Re: [DNG] noatime by default
El 27/08/17 a les 20:53, John Franklin ha escrit: > On Sat, 2017-08-26 at 16:14 +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: >> On Thu, 24 Aug 2017 at 01:03:10 +0200 >> Adam Borowski wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> I'd like to recommend another improvement: let's make the installer >>> default >>> to noatime for fstab it creates. >> >> >> I agree. > > I don't. Adding noatime by default will break some software that > relies on atime, in particular mutt and popcon. Keeping relatime is > sufficient. > > https://blog.valerieaurora.org/2009/03/27/relatime-recap/ > > jf > Does anybody know some way to configure an already installed system to mount points with noatime by default? I'm specially interested for USB pendrives, that are automatically mounted in a desktop environment. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
Narcis Garcia writes: Does anybody know some way to configure an already installed system to mount points with noatime by default? Edit /etc/fstab. I'm specially interested for USB pendrives, that are automatically mounted in a desktop environment. USB drives generally use some sort of windowsy file system that doesn't support atime at all. Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
El 28/08/17 a les 10:48, Arnt Gulbrandsen ha escrit: > Narcis Garcia writes: >> Does anybody know some way to configure an already installed system to >> mount points with noatime by default? > > Edit /etc/fstab. > >> I'm specially interested for USB pendrives, that are automatically >> mounted in a desktop environment. > > USB drives generally use some sort of windowsy file system that doesn't > support atime at all. > > Arnt > USB drives use filesystem as were formatted. When they are formatted in ext4, support atime. I was asking for a method to set noatime by default. Is udev/eudev triggering program involved for USB cases? And when user clics over a not mounted device through file manager? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 at 17:18:28 -0500 d_pridge wrote: > Doesn't this affect the expected lifetime for an SSD? Little. AFAIK this used to be a more serious concern on the first generation of SSDs, because they suffered strongly from write-wear and because firmware, drivers and filesystems did not support write-levelling. Today this is much less of a concern. SSD cells can stand many more write operations before wearing (not so so called 3D SSD units, however) and unit's firmware today apply algorithms to write operations that attempt to spread writes as evenly as possible to cells avoiding impinging too many times on the same ones. Which means that, even if you're writing several times on the same filesystem's blocks (e.g., the FS's log on a journalled FS), these blocks are mapped to cells spread here and there on the SSD that are generally different from write operation to another, transparently to the filesystem's driver and block allocator. Plus, SSD-aware filesystems (designed, among other things, to reduce the impact of write amplification of cells being rewritten) further help prolonging the unit's life, regardless of how it is used. Alessandro ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] noatime by default
Defaults can be changed after installation. Why are some insisting that the installer does that for them? Why must noatime be a default? Some programs require noatime which means this will break them. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What does Linus do?
On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 at 19:23:11 -0400 Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 12:05:56AM +0200, Alessandro Selli wrote: >> >> This idea does has some merit, but it cannot always prevent the >> necessity to reconfigure a system's networking due to a hardware change >> and to a sysadmin's specific needs; sometimes a cars with NIC >> 0b:45:81:f4:3e:01 is to be en1, sometimes a never-before-seen card needs >> to be given the same name. How is the system supposed to know? It >> cannot, the sysadmin will still need to adjust thing by hand according to >> what it's needed in the specific circumstances. I'd like a system that >> was as simple as possible to configure and maintain that made this >> renaming as straightforward as possible, not as complicated ad udev rules >> are. > > Do I understand you ccorrectly: that the udev rules are flexible > enough to do the right thing, but they are too hard to use? Yes. On some occations I had to find out where in /sys a device had it's control and attribute directory (not easy at all to a newbie) and then run a command such as: # udevadm info --attribute-walk /sys/devices/pci\:00/\:00\:1a.0/usb1/ to get a long list of attributes to select from when building my own rule that isolated a single device. And I remember in a few occasions my old rules stopped working and I had to redo them to reflect a change in rules syntax that was introduced from a udev's version onwards. And I could not have udev run a command at device hot-plug. Too cumbersome and little intuitive. And not well documented, at least at the time (a few years ago). Alessandro ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
Narcis Garcia writes: USB drives use filesystem as were formatted. When they are formatted in ext4, support atime. Indeed. I assumed you meant USB drives generally, not ones restricted to work only with linux. Sorry. I was asking for a method to set noatime by default. Is udev/eudev triggering program involved for USB cases? It depends. Neither my laptop nor my desktop do at the moment (devuan/kde and oldishubuntu/kde), but I'm sure there are linux variants that do. And when user clics over a not mounted device through file manager? Not with the files manager I have installed and hardly ever use, but I'm sure there exists either one that does or that has been forked to do it, so try yours ;) The only relevant option I see is whether to automount none, previously known or all sticks. Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
If you want to do it it can be done, though. You can intercept the mount system call using LD_PRELOAD and about 10 lines of C, or you can write an /etc/fstab line for /mnt that specifies noatime and your usual USB device (perhaps sdb1, YMMV). If you write the fstab line at least "sudo mount /mnt" will mount with noatime, and you can write something udevish that runs mount and does it the way you want it. Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
El 28/08/17 a les 11:59, Alessandro Selli ha escrit: > On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 at 17:18:28 -0500 > d_pridge wrote: > >> Doesn't this affect the expected lifetime for an SSD? > > Little. AFAIK this used to be a more serious concern on the first > generation of SSDs, because they suffered strongly from write-wear and > because firmware, drivers and filesystems did not support write-levelling. > Today this is much less of a concern. SSD cells can stand many more write > operations before wearing (not so so called 3D SSD units, however) and unit's > firmware today apply algorithms to write operations that attempt to spread > writes as evenly as possible to cells avoiding impinging too many times on > the same ones. Which means that, even if you're writing several times on the > same filesystem's blocks (e.g., the FS's log on a journalled FS), these > blocks are mapped to cells spread here and there on the SSD that are generally > different from write operation to another, transparently to the filesystem's > driver and block allocator. Plus, SSD-aware filesystems (designed, among > other things, to reduce the impact of write amplification of cells being > rewritten) further help prolonging the unit's life, regardless of how it is > used. > "SSD-aware filesystems" are flesystems mounted with no atime ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
El 28/08/17 a les 12:47, Arnt Gulbrandsen ha escrit: > If you want to do it it can be done, though. You can intercept the mount > system call using LD_PRELOAD and about 10 lines of C, or you can write > an /etc/fstab line for /mnt that specifies noatime and your usual USB > device (perhaps sdb1, YMMV). If you write the fstab line at least "sudo > mount /mnt" will mount with noatime, and you can write something udevish > that runs mount and does it the way you want it. > Perhaps there is some kernel parameter to change default behavior from boot? I'm not looking a solution for a single installation but for hundreds of my users. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What does Linus do?
Alessandro Selli wrote: >> Do I understand you ccorrectly: that the udev rules are flexible >> enough to do the right thing, but they are too hard to use? > > Yes. On some occations I had to find out where in /sys a device had it's > control and attribute directory (not easy at all to a newbie) and then run a > command such as: > > # udevadm info --attribute-walk /sys/devices/pci\:00/\:00\:1a.0/usb1/ > > to get a long list of attributes to select from when building my own rule > that isolated a single device. Unfortunately here we seem to be hitting the complexity vs flexibility tradeoff. AIUI pretty well all attempts to hide the complexity from the user (or admin) end up making things worse - hence the discussion of getting rid of systemd ! > And I remember in a few occasions my old rules > stopped working and I had to redo them to reflect a change in rules syntax > that was introduced from a udev's version onwards. That's not an issue with the rules per se, that's an issue with developers moving the goalposts and not caring what they break. Hmm, and here we come back to the development style of those in charge of systemd again ! > And I could not have udev run a command at device hot-plug. Too cumbersome > and little intuitive. And not well documented, at least at the time (a few > years ago). I agree they are not easy (certainly doesn't look it), but then the only involvement I've had is letting "the system" create rules for ethn and changing the name to something I want. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
Narcis Garcia writes: Perhaps there is some kernel parameter to change default behavior from boot? I'm not looking a solution for a single installation but for hundreds of my users. If you use puppet or another similar way to deploy to a large set of computers, then you can deploy a suitable udev file and script to all computers easily. In /etc/udev/rules.d, you need a file that matches usb sticks and runs the program. The script can either just mount (and either rely on fstab or supply noatime itself), or it can sleep for ten seconds, then scan for mounted sticks and run mount -o remount,noatime in order to add noatime to any sticks the user mounts on directories other than /mnt. That said, most people use the default file system so as to keep their mac/windows compatibility. How many of those hundreds of users have bothered to reformat their sticks? I suspect this change just isn't worth any effort. Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Lost in grub
Grub seems a lot more complicated now than it used to be a few years ago when I last upgraded Debian from one release to another. My usual procedure is to copy the system to new partitions (adjusting the size according to what I actually guess I might need), editig the copied /etc/fstab, making sure the old and new systems boot properly and mount the right partitions, and then upgrading the new one. That way I have a fallback in case something goes wrong (and in about 1 in 3 upgrades it does). I would edit the boot configuration to make sure the new system was properly represented. But grub seems to have been massively complexified. I suppose I *could* edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg and risk getting overwritten. And, yes, keep a copy in case it *is* overwritten. But what's the recommmended way to do this? -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?
XFCE 4 gives me font type/size configurability. Window Managers do not give me that functionality expecting me to spend hours upon hours ruining my eyes groping in configuration files for the relevant settings. Some people do not have the luxury of a pair of very strong eyes - small fonts are a huge NO GO for them. Even MS Windows, the OS used by most, doesn't allow for people who find small fonts harmful for their eyes. Their solutions are more of an insult rather than a solution. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?
Am 2017-08-28 18:26, schrieb Edward Bartolo: XFCE 4 gives me font type/size configurability. Window Managers do not give me that functionality expecting me to spend hours upon hours ruining my eyes groping in configuration files for the relevant settings. Sure they do! Try Bunsenlabs Linux (https://www.bunsenlabs.org/). Uses Openbox as window manager and nothing else. It's easy to migrate from a Bunsenlabs install to a Devuan base. Jochen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Lost in grub
On 08/28/2017 10:55 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > Grub seems a lot more complicated now than it used to be a few years > ago when I last upgraded Debian from one release to another. > > My usual procedure is to copy the system to new partitions (adjusting > the size according to what I actually guess I might need), > editig the copied /etc/fstab, making sure the old and new systems boot > properly and mount the right partitions, and then upgrading the new > one. Copy the system to the new partition. Edit fstab in the new partition. Boot into the new partition from grub command line. Type 'c' at the boot menu to get a grub prompt. Example: (Edit as needed. Drives count from zero, partitions count from one.) set root=(hd0,msdos3) linux /vmlinuz ro root=/dev/sda3 initrd /initrd.img boot Then when you're in the new system, run grub-install /dev/sda update-grub This will put the system on the new partition in charge of booting and will generat a new menu. It should also make a boot entry for the old system. fsmithred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Lost in grub
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 01:51:34PM -0400, fsmithred wrote: > On 08/28/2017 10:55 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > Grub seems a lot more complicated now than it used to be a few years > > ago when I last upgraded Debian from one release to another. > > > > My usual procedure is to copy the system to new partitions (adjusting > > the size according to what I actually guess I might need), > > editig the copied /etc/fstab, making sure the old and new systems boot > > properly and mount the right partitions, and then upgrading the new > > one. > > Copy the system to the new partition. > Edit fstab in the new partition. > Boot into the new partition from grub command line. > Type 'c' at the boot menu to get a grub prompt. > Example: (Edit as needed. Drives count from zero, partitions count from one.) > set root=(hd0,msdos3) > linux /vmlinuz ro root=/dev/sda3 > initrd /initrd.img > boot > > Then when you're in the new system, run > grub-install /dev/sda > update-grub > > This will put the system on the new partition in charge of booting and > will generat a new menu. It should also make a boot entry for the > old system. Do I understand correctly that grub-install will scan my only hard drive looking for (at least) bootable Linux systems? And that as a result, running grub-install on the old system will detect both and create a grub menu that contains both? (of course, using the grub files on the old system, which I'd better not delete if I still want to boot) -- hendrik > > fsmithred > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Lost in grub
Hendrik Boom wrote: > Do I understand correctly that grub-install will scan my only hard > drive looking for (at least) bootable Linux systems? And that as a > result, running grub-install on the old system will detect both and > create a grub menu that contains both? > > (of course, using the grub files on the old system, which I'd better > not delete if I still want to boot) grub-install will install the first stage. update-grub will update the grub menu, and depending on how you've set options, it will scan all filesystems looking for OSs to put in the menu. So one option would be to copy your files, then update-grub to add the newly copied version to the grub menu. That would allow you to boot into your new copy, after which you could run update-grub again to correctly set the menu for that system. There is a slight complication though - where you have multiple systems on one physical drive, I'm not sure how grub gets to select which set of files to use. My guess is that the location of the filesystem containing the files is hardcoded into the first stage when it's installed. Alternatively, try http://www.supergrubdisk.org and save a lot of hassle ! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Lost in grub
And the other option is to chroot and update/install grub from there (not mine, just copied from another list) : mkdir /sysroot mount /dev/your-root-dev /sysroot mount /dev/your-boot-dev /sysroot/boot mount --bind /dev /sysroot/dev mount --bind /sys /sysroot/sys mount --bind /proc /sysroot/proc mount --bind /run /sysroot/run (recommended if you are using systemd) chroot /sysroot grub-install /dev/your-grub-boot-device (may be grub2-install on some distro) This is geared to installing on another disk, but should work just the same with multiple OSs on one disk. (/run left in for completeness) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE
On 28/08/17 01:03, Steve Litt wrote: On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 06:51:24 +0100 Dave Turner wrote: I have a working devuan ascii with no systemd no dbus no udev and no pulseaudio on my old iMac. (no X11 either, but we'll come to that) Very nice! I installed eudev Did you install eudev simply by apt-get install udev? Were there any other steps? and then I deleted /etc/init.d/udev and rebooted. This means that udev won't run on boot. Did /etc/init.d/eudev exist, or did you just not have a daemon? [snip] For sound I installed flac, alsa-utils, and the ncurses media player moc. alsa-utils includes alsa-mixer and that let me un-mute the sound. And it works! I think the docs on alsa and sound on linux have become divorced from reality over the years, I know how to read and follow instructions, I should have been able to do this years ago. I had to do it by trial and error! Dave, a cool move on your part would be to document exactly how you did the setup described in the preceding paragraph. Until Devuan gets their documentation act together, I'd suggest publishing your documentation on a website controlled by you, so that it's permanent. A whole heck of a lot of people want to have a simple, no-nonsense sound setup like you describe. I'm one of them. SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng I have written up most of what I have done. I was thinking that dev1galaxy.org was the best place to put it. The web-browser on my iMac is dillo which is fast and light and nice to use for many things - and utterly useless for other things so Palemoon will be the next install, followed by VLC so I can watch DVDs again. I fully expect my system will get polluted by systemd and probably pulseaudio too, we'll see! DaveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ctwm
On 28/08/17 02:14, Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, Dave Turner mentioned ctwm in the "devuan ascii - how much of systemd is still in there? UPDATE" thread, and because I've failed at every attempt to use twm, I tried ctwm. The package manager installs it like a breeze, but in the tradition of Debian packages, it doesn't work out of the box. First problem: The Debian package forgets to install /usr/share/xsessions/ctwm.desktop, so pressing F1 on the slim login screen doesn't find it. You can't get to ctwmrc using normal methods. Oops. So create the following /usr/share/xsessions/ctwm.desktop : == ## /etc/dm/Sessions/ctwm.desktop ## [Desktop Entry] Name=ctwm Comment=ctwm Exec=/usr/bin/ctwm TryExec=/usr/bin/ctwm Terminal=True Type=Application == Don't ask me what all that gibberish means: I just copied it from lxde.desktop and changed the obvious. Now slim sees and delivers ctwm, so you have a fully functional ctwm, which is one of the most configurable WMDEs around (I have a temporary moritorium on the word GOSFUI). Things look up: You can F1 through slim to get to ctwm, but The menus from clicking the desktop don't work. You navigate to the "Debian" selection, release the left mouse button, and nothing happens. Not to worry, this is a ctwm-ism: When navigating to a an item, you must move the mouse pointer to the right in order to sub-navigate. That little tidbit should be in the README, but now you know. You have a great and functional WMDE. Now that you can navigate the menu system, you notice that dragging all the way right on the "Exit" choice gives you the choice of "No, restart ctwm" or "Yes, really quit". Choosing the former updates your running ctwm to the current ~/.ctwmrc, thereby removing the necessity to go all the way back to slim's mandatory F1 every time you try a new config element. From now on I'll use the phrase "restart twm" for the procedure consisting of "leftclick desktop, navigate to Exit, drag right to the little square, choose "No, restart ctwm". So now you can use the menus. But, oops, you have no way to change your ctwm configuration, because you have no ~/.ctwmrc file. You'll soon fix that: cp /etc/X11/ctwm/system.ctwmrc ~/.ctwmrc Restart ctwm, and cool, you have a perfectly running ctwm. If you only use a mouse... Trouble is, as it ships from the factory, ctwm is extremely keyboarder hostile. Try it and see: No matter what you do with your keyboard, you need to grab your mouse to fix the focus. Given that most lightweight WMDE users are keyboardists, this is a problem. Or not. Edit ~/.ctwmrc after copying it elsewhere, and add the following lines below the list of simple settings like "NoGrabServer" or "GrabServer", "DecorateTransients", the font assignments, etc, add the following lines: == UsePPosition "on" # Help kbd instantiated windows get focus RandomPlacement "on"# Help kbd instantiated windows get focus AutoFocusToTransients # Help kbd instantiated windows get focus SaveWorkspaceFocus # Obviously workspace focus should be retained WindowRing # Enable Alt+Tab type window circulation WarpRingOnScreen# Enable Alt+Tab type window circulation == Now go below all the Button assignments as well as any hotkey assignments, and add the following: == # HOTKEY DMENU Ctrl+Shift+; "semicolon" = s | c : all : f.exec "/home/myuid/bin/dmenu_litt.sh" # HOTKEY defops MENU, HIGHEST LEVEL CTWM MENU "comma" = s | c : all : f.menu "defops" # HOTKEY LIST OF ALL MENUS ON ALL WORKSPACES "period" = s | c : all : f.menu "TwmAllWindows" # NOTE! ALT+TAB CANNOT BE MADE TO WORK. # USE Ctrl+Shift+h and Ctrl+Shift+l instead. "h" = s | c : all : f.warpring "prev" # HOTKEY REV THIS WKSPC WINS "l" = s | c : all : f.warpring "next" # HOTKEY FWD THIS WKSPC WINS "u" = s | c : all : f.menu "TwmWindows" # HOTKEY THIS WKSPACE WIN LIST == In the preceding, dmenu_litt.sh is simply a shellscript that calls dmenu_run in a way that menus vertically instead of horizontally, and displays a readable size font in good contrast colors. See the dmenu man page for the proper arguments to dmenu_run, which simply passes command line arguments to dmenu. Restart ctwm and you have a dmenu-enabled, Shift+Ctrl+h and Shift+Ctrl+l cycling productivity machine. There are other things you can do to make it more keyboarder friendly. Find the name of the context for being in a menu, and in that context alone, hotkey vim keys j,k,h and l to go down one choice, up one choice, plunge into a submenu, and return from submenu, respectively. I didn't find a way to do it, but I bet I could. Bigger kudos if you can find a way to make Alt+Tab work the same as in Fvwm or LXDE, although my Shif
Re: [DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 18:37:00 +0200 "J. Fahrner" wrote: > Am 2017-08-28 18:26, schrieb Edward Bartolo: > > XFCE 4 gives me font type/size configurability. Window Managers do > > not give me that functionality expecting me to spend hours upon > > hours ruining my eyes groping in configuration files for the > > relevant settings. > > Sure they do! Try Bunsenlabs Linux (https://www.bunsenlabs.org/). > Uses Openbox as window manager and nothing else. It's easy to migrate > from a Bunsenlabs install to a Devuan base. > > Jochen Adding to Jochen's post, window manager ctwm enables you to change fonts, by editing them in ~/.ctwmrc. When I worked with Window Manager IceWM, I could also adjust fonts. Bear in mind that with a Window Manager, you can only adjust fonts for the windows, not the applications in side the windows. Those applications are adjustable via the adjuster program for their library: Qt or Gtk. So you have to run the adjuster program from the command line instead of from a magical sequence of mouse clicks, but the result is the same, a great font size for your eyes. I think Edward's real point is the buried shovel, where if only you could see the print, you could enlarge the fonts, and if only you could enlarge the fonts, you could see the screen. As a person with 20/50 corrected vision, I encounter that all the time and bigtime resent these people who default their screen to 9pt type, darkblue on darkgray. As a matter of fact, I blew off Gobo Linux for just that reason. The way I unbury the shovel is the following, assuming graphical Vim is available: * gvim * Edit->select_font, then crank up the size and set it bold. (select_font) is the bottom most on submenu * Now you can see what you're doing. * :e~/.gvimrc * :w~/.gvimrc * :set gfn? * Copy the output of the preceding Vim command * Paste that output into .gvimrc * In the pasted command, place a backslash before every space * Prepend the word "set", followed by a space, into the command * :w Now you always have a right-sized gvim, which helps a whole heck of a lot. Edit the Window Manager's config file so that windows' menu text, title text are the right size for you, and if necessary adjust colors. Restart the Window Manager. By the way, if your visual acuity is below average, a properly configured and integrated dmenu can do you a world of good. Also, there are a lot of font adjustment suggestions in the latter half of the following section: http://troubleshooters.com/lpm/201406/201406.htm#wmde_compensations HTH, SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Lost in grub
GRUB complicated, Nah! If you are using an MBR formatted disk it should be quite easy to tame down GRUB. What I do is keep it tied in a locked cage where it cannot do any harm! Just use a dedicated partition for GRUB. In it install a very minimal Debian or whatever Linux OS, boot it, install GRUB so that you can boot, do an update grub or what is relevant to the version you are using and exit. That way you separate the bootloader from the other operating systems on the same disk or computer. To avoid having to boot the GRUB installation whenever a kernel is upgraded use the root vmlinuz and initrd.img symlinks in grub.cfg. The above is what I do, and I have a really complicated setup with multiple OSs installed on the same disk. Never had trouble with this setup although I have been using it before the advent of GRUB2. I have the Linux-Allergic HP Probook 4540s laptop and still can boot it with the setup described above. I don't want GRUB messing its menu every time there is an update to it. Therefore, I manually edit grub.cfg to get exactly what I want. No shell scripting from hell will stop me from manually editing my bootloader so that I tame it to display text exactly how I want it and in the pricise order I need. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 at 12:58:24 +0200 Narcis Garcia wrote: > El 28/08/17 a les 11:59, Alessandro Selli ha escrit: >> On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 at 17:18:28 -0500 >> d_pridge wrote: >> >>> Doesn't this affect the expected lifetime for an SSD? >> >> Little. AFAIK this used to be a more serious concern on the first >> generation of SSDs, because they suffered strongly from write-wear and >> because firmware, drivers and filesystems did not support write-levelling. >> Today this is much less of a concern. SSD cells can stand many more write >> operations before wearing (not so so called 3D SSD units, however) and >> unit's firmware today apply algorithms to write operations that attempt >> to spread writes as evenly as possible to cells avoiding impinging too >> many times on the same ones. Which means that, even if you're writing >> several times on the same filesystem's blocks (e.g., the FS's log on a >> journalled FS), these blocks are mapped to cells spread here and there on >> the SSD that are generally different from write operation to another, >> transparently to the filesystem's driver and block allocator. Plus, >> SSD-aware filesystems (designed, among other things, to reduce the impact >> of write amplification of cells being rewritten) further help prolonging >> the unit's life, regardless of how it is used. >> > > "SSD-aware filesystems" are flesystems mounted with no atime They do more than that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_file_system Alessandro ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] ctwm
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 20:32:56 +0100 Dave Turner wrote: > A nicely documented ctwmrc file is here:- Very nice! I might investigate using ctwm as my daily driver WMDE instead of Openbox. > > https://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~axs/laptop/ctwm/ctwmrc-lape-2014-05-13.txt SteveT ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?
Am 2017-08-28 21:53, schrieb Steve Litt: Bear in mind that with a Window Manager, you can only adjust fonts for the windows, not the applications in side the windows. Those applications are adjustable via the adjuster program for their library: Qt or Gtk. So you have to run the adjuster program from the command line instead of from a magical sequence of mouse clicks, but the result is the same, a great font size for your eyes. Bunsenlab has also a GUI program for adjusting fonts for Gtk. BTW: I never saw such a perfect font rendering as with Crunchbang or Bunsenlabs. The fonts are rendered very smooth, much better as with windows on the same machine, and better as a clean Xfce install from Devuan. I don't know what's the difference is. Must have something to do with fontconfig. I now always first install Bunsenblabs on my PCs, and then migrate them to Devuan. Jochen ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Which desktops are available in Devuan?
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 15:53:56 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > Bear in mind that with a Window Manager, you can only adjust fonts for > the windows, not the applications in side the windows. Those > applications are adjustable via the adjuster program for their library: > Qt or Gtk. So you have to run the adjuster program from the command > line instead of from a magical sequence of mouse clicks, but the result > is the same, a great font size for your eyes. Would your kindness extend to giving us the names of the adjuster program, so we know what to run from the CLI ? Cheers, Ron. -- America may be unique in being a country which has leapt from barbarism to decadence without touching civilization. -- John O'Hara -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org -- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] using os-prober
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 07:48:22PM +0100, Simon Hobson wrote: > Hendrik Boom wrote: > > > Do I understand correctly that grub-install will scan my only hard > > drive looking for (at least) bootable Linux systems? And that as a > > result, running grub-install on the old system will detect both and > > create a grub menu that contains both? > > > > (of course, using the grub files on the old system, which I'd better > > not delete if I still want to boot) > > grub-install will install the first stage. > update-grub will update the grub menu, and depending on how you've set > options, it will scan all filesystems looking for OSs to put in the menu. Now I can't figure out how to set options so that update-grub uses os-prober. Adding the line GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER="false" to etc/defaults/grub has no effect. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] using os-prober
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 06:37:04PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > Now I can't figure out how to set options so that update-grub uses > os-prober. You do have the os-prober package installed, yes? Greg -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] using os-prober
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 03:56:13PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 06:37:04PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > Now I can't figure out how to set options so that update-grub uses > > os-prober. > > You do have the os-prober package installed, yes? Yes. root@notlookedfor:/boot/grub# which os-prober /usr/bin/os-prober root@notlookedfor:/boot/grub# I'm running a Devuan Jessie system. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] using os-prober
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 03:56:13PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 06:37:04PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > Now I can't figure out how to set options so that update-grub uses > > os-prober. > > You do have the os-prober package installed, yes? Wait a minute. It did recognise it; it just didn't build a bootmenu stanza. root@notlookedfor:/etc/default# update-grub Generating grub configuration file ... Found theme: /usr/share/desktop-base/grub-themes/desktop-grub-theme/theme.txt Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-686-pae Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-3.16.0-4-686-pae Found unknown Linux distribution on /dev/mapper/jessie-ascii--root done Doing a diff on he grub config with a backup copy shows only one added blak line. And when I reboot, it show me only two options. Devuan gbu/linux and the advanced options for devuan gnu/linux. It does not make a boot menu item for the so-called unknown Linux distribution (which is a copy of the one it did make boot menus for). Why does it not recognise another instance of Devuan? I'm going to look for differences between the two. Maybe starting with /etc/fstab. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] using os-prober
On 08/28/2017 06:35 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 03:56:13PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 06:37:04PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: Now I can't figure out how to set options so that update-grub uses os-prober. You do have the os-prober package installed, yes? Yes. root@notlookedfor:/boot/grub# which os-prober /usr/bin/os-prober root@notlookedfor:/boot/grub# I'm running a Devuan Jessie system. -- hendrik I did this a few days ago, try commenting out the option completely, the default is to run os-prober. -- Héctor González ca...@genac.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] using os-prober
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 06:50:42PM -0500, Hector Gonzalez wrote: > On 08/28/2017 06:35 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 03:56:13PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: > >>On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 06:37:04PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >>>Now I can't figure out how to set options so that update-grub uses > >>>os-prober. > >>You do have the os-prober package installed, yes? > >Yes. > > > >root@notlookedfor:/boot/grub# which os-prober > >/usr/bin/os-prober > >root@notlookedfor:/boot/grub# > > > >I'm running a Devuan Jessie system. > >-- hendrik > > > > I did this a few days ago, try commenting out the option completely, the > default is to run os-prober. Originally, the option was not present at all. I added the option in myself. Being totally absent should be as good as commented out, right? Anyway, as I mentined in another post a few minutes ago, it does seem to be recognising it after all, but as a unknown Linux distro, failing tto notice it's Devun. And I don't get a bootmenu stanza. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Lost in grub
On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 13:51:34 -0400, fsmithred wrote in message <83f4fdb4-aa61-965e-6ec0-9fc84f851...@gmail.com>: > On 08/28/2017 10:55 AM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > Grub seems a lot more complicated now than it used to be a few > > years ago when I last upgraded Debian from one release to another. > > > > My usual procedure is to copy the system to new partitions > > (adjusting the size according to what I actually guess I might > > need), editig the copied /etc/fstab, making sure the old and new > > systems boot properly and mount the right partitions, and then > > upgrading the new one. > > Copy the system to the new partition. > Edit fstab in the new partition. > Boot into the new partition from grub command line. > Type 'c' at the boot menu to get a grub prompt. > Example: (Edit as needed. Drives count from zero, partitions count > from one.) set root=(hd0,msdos3) > linux /vmlinuz ro root=/dev/sda3 > initrd /initrd.img > boot > > Then when you're in the new system, run > grub-install /dev/sda > update-grub > > This will put the system on the new partition in charge of booting and > will generat a new menu. It should also make a boot entry for the old > system. > > fsmithred ..also worth noting that bash style commandline completion works quite nicely in grub's command line too, you can e.g. write "set root=(hd" and then hit tab twice, to see what grub finds. ..in really bad cases you may want to boot the good old legacy grub-1.x from an old install iso and then use that to chainload a rescue iso, which will (allways IME) take you to that iso's boot loader menu. ..the new way with grub-2.x is grummier IME, e.g. "linux /linux16" and then "initrd /path/to/iso/you/wanna/boot which may work if you know the right boot command line for that iso or hang it" and finally [F10] or "boot" to boot it. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] using os-prober
On 08/28/2017 06:59 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 06:50:42PM -0500, Hector Gonzalez wrote: On 08/28/2017 06:35 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 03:56:13PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 06:37:04PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: Now I can't figure out how to set options so that update-grub uses os-prober. You do have the os-prober package installed, yes? Yes. root@notlookedfor:/boot/grub# which os-prober /usr/bin/os-prober root@notlookedfor:/boot/grub# I'm running a Devuan Jessie system. -- hendrik I did this a few days ago, try commenting out the option completely, the default is to run os-prober. Originally, the option was not present at all. I added the option in myself. Being totally absent should be as good as commented out, right? Anyway, as I mentined in another post a few minutes ago, it does seem to be recognising it after all, but as a unknown Linux distro, failing tto notice it's Devun. And I don't get a bootmenu stanza. -- hendrik Ok, I just found out the problem with my test install, I installed with debootstrap, but forgot to add a kernel. Please check your /target/boot directory, it may be empty, os-prober finds library files, and assumes it's a bootable linux system, but checks for a kernel at a later time. If you want it identified as a debian system, copy etc/devuan_version to etc/debian_version (I don't know if it has any side effects, but it's easier to rename the grub entry). -- Héctor González ca...@genac.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] using os-prober
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 08:25:19PM -0500, Hector Gonzalez wrote: > On 08/28/2017 06:59 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 06:50:42PM -0500, Hector Gonzalez wrote: > >>On 08/28/2017 06:35 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >>>On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 03:56:13PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote: > On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 06:37:04PM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote: > >Now I can't figure out how to set options so that update-grub uses > >os-prober. > You do have the os-prober package installed, yes? > >>>Yes. > >>> > >>>root@notlookedfor:/boot/grub# which os-prober > >>>/usr/bin/os-prober > >>>root@notlookedfor:/boot/grub# > >>> > >>>I'm running a Devuan Jessie system. > >>>-- hendrik > >>> > >>I did this a few days ago, try commenting out the option completely, the > >>default is to run os-prober. > >Originally, the option was not present at all. I added the option in > >myself. Being totally absent should be as good as commented out, > >right? > > > >Anyway, as I mentined in another post a few minutes ago, it does seem > >to be recognising it after all, but as a unknown Linux distro, > >failing tto notice it's Devun. And I don't get a bootmenu stanza. > > > >-- hendrik > Ok, I just found out the problem with my test install, I installed with > debootstrap, but forgot to add a kernel. Please check your /target/boot > directory, it may be empty, os-prober finds library files, and assumes it's > a bootable linux system, but checks for a kernel at a later time. If you > want it identified as a debian system, copy etc/devuan_version to > etc/debian_version (I don't know if it has any side effects, but it's easier > to rename the grub entry). Thank you! I think you nailed it! When I copied /boot to /ascii/boot, which is to be mounted as /boot on the new system, I seem to have slipped up and got an extra directory, so it is at /ascii/boot/boot, which will appear as /boot/boot when mounted on the new system instead of at /boot. I'll have to debug the copy command. Funny that nothing like it seems to haave happened on /usr, /var, or / iself. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
This has been an interesting thread and has piqued my interest in getting an SSD for my Thinkpad T410. I see that Amazon is selling the Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal SSD for $140.00 which seems to be about the best price on the Web. Examining its specs, it seems as though there might be some advice against purchasing this particular model in this thread. A lot of the SSD information seems to be a couple of years old. I suppose the technology of the SSDs and the kernel's support has stabilized enough that not much new needs to be written. Still, this is new territory for me and I'd like to make a good choice and set it up properly. - Nate -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] using os-prober
On 08/28/2017 07:59 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > Anyway, as I mentined in another post a few minutes ago, it does seem > to be recognising it after all, but as a unknown Linux distro, > failing tto notice it's Devun. This is correct. Grub does not recognize devuan. Add a stanza for devuan to /usr/lib/os-probes/mounted/90linux-distro if you want it to be recognized. Or make an /etc/lsb-release file with the right information. >And I don't get a bootmenu stanza. > That's not right. Not sure why it wouldn't work. You copied the contents of one partition to another? Or did you dd one partition to another? The partitions have different uuids? (Taking wild stabs in the dark here.) fsmithred ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] noatime by default
> On Aug 28, 2017, at 9:53 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote: > > This has been an interesting thread and has piqued my interest in > getting an SSD for my Thinkpad T410. I see that Amazon is selling the > Samsung 850 EVO 500GB 2.5-Inch SATA III Internal SSD for $140.00 which > seems to be about the best price on the Web. Examining its specs, > it seems as though there might be some advice against purchasing this > particular model in this thread. Unless it’s a refurb, get it. I have one in my MacBook Pro. Lightning fast, silent, and sips power. Second best upgrade I ever did, only behind a 960 EVO NVMe in a Thinkpad T460s. Don’t worry about it burning out. Since getting my first SSD, I’ve spilled coffee into more laptops than I’ve lost SSDs to wear and age. A silicone keyboard skin will extend the life of your computer more than noatime. > A lot of the SSD information seems to be a couple of years old. I > suppose the technology of the SSDs and the kernel's support has > stabilized enough that not much new needs to be written. Still, this is > new territory for me and I'd like to make a good choice and set it up > properly. Indeed. jf -- John Franklin frank...@tux.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
