "hci0" defaults.bluealsa.device "02:FC:9F:F8:13:94" defaults.bluealsa.profile "a2dp" [5] $ aplay -D bluealsa:HCI=hci0,DEV=02:FC:9F:F8:13:94,PROFILE=a2dp /usr/share/sounds/purple/Windows\ Notify.wav ALSA lib dlmisc.c:252:(snd1_dlobj_cache_get) Cannot open shared library /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/alsa-lib/libasound_module_pcm_bluealsa.so aplay: main:722: audio open error: No such device or address [6] # ldconfig -v | grep alsa /usr/lib/alsa-lib: libasound_module_ctl_bluealsa.so -> libasound_module_ctl_bluealsa.so libasound_module_pcm_bluealsa.so -> libasound_module_pcm_bluealsa.so # ln -s /usr/lib/alsa-lib/libasound_module_* /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/alsa-lib/ [7] $ bluealsa --disable-hfp bluealsa: ../../src/ctl.c:489: Starting controller loop bluealsa: ../../src/bluez.c:680: Registering endpoint: /A2DP/MPEG24/Source/1 bluealsa: ../../src/bluez.c:680: Registering endpoint: /A2DP/MPEG24/Sink/1 bluealsa: ../../src/bluez.c:680: Registering endpoint: /A2DP/SBC/Source/1 bluealsa: ../../src/bluez.c:680: Registering endpoint: /A2DP/SBC/Sink/1 bluealsa: ../../src/bluez.c:910: Registering profile: /HSP/Headset bluealsa: ../../src/bluez.c:910: Registering profile: /HSP/AudioGateway bluealsa: ../../src/main.c:225: Starting main dispatching loop bluealsa: ../../src/ctl.c:550: New client accepted: 8 bluealsa: ../../src/ctl.c:571: +-+- bluealsa: ../../src/ctl.c:571: +-+- bluealsa: ../../src/ctl.c:521: Client closed connection: 8 bluealsa: ../../src/ctl.c:571: +-+- [8] $ aplay -D bluealsa:HCI=hci0,DEV=02:FC:9F:F8:13:94,PROFILE=a2dp /usr/share/sounds/purple/Windows\ Notify.wav ../../../src/asound/../shared/ctl-client.c:102: Connecting to socket: /var/run/bluealsa/hci0 ALSA lib ../../../src/asound/bluealsa-pcm.c:645:(_snd_pcm_bluealsa_open) BlueALSA connection failed: No such file or directory aplay: main:722: audio open error: No such file or directory [9] chown root:myuser /var/run/bluealsa chmod g+w+s /var/run/bluealsa [10] $ aplay -D bluealsa:HCI=hci0,DEV=02:FC:9F:F8:13:94,PROFILE=a2dp /usr/share/sounds/purple/Windows\ Notify.wav ../../../src/asound/../shared/ctl-client.c:102: Connecting to socket: /var/run/bluealsa/hci0 ../../../src/asound/../shared/ctl-client.c:213: Getting transport for 02:FC:9F:F8:13:94 type 1 ALSA lib ../../../src/asound/bluealsa-pcm.c:658:(_snd_pcm_bluealsa_open) Couldn't get BlueALSA transport: No such
Re: [DNG] Bluetooth headset on Devuan?
On 11/01/2017 06:13 PM, Mike Schmitz wrote: > Ok, false alarm. I forgot to make certain it connected. > You might want to check that too. It is flaky and doesn't always connect > properly. > > I also wrote an init script (attached) that might work for you, when you > get it working. Yes, getting things connected is a bit of a process. Having to set amixer each time to lower the volume levels is a bit of an annyoance. Do you know how to make the bluetooth headset the output device for Palemoon? I would assume it's a setting in ~/.asoundrc. Thanks for passing the script along! I've got it working now, but the audio is quite choppy at times. Not sure why that is. If I set "discoverable" and "scan" to "off" it gets better. Is your experience about the same? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Bluetooth headset on Devuan?
On 11/06/2017 11:04 AM, Mike Schmitz wrote: > I haven't had any problem with this. Well some choppiness when the > computer/network is overworked doing something else... I'm wondering if it's due to buffer underruns. Are these buffer sizes the same as yours:? ../../../src/asound/bluealsa-pcm.c:295: FIFO buffer size: 4096 ../../../src/asound/bluealsa-pcm.c:301: Selected HW buffer: 6 periods x 16000 bytes <= 96004 bytes Thanks ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] WARNING: lvm2 > 2.02.173-1 breaks some systems and make them unbootable
On 11/07/2017 10:29 AM, John Hughes wrote: > On 07/11/17 17:13, Klaus Ethgen wrote: >> [ separate / and /usr ] is the best way to keep your /usr flexible to >> further lvm grows for example. > > Personally I have a / on a lvm2 volume. Works OK for me, I see no loss > in flexibility. Until a user fills up their home directory with kitten gifs and you can no longer login because syslog has no space to write to /var. The "everything on slash" mentality is a short-sighted partitioning workaround that never should have seen the light of day. Many commercial packages do this as well and those systems give me endless grief when applications running there either fill up /var or dump endless blobs in /tmp. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] WARNING: lvm2 > 2.02.173-1 breaks some systems and make them unbootable
On 11/07/2017 10:50 AM, John Hughes wrote: > Neither /home not /var are on /, for obvious reasons. / is for > mostly-static things that are owned by the OS or the admin. Ah, I misunderstood. Apologies for the static. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] OT (..but relevant): reboot command on debian 8 no longer works
Just a heads up. Maybe this is old news to everyone but I run some Proxmox hosts which are based off Debian 8 (I believe) and we've had random problems with the reboot command hanging the system for a good 6 months now. Seems the simple 'reboot' command has been rendered useless. https://www.techrepublic.com/forums/discussions/debian-8-jessie-failing-to-reboot-from-the-command-line/ I still use 'reboot' on Devuan and things work fine. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
I have some online classes which are Flash based "webinars" that I'd like to save for viewing on my train/bus commute. gtk-recordmydesktop works for the video part but I can't record any audio. I'm using straight ALSA on my Devuan system and tried setting gtk-recordmydesktop audio option to PCM and DEFAULT but no good. This is my isntalled pulse packages. Maybe one is in conflict? # aptitude search pulse | grep ^i i apulse - PulseAudio emulation for ALSA i libpulse-mainloop-glib0 - PulseAudio client libraries (glib support) i libpulse0 - PulseAudio client libraries i libpulsedsp - PulseAudio OSS pre-load library i pulseaudio-utils- Command line tools for the PulseAudio soun i vlc-plugin-pulse- transitional dummy package for vlc If I play a regular mpg file on my system with vlc, the audio works fine so I don't think it's vlc playback that has the problem. Thanks ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
On 01/31/2018 09:15 AM, Irrwahn wrote: > > As you seem to have pulseaudio (at least partially) installed Thanks, I think some of it was required for the apulse package in firefox. Not sure. > try to set the audio source to "pulse" in recordmydesktop. Though I have > no idea if that would actually work with apulse. (It does on my system > with pulseaudio fully installed, FWIW.) Thanks. Still no luck :/ I use virt-manager which seems to have a dep (god, why?) on libpulse-mainloop-glib0 and libpulse0 so can't uninstall those. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
On 01/31/2018 10:40 AM, Irrwahn wrote: > Too bad. Did you actually start it like "apulse recordmydesktop"? AIUI, Actually, thanks for the reminder - forgot that part. Still not sure where the issue lies. Tried 'apulse gtk-recordmydesktop' and 'apulse recordmydesktop' to no avail. Will play with the sound source some more but have tried "PCH" "DEFAULT" "default" "pulse" so far. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
On 01/31/2018 11:42 AM, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: > I am using SimpleScreenRecorder for my recordings and according to the > settings it should work with Alsa. Not tried because i have pulseaudio > in use for some app that will not work without it. If you wouldn't mind, how did you install that package? It seems the package is only available for Debian 9 (http://www.maartenbaert.be/simplescreenrecorder/) and I am on Devuan jessie yet. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
On 02/01/2018 09:25 AM, info at smallinnovations dot nl wrote: > You should install it from source, either git or the tar file on his > website. You could try to install it from the (ubuntu 14.04) ppa but i > have not tried that yet. The 14.04 PPA wanted libavcodec54 but Devuan is sporting libavcodec56 so unless I downgrade somehow, likely a no-go. Can't seem to build the source either. libavcodec-dev has some deps on: libavcodec-extra-56 : Conflicts: libavcodec56 but 10:2.6.5-dmo1 is installed. libavutil-dev : Depends: libavutil54 (= 6:11.11-1~deb8u1) but 10:2.6.5-dmo1 is installed. libavresample-dev : Depends: libavresample2 (= 6:11.11-1~deb8u1) but 10:2.6.5-dmo1 is installed. Apt wants to resolve it by removing palemoon, vlc and a bunch of other stuff that I'd rather not trash :/ I guess... I'll maybe find a Chrome plugin or something...I also read something about plugging the speakear output into the microphone jack to get recordmydesktop working with ALSA so maybe I'll see if I can find a cable. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
On 02/02/2018 09:37 AM, KatolaZ wrote: > What do you want to do exactly, and why you can't to that by using > only the Devuan repos corresponding to the relase you are using? Just wanted to capture videao AND sound (via ALSA) with gtk-recordmydesktop. Can't seem to get it working so thought I'd try building SSR from source, but the libs it wants are older than what I have installed... for starters. I seem to have a mish-mash of debian and devuan repos so likely the culprit. deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie main deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main deb http://us.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ jessie-updates main deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan jessie main deb [arch=amd64] http://dl.google.com/linux/chrome/deb/ stable main deb http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/stevenpusser/xUbuntu_14.04/ / deb ftp://ftp.vuurmuur.org/debian/ wheezy main deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/webupd8team/java/ubuntu trusty main ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
On 02/02/2018 09:42 AM, Irrwahn wrote: > please forgive me if may appear rude, but that looks like a terrible > Frankenmess! You'd probably be much better off updating your Devuan > Jessie to Devuan Ascii, Agreed. This box has been around since the Beta (valentines?) so likely it's time for an upgrade. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
On 02/02/2018 11:03 AM, Florian Zieboll wrote: > With pure ALSA (and bridged mic/speaker connectors), this works fine for > me: Thanks! Nice and simple. So, I *do* need to plug the speaker output into the mic to record with ALSA? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
On 02/02/2018 11:03 AM, Florian Zieboll wrote: > IIRC, ALSA allows to create a loopback device (kernel module), from > which digital audio can be grabbed directly. Disregard previous mail. Just read your second paragraph. THink I found it here: https://noisybox.net/blog/2016/01/alsa_recording_of_device_output ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Expired cert on talk.devuan.org?
Apologies if this is old news: talk.devuan.org uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate expired on January 31, 2018, 11:01 PM. The current time is February 2, 2018, 3:48 PM. Was trying to get here.. https://talk.devuan.org/t/upgrading-devuan-jessie-to-ascii/363 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
On 02/02/2018 02:53 PM, KatolaZ wrote: > This is not a mish-mash. This is basically a Debian jessie with > additional wheezy and Ubuntu repos... :) No surprise you have problems > with dependencies. Alrighty then... time to upgrade to Ascii. I'll see if I can find the howto. Thanks ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Minor Ascii upgrade fixes ? (was: Re: desktop screen recording with sound?)
On 02/02/2018 04:36 PM, KatolaZ wrote: > So I guess it must be possible to get a proper devuan jessie/ascii > from a MeDeBunVuan, without reinstalling. I think it went OK? I did run out of space in /var so I killed the upgrade, extended the FS and restarted it. Would be a nice catch for the upgrader though. Couple things that might be related to my MeDeBunVuan repo situation: * Anyone know why VLC crashes with some wayland problem (uh, wayland??): http://pasted.co/6b473044 * I'm running xfce-terminal on LXDE. Anyone know how to change the terminal color scheme? I thought xfce4-appearance-settings would do, but I have "dusk" selected and the terminal is still white: https://imgur.com/a/v8hHd * I need either a bigger monitor or a smaller mouse cursor for Thunderbird and Palemoon. Any way to change this? I thought lxappearance would do it under "Mouse Cursor" but there is nothing useful there: https://imgur.com/a/swi9T * whenever I get an IM in Pidgin, my volume goes to 100% when the notification sound is played. Uh.. anyone heard of this issue?: https://imgur.com/a/fNn7t I seem to have more pulse stuff installed than before: $ aptitude search pulse | grep ^i i apulse - PulseAudio emulation for ALSA i A gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio - GStreamer plugin for PulseAudio i libpulse-mainloop-glib0 - PulseAudio client libraries (glib support) i libpulse0 - PulseAudio client libraries i A libpulsedsp - PulseAudio OSS pre-load library i A pulseaudio - PulseAudio sound server i A pulseaudio-utils - Command line tools for the PulseAudio sound server i A xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin - Xfce4 panel plugin to control pulseaudio Thanks ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] desktop screen recording with sound?
On 02/04/2018 07:24 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: > Better disable whatever you have > in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/, to avoid issues. Then you update and > dist-upgrade as usual. I did just that and have it working OK. Thanks! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Minor Ascii upgrade fixes ?
On 02/06/2018 09:15 AM, Irrwahn wrote: > In xfce4-terminal: Right click --> Preferences --> Colors. Thanks, this is great for setting the terminal colors but I don't see a way to change the "window frame" color: https://imgur.com/a/bedWL Is this perhaps an Openbox setting? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] git - gnutls_handshake() failed
Hello all, Would someone on Ascii please try cloning this repo and reply? I'm getting a gnutls error and not sure where to look for the problem. Thanks $ git clone https://github.com/Eronarn/deploying-applications-with-ansible Cloning into 'deploying-applications-with-ansible'... fatal: unable to access 'https://github.com/Eronarn/deploying-applications-with-ansible/': gnutls_handshake() failed: Public key signature verification has failed. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] git - gnutls_handshake() failed
On 02/07/2018 01:52 PM, Hector Gonzalez wrote: > > Check if you have libgnutls-deb0-28 installed and remove it. Thanks, That appears to be the case: https://imgur.com/a/t477j ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Devuan infrastructure mirror
Hi! I'm interested in mirroring the Devuan build infrastructure in case my galaxy is disconnected from universe. Could you please keep in mind this option while building the infrastructure now. To my understanding the project source code and documentation (some knowledge base also) should be replicapable and it is a great thing you keep it in one place in Gitlab. Other infrustructure components could be deployed and configured in an automated way with some DevOps magic. #Serge ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] (forw) [GoLugTech] Microsoft buys GitHub
Personally I see this as a part of "embrace open source" strategy to kill open source. # Serge ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Linux system can be brought down by sending SIGILL to Systemd
Hi Martin, Perhaps Proxmox could ship running Devuan one day? *wink,nudge* ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] .NET Core and systemd
Seems like this would be a nice bridge for windows malware to infect linux. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] [OT] reboot did not work on Systemd based system
Had to reboot a Debian based system this weekend to apply kernel patches but it would not reboot. All commands (poweroff -p, reboot, init 6) would return with this error message or similar: Failed to start reboot.target: Transaction is destructive. See system logs and 'systemctl status reboot.target' for details. Systemctl produced no useful details whatsoever and only reiterated the command line error in more verbosity. The only recourse was to power cycle the system after a umount of the major filesystems. Thank you Devuan for providing a stable and re-bootable system. The bar continues to be lowered. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd breaking linuxcnc ...
I've got around 80 servers running Ubuntu 16.04 and 18.04. I noticed the time was yet again screwed up on them a few weeks ago. Not sure when it started happening but would guess it was the last systemd update on 12/2019. All hosts are all running timesyncd (after trying to get Chrony and NTP working). We ran regular old NTP for 8 years and system time was never a problem. After we upgraded our old 14.04 hosts last year, time syncing has been a major WTF/PITA. Luckily we don't run an NFS services so it's mainly log correlation that gets screwed up. After seeing this video, I'm like "aha, ok. Makes sense now". ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
