[DNG] Status of security (and other) updates in Devuan

[dev1fanboy]

It come up recently in the debianfork channel about security updates 
and it seems there is no recommendation for this so far and I am 
wondering what the correct way to receive security updates in Devuan 
is. I'm wondering if security updates are included in merged or if 
that's more of a post-release thing.


I've found I can get the critical updates from the Debian security 
mirror and upgraded about two dozen packages that way, would this be 
the correct way to do things for now?


By having a look on packages.devuan.org I discovered that 
jessie-updates and jessie-backports exists there. I was able to upgrade 
one package using jessie-updates in my sources.list, would this be a 
sane way to get updates? Looking at jessie-backports I notice the 
Devuan debootstrap would be replaced by a Debian version, so I guess 
it's down to the user to figure out if using a backport is safe.



Cheers,

 
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Re: [DNG] dbus, Was Re: Systemd-free network-manager package

[Rainer Weikusat]

Isaac Dunham  writes:
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 07:36:08PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote:

[...]

>>  OO RPC system intended to enable long-running
>> applications to call methods implemented by other long-running
>> applications provided these other long-running applications run on the
>> same computer.
> 
>
> Your explanation is pretty good.
> But there are a very few more details that I thought should be mentioned:
>
> - Regarding 'long-running', it seems worthwhile to mention that D-Bus
> is the main *stateful* IPC protocol available.
> In other words, it is designed around the concept that you're dealing with
> programs that will not be restarted.
> This, apparently, makes it simpler to use, since rather than dealing with
> failures of the 'remote' process, you can simply ignore them because it's 
> irrecoverable anyhow.

s/irrecoverable anyhow/just a problem for users, so fuck it/

[...]

> - Regarding 'on the same computer', it's apparently supposed to be
> 'possible' to set up some method of forwarding over ssh.
> I saw references to this being already implemented in one of the threads
> Miroslav posted in; but as far as documentation goes, I see only a
> two and a half year old page mentioning it as a possible but untested
> solution.

It's obviously possible to relay between AF_UNIX and AF_INET stream
sockets, eg, I have a C program here (944 LOC) dedicated to doing just
(and do it fast) I wrote in order to connect two computers to the same
instance (and thus, URL database) of a web content classification
program but this really only works when the server is stateless because
the relaying program can then transparently reconnect to it. It also
doesn't turn a protocol designed to work by block memory copies into one
which will work sensibly/ efficiently over TCP, especially when latency
start to become measurable (eg, the RTT between Europe and the USA is ca
0.1s), segments are getting lost or there's only little effective
bandwidth available. And then, of course (I take your word for that), the
fantasy that programs are started on boot and keep running until the
heat death of the universe becomes absoluty untenable once more than
one computer is involved. And then, of course, simple forwarders provide
neither authentication nor integrity protection nor content
confidentiality. It's possible to work around that by using a real VPN
($person has a clue) or tunneling over ssh ($person is on a "baffle them
with bullshit" mission) but that's the point where the "workaround"
starts to become more complicated to maintain than the facility itself.

Lastly "everybody's darling is nobody's friend" (I'm afraid but I have
to quote myself here): A protocol which is design to be usable in any
conceivable situation will be an awkward choice for most actual
situations. I implemented a system for forwarding SNMP (v2 of course)
securely over the internet and query/ control printers speaking SNMP
over USB in the past. A D-BUS<->ASN.1 bridge would neatly fit into this
and take the pleasing impenetrability of the system to a whole new
level.
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Re: [DNG] netman packages

[Hendrik Boom]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 12:45:23PM +0100, aitor_czr wrote:
> Sorry, Hendrik, i forgot to checkout the gbp-master brach
> (git-buildpackage):
> 
> $ git clone https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman.git
> $ cd netman
> $ pristine-tar checkout ../netman_0.1.1~468c97d.orig.tar.bz2
> $ git checkout gbp-master
> $ git-buildpackage -tc --git-export-dir="../build-area"
> --git-pristine-tar --git-tag --git-ignore-branch
> 
> Cheers,
> 
>  Aitor.

Did that on a 32-bit machine.  Except for missing packages it depended 
on, various messagesa about unised variables, and about 200 blank 
lines after the message "Linkinh netman", it all went smoothly until:

Now signing changes and any dsc files...
 signfile netman_0.1.1~468c97d-jessie2.dsc Aitor Cuadrado Zubizarreta 

gpg: skipped "Aitor Cuadrado Zubizarreta ": 
secret key not available
gpg: /tmp/debsign.spl1F1J4/netman_0.1.1~468c97d-jessie2.dsc: clearsign 
failed: secret key not available
debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting
debuild: fatal error at line 1295:
running debsign failed
gbp:error: 'debuild -i -I -tc' failed: it exited with 29
hendrik@notlookedfor:~/dv/netman$ 

Looks like I now have to mess with secret keys.  How  to do this?

-- hendrik

P.S.  The packages I had to install first were:

pristine-tar
git-buildpackage
debhelper quilt libgtk2.0-dev fp-units-gfx-2.6.4 lazarus 
lazarus-ide-gtk2 lcl-nogui-1.2.4 lcl-utils-1.2.4 lcl-units-1.2.4 
python-all-dev

Is there any easy way to install all these without having to wait until 
it complains they are missing, and then aptitude install them comolaint 
by complaint?

By the way, the word-wrap on the git-build-package line was confusing 
for a moment or two.

-- hendrik


> 
> On 11/11/15 12:38, aitor_czr wrote:
> >Hi Hendrik,
> >
> >The latest version is in the following link:
> >
> >https://git.devuan.org/edbarx/netman/branches
> >
> >And here the debian branch and pristine-tar (updated):
> >
> >https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman/branches
> >
> >I updated also the packages:
> >
> >http://gnuinos.org/netman/
> >
> >But only in amd64, because i still can't use pbuilder (cowbuilder
> >fails in Devuan) and i haven't any computer in i386 to hand at
> >this moment. But you can build them in a very easy way:
> >
> >$ git clone https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman.git
> >$ cd netman
> >$ pristine-tar checkout ../netman_0.1.1~468c97d.orig.tar.bz2
> >$ git-buildpackage -tc --git-export-dir="../build-area"
> >--git-pristine-tar --git-tag --git-ignore-branch
> >
> >Hope this help,
> >
> >  Aitor.
> 

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Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package

[Brian Nash]

That's nice and all, but isn't this thread getting off topic?

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Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package

[Steve Litt]

On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 12:29:06 -0500
Brian Nash  wrote:

> That's nice and all, but isn't this thread getting off topic?
> 

Thanks for the netiquette lesson. Now just to help those of us who
possess neither eidetic memories, magical-threading email clients, nor
extra sensory perception, might we we know what you're referring to by
your word "That's", so we can judge for ourselves whether or not the
thread is getting off topic? 

I spoze this is just my own prejudice, but if I reply to something, I
keep just enough quoted context so all my references are understood
without researching the whole thread. If I want to say something
without reference, I start a new thread.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques
 of the Successful Technologist
http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques
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[DNG] (forwarded to mailinglist) Fwd: packaging Re: netman packages

[Godefridus Daalmans]

 Original Message 
Subject: packaging Re: [DNG] netman packages
Date: 2015-11-15 19:05
From: Godefridus Daalmans 
To: Hendrik Boom 
Cc: d...@dyne.org, Aitor 


On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 12:45:23PM +0100, aitor_czr wrote:

Sorry, Hendrik, i forgot to checkout the gbp-master brach
(git-buildpackage):

$ git clone https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman.git
$ cd netman
$ pristine-tar checkout ../netman_0.1.1~468c97d.orig.tar.bz2
$ git checkout gbp-master
$ git-buildpackage -tc --git-export-dir="../build-area"
--git-pristine-tar --git-tag --git-ignore-branch

Cheers,

 Aitor.


Did that on a 32-bit machine.  Except for missing packages it depended
on, various messagesa about unised variables, and about 200 blank
lines after the message "Linkinh netman", it all went smoothly until:

Now signing changes and any dsc files...
 signfile netman_0.1.1~468c97d-jessie2.dsc Aitor Cuadrado Zubizarreta

gpg: skipped "Aitor Cuadrado Zubizarreta ":
secret key not available
gpg: /tmp/debsign.spl1F1J4/netman_0.1.1~468c97d-jessie2.dsc: clearsign
failed: secret key not available
debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting
debuild: fatal error at line 1295:
running debsign failed
gbp:error: 'debuild -i -I -tc' failed: it exited with 29
hendrik@notlookedfor:~/dv/netman$


So it failed because you are not allowed to sign because only Aitor is.

Everybody can build a package, but only the maintainer can "sign off" on 
the result.


I think Hendrik that you have to try debuild without signing.

debuild -uc -us

or in your case

debuild -i -I -tc -uc -us

(I don't know what the -i or -I options do)
-uc = don't sign the resulting .changes file
-us = don't sign the resulting source package (I think that means the 
.dsc file)





Looks like I now have to mess with secret keys.  How  to do this?

Don't mess with them if you can avoid it :-)



-- hendrik

P.S.  The packages I had to install first were:

pristine-tar
git-buildpackage
debhelper quilt libgtk2.0-dev fp-units-gfx-2.6.4 lazarus
lazarus-ide-gtk2 lcl-nogui-1.2.4 lcl-utils-1.2.4 lcl-units-1.2.4
python-all-dev

Is there any easy way to install all these without having to wait until
it complains they are missing, and then aptitude install them comolaint
by complaint?


I'm writing a kind of HOWTO, but it has not been corrected yet, so it 
may be .. inaccurate or difficult to read, let's say.

You can read it, if you dare, at
https://git.devuan.org/fritsd/builders-howto/tree/master#README

(gitlab account holders only for the moment)

To answer your question, I had never heard of pristine-tar until Aitor 
mentioned it,
I forgot to put git-buildpackage in the manual because I lack experience 
with it,

debhelper and quilt and a few others are discussed in my HOWTO,
and the rest you get with
apt-get build-dep
(discussed in the HOWTO)
or with pbuilder and trial-and-error for new packages (not yet mentioned 
in the HOWTO)



Groeten,
Frits


By the way, the word-wrap on the git-build-package line was confusing
for a moment or two.

-- hendrik




On 11/11/15 12:38, aitor_czr wrote:
>Hi Hendrik,
>
>The latest version is in the following link:
>
>https://git.devuan.org/edbarx/netman/branches
>
>And here the debian branch and pristine-tar (updated):
>
>https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman/branches
>
>I updated also the packages:
>
>http://gnuinos.org/netman/
>
>But only in amd64, because i still can't use pbuilder (cowbuilder
>fails in Devuan) and i haven't any computer in i386 to hand at
>this moment. But you can build them in a very easy way:
>
>$ git clone https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman.git
>$ cd netman
>$ pristine-tar checkout ../netman_0.1.1~468c97d.orig.tar.bz2
>$ git-buildpackage -tc --git-export-dir="../build-area"
>--git-pristine-tar --git-tag --git-ignore-branch
>
>Hope this help,
>
>  Aitor.




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Re: [DNG] dbus, Was Re: Systemd-free network-manager package

[Rainer Weikusat]

Steve Litt  writes:
> Rainer Weikusat  wrote:
>> D-BUS is an OO RPC system intended to enable long-running
>> applications to call methods implemented by other long-running
>> applications provided these other long-running applications run on the
>> same computer. 
>
> Everybody ordering around everybody else's soldiers. What could
> POSSIBLY go wrong?

One of my pet theories about "software development" would be that code
complexity is self-limiting: The more complicated the solution to a
fairly simple problems happens to be, the less complicated the problems
solvable within the existing framework become. Eg, replacing the ca
20,000 LOC of the default Debian system startup system prior to systemd
with the (reportedly) more than 600,000 LOC systemd[*] is comprised of will
make it next to impossible to adapt the system to use cases not foreseen
by its authors because the amount of work necessary for doing so becomes
prohibitively expensive and because this work will become much more
difficult.

[*] The idea that increasing the amount of code involved with the task
of "starting less than a dozen programs" by a factor of 30 in order to
"improve the system" has decidedly "mad scientist" qualities ...
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[DNG] Extended partition

[shraptor]

Does vdev handle extended partitions properly?

Have anyone tried?

Does extended partitions require lvm2 package on linux?

/scooby
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Re: [DNG] netman packages

[Edward Bartolo]

Hi,

Regarding unused variables and any gcc compiler warnings my latest
version does not have them. I edited the code accordingly so that no
compiler warnings are issued. Please, use my latest git pushed version
on git.devuan.org.

Edward (netman's developer)

On 15/11/2015, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 12:45:23PM +0100, aitor_czr wrote:
>> Sorry, Hendrik, i forgot to checkout the gbp-master brach
>> (git-buildpackage):
>>
>> $ git clone https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman.git
>> $ cd netman
>> $ pristine-tar checkout ../netman_0.1.1~468c97d.orig.tar.bz2
>> $ git checkout gbp-master
>> $ git-buildpackage -tc --git-export-dir="../build-area"
>> --git-pristine-tar --git-tag --git-ignore-branch
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>  Aitor.
>
> Did that on a 32-bit machine.  Except for missing packages it depended
> on, various messagesa about unised variables, and about 200 blank
> lines after the message "Linkinh netman", it all went smoothly until:
>
> Now signing changes and any dsc files...
>  signfile netman_0.1.1~468c97d-jessie2.dsc Aitor Cuadrado Zubizarreta
> 
> gpg: skipped "Aitor Cuadrado Zubizarreta ":
> secret key not available
> gpg: /tmp/debsign.spl1F1J4/netman_0.1.1~468c97d-jessie2.dsc: clearsign
> failed: secret key not available
> debsign: gpg error occurred!  Aborting
> debuild: fatal error at line 1295:
> running debsign failed
> gbp:error: 'debuild -i -I -tc' failed: it exited with 29
> hendrik@notlookedfor:~/dv/netman$
>
> Looks like I now have to mess with secret keys.  How  to do this?
>
> -- hendrik
>
> P.S.  The packages I had to install first were:
>
> pristine-tar
> git-buildpackage
> debhelper quilt libgtk2.0-dev fp-units-gfx-2.6.4 lazarus
> lazarus-ide-gtk2 lcl-nogui-1.2.4 lcl-utils-1.2.4 lcl-units-1.2.4
> python-all-dev
>
> Is there any easy way to install all these without having to wait until
> it complains they are missing, and then aptitude install them comolaint
> by complaint?
>
> By the way, the word-wrap on the git-build-package line was confusing
> for a moment or two.
>
> -- hendrik
>
>
>>
>> On 11/11/15 12:38, aitor_czr wrote:
>> >Hi Hendrik,
>> >
>> >The latest version is in the following link:
>> >
>> >https://git.devuan.org/edbarx/netman/branches
>> >
>> >And here the debian branch and pristine-tar (updated):
>> >
>> >https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman/branches
>> >
>> >I updated also the packages:
>> >
>> >http://gnuinos.org/netman/
>> >
>> >But only in amd64, because i still can't use pbuilder (cowbuilder
>> >fails in Devuan) and i haven't any computer in i386 to hand at
>> >this moment. But you can build them in a very easy way:
>> >
>> >$ git clone https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman.git
>> >$ cd netman
>> >$ pristine-tar checkout ../netman_0.1.1~468c97d.orig.tar.bz2
>> >$ git-buildpackage -tc --git-export-dir="../build-area"
>> >--git-pristine-tar --git-tag --git-ignore-branch
>> >
>> >Hope this help,
>> >
>> >  Aitor.
>>
>
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Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package

[4ernov]

Thanks for this opinion.

I see you point here, but personally I'm a little bit on both sides here.

On the one hand, I really like to have a system where my personal
preferences are considered and preserved. It looks suboptimal, but I
built LFS for me for it on my main system. It works flawlessly for
almost 8 years already and taught me a lot. It's also the system I use
most of all.

But I also have some other devices as netbook, rpi-like board etc. and
unfortunately I have no time to keep them work with another custom
systems of my choice. I'd like to have good enough and fast to install
(and update) distribution, but without faults like systemd. I don't
think it's the only big problem here, but that's something beyond good
and evil for me.

On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 12:08:52 -0500
Steve Litt  wrote:
> I'm going to answer this question as an individual, which, while not
> responsive to your question about the Devuan project, might be of
> interest.
>
> To the extent convenient, I avoid dbus entanglements. This is why I
> *never* use Network-Manager. This is also one of several reasons I
> prefer the wonderful Openbox window manager to the equally wonderful
> LXDE wm, at least on my daily driver desktop.
>
> But I would *never* expect my distro to supply me a dbus-less computer:
> dbus has already been integrated into too much stuff to back out. I can
> easily run dbusless. Until I run any kind of GUI program, then that all
> goes out the window. Gotta love that Freedesktop.org.
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Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package

[4ernov]

Thank you for clarification.

On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 22:56:04 -0500,
Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> It is an aim, but there will likely alway be packages that
> require it.  Package developed specifically for Devuan usually do not
> require it.
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[DNG] Getting started with netman-gtk3

[aitor_czr]

I started a gui in gtk3 using cmake. I has only a button wich closes the 
window, so it's just started:


https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman-gtk3/tree/master/

I will not use Anjuta. I will use a text editor (emacs, geany...) and 
glade separately.


Cheers,

Aitor.
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Re: [DNG] netman packages

[aitor_czr]

Hi Frits,

Try this other way:

1) Checkout the gbp-master branch and remove the .git folder,
   because we will use git-import-orig instead of git-import-dsc,
   and git-import-orig doesn't support metadatas.

2) Now go to the parent directory, create a new folder and enter into it.

3) Create an empty git repository and import the sources of netman:

   $ git-import-orig --pristine-tar ../netman

4) Enter the name of the project and the version:

   What will be the source package name? [] netman
   What is the upstream version? [] 0.1.1~468c97d
   []

5) Now build:

   $ git-buildpackage -tc --git-export-dir="../build-area" 
--git-pristine-tar --git-ignore-branch



   Aitor.


On 11/15/2015 08:04 PM, Godefridus Daalmans  wrote:

So it failed because you are not allowed to sign because only Aitor is.


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Re: [DNG] greybeards

[Rainer Weikusat]

Didier Kryn  writes:

[...]

> The force which makes software development possible is, of course,
> enthusiasm, but it needs some heading.

A problem someone recently posted to comp.lang.perl.misc was "assuming
$R is a string specifiying a sequence of 1-based indices and @A an array
whose length is evenly divisble by length($R), how can the contents of
@A be reordered as specified by the indices from $R (to be applied to
each length($R) sized subset of @A in turn)?" There's an (IMHO)
extremely neat solution,

-
my $R = '4213';
my @A = qw(aa bb cc dd ee ff gg hh ii jj kk ll);

my @r = $R =~ /./g;
my $n;
print("@A[map {(0, map $n++, @r)[@r]} 1..@A/@r]", "\n");
-

which is the closest thing to a poem I've seen in code so far. I had the
pleasure to discover this (or it came to me --- I'd never claim to have
'invented' that) and if that's a sign of "enthusiasm", it's one of a
very different kind than taking enormous pride in creating widely
loathed, large agglomerations of clumsily written code based on the
conviction that "everything anybody else ever did was completely wrong"
...
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Re: [DNG] Getting started with netman-gtk3

[Edward Bartolo]

Hi Aitor,

Thanks for informing me. If you have queries about any
procedure/function in the Lazarus frontend, don't hesitate to ask.

Thanks

On 15/11/2015, aitor_czr  wrote:
> I started a gui in gtk3 using cmake. I has only a button wich closes the
> window, so it's just started:
>
> https://git.devuan.org/aitor_czr/netman-gtk3/tree/master/
>
> I will not use Anjuta. I will use a text editor (emacs, geany...) and
> glade separately.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Aitor.
>
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