Re: [DNG] greybeards
Greybeards. I think this could mean wise people. At least the common sense is to expect the old people to have accumulated some wisdom. The force which makes software development possible is, of course, enthusiasm, but it needs some heading. I am sure Poetering is very enthusiastic regarding systemd and highjacking the whole OS. He is concious to be developping a new OS. But, what's his role here? I think he is just the work horse. He defends the project as he sees it, but some wiser people at RedHat (or Redmond) may have the true heading in mind and, even he, doesn't know it. Wisdom tends to make people reluctant to start doing things; this is why the modern trend is to promote the young and deprecate the greybeards. But enthusiasm makes people blind. This is why a mix is... well... wise. Sorry for this poor man's philosophy. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] OT: Degree?
Thank you, Simon. I'll probably get my second degree as CS, I'm currently in a different (non-tech) university. I hope money we'll pay worth it. The good thing is that you don't need to pass exams one more time, they will only ask for an interview. And also it lasts three years instead of four to get the second bachelor degree. Thank you all, Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] OT: Degree?
Sorry, sorry, SORRY... Renaming the subject once again (broken your pencil furiously Steve)... Hi all, This thread is long... I've been busy these last days, and i need some time to read it carefully. There are interesting points of view. Aitor. On 11/13/2015 01:00 PM, Mitt Green wrote: >I mean, that's something normal, neither years in the field >nor degree won't make you smart and experienced >(years are not equal to experience) alone, something >has to be inside your skull. That echoes something I wrote off-list to the OP. Having a degree is good because a lot of large employers require it, and many other employers/HR agencies use it as a filter. Doesn't have to be a computer related one - mine is in Engineering and it's amazing how many engineering students don't go into engineering after graduation by choice, it's taken by many employers as a good grounding for many other jobs. I do feel that a "good" basic education in "computer science" (whatever it's called) is good. Having a good understanding of the fundamentals means you can pick up and learn whatever language du jour/passing fad is. If you only ever learned about data storage, sorting, and so on from the perspective of a single high level language, then that may make it difficult to grasp other languages (depending on their nature of course) - the old "if all you have is a hammer, then every problem is a nail" issue. That doesn't mean you have to be proficient with pliers and screwdrivers - but if you at least know how to recognise when a hammer isn't the right tool then you are half way to a decent job. But after that, nothing beats experience. I was lucky in that apart from when I was leaving school, I've never had to compete to get any of my jobs. I started as a junior design engineer in a local (large, very large) engineering firm, left to set up in business with some friends as the local Apple dealer), found out the hard way that we had "more enthusiasm than business acumen", started a smaller general computer business with one of them, then one day I walked into the MDs office of one of our large customers and asked if there was any chance of a full time job. I was there for 10 years - primarily IT (in a department of 3 1/2 people), but dealing with just about anything that used electricity. When that business got driven down the plughole by the beancounters who took over, I was one of the many that "left" - at the time it was very painful, but in hindsight it was good for me. I went to see the same person (who had been forced out years earlier and how had fingers in many local businesses) and before I'd even asked, he'd outlined 3 possibilities. He more or less put me where I am now (general IT/Internet/small hosting company), and I've been here 10 years. So those two jobs came about because I asked for them, and the person i asked knew that I could turn my hand to many things. Sadly he died in an airplane accident some years ago. But you have to get that experience first. that may mean taking any job you can get at first. Any junior admin, helldesk, developer, whatever job will get you onto the bottom rung. Take the opportunity to look around and see what different people do - your first choice of career may not actually be what you want. There is no such thing as "IT" - it's a very wide field with many different roles. Watch people closely. Tend to stay away from the brash loudmouths, watch the quieter ones who just get one with stuff (and are probably moaning about fixing the sh*t left by the loudmouths) as they are probably the more professional ones. Take time to talk to people about what they do, why, what's good and what isn't. And when you make a cockup - as you will, more than once - don't just shrug it off, look at what went wrong, why, and how you can avoid it again. If you have decent colleagues, then they'll be supportive if you're open about asking for advice and it will improve your reputation with them. Sadly, you will also find environments where openly admitted ot having made a mistake will be used against you - if you find yourself in one of these, then the best advice I can give is to get out as soon as you can as these are toxic and don't promote learning or good practice. In that vein, if you are a witness to someone else making a cockup - don't hold it against them (unless they really were stupid and don't want to learn from it) - but use the same process - what went wrong and what can you learn from it. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
Hello, I decided to try to switch to Devuan Jessie with KDE4 installed using dev1fanboy instructions. As I know, KDE4 isn't either tested or supported in Devuan right now, but it's interesting for me to try and probably fix something. I should say the whole process went just fine and I can use it on my netbook successfully, except the only issue with network-manager, which doesn't allow me to connect to Wi-Fi when started on system startup. I tried getting to know, what's the problem is, and found that my network-manager package still depends on systemd. I also found a page with efforts to untie them here: https://git.devuan.org/packages-base/network-manager. Trying to build it manually failed as I have 'newer' D-Bus package and can't reinstall it from Devuan repository. So, my two questions are: 1. Is network-manager package built from the link above available in some Devuan repo? I've checked 'merged' and 'devuan' repos, but with no success (there's Debian systemd-dependent version exists in 'merged' repo and no version in 'devuan'). 2. Can I somehow gently reinstall D-Bus (libdbus-1-3) from version of Debian 8.2.0 (it's 1.8.20-0+deb8u1) to Devuan one (1.8.18-0+devuan1) without removing it and all its dependencies? It's important question for me as I guess this kind of things wouldn't be too unusual meanwhile. And I'd like to take a chance to say big thanks to all the developers for this efforts and wish Devuan project all the best. Thank you very much! Alexey Chernov ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
I suggest you to try this: http://gnuinos.org/netman/ (packages for amd64) Dowload the netman packages for your architecture and use dpkg -i to install. netman is a network manager without dbus and systemd requirements. You can also try wicd. On 14/11/2015, 4ernov <4er...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I decided to try to switch to Devuan Jessie with KDE4 installed using > dev1fanboy instructions. As I know, KDE4 isn't either tested or > supported in Devuan right now, but it's interesting for me to try and > probably fix something. > > I should say the whole process went just fine and I can use it on my > netbook successfully, except the only issue with network-manager, > which doesn't allow me to connect to Wi-Fi when started on system > startup. > > I tried getting to know, what's the problem is, and found that my > network-manager package still depends on systemd. I also found a page > with efforts to untie them here: > https://git.devuan.org/packages-base/network-manager. Trying to build > it manually failed as I have 'newer' D-Bus package and can't reinstall > it from Devuan repository. So, my two questions are: > > 1. Is network-manager package built from the link above available in > some Devuan repo? I've checked 'merged' and 'devuan' repos, but with > no success (there's Debian systemd-dependent version exists in > 'merged' repo and no version in 'devuan'). > > 2. Can I somehow gently reinstall D-Bus (libdbus-1-3) from version of > Debian 8.2.0 (it's 1.8.20-0+deb8u1) to Devuan one (1.8.18-0+devuan1) > without removing it and all its dependencies? It's important question > for me as I guess this kind of things wouldn't be too unusual > meanwhile. > > And I'd like to take a chance to say big thanks to all the developers > for this efforts and wish Devuan project all the best. Thank you very > much! > > Alexey Chernov > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
wicd is an excellent network manager that includes a KDE GUI: # apt-get install wicd-kde signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
Thank you for this suggestion, just tried netman and it really works just fine. But my initial questions are still there if I'm write to notice that network-manager is kind of 'default' package for desktop connection management (sorry if I'm mistaken). And, by the way, I've also seen an idea to avoid D-Bus in the list several times. So is it really another aim for Devuan, too? 2015-11-14 16:52 GMT+03:00 Edward Bartolo : > I suggest you to try this: > http://gnuinos.org/netman/ (packages for amd64) > > Dowload the netman packages for your architecture and use dpkg -i to install. > > netman is a network manager without dbus and systemd requirements. You > can also try wicd. > > On 14/11/2015, 4ernov <4er...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I decided to try to switch to Devuan Jessie with KDE4 installed using >> dev1fanboy instructions. As I know, KDE4 isn't either tested or >> supported in Devuan right now, but it's interesting for me to try and >> probably fix something. >> >> I should say the whole process went just fine and I can use it on my >> netbook successfully, except the only issue with network-manager, >> which doesn't allow me to connect to Wi-Fi when started on system >> startup. >> >> I tried getting to know, what's the problem is, and found that my >> network-manager package still depends on systemd. I also found a page >> with efforts to untie them here: >> https://git.devuan.org/packages-base/network-manager. Trying to build >> it manually failed as I have 'newer' D-Bus package and can't reinstall >> it from Devuan repository. So, my two questions are: >> >> 1. Is network-manager package built from the link above available in >> some Devuan repo? I've checked 'merged' and 'devuan' repos, but with >> no success (there's Debian systemd-dependent version exists in >> 'merged' repo and no version in 'devuan'). >> >> 2. Can I somehow gently reinstall D-Bus (libdbus-1-3) from version of >> Debian 8.2.0 (it's 1.8.20-0+deb8u1) to Devuan one (1.8.18-0+devuan1) >> without removing it and all its dependencies? It's important question >> for me as I guess this kind of things wouldn't be too unusual >> meanwhile. >> >> And I'd like to take a chance to say big thanks to all the developers >> for this efforts and wish Devuan project all the best. Thank you very >> much! >> >> Alexey Chernov >> ___ >> Dng mailing list >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >> ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
Yes, thank you, that's nice solution, too. 2015-11-14 17:20 GMT+03:00 Brian Nash : > wicd is an excellent network manager that includes a KDE GUI: > ># apt-get install wicd-kde ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] greybeards
Didier Kryn writes: [...] > The force which makes software development possible is, of course, > enthusiasm, but it needs some heading. > > I am sure Poetering is very enthusiastic regarding systemd and > highjacking the whole OS. He is concious to be developping a new > OS. But, what's his role here? I think he is just the work horse. He > defends the project as he sees it, but some wiser people at RedHat (or > Redmond) may have the true heading in mind and, even he, doesn't know > it. My conjecture about this would be that it's a bad case of the tail wagging the dog because it wrongly considers itself to be the head. But speculating about people in this way is unwise: This only lends itself to another "stock counterspell" namely "people wouldn't mind systemd at all weren't the jealous of the achievements of its authors", IOW, that criticism really means "the criticised thing is great but the critic a bad person". ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 09:20:20 -0500 Brian Nash wrote: > wicd is an excellent network manager that includes a KDE GUI: > > # apt-get install wicd-kde And wicd is what Devuan (or at least Devuan Xfce) uses right out of the box. And it works well. SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:22:15 +0300 4ernov <4er...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> And I'd like to take a chance to say big thanks to all the > >> developers for this efforts and wish Devuan project all the best. I'm going to answer this question as an individual, which, while not responsive to your question about the Devuan project, might be of interest. To the extent convenient, I avoid dbus entanglements. This is why I *never* use Network-Manager. This is also one of several reasons I prefer the wonderful Openbox window manager to the equally wonderful LXDE wm, at least on my daily driver desktop. But I would *never* expect my distro to supply me a dbus-less computer: dbus has already been integrated into too much stuff to back out. I can easily run dbusless. Until I run any kind of GUI program, then that all goes out the window. Gotta love that Freedesktop.org. SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
I remember Squeeze with Xfce was (is, since it is still supported) using it by default as well. By the way, why not plain wpa_supplicant? It's lightweight unlike Wicd and is included on each Unix system by default nowadays. If necessary, there is a Qt interface for it (wpa_gui). Mitt Original Message On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 09:20:20 -0500 Brian Nash wrote: > wicd is an excellent network manager that includes a KDE GUI: > > # apt-get install wicd-kde And wicd is what Devuan (or at least Devuan Xfce) uses right out of the box. And it works well. SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] dbus, Was Re: Systemd-free network-manager package
dbus has its implementation in systemd already http://0pointer.net/blog/the-new-sd-bus-api-of-systemd.html What's next? Mitt --- Original Message On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 17:22:15 +0300 4ernov <4er...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> And I'd like to take a chance to say big thanks to all the > >> developers for this efforts and wish Devuan project all the best. I'm going to answer this question as an individual, which, while not responsive to your question about the Devuan project, might be of interest. To the extent convenient, I avoid dbus entanglements. This is why I *never* use Network-Manager. This is also one of several reasons I prefer the wonderful Openbox window manager to the equally wonderful LXDE wm, at least on my daily driver desktop. But I would *never* expect my distro to supply me a dbus-less computer: dbus has already been integrated into too much stuff to back out. I can easily run dbusless. Until I run any kind of GUI program, then that all goes out the window. Gotta love that Freedesktop.org. SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] dbus, Was Re: Systemd-free network-manager package
I think he should change his name to Lennart Cluttering. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
Yes, I'm really not against any of the alternatives, it's just that I found the package installed by default back in Debian broken after the transfer, noticed some efforts in git of fixing it, so I thought it's me that I can't find it in the repository. Surely if it's stated that e.g. wicd is preferred in Devuan instead of network-manager etc. etc., it's absolutely normal. 2015-11-14 20:10 GMT+03:00 Mitt Green : > I remember Squeeze with Xfce was (is, > since it is still supported) > using it by default as well. > > By the way, why not plain > wpa_supplicant? It's lightweight unlike > Wicd and is included on each Unix > system by default nowadays. > If necessary, there is a Qt interface for it > (wpa_gui). > > Mitt > > > > Original Message > > On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 09:20:20 -0500 > Brian Nash wrote: > >> wicd is an excellent network manager that includes a KDE GUI: >> >> # apt-get install wicd-kde > > And wicd is what Devuan (or at least Devuan Xfce) uses right out of the > box. And it works well. > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques > of the Successful Technologist > http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] dbus, Was Re: Systemd-free network-manager package
On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 20:20:49 +0300 Mitt Green wrote: > I think he should change his name to > Lennart Cluttering. Hey man, be careful of wisecracks like that. I almost broke a rib laughing. SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] dbus, Was Re: Systemd-free network-manager package
Not sure if that was sarcasm though. Anyway, why do we need dbus if we can live without it? I've seen these [1] cool figures explaining what it is but neither them, nor the article didn't give me the answer why it is necessary. Mitt Reference: [1]: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/34/Processes_without_D-Bus.svg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Processes_with_D-Bus.svg ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] dbus, Was Re: Systemd-free network-manager package
Mitt Green writes: > Not sure if that was sarcasm though. > > Anyway, why do we need dbus if we can live > without it? > > I've seen these [1] cool figures explaining what it is > but neither them, > nor the article didn't give me the answer why it is > necessary. "Necessary" is a bit of a bad category because anything can be implemented in some other way, hence nothing is strictly necessary. D-BUS is an OO RPC system intended to enable long-running applications to call methods implemented by other long-running applications provided these other long-running applications run on the same computer. This implies that it defines a general convention for naming 'objects' and manages the corresponding names. It also defines (another) universal encoding for records composed of typed fields so that these can be serialized into byte streams and then again deserialized. Lastly, D-Bus is also the program providing the 'single point of failure' and 'most annoying performance bottleneck' for programs desiring to exchange data using the D-Bus protocol. Since its designed to be general enough to be applicable to any conceivable use, it's also supposed to supplant all other non-networked IPC methods, eg, some future version of udev is supposed to use the D-Bus protocol in order to get information from the kernel instead of receiving mostly textual 'uevent notifications' via AF_NETLINK socket. That's another "how everyone else does it" usual component of a graphical dekststop environment and a fundamental building block of the "everything crossdepends on everything else in a way nobody really understands" organizational structure dekstop developers consider the only viable way of doing anything. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] dbus, Was Re: Systemd-free network-manager package
On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 19:36:08 + Rainer Weikusat wrote: > D-BUS is an OO RPC system intended to enable long-running > applications to call methods implemented by other long-running > applications provided these other long-running applications run on the > same computer. Everybody ordering around everybody else's soldiers. What could POSSIBLY go wrong? SteveT Steve Litt November 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting Techniques of the Successful Technologist http://www.troubleshooters.com/techniques ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
wicd seems to work perfectly fine for me, although I mostly use the ncurses and GTK interfaces. I never did figure out (or remember) how to use wpa_supplicant, although IIRC connecting to a wifi network is just two commands. Darnit, now I'm going to spend my whole weekend re-learning it, only to forget again on Monday. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
>> I never did figure out (or remember) how to use >> wpa_supplicant, although >> IIRC connecting to a wifi network is just two commands. When using wpa_supplicant you have two commands as well. Actual wpa_supplicant and DHCP. man wpa_supplicant and man wpa_supplicant.conf Instead of writing endless wpa_supplicant -c/blah/blah.conf I use a script, you can also add it to startup. Mitt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
Le 14/11/2015 21:20, Brian Nash a écrit : I never did figure out (or remember) how to use wpa_supplicant, although IIRC connecting to a wifi network is just two commands. 1) Follow this howto: http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-wifi-roaming-with-wpa-supplicant/ 2) change the config file to set the gid of the control interface and make yourself a member of this group, 3) then install wpa_gui This is a modular set up which involves the traditional ifupdown mechanism, and in which wpa_supplicant is running in daemon mode and wpa_gui is a graphical config helper for it. If you also want some roaming for Ethernet, then you also need ifplugd. wpa_gui is provided upstream together with wpa_supplicant, but some people dislike it because it is based on Qt. If you prefer to completely bypass ifupdown and /etc/network/interfaces, and integrate all in one app, then I understood netman is doing what you want; AFAIU, netman is the daemon and it invokes wpa_supplicant in non-daemon mode. I don't know where wicd is in this plot. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] dbus, Was Re: Systemd-free network-manager package
On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 07:36:08PM +, Rainer Weikusat wrote: > Mitt Green writes: > > Not sure if that was sarcasm though. > > > > Anyway, why do we need dbus if we can live > > without it? > > > > I've seen these [1] cool figures explaining what it is > > but neither them, > > nor the article didn't give me the answer why it is > > necessary. > > "Necessary" is a bit of a bad category because anything can be > implemented in some other way, hence nothing is strictly > necessary. D-BUS is an OO RPC system intended to enable long-running > applications to call methods implemented by other long-running > applications provided these other long-running applications run on the > same computer. Your explanation is pretty good. But there are a very few more details that I thought should be mentioned: - Regarding 'long-running', it seems worthwhile to mention that D-Bus is the main *stateful* IPC protocol available. In other words, it is designed around the concept that you're dealing with programs that will not be restarted. This, apparently, makes it simpler to use, since rather than dealing with failures of the 'remote' process, you can simply ignore them because it's irrecoverable anyhow. This simplicity in use, obviously, makes it a favored API for combination with the systemd init/service manager/*. (Anyone who does not see the humor of this probably should either re-read that or consult the definition of 'service manager'.) - Regarding 'on the same computer', it's apparently supposed to be 'possible' to set up some method of forwarding over ssh. I saw references to this being already implemented in one of the threads Miroslav posted in; but as far as documentation goes, I see only a two and a half year old page mentioning it as a possible but untested solution. (http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/DBusRemote/) There's also a third-party program to implement this (http://gabriel.sf.net/howto.html). -A caveat is that it's apparently also notorious for being troublesome when using SSH with X forwarding. HTH, Isaac Dunham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] OT: Degree?
On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 11:16:22AM +0300, Mitt Green wrote: > Thank you, Simon. > > I'll probably get my second degree as CS, > I'm currently in a different (non-tech) university. > I hope money we'll pay worth it. The good thing > is that you don't need to pass exams one more time, > they will only ask for an interview. And also it lasts three years > instead of four to get the second bachelor degree. I advise combining practical experience with studies. Each will help you with the other. There are several ways to go about this. (1) Enrolling in a university that offers a co-op program. Here you will be spending alternate terms studying and working at various internships. The work experience will help you understand the coursework in greater depth, and the coursework will help you with some of the work projects. I once taught at such a university, and the co-op students were often the best because of their practical experience. (2) Start programming before you go to university. This could be a job (if you find someone to hire you) or a project of your own (yes, there are good books for the autodidact). Those who taught themselves and have a lively curiosity about everything related are oftern the best in the field. Or find an open-source project that interests you and find something to do that might help them. You don't have to finish your first degree to start this. My oldest son wrote a video game in high school as his personal project. He was pretty well self-taught, though I did give him some advice as to what books he should look at. It wasn't a great game. but it actually worked. The most important advice I gave him was to keep it simple. Get something to work, and work reliably, before you introduce *any* complications. In pther words, Do the simplest thing that could possibly work. There's controversy about whether this is the best way to approach an real-world problem, but it is an excellent way to start learning a technology. You might get some inspiration at opengamearg.org, which is a site that encourages open-source games. I submitted a game to their Liberated Pixel Cup challenge (http://opengameart.org/lpc-code-entries) a few years ago because I wanted to learn something about OpenGL and OCaml. I advise this not because it'll be a great resume item (but it won't hurt) but because it will provide you with the source code for existing games that you can study, modify, and learn from, and because you'll likely find their forums at least fun. Not to mention that you can play the games themselves in idle moments. And if you havn't already started programming, may I suggest you have a look at How To Design Programs (http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/), which goes with the Racket implementation of Scheme. It's a language which is not the most popular, but is good for learning the basics, and is not simplistic. Scheme ca take you all the way from beginner's code to cutting-edge research into computer science. You will learn many languages as you progress in your compuuting career. Just remember, the first one is the hardest, because you have to learn new ways of thinking. ONce you have those, the others are relatively easy. > > Thank you all, > > Mitt -- You are truly welcome. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 05:22:15PM +0300, 4ernov wrote: > Thank you for this suggestion, just tried netman and it really works just > fine. > > But my initial questions are still there if I'm write to notice that > network-manager is kind of 'default' package for desktop connection > management (sorry if I'm mistaken). > > And, by the way, I've also seen an idea to avoid D-Bus in the list > several times. So is it really another aim for Devuan, too? It is an aim, but there will likely alway be packages that require it. Package developed specifically for Devuan usually do not require it. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 08:10:57PM +0300, Mitt Green wrote: > I remember Squeeze with Xfce was (is, > since it is still supported) > using it by default as well. > > By the way, why not plain > wpa_supplicant? It's lightweight unlike > Wicd and is included on each Unix > system by default nowadays. If I understand the netman development correctly, netman uses wpa_supplicant just for that reason. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 11:41:56PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > Le 14/11/2015 21:20, Brian Nash a écrit : > >I never did figure out (or remember) how to use wpa_supplicant, although > >IIRC connecting to a wifi network is just two commands. > > 1) Follow this howto: > http://www.debuntu.org/how-to-wifi-roaming-with-wpa-supplicant/ > 2) change the config file to set the gid of the control interface and > make yourself a member of this group, > 3) then install wpa_gui > > This is a modular set up which involves the traditional ifupdown > mechanism, and in which wpa_supplicant is running in daemon mode and wpa_gui > is a graphical config helper for it. If you also want some roaming for > Ethernet, then you also need ifplugd. wpa_gui is provided upstream together > with wpa_supplicant, but some people dislike it because it is based on Qt. > > If you prefer to completely bypass ifupdown and /etc/network/interfaces, > and integrate all in one app, then I understood netman is doing what you > want; AFAIU, netman is the daemon and it invokes wpa_supplicant in > non-daemon mode. wpa_supplicant has no non-daemon mode. When it exits, it deconfigures the interface. AFAIU, netman uses ifupdown but bypasses /etc/network/interfaces, writing its own alternate interfaces files (utilized by spawning 'ifup -i ...'). These files use the "fire-and-forget" mode of the wpa_supplicant ifconfig plugin (wpa_essid and so forth). Actually, I'm not sure exactly how much forgetting ifupdown does. But I know that this mode is *not* utilising the ability of wpa_supplicant to handle multiple networks; netman seemed to repeatedly call a helper in order to do what wpa_supplicant could do, if properly configured. The developer intends to call wpa_* directly at some point; I hope that he takes the opportunity to make it use wpa_supplicant's abilities. > > I don't know where wicd is in this plot. It's a two-part python/dbus interface that runs wpa_supplicant from a daemon and controls it from a client. HTH, Isaac Dunham ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Systemd-free network-manager package
Le 15/11/2015 05:31, Isaac Dunham a écrit : wpa_supplicant has no non-daemon mode. When it exits, it deconfigures the interface. Right. I overlooked the -B option. Not giving this option simply allows to debug or "supervise" the daemon. Isaac, I'm impressed how acurate you always are :-) Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
