Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitu..?
Didn't the Debian Constitution ultimately help in screwing that distro up? Or was it some other bureaucratic device? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitu..?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Agree Indeed thats the issue, And also the reason why things need to be though in a different manner hence not bureaucratic. n. On 09/28/2015 10:04 AM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: > Didn't the Debian Constitution ultimately help in screwing that > distro up? Or was it some other bureaucratic device? > ___ Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWCPdVAAoJEB4vJZJLVJYmUEQP/2umQTfvbvFZFbTDks5qDmBx z3OJlLFFpYinsuPzhUJi7oAck6aivLmsMC+tV+mMsKWErwiepv2eePcKdXPe5Z8c VNBVdNJxRVUbpRYLU1EKSmP2yJ7ttT8RWY4TKW1AubfiXxOpso6r4h0hHnPwp6p/ iiqQai6z+k5VFyot2BxJ0s/0tq6boHIECXDI/AAGFXRpvwOSdGk0Ynzmvj60M2x2 dCezmKs39Rwci3210WezpvR4A4TtcQUmSwV0O1NOywgUYk4EThifQOKttPdleSqL uJhbOzaEoWzcyW0HoOOCYkKbz0KmWCrEJYOdWgRoJoGxHjCY92+5wMxIUmBBbQPe wwa93cZsXGOsp6SO4myv2Sfrb4C9uSEfg2v4bTtgTkk1wAHgk0CHZKIy4X6GdQqX tIl50iVEcQE+19JNkTkJ9bI29mXj5rPIouNvNZVYd4vsnCtWWqlTb1TzAqlyvrIW 0RkaqBzlAdSa0KSfoFpQTD5UTD4C0AcYOV39gGC7CPQ8YcavO02R0rAtvJpcaAe5 0ccjMx3MfkLHUeSm4vfhtS9R+/TiX1jooABAlEspSAIgWfaVenL1qWBQDzEwT9Rt 3Cmvq7lEcK93FYdXmop1i9XIxFJ75ftt634YoNfnPS6Rf18GI8ycaXySaLWtzsf2 9fRcR/1YIlvhicXznCjd =tkOk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] The systemd thought process: was What can I do after netman?
On 26/09/15 19:39, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sat, 26 Sep 2015 16:34:58 +0200 > John Crisp wrote: > >> On 25/09/15 17:07, Hleb Valoshka wrote: > >>> I don't see any reason to throw away wicd and replace it with your >>> tool. >> >> Excellent. Who said you had too ? Is it compulsory or obligatory ? I >> don't remember seeing that anywhere. > > :-) > > John, I bet you've seen that, or something similar, voiced by the > systemd fanboiz... > Me ? Nah, never heard of such a thing ;-) ROFL... SSDD. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Thanks Edward for your great effort, commitment and persistence and Aitor for packaging. I have yet to work out how to automatically connect on boot. A manpage is needed. An installation and some live images here use (self-compiled) eudev. The wireless inteface is not necessarily wlanx but a string which I haven't yet identified where it comes from. Maybe it's to do with newer (systemd-)udev which eudev tracks. However it does show and work in wicd. I would like to see netman identify and use other than wlan0. I have used wicd for convenience and ability to autoconnect but am not keen on dbus reliance. Before I used wpa-gui but it has qt4 deps. Netman wouldn't work here till after reboot, with wicd initscript disabled. David ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
To connect automatically on boot you only need to pass --auto-conn parameter to netman, the frontend GUI. I use it that way and it connects as soon as I log into XFCE4. Configure your desktop or window manager to run netman with --auto-conn as a parameter. So, the command should be like this: /usr/bin/netman --auto-conn The latest netman commit on git.devuan.org uses a systray icon just like all other network managers. Left click shows the GUI, right click shows a popup menu. Icon is updated to signify 'connected' and 'disconnected' status. Edward On 28/09/2015, David Hare wrote: > Thanks Edward for your great effort, commitment and persistence and > Aitor for packaging. > > I have yet to work out how to automatically connect on boot. A manpage > is needed. > > An installation and some live images here use (self-compiled) eudev. The > wireless inteface is not necessarily wlanx but a string which I haven't > yet identified where it comes from. Maybe it's to do with newer > (systemd-)udev which eudev tracks. However it does show and work in > wicd. I would like to see netman identify and use other than wlan0. > > I have used wicd for convenience and ability to autoconnect but am not > keen on dbus reliance. Before I used wpa-gui but it has qt4 deps. > > Netman wouldn't work here till after reboot, with wicd initscript disabled. > > David > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
You can use udev to map wlan0 to the new device name so that netman would work. I was thinking about a configuration file for the backend so that it would be able to substitute wlan0 and eth0 with other device names as set up by the user. I was thinking about this format: wlanX=wireless-device-name ethX=wired-connection-name However, I need the know what other developers think about this approach. Edward On 28/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: > To connect automatically on boot you only need to pass --auto-conn > parameter to netman, the frontend GUI. I use it that way and it > connects as soon as I log into XFCE4. Configure your desktop or window > manager to run netman with --auto-conn as a parameter. > > So, the command should be like this: > /usr/bin/netman --auto-conn > > The latest netman commit on git.devuan.org uses a systray icon just > like all other network managers. Left click shows the GUI, right click > shows a popup menu. Icon is updated to signify 'connected' and > 'disconnected' status. > > Edward > > On 28/09/2015, David Hare wrote: >> Thanks Edward for your great effort, commitment and persistence and >> Aitor for packaging. >> >> I have yet to work out how to automatically connect on boot. A manpage >> is needed. >> >> An installation and some live images here use (self-compiled) eudev. The >> wireless inteface is not necessarily wlanx but a string which I haven't >> yet identified where it comes from. Maybe it's to do with newer >> (systemd-)udev which eudev tracks. However it does show and work in >> wicd. I would like to see netman identify and use other than wlan0. >> >> I have used wicd for convenience and ability to autoconnect but am not >> keen on dbus reliance. Before I used wpa-gui but it has qt4 deps. >> >> Netman wouldn't work here till after reboot, with wicd initscript >> disabled. >> >> David >> >> ___ >> Dng mailing list >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >> > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[DNG] netman: support for wlan1, wlan2, ... and eth1, eth2, .... and new systemd's naming scheme
Hi All, My next coding will be to add support for network interfaces other than wlan0 and eth0. Regarding this, I would like to have your ideas about how should I go not to minimally disrupt the already existing C code that is already working. My present idea is this: a) To connect to a wifi the backend command is: backend 4 essid-file essid-file is an interfaces file that contains the network device name. So, in the new implementation of the function that connects to wifi, I will first extract the network device name and use it in the call of ifup. This avoids having to change the backend command form. b) To create a new essid file, an additional parameter would be passed to hold the network device name to be used. c) In the Edit/New dialog box, the network devices on the system will be listed for the user to choose from. Additional information about available wifi sources will also be displayed. The latter will include whether encryption is used and what type, signal strength, essid. Obviously, the Edit/New dialog box will be redesigned. I can also create custom drawn list boxes but these require graphics like images and result in bloating netman with no additional functionality apart from a more pleasing appearance. Edward ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
@Edward and David: Don't know if this is helpful or if you've already seen it... Here's how the new network interface naming scheme works (or is supposed to work): http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/ From that page: "By default, systemd v197 will now name interfaces following policy 1) if that information from the firmware is applicable and available, falling back to 2) if that information from the firmware is applicable and available, falling back to 3) if applicable, falling back to 5) in all other cases. Policy 4) is not used by default, but is available if the user chooses so." And from my own testing on sid using a usb wireless interface, I got Policy 4 (MAC address in device name) by default, contrary to what it says. (Maybe 'cause I'm not running systemd?) This describes the names in detail: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/systemd/tree/src/udev/udev-builtin-net_id.c#n20 fsr On 09/28/2015 07:43 AM, Edward Bartolo wrote: > You can use udev to map wlan0 to the new device name so that netman would > work. > > I was thinking about a configuration file for the backend so that it > would be able to substitute wlan0 and eth0 with other device names as > set up by the user. I was thinking about this format: > wlanX=wireless-device-name > ethX=wired-connection-name > > However, I need the know what other developers think about this approach. > > Edward > > On 28/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> To connect automatically on boot you only need to pass --auto-conn >> parameter to netman, the frontend GUI. I use it that way and it >> connects as soon as I log into XFCE4. Configure your desktop or window >> manager to run netman with --auto-conn as a parameter. >> >> So, the command should be like this: >> /usr/bin/netman --auto-conn >> >> The latest netman commit on git.devuan.org uses a systray icon just >> like all other network managers. Left click shows the GUI, right click >> shows a popup menu. Icon is updated to signify 'connected' and >> 'disconnected' status. >> >> Edward >> >> On 28/09/2015, David Hare wrote: >>> Thanks Edward for your great effort, commitment and persistence and >>> Aitor for packaging. >>> >>> I have yet to work out how to automatically connect on boot. A manpage >>> is needed. >>> >>> An installation and some live images here use (self-compiled) eudev. The >>> wireless inteface is not necessarily wlanx but a string which I haven't >>> yet identified where it comes from. Maybe it's to do with newer >>> (systemd-)udev which eudev tracks. However it does show and work in >>> wicd. I would like to see netman identify and use other than wlan0. >>> >>> I have used wicd for convenience and ability to autoconnect but am not >>> keen on dbus reliance. Before I used wpa-gui but it has qt4 deps. >>> >>> Netman wouldn't work here till after reboot, with wicd initscript >>> disabled. >>> >>> David >>> >>> ___ >>> Dng mailing list >>> Dng@lists.dyne.org >>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >>> >> > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
fsmithred writes:
> @Edward and David:
>
> Don't know if this is helpful or if you've already seen it...
>
> Here's how the new network interface naming scheme works (or is supposed
> to work):
> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
Something worthy of being remembered for this case: This problem is
(almost) exclusively caused by the way 'distribution kernel
organization' ("compile every available driver as module") and "udev
module loading" interact: The kernel will probe devices as they're
encountered on the various busses but since udev loads driver modules
concurrently, this may even cause re-arrangements of "fixed" hardware as
the first driver which registers an interface gets eth0 (and so on), ie,
it's not the kernel names which are "unpredictable" but the order of
device driver init routine calls provided drivers are loaded by udev.
Judging from the documentation, "the new scheme" "improves" upon this by
ensuring that not even single interface computers get stable interface
names: Move the card to a different PCI slot or reconfigure your USB -
hey presto! - your network interface just got a new name.
... and who wouldn't want his network interface to be named
"enp0s29u1u2"? After all, anybody unterstands the meaning of eth0 ---
how terribly boring!
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Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
If I were to write this implementation I would do it this way:
i) do the above as described to obtain a list of devices
ii) sort the list alphabetically by name
iii) rename the list as usual.
That would get rid of all randomness.
Edward
On 28/09/2015, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
> fsmithred writes:
>> @Edward and David:
>>
>> Don't know if this is helpful or if you've already seen it...
>>
>> Here's how the new network interface naming scheme works (or is supposed
>> to work):
>> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
>
> Something worthy of being remembered for this case: This problem is
> (almost) exclusively caused by the way 'distribution kernel
> organization' ("compile every available driver as module") and "udev
> module loading" interact: The kernel will probe devices as they're
> encountered on the various busses but since udev loads driver modules
> concurrently, this may even cause re-arrangements of "fixed" hardware as
> the first driver which registers an interface gets eth0 (and so on), ie,
> it's not the kernel names which are "unpredictable" but the order of
> device driver init routine calls provided drivers are loaded by udev.
>
> Judging from the documentation, "the new scheme" "improves" upon this by
> ensuring that not even single interface computers get stable interface
> names: Move the card to a different PCI slot or reconfigure your USB -
> hey presto! - your network interface just got a new name.
>
> ... and who wouldn't want his network interface to be named
> "enp0s29u1u2"? After all, anybody unterstands the meaning of eth0 ---
> how terribly boring!
> ___
> Dng mailing list
> Dng@lists.dyne.org
> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>
___
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Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Ooops, it gets rid of randomness *provided the same hardware is used*
but it should work if one changes slots etc.
On 28/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> If I were to write this implementation I would do it this way:
> i) do the above as described to obtain a list of devices
> ii) sort the list alphabetically by name
> iii) rename the list as usual.
>
> That would get rid of all randomness.
>
>
> Edward
>
> On 28/09/2015, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
>> fsmithred writes:
>>> @Edward and David:
>>>
>>> Don't know if this is helpful or if you've already seen it...
>>>
>>> Here's how the new network interface naming scheme works (or is supposed
>>> to work):
>>> http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/PredictableNetworkInterfaceNames/
>>
>> Something worthy of being remembered for this case: This problem is
>> (almost) exclusively caused by the way 'distribution kernel
>> organization' ("compile every available driver as module") and "udev
>> module loading" interact: The kernel will probe devices as they're
>> encountered on the various busses but since udev loads driver modules
>> concurrently, this may even cause re-arrangements of "fixed" hardware as
>> the first driver which registers an interface gets eth0 (and so on), ie,
>> it's not the kernel names which are "unpredictable" but the order of
>> device driver init routine calls provided drivers are loaded by udev.
>>
>> Judging from the documentation, "the new scheme" "improves" upon this by
>> ensuring that not even single interface computers get stable interface
>> names: Move the card to a different PCI slot or reconfigure your USB -
>> hey presto! - your network interface just got a new name.
>>
>> ... and who wouldn't want his network interface to be named
>> "enp0s29u1u2"? After all, anybody unterstands the meaning of eth0 ---
>> how terribly boring!
>> ___
>> Dng mailing list
>> Dng@lists.dyne.org
>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
>>
>
___
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Re: [DNG] (1) netman package? (2) reliablility of devuan testing?
Il 26/set/2015 20:54, "Hendrik Boom" ha scritto: > I looked for a netman package in aptitude; it doesn't seem to be around > in jessie yet. Should I look in ascii or ceres? Or aren't we at that > stage yet? Good question, but there are none right now AFAIK! > Is ascii generally as reliable as debian testing used to be? If so I > should probably upgrade. Generally that would be true, right now it's broken (at least speaking of major GUIs) because of how our package overlays work (we have systemd-free dbus 1.8, many packages arbitrarily request 1.9) > Is debian testing even still as stable as debian testing used to be? I think so (when combined with supplementary repos like angband.pl)! ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] netman: support for wlan1, wlan2, ... and eth1, eth2, .... and new systemd's naming scheme
On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:00:46 +0200 Edward Bartolo wrote: > Hi All, > > My next coding will be to add support for network interfaces other > than wlan0 and eth0. Regarding this, I would like to have your ideas > about how should I go not to minimally disrupt the already existing C > code that is already working. Good. An excellent choice! Be aware that the following command tells you the names of all network interfaces: ip link If you want a list of their addresses, this is accomplished by: ip addr Obviously, you'd need a little creative AWK to isolate just the info you want. SteveT Steve Litt August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:45:03 +0100 Rainer Weikusat wrote: > ... and who wouldn't want his network interface to be named > "enp0s29u1u2"? After all, anybody unterstands the meaning of eth0 --- > how terribly boring! I don't like it either, but even anti-systemd distros are going for this Freedesktop BS. Luckily, the following command is an easy way to see the names of your network interfaces: ip link | grep "^\S" | cut -d " " -f2 SteveT Steve Litt August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitu..?
Hi natacha,The first four sections look pretty standard. But if you haven't done a fairly accurate assessment of how the community actually getswork done, it's highly unlikely that what is written about governance will reflect reality. Insteadit will confuse and frustrate newcomers, who will be forced to learn two sets of "rules"-- oneofficial one that's clear yet largely ineffectual, the other unspoken, complex, and real. (Thereare also many other problems that can happen from this, but that alone should be sufficientto be persuasive. -Jonathan On Monday, September 28, 2015 4:16 AM, natacha wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Agree Indeed thats the issue, And also the reason why things need to be though in a different manner hence not bureaucratic. n. On 09/28/2015 10:04 AM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: > Didn't the Debian Constitution ultimately help in screwing that > distro up? Or was it some other bureaucratic device? > ___ Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWCPdVAAoJEB4vJZJLVJYmUEQP/2umQTfvbvFZFbTDks5qDmBx z3OJlLFFpYinsuPzhUJi7oAck6aivLmsMC+tV+mMsKWErwiepv2eePcKdXPe5Z8c VNBVdNJxRVUbpRYLU1EKSmP2yJ7ttT8RWY4TKW1AubfiXxOpso6r4h0hHnPwp6p/ iiqQai6z+k5VFyot2BxJ0s/0tq6boHIECXDI/AAGFXRpvwOSdGk0Ynzmvj60M2x2 dCezmKs39Rwci3210WezpvR4A4TtcQUmSwV0O1NOywgUYk4EThifQOKttPdleSqL uJhbOzaEoWzcyW0HoOOCYkKbz0KmWCrEJYOdWgRoJoGxHjCY92+5wMxIUmBBbQPe wwa93cZsXGOsp6SO4myv2Sfrb4C9uSEfg2v4bTtgTkk1wAHgk0CHZKIy4X6GdQqX tIl50iVEcQE+19JNkTkJ9bI29mXj5rPIouNvNZVYd4vsnCtWWqlTb1TzAqlyvrIW 0RkaqBzlAdSa0KSfoFpQTD5UTD4C0AcYOV39gGC7CPQ8YcavO02R0rAtvJpcaAe5 0ccjMx3MfkLHUeSm4vfhtS9R+/TiX1jooABAlEspSAIgWfaVenL1qWBQDzEwT9Rt 3Cmvq7lEcK93FYdXmop1i9XIxFJ75ftt634YoNfnPS6Rf18GI8ycaXySaLWtzsf2 9fRcR/1YIlvhicXznCjd =tkOk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Quote: "Some way to display the IP address when connected, either on-demand or along with the word, Connected, or some other way." --- Which ip address? If a pc is connected to a wifi the address is something like 192.168.1.102. Are you talking about the ip address used by the router to access the internet? Edward On 28/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: > On 28/09/2015, Steve Litt wrote: >> On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:45:03 +0100 >> Rainer Weikusat wrote: >> >>> ... and who wouldn't want his network interface to be named >>> "enp0s29u1u2"? After all, anybody unterstands the meaning of eth0 --- >>> how terribly boring! >> >> I don't like it either, but even anti-systemd distros are going for >> this Freedesktop BS. Luckily, the following command is an easy way to >> see the names of your network interfaces: >> >> ip link | grep "^\S" | cut -d " " -f2 >> >> >> SteveT >> >> Steve Litt >> August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts >> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust >> ___ >> Dng mailing list >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >> > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitu..?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On 09/28/2015 08:10 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > Hi natacha,The first four sections look pretty standard. Yes, it is standard and very minimal, by curiosity, which txt are you talking about? > But if you haven't done a fairly accurate assessment of how the > community actually getswork done, it's highly unlikely that what is > written about governance will reflect reality. What is up there is only a draft for possible organisation, and I agree needs to be grounded on the functioning of the community, this is actually what this process is about. Insteadit will confuse and frustrate newcomers, who will be forced to learn two sets of "rules"-- oneofficial one that's clear yet largely ineffectual, the other unspoken, complex, and real. (Thereare also many other problems that can happen from this, but that alone should be sufficientto be persuasive. I agree open source communities are quite difficult to integrate, and it takes time for new comers to understand their modalities, that are very changing depending on the moment and the internal and even external dynamics. That's really what makes the beauty and efficiency of the process and there is no way to regulate this. On another hand each community exists for a reason and has a specific identity, Devuan crystallized because of the imposition of systemD in Debian, and people decided to engage themselves in a new and demanding process; but it seems that from that point on, a whole new set of questions appear, and they arise regularly on this mailing list along the discussions and when people ask for organisation. how different/similar is Devuan and Devuan organisation, who makes the decision, what do you want to keep/leave behind, is there a special spirit, I don't think any of this is Neutral and Helekin translates many issues in the constitution draft. natacha > > -Jonathan > > > > > On Monday, September 28, 2015 4:16 AM, natacha > wrote: > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > > > Agree Indeed thats the issue, And also the reason why things need > to be though in a different manner hence not bureaucratic. n. > > > > > > > > On 09/28/2015 10:04 AM, Nuno Magalhães wrote: >> Didn't the Debian Constitution ultimately help in screwing that >> distro up? Or was it some other bureaucratic device? >> ___ Dng mailing list >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >> > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) > > iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWCPdVAAoJEB4vJZJLVJYmUEQP/2umQTfvbvFZFbTDks5qDmBx > z3OJlLFFpYinsuPzhUJi7oAck6aivLmsMC+tV+mMsKWErwiepv2eePcKdXPe5Z8c > VNBVdNJxRVUbpRYLU1EKSmP2yJ7ttT8RWY4TKW1AubfiXxOpso6r4h0hHnPwp6p/ > iiqQai6z+k5VFyot2BxJ0s/0tq6boHIECXDI/AAGFXRpvwOSdGk0Ynzmvj60M2x2 > dCezmKs39Rwci3210WezpvR4A4TtcQUmSwV0O1NOywgUYk4EThifQOKttPdleSqL > uJhbOzaEoWzcyW0HoOOCYkKbz0KmWCrEJYOdWgRoJoGxHjCY92+5wMxIUmBBbQPe > wwa93cZsXGOsp6SO4myv2Sfrb4C9uSEfg2v4bTtgTkk1wAHgk0CHZKIy4X6GdQqX > tIl50iVEcQE+19JNkTkJ9bI29mXj5rPIouNvNZVYd4vsnCtWWqlTb1TzAqlyvrIW > 0RkaqBzlAdSa0KSfoFpQTD5UTD4C0AcYOV39gGC7CPQ8YcavO02R0rAtvJpcaAe5 > 0ccjMx3MfkLHUeSm4vfhtS9R+/TiX1jooABAlEspSAIgWfaVenL1qWBQDzEwT9Rt > 3Cmvq7lEcK93FYdXmop1i9XIxFJ75ftt634YoNfnPS6Rf18GI8ycaXySaLWtzsf2 > 9fRcR/1YIlvhicXznCjd =tkOk -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWCZdcAAoJEB4vJZJLVJYmBGoQAJfAyTV9MrsidfK1odzaZv9G QoMol77qKHo5NDgqkje9Y50XxuYaINjT+P86TWSGZLxxMwJUrSkCYDF8UX2f5SlJ H70InMTvloZoDkxlsUu9dh8ATvMo7VdChNtvoJqdhbu83N6UKeAYtFiZV2wqB5+r t4q/I0bXKC3/xOm3PJIG4y7DKDuDwspyaPQFBNWgGdwlrJqn8E+6uEsYT6sC9v/j 3nQcb6wZaM8fjwNe6E6UNPkddBidaTAdPE0+zzv+MmjmD0Ss96SVz3kkziNJpTw5 5EzWWF3mB+PjeVS+T6CzwM7sSqGN5/UPae/y9FhxFH02uWkaqRkAoNruvJ8J1tt/ lfkh3AL8TKNulonzAarmnJJkynXy1thPvmfN2spjLsEyKDxOG9oS0edakgXDTdtY eAC440Gyofhq+JUxU6zzwFoL5c7f+xC0Ybr6744DSS8yJkpJ7s6C7cSL0wIpMVTw d/2aX4M+gHp9QK52E/wtZLrcRogs9g3cW0GLfgMN+zffqhz8XmzZaUr9j90euyTa Fe4E4/TRqXGkzhyJtYVvgIQrv0VJh5y3gEOTk8gTZ9JC/1M+Cizo4KCs2LZWSkcx 6ISxGNjrQmVOZgnWjgtLhCecILTVRuXr2Azgw3FsF//hdUwchy2wDJSlBwfpiGMD ER7hdstEETMVXfhIaOQs =T94k -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [announce] s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems
- Original Message - > From: "Rainer Weikusat" > Laurent Bercot writes: >> I'm talking normal use cases here, i.e. situations where the services >> *will* succeed. In those situations, it is better to start everything >> according to the dependency graph, because then you do *not* trigger >> failure paths, which is nicer. > > Or you do trigger 'failure paths' which may not be nice at all. Eg, > according to a Solaris depenency specification I saw at some time in the > past, sending local mails on a Solaris system won't be allowed before > LDAP has been started. But there's really no way to predict this because > 'starting program A before program B' does not mean 'program A will be > ready to serve program B by the time program wants to use its services'. Here is a real-world scenario that has caused me trouble over the years. I have a system that connects wirelessly to my local network. The system uses wicd to manage the network connections, and wicd starts at boot. This system is supposed to mount several NFS shares on boot, but it always fails -- even when using openrc (which is dependency-based) on Funtoo. The problem is that even though wicd has started, it takes several seconds (sometimes up to 30 seconds) to acquire an ip address. In the meantime, NFS mounts are attempted and fail. I have "solved" this so far in a couple ways. One way is to issue a sleep statement before mounting the NFS shares. Another way, which can be seen at the following link, is to create a 'pingtest' service and make my NFS mounting script wait for that to succeed. https://bugs.funtoo.org/browse/FL-2644 I appreciate the assertion that NFS should handle this situation better. Note that the "bg" option seems like it should handle this situation, but my experience says it does not. I also appreciate the assertion that this can be addressed by the init system. In any case, I'm mentioning it here so that anybody looking to make a better init can consider this use case. -Rob ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
I'm talking about the LAN address. A lot of times, one of the first things I do after booting into a new system is use sftp to move files. Also, with wicd, I've gotten used to seeing the local address, and I feel like it's a more reliable indicator that I'm online than just the word, Connected. But that's probably because I recall using gnome-network-manager, and it always lied to me, telling me I was connected when I wasn't, and vice versa. Thanks. BTW, the zipfile you uploaded a couple of hours ago compiles and runs. I forgot to look for the panel icon to change between connected and disconnected states. fsr On 09/28/2015 03:03 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote: > Quote: "Some way to display the IP address when connected, either on-demand or > along with the word, Connected, or some other way." > --- > > Which ip address? If a pc is connected to a wifi the address is > something like 192.168.1.102. Are you talking about the ip address > used by the router to access the internet? > > Edward > > > On 28/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> On 28/09/2015, Steve Litt wrote: >>> On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:45:03 +0100 >>> Rainer Weikusat wrote: >>> ... and who wouldn't want his network interface to be named "enp0s29u1u2"? After all, anybody unterstands the meaning of eth0 --- how terribly boring! >>> >>> I don't like it either, but even anti-systemd distros are going for >>> this Freedesktop BS. Luckily, the following command is an easy way to >>> see the names of your network interfaces: >>> >>> ip link | grep "^\S" | cut -d " " -f2 >>> >>> >>> SteveT >>> >>> Steve Litt >>> August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts >>> http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust >>> ___ >>> Dng mailing list >>> Dng@lists.dyne.org >>> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >>> >> ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] live-build
Hi Aitor. I ran the following and got this error. E: Release signed by unknown key (key id CBF8D6FD518E17E1) Ozi lb clean --purge lb init lb config -a amd64 \ --binary-images iso \ --distribution jessie \ --win32-loader false \ --checksums md5 \ --archive-areas "main" \ --apt-recommends false \ --apt aptitude \ --apt-options --yes \ --build-with-chroot false \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config locales=en_US.UTF-8 keyboard-layouts=en" \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config username=user" \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config full_username=User" \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config hostname=devuan" lb bootstrap && lb chroot [2015-09-29 06:20:19] lb build noauto P: live-build 4.0.3 P: Building config tree for a debian/jessie/amd64 system [2015-09-29 06:20:19] lb bootstrap P: Setting up cleanup function [2015-09-29 06:20:19] lb bootstrap_cache restore P: Restoring bootstrap stage from cache... [2015-09-29 06:20:19] lb bootstrap_cdebootstrap [2015-09-29 06:20:19] lb bootstrap_debootstrap P: Begin bootstrapping system... P: If the following stage fails, the most likely cause of the problem is with your mirror configuration or a caching proxy. P: Running debootstrap (download-only)... I: Retrieving Release I: Retrieving Release.gpg I: Checking Release signature E: Release signed by unknown key (key id CBF8D6FD518E17E1) P: Begin unmounting filesystems... P: Saving caches... chroot: failed to run command ‘/usr/bin/env’: No such file or directory On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 6:19 PM, aitor_-czr wrote: > Hi Ozi, > > You must type: > > # lb clean --purge > > Here you are an example: > > # lb init > > # lb config -a amd64 \ > --binary-images iso \ > --distribution jessie \ > --win32-loader false \ > --checksums md5 \ > --archive-areas "main" \ > --apt-recommends false \ > --apt aptitude \ > --apt-options --yes \ > --build-with-chroot false \ > --bootappend-live "boot=live config locales=en_US.UTF-8 > keyboard-layouts=en" \ > --bootappend-live "boot=live config username=user" \ > --bootappend-live "boot=live config full_username=User" \ > --bootappend-live "boot=live config hostname=devuan" > > # lb bootstrap && lb chroot > > # mount -t none -o bind /proc chroot/proc > # mount -t none -o bind /sys chroot/sys > # mount -t none -o bind /dev/pts chroot/dev/pts > > If you want to run graphical applications inside the jail (for example, > bleachbit), you must run outside it the following: > > $ xhost + > > # chroot chroot > > Customize your distro, clean the system, exit and umount the partitions: > > # umount chroot/proc > # umount chroot/sys > # umount chroot/dev/pts > > Before building, be sure chroot/proc is empty (if not, reboot the > computer). Now build the content of the jail: > > # lb binary > > To clean the last step: > > # lb clean --binary > > To clean all: > > # lb clean --purge > > IMPORTANT NOTE: Like in git, it's important to check the hour. Don't be > like me ! > > Aitor. > > El 20/09/15 a las 00:09, Ozi Traveller escribió: > > Hi > > I added --build-with-chroot false as suggested > > But the build still fails. > > Is there something else I could try? > > Ozi > > [2015-09-20 08:05:08] lb clean > P: Executing auto/clean script. > [2015-09-20 08:05:08] lb clean noauto > P: Cleaning chroot > [2015-09-20 08:05:09] lb config > P: Executing auto/config script. > [2015-09-20 08:05:09] lb config noauto --mode debian --build-with-chroot > false --distribution jessie --debian-installer-distribution jessie > --debian-installer live --architectures amd64 --linux-flavours amd64 > --apt-recommends false --apt-secure true --apt-indices false > --apt-source-archives false --archive-areas main contrib non-free > --parent-mirror-bootstrap deb http://au.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ > --parent-mirror-binary > deb http://au.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ --mirror-bootstrap deb > http://au.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ --mirror-binary deb > http://au.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ --iso-application DIY Linux > --iso-publisher DIY --iso-volume DIY Live --backports false --security > false --updates false --memtest none --win32-loader false --debug --verbose > --bootappend-live boot=live config components file=/preseed.cfg quiet > splash autologin nouveau.modeset=0 radeon.modeset=0 > P: Updating config tree for a debian/jessie/amd64 system > P: Symlinking hooks... > [2015-09-20 08:05:09] lb build > P: Executing auto/build script. > [2015-09-20 08:05:09] lb build noauto > P: live-build 4.0.3 > P: Building config tree for a debian/jessie/amd64 system > [2015-09-20 08:05:09] lb bootstrap > P: Setting up cleanup function > [2015-09-20 08:05:09] lb bootstrap_cache restore > P: Restoring bootstrap stage from cache... > [2015-09-20 08:05:09] lb bootstrap_cdebootstrap > [2015-09-20 08:05:09] lb bootstrap_debootstrap > P: Begin bootstrapping system... > P: If the following stage fails, the most l
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
So, you are talking about the address displayed by "ip addr"? Please, forgive me to ask again, but I have to be certain to avoid writing code in vain. On 28/09/2015, fsmithred wrote: > I'm talking about the LAN address. A lot of times, one of the first things > I do after booting into a new system is use sftp to move files. > > Also, with wicd, I've gotten used to seeing the local address, and I feel > like it's a more reliable indicator that I'm online than just the word, > Connected. But that's probably because I recall using > gnome-network-manager, and it always lied to me, telling me I was > connected when I wasn't, and vice versa. > > Thanks. > > BTW, the zipfile you uploaded a couple of hours ago compiles and runs. I > forgot to look for the panel icon to change between connected and > disconnected states. > > fsr > > > On 09/28/2015 03:03 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote: >> Quote: "Some way to display the IP address when connected, either >> on-demand or >> along with the word, Connected, or some other way." >> --- >> >> Which ip address? If a pc is connected to a wifi the address is >> something like 192.168.1.102. Are you talking about the ip address >> used by the router to access the internet? >> >> Edward >> >> >> On 28/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: >>> On 28/09/2015, Steve Litt wrote: On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:45:03 +0100 Rainer Weikusat wrote: > ... and who wouldn't want his network interface to be named > "enp0s29u1u2"? After all, anybody unterstands the meaning of eth0 --- > how terribly boring! I don't like it either, but even anti-systemd distros are going for this Freedesktop BS. Luckily, the following command is an easy way to see the names of your network interfaces: ip link | grep "^\S" | cut -d " " -f2 SteveT Steve Litt August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >>> > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] [announce] s6-rc, a s6-based service manager for Unix systems
On 28/09/2015 22:05, Rob Owens wrote: Here is a real-world scenario that has caused me trouble over the years. I have a system that connects wirelessly to my local network. The system uses wicd to manage the network connections, and wicd starts at boot. This system is supposed to mount several NFS shares on boot, but it always fails -- even when using openrc (which is dependency-based) on Funtoo. The problem is that even though wicd has started, it takes several seconds (sometimes up to 30 seconds) to acquire an ip address. In the meantime, NFS mounts are attempted and fail. This is typically a problem that is solved by readiness notification: the wicd service is not ready until later, and what depends on it should not proceed until it is ready. The service should notify its readiness to the service manager, which waits for it to resume its work. It's the exact kind of situation that s6-rc solves easily: there's a framework to notify readiness, that can accommodate a script that polls for it if there's no other way. And while dependent services are waiting on the network, other things that do not depend on it can keep getting initialized, so no time is wasted. -- Laurent ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] netman: support for wlan1, wlan2, ... and eth1, eth2, .... and new systemd's naming scheme
No awk necessary; the same system calls that /sbin/ip uses are available for Netman. And strace even reveals their names and the appropriate arguments. Arnt ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] What can I do after netman?
Yes, the address displayed by "ip addr". I'm getting the 192.168.x.x number with that command, and that's the one I need. Sorry I wasn't clear. fsr On 09/28/2015 04:26 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote: > So, you are talking about the address displayed by "ip addr"? Please, > forgive me to ask again, but I have to be certain to avoid writing > code in vain. > > On 28/09/2015, fsmithred wrote: >> I'm talking about the LAN address. A lot of times, one of the first things >> I do after booting into a new system is use sftp to move files. >> >> Also, with wicd, I've gotten used to seeing the local address, and I feel >> like it's a more reliable indicator that I'm online than just the word, >> Connected. But that's probably because I recall using >> gnome-network-manager, and it always lied to me, telling me I was >> connected when I wasn't, and vice versa. >> >> Thanks. >> >> BTW, the zipfile you uploaded a couple of hours ago compiles and runs. I >> forgot to look for the panel icon to change between connected and >> disconnected states. >> >> fsr >> >> >> On 09/28/2015 03:03 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote: >>> Quote: "Some way to display the IP address when connected, either >>> on-demand or >>> along with the word, Connected, or some other way." >>> --- >>> >>> Which ip address? If a pc is connected to a wifi the address is >>> something like 192.168.1.102. Are you talking about the ip address >>> used by the router to access the internet? >>> >>> Edward >>> >>> >>> On 28/09/2015, Edward Bartolo wrote: On 28/09/2015, Steve Litt wrote: > On Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:45:03 +0100 > Rainer Weikusat wrote: > >> ... and who wouldn't want his network interface to be named >> "enp0s29u1u2"? After all, anybody unterstands the meaning of eth0 --- >> how terribly boring! > > I don't like it either, but even anti-systemd distros are going for > this Freedesktop BS. Luckily, the following command is an easy way to > see the names of your network interfaces: > > ip link | grep "^\S" | cut -d " " -f2 > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt > August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts > http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > >> >> ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitu..?
On Mon, Sep 28, 2015 at 09:39:08PM +0200, natacha wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi, > > > On 09/28/2015 08:10 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: > > Hi natacha,The first four sections look pretty standard. > Yes, it is standard and very minimal, by curiosity, which txt are you > talking about? > > But if you haven't done a fairly accurate assessment of how the > > community actually getswork done, it's highly unlikely that what is > > written about governance will reflect reality. > What is up there is only a draft for possible organisation, and I > agree needs to be grounded on the functioning of the community, this > is actually what this process is about. > > Insteadit will confuse and frustrate newcomers, who will be forced to > learn two sets of "rules"-- oneofficial one that's clear yet largely > ineffectual, the other unspoken, complex, and real. (Thereare also > many other problems that can happen from this, but that alone should > be sufficientto be persuasive. Perhaps what we need is a document that describes how devuan does operate rather than one that says how it ought to operate. A descriptive, rathr than a prescriptive document. Maybe we'll need the prescriptve document later, but the descriptive one will do for now. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] Devuan Constitu..?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > > Perhaps what we need is a document that describes how devuan does > operate rather than one that says how it ought to operate. A > descriptive, rathr than a prescriptive document. Yes, this could be the way to the roadmap that was suggested by Richard, and would be invaluable. How could this be done? n. > > Maybe we'll need the prescriptve document later, but the > descriptive one will do for now. > > -- hendrik ___ Dng > mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJWCavDAAoJEB4vJZJLVJYmeZgQAKH+GsFDYEQPzMDFu2lOyEaK i6ChYhELud9nwWtwQMBgieW8vB53breZgtfpZIyh4GxuhAbKmbXL5AgYcbK+2yzv blWZRafkLEnQ7mBdBfm5O5P7o8P/dcSrJeM2/KwlpNoe6ap4w4Jm/oQn/oK/n/Me PSA8Nd9Xa0Gsetx+xypWlWhbzhAN/vrVMCn/zy0aqPAptY3p1qgnCBu36CbZmh6F WEL95ADsVGTKraHvSop7PvLJrYfPG1KbHr+ukFQHueDGLKtn+fzQos0UJEomzsJU EfWWjadjANpolvs2TBGrxrjOB+QslTy62UaAWoBaSh/yi13RGGJHLKsd0iahrzVt Zlm0lPgMI/xt5M48mSxurF/QoNLSk7muaDhjKOoE6XVQXnzhvYOmNXiiKyayYyde flzOeUvxGZP4HutOufE8i0mp2rXR+1MuJ2cicnkLLBG1sDwqTbzT7AHZJ/FYQSuS QFXAEJf9kmcEkxZoAJBOXRbHii3YWPs7kdHdNp2Axyda7u66qSYM9/RR/CXSwRgP U+M/KreTpp8MMGWaI+cXm2hC79F59i1P1knhkJVVWOVotLb2nKuVLiB2b86evuHa 9GVND3Ymj7bXgEQJvt8exteH64sKwS9H1Ofm42bqW+izvWGxqtf9PscnWXDroDMV Nq+h0JZduysWD98FiitM =kRwM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [DNG] live-build
You must change default mirrors: lb config -a amd64 \ --binary-images iso \ --distribution jessie \ --win32-loader false \ --checksums md5 \ --archive-areas "main" \ --apt-recommends false \ --apt aptitude \ --apt-options --yes \ --build-with-chroot false \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config locales=en_US.UTF-8 keyboard-layouts=en" \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config username=user" \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config full_username=User" \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config hostname=devuan" \ --parent-mirror-bootstrap="http://ftp.es.mirror.devuan.org/merged/"; \ --parent-mirror-chroot="http://ftp.es.mirror.devuan.org/merged/"; \ --parent-mirror-debian-installer="http://ftp.es.mirror.devuan.org/merged/"; \ --mirror-bootstrap="http://ftp.es.mirror.devuan.org/merged/"; \ --mirror-chroot="http://ftp.es.mirror.devuan.org/merged/"; \ --mirror-debian-installer="http://ftp.es.mirror.devuan.org/merged/"; Aitor. On 28/09/15 22:26, Ozi Traveller wrote: Hi Aitor. I ran the following and got this error. E: Release signed by unknown key (key id CBF8D6FD518E17E1) Ozi lb clean --purge lb init lb config -a amd64 \ --binary-images iso \ --distribution jessie \ --win32-loader false \ --checksums md5 \ --archive-areas "main" \ --apt-recommends false \ --apt aptitude \ --apt-options --yes \ --build-with-chroot false \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config locales=en_US.UTF-8 keyboard-layouts=en" \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config username=user" \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config full_username=User" \ --bootappend-live "boot=live config hostname=devuan" ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
