Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 On 30/12/19 3:10 pm, terryc wrote: > On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:11:16 +1100 Andrew McGlashan via Dng > wrote: In my experience, when people who do > not do the work start telling the people who do do the work, what > to do, many efforts disintigrate. Without users, including sysadmins willing to install and support an OS, it's use will disintegrate. It may as well then be a distro just for the DDs and those that don't care about non systemd pollution and/or vandalism. A. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iHUEAREIAB0WIQTJAoMHtC6YydLfjUOoFmvLt+/i+wUCXgn+TgAKCRCoFmvLt+/i +8LwAQDWqhzQVkBTLeqXMVjHIKy9EQ6nlr45Q9mGucMi3cwjGQEAl3GHl6TA8MTZ VrhpIB59ktxBfnyzRXDs6ue46WgSxR4= =phNs -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Reportbug not giving feedback?
Hello, I have reported a few bugs via Reportbug in the last few days. The system would usually respond with an automated mail, but I haven't received anything. Also, there is no trace of my bug reports at https://bugs.devuan.org/ Anyone else experiencing these problems? -- Cheers, Nico ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Reportbug not giving feedback?
Anno domini 2019 Mon, 30 Dec 15:20:50 + Nicola Orrù via Dng scripsit: > Hello, > > I have reported a few bugs via Reportbug in the last few days. The > system would usually respond with an automated mail, but I haven't > received anything. > > Also, there is no trace of my bug reports at https://bugs.devuan.org/ > > Anyone else experiencing these problems? > Me too. I've sent one on "avrdude", it did not appear. Nik -- Please do not email me anything that you are not comfortable also sharing with the NSA, CIA ... ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:10:46 +1100 terryc wrote: > On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:11:16 +1100 > Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > > Hash: SHA256 > > > > Hi, > > > > On 28/12/19 9:03 pm, Alexis PM via Dng wrote: > > > A mediocre result, neither good nor bad. The best option for > > > people who don't want to use systemd, Option 6 "E: Support for > > > multiple init systems is Required", came in last. But Option 1 > > > "F: Focus on systemd" came in second place, if it had won it > > > would have been a tragedy. > > > > It's completely broken when only one group of interested parties > > have the only say; DDs should be ashamed. Another wasted > > opportunity to make things right has been blown and there probably > > won't be any other opportunity afforded ever again :( > > > > Debian needs to somehow find a way to include users (especially > > sysadmins) in a meaningful way in votes of such significance. > > In my experience, when people who do not do the work start telling the > people who do do the work, what to do, many efforts disintigrate. I didn't hear anyone telling people what to do. I heard Tom ask a question. > > As a user, I simply choose which best distribution serves my purpose > and when it ceases to do so, I simply move on as I have in the past. I think most of us have plan B and plan C in case sans-systemd distros go bad or go defunct, but what I'm hearing you say is you think it's bad to provide feedback to the VUAs, and instead will just switch distros. Is that really superior to Tom's question? Many years ago, on this mailing list, one of the VUAs mentioned that the long term plan was to leave Debian behind and become the Devuan independent distro. If I were a mind reader I'd guess that his statement was because he foresaw the possibility of a future Debian corruption like we're seeing today, he believed that continual modification of Debian was not a safe way to perpetuate the creation of Devuan, and eventually wanted to move away from that potential catastrophe. The GR results are at https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002 . Debian's systemd-complexity voting mechanism is hard to interpret, but two things are fairly clear: 1) The #2 option was to focus on systemd, screw other inits 2) The loser was "Support for multiple inits is required." Under those circumstances, I'd say the Vua who mentioned moving away from Debian eventually was wise and prescient. And given the results of the GR I'd say Tom was asking a question both wise and obvious, not trying to tell anyone what to do. Nothing I've written above is meant to in any way belittle the fact that the Devuan project has too few volunteers and volunteer hours and therefore cannot immediately or perhaps in the near future completely break away from Debian. SteveT Steve Litt December 2019 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Sort-of one-off thanks message
After spending the time since 2016 with waiting how things will turn out, a dying disk and certain recent Debian moves prompted me to stop using this system (after 21 years) and migrate to the current, stable Devuan instead[*]. Thank you for keeping the system I had been using all these years available. [*] This was mostly painless except that I had to update the kernel in the installation image in order to get support for my (fairly new) Intel NIC. In case anyone cares: The basic procedure for this is really straight-forward: Copy the contents of the .iso to some directory, copy the vmlinuz of your choice over the linux file in that directory, unpack the contents of Devuan initrd.gz into another directory[**], replace the lib/modules/ directory of the result with the modules directory of the new kernel, pack this up into a replacement initrd.gz [***] in the first new directory, recreate a bootable ISO-image from that []. Obviously, the after installation is complete, a new kernel needs to be added to the install system, too. Assuming the iso directory is called iso and the other ir, the commands are (mostly from memory) [**] cd ir; gunzip <../iso/initrd.gz | cpio -iv [***] find . | cpio -H newc -ov | gzip -9v >../iso/initrd.gz [] cd ..; genisoimage -b isolinux/isolinux.bin -c boot.cat -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -boot-info-table -r -o img iso; isohybrid img The updated image will then be in the img file. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'
On 12/29/19 10:46 PM, tom wrote: I know Devuan has been pretty much more or less 'to create a binary compatible Debian but without systemd', but at what point would it be determined that the best course of action may be to leave Debian behind and continue our own way? Probably won't happen any time soon due to manpower issues but it's worth thinking about. One way to measure that might be to see if we start falling farther behind debian. Right now, we're still catching up. Jessie was 2 years late. Ascii was 1 year late. Beowulf is 6 months late. Any talk of switching our base is premature. fsmithred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] OT? Who decides Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:46:51 -0500 Steve Litt wrote: > On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 15:10:46 +1100 > terryc wrote: > > > On Sat, 28 Dec 2019 23:11:16 +1100 > > Andrew McGlashan via Dng wrote: > > > > > Debian needs to somehow find a way to include users (especially > > > sysadmins) in a meaningful way in votes of such significance. > > > > In my experience, when people who do not do the work start telling > > the people who do do the work, what to do, many efforts > > disintigrate. > > I didn't hear anyone telling people what to do. I heard Tom ask a > question. Err, this is the DEVUAN list and not the DEBIAN list. Your comments remind me of that old skit about looking for lost money "over here where the light is better", rather than where the money was dropped. YMMV but I've lost track of the number of times in the past where something proposed by the Debian Devs has had strong opposition that has been ignored. So I also see making comments in the same view as "writing to IBM" which someone suggested in the recent past. > > As a user, I simply choose which best distribution serves my purpose > > and when it ceases to do so, I simply move on as I have in the > > past. > > I think most of us have plan B and plan C in case sans-systemd distros > go bad or go defunct, but what I'm hearing you say is you think it's > bad to provide feedback to the VUAs, and instead will just switch > distros. Is that really superior to Tom's question? As replied above, good luck, but debian stopped being plan A a while ago. Also, ever since I've been investigating/using Linux(93?), there has been a consistent theme for (some?) devs of "if you don't like it, then do it yourself". It can be a confronting reply, but much as I've never liked it, it is a valid response. People who volunteer, both in Linux and life, have the 'right"(?) to do what they want to. > Many years ago, on this mailing list, one of the VUAs mentioned that > the long term plan was to leave Debian behind and become the Devuan > independent distro. If I were a mind reader I'd guess that his > statement was because he foresaw the possibility of a future Debian > corruption like we're seeing today, he believed that continual > modification of Debian was not a safe way to perpetuate the creation > of Devuan, and eventually wanted to move away from that potential > catastrophe. That is what I am expecting MAY occur over time. Hopefully it will. so my 2c is to not beat your head against the Debian rock but work for the Devuan project. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] OT? Who decides Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd'
On 2019-12-30 17:04, terryc wrote: Err, this is the DEVUAN list and not the DEBIAN list. Your comments remind me of that old skit about looking for lost money "over here where the light is better", rather than where the money was dropped. Much older than a "skit". Try try Nasrrudin in the 14th century: http://www.rodneyohebsion.com/mullah-nasruddin.htm The key story is probably his most famous. No money involved: http://www.deepspirits.com/words-of-wisdom/sufi/sufi-story5.php ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Catching up (was Re: Result of the Debian vote 'General Resolution: Init systems and systemd')
fsmithred via Dng writes: > On 12/29/19 10:46 PM, tom wrote: >> >> I know Devuan has been pretty much more or less 'to create a binary >> compatible Debian but without systemd', but at what point would it be >> determined that the best course of action may be to leave Debian behind >> and continue our own way? Probably won't happen any time soon due to >> manpower issues but it's worth thinking about. > > One way to measure that might be to see if we start falling farther behind > debian. Right now, we're still catching up. > > Jessie was 2 years late. > Ascii was 1 year late. > Beowulf is 6 months late. You just brightened up my view of Devuan's future :-) I'd been getting a little disappointed with the fact there's still no beowulf but looking at it this way, you're still going strong, despite any resources issues. Keep up the good work! > Any talk of switching our base is premature. Hope this helps, -- Olaf Meeuwissen, LPIC-2FSF Associate Member since 2004-01-27 GnuPG key: F84A2DD9/B3C0 2F47 EA19 64F4 9F13 F43E B8A4 A88A F84A 2DD9 Support Free Softwarehttps://my.fsf.org/donate Join the Free Software Foundation https://my.fsf.org/join ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Introductory execline tutorial
Hi all, As you know, although execline is not required for writing run scripts for daemontools-encore, s6 and runit, some recommend it. I've created an introductory execline tutorial to get people over the hump. It's at: http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/execline.htm Hope you like it. SteveT Steve Litt December 2019 featured book: Rapid Learning for the 21st Century http://www.troubleshooters.com/rl21 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
