[Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/11/2015 12:56 AM, Steve Litt wrote: On Wed, 10 Jun 2015 20:15:13 +0200 Jaromil wrote: re all, to avoid dispersion I've hacked together a file download zone which is pulling builds from various places and updating a binary file repository where people can download the latest ALPHA series releases. Also the integration with the new "debakker" tool automatically producing Qemu compressed images is on the way. The result is visible here: http://files.devuan.org This file repository will be kept up to date with latest releases, it now comprises of the Alpha2 i386 announced by Daniel aka Centurion_Dan, the Alpha2 amd64 built through our CI by Nextime and a Qemu image of the latter. Plus some historical traces of previous Alpha releases. This is too cool! Thanks to the ease of grabbing an ISO, I was able to install Devuan 64 bit net install on a VirtualBox VM. It had several errors, including some "debootstrap" stuff on nCurses, but I just kept trying over again until the whole thing got installed. I can now surf the net with Iceweasel. Thank you so much for this file repository. It makes it much easier for me to keep working with Devuan. It seems my fresh netboot install this morning has swallowed and installed systemd. It was an "expert" 64bit install of "jessie" with XFCE and subsequently firmware-linux-non-free had been installed for the embeded video and then the fglrx-driver installed. Not sure where it picked up the systemd along that path. Removing it and its namesake friends took out Network Manager, PulseAudio, CUPS and a bunch of assorted other bits I installed WICD to send this and will now put the furniture back in place. Warning: You will probably be seeing more of this kind of info from simple folks like me, now that testing is easier with a netboot iso. Clarke . ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Thu, 6/11/15, Clarke Sideroad wrote: Subject: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Thursday, June 11, 2015, 7:35 AM It seems my fresh netboot install this morning has swallowed and installed systemd. It was an "expert" 64bit install of "jessie" with XFCE and subsequently firmware-linux-non-free had been installed for the embeded video and then the fglrx-driver installed. Not sure where it picked up the systemd along that path. Removing it and its namesake friends took out Network Manager, PulseAudio, CUPS and a bunch of assorted other bits I installed WICD to send this and will now put the furniture back in place. Warning: You will probably be seeing more of this kind of info from simple folks like me, now that testing is easier with a netboot iso. Clarke - I have been wondering about this. There have been posts over at FDN putting down Devuan because there were still systemd packages installed. So is Devuan free of systemd libs or not? IIRC the Valentine's release had some systemd stuff but I thought it had all been eradicated by now. Sorry haven't been able to test. Still down with a bad back. golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 06:49:55AM -0700, Go Linux wrote: [cut] > > - > > I have been wondering about this. There have been posts over at FDN putting > down Devuan because there were still systemd packages installed. So is > Devuan free of systemd libs or not? IIRC the Valentine's release had some > systemd stuff but I thought it had all been eradicated by now. > > Sorry haven't been able to test. Still down with a bad back. > I think those images are still to be considered Alpha, not stable, as also explicitly stated by Jaromil in his email... HND KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:35:34 -0400 Clarke Sideroad wrote: > It seems my fresh netboot install this morning has swallowed and > installed systemd. > It was an "expert" 64bit install of "jessie" with XFCE and > subsequently firmware-linux-non-free had been installed for the > embeded video and then the fglrx-driver installed. Not sure where > it picked up the systemd along that path. > > Removing it and its namesake friends took out Network Manager, > PulseAudio, CUPS and a bunch of assorted other bits > I installed WICD to send this and will now put the furniture back in > place. > > Warning: You will probably be seeing more of this kind of info from > simple folks like me, now that testing is easier with a netboot iso. > > Clarke Hi Clarke, First, from what I understand, the microsecond you get Devuan Alpha 2 installed, go into /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the two from debian, leaving only the ones from devuan. I think that will help some. Second, my understanding is that NetworkManager and PulseAudio are so thoroughly infested with systemd that it's better to purge them from your system, like you'd throw a bedbug-ridden mattress into the dumpster. No use having that stuff hanging around. I **love** what they've done with Wicd, putting it on the menu right there in front of your face. Nice! Third, what leads you to the conclusion that your system installed systemd? On my VM-hosted Alpha-2 with LXDE, I have a whole bunch of files and directories with "systemd" in their names, but I think it has nothing to do with my bootup. To prove I was initting with sysvinit, I wrote the following shellscript called /root/testdaemon.sh: #!/bin/sh while true; do date >> /tmp/junk.log sleep 5 done The preceding program, when run, appends the time to /tmp/junk.log every five seconds, a thing you can see with the following command: tail -f /tmp/junk.log Then I put the following line right at the bottom of my /etc/inittab: SV:12345:respawn:/root/testdaemon.sh After I rebooted, /tmp/junk.log kept being appended, meaning that inittab was being read, meaning that sysvinit is doing the initting. SteveT Steve Litt June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/11/2015 09:04 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > > Hi Clarke, > > First, from what I understand, the microsecond you get Devuan Alpha 2 > installed, go into /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the two from > debian, leaving only the ones from devuan. I think that will help some. > > > Third, what leads you to the conclusion that your system installed > systemd? On my VM-hosted Alpha-2 with LXDE, I have a whole bunch of > files and directories with "systemd" in their names, but I think it has > nothing to do with my bootup. > Just to mention I installed the netboot alpha2 i386 disc last Friday. Selected Expert and Ceres install. I only selected the SSH server and nothing else as I like to have as much of a bootstrapped system as I can. Systemd was installed at this time. After the installation was completed I purged systemd and installed sysvinit. Talking on the IRC, it seems that most of the work is being put into Jessie and Ascii and Ceres are later. Chris ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/11/2015 11:04 AM, Steve Litt wrote: On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:35:34 -0400 Clarke Sideroad wrote: It seems my fresh netboot install this morning has swallowed and installed systemd. It was an "expert" 64bit install of "jessie" with XFCE and subsequently firmware-linux-non-free had been installed for the embeded video and then the fglrx-driver installed. Not sure where it picked up the systemd along that path. Removing it and its namesake friends took out Network Manager, PulseAudio, CUPS and a bunch of assorted other bits I installed WICD to send this and will now put the furniture back in place. Warning: You will probably be seeing more of this kind of info from simple folks like me, now that testing is easier with a netboot iso. Clarke Hi Clarke, First, from what I understand, the microsecond you get Devuan Alpha 2 installed, go into /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the two from debian, leaving only the ones from devuan. I think that will help some. Second, my understanding is that NetworkManager and PulseAudio are so thoroughly infested with systemd that it's better to purge them from your system, like you'd throw a bedbug-ridden mattress into the dumpster. No use having that stuff hanging around. I **love** what they've done with Wicd, putting it on the menu right there in front of your face. Nice! Third, what leads you to the conclusion that your system installed systemd? On my VM-hosted Alpha-2 with LXDE, I have a whole bunch of files and directories with "systemd" in their names, but I think it has nothing to do with my bootup. To prove I was initting with sysvinit, I wrote the following shellscript called /root/testdaemon.sh: #!/bin/sh while true; do date >> /tmp/junk.log sleep 5 done The preceding program, when run, appends the time to /tmp/junk.log every five seconds, a thing you can see with the following command: tail -f /tmp/junk.log Then I put the following line right at the bottom of my /etc/inittab: SV:12345:respawn:/root/testdaemon.sh After I rebooted, /tmp/junk.log kept being appended, meaning that inittab was being read, meaning that sysvinit is doing the initting. Hi Steve, These were fresh UEFI hard drive installs not a VM. From what I can see systemd is being installed with the base installation in both jessie and ceres. No debian in my sources.list only deb and deb-src devuan was in there, either for jessie or ceres depending on the installation choice. I noticed Sysvinit was being installed during the second install phase, but on the boot I have systemd. Maybe it is the init chooser that is defaulting to systemd. To confirm the installation of systemd, I checked by doing a search with Synaptic and sure enough the slimy thing was there with a green box next to it. I hope to mess with this later but it has swallowed too much of my time already today. I nuked the install and have returned to my hacked Debian version. Clarke ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
Hi Clarke, Can you: * give us a listing of which systemd packages are installed (something like "aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i")? * use "apt-cache rdepends" to show us which packages depend on them? Thanks, Jude On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 1:48 PM, Clarke Sideroad wrote: > On 06/11/2015 11:04 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > >> On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 08:35:34 -0400 >> Clarke Sideroad wrote: >> >> It seems my fresh netboot install this morning has swallowed and >>> installed systemd. >>> It was an "expert" 64bit install of "jessie" with XFCE and >>> subsequently firmware-linux-non-free had been installed for the >>> embeded video and then the fglrx-driver installed. Not sure where >>> it picked up the systemd along that path. >>> >>> Removing it and its namesake friends took out Network Manager, >>> PulseAudio, CUPS and a bunch of assorted other bits >>> I installed WICD to send this and will now put the furniture back in >>> place. >>> >>> Warning: You will probably be seeing more of this kind of info from >>> simple folks like me, now that testing is easier with a netboot iso. >>> >>> Clarke >>> >> Hi Clarke, >> >> First, from what I understand, the microsecond you get Devuan Alpha 2 >> installed, go into /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out the two from >> debian, leaving only the ones from devuan. I think that will help some. >> >> Second, my understanding is that NetworkManager and PulseAudio are so >> thoroughly infested with systemd that it's better to purge them from >> your system, like you'd throw a bedbug-ridden mattress into the >> dumpster. No use having that stuff hanging around. I **love** what >> they've done with Wicd, putting it on the menu right there in front of >> your face. Nice! >> >> Third, what leads you to the conclusion that your system installed >> systemd? On my VM-hosted Alpha-2 with LXDE, I have a whole bunch of >> files and directories with "systemd" in their names, but I think it has >> nothing to do with my bootup. >> >> To prove I was initting with sysvinit, I wrote the following >> shellscript called /root/testdaemon.sh: >> >> >> #!/bin/sh >> while true; do >>date >> /tmp/junk.log >>sleep 5 >> done >> >> >> The preceding program, when run, appends the time to /tmp/junk.log >> every five seconds, a thing you can see with the following command: >> >> tail -f /tmp/junk.log >> >> Then I put the following line right at the bottom of my /etc/inittab: >> >> SV:12345:respawn:/root/testdaemon.sh >> >> After I rebooted, /tmp/junk.log kept being appended, meaning that >> inittab was being read, meaning that sysvinit is doing the initting. >> >> >> Hi Steve, > > These were fresh UEFI hard drive installs not a VM. > From what I can see systemd is being installed with the base installation > in both jessie and ceres. > No debian in my sources.list only deb and deb-src devuan was in there, > either for jessie or ceres depending on the installation choice. > I noticed Sysvinit was being installed during the second install phase, > but on the boot I have systemd. > Maybe it is the init chooser that is defaulting to systemd. > > To confirm the installation of systemd, I checked by doing a search with > Synaptic and sure enough the slimy thing was there with a green box next to > it. > > I hope to mess with this later but it has swallowed too much of my time > already today. > I nuked the install and have returned to my hacked Debian version. > > Clarke > > > > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/11/2015 02:17 PM, Jude Nelson wrote: Hi Clarke, Can you: * give us a listing of which systemd packages are installed (something like "aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i")? * use "apt-cache rdepends" to show us which packages depend on them? Hi Jude, I'll do a reinstall this evening and get back to you. Work is calling right now. Clarke ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On 06/11/2015 02:17 PM, Jude Nelson wrote: Hi Clarke, Can you: * give us a listing of which systemd packages are installed (something like "aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i")? * use "apt-cache rdepends" to show us which packages depend on them? Hi Jude, * *Here they are as requested on a new 64bit expert install with XFCE selected as the desktop. HTH Clarke * aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i ** * i A libpam-systemd - system and service manager - PAM module i libsystemd0 - systemd utility library i systemd - system and service manager i A systemd-shim- shim for systemd *apt-cache rdepends libpam-systemd *libpam-systemd Reverse Depends: xfce4-session xfce4-power-manager systemd network-manager |lightdm gnome-settings-daemon gnome-session-bin gnome-bluetooth gdm3 argyll *apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0* libsystemd0 Reverse Depends: weston transmission-daemon tgt systemd-dbg systemd python3-systemd libsystemd-dev syslog-ng-core stunnel4 spice-vdagent sane-utils remctl-server realmd pulseaudio libpulse0 php5-fpm packagekit onak nsca-ng-server network-manager libmutter0e monopd mate-session-manager mate-screensaver light-locker libvirt0 libvirt-daemon-system libvirt-daemon libvirt-clients libguestfs0 lbcd knot-libs knot iodine inn libghc-libsystemd-journal-dev gvfs-daemons gnome-system-monitor gnome-shell gnome-session-bin gnome-screensaver gnome-logs gnome-disk-utility libgdm1 gdm3 fcgiwrap erlang-base-hipe erlang-base cups-daemon clamav-daemon cinnamon-settings-daemon cinnamon-session cinnamon-screensaver beanstalkd apt-cacher-ng acpi-fakekey libaccountsservice0 mpd *apt-cache rdepends systemd* systemd Reverse Depends: tuxonice-userui systemd-ui systemd-shim udev systemd-sysv systemd-sysv systemd-dbg libsystemd-dev libsystemd-dev libpam-systemd solaar sogo |mate-power-manager lxsession live-config-systemd lighttpd libvirt-daemon-system |libguestfs0 knot init-system-helpers gummiboot sysvinit-utils *apt-cache rdepends systemd-shim *systemd-shim Reverse Depends: |xfce4-session systemd |libpam-systemd init-select ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Thu, 11 Jun 2015 14:17:30 -0400 Jude Nelson wrote: > Hi Clarke, > > Can you: > * give us a listing of which systemd packages are installed > (something like "aptitude search systemd | egrep ^i")? > * use "apt-cache rdepends" to show us which packages depend on them? > > Thanks, > Jude I'll do it too. I have Devuan Alpha 64 bit installed in a VirtualBox VM, and AFAIK my only installed windowmanager/desktop is LXDE: == search systemd | egrep ^i i libsystemd0 - systemd utility library i systemd - system and service manager == == apt-cache rdepends libsystemd0 libsystemd0 Reverse Depends: weston transmission-daemon tgt systemd-dbg systemd python3-systemd libsystemd-dev syslog-ng-core stunnel4 spice-vdagent sane-utils remctl-server realmd pulseaudio libpulse0 php5-fpm packagekit onak nsca-ng-server network-manager libmutter0e monopd mate-session-manager mate-screensaver light-locker libvirt0 libvirt-daemon-system libvirt-daemon libvirt-clients libguestfs0 lbcd knot-libs knot iodine inn libghc-libsystemd-journal-dev gvfs-daemons gnome-system-monitor gnome-shell gnome-session-bin gnome-screensaver gnome-logs gnome-disk-utility libgdm1 gdm3 fcgiwrap erlang-base-hipe erlang-base cups-daemon clamav-daemon cinnamon-settings-daemon cinnamon-session cinnamon-screensaver beanstalkd apt-cacher-ng acpi-fakekey libaccountsservice0 mpd == == apt-cache rdepends systemd systemd Reverse Depends: tuxonice-userui systemd-ui systemd-shim udev systemd-sysv systemd-sysv systemd-dbg libsystemd-dev libsystemd-dev libpam-systemd solaar sogo |mate-power-manager lxsession live-config-systemd lighttpd libvirt-daemon-system |libguestfs0 knot init-system-helpers gummiboot sysvinit-utils == SteveT Steve Litt June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[Dng] lxterminal settings workaround, Devuan Alpha 2 64 bit
Hi all, Concerning Devuan Alpha 2 64 bit: If your permissions for $HOME/.config/lxterminal and $HOME/.config/lxterminal/lxterminal.conf are anything like mine, they're owned by root instead of you. The symptom is every time you change your lxterminal settings, they revert to the original. The workaround is: chown yourself.yourself $HOME/.config/lxterminal chown yourself.yourself $HOME/.config/lxterminal/lxterminal.conf SteveT Steve Litt June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 06:49:55AM -0700, Go Linux wrote: > I have been wondering about this. There have been posts over at FDN putting > down Devuan because there were still systemd packages installed. So is > Devuan free of systemd libs or not? IIRC the Valentine's release had some > systemd stuff but I thought it had all been eradicated by now. > > Sorry haven't been able to test. Still down with a bad back. > The images are still in *ALPHA*. Alpha, for us, would say "not yet complete". Not yet complete would say, for devuan, "not all packages have been recompiled yet". So, basically, we have a complete and working infrastructure ( not yet finished, there is a lot of work to do, but it's "enough" for the release ), there are many packages in our repository ( without systemd dependencies ), there are other packages in our gitlab that aren't yet in repository ( so, in the repository the same packages are coming from debian, WITH systemd dependency in some case ), there are packages not yet in our gitlab. Also, the debian-installer for devuan isn't yet finished, some rebranding are still needed, some fixes are still needed, and, more than anything else, the indices and override on the repository side is to be completed. For this reason if you install using the alpha there are still packages from debian that in a final devuan install will not be installed at all, and other with "wrong" dependencies, and then you finish the install by having systemd installed if you download the "wrong" packages, like, for example, gdm. Anyway, differently from debian, even in the alpha stage in devuan you can, right now and avoiding some packages like gnome things, have a completely systemd install. But it's NOT ready, it's NOT release, it's an alpha! When ALL needed packages will be ready AND overrides on the apt repository will be complete we will release a BETA version. You can assume the beta version should be completely systemd free by default, if it will not, it's a bug. When beta will be considered stable and we will be 100% sure it's completely systemd free, the beta will be marked as "release candidate", and eventually will be renamed as stable release. We are not fast building a toasting an iso, we are hardly working to create a stable, complete a future proof distro, with a stable, complete, future proof infrastructure. Let's the haters hate, and let's us all work for the good. Hope this clarify things. -- Franco (nextime) Lanza Lonate Pozzolo (VA) - Italy SIP://c...@casa.nexlab.it web: http://www.nexlab.net NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org you can download my public key at: http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers Key ID = D6132D50 Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 --- echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc --- signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Systemd sneaks in was file download zone
On Fri, 12 Jun 2015 04:11:12 +0200 Franco Lanza wrote: > Anyway, differently from debian, even in the alpha stage in devuan you > can, right now and avoiding some packages like gnome things, have a > completely systemd install. Even more to the point, unlike Debian, with Devuan Alpha 2 you can run an OS whose PID1 isn't systemd. I think tying everything else to PID1 was most peoples' major complaint, although by now most of us want to completely purge the init that shall not be mentioned. > Let's the haters hate, and Man, and they do hate, don't they. On my local LUG I posted how I created LittKit to give Daemontools ordered startup capability, never mentioning any init system, and right away it turned into a cheering session for systemd, and dissing of anyone who wasn't with the program. Sheesh, all I did was write about Free Software to make daemontools more capable. > let's us all work for the good. Yeah, that's why I'm proud to be friends with you guys. SteveT Steve Litt June 2015 featured book: The Key to Everyday Excellence http://www.troubleshooters.com/key ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
