[DNG] Dynamic MOTD
Hi, I have several headless systems running Devuan Jessie, which I migrated from Debian Jessie following this guide: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-to-Devuan I placed scripts in /etc/update-motd.d and they work fine. Now I installed devuan_jessie_1.0.0_armhf_raspi2.img on a Raspberry PI 2 and placed the same files in /etc/update-motd.d, but they are not executed at login through ssh. I compared /etc/pam.d/sshd with my other systems, but cannot find any difference. libpam-modules is installed. /etc/pam.d/sshd contains: sessionoptional pam_motd.so motd=/run/motd.dynamic sessionoptional pam_motd.so noupdate I also tried it without the "noupdate", but that makes no difference. Any ideas what's wrong with this Raspberry PI image? Jochen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan in the German Wikipedia
dear Michael, On Tue, 19 Dec 2017, Michael Siegel wrote: > 1. > The intro paragraph says: > "Erklärtes Ziel ist es, nicht den umstrittenen systemd-Dienst als > 'init'-Prozess fest vorzugeben, sondern die Wahl des init-Prozesses dem > Anwender zu überlassen und ein möglichst breites Spektrum an > init-Systemen zu unterstützen wie es auch in Debian möglich ist.[2]" > > That translates to: "The stated aim is not to prescribe the > controversial systemd service as the 'init' system, but leave the choice > of the init system to the user and to support a preferably wide range of > init systems like it is also possible in Debian.[2]" > > Question: How does Debian support a wide range of init systems? Even the > claim that supporting a variety of init systems is possible with Debian > is at least a half-truth if you take into account what it takes to not > use systemd. > > The source cited in the footnote is https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom. > That web page, however, doesn't state it as Devuan's aim to support a > preferably wide range of init systems, but rather to "restor[e] a sane > approach to PID1". And, of course, it doesn't claim Debian was able to > support a variety of init systems. It actually states the opposite, stating: > "While Debian claims that 'Systemd is becoming the de facto standard > init system for Linux', a number of GNU/Linux distributions, some new, > beg to differ. While Debian claims that 'It is better than existing > alternatives for all of Debian's current use cases', these rebel > GNU/Linux distributions refuse this one-size-fits-all vision of the *nix > world that breaks portability, ignores backwards compatibility, and > replaces existing services, forcing systemd into adoption." > > The sentence that follows the one quoted above makes things even worse: > "Im Gegensatz zu Debian entfernt Devuan allerdings die Unterstützung für > systemd." > > Translated: "But contrary to Debian, Devuan removes support for systemd." > > To sum up: Devuan doesn't want to enforece systemd onto its users but > leave them a choice and support a variety of init systems. But that is > also possible with Debian. Only Devuan removes support for systemd. > > That's not exactly right, is it? I believe this is correct and in line with our proposition. As a matter of fact we are fixing init packages that do not work in Debian, for instance OpenRC, nothwithstanding sysvinit stays the default, also in ASCII. > 2. > A few paragraphs later, the article claims that Devuan was also aiming > to "make it possible" to use systemd, provided its integration won't > collide with other init systems or create incompatibilities: "Auch > systemd soll ermöglicht werden, sofern die Integration ohne Kollision > mit anderen init-Systemen oder Inkompatibilitäten möglich ist.[2]" > > What did that footnote point to again? Right, > https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom . > > Now, that is an obvious mismatch. No, this is correct too. If systemd would be only an init we'd be fine with it. Also please note our problem is specifically with Debian where a weak and manipulated majority has unresponsibly taken over and decided to impose systemd to everyone, disregarding what the users were asking and in fact violating its social contract. I explain this in the video linked from that page. > 3. > "Das in systemd integrierte udev wird durch gudev ersetzt." > > "Udev, which has been integrated into systemd, is being replaced by gudev." > > That was actually claimed by someone on pro-linux.de in December 2016 > (http://www.pro-linux.de/news/1/24234/devuan-ver%C3%83%C2%B6ffentlicht-beta-2.html) > – for no discernable reason. this is not correct. It is being replaced by eudev and there are experiments also to support vdev as an option. > 4. > "Die mit Langzeitunterstützung ausgestattete Distribution richtet sich > besonders an gewerbliche Anwender." > > Roughly: "The long-term support release [jessie] is especially targeted > at commerical users." > > I doubt that is true. yes, this is no true as you say. Devuan is a universal distribution. Also we may consider ourselves to be all 'participants' in it, rather than differentiate between 'users' and 'developers', since many of those of use who can be considered developers are actually using Devuan. This is OT, but AFAIK many Debian developers simply use OSX, so... the main difference I believe should be between people who rely on our OS and those who don't. > 5. > Maybe someone should provide a screen shot of a Devuan Jessie desktop > with Xfce in place. Golinux is the best one to do that. Many thanks for your attention to details! ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Debian Devs using OSx? was Devuan in the German Wikipedia
On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 10:23:31 +0100 Jaromil wrote: > yes, this is no true as you say. Devuan is a universal > distribution. Also we may consider ourselves to be all 'participants' > in it, rather than differentiate between 'users' and 'developers', > since many of those of use who can be considered developers are > actually using Devuan. This is OT, but AFAIK many Debian developers > simply use OSX, Jaromil, how can you possibly know this? If true, this is a damning condemnation of the "DDs", especially given the systemd forcefeed. But it's very hard for me to believe that people would work so hard to produce something they don't even use. I can't imagine their motivation. And logistically, how do they experiment with and debug Linux code on a Mac? Are they using a Linux VM guest for this work? Is there evidence somewhere that Debian DDs use OS/x? Thanks, SteveT Steve Litt December 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan in the German Wikipedia
Am 19.12.2017 um 10:23 schrieb Jaromil: > > dear Michael, > > On Tue, 19 Dec 2017, Michael Siegel wrote: > >> 1. >> The intro paragraph says: >> "Erklärtes Ziel ist es, nicht den umstrittenen systemd-Dienst als >> 'init'-Prozess fest vorzugeben, sondern die Wahl des init-Prozesses dem >> Anwender zu überlassen und ein möglichst breites Spektrum an >> init-Systemen zu unterstützen wie es auch in Debian möglich ist.[2]" >> >> That translates to: "The stated aim is not to prescribe the >> controversial systemd service as the 'init' system, but leave the choice >> of the init system to the user and to support a preferably wide range of >> init systems like it is also possible in Debian.[2]" >> >> Question: How does Debian support a wide range of init systems? Even the >> claim that supporting a variety of init systems is possible with Debian >> is at least a half-truth if you take into account what it takes to not >> use systemd. >> >> The source cited in the footnote is https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom. >> That web page, however, doesn't state it as Devuan's aim to support a >> preferably wide range of init systems, but rather to "restor[e] a sane >> approach to PID1". And, of course, it doesn't claim Debian was able to >> support a variety of init systems. It actually states the opposite, stating: >> "While Debian claims that 'Systemd is becoming the de facto standard >> init system for Linux', a number of GNU/Linux distributions, some new, >> beg to differ. While Debian claims that 'It is better than existing >> alternatives for all of Debian's current use cases', these rebel >> GNU/Linux distributions refuse this one-size-fits-all vision of the *nix >> world that breaks portability, ignores backwards compatibility, and >> replaces existing services, forcing systemd into adoption." >> >> The sentence that follows the one quoted above makes things even worse: >> "Im Gegensatz zu Debian entfernt Devuan allerdings die Unterstützung für >> systemd." >> >> Translated: "But contrary to Debian, Devuan removes support for systemd." >> >> To sum up: Devuan doesn't want to enforece systemd onto its users but >> leave them a choice and support a variety of init systems. But that is >> also possible with Debian. Only Devuan removes support for systemd. >> >> That's not exactly right, is it? > > I believe this is correct and in line with our proposition. As a > matter of fact we are fixing init packages that do not work in Debian, > for instance OpenRC, nothwithstanding sysvinit stays the default, also > in ASCII. The point I was trying to make there, was that the way the article states those facts is misleading, not that they are actually untrue. It just really provokes the question "So, why use Devuan at all?" in kind of a strange way. And as a whole, it gives a wrong impression of what Devuan is. Could you or someone else maybe comment on the above in more detail, especially on the question of support and choice of init systems in Debian? I have now watched the video linked on https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom and found that talking about Debian's way of packaging OpenRC at the end of your presentation, you actually give an example of Debian making it hard to use other init systems. As I understand it, Debian making it hard to use anything else than systemd is actually the main reason for Devuan's existence. >> 2. >> A few paragraphs later, the article claims that Devuan was also aiming >> to "make it possible" to use systemd, provided its integration won't >> collide with other init systems or create incompatibilities: "Auch >> systemd soll ermöglicht werden, sofern die Integration ohne Kollision >> mit anderen init-Systemen oder Inkompatibilitäten möglich ist.[2]" >> >> What did that footnote point to again? Right, >> https://devuan.org/os/init-freedom . >> >> Now, that is an obvious mismatch. > > No, this is correct too. If systemd would be only an init we'd be fine > with it. Also please note our problem is specifically with Debian > where a weak and manipulated majority has unresponsibly taken over and > decided to impose systemd to everyone, disregarding what the users > were asking and in fact violating its social contract. > > I explain this in the video linked from that page. I see. The article should better cite that video directly whenever it draws on your presentation at FSCONS. Also, systemd restricting itself to only being an init system seems to go fundamentally against its design principles which in turn makes inclusion into Devuan very unlikely, doesn't it? [snip] >> 5. >> Maybe someone should provide a screen shot of a Devuan Jessie desktop >> with Xfce in place. > > Golinux is the best one to do that. Right. I'll ask her. > Many thanks for your attention to details! Thanks for your reply! Best, msi ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Dynamic MOTD
On 19-12-17 10:09, J. Fahrner wrote: Hi, I have several headless systems running Devuan Jessie, which I migrated from Debian Jessie following this guide: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-to-Devuan I placed scripts in /etc/update-motd.d and they work fine. Now I installed devuan_jessie_1.0.0_armhf_raspi2.img on a Raspberry PI 2 and placed the same files in /etc/update-motd.d, but they are not executed at login through ssh. I compared /etc/pam.d/sshd with my other systems, but cannot find any difference. libpam-modules is installed. /etc/pam.d/sshd contains: session optional pam_motd.so motd=/run/motd.dynamic session optional pam_motd.so noupdate I also tried it without the "noupdate", but that makes no difference. Any ideas what's wrong with this Raspberry PI image? Jochen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Hopefully this link can help you further https://ownyourbits.com/2017/04/05/customize-your-motd-login-message-in-debian-and-ubuntu/ Grtz Nick ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Dynamic MOTD
Am 2017-12-19 19:00, schrieb info at smallinnovations dot nl: Hopefully this link can help you further https://ownyourbits.com/2017/04/05/customize-your-motd-login-message-in-debian-and-ubuntu/ I already tried all these hints, google find's a lot of them, but no one worked. I solved it the following way: installed Raspbian Jessie, then migrated to Devuan Jessie. Now dynamic motd works like it should. The Devuan Raspberry Image is broken in some way. Jochen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debian Devs using OSx? was Devuan in the German Wikipedia
On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:00:50PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 10:23:31 +0100 > Jaromil wrote: > > > yes, this is no true as you say. Devuan is a universal > > distribution. Also we may consider ourselves to be all 'participants' > > in it, rather than differentiate between 'users' and 'developers', > > since many of those of use who can be considered developers are > > actually using Devuan. This is OT, but AFAIK many Debian developers > > simply use OSX, > > Jaromil, how can you possibly know this? If true, this is a damning > condemnation of the "DDs", especially given the systemd forcefeed. But > it's very hard for me to believe that people would work so hard to > produce something they don't even use. I can't imagine their > motivation. And logistically, how do they experiment with and debug > Linux code on a Mac? Are they using a Linux VM guest for this work? > > Is there evidence somewhere that Debian DDs use OS/x? I have no evidence, but it's not implausible if developing Debian is their job. -- hendrik > > Thanks, > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > December 2017 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times > http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debian Devs using OSx? was Devuan in the German Wikipedia
On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 02:17:00PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 12:00:50PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Dec 2017 10:23:31 +0100 > > Jaromil wrote: > > > > > This is OT, but AFAIK many Debian developers simply use OSX, > > > > Jaromil, how can you possibly know this? If true, this is a damning > > condemnation of the "DDs", especially given the systemd forcefeed. But > > it's very hard for me to believe that people would work so hard to > > produce something they don't even use. I can't imagine their > > motivation. And logistically, how do they experiment with and debug > > Linux code on a Mac? Are they using a Linux VM guest for this work? > > > > Is there evidence somewhere that Debian DDs use OS/x? > > I have no evidence, but it's not implausible if developing > Debian is their job. For people working on server or web crap, that's reasonable (besides the unreasonability of using OS X in general): a good part of server Debian users connect from Windows or Fruits, developers doing so wouldn't make me bat an eye. Note that they _do_ use what they produce. For arm stuff, unplausible as even for cross toolchains, everything is heavily married to Linux hosts. For client and GUI stuff, it'd be newsworthy. If you don't even use your own product, you're bound to produce utter unusable crap. See: Miguel de Icaza. Meow! -- // If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory prices. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debian Devs using OSx? was Devuan in the German Wikipedia
On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 11:11:24PM +0100, Adam Borowski wrote: > On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 02:17:00PM -0500, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > Is there evidence somewhere that Debian DDs use OS/x? > > > > I have no evidence, but it's not implausible if developing > > Debian is their job. > > For people working on server or web crap, that's reasonable (besides the > unreasonability of using OS X in general): a good part of server Debian > users connect from Windows or Fruits, developers doing so wouldn't make me > bat an eye. Note that they _do_ use what they produce. > > For arm stuff, unplausible as even for cross toolchains, everything is > heavily married to Linux hosts. > > For client and GUI stuff, it'd be newsworthy. If you don't even use your > own product, you're bound to produce utter unusable crap. See: Miguel de > Icaza. Just so my point is not understood as generic Gnome bashing: Recently, I've talked with a doctor's assistant, who complained about downsides of software she had to use (for entering patients' data, etc). It was obvious to me that anyone even bothering to try basic functionality would notice that the software is uncomfortable to use -- likewise, listening to the users' complaints would also identify those flaws. Yet whoever made that system was not only paid by a check list, but also had no heed at all to user feedback. Or, a car analogy: if you're an engineer designing a car's interior, not using the car in question means you'll miss even trivially noticeable usability flaws. While a programmer is not going to sit filing things for a doctor, authors of a desktop environment don't have this excuse. Just a single example: the vast majority of current users of Linux desktops do technical work (even if just as web developers), this usually goes from command line. Thus, the top used functionality is "start a terminal". Now, see how many steps do you need to do so in Gnome (someone please correct me if there's a faster way I missed). On the other way, it's a single click in XFCE, a special-cased top-level menu entry in Gnustep and Unity, etc. Meow! -- // If you believe in so-called "intellectual property", please immediately // cease using counterfeit alphabets. Instead, contact the nearest temple // of Amon, whose priests will provide you with scribal services for all // your writing needs, for Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory prices. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Debian Devs using OSx? was Devuan in the German Wikipedia
* On 2017 19 Dec 16:12 -0600, Adam Borowski wrote: > For people working on server or web crap, that's reasonable (besides the > unreasonability of using OS X in general): a good part of server Debian > users connect from Windows or Fruits, developers doing so wouldn't make me > bat an eye. Note that they _do_ use what they produce. > > For arm stuff, unplausible as even for cross toolchains, everything is > heavily married to Linux hosts. > > For client and GUI stuff, it'd be newsworthy. If you don't even use your > own product, you're bound to produce utter unusable crap. See: Miguel de > Icaza. Perhaps not DDs explicitly, but there are videos out there at *Linux* conferences where some developer opens their Mac laptop and proceeds to switch to the VM running $LINUX_DISTRIBUTION (probably Red Hat). There were plenty of blog posts years ago from "Linux" devs in love with their Macbook. It was a rather embarrassing thing to observe. - Nate -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
