Re: [DNG] OT de.wikipedia
Michael schrieb: >Liebe Mitstreiter, >könntet ihr bitte den Artikel devuan in >https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devuan >anschauen, ergänzen, überarbeiten? Wikipedia ist die freie Enzyklopädie, also du kannst den Artikel zu schreiben. Übrigens, der Artikel [en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devuan] enthält Häresie: "Devuan does provide systemd, but it is not the default init system." Es tut nicht, wir haben systemd-pinning. Mitt P.S. I hope, you understand my broken Deutsch :) ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd==bad
On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 02:38:56PM +, KatolaZ wrote: > On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 03:22:27PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > > [cut] > > > > > Katolaz, don't you recall how many times we've read about "The > > year of the Linux Desktop", which never happened? And don't you > > remember Gnome 3 made the desktop look like a tablet? > > > > Yes, I do remember very well. That's why I still don't understand the > crusade to "conquer the desktop", or worse "to dominate mobile > systems". As the original crusades, those are quite pointless :) Though, after all, whatever crusades THEY have took to conquer... Why it should bother me, you, us??? Why should it make me into DEEP frustration? Because it's just FREE of cost??? WHATT... Thus I ought to take it?.. srsly? KatolaZ, sorry, you are unrelated... just me, can't sustain it anymore, it's my personal soul's problems, for sure... > > > Gnome tries to build a desktop for the general public which > > would be based on Systemd-Linux, but I'm afraid this ship is going > > to sink while hunting a white whale. Thanks to Devuan, we're jumping > > to another ship and will watch the wreck from a distance. > > > > That said, I admit they have arguments for everybody, and the > > market of servers would help them a lot in gaining domination over > > Linux. > > > > I am not sure whether they can really push their stuff widely on the > servers. The vast majority of people I know who work with Linux > servers are doing the best they can to keep old Wheezy intallations, > and those who can't are switching to something else (either Devuan, or > other systemd-free distros, or FreeBSD). > > I admit that my (very restricted) social circle might be a bit > peculiar, though :) For example, my friends are split: the older generations are looking for a viable alternative for a migration, or have already migrated (FreeBSD, yes) their desktops and servers, the young generation can't comprehend (the comlexity for ex.) yet, so they are happy to adopt systemd and are boasting about that, since I personally didn't adopt it at the moment and still fighting it's installation on our servers. So, young admins are slowly just installing what's given and it just works for them... Unknown systemd is no worse for equally unknown world of sysvinit+shell_scripts for the young generation. Bad news for us... > > HND > > KatolaZ > > -- > [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] > [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] > [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] > [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Anon.Udmvt I would not eat the shit. Even if it's free of cost. Even if it has it's freedoms. Even if it is a market crusade plan somewhere. Whatever. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Claywand dosplay bananager
Teodoro Santoni wrote: >> What did they replace X11 forwarding with? (I shudder to ask) > > Nothing afaik. That would be the "we don't use it, therefore we don't care if anyone else uses it - we'll just declare it broken behaviour and drop it" approach to backwards compatibility. Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> Is that what I get with ssh -X? I've noticed it's sometimes quite klunky. > > ssh -X is basically 'straight X' but with the protocol traffic > transparently forwarded over the SSH connection and some convenience > features like "setting up a suitable DISPLAY" and > "handling MIT magic cookie authentication". > > For this to work well (for applications where there's any hope that it > could work well), the remote system needs to have good upstream > bandwidth to "the internet" which will usually not be the case if ADSL > is being used. I disagree. I've used remote X forwarding many times, and found it ran "quite nicely" with 400kbps upstream from my home ADSL. Obviously it depends what you are doing, and "graphics intensive" stuff slows enormously, but for anything "text and widgets" based it's like being connected locally - that's the power of passing the instructions (draw me a box with these settings) vs passing the result (draw this rectangular array of pixels). I also used to use VNC based connections (remote admin of my Mac), and yes, that was "quite slow" - as in being able to do something and then watch the screen update in bands, even with bandwidth saving features (small display, limited bit depth) turned on. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] My virtual terminals seem amiss
Hello, I noticed today, upon trying to rebuild my nvidia module, that I have no login available on the virtual terminals customarily available via the keypress [CTRL][ALT]+(F1-F8 keys). The keypresses work, showing console output, but there is no "login:" /etc/inittab is here: $ egrep -v '(#|^$)' /etc/inittab id:2:initdefault: si::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS ~~:S:wait:/sbin/sulogin l0:0:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 0 l1:1:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 1 l2:2:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 2 l3:3:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 3 l4:4:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 4 l5:5:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 5 l6:6:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 6 z6:6:respawn:/sbin/sulogin ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t1 -a -r now pf::powerwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail start pn::powerfailnow:/etc/init.d/powerfail now po::powerokwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail stop 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3 4:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4 5:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5 6:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6 And this is /proc/cmdline. Nothing odd in there either: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-amd64 \ root=UUID=903c83ee-aa77-41c3-aaac-548a4f280c45 ro ipv6.disable=1 Any thoughts how to get this working? Thanks ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Claywand dosplay bananager
Simon Hobson writes: [...] > Rainer Weikusat wrote: > >>> Is that what I get with ssh -X? I've noticed it's sometimes quite klunky. >> >> ssh -X is basically 'straight X' but with the protocol traffic >> transparently forwarded over the SSH connection and some convenience >> features like "setting up a suitable DISPLAY" and >> "handling MIT magic cookie authentication". >> >> For this to work well (for applications where there's any hope that it >> could work well), the remote system needs to have good upstream >> bandwidth to "the internet" which will usually not be the case if ADSL >> is being used. > > I disagree. I've used remote X forwarding many times, and found it ran > "quite nicely" with 400kbps upstream from my home ADSL. Obviously it > depends what you are doing, and "graphics intensive" stuff slows > enormously, but for anything "text and widgets" based it's like being > connected locally Disagreeing with facts is a little pointless. X-over-TCP worked nicely for me in a LAN. While the computer I was using remotely was connected via 2MBit leased-line, 'ssh -X' worked ok, the compression delivering a notable improvement. Going over a 'BT business' DSL-connection required more aggressive/ targetted compression (using dxpc) for me to be able to use (non-GTK) Emacs running on the remote machine fluently. This will obviously vary depending on the bandwidth that's actually available but the rule-of-thumb is that X will work well over a network with 1MBit or more up and down. NB: 'Work well' is supposed to mean that one can't usually tell which applications are running locally and which remotely (except by knowing, of course). ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] A heads up about xfce's future (Open Source's future also)
On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 03:52:19PM -0600, Nate Bargmann wrote: > This is sad, especially in the context that at one point the GNOME/GTK > developers didn't know or care about apps outside of their project: [...] > It is telling that a developer of software > ostensibly for the Linux desktop is unaware of any project outside the > project he is involved in. This unfortunate state of affairs exists > when development is not coming from the community but from hired guns > whose interest is apparently not aligned with the community. It is also > unfortunate that there was apparently no interest in how changes > affected other projects. > So, it is clear need for all the strategic points in the OpenSource world, such as libraries, such as GTK, QT for example, be forked by the community for the only reason to maintain and control it by the community and for the community. Somebody could help this to be announced and be spoken outside of this list? This is a political problem, and it's resolution will define the future of the Open Source as a phenomenon. -- Anon.Udmvt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Claywand dosplay bananager
2016-03-06 21:33 GMT+01:00, Rainer Weikusat : > Not at all, actually. VNC based on keeping two bitmapped displays in > sync by sending by sending 'bitmap updates' from the remote machine to > 'the local display'. Even in a LAN environment (disclaimer: Haven't used > it since 2004) this is a clunky mechanism which sucks badly. OTOH, X > uses a higher-level protocol where clients send "drawing commands" to an > X server which executes them on their behalf. It's just that this is one > of these "obsolete technologies" (2D graphics? Nobody uses that!) > so-called 'modern desktop applications' don't use: These do all their > rendering on the client (at least reportedly) and then send bitmaps to > the X server. As this still sucks badly, "network transparency" is > essentially useless for wayland as "like VNC" is the best it will ever > become. Indeed: being Wayland a 'whatever' which puts bitmaps somewhere over your displays, syncing your displays to the ideas your applications wish to render, it's very akin to VNC which is a protocol for sending bitmaps updates over the network, syncing a local machine's display(s) with a remote one's. It sucks but you can't prevent it: the corporation which thinks is in charge for mantaining X, Red Hat, sees a bunch of clumsy but active devs in the toolkit world, while seeing two aging developers (and some vultures orbiting...) working on X. So the idea is to come up with another standards clash between window managers for network transparency and IPC (and audio, and printers, and scanners, and input devices, you name it) on the toolkit side, while the main API for drawing is under control. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] My virtual terminals seem amiss
dev writes: > Hello, > I noticed today, upon trying to rebuild my nvidia module, that I have > no login available on the virtual terminals customarily available via > the keypress [CTRL][ALT]+(F1-F8 keys). > > The keypresses work, showing console output, but there is no "login:" > > /etc/inittab is here: > > $ egrep -v '(#|^$)' /etc/inittab > id:2:initdefault: > si::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS > ~~:S:wait:/sbin/sulogin > l0:0:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 0 > l1:1:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 1 > l2:2:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 2 > l3:3:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 3 > l4:4:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 4 > l5:5:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 5 > l6:6:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 6 > z6:6:respawn:/sbin/sulogin > ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t1 -a -r now > pf::powerwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail start > pn::powerfailnow:/etc/init.d/powerfail now > po::powerokwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail stop > 1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 > 2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 > 3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3 > 4:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4 > 5:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5 > 6:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6 You aren't per chance running a display manager on tty1 (default changed a while ago because someone 'felt' that running the GUI on anything but the first VT was 'morally inappropriate') in a runlevel different from 2 or 3? /sbin/runlevel should print the current and previous runlevels. You could also look if there are actually any gettys runnning, ps faux | grep get[t] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] X forwarding over SSH over ADSL (Was: Claywand dosplay bananager)
Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> I disagree. I've used remote X forwarding many times, and found it ran >> "quite nicely" with 400kbps upstream from my home ADSL. Obviously it >> depends what you are doing, and "graphics intensive" stuff slows >> enormously, but for anything "text and widgets" based it's like being >> connected locally > > Disagreeing with facts is a little pointless. X-over-TCP worked nicely > for me in a LAN. While the computer I was using remotely was connected > via 2MBit leased-line, 'ssh -X' worked ok, the compression delivering a > notable improvement. Going over a 'BT business' DSL-connection required > more aggressive/ targetted compression (using dxpc) for me to be able to > use (non-GTK) Emacs running on the remote machine fluently. Err, aren't *you* now disagreeing with facts ? ;-) It's a *fact* that I found X via SSH with only 400kbps upstream from the far end quite workable as long as there weren't bitmaps involved. For text work it was "like being there" for me as I remember - can't check now as I don't have an ADSL line, and hardly anything actually running X. I'm a vi person though, so that may well make a difference - how "chatty" is emacs ? It may also be a *fact* that for you it wasn't an acceptable experience. That doesn't mean that (as you put it) you cannot expect a usable experience with ADSL - and that's leaving aside the different ADSL services, such as those with 1Mbps+ upstream. I suspect some ADSL services may have higher latency than others, which may have a bigger impact on perceived performance than bandwidth. Perhaps better expressed as "you may or may not be happy with performance if ADSL is involved - depending on your task and your perception of performance". Or just YMMV ! But we're going off-topic now. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Is Devuan Jessie secure enough?
Hi, As I am slowly converting my installation into Devuan, I would like to ask what others use to access their bank accounts, to pay bills only and other money related activities. Until now I have used Debian Wheezy. Is DEVUAN secure enough for financial transactions? If Devuan has adequate security I can start using it to pay my bills online and to make my occasional purchase online. Edward ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd==bad
On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 17:16:32 +0400 anon.ud...@subscribed.udmvt.ru wrote: > For example, my friends are split: > the older generations are looking for a viable alternative for a > migration, or have already migrated (FreeBSD, yes) their desktops and > servers, the young generation can't comprehend (the comlexity for > ex.) yet, so they are happy to adopt systemd and are boasting about > that, since I personally didn't adopt it at the moment and still > fighting it's installation on our servers. > So, young admins are slowly just installing what's given and it just > works for them... Unknown systemd is no worse for equally unknown > world of sysvinit+shell_scripts for the young generation. Bad news > for us... I'd think twice before phrasing this as an age issue (the way PoetterPoser does). I've seen photos of (vdev creator) Jude Nelson, and he doesn't look like he's ready for a cane and suspenders. Also, I think it depends more on experience than age. I'd imagine a person, who had been in San Francisco during the Summer of Love, who just came to Linux in 2015, wouldn't care about his init. I'd also imagine a 21 year old just graduating college, who has been using Linux since 2004, would dumpster all systemd distros. Why this is important is that, to the extent this is perceived as an age thing (with the must-have pejorative "neckbeard" or "graybeard"), you give PoetterPoser more credibility when he characterizes systemd resistance as "you can't teach an old dog new tricks." SteveT Steve Litt March 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] systemd==bad
Steve Litt wrote: > Why this is important is that, to the extent this is perceived as an > age thing (with the must-have pejorative "neckbeard" or "graybeard"), > you give PoetterPoser more credibility when he characterizes systemd > resistance as "you can't teach an old dog new tricks." Indeed, and so can we come up with suitable monikers for "admins who know what they're doing" (ie those of us resisting SystemD), and "admins who don't know what they are doing" (the others) ? "Competent" and "clueless" might be going a bit too far. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] My virtual terminals seem amiss
On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 08:40:02 -0600 dev wrote: > Hello, > I noticed today, upon trying to rebuild my nvidia module, that I have > no login available on the virtual terminals customarily available via > the keypress [CTRL][ALT]+(F1-F8 keys). > > The keypresses work, showing console output, but there is no "login:" > > /etc/inittab is here: > > $ egrep -v '(#|^$)' /etc/inittab >id:2:initdefault: >si::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS >~~:S:wait:/sbin/sulogin >l0:0:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 0 >l1:1:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 1 >l2:2:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 2 >l3:3:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 3 >l4:4:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 4 >l5:5:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 5 >l6:6:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 6 >z6:6:respawn:/sbin/sulogin >ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t1 -a -r now >pf::powerwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail start >pn::powerfailnow:/etc/init.d/powerfail now >po::powerokwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail stop >1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 >2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 >3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3 >4:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4 >5:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5 >6:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6 > > > And this is /proc/cmdline. Nothing odd in there either: >BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-amd64 \ >root=UUID=903c83ee-aa77-41c3-aaac-548a4f280c45 ro ipv6.disable=1 > > > Any thoughts how to get this working? > Thanks Step 1 is this: ps ax | grep getty Here's my output: = [slitt@mydesk ~]$ ps ax | grep getty 621 tty6 Ss+0:00 agetty tty6 38400 linux 622 tty5 Ss+0:00 agetty tty5 38400 linux 626 tty4 Ss+0:00 agetty tty4 38400 linux 631 tty2 Ss+0:00 agetty tty2 38400 linux 634 tty3 Ss+0:00 agetty tty3 38400 linux 4873 pts/10 R+ 0:00 grep getty [slitt@mydesk ~]$ = However, I'm not using Devuan right now, so your mileage may vary. Notice I'm running "agetty", not "getty", which is respawned in your inittab. I don't remember ever seeing a Linux (as oppposed to BSD) that ran "getty" instead of "agetty". You might need to change that. Also, seeing whether your gettys, each of which represents one virtual terminal, are running. If not, that tells you something. SteveT Steve Litt March 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] My virtual terminals seem amiss
On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 12:28:12PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote: > On Mon, 7 Mar 2016 08:40:02 -0600 > dev wrote: > > > Hello, > > I noticed today, upon trying to rebuild my nvidia module, that I have > > no login available on the virtual terminals customarily available via > > the keypress [CTRL][ALT]+(F1-F8 keys). > > > > The keypresses work, showing console output, but there is no "login:" > > > > /etc/inittab is here: > > > > $ egrep -v '(#|^$)' /etc/inittab > >id:2:initdefault: > >si::sysinit:/etc/init.d/rcS > >~~:S:wait:/sbin/sulogin > >l0:0:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 0 > >l1:1:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 1 > >l2:2:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 2 > >l3:3:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 3 > >l4:4:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 4 > >l5:5:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 5 > >l6:6:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 6 > >z6:6:respawn:/sbin/sulogin > >ca:12345:ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t1 -a -r now > >pf::powerwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail start > >pn::powerfailnow:/etc/init.d/powerfail now > >po::powerokwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail stop > >1:2345:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty1 > >2:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty2 > >3:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty3 > >4:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty4 > >5:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty5 > >6:23:respawn:/sbin/getty 38400 tty6 > > > > > > And this is /proc/cmdline. Nothing odd in there either: > >BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-amd64 \ > >root=UUID=903c83ee-aa77-41c3-aaac-548a4f280c45 ro ipv6.disable=1 > > > > > > Any thoughts how to get this working? > > Thanks > > > Step 1 is this: > > ps ax | grep getty > > Here's my output: > > = > [slitt@mydesk ~]$ ps ax | grep getty > 621 tty6 Ss+0:00 agetty tty6 38400 linux > 622 tty5 Ss+0:00 agetty tty5 38400 linux > 626 tty4 Ss+0:00 agetty tty4 38400 linux > 631 tty2 Ss+0:00 agetty tty2 38400 linux > 634 tty3 Ss+0:00 agetty tty3 38400 linux > 4873 pts/10 R+ 0:00 grep getty > [slitt@mydesk ~]$ > = > > However, I'm not using Devuan right now, so your mileage may vary. Here;s mine, and I *am* running Devuan jessie: hendrik@notlookedfor:~$ ps ax | grep getty 1951 tty1 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty1 1952 tty2 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty2 1953 tty3 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty3 1954 tty4 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty4 1955 tty5 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty5 1956 tty6 Ss+0:00 /sbin/getty 38400 tty6 30356 pts/1S+ 0:00 grep getty hendrik@notlookedfor:~$ done from a Roxterm in xcfe. -- hendrik > Notice I'm running "agetty", not "getty", which is respawned in your > inittab. I don't remember ever seeing a Linux (as oppposed to BSD) that > ran "getty" instead of "agetty". You might need to change that. And it seems I am running getty. No problems noted here. -- hendrik On my Debian wheezy, though, whenever I gat a kernel upgrade, all my text terminals in ctl-alt-F1 through 6 disappear, and don't come back until a reboot. -- hendrik > > Also, seeing whether your gettys, each of which represents one virtual > terminal, are running. If not, that tells you something. > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > March 2016 featured book: Quit Joblessness: Start Your Own Business > http://www.troubleshooters.com/startbiz > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Accessibility: Does the devuan installer default to ALSA?
Hi Devuan, I'm following the blinux mailing list, for blind users of Linux, and there is a report of someone having trouble with pulse audio. So that leads me to ask, will devuan default to ALSA in the installer and base installation? I'm also curious if ALSA is sufficient for the various screen readers and other accessbility software people are using. cheers, Joel -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Claywand dosplay bananager
On Sun, Mar 06, 2016 at 10:06:18PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote: > > ssh -X is basically 'straight X' but with the protocol traffic > transparently forwarded over the SSH connection and some convenience > features like "setting up a suitable DISPLAY" and > "handling MIT magic cookie authentication". > > For this to work well (for applications where there's any hope that it > could work well), the remote system needs to have good upstream > bandwidth to "the internet" which will usually not be the case if ADSL > is being used. Running dxpc over a ssh-tunneled TCP connection worked > satisfactorily for me for this case. How do I run dxpc over ssh? It seems like something I should try. -- hendrik > > > As for the straight X protocol? Soe years ago it seems to have become > > so paranoid I can't get it to talk to a server that isn't on the same > > machine as the client. > > "Nowadays", X servers don't usually listen on TCP ports by default > anymore but this can be enabled. But I consider 'ssh -X' or 'ssh + dxpc' > a better solution as both support transparent compression which is very > helpful with 'remote X'. > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] X forwarding over SSH over ADSL (Was: Claywand dosplay bananager)
On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 04:57:28PM +, Simon Hobson wrote: It's a *fact* that I found X via SSH with only 400kbps upstream from the far end quite workable as long as there weren't bitmaps involved. For text work it was "like being there" for me as I remember - can't check Äh, why do you need X11 forwarding for text work? For me text work is shell/vi/mutt/screen. I’m using these programs daily without the need for X11 forwarding. But for things like thunderbird or wireshark you’ll need a good network with low latency or it isn’t fun. In my experience X11 forwarding is only really working with LAN connections (and I mean the complete X11 forwarding feature set). Here it gets ugly really fast. And as far as I was told things like VNC or RDP are an improvement for remote desktops and WAN connections. And yes, I did rdp via modem connections. Shade and sweet water! Stephan -- | Stephan Seitz E-Mail: s...@fsing.rootsland.net | | Public Keys: http://fsing.rootsland.net/~stse/keys.html | smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] X forwarding over SSH over ADSL
Stephan Seitz writes: > On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 04:57:28PM +, Simon Hobson wrote: >> It's a *fact* that I found X via SSH with only 400kbps upstream from >> the far end quite workable as long as there weren't bitmaps >> involved. For text work it was "like being there" for me as I >> remember - can't check > > Äh, why do you need X11 forwarding for text work? For me text work is > shell/vi/mutt/screen. I’m using these programs daily without the need > for X11 forwarding. > > But for things like thunderbird or wireshark you’ll need a good > network with low latency or it isn’t fun. > > In my experience X11 forwarding is only really working with LAN > connections That's a non-sequitur: You need more bandwidth than usually available outside of a LAN as soon as you start using "misbehaving applications" (like Firefox or Wireshark) who effectively (by virtue of the toolkit they using) use the X server as "dumb framebuffer manager" they can uploaded pre-rendered bitmaps to. But that's not caused by X but by applications not using it sensibly. As I already wrote, running a graphical non-GTK+ emacs remotely (the Debian package is called emacsNN-lucid, emacs23-lucid for the system I'm currently using, works very nicely. And this includes seriously 'advanced' stuff such that clicking on a URL in a window used by the remotely running editor causes the URL to be 'opened' in a locally running Firefox. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] X forwarding over SSH over ADSL
On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 06:50:26PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote: That's a non-sequitur: You need more bandwidth than usually available outside of a LAN as soon as you start using "misbehaving applications" (like Firefox or Wireshark) who effectively (by virtue of the toolkit they using) use the X server as "dumb framebuffer manager" they can uploaded pre-rendered bitmaps to. But that's not caused by X but by applications not using it sensibly. Okay, I never was an emacs user, so my only X11 applications are firefox, wireshark, and libreoffie. Thanks for the clarification. Stephan -- | Stephan Seitz E-Mail: s...@fsing.rootsland.net | | Public Keys: http://fsing.rootsland.net/~stse/keys.html | smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Claywand dosplay bananager
Hendrik Boom writes: > On Sun, Mar 06, 2016 at 10:06:18PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> >> ssh -X is basically 'straight X' but with the protocol traffic >> transparently forwarded over the SSH connection and some convenience >> features like "setting up a suitable DISPLAY" and >> "handling MIT magic cookie authentication". >> >> For this to work well (for applications where there's any hope that it >> could work well), the remote system needs to have good upstream >> bandwidth to "the internet" which will usually not be the case if ADSL >> is being used. Running dxpc over a ssh-tunneled TCP connection worked >> satisfactorily for me for this case. > > How do I run dxpc over ssh? It seems like something I should try. I was using a dxssh script, - #!/bin/sh # exec ssh -C -L 4000:127.0.0.1:4000 "$@" - 4000 is the default dxpc TCP port. The connection sequences (as far as I remember) was 1. dxssh 2. On remote, dxpc -f 3. Use ~ followed by ^Z to stop the ssh process (~ is the ssh escape character. It has to be the first character of a new line. If the first attempt to background ssh doesn't work, press enter and try again). 4. On local, dxpc -f 127.0.0.1 5. Continue the ssh session with fg. 6. On remote, export DISPLAY=:8 (or DISPLAY=unix:8 according to the documentation). ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] X forwarding over SSH over ADSL
On 03/07/2016 08:57 PM, Stephan Seitz wrote: > On Mon, Mar 07, 2016 at 06:50:26PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> That's a non-sequitur: You need more bandwidth than usually available >> outside of a LAN as soon as you start using "misbehaving applications" >> (like Firefox or Wireshark) who effectively (by virtue of the toolkit >> they using) use the X server as "dumb framebuffer manager" they can >> uploaded pre-rendered bitmaps to. But that's not caused by X but by >> applications not using it sensibly. > > Okay, I never was an emacs user, so my only X11 applications are > firefox, wireshark, and libreoffie. > > Thanks for the clarification. > > Stephan For Firefox, I'd run it locally and use ssh as a SOCKS5 proxy with the -D option. That gives remote network access but not files. sshfs would be needed for file access like with LibreOffice. For Wireshark, I'd still use ssh, but it's more complicated. I'd run Wireshark locally and capture the packet data using tcpdump + sudo. This works with bash but you can use a FIFO instead if portability is needed: wireshark -k -i <( ssh -fq -i ~/.ssh/key_rsa \ 'sudo tcpdump -lqi eth0 -w - "not port 22"' ) Prerequisites are setting up keys (with an agent) and sudo (for just that command with just those options) both non-interactive. Also, the tcpdump expression to select packets needs to exclude the traffic to wireshark. Actually, even locally you can do something like that with Wireshark minus ssh to avoid running it as root. For LibreOffice, I'd copy the data locally or use sshfs to mount the remote account or both. Regards, Lars ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accessibility: Does the devuan installer default to ALSA?
On 08/03/16 06:45, Joel Roth wrote: > Hi Devuan, > > I'm following the blinux mailing list, for blind users of > Linux, and there is a report of someone having trouble with > pulse audio. So that leads me to ask, will devuan default to > ALSA in the installer and base installation? I'm also > curious if ALSA is sufficient for the various screen readers > and other accessbility software people are using. If pulseaudio is installed, it uses Alsa. Currently we haven't excised pulseaudio (yet), but there is a possibility we may look to either doing that or at least maintaining a coherent option for using alsa instead. With regards to whether the accessibility software (or any audio producing or consuming software for that matter) uses alsa is largely a matter of whether that support is compiled in by default these days. -- Daniel Reurich Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd. 021 797 722 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] X forwarding over SSH over ADSL (Was: Claywand dosplay bananager)
Stephan Seitz wrote: > Äh, why do you need X11 forwarding for text work? For me text work is > shell/vi/mutt/screen. I’m using these programs daily without the need for X11 > forwarding. I don't, but sometimes it just happens that way. > And as far as I was told things like VNC or RDP are an improvement for remote > desktops and WAN connections. And yes, I did rdp via modem connections. VNC is lousy over anything but a very fast link, it's just a remote framebuffer - anything painted to the screen is bit copied to the client which is bandwidth intensive. It's what underlies Apple's emote control option, and running over a low link (eg 400kbps ADSL uplink) it's painfully slow - think "scroll a window, sit back and wait while the screen updates". AIUI, RDP is very much like X - other than painting bitmaps and such things, updates are done by passing the primitives to the display server to be drawn. So instead of sending a few hundred or a few thousand bytes of bitmap to draw a rectangle, the instruction to draw a rectangle of a specific type and size at a specific place is sent. That's why it works well over low bandwidth connections. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Is Devuan Jessie secure enough?
On 08/03/16 06:09, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi, > > As I am slowly converting my installation into Devuan, I would like to > ask what others use to access their bank accounts, to pay bills only > and other money related activities. I use iceweasel - on my wheezy laptop currently (but that's only because it's a pain to change and losing NetworkManager will hurt because it made vpn's easy and we don't have any easy systemd free replacement for that yet). > > Until now I have used Debian Wheezy. Is DEVUAN secure enough for > financial transactions? If Devuan has adequate security I can start > using it to pay my bills online and to make my occasional purchase > online. Your biggest security risk is the web browser, and given that systemd security risks/protections are relatively unknown I'd suggest that Devuan Jessie is a much more known quantity and secure then Debian Jessie, and very much on par if not better then Debian Wheezy. > > Edward > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -- Daniel Reurich Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd. 021 797 722 signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] OT: Assembly resources
Here are even more: Info on SysV ABI: http://www.x86-64.org/documentation/abi.pdf amd64 registers: http://www.logix.cz/michal/devel/amd64-regs/ x86 opcode and instruction reference: http://ref.x86asm.net/ Thanks to genss from LQ. All links are collected in the thread on LQ: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/programming-9/assembly-resources-4175573485/ Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] My virtual terminals seem amiss
On 03/07/2016 09:40 AM, dev wrote: Hello, I noticed today, upon trying to rebuild my nvidia module, that I have no login available on the virtual terminals customarily available via the keypress [CTRL][ALT]+(F1-F8 keys). And this is /proc/cmdline. Nothing odd in there either: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-3.16.0-4-amd64 \ root=UUID=903c83ee-aa77-41c3-aaac-548a4f280c45 ro ipv6.disable=1 Any thoughts how to get this working? Thanks ___ Have you tried adding 'nomodeset' to the boot command? Which nvidia card are you using? -fsr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Is Devuan Jessie secure enough?
On Tue, Mar 08, 2016 at 09:53:51AM +1300, Daniel Reurich wrote: > On 08/03/16 06:09, Edward Bartolo wrote: > > Hi, > > > > As I am slowly converting my installation into Devuan, I would like to > > ask what others use to access their bank accounts, to pay bills only > > and other money related activities. > > I use iceweasel - on my wheezy laptop currently (but that's only because > it's a pain to change and losing NetworkManager will hurt because it > made vpn's easy and we don't have any easy systemd free replacement for > that yet). > > > > Until now I have used Debian Wheezy. Is DEVUAN secure enough for > > financial transactions? If Devuan has adequate security I can start > > using it to pay my bills online and to make my occasional purchase > > online. > > Your biggest security risk is the web browser, and given that systemd > security risks/protections are relatively unknown I'd suggest that > Devuan Jessie is a much more known quantity and secure then Debian > Jessie, and very much on par if not better then Debian Wheezy. I'm using Devuan Jessie on my laptop, currently doing web stuff with Iceweasel. Yes, even online banking. I used to use chrome, but Google dropped support for chrome on my machine, since its a 32-bit Intel system. Anyone know how to tell roxterm not to use chrome as its default browser? I've told xfce, and it's now calling firefox, but roxterm still thinks that when I mouse onto a URL and click "open in browser" that I soud use chrome. I'd like to try Midori, but it lacks a few features I use extensively when browsing my own file system -- such as sorting directories alphabetcally, so it's easier to find files in the list, instead of randomly. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accessibility: Does the devuan installer default to ALSA?
On Tue, Mar 08, 2016 at 08:53:06AM +1300, Daniel Reurich wrote: > On 08/03/16 06:45, Joel Roth wrote: > > Hi Devuan, > > > > I'm following the blinux mailing list, for blind users of > > Linux, and there is a report of someone having trouble with > > pulse audio. So that leads me to ask, will devuan default to > > ALSA in the installer and base installation? I'm also > > curious if ALSA is sufficient for the various screen readers > > and other accessbility software people are using. Alsa by itself is great for espeakup/espeak. I believe that gnome3 in debian 8 uses speech-dispatcher which seems to in turn use pulseaudio by default, though this can be changed to alsa in /etc/speech-dispatcher/speechd.conf. Things seem to work fine after making that change and purging pulse, though I haven't tested things in this configuration extensively. I don't know about xfce/mate under devuan, though installing mate on my devuan box is on my to-do list. I would be surprised if I couldn't get rid of pulse there either. > > If pulseaudio is installed, it uses Alsa. Currently we haven't excised > pulseaudio (yet), but there is a possibility we may look to either doing > that or at least maintaining a coherent option for using alsa instead. That gets a huge yes vote from me! > With regards to whether the accessibility software (or any audio > producing or consuming software for that matter) uses alsa is largely a > matter of whether that support is compiled in by default these days. I concur. Greg > > > -- > Daniel Reurich > Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd. > 021 797 722 > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- web site: http://www.gregn.net gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc skype: gregn1 (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your contacts. -- Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Strange NIC reconfiguration after Suspend in Devuan+XFCE
> "Daniel" == Daniel Reurich writes: > On 07/03/16 16:22, David Kuehling wrote: >> Hi, >> >> just noticed that in Devuan after doing "Suspend" from the XFCE menu >> bar, my primary network interface is reconfigured with a new >> IP-Address retrieved via DHCP. DHCP server logs confirm that. >> >> However, I have *not* configured any interface to use DHCP! [..] > something else is running dhclient or similar then... > Do you have wicd installed? You're right, wicd is the culprit here. Removing all the wicd* packages, my interface now keeps its static IP address during Suspend&Resume. As a side effect, the XFCE tray has now stopped to display networking status (I won't miss it). thanks for the hint, cheers, David -- GnuPG public key: http://dvdkhlng.users.sourceforge.net/dk2.gpg Fingerprint: B63B 6AF2 4EEB F033 46F7 7F1D 935E 6F08 E457 205F ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Is Devuan Jessie secure enough?
Hi, Thanks for all your replies. So, it means Devuan is better than using Wheezy. Edward On 08/03/2016, Hendrik Boom wrote: > On Tue, Mar 08, 2016 at 09:53:51AM +1300, Daniel Reurich wrote: >> On 08/03/16 06:09, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > As I am slowly converting my installation into Devuan, I would like to >> > ask what others use to access their bank accounts, to pay bills only >> > and other money related activities. >> >> I use iceweasel - on my wheezy laptop currently (but that's only because >> it's a pain to change and losing NetworkManager will hurt because it >> made vpn's easy and we don't have any easy systemd free replacement for >> that yet). >> > >> > Until now I have used Debian Wheezy. Is DEVUAN secure enough for >> > financial transactions? If Devuan has adequate security I can start >> > using it to pay my bills online and to make my occasional purchase >> > online. >> >> Your biggest security risk is the web browser, and given that systemd >> security risks/protections are relatively unknown I'd suggest that >> Devuan Jessie is a much more known quantity and secure then Debian >> Jessie, and very much on par if not better then Debian Wheezy. > > I'm using Devuan Jessie on my laptop, currently doing web stuff with > Iceweasel. Yes, even online banking. > > I used to use chrome, but Google dropped support for chrome on my > machine, since its a 32-bit Intel system. > > Anyone know how to tell roxterm not to use chrome as its default > browser? I've told xfce, and it's now calling firefox, but roxterm > still thinks that when I mouse onto a URL and click "open in browser" > that I soud use chrome. > > I'd like to try Midori, but it lacks a few features I use extensively > when browsing my own file system -- such as sorting directories > alphabetcally, so it's easier to find files in the list, instead of > randomly. > > -- hendrik > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accessibility: Does the devuan installer default to ALSA?
Gregory Nowak wrote: > On Tue, Mar 08, 2016 at 08:53:06AM +1300, Daniel Reurich wrote: > > On 08/03/16 06:45, Joel Roth wrote: > > > Hi Devuan, > > > > > > I'm following the blinux mailing list, for blind users of > > > Linux, and there is a report of someone having trouble with > > > pulse audio. So that leads me to ask, will devuan default to > > > ALSA in the installer and base installation? I'm also > > > curious if ALSA is sufficient for the various screen readers > > > and other accessbility software people are using. > > Alsa by itself is great for espeakup/espeak. I believe that gnome3 in > debian 8 uses speech-dispatcher which seems to in turn use > pulseaudio by default, though this can be changed to alsa in > /etc/speech-dispatcher/speechd.conf. Things seem to work fine after > making that change and purging pulse, though I haven't tested things > in this configuration extensively. I don't know about xfce/mate under > devuan, though installing mate on my devuan box is on my to-do list. I > would be surprised if I couldn't get rid of pulse there either. > > If pulseaudio is installed, it uses Alsa. Currently we haven't excised > > pulseaudio (yet), but there is a possibility we may look to either doing > > that or at least maintaining a coherent option for using alsa instead. > > That gets a huge yes vote from me! I agree. As we are supporting choice of init subsystems, it is nice with audio, too, if we can offer users a base system that does not force a commitment to a layer above ALSA (PA) that grabs exclusive use of the audio device. I believe there are some clever configuration where PA gets only a virtual audio device for handling desktoppy things, leaving, ALSA and friends still accessible. Not sure whether that could be supported as a choice among several system audio profiles; it would be a secondary goal. > > With regards to whether the accessibility software (or any audio > > producing or consuming software for that matter) uses alsa is largely a > > matter of whether that support is compiled in by default these days. That's good to hear. So supporting accessibility during install may be in reach. cheers, Joel > Greg > > > > > > > > -- > > Daniel Reurich > > Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd. > > 021 797 722 > > > > > > > ___ > > Dng mailing list > > Dng@lists.dyne.org > > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > -- > web site: http://www.gregn.net > gpg public key: http://www.gregn.net/pubkey.asc > skype: gregn1 > (authorization required, add me to your contacts list first) > If we haven't been in touch before, e-mail me before adding me to your > contacts. > > -- > Free domains: http://www.eu.org/ or mail dns-mana...@eu.org > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Accessibility: Does the devuan installer default to ALSA?
Joel Roth wrote: > > So supporting accessibility during > install may be in reach. https://wiki.debian.org/accessibility#Debian_installer_accessibility -- Joel Roth ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
