Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Le 21/07/2016 04:15, Adam Borowski a écrit : On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 06:27:25PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr): In any case, any person who has the possibility to push the power button or cut the power cord should be given the opportunity to click the halt button instead. ctrl-alt-f1+ctrl-alt-del can be used to reboot, but there's nothing to halt. Halt is accomplished by first doing ctrl-alt-f1, ctrl-alt-del, then turning the system unit off before significantly into startup (assuming physical access to the system unit in addition to a physical console). Or, as you say, through a hardware button on the system unit, or yanking the mains (AC) cord. Which means the defaults for display managers are bogus. In the default configuration, anyone with physical access can ctrl-alt-del or alt-sysrq. This can be disabled, so can be a brief push of the power button (ACPI shutdown), but I have yet to see a BIOS that allows disabling long push of the power button, or, for that matter, yanking the power cord (or the battery of a mobile device). Long-push always worked for me. And short-push worked for me on Slim - I've now replaced Slim by Lightdm. Dunno what key "sysrq" is. Thus, unless someone took extraordinary steps to provide physical security, anyone able to login locally can turn the machine off, period. An orderly shutdown is better than an unclean one, thus any display manager that forbids local users to shutdown is buggy. I think anyone could agree on this. And this means "no authentication required." Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Le 21/07/2016 06:48, Rick Moen a écrit : The purpose of making such software shutdown not trivially easy wasn't to prevent shutdown. It is to create undeniable awareness. Mindfulness. The standard solution to give users_deliberately_ that software access is to add them to a group with that right. I don't know anybody able to stop a server because of own unawareness. They all would do it only on request by the admin. Hypothetic malevolent people just haven't the key of the room. Slim's solution against unawareness is to require root password. Well, are you going to give the root password to mindless people? Better stick a poster with a warning. But the poster must not be too frightening, otherwise some people might refrain to stop the server when it is necessary or even urgent. Can you describe a use case? Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr): > I don't know anybody able to stop a server because of own > unawareness. They all would do it only on request by the admin. > Hypothetic malevolent people just haven't the key of the room. That works! ;-> Believe it or not, though, it's not unknown to have background processes running on a host -- a host not in a locked server room -- that you'd rather not be killed by some passing user, and still permit others to also login at the local console. > Slim's solution against unawareness is to require root password. > Well, are you going to give the root password to mindless people? Understand, please, that I've never happened to use slim. When I install an x window manager, I almost always use xdm. Certainly, from the description, that design seems a very appropriately cautious one. -- Cheers, Luftputebåten min er full av ål. Rick Moen r...@linuxmafia.com McQ! (4x80) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Mirroring Devuan
Hi all,
For those people working on live-build:
I'll explain how to generate the /pool and the /dists trees, containing
all the packages, sources, Contents.gz, etc... But first of all i want
to do the following clarification: generating the *Contents* takes TOO
long. As i once commented, i tried to build a complete repository of
Devuan including also the Contents.gz. After six weeks, a power cut
thwarted the efforts and the repository is currently broken. So, at the
time being, the repository of gnuinos will be an additional repository
for Devuan: slim, simple-netaid, linux-libre, vdev, ceni,
openbox-logout, a device-manager, a dynamical menu lancher in gtk,
dmenu, etc... [*]
Well... Since i'm not familiar with *Amprolla*, written in python by
Franco Lanza, i'll explain how to use *reprepro*, which has one
disadvantage when compared with Amprolla, that is: reprepro isn't
compatible with the *git* source format. It's only compatible with the
native and quilt source formats.
All it needs is a folder containing all the packages and sources (we'll
call it, to fix ideas, "devuan-mirror"), and another folder named "conf"
containing in turn a file named "distributions".
Here you are an example of this configuration file:
Origin: Devuan
Label: Devuan Jessie packages
Codename: jessie
Architectures: i386 amd64 armhf source
Components: main
UDebComponentes: main
Description: Additional packages for Devuan
DebIndices: Packages Release . .gz
UDebIndices: Packages Release . .gz
DscIndices: Sources Release .gz .bz2
Contents: . .gz .bz2
#SignWith: yes
Now, you can use *find* and *reprepro* commands:
find ./devuan-mirror -name "*.deb" -exec reprepro --ask-passphrase -b .
-V -C main includedeb jessie {} \;
find ./devuan-mirror -name "*.udeb" -exec reprepro --ask-passphrase -b .
-V -C main includeudeb jessie {} \;
find ./devuan-mirror -name "*.dsc" -exec reprepro --ask-passphrase -b .
-V -C main includedsc jessie {} \;
As i said above, reprepro isn't compatible with the git source format.
In such cases, only the packages will be generated.
I contacted "Bernhard R. Link" weeks ago referring to this issue, and
the author of reprepro kindly answered a few days after:
[...] Given how opaque the format is there is little chance that
reprepro will ever support that format completely. (Writing maintainable
code to extract the Section and Priority for a source package for
example seems to be quite a show stopper there for example).
Though reprepro could gain some incomplete support for it. (I guess
there is some chance reprepro should already support retrieving packages
from other repositories in this format. Adding such packages locally is
likely not yet possible (though I guess one would have to try to be sure)).
But as this format is experimental and mostly abandoned for some time it
is not that high on my priority list
[...]
Reprepro is written in C.
HTH,
Aitor.
[*] and s*d :)
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Mirroring Devuan
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 12:35:18 +0200, aitor_czr wrote in message
<5790a566.5080...@gnuinos.org>:
> Hi all,
>
> For those people working on live-build:
>
> I'll explain how to generate the /pool and the /dists trees,
> containing all the packages, sources, Contents.gz, etc... But first
> of all i want to do the following clarification: generating the
> *Contents* takes TOO long.
..aye. That's why I asked:
https://talk.devuan.org/t/mirroring-devuan/45/7
and how to convert my LAN Debian mirror into a Devuan mirror.
> As i once commented, i tried to build a
> complete repository of Devuan including also the Contents.gz. After
> six weeks, a power cut thwarted the efforts and the repository is
> currently broken. So, at the time being, the repository of gnuinos
> will be an additional repository for Devuan: slim, simple-netaid,
> linux-libre, vdev, ceni, openbox-logout, a device-manager, a
> dynamical menu lancher in gtk, dmenu, etc... [*]
>
> Well... Since i'm not familiar with *Amprolla*, written in python by
> Franco Lanza, i'll explain how to use *reprepro*, which has one
> disadvantage when compared with Amprolla, that is: reprepro isn't
> compatible with the *git* source format. It's only compatible with
> the native and quilt source formats.
..not a problem, it only needs to recognise the .deb etc mirror
formats from vm etc build hosts etc upstream.
..(re)build hosts are not too hard, if we can't get them to do all
format upstreams, we might need to do say one for git trees, one
for tarballs, one for source .debs etc. No big deal, we have
plenty tools, the bigger problem is knowing how to use them. ;o)
> All it needs is a folder containing all the packages and sources
> (we'll call it, to fix ideas, "devuan-mirror"), and another folder
> named "conf" containing in turn a file named "distributions".
>
> Here you are an example of this configuration file:
>
> Origin: Devuan
> Label: Devuan Jessie packages
> Codename: jessie
> Architectures: i386 amd64 armhf source
> Components: main
> UDebComponentes: main
> Description: Additional packages for Devuan
> DebIndices: Packages Release . .gz
> UDebIndices: Packages Release . .gz
> DscIndices: Sources Release .gz .bz2
> Contents: . .gz .bz2
> #SignWith: yes
>
> Now, you can use *find* and *reprepro* commands:
>
> find ./devuan-mirror -name "*.deb" -exec reprepro --ask-passphrase
> -b . -V -C main includedeb jessie {} \;
> find ./devuan-mirror -name "*.udeb" -exec reprepro --ask-passphrase
> -b . -V -C main includeudeb jessie {} \;
> find ./devuan-mirror -name "*.dsc" -exec reprepro --ask-passphrase
> -b . -V -C main includedsc jessie {} \;
>
> As i said above, reprepro isn't compatible with the git source
> format. In such cases, only the packages will be generated.
..I, Geoff McLane and Francesco Brisa played with build scripts for
FlightGear a few years back, Francesco's download_and_compile.sh is
the basis for today's FGMeta build machine.
..problem now is Devuan "is kicking out" FlightGear and its .deps,
because Debian is kicking out FlightGear and said .deps out of the
Debian mirrors. So, I need a solution, and I'm volonteering as a
mirror conversion guinea pig.
> I contacted "Bernhard R. Link" weeks ago referring to this issue, and
> the author of reprepro kindly answered a few days after:
>
>
> [...] Given how opaque the format is there is little chance that
> reprepro will ever support that format completely. (Writing
> maintainable code to extract the Section and Priority for a source
> package for example seems to be quite a show stopper there for
> example).
>
> Though reprepro could gain some incomplete support for it. (I guess
> there is some chance reprepro should already support retrieving
> packages from other repositories in this format. Adding such packages
> locally is likely not yet possible (though I guess one would have to
> try to be sure)).
>
> But as this format is experimental and mostly abandoned for some time
> it is not that high on my priority list
..no big deal, we can e.g. adapt Francesco's download_and_compile.sh and
put them in vm build hosts.
--
..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
Scenarios always come in sets of three:
best case, worst case, and just in case.
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Didier Kryn said: > In any case, any person who has the possibility to push the power > button or cut the power cord should be given the opportunity to click > the halt button instead. ctrl-alt-f1+ctrl-alt-del can be used to > reboot, but there's nothing to halt. I'd actually forgotten about ctrl-alt-f1+ctrl-alt-del ...must be getting old. Not that I want to do so, but can ctrl-alt-f1+ctrl-alt-del be disabled by the sysadmin? For "halt," there are always magic keys, as long as that's not disabled by the sysadmin... Alt-SysRq reisuo I definitely like the idea that this is enabled by default in Devuan. I actually use it quite a lot. cheers, Robert ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 19:51:04 +0800 Robert Storey wrote: > Not that I want to do so, but can ctrl-alt-f1+ctrl-alt-del be > disabled by the sysadmin? Yes, you can disable both, independently: The command executed by ctrl+alt+del is defined in /etc/inittab. The switching of virtual consoles with ctrl+alt+(f1-fN) can be disabled by adding the following lines to your /etc/X11/xorg.conf or to an arbitrary file in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/: Section "ServerFlags" Option "DontVTSwitch" "true" EndSection libre Grüße, Florian ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Le 21/07/2016 13:51, Robert Storey a écrit : Not that I want to do so, but can ctrl-alt-f1+ctrl-alt-del be disabled by the sysadmin? For "halt," there are always magic keys, as long as that's not disabled by the sysadmin... Alt-SysRq reisuo I don't reply to your questions since Florian did :-) but I, myself, have two questions: - Still don't know what key you are talking of; never seen that on a keyboard. - What do you mean by "reisuo" ? Thanks. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Didier Kryn writes: I don't reply to your questions since Florian did :-) but I, myself, have two questions: - Still don't know what key you are talking of; never seen that on a keyboard. - What do you mean by "reisuo" ? You learn something new every day. Today it's sysrq and linux: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
I wrote: You learn something new every day. Today it's sysrq and linux: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt The poor developers among you may take special note of alt-sysrq-f, which kills a memory-eating process quite reliably. The good developers among you never have bugs that cause malloc bombs, of course, and can ignore this. Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Le 21/07/2016 14:50, Arnt Gulbrandsen a écrit : Didier Kryn writes: I don't reply to your questions since Florian did :-) but I, myself, have two questions: - Still don't know what key you are talking of; never seen that on a keyboard. - What do you mean by "reisuo" ? You learn something new every day. Today it's sysrq and linux: This is one of the goodies of dng :-) https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt Thanks to you all! I eventually discovered that my key had also a tiny label saying sys-rq ! Will try it tonight... Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 01:50:41PM +0100, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > Didier Kryn writes: > >- Still don't know what key you are talking of; never seen > >that on a keyboard. It might be either a key on its own or printed on the side of PrtScr. > >- What do you mean by "reisuo" ? > > You learn something new every day. Today it's sysrq and linux: > https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt You almost always want to end this with 'b' (reboot) rather than 'o' (off). The 'r' is pointless here (as you're not going to use the system anymore), 'e' and 'i' are unlikely to help. For stuck X/Weyland/SVGAlib/etc you want 'r'+'k' rather than nuking the system. -- An imaginary friend squared is a real enemy. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Didier Kryn writes: Thanks to you all! I eventually discovered that my key had also a tiny label saying sys-rq ! Will try it tonight... You can always get a daskeyboard or happy hacker and escape the tyranny of built-in documentation. This is mine: http://www.getdigital.de/images/actionshots/t4/dasKeyboardUltimateEU.jpg Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Le 21/07/2016 14:58, Arnt Gulbrandsen a écrit : I wrote: You learn something new every day. Today it's sysrq and linux: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt The poor developers among you may take special note of alt-sysrq-f, which kills a memory-eating process quite reliably. The good developers among you never have bugs that cause malloc bombs, of course, and can ignore this. I know one who would use a C++ vector when he barely needs a static array, because, you know, it is so more modern! But he's developping on a Mc-Intosh :-) Dunno if the sys-rq trick works on Mac. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 09:09:28AM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote: > I've now replaced Slim by Lightdm. Dunno what key "sysrq" is. sysrq is sometimes labelled PrtSc. In the old DOS days, it would print the screen. No doubt this might require documentation, too. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Quoting Arnt Gulbrandsen (a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no): > You learn something new every day. Today it's sysrq and linux: > https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt That's what it's like to be among the lucky 10,000! https://xkcd.com/1053/ -- Cheers, Luftputebåten min er full av ål. Rick Moen r...@linuxmafia.com McQ! (4x80) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Devuan onion address
I cannot reach the onion address of Devuan http://devuanzuwu3xoqwp.onion I get a "404 Not Found" Have it been working before? In addition I want to ask if the Devuan package repositories via Tor and apt-transport-tor are reachable? /scooby ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
On Thu, 21 Jul 2016 10:18:14 -0700 Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Arnt Gulbrandsen (a...@gulbrandsen.priv.no): > > > You learn something new every day. Today it's sysrq and linux: > > https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt > > That's what it's like to be among the lucky 10,000! > https://xkcd.com/1053/ For the past 25 years, I shake my head in amazement at the profound stupidity of myself at an age five years earlier. SteveT Steve Litt July 2016 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Quoting Steve Litt (sl...@troubleshooters.com): > Rick Moen wrote: > > > That's what it's like to be among the lucky 10,000! > > https://xkcd.com/1053/ > > For the past 25 years, I shake my head in amazement at the profound > stupidity of myself at an age five years earlier. You might have been ignorant (nobody's born knowledgeable), but I personally doubt the stupidity. Taxonomy: o ignorance: fixable, no shame in it o stupidity: inherent, no shame in it o acting stupid: fixable, but only by overcoming the urge to double down and proclaim 'On _me_, holes shot in one's foot look good.' ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Flexible software (Was: F1 and special usernames on the login screen)
On 07/20/2016 05:19 AM, Tomasz Torcz wrote: On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 09:57:41PM +0200, Jaromil wrote: On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Simon Walter wrote: Since this is Devuan (something about veteran *unix* admins, and coming from Debian - the *universal* OS), I would not have expected Devuan's fans and users to be so close minded. I think anyone here should stop taking conversations in DNG as representative of Devuan. Please note that even those who denigrated our efforts, names the shitdevuansays hooligans, have done so. I know the gmane title for the list is misleading (this is not the "devuan development" list), yet we have not choosen that title for it nor have never declared this to be a place representative of devuan. Devuan has official channels for communication and people who are appointed to such a communication. As one of them let me say that, since many here read and run code, I recommend taking the actual software as the best means of communicating what Devuan is about. Could you point us to those proper Devuan channels? Some of us are genuinely interested in challenges when developing the distribution, and getting to know the ways Devuan developers solved those challenges. Signal to noise ratio is very low here, for each one email with solid technicalities there are at least dozen useless emails. I would happily leave dng if I could read archives of real development list. Are these correct? https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devuan-announce https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devuan-discuss ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Flexible software (Was: F1 and special usernames on the login screen)
On Thu, 7/21/16, Simon Walter wrote: Subject: Re: [DNG] Flexible software (Was: F1 and special usernames on the login screen) To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Thursday, July 21, 2016, 7:29 PM On 07/20/2016 05:19 AM, Tomasz Torcz wrote: >> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 09:57:41PM +0200, Jaromil wrote: >>> On Tue, 19 Jul 2016, Simon Walter wrote: >>> Since this is Devuan (something about veteran *unix* admins, and coming from Debian - the *universal* OS), I would not have expected Devuan's fans and users to be so close minded. >>> >>> I think anyone here should stop taking conversations in DNG as >>> representative of Devuan. Please note that even those who denigrated >>> our efforts, names the shitdevuansays hooligans, have done so. I know >>> the gmane title for the list is misleading (this is not the "devuan >>> development" list), yet we have not choosen that title for it nor have >>> never declared this to be a place representative of devuan. >>> >>> Devuan has official channels for communication and people who are >>> appointed to such a communication. As one of them let me say that, >>> since many here read and run code, I recommend taking the actual >>> software as the best means of communicating what Devuan is about. >> >> Could you point us to those proper Devuan channels? Some of us >> are genuinely interested in challenges when developing the distribution, >> and getting to know the ways Devuan developers solved those challenges. >> Signal to noise ratio is very low here, for each one email with solid >> technicalities there are at least dozen useless emails. I would >> happily leave dng if I could read archives of real development list. >> > > Are these correct? > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devuan-announce > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devuan-discuss > Yes, those are two other ML. devuan-announce is strictly for announcements. devuan-discuss is an email interface with the Devuan discourse forum. There is very little activity to date. There are the IRC channels but they also wander quite a bit as does DNG. I personally find that the DNG ML has more technical discussion than any of the other options. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Le 21/07/2016 14:50, Arnt Gulbrandsen a écrit : Didier Kryn writes: I don't reply to your questions since Florian did :-) but I, myself, have two questions: - Still don't know what key you are talking of; never seen that on a keyboard. - What do you mean by "reisuo" ? You learn something new every day. Today it's sysrq and linux: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt Tried it yesterday evening on my HP-Latitude laptop running Debian-Wheezy. Tried both with and . None did the trick. With reisuo I only succeeded to locked tty1 :-( BTW my laptop has an English keyboard because it is impossible in Europe to buy one with a US keyboard. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr): > BTW my laptop has an English keyboard because it is impossible in > Europe to buy one with a US keyboard. You're not missing a _thing_! ;-> (I say this as a native speaker of English, who also speaks American through translation.) -- Cheers, "On American pronunciation: You say erbs and we Rick Moensay herbs. Because, you know, there's an H in it." r...@linuxmafia.com -- Eddie Izzard McQ! (4x80) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Le 22/07/2016 07:01, Rick Moen a écrit : Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr): BTW my laptop has an English keyboard because it is impossible in Europe to buy one with a US keyboard. You're not missing a _thing_! ;-> (I say this as a native speaker of English, who also speaks American through translation.) With a French keyboard, I can write in en-UK or en-US, and it is also much more convenient when writing in fr-FR. I just prefer a US keyboard for writing programs because the layout has been hardcoded in my fingers by almost 40 years of programming and I find it definitely more convenient for that task. In Europe you can buy your HP with only an European or Saoudian (dunno why) keyboard. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 10:01:34PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr): > > > BTW my laptop has an English keyboard because it is impossible in > > Europe to buy one with a US keyboard. > > You're not missing a _thing_! ;-> (I say this as a native speaker of > English, who also speaks American through translation.) https://i.imgur.com/HIP7b6T.jpg -- An imaginary friend squared is a real enemy. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
> With a French keyboard, I can write in en-UK or en-US, and it is
> also much more convenient when writing in fr-FR.
Vraiment? C'est intéressant. ('Truly? This is interesting.')
I must confess ignorance. FWIW, usually in my experience, the main
disadvantage of US keyboards is lack of a Euro-symbol key, but there are
easy workarounds.
Jeg kan også skrive inn mitt tredje språk. (I can also write my third
language.)
> I just prefer a US keyboard for writing programs because the
> layout has been hardcoded in my fingers by almost 40 years of
> programming and I find it definitely more convenient for that task.
Would it help if I apologise pour l'impérialisme américain? ;->
(Je crains que nous ne parlons pas de Devuan. Nous devrions parler des
questions techniques, mais il est agréable à utiliser la belle langue.)
--
Cheers, « On donne des conseils, mais on ne
Rick Moendonne point la sagesse d'en profiter. »
r...@linuxmafia.com -- La Rochefoucauld
McQ! (4x80)
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Le 22/07/2016 07:18, Adam Borowski a écrit : On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 10:01:34PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr): BTW my laptop has an English keyboard because it is impossible in Europe to buy one with a US keyboard. You're not missing a _thing_! ;-> (I say this as a native speaker of English, who also speaks American through translation.) https://i.imgur.com/HIP7b6T.jpg I imagine the software is produced by a group of English and continental Chinese people :-) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Le 22/07/2016 07:24, Rick Moen a écrit :
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr):
>With a French keyboard, I can write in en-UK or en-US, and it is
>also much more convenient when writing in fr-FR.
Vraiment? C'est intéressant. ('Truly? This is interesting.')
I must confess ignorance. FWIW, usually in my experience, the main
disadvantage of US keyboards is lack of a Euro-symbol key, but there are
easy workarounds.
Jeg kan også skrive inn mitt tredje språk. (I can also write my third
language.)
Same problem as you: accents aren't available on En keyboards (or
by tricks I ignore). I use to pick them from various documents with the
mouse - or use a Fr keyboard.
Keyboards' layouts have been originally dictated by typewtiters'
mechanics: to prevent the collisions of the hammers, letters which can
appear close together in words are distant on the keyboard.
In En/US keyboards, digits, / and # are lower case, which is
objectively more convenient to write programs.
Didier
___
Dng mailing list
Dng@lists.dyne.org
https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Quoting Didier Kryn (k...@in2p3.fr): > Same problem as you: accents aren't available on En keyboards > (or by tricks I ignore). I use to pick them from various documents > with the mouse - or use a Fr keyboard. I actually have a bigger problem. My MUA (mail user agent = e-mail client) is running on my SMTP server, uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com, mutt under GNU screen on Linux -- but I'm almost never there. Instead, I'm pretty much anywhere else in the world, typing on some machine that is ssh'ed to remote shell on my server. So, I'm dependent on correct terminal support in _two_ places. Merci à Dieu pour UTF-8. ;-> (Mon passeport américain peut être annulé pour le dire.) -- Cheers, « On donne des conseils, mais on ne Rick Moendonne point la sagesse d'en profiter. » r...@linuxmafia.com -- La Rochefoucauld McQ! (4x80) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
Le 22/07/2016 08:07, Rick Moen a écrit : My MUA (mail user agent = e-mail client) is running on my SMTP server, uncle-enzo.linuxmafia.com, mutt under GNU screen on Linux -- but I'm almost never there. Instead, I'm pretty much anywhere else in the world, typing on some machine that is ssh'ed to remote shell on my server. So, I'm dependent on correct terminal support in_two_ places. Why such a complicated solution? I'm using Icedove with Imap accounts and encrypted connections to smtp servers; roaming isn't an issue. OTOH, I'm happy not everybody uses the same means :-) Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] F1 and special usernames on the login screen
On 07/22/2016 01:56 PM, Didier Kryn wrote: Le 21/07/2016 14:50, Arnt Gulbrandsen a écrit : Didier Kryn writes: I don't reply to your questions since Florian did :-) but I, myself, have two questions: - Still don't know what key you are talking of; never seen that on a keyboard. - What do you mean by "reisuo" ? You learn something new every day. Today it's sysrq and linux: https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysrq.txt Tried it yesterday evening on my HP-Latitude laptop running Debian-Wheezy. Tried both with and . None did the trick. With reisuo I only succeeded to locked tty1 :-( BTW my laptop has an English keyboard because it is impossible in Europe to buy one with a US keyboard. I hope I am not stating the obvious. Did you press the Fn key? Notebook computers have an Fn key to access the smaller label. For example, Apples have set at the Fn keys to be volume, screen brightness, etc. You need to press Fn + F10 to get F10, since F10 is written in the smaller font. Most sensible manufactures haven't done that. However, the some keys are doubled up and usually if you need to press Fn, it will be in the same font/color as the Fn key. I suspect you wanted to press Fn + Del + whatever other keys you need. (Sorry wasn't following the conversation in detail). Hope that helps, Simon ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Flexible software (Was: F1 and special usernames on the login screen)
On Fri, 22 Jul 2016, Simon Walter wrote: > On 07/20/2016 05:19 AM, Tomasz Torcz wrote: > > Could you point us to those proper Devuan channels? [...] > > Signal to noise ratio is very low here > Are these correct? > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devuan-announce > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devuan-discuss yes. but the discuss one is not, because we use https://talk.devuan.org so please consider just subscribing to the announce list, which will circulate important communications on progress and link to documentation: not just releases of Devuan, but for instance also progress on the SDK or the manual, or bugs we find, anything worthed noting. talk is based on Discuss which is web based, annoying for some here, yet is much better at organising content in categories, rating posters and navigating it all. DNG stays as it is: a post-debianfork discussion campfire. ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
