[DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists

[marc]

Hi

Just a quick note that there was a very brief discussion about removing
systemd from debian and replacing it with openRC on the linux-elitists
mailing lists. Probably the most interesting message ID 
was 20160514204536.ga26...@linuxmafia.com - contained two links
which might be interesting to some on the list:

http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/openrc-conversion.html

regards

marc
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 08:28:18PM -0700, Gregory Nowak wrote:

[cut]

> 
> If besides basic sound support you can also add espeak/espeak-data,
> and espeakup, that should give speakup users another accessible livecd
> choice,
> assuming it is possible to boot this into a text console. I'll throw
> in brltty as well if I may.
> 

I will do my best to include all of them. If you have any other
suggestion concerning accessibility, it will be very welcome.

HND

KatolaZ

-- 
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Re: [DNG] Some questions re the devuan release

[Irrwahn]

On Sun, 15 May 2016 00:46:05 +0200, Emninger wrote:
> Am Sat, 14 May 2016 19:21:29 +
> schrieb Irrwahn :
> 
>> Short list of Devuan repository URLs:

>> ## testing (ascii)
>> deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged testing main contrib non-free
>> deb-src http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged testing main contrib non-free

> 
> Hi Urban, thanks for that list. At this moment i followed the advice of
> fsmithred and set in my sources.list all what before was Jessie to
> Ascii. Would that be reasonable from your point of view. 

Hi,

I can only guess what is in your sources.list right now, but it 
sounds reasonable. It should now look similar to the middle block 
of my original list (still quoted above), with "testing" replaced 
by "ascii". And possibly modulo the non-free part, depending on 
your needs and mindset. 

Just one quick additional note though: If you use the codename 
"ascii" in source.list, your system will stay on ascii, even 
after it will have turned into the stable branch eventually. If 
that is what you intend, you should be fine.

> Or is there
> something to consider, eventually to keep from Jessie. 

Oh, that's a hard one, as it totally depends on your setup and 
needs. The following is just anecdotal evidence taken from my 
particular system, please take it with a massive grain of salt!

As I already mentioned in an earlier message, I need the 
non-free catalyst fglrx driver, which for reasons beyond my 
knowledge is currently not available in neither testing nor 
unstable. So I pull that one from Jessie. 

Even though my kernel issue is resolved, thanks to your earlier 
hint, I am keeping the 3.16 Jessie kernel around as a fallback
option, just in case.

Since the Devuan devs are currently throwing all their power 
at getting the Jessie release in shape, some packages in Ascii 
are lagging behind. (Examples: qemu-system-* still depends on 
libpng12, which is only available from Jessie proper; upower 
depends on a version of libimobiledevice4, which is not in 
Ascii.) I expect such issues to go away naturally some time 
after the Jessie release.

Moreover, ATM I am still pulling a few packages (namely cups, 
gvfs and pulseaudio) from the 3rd party angband.pl nosystemd 
repository in order to keep the functionality of these packages 
without having any systemd dependencies creep into my setup. 

OF COURSE, NONE OF THE ABOVE SHOULD BE TAKEN AS AN EXAMPLE TO 
FOLLOW! I am aware of the risks, I took various precautions, 
and I know how to pull myself out of the swamp in case 
something really goes haywire. Other peoples mileage will (and 
should!) vary vastly.

> In the past i
> was used to use unstable (either in crunchbang or in siduction) ...

I made the experience that things in Debian unstable break on a 
regular basis, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the same for 
Devuan. That's why it's called "unstable" after all. Personally, 
that doesn't keep me from cherry-picking the occasional outlier 
package from it, provided I at least think I know what I'm doing. 

Bottom line: It all depends on how adventurous you are. Non-broken 
packages move from unstable to testing on a regular schedule 
anyway, so you'd usually only gain a few days or weeks of headstart 
at the cost of stability. 

My apologies for this overly lengthy post, I hope you don't mind.

Regards
Urban
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Re: [DNG] dealing with wifi

[Joel Roth]

On Sat, May 14, 2016 at 09:27:17PM +0200, emnin...@riseup.net wrote:
> Am Sat, 14 May 2016 17:07:06 +
> schrieb Didier Kryn :
> 
> >  You have mostly two ways to deal with wifi.
> > 
> >  1) you select the station and enter the key everytime you
> > connect. 2) your system remembers the ssid's and keys of all stations
> > you need and it connects you automatically - this is called
> > wifi-roaming.
> > 
> >  I think wicd matches the first case only.
> > 
> >  AFAIU, ceni allows you to either work according to the first
> > method or make the basic configuration of wpa_supplicant for the
> > second method, something you can also do with a text editor. There
> > are many howtos on the web, search for the following 3 keywords
> > "wifi" "roaming" "wpa_supplicant".
> > 
> >  wpa_supplicant may or may not invoke the dhcp client, depending
> > on what it reads in /etc/network/interfaces.
> > 
> >  Hope this helps.
> > 
> >  Didier
> 
> First of all merci!
> 
> If it is about roaming (i.e. memorizing the ssids whereto the computer
> was connected, if i'm getting you right), then, wicd does that job.
> 
> If you configure wpa_supplicant with ceni (which also does the job for
> wired connections, btw) then, the wifi connection on the next boot is
> started *BEFORE* the login screen.
> 
> I'll check a bit and see, how in the end i'll configure the
> connections. Principally, to avoid wicd from starting automatically
> i'll have to pull out the wicd script out of /etc/init.d/ , correct?
> BUT: should there be a service "wpa_supplicant" in /etc/init.d/ ?

Actually wicd takes care of starting wpa_supplicant.
 
> TIA
> 
> 
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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 83

[emninger]

Am Sun, 15 May 2016 12:00:01 +
schrieb Irrwahn :
[...]

> As I already mentioned in an earlier message, I need the 
> non-free catalyst fglrx driver, which for reasons beyond my 
> knowledge is currently not available in neither testing nor 
> unstable. So I pull that one from Jessie. 
> 
> Even though my kernel issue is resolved, thanks to your earlier 
> hint, I am keeping the 3.16 Jessie kernel around as a fallback
> option, just in case.
> 
> Since the Devuan devs are currently throwing all their power 
> at getting the Jessie release in shape, some packages in Ascii 
> are lagging behind. (Examples: qemu-system-* still depends on 
> libpng12, which is only available from Jessie proper; upower 
> depends on a version of libimobiledevice4, which is not in 
> Ascii.) I expect such issues to go away naturally some time 
> after the Jessie release.

[...]

Thanks for the lesson, it's not annoying, at least not for me ;)

Just one practical question: I notice the fglrx problem as well. How
can i add it to my repositories? Reactivating Jessie?

There would be the way to download it manually from the debian site and
install with gdebi or apt, wouldn't it?

TIA & have a nice sunday :)
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Re: [DNG] dealing with wifi

[aitor_czr]

El 15/05/16 a las 14:00, Gregory Nowak  escribió:

Principally, to avoid wicd from starting automatically
>i'll have to pull out the wicd script out of/etc/init.d/  , correct?

Not necessarily. Simply doing:

update-rc.d wicd disable

will prevent wicd from being started or stopped by removing the
symlinks to it. If you were to remove wicd from /etc/init.d, it would
be put back when the package was upgraded in the future.

Greg

"/etc/init.d/wicd" starts the daemon.

You need to remove the following file:

/etc/xdg/autostart/wicd-tray.desktop

On the other hand, pulling out a file from /etc/init.d/ isn't enough. 
You need to run:


update-rc.d -f wicd remove

Cheers,

  Aitor.


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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[Edward Bartolo]

Hi,

When I tried to install Devuan 64 bit on a Pentium Dual Core, 3 GB
DDR2, I couldn't get past the disk partitioner as it assumed I was
using LVM. I never used LVM because it unnecessarily adds another
layer of complexity that I deem not necessary on a family computer.
This means, I always use plain ext4 partitions for my installations.

I had to bypass the serious issue by using Debian Jessie 64
installation iso instead.

I am reposting as nobody actually reported any feedback on this issue.

Edward

On 14/05/2016, KatolaZ  wrote:
> On Fri, May 13, 2016 at 07:52:49PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> [cut]
>
>>
>> Yes. What I was saying is to provide an additional initramfs. For
>> instance, you could have five initramfs files:
>>
>> 1) ext4, no lvm, no encryption
>> 2) ext4 plus encryption
>> 3) ext4 plus lvm
>> 4) ext4 plus encryption plus lvm
>> 5) everything and the kitchen sink
>>
>> The grub boot menu would expose all five.
>>
>> Only #5 would take the whole 256 MB of RAM, and #1, which I believe is
>> the sum of all installation defaults, will be tiny.
>
> Thanks Steve for your comment. That's another possibility I was
> considering, and seems the most sensible one. Unfortunately, the basic
> initrd will be a bit more complicated anyway, since live-build uses
> aufs and squashfs, but not lvm (so that the support for lvm can be
> left out of initrd). But there seem to be a lot of space for improving
> over the current requirements. I am working on that already.
>
>>
>> Meanwhile, I spoze 256MB of RAM isn't a horrible disadvantage, because
>> almost everything sold in the last 10 years has more than 512MB. And if
>> someone were that light on RAM, they could boot System Rescue CD.
>>
>> Yeah, the more I think about it, the 256MB requirement is no problem at
>> all, especially because once you're actually booted, only 37MB of your
>> 256MB, leaving the rest for apps you'd be running.
>>
>> So forget everything I said about this being a shame. It's no big deal
>> at all.
>
> Nope! I agree with your first opinion: there is in principle no reason
> to require a higher amount of ram if we can squeeze the initrd to a
> bare minimum that makes almost everybody happy :) After all, the
> problem with modern distros is exactly that they carry on board as
> much as they can, even if most of the garbage will not be ever used
> once in a lifetime. A minimal live image is against this "consumistic"
> approach to distro design :)
>
> Thanks for the comments. I am working on this and will keep you
> postedin due course.
>
> HND
>
> KatolaZ
>
> --
> [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ]
> [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
> [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ]
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[Go Linux]

On Sun, 5/15/16, Edward Bartolo  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images
 To: "KatolaZ" 
 Cc: "dng" 
 Date: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 10:39 AM
 
> Hi,
> 
> When I tried to install Devuan 64 bit on a Pentium Dual Core, 3 GB
> DDR2, I couldn't get past the disk partitioner as it assumed I was
> using LVM. I never used LVM because it unnecessarily adds another
> layer of complexity that I deem not necessary on a family computer.
> This means, I always use plain ext4 partitions for my installations.
> 
> I had to bypass the serious issue by using Debian Jessie 64
> installation iso instead.
> 
> I am reposting as nobody actually reported any feedback on this issue.
> 
> Edward
> 



It's not clear exactly which iso were you trying to install.  One from the 
Devuan repos or the refracta unofficial live iso (which is the subject of this 
thread)?  Could you please clarify?  Thanks.

golinux





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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 83

[Irrwahn]

On Sun, 15 May 2016 15:39:03 +0200, Emninger wrote:
> Am Sun, 15 May 2016 12:00:01 +
> schrieb Irrwahn :
> [...]
> 
>> As I already mentioned in an earlier message, I need the 
>> non-free catalyst fglrx driver, which for reasons beyond my 
>> knowledge is currently not available in neither testing nor 
>> unstable. So I pull that one from Jessie. 



> Just one practical question: I notice the fglrx problem as well. How
> can i add it to my repositories? Reactivating Jessie?
> 
> There would be the way to download it manually from the debian site and
> install with gdebi or apt, wouldn't it?

In principle, I see (at least) three viable ways.

First option would be the one you mentioned: Manually download 
the Jessie packages (it's more than one!). I consider this the 
most messy and least convenient method.

The second method would be to leave both Jessie and Ascii in 
sources.list. However, to make this foolproof one might have 
to additionally edit the apt preferences file, hence digging 
down the apt-pinning rabbit hole. This option has the charm 
that you could leave it that way and benefit pick the best of 
both releases. However, I'm afraid I'd probably mess up big 
time, if I tried to lead you trough this from just the top of 
my head, right now.

The third method (which I would prefer) starts out like #2, 
but after you installed the fglrx drivers you would disable 
(comment out) the Jessie repositories again. 

I think the last one is the easiest and safest way to get the  
drivers. A perfectionist could argue, that additionally one 
should leave enabled the non-free branch of jessie-security 
to be on the safe side. But I guess now I started nit-picking 
at a subatomic level. :P
 
TL;DR: 
Enable Jessie; install fglrx et al.; disable Jessie; cigar. :D

> TIA & have a nice sunday :)

You are very welcome, and the same to you. :)

Regards
Urban

 
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[. fsmithred]

It could not have been one of my live isos, because refractainstaller
doesn't do lvm.

With the devuan beta isos, I've done both manual partitioning and automatic
partitioning (to a single partition) and was not forced to use lvm in any
case. On  the automatic partitioning, an extended partition is created for
swap, but it's not lvm.

Edward, did you use the graphical install or the text install? I find the
text install to be easier. I can use the keyboard all the way through
without having to switch back and forth from the mouse. The debian (and
devuan) graphical installer is not a true graphical installer. (IMHO)

Maybe you made a wrong turn somewhere. Mostly, I just hit ENTER to take the
defaults.

-fsr


On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Go Linux  wrote:

> On Sun, 5/15/16, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images
>  To: "KatolaZ" 
>  Cc: "dng" 
>  Date: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 10:39 AM
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > When I tried to install Devuan 64 bit on a Pentium Dual Core, 3 GB
> > DDR2, I couldn't get past the disk partitioner as it assumed I was
> > using LVM. I never used LVM because it unnecessarily adds another
> > layer of complexity that I deem not necessary on a family computer.
> > This means, I always use plain ext4 partitions for my installations.
> >
> > I had to bypass the serious issue by using Debian Jessie 64
> > installation iso instead.
> >
> > I am reposting as nobody actually reported any feedback on this issue.
> >
> > Edward
> >
>
> 
>
> It's not clear exactly which iso were you trying to install.  One from the
> Devuan repos or the refracta unofficial live iso (which is the subject of
> this thread)?  Could you please clarify?  Thanks.
>
> golinux
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 83

[. fsmithred]

I have the following file (or equivalent) any time I have more than one
release enabled in sources.list:

cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00defaultrelease
APT::Default-Release "jessie";

That way, only packages from jessie will be installed unless I use the -t
option to name a different release.

-fsr


On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Irrwahn  wrote:

> On Sun, 15 May 2016 15:39:03 +0200, Emninger wrote:
> > Am Sun, 15 May 2016 12:00:01 +
> > schrieb Irrwahn :
> > [...]
> >
> >> As I already mentioned in an earlier message, I need the
> >> non-free catalyst fglrx driver, which for reasons beyond my
> >> knowledge is currently not available in neither testing nor
> >> unstable. So I pull that one from Jessie.
>
> 
>
> > Just one practical question: I notice the fglrx problem as well. How
> > can i add it to my repositories? Reactivating Jessie?
> >
> > There would be the way to download it manually from the debian site and
> > install with gdebi or apt, wouldn't it?
>
> In principle, I see (at least) three viable ways.
>
> First option would be the one you mentioned: Manually download
> the Jessie packages (it's more than one!). I consider this the
> most messy and least convenient method.
>
> The second method would be to leave both Jessie and Ascii in
> sources.list. However, to make this foolproof one might have
> to additionally edit the apt preferences file, hence digging
> down the apt-pinning rabbit hole. This option has the charm
> that you could leave it that way and benefit pick the best of
> both releases. However, I'm afraid I'd probably mess up big
> time, if I tried to lead you trough this from just the top of
> my head, right now.
>
> The third method (which I would prefer) starts out like #2,
> but after you installed the fglrx drivers you would disable
> (comment out) the Jessie repositories again.
>
> I think the last one is the easiest and safest way to get the
> drivers. A perfectionist could argue, that additionally one
> should leave enabled the non-free branch of jessie-security
> to be on the safe side. But I guess now I started nit-picking
> at a subatomic level. :P
>
> TL;DR:
> Enable Jessie; install fglrx et al.; disable Jessie; cigar. :D
>
> > TIA & have a nice sunday :)
>
> You are very welcome, and the same to you. :)
>
> Regards
> Urban
>
>
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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 83

[Irrwahn]

On Sun, 15 May 2016 13:20:47 -0400,   Fsmithred wrote:
> I have the following file (or equivalent) any time I have more than one 
> release enabled in sources.list:
> 
> cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00defaultrelease
> APT::Default-Release "jessie";
> 
> That way, only packages from jessie will be installed unless I use the -t 
> option to name a different release.

Ah, a very nice addition! Totally forgot about that option. 
There are always oh-so-many ways to achieve a thing in *nix. :)

Regards
Urban

P.S.: 
Is it just my mail client messing things up, or is the threading 
in DNG badly borked as of lately for other readers too?


> On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Irrwahn  > wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 15 May 2016 15:39:03 +0200, Emninger wrote:
> > Am Sun, 15 May 2016 12:00:01 +
> > schrieb Irrwahn mailto:irrw...@freenet.de>>:
> > [...]
> >
> >> As I already mentioned in an earlier message, I need the
> >> non-free catalyst fglrx driver, which for reasons beyond my
> >> knowledge is currently not available in neither testing nor
> >> unstable. So I pull that one from Jessie.
> 
> 
> 
> > Just one practical question: I notice the fglrx problem as well. How
> > can i add it to my repositories? Reactivating Jessie?
> >
> > There would be the way to download it manually from the debian site and
> > install with gdebi or apt, wouldn't it?
> 
> In principle, I see (at least) three viable ways.
> 
> First option would be the one you mentioned: Manually download
> the Jessie packages (it's more than one!). I consider this the
> most messy and least convenient method.
> 
> The second method would be to leave both Jessie and Ascii in
> sources.list. However, to make this foolproof one might have
> to additionally edit the apt preferences file, hence digging
> down the apt-pinning rabbit hole. This option has the charm
> that you could leave it that way and benefit pick the best of
> both releases. However, I'm afraid I'd probably mess up big
> time, if I tried to lead you trough this from just the top of
> my head, right now.
> 
> The third method (which I would prefer) starts out like #2,
> but after you installed the fglrx drivers you would disable
> (comment out) the Jessie repositories again.
> 
> I think the last one is the easiest and safest way to get the
> drivers. A perfectionist could argue, that additionally one
> should leave enabled the non-free branch of jessie-security
> to be on the safe side. But I guess now I started nit-picking
> at a subatomic level. :P
> 
> TL;DR:
> Enable Jessie; install fglrx et al.; disable Jessie; cigar. :D
> 
> > TIA & have a nice sunday :)
> 
> You are very welcome, and the same to you. :)
> 
> Regards
> Urban

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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 83

[Go Linux]

On Sun, 5/15/16, Irrwahn  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 83
 To: "dng" 
 Date: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 12:43 PM
 
P.S.:
Is it just my mail client messing things up, or is the threading
in DNG badly borked as of lately for other readers too?



This thread as been borked from the git-go because of the Dng Digest subject.  
A reminder to digest readers . . . please change the subject line to that of 
the particular thread to which you are responding.

golinux
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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[Edward Bartolo]

Hi fsmithred,

First of all, thanks for replying and giving some feedback.

I used the text installer which I run for several times before I gave
up trying. Then, I used Debian's Jessie ISO which worked without
issues.

Edward

On 15/05/2016, . fsmithred  wrote:
> It could not have been one of my live isos, because refractainstaller
> doesn't do lvm.
>
> With the devuan beta isos, I've done both manual partitioning and automatic
> partitioning (to a single partition) and was not forced to use lvm in any
> case. On  the automatic partitioning, an extended partition is created for
> swap, but it's not lvm.
>
> Edward, did you use the graphical install or the text install? I find the
> text install to be easier. I can use the keyboard all the way through
> without having to switch back and forth from the mouse. The debian (and
> devuan) graphical installer is not a true graphical installer. (IMHO)
>
> Maybe you made a wrong turn somewhere. Mostly, I just hit ENTER to take the
> defaults.
>
> -fsr
>
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Go Linux  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 5/15/16, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
>>
>>  Subject: Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images
>>  To: "KatolaZ" 
>>  Cc: "dng" 
>>  Date: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 10:39 AM
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > When I tried to install Devuan 64 bit on a Pentium Dual Core, 3 GB
>> > DDR2, I couldn't get past the disk partitioner as it assumed I was
>> > using LVM. I never used LVM because it unnecessarily adds another
>> > layer of complexity that I deem not necessary on a family computer.
>> > This means, I always use plain ext4 partitions for my installations.
>> >
>> > I had to bypass the serious issue by using Debian Jessie 64
>> > installation iso instead.
>> >
>> > I am reposting as nobody actually reported any feedback on this issue.
>> >
>> > Edward
>> >
>>
>> 
>>
>> It's not clear exactly which iso were you trying to install.  One from
>> the
>> Devuan repos or the refracta unofficial live iso (which is the subject of
>> this thread)?  Could you please clarify?  Thanks.
>>
>> golinux
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 78

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 14 May 2016 23:00:36 +0200
 wrote:

> Am Sat, 14 May 2016 17:07:06 +
> schrieb Didier Kryn :

Hi emninger,

Could you please alter email subjects to reflect what you're actually
replying to? It helps those of us receiving the message to track
threads (client threading doesn't always work as expected) and to
search.

Your responses are so correct and succinct that it would be a shame if
they weren't searchable by title.

And while we're on the subject, thanks for trimming everything except
what you're responding to. A lot of digest users don't do that, making
their replies difficult or impossible to work with.

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Steve Litt]

On Sat, 14 May 2016 17:09:34 -0400
". fsmithred"  wrote:

> Zenity is somewhat of a dependency hog. In Refracta, we abandoned it a
> couple years ago and replaced it with Yad.

fsmithred,

Thanks for reminding me of Zenity, and informing me of Yad. These
programs enable my shellscripts to present a GUI face to the user,
without all the scaffolding you need to do in PyGTk and the like.

Given the nature of the average Devuan user, this could be a pretty
important capability.

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 15 May 2016 00:00:08 +0100
David Hare  wrote:


> That said, a "GUI Dialog" doesn't really fit a minimal system like
> this anyway.

I wouldn't count on that. For instance, Edward could have written his
network-manager killer in a shellscript plus Zenity or Yad, instead of
Lazarus. If he had, you'd need Zenity or Yad (depending on which he had
used) to run his program.
 
SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 05:39:17PM +0200, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> When I tried to install Devuan 64 bit on a Pentium Dual Core, 3 GB
> DDR2, I couldn't get past the disk partitioner as it assumed I was
> using LVM. I never used LVM because it unnecessarily adds another
> layer of complexity that I deem not necessary on a family computer.
> This means, I always use plain ext4 partitions for my installations.
> 
> I had to bypass the serious issue by using Debian Jessie 64
> installation iso instead.
> 

I have used Devuan Jessie Beta installer at least a dozen times, in
expert mode, and I am sure it does not try to use LVM. Maybe because I
insist in creating the partitions manually. 

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan Jessie Beta Live Minimal

[KatolaZ]

On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 03:22:21PM -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sat, 14 May 2016 17:09:34 -0400
> ". fsmithred"  wrote:
> 
> > Zenity is somewhat of a dependency hog. In Refracta, we abandoned it a
> > couple years ago and replaced it with Yad.
> 
> fsmithred,
> 
> Thanks for reminding me of Zenity, and informing me of Yad. These
> programs enable my shellscripts to present a GUI face to the user,
> without all the scaffolding you need to do in PyGTk and the like.
> 
> Given the nature of the average Devuan user, this could be a pretty
> important capability.
> 

I believe the "average" Devuan user would most probably not use a
minimal live image anyway :) I have checked and indeed zenity is a
dependency hell, which would install 194 more packages (we have less
than 360 packages in total in the minimal Devuan image...) and would
require about 300MB of additiona space (the unsquashed fs amounts to
about 680 MB, in total). In a word, it looks like a bloat, at least in
the context of *minimal* live images.

I am working instead to include a runlevel with support for espeakout
and brltty, which will require just a few megabytes and will be far
more useful than zenity.

HND

KatolaZ

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Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists

[Jaromil]

On Sun, 15 May 2016, marc wrote:

> http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/openrc-conversion.html

what's wrong with these guys to call themselves linuxmafia?

some of us are from places in which that word means prevarication,
violence, misery and corruption. I've never been entertained by such a
name, not even when it was about slackware packages. very bad taste.

ciao

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Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images

[aitor_czr]

Hi all,

El 15/05/16 a las 21:11, Edward Bartolo  escribió:

Hi fsmithred,

First of all, thanks for replying and giving some feedback.

I used the text installer which I run for several times before I gave
up trying. Then, I used Debian's Jessie ISO which worked without
issues.

Edward

On 15/05/2016, . fsmithred  wrote:

>It could not have been one of my live isos, because refractainstaller
>doesn't do lvm.
>
>With the devuan beta isos, I've done both manual partitioning and automatic
>partitioning (to a single partition) and was not forced to use lvm in any
>case. On  the automatic partitioning, an extended partition is created for
>swap, but it's not lvm.
>
>Edward, did you use the graphical install or the text install? I find the
>text install to be easier. I can use the keyboard all the way through
>without having to switch back and forth from the mouse. The debian (and
>devuan) graphical installer is not a true graphical installer. (IMHO)
>
>Maybe you made a wrong turn somewhere. Mostly, I just hit ENTER to take the
>defaults.
>
>-fsr
>
>
>On Sun, May 15, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Go Linux  wrote:
>

>>On Sun, 5/15/16, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
>>
>>  Subject: Re: [DNG] Unofficial Devuan live images
>>  To: "KatolaZ"
>>  Cc: "dng"
>>  Date: Sunday, May 15, 2016, 10:39 AM
>>

>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >When I tried to install Devuan 64 bit on a Pentium Dual Core, 3 GB
>> >DDR2, I couldn't get past the disk partitioner as it assumed I was
>> >using LVM. I never used LVM because it unnecessarily adds another
>> >layer of complexity that I deem not necessary on a family computer.
>> >This means, I always use plain ext4 partitions for my installations.
>> >
>> >I had to bypass the serious issue by using Debian Jessie 64
>> >installation iso instead.
>> >
>> >I am reposting as nobody actually reported any feedback on this issue.
>> >
>> >Edward
>> >

>>
>>
>>
>>It's not clear exactly which iso were you trying to install.  One from
>>the
>>Devuan repos or the refracta unofficial live iso (which is the subject of
>>this thread)?  Could you please clarify?  Thanks.
>>
>>golinux
>>


I'm working on the installers of the live-images (a work in progress):

http://www.gnuinos.org/devuan-installers/

@fsmithred:

I'll have a look at the refracta tools...

Cheers,

  Aitor.

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Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 15 May 2016 23:22:07 +0200
Jaromil  wrote:

> On Sun, 15 May 2016, marc wrote:
> 
> > http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/openrc-conversion.html  
> 
> what's wrong with these guys to call themselves linuxmafia?
> 
> some of us are from places in which that word means prevarication,
> violence, misery and corruption. I've never been entertained by such a
> name, not even when it was about slackware packages. very bad taste.

Hi Jaromil,

I know Rick personally, and I'm very sure he meant no offense to
anybody. Although he can be rough on people he disagrees with, I've
never heard him say anything bad about groups of people nor imply in
any way that he's a hoodlum nor a criminal.

Rick has held the linuxmafia.com domain since at least 1999:

http://jhauser.dyndns.org:8080/archives/html/svlug/1999-02/msg00341.html

The word "mafia" isn't particularly insulting in the US: It reminds
Boomer-age Americans of the TV show "Untouchables", Frank Nitti, and Al
Capone, the latter of which has come down through the ages as a sort of
folk hero.

I see your point: If the URL were "linuxcrips.com" or
"linuxbloods.org", most Americans would react pretty much like you did.
But I'm sure Rick meant no offense to anyone: It just doesn't have the
same connotation in America.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
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Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists

[Daniel Reurich]

On 16/05/16 10:26, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Sun, 15 May 2016 23:22:07 +0200 Jaromil  wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, 15 May 2016, marc wrote:
>> 
>>> http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Debian/openrc-conversion.html
>> 
>> what's wrong with these guys to call themselves linuxmafia?
>> 
>> some of us are from places in which that word means prevarication, 
>> violence, misery and corruption. I've never been entertained by
>> such a name, not even when it was about slackware packages. very
>> bad taste.
> 
> Hi Jaromil,
> 
> I know Rick personally, and I'm very sure he meant no offense to 
> anybody. Although he can be rough on people he disagrees with, I've 
> never heard him say anything bad about groups of people nor imply in 
> any way that he's a hoodlum nor a criminal.
> 
> Rick has held the linuxmafia.com domain since at least 1999:
> 
> http://jhauser.dyndns.org:8080/archives/html/svlug/1999-02/msg00341.html
>
>  The word "mafia" isn't particularly insulting in the US: It reminds 
> Boomer-age Americans of the TV show "Untouchables", Frank Nitti, and
> Al Capone, the latter of which has come down through the ages as a
> sort of folk hero.
> 
> I see your point: If the URL were "linuxcrips.com" or 
> "linuxbloods.org", most Americans would react pretty much like you
> did. But I'm sure Rick meant no offense to anyone: It just doesn't
> have the same connotation in America.
> 
> SteveT
> 
Al Capone may be a cult classic villain, one that no doubt has become
infamous, but folk hero??

I don't think folk hero is really a justifiable term in that instance.
Typically "folk heros" are those who have risen from obscurity to hero
status for saving/rescuing the common people from a great calamity or
oppression.  How did Al Capone champion the common peoples cause and
what great benefit did he bestow on society his society to deserve being
called a "folk hero".

That American TV/Hollywood want to paint him in a different light shows
just how corrupt that industry is - not surprising really given their
hand in the drafting of terrible treaties such as the TPPA.

Here in NZ "mafia" is still a negative term associated with
racketeering, money laundering, extortion and protectionism.

Regardless of the intent of "Linuxmafia" as
group/organisation/publication,  I think that name is an oxymoron and
given the connotations globally, probably not likely to be particularly
well received in some regions.

Daniel.





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Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists

[Florian Zieboll]

On Sun, 15 May 2016 23:22:07 +0200
Jaromil  wrote:

> prevarication, violence, misery and corruption

Depending on one's personal history, there are many more possibilities
to associate these characteristics with: church, (political) executive,
family... just to name a few of them. 

Personally, I'd have given preference to e.g. "Linux Syndicate", but
I think that giving a new spin to a misused / biased combination of
letters can also be an act of emancipation^^

Florian
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Re: [DNG] Brief OpenRC/Jessie Discussion on the linux-elitists lists

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 16 May 2016 01:18:34 +0200
Florian Zieboll  wrote:

> On Sun, 15 May 2016 23:22:07 +0200
> Jaromil  wrote:
> 
> > prevarication, violence, misery and corruption  
> 
> Depending on one's personal history,

Let me say it succinctly: I think Rick probably meant something like
"toughguys" or "mob" rather than anything criminal.

If I had a time machine, I'd go back to when he was thinking of buying
that domain (they cost $100 back then) and try to convince him not to
buy it. But of course that's hindsight. Before Jaromil's post I'd
never thought about that domain in any negative way. 

SteveT

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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 83

[Florian Zieboll]

On Sun, 15 May 2016 19:43:02 +0200
Irrwahn  wrote:

> On Sun, 15 May 2016 13:20:47 -0400,   Fsmithred wrote:
> > I have the following file (or equivalent) any time I have more than
> > one release enabled in sources.list:
> > 
> > cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00defaultrelease
> > APT::Default-Release "jessie";
> > 
> > That way, only packages from jessie will be installed unless I use
> > the -t option to name a different release.


Be careful, this may interfere with your apt pinning. After having put
your suggested file into apt.conf.d, I added jessie-backports to my
sources.list and the following well-proven pin didn't take any effect:

Package: *
Pin: release a=jessie-backports
Pin-Priority: 200

Bug, or feature? Drove me nuts until I realized that I had added this
"default release" two hours earlier ;)

Florian

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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 83

[Ozi Traveller]

Also be careful if you happen to pin debian because both devuan and debian
both use jessie. I would suggest using stable for debian in preferences and
sources.list. and not the same pin-priority as devuan, similar to devuan
jessie-backports.

NB. remember to comment out APT::Default-Release "jessie"; line if you want
to upgrade to ascii as well.

On Mon, May 16, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Florian Zieboll  wrote:

> On Sun, 15 May 2016 19:43:02 +0200
> Irrwahn  wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 15 May 2016 13:20:47 -0400,   Fsmithred wrote:
> > > I have the following file (or equivalent) any time I have more than
> > > one release enabled in sources.list:
> > >
> > > cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/00defaultrelease
> > > APT::Default-Release "jessie";
> > >
> > > That way, only packages from jessie will be installed unless I use
> > > the -t option to name a different release.
>
>
> Be careful, this may interfere with your apt pinning. After having put
> your suggested file into apt.conf.d, I added jessie-backports to my
> sources.list and the following well-proven pin didn't take any effect:
>
> Package: *
> Pin: release a=jessie-backports
> Pin-Priority: 200
>
> Bug, or feature? Drove me nuts until I realized that I had added this
> "default release" two hours earlier ;)
>
> Florian
>
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Re: [DNG] Dng Digest, Vol 20, Issue 78

[Didier Kryn]

Le 15/05/2016 21:15, Steve Litt a écrit :

On Sat, 14 May 2016 23:00:36 +0200
 wrote:


Am Sat, 14 May 2016 17:07:06 +
schrieb Didier Kryn :

Hi emninger,

Could you please alter email subjects to reflect what you're actually
replying to? It helps those of us receiving the message to track
threads (client threading doesn't always work as expected) and to
search.

Your responses are so correct and succinct that it would be a shame if
they weren't searchable by title.

And while we're on the subject, thanks for trimming everything except
what you're responding to. A lot of digest users don't do that, making
their replies difficult or impossible to work with.

SteveT



+1

This is exasperating. Maybe emails with this subject are the kind 
of thing which could be automatically "moderated" out.


Didier

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