Re: [DNG] Offtopic: pointed messages?

[Simon Hobson]

Mitt  wrote:

> I noticed that my messages are not pointed to those who they are sent to. See 
> image
> https://imgur.com/J4UaT7D

Are you referring to the fact that it's not shown in "it's place in the tree" 
like the rest of the messages ?
If so, then that's because your mails don't contain In-Reply-To: or References: 
headers. Without those, the archive has to use the subject line to thread 
messages, and it can't "link" them because it's now way of knowing which other 
message your's was in reply to. Interestingly, while looking through my inbox 
for this list, I see a few other users with the same issue.

The flip side is that when using an MUA that does correctly insert such 
headers, people who start a new thread by hitting reply to an existing message 
and changing the subject result in two thread being mingled in some archives - 
the References: refers to a message in the other thread, so the messages 
starting the new thread get inserted in "their place in teh tree" of that old 
thread.

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Re: [DNG] remove systemd for the love of Yog-Sothoth already

[Rainer Weikusat]

Adam Borowski  writes:
> Today on #debconf:
>
> 20:11 < paultag> devuan can pick a fight once they release
> 20:11 < paultag> Hell, they can pick a fight once they stop installing 
> systemd by default

Technically, this is a threat: "Should Devuan ever release something, an
event I don't really believe in, I'm more than ready to fight
them". While this nicely illustrates what I'd dub the "new-style Debian
mentality" and I certainly neither like to meet any person behaving in
this way nor consider discussing anything with one and it presumably
rhymes nicely with some of the more aggressive people on this list and
could thus considered to be a bait, what was the point, exactly?
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Re: [DNG] xfce not shutting down on Devuan

[James Powell]

Xfce requires ConsoleKit or ConsoleKit2 and the startup ran with the flag 
"startxfce --with-ck-launch".

From: iguleder
Sent: ‎8/‎23/‎2015 11:48 PM
To: adamdm
Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [DNG] xfce not shutting down on Devuan

apt-get update;apt-get -y upgrade

I've spent many nights debugging power/session management issues in Xfce on 
Devuan - all confirmed disabled button issues are fixed.




Let me know if the problem persists.


 On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 01:26:16 +0300 adamdm wrote 


I can't shutdown Devuan from xfce, the button is just disabled...
Am I missing something?

Thanks
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Re: [DNG] xfce not shutting down on Devuan

[Edward Bartolo]

If that is the case, how do I get the 'suspend' and 'hibernate'
buttons? I have pm-utils installed and I am using Devuan 64 bit.

On 24/08/2015, iguleder  wrote:
> apt-get update;apt-get -y upgrade
>
> I've spent many nights debugging power/session management issues in Xfce on
> Devuan - all confirmed disabled button issues are fixed.
>
>
>
>
> Let me know if the problem persists.
>
>
>  On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 01:26:16 +0300 adamdm
> wrote 
>
> I can't shutdown Devuan from xfce, the button is just disabled...
> Am I missing something?
>
> Thanks
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>
>
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Re: [DNG] remove systemd for the love of Yog-Sothoth already

[Jaromil]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015, Rainer Weikusat wrote:
> could thus considered to be a bait, what was the point, exactly?

ehehehe, exactly

BTW on the bright side, yesterday I did something quite daring

went switching from Debian wheezy to Devuan jessie on a production
machine which runs with an LVM raid setup and to which I didn't even had
physical access.

after the typical apt-get update + change apt sources + dist-upgrade all
went very well, one reboot needed to switch the running init to sysvinit
before being able to remove the systemd package, then a liberating
autoremove which brought away a lot of dependencies.

I was impressed how smooth it went and how much less resources are used
on the server. I keep reading of people loosing access to remote
machines when upgrading to Debian jessie, now I wonder if the upgrade
path to Devuan can be declared to be a more stable choice already...


ciao

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Re: [DNG] xfce not shutting down on Devuan

[iguleder]

AFAIK pm-utils should be enough, but make sure you restart Xfce.

 On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:22:31 +0300 Edward Bartolo  
wrote  

If that is the case, how do I get the 'suspend' and 'hibernate' 
buttons? I have pm-utils installed and I am using Devuan 64 bit. 
 
On 24/08/2015, iguleder  wrote: 
> apt-get update;apt-get -y upgrade 
> 
> I've spent many nights debugging power/session management issues in Xfce 
on 
> Devuan - all confirmed disabled button issues are fixed. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let me know if the problem persists. 
> 
> 
>  On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 01:26:16 +0300 
adamdm<ada...@trueleet.com> 
> wrote  
> 
> I can't shutdown Devuan from xfce, the button is just disabled... 
> Am I missing something? 
> 
> Thanks 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




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Re: [DNG] frontend GUI implementation

[Edward Bartolo]

I have just discovered a BUG in the frontend.

When the frontend is invoked through the use of a launcher, the
backend's environment path will not be the directory to which the
front end and backend are installed. This is not the case if the
launcher is copied to the directory containing the executables.

I edited one line in the Lazarus code for the frontend and the problem
has been resolved:

To correct the issue edit 'backend.pas' as follows:
AProcess.Parameters.Add(ExtractFileDir(Application.ExeName) + '/' + exe);

On 23/08/2015, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
> There is a unit called threader.pas that is not used. Please, discard
> it as it has errors.
>
> On 23/08/2015, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
>> I am sending a .tar.gz file with the Lazarus project together with the
>> compiled executable. The latter is named netman and is found together
>> with the Pascal source files. It is a 5.6 MB executable for the reason
>> Lazarus uses static linking which increases portability.
>>
>> To run netman, place backend in the same directory and setup sudo so
>> that backend can run with root privileges. Create a new directory wifi
>> under /etc/network and that  is it. netman can even run from within
>> the home directory.
>>
>> Hopefully, you find it reaches the desired standard.
>>
>> Edward
>>
>>
>> On 23/08/2015, Jaromil  wrote:
>>>
>>> dear Edward
>>>
>>> On Sun, 23 Aug 2015, Edward Bartolo wrote:
>>>
 Although I have a working Lazarus written frontend, I am getting the
 message, it may not be accepted in Devuan, for the reason it is
 written in Lazarus Pascal.
>>>
>>> I doubt that can be a valid reason to exclude your code from being
>>> packaged and redistributed. Lazarus is GPL licensed and if your code
>>> works well and efficiently enough, I'd be against discriminating it for
>>> the language is written in.
>>>
>>> if you have spare time left to invest into this I recommend doing a .deb
>>> package so we can easily test it
>>>
>>>
>>> ciao
>>>
>>>
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>>
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Re: [DNG] frontend GUI implementation

[Edward Bartolo]

The line number is 117.

On 24/08/2015, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
> I have just discovered a BUG in the frontend.
>
> When the frontend is invoked through the use of a launcher, the
> backend's environment path will not be the directory to which the
> front end and backend are installed. This is not the case if the
> launcher is copied to the directory containing the executables.
>
> I edited one line in the Lazarus code for the frontend and the problem
> has been resolved:
>
> To correct the issue edit 'backend.pas' as follows:
> AProcess.Parameters.Add(ExtractFileDir(Application.ExeName) + '/' + exe);
>
> On 23/08/2015, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
>> There is a unit called threader.pas that is not used. Please, discard
>> it as it has errors.
>>
>> On 23/08/2015, Edward Bartolo  wrote:
>>> I am sending a .tar.gz file with the Lazarus project together with the
>>> compiled executable. The latter is named netman and is found together
>>> with the Pascal source files. It is a 5.6 MB executable for the reason
>>> Lazarus uses static linking which increases portability.
>>>
>>> To run netman, place backend in the same directory and setup sudo so
>>> that backend can run with root privileges. Create a new directory wifi
>>> under /etc/network and that  is it. netman can even run from within
>>> the home directory.
>>>
>>> Hopefully, you find it reaches the desired standard.
>>>
>>> Edward
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23/08/2015, Jaromil  wrote:

 dear Edward

 On Sun, 23 Aug 2015, Edward Bartolo wrote:

> Although I have a working Lazarus written frontend, I am getting the
> message, it may not be accepted in Devuan, for the reason it is
> written in Lazarus Pascal.

 I doubt that can be a valid reason to exclude your code from being
 packaged and redistributed. Lazarus is GPL licensed and if your code
 works well and efficiently enough, I'd be against discriminating it for
 the language is written in.

 if you have spare time left to invest into this I recommend doing a
 .deb
 package so we can easily test it


 ciao


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>>>
>>
>
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Re: [DNG] xfce not shutting down on Devuan

[Riccardo Boninsegna]

Il 24/ago/2015 09:50 AM, "iguleder"  ha scritto:
>
> AFAIK pm-utils should be enough, but make sure you restart Xfce.
>
>  On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 10:22:31 +0300 Edward Bartolo 
wrote 
>>
>> If that is the case, how do I get the 'suspend' and 'hibernate'
>> buttons? I have pm-utils installed and I am using Devuan 64 bit.

in Ascii, that is (unless some package, probably xfce4-session, was updated
from the version that was in Jessie a month ago)
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Re: [DNG] frontend GUI implementation

[tilt!]

Ok, got the line number - but where's the code :-D

On 08/24/2015 10:11 AM, Edward Bartolo wrote:

The line number is 117.

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Re: [DNG] frontend GUI implementation

[Edward Bartolo]

It is in an earlier reply in this same email thread:
23 August 2015 at 16:49 Malta time which should be equal to Germany time.

On 24/08/2015, tilt!  wrote:
> Ok, got the line number - but where's the code :-D
>
> On 08/24/2015 10:11 AM, Edward Bartolo wrote:
>> The line number is 117.
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Re: [DNG] remove systemd for the love of Yog-Sothoth already

[Svante Signell]

On Sun, 2015-08-23 at 23:06 +0200, Svante Signell wrote:
> On Sun, 2015-08-23 at 20:34 +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > Today on #debconf:
> > 
> > 20:11 < paultag> devuan can pick a fight once they release
> > 20:11 < paultag> Hell, they can pick a fight once they stop installing 
> > systemd by default
> > 20:11 < paultag> which they still do
> > 
> > Guys... _still_ installing systemd by default is pathethic.  I provided a
> > set of desystemdized de-libsystemd0-ed packaged half a year ago (deb-src
> > http://angband.pl/debian nosystemd-{jessie,stretch}), and other than upower,
> > it was a matter of a bunch of trivial changes to debian/{control,rules,...}.

I already use your repo for a mix between Devuan and yours. The only
remaining component missing is Judes vdev, to replace udev, in order to
throw out all systemd-related packages!

BTW: Why don't you commit to maintain some of the packages you are
already hosting in Devuan?

> > The time frame becomes bad... you don't want to be laughed at, do you?
> 
> Couldn't agree more. The problem seems to be people committing to
> maintain packages :(

See above, the DNG mailing list is mostly full of discussions and not
much actions, except for from a few people. Please adopt a package!

>  I for one am willing to maintain some, but the
> devuan git development process is still not clear to me. 

This issue is still hindering me from fully maintain packages, a clear
TODO is needed, preferably somewhere on the Devuan website. I've started
writing one but it is just started. One problem how to create and pull
the pristine tar and other branches: For example policykit-1 (which I'm
one of the uploaders of) has all branches of stable:
#> git branch
* master
  patch-queue/master
  pristine-tar
  upstream

while xfce4-session only has:
  master
* patch-queue/master

Add to that all releases:
jessie (stable), ascii (testing) , ceres (unstable)
and the situation gets even more complicated.

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Re: [DNG] xfce not shutting down on Devuan

[aitor_czr]

I still have not tested Xfce in Devuan, i will do it as soon as possible.

Aitor.

On 24/08/15 10:11, Edward Bartolo  wrote:

If that is the case, how do I get the 'suspend' and 'hibernate'
buttons? I have pm-utils installed and I am using Devuan 64 bit.

On 24/08/2015, iguleder  wrote:

>apt-get update;apt-get -y upgrade
>
>I've spent many nights debugging power/session management issues in Xfce on
>Devuan - all confirmed disabled button issues are fixed.
>
>
>
>
>Let me know if the problem persists.
>
>
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 01:26:16 +0300adamdm
>wrote 
>
>I can't shutdown Devuan from xfce, the button is just disabled...
>Am I missing something?
>
>Thanks


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Re: [DNG] remove systemd for the love of Yog-Sothoth already

[Simon Hobson]

Svante Signell  wrote:

> See above, the DNG mailing list is mostly full of discussions and not
> much actions, except for from a few people.

That is the impression I'd got as well.

Now I'll preface the next bit with ... this is not meant to be an insult or 
criticism, so please don't take it that way. It's intended to be constructive 
suggestions from the POV of a sysadmin looking to avoid SystemD - a refugee 
from Debian Jessie if you like. I'll add that my programming skills these days 
don't extend much beyond Bash scripting and some SQL. And also add that as a 
fairly new arrival here, I'm aware that some of the "bits I perceive as 
missing" may actually be there but I haven't found them yet.

ISTM that the priorities need to be :

1) Get something working !
That means having the systems in place so that the target audience can get a 
system up and running without too much hassle. And also having all the needed 
files/packages present.
If in the short term that means having SystemD (or bits of it) then so be it - 
IMO it's better to have something that works, and a clear strategy for 
disinfecting it, than to have nothing at all.
I've seen some threads regarding installation issues, so I can see that there 
is both progress and work still to do there.


2) Get devs on board. As hit on by Svante, that means having the processes in 
place so that those that are capable and willing to support the project can do 
so - ie having the systems in place to manage and build the packages.
Just in this thread I've seen evidence that at least one person has their own 
repository of "fixed" packages. That's great, but for production servers, the 
PHBs out there expect to see "official" packages that have gone through the 
projects QA process at least. PHBs tend to get nervous about using packages 
that have some similarities with the electronic version of "I got it from a 
bloke in the pub".

2) Get users on board. That needs 1 and 2.


4) Properly disinfect the remnants of SystemD out. Now I've refused to upgrade 
to Debian Jessie (I tested one server, rolled it back to a backup) because 
packages I need have added gratuitous SystemD dependencies. The weightings to 
that decision change significantly when it's "SystemD is there but we're 
working really hard to get rid of it" vs "shut up it's here to stay".


Notice that there's 2off number 2 there ? I think there's a chicken and egg 
problem - and a limited time window.
Without the user base, there's perhaps less appeal for devs; without the devs, 
there's the risk of not providing a compelling "product" for the users.

If it takes too long, refugees from Debian+SystemD will come along enticed by 
the references in the trade comics/blogs etc - and if there's nothing useful to 
see then are likely to get disillusioned and wander off. How many times have 
you seen something announced, there's a lot of buzz (and hype - though not 
necessarily from the project), and then when reality sinks in it all sort of 
deflates as potential users find out it "doesn't deliver".
As to timescale, at present Wheezy is in support - and so security updates 
should still come through. C.f. clamav-daemon has been updated for Wheezy 
without the libsystemd0 dependency it has in Jessie. So to a large extent I (as 
a sysadmin) have some legitimate reason why I can hold off "upgrading" to 
Jessie.
As soon as Jessie+1 is released, then Wheezy becomes unsupported. At that 
point, it's hard(er) to argue against having to upgrade.


So I'd say ... Yes, remove SystemD please. But it's not the first thing that 
needs to happen.

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[DNG] libpam-systemd

[Hendrik Boom]

Is libpam-systemd needed by devuan?  Because that's the only package 
I have installed that would be broken by removing systemd itself.

Since it appears to have something do do with authentication, I'm 
concerned that I may not be able to log in after I've removed it to undo 
damage.

-- hendrik

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[DNG] xfce has logout icon but no login/suspend/shutdown menu

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:26:16AM +0200, adamdm wrote:
> I can't shutdown Devuan from xfce, the button is just disabled...
> Am I missing something?

When I first installed devuan from alpha2, just a bit over a week ago, 
the shutdown button was there, and worked.  Actually, there was a word 
at the right end of the top panel that produced a menu offering 
everything from logout to shurtdown.
  
Then I copied /home/hendrik from my old Debian jessie installation, 
put my login information from Debian into /etc/passwd and 
/etc/shadow.

Now that word is wntirely missing, together with the its menu.  Though I 
do have a logout icon in the top panel.

I now have a logout button

This suggests to me that it might have something to so with the 
user's xcfe configuration.

I should test that by logging into the guest account, which was *not* 
copied from Debian and seeing it the menu is back.

-- hendrik

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Re: [DNG] Offtopic: pointed messages?

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 08:02:35AM +0100, Simon Hobson wrote:
> Mitt  wrote:
> 
> > I noticed that my messages are not pointed to those who they are sent to. 
> > See image
> > https://imgur.com/J4UaT7D
> 
> Are you referring to the fact that it's not shown in "it's place in the tree" 
> like the rest of the messages ?
> If so, then that's because your mails don't contain In-Reply-To: or 
> References: headers. Without those, the archive has to use the subject line 
> to thread messages, and it can't "link" them because it's now way of knowing 
> which other message your's was in reply to. Interestingly, while looking 
> through my inbox for this list, I see a few other users with the same issue.
> 
> The flip side is that when using an MUA that does correctly insert 
> such headers, people who start a new thread by hitting reply to an 
> existing message and changing the subject result in two thread being 
> mingled in some archives - the References: refers to a message in the 
> other thread, so the messages starting the new thread get inserted in 
> "their place in teh tree" of that old thread.

When the topic of  a thread gradually drifts, it is quite 
useful to change the subject line acccordingly.  THis makes it 
easier to find the new subject in the archives, but its context is 
retained because the "References" header makes sure it's in its roper 
place.

-- hendrik
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[DNG] shutdown is there for one user, not for another

[Hendrik Boom]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 09:32:11AM -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 12:26:16AM +0200, adamdm wrote:
> > I can't shutdown Devuan from xfce, the button is just disabled...
> > Am I missing something?
> 
> When I first installed devuan from alpha2, just a bit over a week ago, 
> the shutdown button was there, and worked.  Actually, there was a word 
> at the right end of the top panel that produced a menu offering 
> everything from logout to shurtdown.
>   
> Then I copied /home/hendrik from my old Debian jessie installation, 
> put my login information from Debian into /etc/passwd and 
> /etc/shadow.
> 
> Now that word is wntirely missing, together with the its menu.  Though I 
> do have a logout icon in the top panel.
> 
> I now have a logout button
> 
> This suggests to me that it might have something to so with the 
> user's xcfe configuration.
> 
> I should test that by logging into the guest account, which was *not* 
> copied from Debian and seeing it the menu is back.

Tried that.  From the guest user created at installation time I Have a 
lock screen/suspend/shutdown/logout menu on the right end of the top 
icon panel.  Only the 'switch user' item is greyed out.

From my own account, which was copied from Debian Jessie, I have 
only a logout icon.

So it looks as if the matter may depend on the user's xcfe 
configuration.
 Perhaps we should be looking at the dotfiles.

-- hendrik
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Re: [DNG] libpam-systemd

[Riccardo Boninsegna]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 3:15 PM, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> Is libpam-systemd needed by devuan?  Because that's the only package
> I have installed that would be broken by removing systemd itself.
>
> Since it appears to have something do do with authentication, I'm
> concerned that I may not be able to log in after I've removed it to undo
> damage.

You're correct that PAM is used (by default) for user login and stuff;
but the package you're mentioning is effectively an "output plugin"
for PAM, used by logind to check if users are logged in (consolekit
has its equivalent)!
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Re: [DNG] shutdown is there for one user, not for another

[Riccardo Boninsegna]

On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Hendrik Boom  wrote:
> I Have a lock screen/suspend/shutdown/logout menu on the right end of the top
> icon panel.  Only the 'switch user' item is greyed out.
>
> From my own account, which was copied from Debian Jessie, I have
> only a logout icon.
>
> So it looks as if the matter may depend on the user's xcfe
> configuration.
>  Perhaps we should be looking at the dotfiles.

The panel plugin is the same -- Action Buttons (or so I vaguely
remember), but you can change its style (buttons or menu) with right
click → Properties!
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Re: [DNG] remove systemd for the love of Yog-Sothoth already

[aitor_czr]

Hi Svante,

Pristine-tar branch guarantees a constant checksum in the sources *.bz2. 
The packager should not make changes in the source (this is only for the 
developer), all the changes must be done in the debian branch using 
quilt. Shortly i will write a little guide explaining how to create the 
pristine-tar branch (Joey Hess wrote something about that), etc...


Aitor.

On 24/08/15 14:00, Svante Signell  wrote:

This issue is still hindering me from fully maintain packages, a clear
TODO is needed, preferably somewhere on the Devuan website. I've started
writing one but it is just started. One problem how to create and pull
the pristine tar and other branches: For example policykit-1 (which I'm
one of the uploaders of) has all branches of stable:
#> git branch
* master
   patch-queue/master
   pristine-tar
   upstream

while xfce4-session only has:
   master
* patch-queue/master


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Re: [DNG] libpam-systemd

[iguleder]

We already took care of it, using amprolla overrides. Affected packages are 
xfce4-power-manager and xfce4-session. Both recommend it.

 On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 16:15:35 +0300 Hendrik 
Boom wrote  

Is libpam-systemd needed by devuan? Because that's the only package 
I have installed that would be broken by removing systemd itself.

Since it appears to have something do do with authentication, I'm 
concerned that I may not be able to log in after I've removed it to undo 
damage.

-- hendrik

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Re: [DNG] xfce not shutting down on Devuan

[Steve Litt]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 05:53:53 +0100
Edward Bartolo  wrote:

> 
> On 24/08/2015, Steve Litt  wrote:
> > On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 00:26:16 +0200
> > adamdm  wrote:
> >
> >> I can't shutdown Devuan from xfce, the button is just disabled...
> >> Am I missing something?
> >
> > I've intermittently had this problem on multiple versions of
> > multiple distros. I think of it as being part of the plan --- just
> > the way life is.
> >
> > If you're really concerned about it, you could put in a
> > (complicated) hotkey combo to run a shellscript that runs poweroff,
> > and make sure that poweroff is set in sudoers to run as root and
> > require no password (assuming this is a personal computer, and not
> > a multiuser).
> >
> > By the way, if you happen to be booting to the command prompt and
> > then running startx, Xfce is functioning as designed when it grays
> > out its shutdown and reboot buttons.
> >
> > SteveT
> >
> > Steve Litt
> > August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
> > http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
> > ___
> > Dng mailing list
> > Dng@lists.dyne.org
> > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
> >

> Could we create a simple application that displays a logout modal
> window similar to the one displayed by xfce4, remove the default
> logout menu item from xfce4 and create our own one. With GTK2 it
> shouldn't be that difficult to create it? We would only need to setup
> sudo to run the littel GTK2 app.
> 
> What do you think?

Personally, I think it's too small a problem to address at all. But if
we do address the problem, I guess as a distro we should fix the root
cause (whatever it is), not patch around it.

SteveT

Steve Litt 
August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
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Re: [DNG] libpam-systemd

[Irrwahn]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 09:15:35 -0400, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> Is libpam-systemd needed by devuan?  Because that's the only package 
> I have installed that would be broken by removing systemd itself.
> 
> Since it appears to have something do do with authentication, I'm 
> concerned that I may not be able to log in after I've removed it to undo 
> damage.

No, libpam-systemd is not needed. What you may find useful though 
(depending on your scenario) is consolekit, policykit-1 and libpam-
ck-connector. You can find a alpha-2 installer walk-through here: 
http://wiki.friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/installing_devuan_1.0_jessie_alpha2

HTH, HAND
Urban
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Re: [DNG] xfce not shutting down on Devuan

[Irrwahn]

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 11:48:54 -0400, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 05:53:53 +0100
> Edward Bartolo  wrote:
>> On 24/08/2015, Steve Litt  wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 00:26:16 +0200
>>> adamdm  wrote:
 I can't shutdown Devuan from xfce, the button is just disabled...
 Am I missing something?

>>> If you're really concerned about it, you could put in a
>>> (complicated) hotkey combo to run a shellscript that runs poweroff,
>>> and make sure that poweroff is set in sudoers to run as root and
>>> require no password (assuming this is a personal computer, and not
>>> a multiuser).

>> Could we create a simple application that displays a logout modal
>> window similar to the one displayed by xfce4, remove the default
>> logout menu item from xfce4 and create our own one. With GTK2 it
>> shouldn't be that difficult to create it? We would only need to setup
>> sudo to run the littel GTK2 app.
>>
>> What do you think?
> 
> Personally, I think it's too small a problem to address at all. But if
> we do address the problem, I guess as a distro we should fix the root
> cause (whatever it is), not patch around it.

Seconded, especially since AFAICT the issue has already been addressed.
Proof is I'm running Devuan ascii and jessie installations (metal and vbox) 
and got LogOut/Restart/ShutDown from the Xfce "Action Buttons" (that's 
apparently the official name of the Xfce shutdown menu) working flawlessly. 

Best Regards
Irrwahn




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[DNG] shutdown is there for one user, not for another

[aitor_czr]

Adding or removing an user in the system affects also to other files 
like /etc/group, /etc/gshadow, /etc/subuid and /etc/subgid.


Aitor.

El 24/08/15 a las 17:48, Hendrik Boom  escribió:

Then I copied /home/hendrik from my old Debian jessie installation,
>put my login information from Debian into /etc/passwd and
>/etc/shadow.


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Re: [DNG] shutdown is there for one user, not for another

[Hendrik Boom]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 03:29:31AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote:
> Adding or removing an user in the system affects also to other files
> like /etc/group, /etc/gshadow, /etc/subuid and /etc/subgid.

Forgot about those.  Thanks.

-- hendrik

> 
> Aitor.
> 
> El 24/08/15 a las 17:48, Hendrik Boom  escribió:
> >Then I copied /home/hendrik from my old Debian jessie installation,
> >>put my login information from Debian into /etc/passwd and
> >>/etc/shadow.
> 

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[DNG] wpa_supplicant/ifup integration documentation

[Isaac Dunham]

On Thu, Aug 20, 2015 at 10:28:45PM +0200, Didier Kryn wrote:
> I would also like to know what your understanding is of how the things
> are handled by the cooperative interaction of ifup, ifdown and
> wpa_supplicant. This is something for which I cannot find a comprehensive
> description, and I think a full understanding is necessary *prior* to
> endeavour what you are doing. This is because these 3 tools are doing a lot
> of things, and rather well and it is
> a waste of time and talent to re-invent the wheel.


As I understand, he's writing a UI to configure /etc/network/interfaces
to use the wpa_supplicant plugin.

For your perusal, here's an overview of how they work together; it's a 100+
line summary.
If anyone wants more details, here are some sources:
Manual pages:
interfaces(5), wpa_supplicant.conf(5), wpa_supplicant(8), wpa_cli(8),
wpa_action(8).
Scripts:
/sbin/wpa_action
/etc/network/if-*.d/wpasupplicant
/etc/wpa_supplicant/*.sh
(/etc/wpa_supplicant/functions.sh is going to be needed if you want a
low-level understanding of what's going on; the script authors have an
exceptional capacity for indirection.)

You will need to read the scripts for a practical understanding of how
it works, but the interfaces, wpa_cli, and wpa_action manpages are rather
helpful for understanding the glue.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, Didier!

HTH,
Isaac Dunham
wpa_supplicant and ifup integration

ifup is a one-shot command for bringing up interfaces, oriented towards
wired connections; it converts a "stanza" of options to a series of
commands that will configure an interface.
It's the standard way to configure the IP address/routing of an interface,
and is configured by /etc/network/interfaces (though another configuration
can be specified via the "-i" option).

wpa_supplicant is a daemon for negotiating connections with wireless
networks. It's configured via a user-specified config file, traditionally
/etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf, or commands passed via unix
sockets. It can notify other programs about changes in connection state,
but has no built-in way of configuring IP addresses, routing, or commands
to run.
wpa_cli is a tool that sends commands to wpa_supplicant via unix sockets,
as well as listening for notifications from wpa_supplicant. It can run
user-specified programs on connection state changes.

Fortunately, ifup supports plugins.
These plugins are scripts living in /etc/network/if-{up,down}.d/ (I'm not sure
if the scripts in /etc/network/if-{pre,post}-{up,down}.d/ should be called
plugins or not), which are invoked at interface configuration time with
no arguments but a rather large environment determined by the appropriate
stanza in /etc/network/interfaces.
Some of the relevant variables:
IFACE   The current physical interface
MODE"start" or "stop"
PHASE   pre/post up/down
LOGICAL the current logical interface
IF_*(set from option names: [-a-z] becomes [_A-Z], all characters
except [_A-Z0-9] discarded, IF_ prepended).
IF_WPA_*(set from wpa-* options in the current stanza)

Some of these plugins allow configuration of wireless networks via iwtools
and wpa_supplicant.
To use wpa_supplicant from ifup, you will use the wpa_supplicant plugin.
On non-Debian-based systems, you may need to install this manually.


Example:
# ifup wlan0=home
# interfaces:
iface home inet dhcp
hostname somewhere
wpa-ssid ESSID
wpa-psk topsecret

iface public inet dhcp
wpa-ssid any


That allows multiple networks to be used, but not transparently.
For that, you need wpa_supplicant roaming:
#auto wlan0
iface wlan0 inet dhcp
hostname somewhere


wpa.conf:
ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
network={
ssid="ESSID"
#psk="topsecret"
psk=bfd06f8718e250cd256c8f31344229067c4f58dc86104d4145ba0ae753c19a1b
}
network={
ssid=any
key_mgmt=NONE
}

At this point you might wonder how to automatically run the DHCP
client when you connect, rather than when you set the interface up.
This actually happens, but there's a bit more behind the scenes.
When wpa_supplicant runs, ifup also runs something like:
 wpa_cli -i  -a 
This action script can run the DHCP client on demand.
A simple example:
case "$2" in
CONNECTED) udhcpc -i "$1" ;;
DISCONNECTED) killall udhcpc ;;
esac


Now, how do you get wpa_supplicant to configure connections to two different
networks differently?
This is where ifup integration the opposite way comes in handy.

First, what it looks like:
#wpa_supplicant.conf:
ctrl_interface=DIR=/var/run/wpa_supplicant GROUP=netdev
network={
id_str=priv
ssid="ESSID"
#psk="topsecret"
psk=bfd06f8718e250cd256c8f31344229067c4f58dc86104d4145ba0ae753c19a1b
}
network={
ssid=any
key_mgmt=NONE
}

#/etc/network/interfaces:
iface default inet dhcp
hostname somewhere

iface priv inet static
   

Re: [DNG] shutdown is there for one user, not for another

[Daniel Reurich]

On 25/08/15 13:32, Hendrik Boom wrote:

On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 03:29:31AM +0200, aitor_czr wrote:

Adding or removing an user in the system affects also to other files
like /etc/group, /etc/gshadow, /etc/subuid and /etc/subgid.


Forgot about those.  Thanks.



Actually no don't, atleast /etc/group is important if not the others. 
If you've ended up with uid/gid mismatch you'll end up with all manner 
of things not working for DE users that should.


Regards,
Daniel

--
Daniel Reurich
Centurion Computer Technology (2005) Ltd.
021 797 722
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Re: [DNG] xfce not shutting down on Devuan

[aitor_czr]

Perhaps oblogout coult be adapted to Xfce.

Aitor.

On 24/08/15 17:48, Steve Litt  wrote:

On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 05:53:53 +0100
Edward Bartolo  wrote:


>
>On 24/08/2015, Steve Litt  wrote:

> >On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 00:26:16 +0200
> >adamdm  wrote:
> >

> >>I can't shutdown Devuan from xfce, the button is just disabled...
> >>Am I missing something?

> >
> >I've intermittently had this problem on multiple versions of
> >multiple distros. I think of it as being part of the plan --- just
> >the way life is.
> >
> >If you're really concerned about it, you could put in a
> >(complicated) hotkey combo to run a shellscript that runs poweroff,
> >and make sure that poweroff is set in sudoers to run as root and
> >require no password (assuming this is a personal computer, and not
> >a multiuser).
> >
> >By the way, if you happen to be booting to the command prompt and
> >then running startx, Xfce is functioning as designed when it grays
> >out its shutdown and reboot buttons.
> >
> >SteveT
> >
> >Steve Litt
> >August 2015 featured book: Troubleshooting: Just the Facts
> >http://www.troubleshooters.com/tjust
> >___
> >Dng mailing list
> >Dng@lists.dyne.org
> >https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
> >

>Could we create a simple application that displays a logout modal
>window similar to the one displayed by xfce4, remove the default
>logout menu item from xfce4 and create our own one. With GTK2 it
>shouldn't be that difficult to create it? We would only need to setup
>sudo to run the littel GTK2 app.
>
>What do you think?

Personally, I think it's too small a problem to address at all. But if
we do address the problem, I guess as a distro we should fix the root
cause (whatever it is), not patch around it.

SteveT


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