Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread Luciano Mannucci
On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 18:41:42 +0900
Olaf Meeuwissen  wrote:

> As g4sra said, /run/user/xxx is used by session management and as you
> say you have Xorg running on one of the machines, I guess someone is
> logged in and running an X session.  That would normally trigger
> creation of /run/user/xxx.
Well, not really.

I've completely removed Xorg, rebooted the machine, and still it does
the same: when I log in as user XXX via ssh I see a /run/usr/XXX on
that machine. I'm still investigating...

Thanks for your answer,

Luciano.
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Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread Pontus Goffe via Dng
Among running systems I can quickly search I can only find one box 
without /run/user and it has a custom monolithic kernel so perhaps this 
is kernel specific rather than packages.

//PG

Den 2021-08-31 kl. 13:40, skrev Luciano Mannucci:


I've completely removed Xorg, rebooted the machine, and still it does
the same: when I log in as user XXX via ssh I see a /run/usr/XXX on
that machine. I'm still investigating...


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Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread g4sra via Dng

On Tuesday, August 31st, 2021 at 1:11 PM, Pontus Goffe via Dng 
 wrote:
> Among running systems I can quickly search I can only find one box
> without /run/user and it has a custom monolithic kernel so perhaps this
> is kernel specific rather than packages.

Its not kernel specific.



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Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread wirelessduck--- via Dng


> On 31 Aug 2021, at 21:40, Luciano Mannucci  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 18:41:42 +0900
> Olaf Meeuwissen  wrote:
> 
>> As g4sra said, /run/user/xxx is used by session management and as you
>> say you have Xorg running on one of the machines, I guess someone is
>> logged in and running an X session.  That would normally trigger
>> creation of /run/user/xxx.
> Well, not really.
> 
> I've completely removed Xorg, rebooted the machine, and still it does
> the same: when I log in as user XXX via ssh I see a /run/usr/XXX on
> that machine. I'm still investigating...
> 
> Thanks for your answer,
> 
> Luciano.

Perhaps elogind or consolekit is creating this if you have either installed? 
They will manage the login sessions.
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Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread Ralph Ronnquist via Dng
On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:44:07 +
g4sra via Dng  wrote:

> On Tuesday, August 31st, 2021 at 1:11 PM, Pontus Goffe via Dng
>  wrote:
> > Among running systems I can quickly search I can only find one box
> > without /run/user and it has a custom monolithic kernel so perhaps
> > this is kernel specific rather than packages.  
> 
> Its not kernel specific.
> 

Try "man pam_elogind" .. about line 20 for me...

Ralph.


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Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread Luciano Mannucci
On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 23:31:30 +1000
wirelessduck--- via Dng  wrote:

> > I've completely removed Xorg, rebooted the machine, and still it does
> > the same: when I log in as user XXX via ssh I see a /run/usr/XXX on
> > that machine. I'm still investigating...
> > 
> 
> Perhaps elogind or consolekit is creating this if you have either installed? 
> They will manage the login sessions.
Well, I just removed consolekit (I haven't found the package elogind
in apt list --installed). I will reboot tonight to see whether it
changes something.

Thanks,

Luciano.
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Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread Luciano Mannucci
On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 23:34:13 +1000
Ralph Ronnquist via Dng  wrote:

> Try "man pam_elogind" .. about line 20 for me...
> 
> Ralph.
I get:

$man pam_elogind
No manual entry for pam_elogind

which means - I suppose - that elogind is not installed.

Thanks anyway,

Luciano.
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Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread g4sra via Dng
On Tuesday, August 31st, 2021 at 2:52 PM, Luciano Mannucci 
 wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2021 23:31:30 +1000
> wirelessduck--- via Dng dng@lists.dyne.org wrote:
> > > I've completely removed Xorg, rebooted the machine, and still it does
> > > the same: when I log in as user XXX via ssh I see a /run/usr/XXX on
> > > that machine. I'm still investigating...
> > 

> > Perhaps elogind or consolekit is creating this if you have either 
> > installed? They will manage the login sessions.
> Well, I just removed consolekit (I haven't found the package elogind
> in apt list --installed). I will reboot tonight to see whether it
> changes something.
> 

> Thanks,
> Luciano.

Hi Luciano,

Iterative change and reboot has it's place, but there are often better ways.

When you start removing packages without fully understanding their purpose and 
then rebooting you run the risk of severe breakage.
If this is your own personal machine that is fine, of course you get to keep 
all the pieces.
However when it is someone else's machine which is now broken into 
pieces...that is far less acceptable.

Don't give up, you are doing OK, but let me guide you a little in the right 
direction.

In relation to *nix, you may have heard the phrase "Do one thing and do it 
well", there is another, "Everything is a file".
This is less true than it used to be, but still worth remembering (no '/dev/lo' 
or '/dev/eth0').

A very useful utility for working with files (and the network) is 'lsof'.

sudo lsof +c0 +D /run/user/

Remember to 'man lsof' first to get an idea of what you will be looking at (or 
any other command someone on a mailing list or forum tells you to run).
Running this command with root permissions is important, you will get varying 
results otherwise.















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[DNG] Firefox, sudo and apulse (was Re: Steam, Mumble, Valheim, Alsa and shared audio)

2021-08-31 Thread hal

On 8/28/21 13:24, g4sra via Dng wrote:

Install 'apulse' which are a sort of pulseaudio compatability libraries.


apulse hasn't been working for me with Firefox for at least a year now. I don't 
know if I messed it up or if it was some software change, but it just stopped 
working once. Firefox doesn't seem to have FOSS in the focus so much anymore so 
always thought maybe they did something (again).

I just tried ff now running as my LXDE logged in user[1] and using sudo[2]. Both 
generated some apulse complaints I have to look into. my "default" dev is the 
onboard sound chip which might be in use with another application I have open.

Maybe I need to make "default" one of my dmix devices and not the "raw device", 
or I need to specify a playback rate in /etc/asound.conf like I've seen in some ALSA examples? hmm..

::: apulse errors :::
[apulse] [error] do_connect_pcm: can't get initial hw parameters for playback device 
"default". Error code 1 (Operation not permitted)

[apulse] [error] do_connect_pcm: failed to open ALSA device. Apulse does no resampling or format 
conversion, leaving that task to ALSA plugins. Ensure that selected device is capable of playing a 
particular sample format at a particular rate. They have to be supported by either hardware 
directly, or by "plug" and "dmix" ALSA plugins which will perform required 
conversions on CPU.


::: cards/devices :::
$ cat /proc/asound/cards
 0 [PCH]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
  HDA Intel PCH at 0xfbff8000 irq 37


::: snipped /etc/asound.conf :::
$ cat /etc/asound.conf
...
pcm.!default {
type plug
slave.pcm "duplex"
}
ctl.!default {
type hw
card 0
}




This may (and I do mean 'may') be your Desktop not releasing the audio devices, 
google that for your specific desktop to find out how to make it release them 
when you launch steam.




[1] $ /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox -ProfileManager
[2] $ sudo -u webuser /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox -ProfileManager
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Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread Olaf Meeuwissen
Hi Luciano,

Luciano Mannucci writes:

> On Mon, 30 Aug 2021 11:41:31 +
> g4sra via Dng  wrote:
>
>> Not necessarily anything wrong, other than the two machines are not 
>> identical.
> Well, the hardware is not the same.
> The software too, might not be at the same update level, so I just
> issued an apt-get update followed by an apt-get dist-upgrade.
> I cannot test the results because I cannot reboot the machines now.
>
>> /run/user/xxx is used by session management (and in some corner cases its 
>> absence can break dpkg scripts).
>>
>> You could list all the processes on both machines and then diff them.
>> Quick and dirty (and untested :)
>>
>> local_host# ps -e | awk '{print $4}' | sort | uniq >/tmp/catch0
>> local_host# ssh remote_machine 'ps -e'  | awk '{print $4}' | sort | uniq 
>> >/tmp/catch1
>> local_host# diff /tmp/catch0 /tmp/catch1
> Well, it gives me a lot of differences in kworker/something, and
> some difference in samba suite. And a big difference: one is
> running Xorg. I think I'll disable it and see if it makes a
> difference after next reboot...

As g4sra said, /run/user/xxx is used by session management and as you
say you have Xorg running on one of the machines, I guess someone is
logged in and running an X session.  That would normally trigger
creation of /run/user/xxx.

BTW, /run/user/xxx is a tmpfs filesystem, i.e. it only exists in
memory.  On my machine, I see

  olaf@quark:~$ mount | grep /run/user/
  none on /run/user/1000 type tmpfs (rw,relatime,mode=700,uid=1000)
  olaf@quark:~$ find /run/user/
  /run/user/
  /run/user/1000
  /run/user/1000/gnupg
  /run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent.ssh
  /run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent.browser
  /run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent.extra
  /run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent

which makes sense because `gpg-agent` is started as part of my Xfce4
session.

Hope this helps,
--
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Re: [DNG] Firefox, sudo and apulse (was Re: Steam, Mumble, Valheim, Alsa and shared audio)

2021-08-31 Thread Dr. Nikolaus Klepp
Anno domini 2021 Tue, 31 Aug 10:21:31 -0500
 hal scripsit:
> On 8/28/21 13:24, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> > Install 'apulse' which are a sort of pulseaudio compatability libraries.
> 
> apulse hasn't been working for me with Firefox for at least a year now. I 
> don't know if I messed it up or if it was some software change, but it just 
> stopped working once. Firefox doesn't seem to have FOSS in the focus so much 
> anymore so always thought maybe they did something (again).
> 
> I just tried ff now running as my LXDE logged in user[1] and using sudo[2]. 
> Both generated some apulse complaints I have to look into. my "default" dev 
> is the onboard sound chip which might be in use with another application I 
> have open.
> 
> Maybe I need to make "default" one of my dmix devices and not the "raw 
> device", or I need to specify a playback rate in /etc/asound.conf like I've 
> seen in some ALSA examples? hmm..
> 
> ::: apulse errors :::
> [apulse] [error] do_connect_pcm: can't get initial hw parameters for playback 
> device "default". Error code 1 (Operation not permitted)
> 
> [apulse] [error] do_connect_pcm: failed to open ALSA device. Apulse does no 
> resampling or format conversion, leaving that task to ALSA plugins. Ensure 
> that selected device is capable of playing a particular sample format at a 
> particular rate. They have to be supported by either hardware directly, or by 
> "plug" and "dmix" ALSA plugins which will perform required conversions on CPU.
> 
> 
> ::: cards/devices :::
> $ cat /proc/asound/cards
>   0 [PCH]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
>HDA Intel PCH at 0xfbff8000 irq 37
> 
> 
> ::: snipped /etc/asound.conf :::
> $ cat /etc/asound.conf
> ...
> pcm.!default {
>  type plug
>  slave.pcm "duplex"
> }
> ctl.!default {
>  type hw
>  card 0
> }

apulse works here like a charm. But my /etc/asound.conf is different (I use 
soundcard 2 aka index 1 as default):

defaults.pcm.card  1
defaults.ctl.card  1
defaults.timer.card  1


Nik



> 
> 
> 
> > This may (and I do mean 'may') be your Desktop not releasing the audio 
> > devices, google that for your specific desktop to find out how to make it 
> > release them when you launch steam.
> > 
> 
> 
> [1] $ /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox -ProfileManager
> [2] $ sudo -u webuser /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox 
> -ProfileManager
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Re: [DNG] Thank you, Devuan

2021-08-31 Thread hal



On 8/30/21 18:47, Joel Roth via Dng wrote:

So thank you Devuan team and community!


+1
As an end user (and Linux admin!), we don't say enough how much we appreciate 
your efforts. What has happened to the Linux ecosystem over the past few years 
has been simply dreadful. I'm not able to donate very much each month, but I do 
what I can afford. Hopefully it helps to pay bills and maybe the contributors 
can at least enjoy a pint/cup of their favorite beverage sometimes.

Thanks again!




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Re: [DNG] Firefox, sudo and apulse (was Re: Steam, Mumble, Valheim, Alsa and shared audio)

2021-08-31 Thread hal



On 8/31/21 10:46, Dr. Nikolaus Klepp wrote:



apulse works here like a charm. But my /etc/asound.conf is different (I use 
soundcard 2 aka index 1 as default):

defaults.pcm.card  1
defaults.ctl.card  1
defaults.timer.card  1


Ahh, ok. So something with my config. Thank you for the input!
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Re: [DNG] Firefox, sudo and apulse (was Re: Steam, Mumble, Valheim, Alsa and shared audio)

2021-08-31 Thread g4sra via Dng
On Tuesday, August 31st, 2021 at 4:21 PM, hal  wrote:
> On 8/28/21 13:24, g4sra via Dng wrote:
> > Install 'apulse' which are a sort of pulseaudio compatability libraries.
> apulse hasn't been working for me with Firefox for at least a year now. I 
> don't know if I messed it up or if it was some software change, but it just 
> stopped working once. Firefox doesn't seem to have FOSS in the focus so much 
> anymore so always thought maybe they did something (again).
> I just tried ff now running as my LXDE logged in user[1] and using sudo[2]. 
> Both generated some apulse complaints I have to look into. my "default" dev 
> is the onboard sound chip which might be in use with another application I 
> have open.
> Maybe I need to make "default" one of my dmix devices and not the "raw 
> device", or I need to specify a playback rate in /etc/asound.conf like I've 
> seen in some ALSA examples? hmm..
You are correct in that you definitely do not want a "raw device" as your 
default.

> ::: apulse errors :::
> [apulse] [error] do_connect_pcm: can't get initial hw parameters for playback 
> device "default". Error code 1 (Operation not permitted)
Permissions error, likely 'User' related.

> [apulse] [error] do_connect_pcm: failed to open ALSA device. Apulse does no 
> resampling or format conversion, leaving that task to ALSA plugins. Ensure 
> that selected device is capable of playing a particular sample format at a 
> particular rate. They have to be supported by either hardware directly, or by 
> "plug" and "dmix" ALSA plugins which will perform required conversions on CPU.
The selected device is not capable of handling the data format, so you need to 
change your "default" device configuration.

> ::: cards/devices :::
> $ cat /proc/asound/cards
> 0 [PCH ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH
> HDA Intel PCH at 0xfbff8000 irq 37
> 

> ::: snipped /etc/asound.conf :::
> $ cat /etc/asound.conf
> 

> ...
> pcm.!default {
> type plug
> slave.pcm "duplex"
> }
> 

> ctl.!default {
> type hw
> card 0
> }
Check to make sure you do not have a ~/.asoundrc overriding /etc/asound.conf

> > This may (and I do mean 'may') be your Desktop not releasing the audio 
> > devices, google that for your specific desktop to find out how to make it 
> > release them when you launch steam.

> [1] $ /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox -ProfileManager 

> [2] $ sudo -u webuser /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox 
> -ProfileManager
Switching 'User's in a GUI without re-logging is not always straightforward, 
session management can get in the way and conflict with the GUI.

In case you are unaware
To simplify the GUI side, use 'xauth'

get user_one's cookie:
user_one# xauth -n list localhost/unix:0
localhost/unix:0  MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1  83c12a394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g

then give the cookie to user_two:
user_two# xauth add localhost/unix:0  MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1  
83c12a394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g

now 'user_two' can access the GUI (you may need to set DISPLAY):
user_two# DISPLAY=:0 /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox -ProfileManager

I do this so frequently for 'root' that I have a two-line bash script I called 
'xsudo.sh'

#!/usr/bin/env bash
sudo bash -c "xauth add $(xauth -n list localhost/unix:0) && exec $@ &"




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Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread Bob Proulx via Dng
Luciano Mannucci wrote:
> I have two Beowulf systems that should be identical. If I issue "df"
> one does report among mounted filesystems a /run/user/xxx, where xxx
> is the id number of the user I am connected with (via ssh) and the
> other doesn't. As uname -a they both report:

I also don't desire that configuration and so also remove it from my
system.  But I automate this and have for so long that I have
forgotten the root of it.  But I believe this is due to the action of
PAM (Plugable Authentication Modules) which connect login session
accounts to libpam-systemd.  Or at least it did at one time.  IIRC.

Compare the contents of /etc/pamd.d on the two of your systems and see
what is different about them.  The one with /run/user will have PAM
modules that the one without does not have.  Pretty sure.  I think.

If it were me I would copy the /etc/pam.d of one system to the other
and then diff the two.

rsync -av othersystem:/etc/pam.d /tmp/junk/
diff -ru /tmp/junk/pam.d/ /etc/pam.d/

My old private notes from Stretch or around then say this following.
These are old notes and package names have mutated since then.

# File /etc/pam.d/common-session is modified by libpam-systemd
# postinst script to add the following line.
#   session  optionalpam_systemd.so
# See man pam_systemd(8) for more details.
# Note: pam_systemd.so creates /run/user/$(id -u) files.

Also my problem at the time was that X would not start with this PAM
configuration in place and I needed to remove it in order to get X to
start.  Because it needed all of the rest of systemd installed and of
course I didn't have it installed.  Therefore I needed to remove it.
But in Devuan elogind has replaced logind in order to address this.

I expect that your system with /run/user has a configuration like this
that your system that does not have /run/user does not have.

Caution: I am not really up to date on the current state of things
here.  I am just pretty sure that that the /run/user stuff is
configured through PAM and is set up through elogind/logind through
the /etc/pam.d/* interface somewhere.  I remove those entry lines from
pam.d files and it avoids that configuration.

Also starting X can be related and I have xserver-xorg-legacy
installed.  I would also cross-check whether it is installed and on
which ones of your two systems.

Bob


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Re: [DNG] Awkishness [Was: Re: Steam, Mumble, Valheim, Alsa and shared audio

2021-08-31 Thread hal


On 8/24/21 00:25, dva...@internode.on.net wrote:

   I hope that interests someone. It's not often that an opportunity
   to espouse the original text Swiss army knife presents itself.


It is, thanks for the awk info!

I first encountered awk on Solaris in the late 90s in a mixed environment of 
Linux, AIX and Solaris. I believe this is where the tic in my left eyelid comes 
from. Trying to keep scripts portable between those three systems tuned my 
shell-fu in ways which are not efficient. I'm afraid my bad habits are still 
there but I *will* take credit for getting out of the habit of piping cats :D

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Re: [DNG] Firefox, sudo and apulse (was Re: Steam, Mumble, Valheim, Alsa and shared audio)

2021-08-31 Thread hal



On 8/31/21 11:02, g4sra via Dng wrote:



ctl.!default {
type hw
card 0
}

Check to make sure you do not have a ~/.asoundrc overriding /etc/asound.conf


Good thought, and have checked this. Especially relevant with the multi-user 
situation. I will check on the other enlightening ALSA suggestions you have 
made.




get user_one's cookie:
user_one# xauth -n list localhost/unix:0
localhost/unix:0  MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1  83c12a394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g

then give the cookie to user_two:
user_two# xauth add localhost/unix:0  MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1  
83c12a394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g

now 'user_two' can access the GUI (you may need to set DISPLAY):
user_two# DISPLAY=:0 /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox -ProfileManager



Thank you for this! I have always used 'xhost +' and drop TCP 6000 (eth0) on the host 
firewall (on my "single-user" workstation anyway). I've tried to find more 
secure ways to share the X cookie but for one reason or another, they never worked out. I 
will try this!
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Re: [DNG] Firefox, sudo and apulse (was Re: Steam, Mumble, Valheim, Alsa and shared audio)

2021-08-31 Thread g4sra via Dng
On Tuesday, August 31st, 2021 at 7:41 PM, hal  wrote:
> On 8/31/21 11:02, g4sra via Dng wrote
> 
> 

> > > ctl.!default {
> > > 

> > > type hw
> > > 

> > > card 0
> > > 

> > > }
> > > 

> > > Check to make sure you do not have a ~/.asoundrc overriding 
> > > /etc/asound.conf
> 

> Good thought, and have checked this. Especially relevant with the multi-user 
> situation. I will check on the other enlightening ALSA suggestions you have 
> made.
> 

> 
> 

> > get user_one's cookie:
> > user_one# xauth -n list localhost/unix:0
> > localhost/unix:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 83c12a394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g
> > 

> > then give the cookie to user_two:
> > user_two# xauth add localhost/unix:0 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 
> > 83c12a394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g
> > 

> > now 'user_two' can access the GUI (you may need to set DISPLAY):
> > user_two# DISPLAY=:0 /usr/bin/apulse /home/apps/firefox/firefox 
> > -ProfileManager
> 

> Thank you for this! I have always used 'xhost +' and drop TCP 6000 (eth0) on 
> the host firewall (on my "single-user" workstation anyway). I've tried to 
> find more secure ways to share the X cookie but for one reason or another, 
> they never worked out. I will try this!

To work remotely you use the FQDN appended with the DISPLAY number (as opposed 
to localhost/unix:0) to get the TCP connection cookie.
user_one# xauth -n list host.example.com:0
10.0.0.1 MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 92b21b394ac0c5afe1fee0a973b9e49g

This will only work if Xorg is listening for non-local TCP connections though, 
which is NOT the default.
I almost always use XForward'ing over ssh.






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Description: application/pgp-keys


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Re: [DNG] /run/user/#

2021-08-31 Thread aitor

Hi,

On 31/8/21 19:43, Bob Proulx via Dng wrote:

Caution: I am not really up to date on the current state of things
here.  I am just pretty sure that that the /run/user stuff is
configured through PAM and is set up through elogind/logind through
the/etc/pam.d/* interface somewhere.


|For sure. In debia this tmpfs is created by libpam-systemd, where the 
environment variable:|


|XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/|

|is involved.
|


I remove those entry lines from pam.d files and it avoids that configuration.
Setting a different value for this variable might be enough, or leaving 
it empty? I'm in gnuinos right now;
so, I haven't elogind nor consolekit. And the value of XDG_RUNTIME_DIR 
is emptyin my system. Hence,
/run/user doesn't exist. Note: $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR is not set if the 
current user is not the original user of the session.


Hope this helps,

Aitor.


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