Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive
On Sat, 19 May 2018 20:49:45 +0200
Arnt Karlsen ha wrote:
> On Sat, 19 May 2018 16:57:07 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message
> <20180519165707.504d5c33@ayu.localdomain>:
>
> > On Sat, 19 May 2018 at 16:42:49 +0200
> > Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 19 May 2018 04:25:53 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message
> > > <20180519042553.7ba51256@ayu.localdomain>:
> > >
> > >>> {headdesk}
> > >>>
> > >>> I really don't think it's that difficult to understand that
> > >>> avoiding outsourcing in no way precludes appropriate fallbacks
> > >>> and measures to eliminate SPoFs. I'm frankly quite puzzled that
> > >>> my mentioning (as an example) GitLab elicited the comment 'This
> > >>> wouldn't have helped [because] you need redundancy' -- when I
> > >>> nowhere suggested eschewing redundancy and when that open source
> > >>> project has a mountain of documentation on that very subject.
> > >>> And I'm puzzled a second time to see you ignore my having just
> > >>> pointed that out, as if I hadn't.
> > >>
> > >> You need redundancy in repository's admins, not on
> > >> infrastructure.
> > >
> > > ..you need both, IME. 17 years ago, I was the final lawful
> > > webmaster at fmb.no, our domain docs were stolen by
> > > https://www.frp.no/ people.
> >
> > Humm, how can infrastructure redundancy protect against document
> > stealth?
>
> ..theft, not stealth. Google those 2. ;o)
>
> > Infrastructure redundancy protects you against hardware
> > failure, not legal or bureaucratic events.
>
> ..that's your narrow view. Real infrastructure redundancy means
> setting up at least 2 fully independent web sites with at least
> 2 competing independent web hotels mirroring each other,
Web hosts, not hotels. Google those 2. ;o)
> and feed
> them content over rsync, scp etc from a master server on e.g. a
> cell phone.
As I already said, this does nothing against theft of documents or
the allegedly illegal transfer of an Internet domain name or hijack of a DNS
record.
> ..in our case, problem was time and funding to litigate the control
> of such legal or bureaucratic events. 4 hours before the "primary"
> ballot filing deadline, we were told we needed "5000 signatures" to
> file, truth is 500, we mobilized and got over 12,000 approved, despite
> having inch thick piles of signature sheets stolen from the 2 major
> Statoil gas stations south of Stavanger on Feb 28'th 2001.
Infrastructure redundancy does not protect you against such events, too.
All of these events in fact involved non ICT infrastructures.
> ..from then on, it was all sabotage, I took over as webmaster in late
> July/early August, and without said infrastructure control, we wound
> up with 688 votes.
Alessandro
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] ..waaay OT: Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive
On Sun, 20 May 2018 10:45:08 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message
<20180520104459.1daedf5d@ayu.localdomain>:
> On Sat, 19 May 2018 20:49:45 +0200
> Arnt Karlsen ha wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 19 May 2018 16:57:07 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message
> > <20180519165707.504d5c33@ayu.localdomain>:
> >
> > > On Sat, 19 May 2018 at 16:42:49 +0200
> > > Arnt Karlsen wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sat, 19 May 2018 04:25:53 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message
> > > > <20180519042553.7ba51256@ayu.localdomain>:
> > > >
> > > >>> {headdesk}
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I really don't think it's that difficult to understand that
> > > >>> avoiding outsourcing in no way precludes appropriate fallbacks
> > > >>> and measures to eliminate SPoFs. I'm frankly quite puzzled
> > > >>> that my mentioning (as an example) GitLab elicited the
> > > >>> comment 'This wouldn't have helped [because] you need
> > > >>> redundancy' -- when I nowhere suggested eschewing redundancy
> > > >>> and when that open source project has a mountain of
> > > >>> documentation on that very subject. And I'm puzzled a second
> > > >>> time to see you ignore my having just pointed that out, as if
> > > >>> I hadn't.
> > > >>
> > > >> You need redundancy in repository's admins, not on
> > > >> infrastructure.
> > > >
> > > > ..you need both, IME. 17 years ago, I was the final lawful
> > > > webmaster at fmb.no, our domain docs were stolen by
> > > > https://www.frp.no/ people.
> > >
> > > Humm, how can infrastructure redundancy protect against document
> > > stealth?
> >
> > ..theft, not stealth. Google those 2. ;o)
> >
> > > Infrastructure redundancy protects you against hardware
> > > failure, not legal or bureaucratic events.
> >
> > ..that's your narrow view. Real infrastructure redundancy means
> > setting up at least 2 fully independent web sites with at least
> > 2 competing independent web hotels mirroring each other,
>
> Web hosts, not hotels. Google those 2. ;o)
..hosts, if you wanna do all the work yourself. Hotels, if you want
money back on their failure to deliver 24/7/365 service.
> > and feed
> > them content over rsync, scp etc from a master server on e.g. a
> > cell phone.
>
> As I already said, this does nothing against theft of documents or
> the allegedly illegal transfer of an Internet domain name or hijack
> of a DNS record.
..precisely why you want _full_ infrastructure redundancy, without
any "single point of failure capable of bringing down everything."
> > ..in our case, problem was time and funding to litigate the control
> > of such legal or bureaucratic events. 4 hours before the "primary"
> > ballot filing deadline, we were told we needed "5000 signatures" to
> > file, truth is 500, we mobilized and got over 12,000 approved,
> > despite having inch thick piles of signature sheets stolen from the
> > 2 major Statoil gas stations south of Stavanger on Feb 28'th 2001.
>
> Infrastructure redundancy does not protect you against such events,
> too. All of these events in fact involved non ICT infrastructures.
..full infrastructure redundancy helps, in our case we had a
local radio station help us mobilize the ballot signatories.
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive
On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 05:44:08PM +0100, KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:17:58PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Thu, 17 May 2018 11:16:50 +0100 > > KatolaZ wrote: > > > > > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/16/contributing_to_keep_small_linux_alive/ > > > > > > Very interesting piece on the importance of contributing to keep alive > > > your favourite distro. Well, Devuan is mentioned in the article among > > > the "larger" distros, but the reasoning still applies to us I think. > > > > Wait a minute. Contributing is the minor message of the referenced > > link. The major message is that the Void Project Leader has apparently > > disappeared, as described here: > > > > https://www.voidlinux.eu/news/2018/05/serious-issues.html > > > > The voidlinux.eu domain is currently at risk, as is Github, and maybe > > the Void IRC channels. > > > > What can we Void users do to help, during these challenging days? > > > > You should probably ask that question to the Void developers :-) > > We actually reached out on the Void IRC channel a few days ago, saying > that we would be happy to help if needed. I got a pm reply from > Gottox, who said that their main problem at the moment seems to be > re-acquiring access to the github account that contains all the > packages. Unfortunately there is little we can do on that front, but I > really hope that they will find a way and continue with the > development ASAP. So the github account isn't even publicly *readable*? -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ..waaay OT: Is Void OK? Was: Keep it alive
On Sun, 20 May 2018 at 13:06:45 +0200 Arnt Karlsen wrote: > On Sun, 20 May 2018 10:45:08 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message > <20180520104459.1daedf5d@ayu.localdomain>: > >> On Sat, 19 May 2018 20:49:45 +0200 >> Arnt Karlsen ha wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 19 May 2018 16:57:07 +0200, Alessandro wrote in message >>> <20180519165707.504d5c33@ayu.localdomain>: >>> On Sat, 19 May 2018 at 16:42:49 +0200 Arnt Karlsen wrote: [...] >>> and feed >>> them content over rsync, scp etc from a master server on e.g. a >>> cell phone. >> >> As I already said, this does nothing against theft of documents or >> the allegedly illegal transfer of an Internet domain name or hijack >> of a DNS record. > > ..precisely why you want _full_ infrastructure redundancy, without > any "single point of failure capable of bringing down everything." Then you must mean something different from ICT infrastructure. >>> ..in our case, problem was time and funding to litigate the control >>> of such legal or bureaucratic events. 4 hours before the "primary" >>> ballot filing deadline, we were told we needed "5000 signatures" to >>> file, truth is 500, we mobilized and got over 12,000 approved, >>> despite having inch thick piles of signature sheets stolen from the >>> 2 major Statoil gas stations south of Stavanger on Feb 28'th 2001. >> >> Infrastructure redundancy does not protect you against such events, >> too. All of these events in fact involved non ICT infrastructures. > > ..full infrastructure redundancy helps, in our case we had a > local radio station help us mobilize the ballot signatories. Unless you mean an Internet radio or a software-defined radio that are part of the organization then this is not ICT infrastructure redundandy, unless you refer to a personal, custom definition of what an ICT infrastructure is: http://www.itinfo.am/eng/information-technology-infrastructure-library-guide/ ITIL Version 2 7. ICT Infrastructure Management https://www.teamquest.com/en/resources/resource_center/articles/itil-information/version2/ict-infrastructure-management/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] LibreOffice removed with autoremove
Running ascii. Did update then autoremove. Did not look close enough at the packages being removed. Libreoffice was one package removed. It will not install. Going down through the dependencies that will not install, I arrived at this: The following packages have unmet dependencies: libpython3.5 : Depends: libpython3.5-stdlib (= 3.5.3-1) but 3.5.3-3 is to be installed E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. 3.5.3-3 is showing installed. Suggestions? Thanks, Vernon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] LibreOffice removed with autoremove
> On 21 May 2018, at 04:20, Vernon Geiszler wrote: > > Running ascii. Did update then autoremove. Did not look close enough > at the packages being removed. Libreoffice was one package removed. > It will not install. Going down through the dependencies that will > not install, I arrived at this: > > The following packages have unmet dependencies: > libpython3.5 : Depends: libpython3.5-stdlib (= 3.5.3-1) but 3.5.3-3 > is to be installed > E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. > > > 3.5.3-3 is showing installed. > > Suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Vernon I can only see 3.5.3-1 in the archive. Do you have other third-party repos enabled? What’s the output of “apt-cache policy libpython3.5-stdlib”? —Tom ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] LibreOffice removed with autoremove
> On 21 May 2018, at 10:08, wirelessd...@gmail.com wrote: > > >> On 21 May 2018, at 04:20, Vernon Geiszler wrote: >> >> Running ascii. Did update then autoremove. Did not look close enough >> at the packages being removed. Libreoffice was one package removed. >> It will not install. Going down through the dependencies that will >> not install, I arrived at this: >> >> The following packages have unmet dependencies: >> libpython3.5 : Depends: libpython3.5-stdlib (= 3.5.3-1) but 3.5.3-3 >> is to be installed >> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. >> >> >> 3.5.3-3 is showing installed. >> >> Suggestions? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Vernon > > I can only see 3.5.3-1 in the archive. Do you have other third-party repos > enabled? > > What’s the output of “apt-cache policy libpython3.5-stdlib”? > > —Tom I should also note that I have had no problems installing libreoffice 6.0.4~rc1-4~bpo9+2 from ascii-backports. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] LibreOffice removed with autoremove
On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 5:44 PM, wrote: > >> On 21 May 2018, at 10:08, wirelessd...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >>> On 21 May 2018, at 04:20, Vernon Geiszler wrote: >>> >>> Running ascii. Did update then autoremove. Did not look close enough >>> at the packages being removed. Libreoffice was one package removed. >>> It will not install. Going down through the dependencies that will >>> not install, I arrived at this: >>> >>> The following packages have unmet dependencies: >>> libpython3.5 : Depends: libpython3.5-stdlib (= 3.5.3-1) but 3.5.3-3 >>> is to be installed >>> E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. >>> >>> >>> 3.5.3-3 is showing installed. >>> >>> Suggestions? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Vernon >> >> I can only see 3.5.3-1 in the archive. Do you have other third-party repos >> enabled? >> >> What’s the output of “apt-cache policy libpython3.5-stdlib”? >> >> —Tom > > I should also note that I have had no problems installing libreoffice > 6.0.4~rc1-4~bpo9+2 from ascii-backports. This is the output from apt-cache policy: libpython3.5-stdlib: Installed: 3.5.3-3 Candidate: 3.5.3-3 Version table: *** 3.5.3-3 100 100 /var/lib/dpkg/status 3.5.3-1 500 500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages 500 http://packages.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages I have never used backports before. I will have to search the archives or the forum for how to do it. Vernon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] LibreOffice removed with autoremove
> On 21 May 2018, at 13:35, Vernon Geiszler wrote: > > This is the output from apt-cache policy: > > libpython3.5-stdlib: > Installed: 3.5.3-3 > Candidate: 3.5.3-3 > Version table: > *** 3.5.3-3 100 >100 /var/lib/dpkg/status > 3.5.3-1 500 >500 http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages >500 http://packages.devuan.org/merged ascii/main amd64 Packages > > I have never used backports before. I will have to search the > archives or the forum for how to do it. > > Vernon I can’t see that specific package version in the repository. Did you have any other non-devuan apt sources enabled at any point previously? Is there any relevant information in the output of “aptitude why libpython3.5-stdlib”? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
