Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Hello > I believe you mean (specifically) cut off from access to GMail > send/receive access by GMail users, as an alternative to using GMail's > proprietary WebUI. Yes, that's very strongly my understanding, too. > > Of course, my own way of eliminating GMail problems is: Don't use > GMail, and you thereby magically avoid GMail problems. ;-> If it isn't clear yet: There is another risk of using a web mail interface - the automatic spell checker in those things means that surveillance capitalists have the cover to collect your typing at the keystroke level and possibly build up a profile of your typing - err, fingerprint. Which, like every biometric, is difficult to clear and reset. > > It's increasingly hard to exchange e-mail between lesser known providers > > or even self-hosted servers and GMail accounts. > > This does _not_ accord with my experience. In my experience, if you run > a spam-clean and RFC-compliant SMTP operation and take modest > anti-forgery measures (such as my domains' strongly asserted SPF RR), > your mail domain will have no problem bidirectionally communicating with > GMail / Googlemail -- without spamboxing or teergrubing, etc. > > I keep monitoring this situation, and it may change, but that is still > my honest assessment from many decades of self-hosted SMTP smarthost > operation. I'd like to echo Rick's observation: Running a mail server is still totally doable. I say still, because the viability depends on there being a nontrivial pool of mailbox owner operated mail hosts. And it is bigger than mail - a good and free internet depends on reachable, static IPs with proper DNS names being held by the general population. So it is truly worth it to spend a few dollars a month to get a VPS/VM/staticVPN and do something with it. Like muscle and brain-cells, those things can disappear if you don't use them. And, like Devuan, this isn't a rear-guard action only: There are utterly delightful sections of a better internet being built - seek them out, and help. For instance, the gemini project (gemini.circumlunar.space) is doing awesome work to shrink the metasizing mass that is the web-browser down to something treatable. Here is a very simple gemini browser URL='gemini://gus.guru/known-hosts' HST=$(echo $URL | cut -f3 -d/) (echo -en "$URL\r\n" ; sleep 3) | openssl s_client -quiet -no_ign_eof -connect "$HST:1965" -servername "$HST" Regarding mail: I have this hope that a personal mail server will become proper status symbol, and maybe even a heirloom. Rick will remember a mailing list called linux-elitists@ which didn't allow certain User-agents to subscribe. It would be nifty if there were a mailing list, with another pretentious title - say inet-lords@ or net-kings@ which only allowed posting from addresses starting with admin@ or, even better, abuse@ as these addresses are reserved and unlikely to be given out by providers... regards marc ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Zoom via Firefox
Hi, I'm on Devuan Beowulf, running lightdm, openbox and lxpanel. I don't run pulseaudio, I just use ALSA for sound. Firefox sound works for showing videos etc. I have set mixer values so that I can record arecord -vvv -f dat -d 4 /tmp/a.wav and it plays back. So speakers and microphone working. I want to run Zoom via Firefox (not via external app), sound only - I don't have a webcam. I join the zoom meeting, click allow firefox access to mic., and am in the meeting, except no sound and no one can hear me. There are also no images within the Zoom session. If I start a new tab in firefox I can view a youtube video with sound just fine. But nothing from the Zoom tab. Anyone any ideas? I have done some googling but not discovered how to eliminate the 1001 pointers to fixing sound in windows etc. cheers jim ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Zoom via Firefox
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 11:10:18AM +, Jim Jackson wrote: > > Firefox sound works for showing videos etc. I have set mixer values so that > I can record > > arecord -vvv -f dat -d 4 /tmp/a.wav > > and it plays back. So speakers and microphone working. > > I want to run Zoom via Firefox (not via external app), sound only - I don't Just use apulse? Works here with firefox/zoom and no pulseaudio... ael ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Zoom via Firefox
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020, ael wrote: > On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 11:10:18AM +, Jim Jackson wrote: > > > > Firefox sound works for showing videos etc. I have set mixer values so that > > I can record > > > > arecord -vvv -f dat -d 4 /tmp/a.wav > > > > and it plays back. So speakers and microphone working. > > > > I want to run Zoom via Firefox (not via external app), sound only - I > > don't > > Just use apulse? Works here with firefox/zoom and no pulseaudio... > Given that firefox works without pulseaudio I don't see the need for apulse - but I will give it a try ... Just tried it. Behaviour is exactly the same. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Zoom via Firefox
On 28-10-2020 12:10, Jim Jackson wrote: > Hi, > > I'm on Devuan Beowulf, running lightdm, openbox and lxpanel. > I don't run pulseaudio, I just use ALSA for sound. > > Firefox sound works for showing videos etc. I have set mixer values so that > I can record > > arecord -vvv -f dat -d 4 /tmp/a.wav > > and it plays back. So speakers and microphone working. > > I want to run Zoom via Firefox (not via external app), sound only - I don't > have a webcam. I join the zoom meeting, click allow firefox access to mic., > and am in the meeting, except no sound and no one can hear me. There are > also no images within the Zoom session. If I start a new tab in firefox I > can view a youtube video with sound just fine. But nothing from the Zoom > tab. > > Anyone any ideas? I have done some googling but not discovered how to > eliminate the 1001 pointers to fixing sound in windows etc. > > cheers > jim > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I do not have experience with Zoom but with Jitsi and discovered that disabling WebRTC leakage in Firefox because of WebRTC leaking ip addresses also crippled Jitsi. Grtz. Nick signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Zoom via Firefox
Quoting d...@d404.nl (d...@d404.nl): > I do not have experience with Zoom but with Jitsi and discovered that > disabling WebRTC leakage in Firefox because of WebRTC leaking ip > addresses also crippled Jitsi. The first comment on this bug is said to address that (even though the bug report is for the standalone Electron-based Jitsi Meet client, 'jitsi-meet-electron'): https://github.com/jitsi/jitsi-meet-electron/issues/324 In short, yes, what you observe is correct, but you can accomplish your objective by blocking WebRTC leakage using the block-WebRTC-leakage feature of the uBlock Origin extension, rather than using the similar feature in Firefox's about:config . ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
It seems we're drifting away from the main subject. Count me in! Of course, my own way of eliminating GMail problems is: Don't use GMail, and you thereby magically avoid GMail problems. ;-> It's 2020. Snowden leaks started in 2013. . (Also, it seems to be stylized as Gmail, not GMail) It's increasingly hard to exchange e-mail between lesser known providers or even self-hosted servers and GMail accounts. ? If your emails are being refused by others, including major email hosters, I would kindly suggest you check you got at least correct SPF + DKIM entries. You can throw DMARC into the mix if you wish so, too. This does _not_ accord with my experience. In my experience, if you run a spam-clean and RFC-compliant SMTP operation and take modest anti-forgery measures (such as my domains' strongly asserted SPF RR), your mail domain will have no problem bidirectionally communicating with GMail / Googlemail -- without spamboxing or teergrubing, etc. I keep monitoring this situation, and it may change, but that is still my honest assessment from many decades of self-hosted SMTP smarthost operation. Yup. Own mail server here. The last problem I had was my server refused an email from some classic corporate suit-bearer (their line of work being IT)... because it was too big. Yup, Postfix's default envelope size limit is 1024 bytes (which is neither SI - 10.24 MB - or IEC - 9.77 MiB). You read correctly: someone tried to send me a >10 MiB email, mixing up email with a decent out-of-band file-transfer technology. (For the full story, the attachement was some popular slide-producing proprietary format. Had to accept 30+ MiB for that crap to arrive in my mailbox. Switched the parameter back to the default value right afterwards and never ran into such a problem anymore, with anyone.). I'd like to echo Rick's observation: Running a mail server is still totally doable. I say still, because the viability depends on there being a nontrivial pool of mailbox owner operated mail hosts. And it is bigger than mail - a good and free internet depends on reachable, static IPs with proper DNS names being held by the general population. So it is truly worth it to spend a few dollars a month to get a VPS/VM/staticVPN and do something with it. Like muscle and brain-cells, those things can disappear if you don't use them. Self-hosting, self-hosting, self-hosting (am I mimicking someone crazy shouting "deveopers" on stage?). Seriously: self-hosting. Oh, and cipher + forward-secrecy + out-of-band channels whenever required. It's saddening to assess how little is known by the general public (including people who actually work on technical matters in IT) about key technologies, like DNS (the mother/father of all) or email. One of my crusades for years: Yes, '+' is a valid email address character, please stop copy-pasting the same regular expression which denies it. A tiny glimpse on how inadequate mail-related Web forms usually are. Internet should not rely on a pool of self-hosted services. It shall become the Internet again, as in inter-net, inter-network, ie a myriad of hosts which are just that: hosts. Everyone hosting... his/her own services. Some technology has been there for 40 years now, and it's still deemed 'too complex' by people who actually don't care (but will never admit it with those words). Cue consumerism. Regarding mail: I have this hope that a personal mail server will become proper status symbol, and maybe even a heirloom. Rick will remember a mailing list called linux-elitists@ which didn't allow certain User-agents to subscribe. It would be nifty if there were a mailing list, with another pretentious title - say inet-lords@ or net-kings@ which only allowed posting from addresses starting with admin@ or, even better, abuse@ as these addresses are reserved and unlikely to be given out by providers... IIRC, some FreeBSD (NetBSD?) IRC channels do that with IRC clients. Apart from the fun of technically doing it, it might be seen as having fun at the expense of others, showing self-righteousness & definitely throwing off those who are different. Not very inclusive not showing social qualities like empathy. And definitely polluting the signal of technology serving (human) lives, not reverse. This kind of jokes works inside an air-tight group. Bernard (Beer) Rosset https://rosset.net/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Well said to all of that. On 26/10/2020 17:10, John Crisp via Dng wrote: > > (why DID they need to make it TB > corporation and for not a NFP?). As far as I am aware, this question has not been answered in public (although it could simply be that it was the least-friction way forward). The corporation now has about 15 employees (according to statements on tb-planning) and so there is not-insignificant income coming in now. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 27/10/2020 22:47, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting John Crisp via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > > [snip much-appreciated picture of behind-the-scenes management > folderol at Thunderbird Project:] > >> The problem is decent alternatives are not great [...] > Just in case people have lost track of this, the long-term nub of the > problem is: revenue model. > > Firefox brought in money. Thunderbird did not. Yes, this was certainly, as I understood it, an issue at the time that Thunderbird was cut loose. Mozilla was described as "paying a tax to support Thunderbird". At the time, I seem to recall (from mail list discussions) that one of the things that the then Thunderbird council had to sort out with Mozilla was the proportion of donations that came in via Thunderbird-related links and was thus due to Thunderbird. However, things do seem to have been sorted out. According to recent statements on tb-planning, MZLA Corp (the corporate owner of Thunderbird) now has around 15 employees! That's some real money there. Presumably the income that allows for 15 employees is derived partly from donations and partly from Thunderbird's own commission income from email signup links. One might cynically observe that now it seems that money is there, Thunderbird is back in the Mozilla fold. ;-) -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Self-hosted SMTP (was: TB and Enigmail)
Quoting Bernard Rosset via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > It seems we're drifting away from the main subject. > Count me in! Roger that! Subject header tweaked. > ? > If your emails are being refused by others, including major email > hosters, I would kindly suggest you check you got at least correct > SPF + DKIM entries. You can throw DMARC into the mix if you wish so, > too. Umm... As I already mentioned upthread, my domains' e-mail continue to have very high deliverability. Those domains feature strongly asserted SPF RRs in their auth DNS. However, by carefully considered local policy, I decline to also implement DKIM/DMARC, considering those extensions to have been botched in design and implementation by Yahoo, Inc. (DKIM seems to be the keystone problem, there, particularly its hapless hostility to MLM-mediated forwarding.) Empirically, I so far perceive no measurable loss of host reputation from declining to implement DKIM/DMARC. I _do_ publish, in each of my domains' DNS, deliberately non-compliant DMARC RRs, just to make my stance quite clear, e.g.: :r! dig -t txt _dmarc.linuxmafia.com @ns1.linuxmafia.com +short "DMARC: tragically misdesigned since 2012. Check our SPF RR, instead." > It's saddening to assess how little is known by the general public > (including people who actually work on technical matters in IT) about > key technologies, like DNS (the mother/father of all) or email. True datum: When I began hosting my own SMTP smarthosts, I was still a staff accountant (UK: chartered accountant) for a living, not a sysadmin. Fortunately, nobody told me I couldn't do it, so it worked. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 2020-10-28 07:47, Rick Moen wrote: ... > I continue to like projects that are limited in feature scope enough to > not live or die by corporate underwriting. E.g., mutt continues to be > maintainable by a small group of motivated developers. When I want it > to be graphical, I run it in an xterm. ;-> > I totally agree. That is one reason I thought TB was a good choice over other, at the time, popular software such as Eudora and Outlook. It was a safe bet, but maybe I should start looking into a new "PIM" infrastructure. I'll keep dovecot and postfix, but I'm not sure about the rest. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 2020-10-28 08:20, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Dimitris T. via Dng (dng@lists.dyne.org): > >> still recommending TB to clients/people though... > > In case it's useful, I keep a list of all known MUAs for Linux, here: > http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Mail/muas.html > Necessary disclaimer: As anyone who's ever kept alive over decades a > complex Web page on an evolving subject knows, it absolutely needs > updating and maintenance. I just don't currently know what's missing > and needing fixing, and won't know until I can next waste a day > re-surveying the field, fixing bitrot, etc. > > I can't remember exactly why I started that page, but sometimes in the > past it's been something like hearing, once too often, 'There aren't > enough mail clients for Linux', and wanting to rejoin something like > 'Really, 123 isn't enough? How many do _you_ use, from day to day?' > Nice list. Thanks! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
