Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Thu, 2021-07-29 at 18:07 -0400, . via Dng wrote: > On 7/29/21 6:00 AM, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote: > > American != English > > > > Rowland > > Also, > > British != English > > Canadian != English > > Indian != English > > Australian != English > > Ugandan != English > > > Chaucer == English No, Chaucer == Old English There is no one in England that speaks Old English in normal life You are quite right though, the only real English is from England, the rest are derivatives. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate
> On 7/28/21 1:12 PM, Steve Litt wrote: >> [ Beverity ] >> Does anyone have other list items to add? https://thedailywtf.com/ Is a good resource of what “not” to do.___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Rant: was fresh install of chimaera on an Ultrabook - no touchpad
> On 30 Jul 2021, at 05:15, Steve Litt wrote: > > Riccardo Mottola said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 16:07:11 +0200 > >> Sometimes you can find another card, but that is not always possible. >> Rarely you can know exactly what is inside a Laptop on beforehand. > > Riccardo, > > You just reminded me that I always recommend having a known good, > doesn't-need-drivers wifi dongle on hand for those times when your > laptop's wifi won't work during installation. Some are made for the > Raspberry Pi: I'd guess that those would work on pretty much any > hardware. > > SteveT The FSF publishes a list of Linux-compatible hardware at https://ryf.fsf.org___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 11:56 +0200, Harald Arnesen wrote: > Rowland Penny via Dng [30.07.2021 09:39]: > > > No, Chaucer == Old English > > There is no one in England that speaks Old English in normal life > > > > You are quite right though, the only real English is from England, > > the > > rest are derivatives. > > "Real English" have a multitude of variants - Cockney, Yorkshire > Dales, > Cornwall,... - or do you mean "The Queen's English"? They are all dialects, not variants and Cornwall has its own Celtic language. Cockney is a 'slang' language (apples and pears: stairs) I will not comment on yorkshire, but it is similar to the 'lanky' dialect I can speak, but do not normally use. The Queen's English is also known as 'received pronunciation' and is only used by the BBC and those idiots in the south of England. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 11:59 +0200, John Hughes wrote: > On 30/07/2021 09:39, Rowland Penny via Dng wrote: > > No, Chaucer == Old English > > There is no one in England that speaks Old English in normal life > > > > You are quite right though, the only real English is from England, > > the > > rest are derivatives. > > > Really? Where in England? > > What does this phrase mean: > > Wait while lights flash. > > In most of the country it means "wait here if the lights are > flashing". > In Yorkshire (England) it can mean "wait here until the lights > flash". Well yes, but then people from yorkshire can be a bit retarded :-D > > Are these English: > > "Is Jimmy laking out today?" No, Jimmy cannot play today > > "Tha thee-tha's them that thee-tha's thee". > > ? Sithee lad, that's a lot of 'the' Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Missing syslog: SOLVED
Hi Hendrik, Hendrik Boom wrote (among other things): > On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 06:49:22PM +0900, Olaf Meeuwissen wrote: >> Hi Hendrik, >> >> Silly question perhaps, but do you have a system-log-daemon installed? >> >> dpkg-query -W | grep syslog >> >> should tell you. The most likely one to be installed in rsyslog, IIRC. > > Look like I don't! > > april:~# dpkg-query -W | grep syslog > libparse-syslog-perl1.10-2 > april:~# > > Guess it's time to install rsyslog. > >> If you have, is it started at boot time *and* has it been configured to >> actually log anything? For rsyslog, in the default setup, the answer is >> yes for both of these questions. > > And installing it as a package should give me that default set-up. Indeed, it should. >> >> > And in all that time I hadn't noticed. >> >> > >> >> > It is still running ascii, by the way. I'm pretty sure ascii wasn't >> >> > around yet in 2013, back when I was still running Debian. >> >> That seems to imply you migrated from Debian to Devuan. >> When you migrated, was there anything that might have prevented your >> system from keeping a daemon that processes log messages? >> >> >> > So why no system log? >> >> Maybe your Debian setup only had systemd installed, no rsyslog, and >> when you migrated, no system-log-daemon was found to be needed? > > I did not have systemd installed. I migrated in the time of Jessie, > before systemd became hard to avoid. > I'm not sure, but I think I even migrated by upgrading from the > previous Debian release directy to Devuan Jessie. >> >> > And, while I'm asking anyway, why no /var/log/mail* since 2013 either? > >> Does you system have a running SMTP daemon that gets to process any >> mail? > > Yes. Postfix. It's the one that accepted your message just now. Postfix, by default, logs to the system logger which, for a default rsyslog setup, will write log message there. >> Has it been configured to log anything? Does your syslogger >> spit those log messages into /var/log/mail*? > > Since the mail log stopped at the same time as the syslog, maybe it > also needs syslog. > > I just installed rsyslog, and I'm getting syslog entries again. Good! > Do I also need the other related packages like rsyslog-czmq, > rsyslog-elasticsearch, rsyslog-gnutls, rsyslog-gssapi, rsyslog-hiredis, > rsyslog-kafka, rsyslog-mongodb, rsyslog-mysql, rsyslog-pgsql, and > rsyslog-relp? As Ludovic already mentioned, only if you want rsyslog to log some sort of database. If you are happy with logging to files, just rsyslog will suffice. > And the mail log is geting entries as well. And a lot of other logs. Many daemons, but not all, and many tools, but again not all, send their log messages via syslog(), so rsyslog (or some other syslogger) gets to deal with them. > Some logs don't seem to need the logging demon: > alternatives > aptitude > dpkg > mediatomb > messages > pm-powersave > popularity-contest These are written to directly by the corresponding software. These message do not go through rsyslog. However, some may also be sent to rsyslog and end up in the files below (as duplicates). > and some did: > auth > daemon > debug > dmesg > kern.log > mail.log > messages > syslog These are written to by rsyslog in the default setup. Any software that sents it log messages via syslog() may end up logging there dependent on the rsyslog configuration. > Thank you. Glad you found the cause of your problem! -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Rant: was fresh install of chimaera on an Ultrabook - no touchpad
Hi Tito, list, tito via Dng writes: > On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 17:16:31 + > g4sra via Dng wrote: > > [...snip...] >> >> > What am I missing? >> >> All the 'other' Drivers that people are complaining are NOT in the >> netinstall ISO's. >> I don't understand the point you are making in adding up the Drivers that >> *are* included. > > Hi, > I'm just saying that I wonder why being not that big in size they were not > included > and in fact as you confirm they are included. > The ones you list here are all firmware blob packages so now the question > arises > which are the DRIVER packages that should have been included and are not? > By inspecting the repos (not the isos) with the synaptic package manager > I was not able to spot the GBs of packages you mentioned, > probably this is my fault and I just look in the wrong places. For one thing, you are forgetting all the third-party drivers that aren't in the Debian package repositories to begin with. I bought a USB WiFi dongle that (quietly) advertised Linux support and needed to add the vendor package repository for its out-of-tree driver. Had to fiddle a little bit to work around Debian<->Devuan issues but it compiles and works fine otherwise. IIRC, there is even a GitHub repository for the sources but I haven't checked if it contains any blobs. The dongle's at the office and I don't remember the vendor/device name. Sorry. Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Rant: was fresh install of chimaera on an Ultrabook - no touchpad
Hi g4sra, g4sra via Dng writes: > <--snip--> > This is why Devuan's installer will ask\prompt you to insert additional > installation media such as a USB stick. > There are just too many Gigabytes of Drivers required to satisfy every corner > case, put the drivers your quirky hardware requires on a USB stick and use it > when prompted! > I do not ever want to have to install an OS from 31 removable media's ever > again! (Windows NT anybody?).___ Me waxes nostalgic and remembers installing Debian from 12 floppies ;-) -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Rant: was fresh install of chimaera on an Ultrabook - no touchpad
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:05:18 +0900 Olaf Meeuwissen wrote: > Hi Tito, list, > > tito via Dng writes: > > > On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 17:16:31 + > > g4sra via Dng wrote: > > > > [...snip...] > >> > >> > What am I missing? > >> > >> All the 'other' Drivers that people are complaining are NOT in the > >> netinstall ISO's. > >> I don't understand the point you are making in adding up the Drivers that > >> *are* included. > > > > Hi, > > I'm just saying that I wonder why being not that big in size they were not > > included > > and in fact as you confirm they are included. > > The ones you list here are all firmware blob packages so now the question > > arises > > which are the DRIVER packages that should have been included and are not? > > By inspecting the repos (not the isos) with the synaptic package manager > > I was not able to spot the GBs of packages you mentioned, > > probably this is my fault and I just look in the wrong places. > > For one thing, you are forgetting all the third-party drivers that > aren't in the Debian package repositories to begin with. Hi, I don't think devuan or debian will ever ship them as they will never be packaged so they don't count. If I understood it correctly the problem is about adding the drivers and firmware blobs which are in the non-free repos to the isos and install images and in my opinion for a given arch (i386, am64, etc) they do not sum up to GBs of software and could easily be added to to the bigger images/isos for a best possible user experience (at least for video cards, ethernet cards and wifi cards/dongles). By not doing it potential users are driven away from devuan (and linux) at the beginning of they new linux life of freedom and consciousness. Ciao, Tito > I bought a USB WiFi dongle that (quietly) advertised Linux support and > needed to add the vendor package repository for its out-of-tree driver. > Had to fiddle a little bit to work around Debian<->Devuan issues but it > compiles and works fine otherwise. > > IIRC, there is even a GitHub repository for the sources but I haven't > checked if it contains any blobs. > > The dongle's at the office and I don't remember the vendor/device name. > Sorry. > > Hope this helps, > -- > Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 > GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 > Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate > Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Rant: was fresh install of chimaera on an Ultrabook - no touchpad
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:07:43 +0900 Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: > Hi g4sra, > > g4sra via Dng writes: > > > <--snip--> > > This is why Devuan's installer will ask\prompt you to insert > > additional installation media such as a USB stick. There are just > > too many Gigabytes of Drivers required to satisfy every corner > > case, put the drivers your quirky hardware requires on a USB stick > > and use it when prompted! I do not ever want to have to install an > > OS from 31 removable media's ever again! (Windows NT > > anybody?).___ I've done that once, but mostly it has been various versions of Novell which thankfully are not that many as NT was. > > Me waxes nostalgic and remembers installing Debian from 12 > floppies ;-) -- Did it work? My installation didn't, so I then tried the Slackware floppies which also didn't work. Then the Redhat floppies, which did work, which is why my first working distro was Redhat for a few versions. Weirdly I actually has a Suse CD beforehand*, but it was in German and my German language knowledge was effectively nil. *It was sent to the LUG, but no one else wanted it. Aaah, those were the days. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
Le 29/07/2021 à 20:10, Andreas Messer a écrit : > On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 03:58:02PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: >> With all respect due to your work, I tend to think that with such >> expensive and dangerous machines, more investment should be put into >> hardware so as to get controllers with a decent ram. And maybe the >> firmware could take safety action when software crashes. > Sure, but I'm not the boss :-) Your boss is the ultimate responsible person in case of human hazard, at the condition s?he is properly educated, and it might be your responsibility to educate her/him. > >> Similarly, more investment should be put in software so as to make a >> review of available languages suited for mssion-critical applications >> and invest in learning the chosen language. C and C++ are so error-prone >> that they are really not suited. > Well, you can implement bugs in any kind of language. To be honest, > crashes are the most easy ones to find. I know there are other languages > outside but here applies the same as above: I'm not the one to decide. Not all language are equal. Some really discourage bad programming, meaning it takes a big effort to actually program badly/unsafely, while it is still possible. Others open traps under your feet everywhere. > > I can just give hints and try to push in some direction. But embedded > software development is still driven by myths like "C is faster than C++" > and its hard overcome these. Maybe a generation thing. Myths actually. The advantage of C and C++ is to be easily portable to every paltform since the compiler and runtime are always available by default. But, when you develop a private application, you can invest in building the necessary environment. > > My personal way to push through this is to run as much (automated) > firmware tests in our hardware-in-the-loop test system as possible. And to > have a testcase for every single requirement, situation, sequence or ever > seen bug in the software. We end up to have 20-30 testruns a day > distributed among different test setups, SoC cpu generations, operating > systems. The only missing thing is kind of developer slap robot to punish > the developer who made the bad commit automatically :-) > Not sure that works (~: Would make the programmers nervous. Stress-based human management causes bad surprises. -- Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate
g4sra via Dng said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:16:31 + >If I correctly interpret spiralofhope's meaning > >Regard the document itself as if it was pseudocode. >Apply the rules of the document to the document e.g. > >1) keep the document as short as possible >... >3) all of a paragraph must fit on the screen >... >9) the document must be readable to others like a children's book O! Makes perfect sense now. Thanks g4sra and spiralofhope. That's a good idea, although one screenfull sounds a little too short for prose, to me. But that's just a spectrum judgment call type of thing. I have to think about that. It could revolutionize documentation. Let me give that some thought. Thanks! SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate
Josef Grosch via Dng said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 15:32:05 -0700
>Another suggestion I have is to use the variable and method naming
>convention that java uses. I like the way it looks and I think camel
>case is more readable than snake case.
This reminds me of something not yet in the outline. The originating
author should place, in comments, near the top, his or her syntax
conventions including naming conventions, brace placements if not
Python, spaces or tabs.
I'm hidiously guilty of using violating my own conventions (or not
having any), so I should make that document at the start of a project.
Matter of fact, I should make it BEFORE my next project. Naturally, one
such stylesheet must be made for Python, another for C, etc.
In an ideal world, here's how I'd do C blocks:
if(mybool)
{
do_my_stuff()
}
However, I do it the way Vim preformats for me, to make my life easier:
if(mybool){
do_my_stuff()
}
#ifndef AUTHOR
char * AUTHOR = "SteveT"
#endif
AUTHOR
Steve Litt
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate
Josef Grosch via Dng said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 15:55:03 -0700
>On 7/28/21 1:12 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>> [ Beverity ]
>> Does anyone have other list items to add?
>>
>
>Now that you got me thinking;
>
>One should be explicit instead of implicit. I see this in code all the
>time and it drives me crazy
>
>
>// NO
>
>if (condition)
>
> doSomething();
>
>
>// YES
>
>if (condition) {
>
> doSomething();
>
>}
The preceding is reasonable. But sometimes, readability is best served
with:
if (condition) doSomething();
I think the preceding should be allowed, when it makes things clearer.
if (no_record_found) show_error_and_exit("No record found", 1);
SteveT
Steve Litt
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
Hendrik Boom said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:10:24 -0400 >On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 04:57:44PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: >> al3xu5 said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 17:33:10 +0200 >> > >> >11) Document and document and document all the code (vars, >> >functions, errors etc. ... all) >> >> I do that: Nobody else does. It really makes things difficult when I >> need to work on or with somebody's code. > >I ofter predocument -- explain what my code is intended to do before I > write it. > >This is a planning document. Nice SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
Hendrik Boom said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:31:26 -0400 >And it's kind of amazing how these different versions have grammatical >differences, not kust spelling and vocabulary. > >Unfortunately, it's currently not accessible, so I can't give you any >examples. London: He's in hospital. Chicago: He's in the hospital. I'm from America, so when I hear a noun used without an article, it's like fingernails on a blackboard (or for those too young to know what a blackboard is, nasty screeching out of a malfunctioning sound card). SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 13:57 -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > Hendrik Boom said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:31:26 -0400 > > > > And it's kind of amazing how these different versions have > > grammatical > > differences, not kust spelling and vocabulary. > > > > Unfortunately, it's currently not accessible, so I can't give you > > any > > examples. > > London: He's in hospital. > > Chicago: He's in the hospital. > > I'm from America, so when I hear a noun used without an article, it's > like fingernails on a blackboard (or for those too young to know what > a > blackboard is, nasty screeching out of a malfunctioning sound card). > This is sort of what I was getting at, English is a language that changes over time, unfortunately not all English speaking nations keep up, for instance, this is the correct English way to spell 'colour', it certainly isn't 'color'. We also have a habit of having letters in words that we do not pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-) Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 13:40:30 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > g4sra via Dng said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:16:31 + > > > [...] > > O! > > Makes perfect sense now. Thanks g4sra and spiralofhope. That's a good > idea, although one screenfull sounds a little too short for prose, to > me. But that's just a spectrum judgment call type of thing. > > I have to think about that. It could revolutionize documentation. Let > me give that some thought. I also mean that if there are any complex ideas or words, those can be explained in separate specific-documentation in the same way that code does it. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate
spiralofhope said on Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:28:27 -0700 >On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 13:40:30 -0400 >Steve Litt wrote: > >> g4sra via Dng said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:16:31 + >> >> >> [...] >> >> O! >> >> Makes perfect sense now. Thanks g4sra and spiralofhope. That's a good >> idea, although one screenfull sounds a little too short for prose, to >> me. But that's just a spectrum judgment call type of thing. >> >> I have to think about that. It could revolutionize documentation. Let >> me give that some thought. > >I also mean that if there are any complex ideas or words, those can be >explained in separate specific-documentation in the same way that code >does it. Nice!! SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [Golugtech] We need a meeting topic for August
Steve Litt said on Thu, 22 Jul 2021 13:48:44 -0400 >Hi all, > >We need a meeting topic for August 4, 2021, 7pm Eastern time. Who can >give a presentation on a free software topic? I will be presenting at August 4, 2021 GoLUG meeting. The presentation will be a set of software rules of the road, some having to do with security, some having to do with efficient, readable and modifiable code. I didn't pull this out of a hat. Some of the smartest people at the DNG Devuan User mail list all got their heads together and proposed these things, on the road to a guide to safe and high quality software, in any language. This isn't exclusive to either Devuan or Debian, it consists of generic rules of the road for all programming in all languages. I'm copying the DNG list because the info came from there. Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 1:13 PM Rowland Penny via Dng wrote: > On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 13:57 -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > Hendrik Boom said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:31:26 -0400> > > > > > > > And it's kind of amazing how these different versions have > > > grammatical > > > differences, not kust spelling and vocabulary. > > > > > > Unfortunately, it's currently not accessible, so I can't give you > > > any > > > examples. > > > > London: He's in hospital. > > > > Chicago: He's in the hospital. > > > > I'm from America, so when I hear a noun used without an article, it's > > like fingernails on a blackboard (or for those too young to know what > > a > > blackboard is, nasty screeching out of a malfunctioning sound card). > > > > This is sort of what I was getting at, English is a language that > changes over time, unfortunately not all English speaking nations keep > up, for instance, this is the correct English way to spell 'colour', it > certainly isn't 'color'. We also have a habit of having letters in > words that we do not pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-) > > Even more challenging imo - - - - a letter group that has 8 different pronunciations - - - don't believe me (rough, slough, slough, though, cough, bough, ough, through) - - - - there are even more (!) how's that for totally asinine! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 13:55 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 1:13 PM Rowland Penny via Dng < > dng@lists.dyne.org> wrote: > > On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 13:57 -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > Hendrik Boom said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:31:26 -0400> > > > > > > > > > > And it's kind of amazing how these different versions have > > > > grammatical > > > > differences, not kust spelling and vocabulary. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, it's currently not accessible, so I can't give > > you > > > > any > > > > examples. > > > > > > London: He's in hospital. > > > > > > Chicago: He's in the hospital. > > > > > > I'm from America, so when I hear a noun used without an article, > > it's > > > like fingernails on a blackboard (or for those too young to know > > what > > > a > > > blackboard is, nasty screeching out of a malfunctioning sound > > card). > > > > > > > This is sort of what I was getting at, English is a language that > > changes over time, unfortunately not all English speaking nations > > keep > > up, for instance, this is the correct English way to spell > > 'colour', it > > certainly isn't 'color'. We also have a habit of having letters in > > words that we do not pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-) > > > > Even more challenging imo - - - - a letter group that has 8 different > pronunciations > - - - don't believe me (rough, slough, slough, though, cough, bough, > ough, > through) - - - - there are even more (!) how's that for > totally asinine! No, that's just English, at least we don't describe things as male or female as some of the European languages do. Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Marker
This serves as a marker. I'll explain later. SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 07:13:43PM +0100, Rowland Penny via Dng wrote: > On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 13:57 -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > Hendrik Boom said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:31:26 -0400 > > > > > > > And it's kind of amazing how these different versions have > > > grammatical > > > differences, not kust spelling and vocabulary. > > > > > > Unfortunately, it's currently not accessible, so I can't give you > > > any > > > examples. > > > > London: He's in hospital. > > > > Chicago: He's in the hospital. > > > > I'm from America, so when I hear a noun used without an article, it's > > like fingernails on a blackboard (or for those too young to know what > > a > > blackboard is, nasty screeching out of a malfunctioning sound card). > > > > This is sort of what I was getting at, English is a language that > changes over time, unfortunately not all English speaking nations keep > up, for instance, this is the correct English way to spell 'colour', it > certainly isn't 'color'. We also have a habit of having letters in > words that we do not pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-) But it's *fun* pronouncing both the p and the t. -- hendrik > > Rowland > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Rant: was fresh install of chimaera on an Ultrabook - no touchpad
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 08:02:59PM +1000, wirelessduck--- via Dng wrote: > > > > On 30 Jul 2021, at 05:15, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > Riccardo Mottola said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 16:07:11 +0200 > > > >> Sometimes you can find another card, but that is not always possible. > >> Rarely you can know exactly what is inside a Laptop on beforehand. > > > > Riccardo, > > > > You just reminded me that I always recommend having a known good, > > doesn't-need-drivers wifi dongle on hand for those times when your > > laptop's wifi won't work during installation. Some are made for the > > Raspberry Pi: I'd guess that those would work on pretty much any > > hardware. > > > > SteveT > > The FSF publishes a list of Linux-compatible hardware at https://ryf.fsf.org Probably only hardware for which the Linux drivers are free. -- hendrik > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:04:28, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 07:13:43PM +0100, Rowland Penny via Dng wrote: > > > This is sort of what I was getting at, English is a language that > > changes over time, unfortunately not all English speaking nations keep > > up, for instance, this is the correct English way to spell 'colour', it > > certainly isn't 'color'. We also have a habit of having letters in > > words that we do not pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-) > > But it's *fun* pronouncing both the p and the t. Who in their right mind would pronounce the 't' in that :) ? German pronounces all the letters in a word, in as consistent a way as possible. French pronounces as few of the letters in a word as it can get away with. English pronounces most, but not all, of the letters in a word, in as many different ways as possible. An example (there are others): https://iuuk.mff.cuni.cz/~andrew/EAP/PronunciationPoem.pdf Antony. -- I still maintain the point that designing a monolithic kernel in 1991 is a fundamental error. Be thankful you are not my student. You would not get a high grade for such a design :-) - Andrew Tanenbaum to Linus Torvalds Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 22:18 +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:04:28, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 07:13:43PM +0100, Rowland Penny via Dng > > wrote: > > > > > This is sort of what I was getting at, English is a language that > > > changes over time, unfortunately not all English speaking nations > > > keep > > > up, for instance, this is the correct English way to spell > > > 'colour', it > > > certainly isn't 'color'. We also have a habit of having letters > > > in > > > words that we do not pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-) > > > > But it's *fun* pronouncing both the p and the t. > > Who in their right mind would pronounce the 't' in that :) ? Just about everyone in England, it is the 'p' that you do not pronounce. Unless you are actually referring to the 'that' on the end of your sentence, in which case 'ha' :-D > > > German pronounces all the letters in a word, in as consistent a way > as > possible. They would. > > French pronounces as few of the letters in a word as it can get away > with. Terrible language, we stole the best parts of their language. > > English pronounces most, but not all, of the letters in a word, in as > many > different ways as possible. How about the name 'Cholmondeley ' which is pronounced 'Chumley' Rowland ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:30:34, Rowland Penny via Dng wrote: > On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 22:18 +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > > On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:04:28, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 07:13:43PM +0100, Rowland Penny wrote: > > > > We also have a habit of having letters in words that we do not > > > > pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-) > > > > > > But it's *fun* pronouncing both the p and the t. > > > > Who in their right mind would pronounce the 't' in that :) ? > > Just about everyone in England, it is the 'p' that you do not > pronounce. Unless you are actually referring to the 'that' on the end > of your sentence, in which case 'ha' :-D I suspect I under-emphasised the smiley in my sentence :( > > German pronounces all the letters in a word, in as consistent a way > > as possible. > > They would. At least it's easy to learn how to say German words, and how to know which word a German has just said. > > French pronounces as few of the letters in a word as it can get away > > with. > > Terrible language, we stole the best parts of their language. Yes, mostly from the original Latin... > > English pronounces most, but not all, of the letters in a word, in as > > many different ways as possible. > > How about the name 'Cholmondeley ' which is pronounced 'Chumley' Agreed. St. John = Sinjun Featherstonehaugh = Fanshaw Gloucester = Gloster Worcester = Wooster Antony. -- The words "e pluribus unum" on the Great Seal of the United States are from a poem by Virgil entitled "Moretum", which is about cheese and garlic salad dressing. Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Rant: was fresh install of chimaera on an Ultrabook - no touchpad
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 11:22:56PM +1000, terryc wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 21:07:43 +0900 > Olaf Meeuwissen via Dng wrote: > > > Hi g4sra, > > > > g4sra via Dng writes: > > > > > <--snip--> > > > This is why Devuan's installer will ask\prompt you to insert > > > additional installation media such as a USB stick. There are just > > > too many Gigabytes of Drivers required to satisfy every corner > > > case, put the drivers your quirky hardware requires on a USB stick > > > and use it when prompted! I do not ever want to have to install an > > > OS from 31 removable media's ever again! (Windows NT > > > anybody?).___ > > I've done that once, but mostly it has been various versions of Novell > which thankfully are not that many as NT was. > > > > > Me waxes nostalgic and remembers installing Debian from 12 > > floppies ;-) -- > > Did it work? > > My installation didn't, so I then tried the Slackware floppies which > also didn't work. By the time I switched to Debian (.9x release), the ATA cdroms were working with the kernel without modification. Before that, I would drive to Pullman, WA, where a friend was going to school, with a large pack of 3.5" floppies and a blank CD, since it would take too long at 2400 baud to download from where I lived. I would spend the weekend there, downloading the install set of Slackware with enough packages to be able to rebuild the kernel, and put the rest of the packages I needed onto the CD. I would bring the whole mess back home, get the base system up, modify the source of the kernel to recognize my CDROM drive, and then build the kernel, so I could finish setting it up on my shiny new 386DX. Friends would be angry with me, since I would do all this with a 12pack of beer, and not remember how I did it the next day. (The installation was done drunk, not the rest of it...) > Aaah, those were the days. Indeed... signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:50:22, Antony Stone wrote: > On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:30:34, Rowland Penny via Dng wrote: > > On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 22:18 +0200, Antony Stone wrote: > > > On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:04:28, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 07:13:43PM +0100, Rowland Penny wrote: > > > > > We also have a habit of having letters in words that we do not > > > > > pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-) > > > > > > > > But it's *fun* pronouncing both the p and the t. > > > > > > Who in their right mind would pronounce the 't' in that :) ? > > > > Just about everyone in England, it is the 'p' that you do not > > pronounce. Unless you are actually referring to the 'that' on the end > > of your sentence, in which case 'ha' :-D > > I suspect I under-emphasised the smiley in my sentence :( > > > > German pronounces all the letters in a word, in as consistent a way > > > as possible. > > > > They would. > > At least it's easy to learn how to say German words, and how to know which > word a German has just said. > > > > French pronounces as few of the letters in a word as it can get away > > > with. > > > > Terrible language, we stole the best parts of their language. > > Yes, mostly from the original Latin... > > > > English pronounces most, but not all, of the letters in a word, in as > > > many different ways as possible. > > > > How about the name 'Cholmondeley ' which is pronounced 'Chumley' > > Agreed. > > St. John = Sinjun > Featherstonehaugh = Fanshaw > Gloucester = Gloster > Worcester = Wooster Oops, I forgot: Southwark = Suthark Mousehole = Mousal Southwell = Suthell Leicester = Lester Cockburn = Coburn Magdelen (college) = Mawdlin etc... I also caused some confusion when asking for directions to "Schenectady" in New York State, USA, some years ago. Antony. -- Behind the counter a boy with a shaven head stared vacantly into space, a dozen spikes of microsoft protruding from the socket behind his ear. - William Gibson, Neuromancer (1984) Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
Sorry in advance, it was too hard to resist the following "correction." I'm from the America, so when I hear noun used without article, it's like fingernails on blackboard (or for those too young to know what blackboard is, nasty screeching out of malfunctioning sound card). Steve Litt wrote: > Hendrik Boom said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:31:26 -0400 > > >> And it's kind of amazing how these different versions have grammatical >> differences, not kust spelling and vocabulary. >> >> Unfortunately, it's currently not accessible, so I can't give you any >> examples. > London: He's in hospital. > > Chicago: He's in the hospital. > > I'm from America, so when I hear a noun used without an article, it's > like fingernails on a blackboard (or for those too young to know what a > blackboard is, nasty screeching out of a malfunctioning sound card). > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful > Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Rant: was fresh install of chimaera on an Ultrabook - no touchpad
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 14:31:17 +0200 tito via Dng wrote: > ... If I understood it correctly the > problem is about adding the drivers and firmware blobs which are in > the non-free repos to the isos and install images ... Let me repeat it once: the installer isos do contain all packages named *firmware* in their respective pool, and in addition, they have a toplevel directory named /firmware that contains symbolic links to all of them. It has been like that since the ASCII installer isos. ... go on ranting. Ralph. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
Antony Stone said on Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:14:36 +0200 >On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:50:22, Antony Stone wrote: > >> On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:30:34, Rowland Penny via Dng wrote: >> > On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 22:18 +0200, Antony Stone wrote: >> > > On Friday 30 July 2021 at 22:04:28, Hendrik Boom wrote: >> > > > On Fri, Jul 30, 2021 at 07:13:43PM +0100, Rowland Penny wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > We also have a habit of having letters in words that we do >> > > > > not pronounce, 'pterosaur' for instance :-) >> > > > >> > > > But it's *fun* pronouncing both the p and the t. >> > > >> > > Who in their right mind would pronounce the 't' in that :) ? >> > >> > Just about everyone in England, it is the 'p' that you do not >> > pronounce. Unless you are actually referring to the 'that' on the >> > end of your sentence, in which case 'ha' :-D >> >> I suspect I under-emphasised the smiley in my sentence :( >> >> > > German pronounces all the letters in a word, in as consistent a >> > > way as possible. >> > >> > They would. >> >> At least it's easy to learn how to say German words, and how to know >> which word a German has just said. >> >> > > French pronounces as few of the letters in a word as it can get >> > > away with. >> > >> > Terrible language, we stole the best parts of their language. >> >> Yes, mostly from the original Latin... >> >> > > English pronounces most, but not all, of the letters in a word, >> > > in as many different ways as possible. >> > >> > How about the name 'Cholmondeley ' which is pronounced 'Chumley' >> >> Agreed. >> >> St. John = Sinjun >> Featherstonehaugh = Fanshaw >> Gloucester = Gloster >> Worcester = Wooster > >Oops, I forgot: > >Southwark = Suthark >Mousehole = Mousal >Southwell = Suthell >Leicester = Lester >Cockburn = Coburn >Magdelen (college) = Mawdlin >etc... > >I also caused some confusion when asking for directions to >"Schenectady" in New York State, USA, some years ago. > >Antony. I'm originally from Chicago in Illinois state, USA. On a job hunting safari in Los Angeles, CA, USA, I asked a receptionist over the phone whether their company was near sepul-vay-da street, with the accent on "vay". She laughed for 5 minutes. It's supposed to be pronounced se-pul-vuh-duh with the accent on "pul". It's spelled "Sepulveda". SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Marker
This email was to mark the point I got to in my outline of everything that's been said in the DNG software authoring standards, because my email client (claws-mail) doesn't have a bookmarking capability, as far as I know. SteveT Steve Litt said on Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:58:07 -0400 >This serves as a marker. I'll explain later. > >SteveT > >Steve Litt >Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the >Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques >___ >Dng mailing list >Dng@lists.dyne.org >https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 16:35:52 +0200, Didier wrote in message <74e5400a-5e8c-4a22-d673-5f181644e...@in2p3.fr>: > Le 29/07/2021 à 20:10, Andreas Messer a écrit : > > On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 03:58:02PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: > >> With all respect due to your work, I tend to think that with > >> such expensive and dangerous machines, more investment should be > >> put into hardware so as to get controllers with a decent ram. And > >> maybe the firmware could take safety action when software > >> crashes. > > Sure, but I'm not the boss :-) > Your boss is the ultimate responsible person in case of human > hazard, at the condition s?he is properly educated, and it might be > your responsibility to educate her/him. ...or walk out the door and Blow The Big Whistle in Prime Time Media if said Twin Haired Bosses don't wanna get it. Or defect to a Safe country where such whistles Can be blown. > > > >> Similarly, more investment should be put in software so as to > >> make a review of available languages suited for mssion-critical > >> applications and invest in learning the chosen language. C and C++ > >> are so error-prone that they are really not suited. > > Well, you can implement bugs in any kind of language. To be honest, > > crashes are the most easy ones to find. I know there are other > > languages outside but here applies the same as above: I'm not the > > one to decide. > Not all language are equal. Some really discourage bad > programming, meaning it takes a big effort to actually program > badly/unsafely, while it is still possible. Others open traps under > your feet everywhere. ..2 lists on these 2 kindsa programming languages would be nice. > > I can just give hints and try to push in some direction. But > > embedded software development is still driven by myths like "C is > > faster than C++" and its hard overcome these. Maybe a generation > > thing. > Myths actually. The advantage of C and C++ is to be easily > portable to every paltform since the compiler and runtime are always > available by default. But, when you develop a private application, > you can invest in building the necessary environment. > > > > My personal way to push through this is to run as much (automated) > > firmware tests in our hardware-in-the-loop test system as possible. > > And to have a testcase for every single requirement, situation, > > sequence or ever seen bug in the software. We end up to have 20-30 > > testruns a day distributed among different test setups, SoC cpu > > generations, operating systems. The only missing thing is kind of > > developer slap robot to punish the developer who made the bad > > commit automatically :-) > Not sure that works (~: Would make the programmers nervous. > Stress-based human management causes bad surprises. ..it did work pretty well for Stalin until March 1'st 1953. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:14:36 +0200, Antony wrote in message <202107302314.36917.antony.st...@devuan.open.source.it>: > I also caused some confusion when asking for directions to > "Schenectady" in New York State, USA, some years ago. ..aouch. What sort of shenanigans did that cause? ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:10:24 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message <20210730001024.rjm4r3fxejkxe...@topoi.pooq.com>: > On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 04:57:44PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > al3xu5 said on Thu, 29 Jul 2021 17:33:10 +0200 > > > > > >11) Document and document and document all the code (vars, > > >functions, errors etc. ... all) > > > > I do that: Nobody else does. It really makes things difficult when I > > need to work on or with somebody's code. > > I ofter predocument -- explain what my code is intended to do before I > write it. > > This is a planning document. ...and what a lot of bug hunters would wanna have handy to answer the "What the F*** were they even trying to do here???" debugging things. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] GoLUG August Meeting info: DNG Rules of the Road
Hi all, All necessary information to attend the August 4 GoLUG meeting, which deals with the DNG derived software guides for good security, readability and modifiability, can be seen at http://golug.info . SteveT Steve Litt Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Saturday 31 July 2021 at 00:27:16, Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:14:36 +0200, Antony wrote in meesage: > > > I also caused some confusion when asking for directions to > > "Schenectady" in New York State, USA, some years ago. > > ..aouch. What sort of shenanigans did that cause? ;o) Fortunately, I wasn't trying to get to Shenaniga - or "Shenandoah" as I believe the locals spell it :)) Antony. -- Late in 1972 President Richard Nixon announced that the rate of increase of inflation was decreasing. This was the first time a sitting president used a third derivative to advance his case for re-election. - Hugo Rossi, Notices of the American Mathematical Society Please reply to the list; please *don't* CC me. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Marker
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:10:34 -0400, Steve wrote in message <20210730181034.418a3...@mydesk.domain.cxm>: > This email was to mark the point I got to in my outline of everything > that's been said in the DNG software authoring standards, because my > email client (claws-mail) doesn't have a bookmarking capability, as > far as I know. ..huh? And he top posts. ..chk down the "Message" menu for "Mark", "Color label" and "Tags" for marker ideas, or down the "Tools" for filtering tool ideas, or "Configuration" for filtering, plugins, "Tags" or "Actions" ideas, or down the other 4 menus for search and help ideas. ..e.g. [Ctrl]+[3] to color your Marker thread pink. ;o) > SteveT > > > Steve Litt said on Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:58:07 -0400 > > >This serves as a marker. I'll explain later. > > > >SteveT -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
On 21.07.21 14:36, Didier Kryn wrote: I want to add to the comments that this alloca() function has been added (by gcc ?) to work around a missing feature of the C language: dynamic allocation on the stack. What you *actually* want is not "on stack" (directly), but automatically freed when leaving the function scope - doing it by moving SP is just an specific implementation. But actually a problematic one that needs great caution: you usually don't know how much free stack you actually have. In kernel space, we have the golden rule of not doing any larger stack allocations, even not larger fixed sized arrays. --mtx -- --- Hinweis: unverschlüsselte E-Mails können leicht abgehört und manipuliert werden ! Für eine vertrauliche Kommunikation senden Sie bitte ihren GPG/PGP-Schlüssel zu. --- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult Free software and Linux embedded engineering i...@metux.net -- +49-151-27565287 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Starting outline for the DNG Safe Programmer Certificate
On 30.07.21 00:32, Josef Grosch via Dng wrote: Global variables are a disaster looking for a place to happen, avoid at all cost. The scope of variables should be as small as possible. it depends ... for small programs where you really *know* (by definition) there really may only be one instance of that data, it might be actually the better solution - in that case you know the working set for sure (size of .data). This is the kind of programming where you also rely on the OS (kernel, supervisor, container, ...) doing all post termination cleanups. Many Plan9 programs are written in that way - they're so damn small that they just don't need much function local (or even dynamically allocated) data. --mtx -- --- Hinweis: unverschlüsselte E-Mails können leicht abgehört und manipuliert werden ! Für eine vertrauliche Kommunikation senden Sie bitte ihren GPG/PGP-Schlüssel zu. --- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult Free software and Linux embedded engineering i...@metux.net -- +49-151-27565287 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] New service manager being developed
On 21.07.21 13:34, d...@d404.nl wrote: Great initiative. I am currently using Alpine combined with s6-overlay in most of my docker containers and it works very well. Just curious: what are you using a s6 inside docker containers for ? I've always been under the impression that docker containers are meant for running only one application/service per container and thus don't need an extra service supervisor inside the container. By the way: IMHO a huge portion of the whole topic is describing the individual services. I've made some experiments on some hi-level service description that hopefully should be universal enough for driving quite any supervisor/service manager on any distro from that, while still being easy to maintain, even for the actual package upstreams. Of course, that's just a little PoC, nothing usable in the field. https://github.com/metux/srvman --mtx -- --- Hinweis: unverschlüsselte E-Mails können leicht abgehört und manipuliert werden ! Für eine vertrauliche Kommunikation senden Sie bitte ihren GPG/PGP-Schlüssel zu. --- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult Free software and Linux embedded engineering i...@metux.net -- +49-151-27565287 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult said on Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:24:07 +0200
>In kernel space, we have the golden rule of not doing any larger stack
>allocations, even not larger fixed sized arrays.
Larger than how much? Surely
bestdistro[12]; strncpy(bestdistro, "Devuan", strlen("Devuan"));
would be OK, right?
SteveT
Steve Litt
Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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Re: [DNG] Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed
If you want this, it's easy enough to allocate your own stack, and write
functions that allocate from it and release the allocation. If you were
writing in C++, you could make releasing the allocation automatic.
I think this illustrates why the kernel developers are taking Rust
seriously.
On Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 4:48 PM Steve Litt wrote:
> Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult said on Fri, 30 Jul 2021 15:24:07 +0200
>
>
> >In kernel space, we have the golden rule of not doing any larger stack
> >allocations, even not larger fixed sized arrays.
>
> Larger than how much? Surely
>
> bestdistro[12]; strncpy(bestdistro, "Devuan", strlen("Devuan"));
>
> would be OK, right?
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> Spring 2021 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful
> Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
> ___
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@lists.dyne.org
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>
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Re: [DNG] [OT] British vs American language
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 20:04:17 +0100 Rowland Penny via Dng wrote: > On Fri, 2021-07-30 at 13:55 -0500, o1bigtenor wrote: > ... at least we don't describe things as male or > female as some of the European languages do. We're starting to. There's this push that "man" doesn't mean "human". ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Marker
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 18:10:34 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > This email was to mark the point I got to in my outline of everything > that's been said in the DNG software authoring standards, because my > email client (claws-mail) doesn't have a bookmarking capability, as > far as I know. I also use Claws Mail. It has a "mark" feature. Message > Mark > Mark If you're in the right mode/setting, you can hover over that menu entry and press your desired hotkey. It will then also flag the folder which has any marked item. You can also assign a hotkey to jump to the next flagged message. View > Go to > Next marked message Hope that helps. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Documentation, pseudocode, code (was: Nasty Linux systemd security bug revealed)
On Fri, 30 Jul 2021 23:31:39 +0200 Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 20:10:24 -0400, Hendrik wrote in message > > > I ofter predocument -- explain what my code is intended to do > > before I write it. > > ...and what a lot of bug hunters would wanna have handy to answer the > "What the F*** were they even trying to do here???" debugging things. I like the notion of having a planning document which is then copied into pseudocode, which is then transformed into comments-and-code. - The code borrows from the grammar of the pseudocode to keep it almost-language. - Terse comments; a simplification of anything that should stay actual-language. - Explanation comments. I think negatively of explanation, and keep the mindset to wonder if it's because the code itself is unclear, and therefore "bad" (which it may or may not be). Those explanations are often justifications: "Not mine", "I was told this is correct", legacy code, licensed code etc. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
