Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hey, On Sun, 2020-10-25 at 15:25 +0900, Simon Walter wrote: > > I am particularly interested in a "groupware" type of solution. I am > > currently using SOGo. I am not stuck on that though. Things like > CalDAV, > > CardDAV, etc., are useful for me as I like to keep my contacts and > > schedule synced across devices. from my experience, evolution can be a complete replacement for thunderbird as groupware... caldav/carddav/pgp are included by default. currently i use tbsync & other extensions in TB to sync with own nextcloud.. (only filelink extension isn't available in evolution) still recommending TB to clients/people though... cross OS compatibility and extremely simple moving/backing up TB profiles between systems being the main reason, and autoconfig accounts when supported by server, another... (like outlook does...). my 2c, d -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEECppUFUF7C9a+eth/9jQAR3Vpa4YFAl+VL8kACgkQ9jQAR3Vp a4Zvfw//fFs4gc7BfIoLfiD8ye4aa+KvvjhMHzTvgv4rfrxunGI6KK1Ea4iMNFTR EXTvapoEkenL4DS76WSm/T9PWCbUTACRNIl1vMU7LpA2uzi5SyBe2MXdtxMnRTxz rIZ++/JPRClwZIo/qfgxecjAruoyuU3RWDeD1vXGxmp9tXHELKqKq0qRt/1NXJeb PJbkSyf1anZB7oBne2n97p/DPer+RBM4K0nMVGwM4ah4YQfIX+gZOFV27nW9OWxd LDAxoBUrzZVDXSAuL4J55lYbIVfi/dN/aye3KWugAGbFe4g05WIVh5BKIMJxYoIj MuybSvcjc2mYYx4jV7UA5rQSLf/5o+BhQMR9kTIhY3tnSMf8pTG90do87L41FEyd gmriOOtT09Wxb56d0vl0JJprwmu2nUIFvYmWZ/t60QY9eMSzZDi8WE39ktE8hTOb AAzAzBbXa9dDgSf1cj54LoQeZeoW09clpZDPXzEPNK8ynlH/kaqk00GRVipeQMBz eGT/8GN+e6dN978wsrAbd2MAX8Vf7MtP8di4gUtqt6zCwTIboZCjibk5ckJr7uJo kYSyGY2Jol6OLVLfYzgHWsXVdsZJEg7rng7me0noyi6KCtFHCdrT2TnnqfGX4b8+ 8ON1sKSXlkph9Xm6bDoWYfufcT6mjlwjVRuTS5fuUxg1YfXRlNA= =etPK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 25/10/2020 06:33, Simon Walter wrote: > On 10/25/20 7:20 AM, Mark Rousell wrote: >> >> The reason for this change is that Thunderbird is deprecating all its >> old addons (the entire ecosystem) and Enigmail won't work on the new >> Thunderbird. It's less than satisfactory. > > Yes, I understand the reasons. They may make sense for FF. Though, I > don't know if they apply to TB. I do not think they make sense for Thunderbird. Thunderbird was in effect railroaded into it because it cannot part ways with whatever the Firefox project does with Gecko (or whatever it's called now). I view this as a bug, not a feature. I understand that the Thunderbird project lacked resources to go its own way (i.e. forking Gecko to be able to support their own addon ecosystem) but I still view this as severely damaging to Thunderbird's future and, as such, is a systemic problem. It is destroying one of Thunderbird's USPs (i.e. fully capable addons). > That's interesting and may be a good thing. I should do more > investigation. I recommend TB to most of my clients. I want to make > sure that is still a good recommendation. I'm in the same position with respect to recommending to clients. I think that Thunderbird is still a good recommendation pro tem but I do not see this as a long term situation. I do not think that the current leadership's direction is the right one in order for Thunderbird to be able to maintain unique USPs over potentially competing mail and calendar clients. As an aside, I don't think that Firefox has a great future either. In summary, it seems to me that it's being converted more and more into a Chrome clone and if users have a choice between Chrome and a Chrome-alike then they simply seem to choose Chrome. Firefox has lost its USPs (not least its earlier fully-capable addon ecosystem), and Thunderbird under its current leadership (and, I admit, with its current resources) seems to be inexorably following. So, I'm sticking with Thunderbird for now until I identify a better alternative. The loss of the old addons ecosystem and, in particular, the loss of Enigmail and replacement with a less capable internal OpenPGP implementation were the final turning point for me (together with planned UI changes that are not so appropriate in my opinion for desktop use and with general project leadership quality). The replacement (for me) for Thunderbird might not yet exist but I am confident that something will emerge. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
Hello Mark, it seems that you are highly concerned with the path Thunderbird is taking for the future. Might I suggest to you, and everyone following this exchange for that matter, to head over the [tb- planning][1] mailing list. It's purpose is to, quote: 1. *Offer an easy, transparent venue for getting constructive, Thunderbird-related work done.* 2. *Offering community members the chance to post until they get satisfaction about their concerns.* I am pretty sure that if you were to gently explain your concern and future perceived issue, somebody would gladly take the time to answer you. It is not, however, a place to request supports. Take care, Ludovic [1]: https://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/tb-planning On dim, 2020-10-25 at 15:49 +, Mark Rousell wrote: > On 25/10/2020 06:33, Simon Walter wrote: > > On 10/25/20 7:20 AM, Mark Rousell wrote: > > > The reason for this change is that Thunderbird is deprecating all > > > its old addons (the entire ecosystem) and Enigmail won't work on > > > the new Thunderbird. It's less than satisfactory. > > > > Yes, I understand the reasons. They may make sense for FF. Though, > > I don't know if they apply to TB. > > I do not think they make sense for Thunderbird. Thunderbird was in > effect railroaded into it because it cannot part ways with whatever > the Firefox project does with Gecko (or whatever it's called now). I > view this as a bug, not a feature. > I understand that the Thunderbird project lacked resources to go its > own way (i.e. forking Gecko to be able to support their own addon > ecosystem) but I still view this as severely damaging to > Thunderbird's future and, as such, is a systemic problem. It is > destroying one of Thunderbird's USPs (i.e. fully capable addons). > > That's interesting and may be a good thing. I should do more > > investigation. I recommend TB to most of my clients. I want to make > > sure that is still a good recommendation. > > I'm in the same position with respect to recommending to clients. I > think that Thunderbird is still a good recommendation pro tem but I > do not see this as a long term situation. I do not think that the > current leadership's direction is the right one in order for > Thunderbird to be able to maintain unique USPs over potentially > competing mail and calendar clients. > As an aside, I don't think that Firefox has a great future either. In > summary, it seems to me that it's being converted more and more into > a Chrome clone and if users have a choice between Chrome and a > Chrome-alike then they simply seem to choose Chrome. Firefox has lost > its USPs (not least its earlier fully-capable addon ecosystem), and > Thunderbird under its current leadership (and, I admit, with its > current resources) seems to be inexorably following. > So, I'm sticking with Thunderbird for now until I identify a better > alternative. The loss of the old addons ecosystem and, in particular, > the loss of Enigmail and replacement with a less capable internal > OpenPGP implementation were the final turning point for me (together > with planned UI changes that are not so appropriate in my opinion for > desktop use and with general project leadership quality). > The replacement (for me) for Thunderbird might not yet exist but I am > confident that something will emerge. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] mssh not working (Chimaera)
The problem seems to be gone after libgtk update. Thanks for the advice! Besides, I've learnt GNU parallel, which is not what I was looking for, but turned out to be a wonderful tool. Le ven. 2 oct. 2020 23:53, g4sra via Dng a écrit : > On 02/10/2020 15:09, Dimitri Minaev via Dng wrote: > -- snip -- > > If you could offer an alternative that provides synchronized input to a > > number of SSH sessions, I'd be glad to hear your opinion. I know that > > similar capabilities are found in Terminator and my favorite Konsole, but > > they are not as comfortable as mssh when you need to open a bunch of > > sessions. > > I cannot say for sure as I have never used mssh, but clusterssh might do > what you are looking for. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
forgot to mention seamonkey (https://www.seamonkey-project.org/). -- also these days, webmail/nextcloud can be used as groupware too, with calendars/contacts included.. webmail gpg support is very rare (for a pretty good reason imo), but mailpile can be used instead... d On 10/25/20 9:56 AM, Dimitris T. via Dng wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Hey, On Sun, 2020-10-25 at 15:25 +0900, Simon Walter wrote: I am particularly interested in a "groupware" type of solution. I am currently using SOGo. I am not stuck on that though. Things like CalDAV, CardDAV, etc., are useful for me as I like to keep my contacts and schedule synced across devices. from my experience, evolution can be a complete replacement for thunderbird as groupware... caldav/carddav/pgp are included by default. currently i use tbsync & other extensions in TB to sync with own nextcloud.. (only filelink extension isn't available in evolution) still recommending TB to clients/people though... cross OS compatibility and extremely simple moving/backing up TB profiles between systems being the main reason, and autoconfig accounts when supported by server, another... (like outlook does...). my 2c, d -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEECppUFUF7C9a+eth/9jQAR3Vpa4YFAl+VL8kACgkQ9jQAR3Vp a4Zvfw//fFs4gc7BfIoLfiD8ye4aa+KvvjhMHzTvgv4rfrxunGI6KK1Ea4iMNFTR EXTvapoEkenL4DS76WSm/T9PWCbUTACRNIl1vMU7LpA2uzi5SyBe2MXdtxMnRTxz rIZ++/JPRClwZIo/qfgxecjAruoyuU3RWDeD1vXGxmp9tXHELKqKq0qRt/1NXJeb PJbkSyf1anZB7oBne2n97p/DPer+RBM4K0nMVGwM4ah4YQfIX+gZOFV27nW9OWxd LDAxoBUrzZVDXSAuL4J55lYbIVfi/dN/aye3KWugAGbFe4g05WIVh5BKIMJxYoIj MuybSvcjc2mYYx4jV7UA5rQSLf/5o+BhQMR9kTIhY3tnSMf8pTG90do87L41FEyd gmriOOtT09Wxb56d0vl0JJprwmu2nUIFvYmWZ/t60QY9eMSzZDi8WE39ktE8hTOb AAzAzBbXa9dDgSf1cj54LoQeZeoW09clpZDPXzEPNK8ynlH/kaqk00GRVipeQMBz eGT/8GN+e6dN978wsrAbd2MAX8Vf7MtP8di4gUtqt6zCwTIboZCjibk5ckJr7uJo kYSyGY2Jol6OLVLfYzgHWsXVdsZJEg7rng7me0noyi6KCtFHCdrT2TnnqfGX4b8+ 8ON1sKSXlkph9Xm6bDoWYfufcT6mjlwjVRuTS5fuUxg1YfXRlNA= =etPK -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 10/25/20 10:07 PM, Dimitris via Dng wrote: but mailpile can be used instead correction: mailvelope (https://www.mailvelope.com/en) OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] TB and Enigmail
On 25/10/2020 18:20, Ludovic Bellière wrote: > Hello Mark, it seems that you are highly concerned with the path > Thunderbird is taking for the future. Might I suggest to you, and > everyone following this exchange for that matter, to head over the [tb- > planning][1] mailing list. It's purpose is to, quote: > > 1. *Offer an easy, transparent venue for getting constructive, > Thunderbird-related work done.* > 2. *Offering community members the chance to post until they get > satisfaction about their concerns.* > > I am pretty sure that if you were to gently explain your concern and > future perceived issue, somebody would gladly take the time to answer > you. It is not, however, a place to request supports. Thanks. However, I am very familiar with tb-planning (and other Thunderbird mail lists) and have been a member of and contributor to tb-planning for over five years. I have reached my current views despite (or perhaps because of) what I heave learned on tb-planning and other TB-related mail lists/groups. One thing that I have learned is that (in my experience and as far as I can tell) expressing views that are not in accordance with those of the leadership is completely pointless. Nothing I can say will have any influence, benefit or use whatsoever. I understand the direction that the current leadership of the Thunderbird project is taking and their reasons for it and I do not agree with them, neither in substance nor in operational style. I do not think that Thunderbird will benefit overall in the longer run with the current direction. I understand and appreciate the difficulties that a project such as Thunderbird (with a lot of legacy code) faces but understanding both the difficulties and the leadership direction and style do not mean that I agree with them. For these (and other) reasons, I still read all of the Thunderbird-related mail lists but no longer contribute or comment to them. As I said in my earlier message, I am sticking with Thunderbird only until I can identify a better alternative. It would be churlish of me to claim that nothing that the current project is doing is of value and so I say no such thing (i.e. some work undoubtedly will be of positive benefit) but, all the same, I do not think that Thunderbird as a fully featured thick mail client has a secure future as things now stand. And so I am looking for viable alternatives for both myself and my clients. -- Mark Rousell ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
