[Dng] udev: File hwdb.bin is always being reported to be missing

[Irrwahn]

[ Ref. git.devuan.org/jaretcantu/eudev/issues/2 ]

Hello Jaret, 

since I cannot comment on git.devuan.org I'll try here instead.

I believe udev is complaining about the missing hwdb.bin file, 
because it is not present in the _initramfs_. Thus, a simple 
udevadm hwdb --update won't suffice, you'd also have to put it 
in the initramfs to silence udev.

A tiny little bit of research indicates that this "error" can 
presumably safely be ignored, since it was likely meant to be 
more of a debug message.

Regards,
Urban
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[Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[yvesjv]

Hi all,

Could be some slackware joke but I noticed a folder named systemd
within slack 14.1

bash-4.2# ls -l /lib/systemd/system/
total 8
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 298 Dec 31 07:38 laptop-mode.service
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 289 Dec 10 2011 wicd.service
bash-4.2#

Can anyone else see if that folder exists if you have slack64 14.1
installed somewhere?

the file _wicd.service _was deleted when I uninstalled wicd.

laptop-mode doesn't appear to be installed

Though the file contains

bash-4.2# cat /lib/systemd/system/laptop-mode.service
[Unit]
Description=Laptop Mode Tools

[Service]
Type=oneshot
RemainAfterExit=yes
ExecStart=/usr/sbin/laptop_mode init auto
ExecStop=/usr/sbin/laptop_mode init stop
ExecStopPost=/bin/rm -f /var/run/laptop-mode-tools/enabled
StandardOutput=tty
StandardError=tty

[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.target
bash-4.2# 

WTF??

Thanks

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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[Jack L. Frost]

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 07:29:03PM +1000, yve...@tpg.com.au wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>   Could be some slackware joke but I noticed a folder named systemd
> within slack 14.1

Probably upstream units that came in with 'make install' when building the
package.


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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[Matthew Melton]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dng [mailto:dng-boun...@lists.dyne.org] On Behalf Of Jack L. Frost
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 10:47 AM
> To: yve...@tpg.com.au
> Cc: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?
> 
> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 07:29:03PM +1000, yve...@tpg.com.au wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Could be some slackware joke but I noticed a folder named systemd
> > within slack 14.1
> 
> Probably upstream units that came in with 'make install' when building the
> package.

Agree with Jack here

I have a vps with slackware 14.1 and there is no folder probably because
there is no desktop related stuff installed

However 
 #slackpkg file-search systemd

Returns this 

 Looking for systemd in package list. Please wait... DONE

The list below shows the packages that contains "systemd" file.

[uninstalled] - hplip-3.13.10-x86_64-1
[uninstalled] - wicd-1.7.2.4-x86_64-4

You can search specific packages using "slackpkg search package".


But  I also get this

   #slackpkg file-search laptop-mode.service

   Looking for laptop-mode.service in package list. Please wait... DONE

   No packages contains "laptop-mode\.service" file.

So does not appear to have come from the packages...
Perhaps a stray file from SlackBuilds?

Matt 


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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[Anto]

On 19/05/15 11:29, yve...@tpg.com.au wrote:

Hi all,

Could be some slackware joke but I noticed a folder named systemd 
within slack 14.1


/bash-4.2# ls -l /lib/systemd/system/
total 8
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 298 Dec 31 07:38 laptop-mode.service
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 289 Dec 10 2011 wicd.service
bash-4.2#/

Can anyone else see if that folder exists if you have slack64 14.1 
installed somewhere?


the file /wicd.service /was deleted when I uninstalled wicd.


laptop-mode doesn't appear to be installed

Though the file contains

/bash-4.2# cat /lib/systemd/system/laptop-mode.service
[Unit]
Description=Laptop Mode Tools

[Service]
Type=oneshot
RemainAfterExit=yes
ExecStart=/usr/sbin/laptop_mode init auto
ExecStop=/usr/sbin/laptop_mode init stop
ExecStopPost=/bin/rm -f /var/run/laptop-mode-tools/enabled
StandardOutput=tty
StandardError=tty

[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.target
bash-4.2#/


WTF??


Thanks



I have never used Slackware but that is similar problem as I have 
experienced since last year with Debian wheezy. I think the main problem 
is that, a lot of upstream packages and their maintainers in most 
distros support systemd. So they intentionally add everything that 
systemd needs into those packages, *just in case* the users want to use 
systemd. That *just in case* thinking is what I really hate as it is 
stupid. And that is because of the systemd developers are just so dumb 
and idiot to be able to write modular program so that there is no need 
to change anything on any packages requiring it. Did that happen on 
sysvinit, upstart, openrc, etc.? If systemd would be modular, I would 
consider to use it.


In the last few weeks, every time after I install packages and I see 
/lib/systemd got created, I query the packages which create the files 
under that directory. Then I get the source code of those packages, 
clean them up from anything related to systemd, re-compile and install 
them. I am not sure how long I can do this though, as more and more 
packages get contaminated by systemd so cleaning them is getting harder 
and harder for me with my limited programming skill. For instance, last 
night I cleaned up lvm2 package. I think I have disabled some 
functionalities as I don't understand dmeventd for instance. So I think 
at some point I will stop doing it and start to move away from Linux.


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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[KatolaZ]

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 12:42:43PM +0200, Anto wrote:

[cut]

> 
> I have never used Slackware but that is similar problem as I have
> experienced since last year with Debian wheezy. I think the main
> problem is that, a lot of upstream packages and their maintainers in
> most distros support systemd. So they intentionally add everything
> that systemd needs into those packages, *just in case* the users
> want to use systemd. That *just in case* thinking is what I really
> hate as it is stupid. And that is because of the systemd developers
> are just so dumb and idiot to be able to write modular program so
> that there is no need to change anything on any packages requiring
> it. Did that happen on sysvinit, upstart, openrc, etc.? If systemd
> would be modular, I would consider to use it.
> 


I honestly don't see the problem here. If I were the developer of a
daemon, I would do my best to provide init scripts for all the major
known init systems my daemon is likely to be working with. Then, we
can argue about the current unfortunate situation, in which we dislike
the mainstream init system (systemd), but unfortunately we can't
ignore the fact that systemd exists, and is probably here to stay for
a while, since almost major linux distributions have adopted it as a
default

I don't see anything wrong in providing an alternate init script,
indeed, and I won't consider a package "infected" only because it
provides an init script for an init system that I don't use (or that I
dislike)

My2Cents

KatolaZ

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[ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ]
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[Dng] Devuan merged repository does not work today

[Anto]

Hello Everybody,

There is something wrong on Devuan merged repository today. Or is the 
update still in progress so I just need to wait longer?


Cheers,

Anto


root@hp8530w:~#
root@hp8530w:~# apt-get update
Hit http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates Release.gpg
Hit http://packages.devuan.org jessie Release.gpg
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy Release.gpg
Hit http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates Release
Hit http://packages.devuan.org jessie Release
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy-backports Release.gpg
Hit http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates/main amd64 Packages
Hit http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates/contrib amd64 Packages
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy Release
Hit http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates/non-free amd64 Packages
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy-backports Release
Hit http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates/contrib Translation-en
Hit http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates/main Translation-en
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy/main amd64 Packages
Hit http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates/non-free Translation-en
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy/non-free amd64 Packages
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy/contrib amd64 Packages
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy/contrib Translation-en
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy/main Translation-en
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy/non-free Translation-en
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy-backports/main amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy-backports/non-free amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy-backports/contrib amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy-backports/contrib Translation-en/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy-backports/main Translation-en/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.debian.org wheezy-backports/non-free Translation-en/DiffIndex
W: Conflicting distribution: http://packages.devuan.org jessie Release 
(expected jessie but got )
W: Failed to fetch 
http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie/Release  Unable to find 
expected entry 'main/source/Sources' in Release file (Wrong sources.list 
entry or malformed file)


E: Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old 
ones used instead.

root@hp8530w:~#

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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[Jaret Cantu]

On 05/19/2015 06:42 AM, Anto wrote:


Did that happen on sysvinit, upstart, openrc, etc.? If systemd would 
be modular, I would consider to use it.




Totally.


[jaret@ragnarok ~]$ dpkg -l '*upstart*'
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| 
Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend

|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name   Version  Architecture Description
+++-==---=
un  upstart  (no description available)
[jaret@ragnarok ~]$ dpkg -S '*upstart*'
ifupdown: /etc/network/if-up.d/upstart
openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart/sessions/ssh-agent.conf
startpar: /usr/share/man/man8/startpar-upstart-inject.8.gz
ifupdown: /etc/network/if-down.d/upstart
openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart
startpar: /lib/startpar/startpar-upstart-inject
vim-runtime: /usr/share/vim/vim74/syntax/upstart.vim
openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart/sessions
[jaret@ragnarok ~]$ vi /usr/share/upstart/sessions/ssh-agent.conf


Some text files never hurt anybody.


~jaret
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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[Irrwahn]

KatolaZ wrote on 19.05.2015 12:55:
> On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 12:42:43PM +0200, Anto wrote:
> [cut]
>> I have never used Slackware but that is similar problem as I have
>> experienced since last year with Debian wheezy. I think the main
>> problem is that, a lot of upstream packages and their maintainers in
>> most distros support systemd. So they intentionally add everything
>> that systemd needs into those packages, *just in case* the users
>> want to use systemd. That *just in case* thinking is what I really
>> hate as it is stupid. And that is because of the systemd developers
>> are just so dumb and idiot to be able to write modular program so
>> that there is no need to change anything on any packages requiring
>> it. Did that happen on sysvinit, upstart, openrc, etc.? If systemd
>> would be modular, I would consider to use it.
> 
> I honestly don't see the problem here. If I were the developer of a
> daemon, I would do my best to provide init scripts for all the major
> known init systems my daemon is likely to be working with. Then, we
> can argue about the current unfortunate situation, in which we dislike
> the mainstream init system (systemd), but unfortunately we can't
> ignore the fact that systemd exists, and is probably here to stay for
> a while, since almost major linux distributions have adopted it as a
> default
> 
> I don't see anything wrong in providing an alternate init script,
> indeed, and I won't consider a package "infected" only because it
> provides an init script for an init system that I don't use (or that I
> dislike)

[KatolaZ, I'm piggybacking your post - hope you don't mind.]

I think you have a point here that cannot be stressed enough. I would 
think of a package maintainer providing compatibility with and support 
for as many existing init systems as possible as being very considerate 
and responsible. Isn't that what the whole "freedom of choice" stance is 
all about in the first place? 

IMHO, having a few inactive scripts or configuration files lingering 
around that are there simply there to provide just-in-case support for 
an init system I do not happen to use (or even like, FWIW) is nothing 
worth worrying about. 

If, OTOH, in contrast an upstream maintainer were to introduce hard 
dependencies on any specific init system, disabling or crippling crucial 
core functionality of the software when used with any other init system, 
that would IMNSHO be a very inconsiderate approach. No matter if that 
would rule out systemd, or sysvinit, or any other alternative currently 
available. 

Just to be clear: Personally, I follow and use Devuan because I prefer 
to maintain my installations [as] free [as possible] of any systemd 
components, but calling "stupid" the fact that a maintainer takes a more 
or less neutral stance WRT to init systems is a bit over the top, I think. 

My one-and-a-half cents. ;-)

Cheers,
Urban
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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[Anto]

On 19/05/15 13:48, Jaret Cantu wrote:

On 05/19/2015 06:42 AM, Anto wrote:


Did that happen on sysvinit, upstart, openrc, etc.? If systemd would 
be modular, I would consider to use it.




Totally.


[jaret@ragnarok ~]$ dpkg -l '*upstart*'
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| 
Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend

|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name   Version  Architecture Description
+++-==---= 


un  upstart  (no description available)
[jaret@ragnarok ~]$ dpkg -S '*upstart*'
ifupdown: /etc/network/if-up.d/upstart
openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart/sessions/ssh-agent.conf
startpar: /usr/share/man/man8/startpar-upstart-inject.8.gz
ifupdown: /etc/network/if-down.d/upstart
openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart
startpar: /lib/startpar/startpar-upstart-inject
vim-runtime: /usr/share/vim/vim74/syntax/upstart.vim
openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart/sessions
[jaret@ragnarok ~]$ vi /usr/share/upstart/sessions/ssh-agent.conf


Some text files never hurt anybody.


~jaret


Hello Jaret,

Yes. I agree that some config files do not hurt or cause any problems 
and that also happens on other inits. The problem that I have 
experienced in cleaning up the packages is that, there are dependencies 
to systemd libraries or components in the packages. When I removed those 
dependencies without removing the config files, i.e. the unit, service 
and socket files, most of the time the build package fails. So I decided 
to always clean up everything including those config files. I have only 
been using sysvinit and procd (only on OpenWRT if that would be 
considered as init system). But I don't think that libraries and 
components dependencies happens on other inits.


Cheers,

Anto

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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[Anto]

On 19/05/15 14:00, Irrwahn wrote:

Just to be clear: Personally, I follow and use Devuan because I prefer
to maintain my installations [as] free [as possible] of any systemd
components, but calling "stupid" the fact that a maintainer takes a more
or less neutral stance WRT to init systems is a bit over the top, I think.


I think I have to stop as this topic has been discussed by a lot of 
people over the last few years. But one thing to note though that smart 
people who develop good software do not usually cause controversial 
disagreements, because they also offer the possibilities for the people 
who do not like the software, to be able to completely uninstall the 
software and any of its components. I had to downgrade back to Debian 
wheezy as I could not uninstall systemd to be able to use pure sysvinit. 
Yes, I want to use pure sysvinit instead of the quick and dirty 
workaround that they provide in the form of shims and helpers.

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Re: [Dng] Devuan merged repository does not work today

[Irrwahn]

Anto wrote on 19.05.2015 13:43:
> There is something wrong on Devuan merged repository today. Or is the 
> update still in progress so I just need to wait longer?

 

> W: Conflicting distribution: http://packages.devuan.org jessie Release 
> (expected jessie but got )
> W: Failed to fetch 
> http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie/Release  Unable to find 
> expected entry 'main/source/Sources' in Release file (Wrong sources.list 
> entry or malformed file)

 

Indeed, there seems to be something off. ATM ".../merged/dists/jessie" 
appears to be the same as "stable", effextively empty. Which begs a 
question: Since there is no stable Devuan release yet, but Debian Jessie 
has already gone stable, where would one expect Devuan Jessie to point to, 
anyway? Or, asking another way: Which Devuan release, if any, is currently 
supposed to merge with Debian Jessie? 

FWIW, I am using http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/testing/, which 
still merges with Debian testing, which works perfectly fine and gives 
just what I would expect.

I would be grateful if someone more knowledgeable could chime in and clear 
up the confusion. Well: *my* confusion, anyway. :)

Cheers,
Urban 
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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[Irrwahn]

Anto wrote on 19.05.2015 14:43:
> 
> On 19/05/15 14:00, Irrwahn wrote:
>> Just to be clear: Personally, I follow and use Devuan because I prefer
>> to maintain my installations [as] free [as possible] of any systemd
>> components, but calling "stupid" the fact that a maintainer takes a more
>> or less neutral stance WRT to init systems is a bit over the top, I think.
> 
> I think I have to stop as this topic has been discussed by a lot of 
> people over the last few years. But one thing to note though that smart 
> people who develop good software do not usually cause controversial 
> disagreements, because they also offer the possibilities for the people 
> who do not like the software, to be able to completely uninstall the 
> software and any of its components. I had to downgrade back to Debian 
> wheezy as I could not uninstall systemd to be able to use pure sysvinit. 
> Yes, I want to use pure sysvinit instead of the quick and dirty 
> workaround that they provide in the form of shims and helpers.

Well, I certainly do not want to perpetuate some old topics. I only jumped 
on the Devuan bandwagon quite recently and I certainly missed some important 
past discussions. So I apologize for any possible inconvenience I caused. 

Having said that, there is still one aspect I'd like to comment on (call it 
nitpicking, if you like, I am perfectly fine with that; being a C programmer 
myself has probably turned me into a pedant over the years. :-) Here goes: 
  I do not consider parts of software A, whose sole purpose is to provide 
compatibility with system component X, as being components of X, but still 
as belonging to A. More specifically: systemd init scripts that come with 
e.g. a daemon package are not part of systemd, but are still part of the 
package they came with. I think that is a subtle but important differentiation, 
in order to not do injustice to many venerable software authors and package 
maintainers, i.e. not lump them together with the annoying proponents of 
the lock-in strategy.

Cheers,
Urban
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[Dng] systemd has a long reach

[shraptor]

Bought a jolla phone to replace my iphone.

Got trouble with mobile internet.

I have filebrowser installed.

Looking in /var/log

No text logs but got a textfile saying use journalctl

Probably is a way to get a terminal but I didn't know how
and had no Internet to research.

systemd has got a long reach indeed

overcomplicates :-(
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Re: [Dng] systemd has a long reach

[Vlad]

Do you have actual package management tools like yum or apt-get?
You could install syslog and set systemd's journald binary garbage
producing crap to forward to it.
On May 19, 2015 5:11 PM, "shraptor"  wrote:

> Bought a jolla phone to replace my iphone.
>
> Got trouble with mobile internet.
>
> I have filebrowser installed.
>
> Looking in /var/log
>
> No text logs but got a textfile saying use journalctl
>
> Probably is a way to get a terminal but I didn't know how
> and had no Internet to research.
>
> systemd has got a long reach indeed
>
> overcomplicates :-(
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Re: [Dng] Devuan merged repository does not work today

[Franco Lanza]

Probably a temporary issue with one of the repos we merge,
i'm checking it right now and rebuilding it to make sure it works.

Please if you have any issue with the merged repo, send an email also to
next...@devuan.org so i can wake up faster than this time.

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 02:47:54PM +0200, Irrwahn wrote:
> Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 14:47:54 +0200
> From: Irrwahn 
> To: dng@lists.dyne.org
> Subject: Re: [Dng] Devuan merged repository does not work today
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101
>  Thunderbird/31.6.0
> 
> Anto wrote on 19.05.2015 13:43:
> > There is something wrong on Devuan merged repository today. Or is the 
> > update still in progress so I just need to wait longer?
> 
>  
> 
> > W: Conflicting distribution: http://packages.devuan.org jessie Release 
> > (expected jessie but got )
> > W: Failed to fetch 
> > http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie/Release  Unable to find 
> > expected entry 'main/source/Sources' in Release file (Wrong sources.list 
> > entry or malformed file)
> 
>  
> 
> Indeed, there seems to be something off. ATM ".../merged/dists/jessie" 
> appears to be the same as "stable", effextively empty. Which begs a 
> question: Since there is no stable Devuan release yet, but Debian Jessie 
> has already gone stable, where would one expect Devuan Jessie to point to, 
> anyway? Or, asking another way: Which Devuan release, if any, is currently 
> supposed to merge with Debian Jessie? 
> 
> FWIW, I am using http://packages.devuan.org/merged/dists/testing/, which 
> still merges with Debian testing, which works perfectly fine and gives 
> just what I would expect.
> 
> I would be grateful if someone more knowledgeable could chime in and clear 
> up the confusion. Well: *my* confusion, anyway. :)
> 
> Cheers,
> Urban 
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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[yvesjv]

 Hi Anto,

From your posts it appears that you are doing a lot of work cleaning
up these packages.

Apologies if I've missed a previous post as I think it would be
extremely helpful to all interested if you documented your invaluable
work on a wiki of sorts?

Perhaps more could assist with the cleanups :-)

Thanks

- Original Message -
From: "Anto" 
To:
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 19 May 2015 14:14:13 +0200
Subject:Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

 On 19/05/15 13:48, Jaret Cantu wrote:
 > On 05/19/2015 06:42 AM, Anto wrote:
 >>
 >> Did that happen on sysvinit, upstart, openrc, etc.? If systemd
would 
 >> be modular, I would consider to use it.
 >>
 >
 > Totally.
 >
 >
 > [jaret@ragnarok ~]$ dpkg -l '*upstart*'
 > Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
 > | 
 >
Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
 > |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
 > ||/ Name Version Architecture Description
 >
+++-==---=

 >
 > un upstart   (no description available)
 > [jaret@ragnarok ~]$ dpkg -S '*upstart*'
 > ifupdown: /etc/network/if-up.d/upstart
 > openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart/sessions/ssh-agent.conf
 > startpar: /usr/share/man/man8/startpar-upstart-inject.8.gz
 > ifupdown: /etc/network/if-down.d/upstart
 > openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart
 > startpar: /lib/startpar/startpar-upstart-inject
 > vim-runtime: /usr/share/vim/vim74/syntax/upstart.vim
 > openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart/sessions
 > [jaret@ragnarok ~]$ vi /usr/share/upstart/sessions/ssh-agent.conf
 >
 >
 > Some text files never hurt anybody.
 >
 >
 > ~jaret

 Hello Jaret,

 Yes. I agree that some config files do not hurt or cause any problems

 and that also happens on other inits. The problem that I have 
 experienced in cleaning up the packages is that, there are
dependencies 
 to systemd libraries or components in the packages. When I removed
those 
 dependencies without removing the config files, i.e. the unit,
service 
 and socket files, most of the time the build package fails. So I
decided 
 to always clean up everything including those config files. I have
only 
 been using sysvinit and procd (only on OpenWRT if that would be 
 considered as init system). But I don't think that libraries and 
 components dependencies happens on other inits.

 Cheers,

 Anto

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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[yvesjv]

 Hi Anto,

From your posts it appears that you are doing a lot of work cleaning
up these packages.

Apologies if I've missed a previous post as I think it would be
extremely helpful to all interested if you documented your invaluable
work on a wiki of sorts?

Perhaps more could assist with the cleanups :-)

Thanks

- Original Message -
From: "Anto" 
To:
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 19 May 2015 14:14:13 +0200
Subject:Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

 On 19/05/15 13:48, Jaret Cantu wrote:
 > On 05/19/2015 06:42 AM, Anto wrote:
 >>
 >> Did that happen on sysvinit, upstart, openrc, etc.? If systemd
would 
 >> be modular, I would consider to use it.
 >>
 >
 > Totally.
 >
 >
 > [jaret@ragnarok ~]$ dpkg -l '*upstart*'
 > Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
 > | 
 >
Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
 > |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
 > ||/ Name Version Architecture Description
 >
+++-==---=

 >
 > un upstart   (no description available)
 > [jaret@ragnarok ~]$ dpkg -S '*upstart*'
 > ifupdown: /etc/network/if-up.d/upstart
 > openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart/sessions/ssh-agent.conf
 > startpar: /usr/share/man/man8/startpar-upstart-inject.8.gz
 > ifupdown: /etc/network/if-down.d/upstart
 > openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart
 > startpar: /lib/startpar/startpar-upstart-inject
 > vim-runtime: /usr/share/vim/vim74/syntax/upstart.vim
 > openssh-client: /usr/share/upstart/sessions
 > [jaret@ragnarok ~]$ vi /usr/share/upstart/sessions/ssh-agent.conf
 >
 >
 > Some text files never hurt anybody.
 >
 >
 > ~jaret

 Hello Jaret,

 Yes. I agree that some config files do not hurt or cause any problems

 and that also happens on other inits. The problem that I have 
 experienced in cleaning up the packages is that, there are
dependencies 
 to systemd libraries or components in the packages. When I removed
those 
 dependencies without removing the config files, i.e. the unit,
service 
 and socket files, most of the time the build package fails. So I
decided 
 to always clean up everything including those config files. I have
only 
 been using sysvinit and procd (only on OpenWRT if that would be 
 considered as init system). But I don't think that libraries and 
 components dependencies happens on other inits.

 Cheers,

 Anto

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Re: [Dng] Devuan merged repository does not work today

[Anto]

On 19/05/15 18:19, Franco Lanza wrote:

Probably a temporary issue with one of the repos we merge,
i'm checking it right now and rebuilding it to make sure it works.

Please if you have any issue with the merged repo, send an email also to
next...@devuan.org so i can wake up faster than this time.



Thanks Franco,

I will put your email address on Cc next time.

Actually, I mostly would like to get the source of the packages that I 
am currently re-compiling and their dependent packages. I see that most 
of them are still from Debian jessie repository. I have some questions 
related to that if you don't mind.


What is the relationship between the packages in the merged repository 
and sources on gitlab? Are you only taking the sources on gitlab under 
"pkgs-base" group? If so, is there any clear process to include the 
sources on other groups into the "pkgs-base" group, e.g. eudev package, 
then into the merged repository?


FYI, it didn't take long for eudev package to stay on my test PC. I had 
it installed last night on my PC which I am using for writing this email 
now. I am not sure how to test it. I have tried to break it by rebooting 
my PC several times, plug/unplug usb stick, usb keyboard, usb headset, 
etc. But I just got 2 negligible issues that I reported on Jaret's 
repository on gitlab. I think it is quite stable, at least for anybody 
who want to try it (and get rid of systemd-udev). Please note that most 
of the packages on my PC are still from Debian wheezy repository. Only 
some packages required by eudev are from Devuan merged repository. So I 
should get more issues.


Back to my previous question, what do we need to do to be able to have 
the packages included into the merged repository? Please don't hesitate 
to ask me if you would need somebody to test them.


Cheers,

Anto

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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[Anto]

On 19/05/15 20:31, yve...@tpg.com.au wrote:


 Hi Anto,

From your posts it appears that you are doing a lot of work cleaning 
up these packages.


Apologies if I've missed a previous post as I think it would be 
extremely helpful to all interested if you documented your invaluable 
work on a wiki of sorts?


Perhaps more could assist with the cleanups :-)


Thanks



Yes, it has been quite a lot of work for me, especially due to the lack 
of my skills in the programming and Debian packaging as I am just an 
ordinary user. So what I have been doing is basically trial and error :)


Change something, re-compile, revert back when fails, again and again 
until the packages get successfully compiled. But that is not the end of 
it. The installation of the packages that have been successfully 
compiled are not always smooth. I broke my install several times. But I 
didn't spend time to troubleshoot, again due to the lack of my skills. 
After taking some logs and notes on something which I thought might be 
related to the changes that I made. I put back the disk image which I 
always take before any installation, then start all over again :)


So I think that is quite embarrassing, especially for Devuan (for me, I 
don't really care) if that kind of process would be documented some 
where on Devuan site :)


I have leant a lot by reading the commits on Devuan gitlab, especially 
the ones with the title related to "removing systemd" like 
https://git.devuan.org/packages-base/dbus/commit/2ebb243f3fa51790d93e7f21a11dca324df6b0fd, 
https://git.devuan.org/packages-base/network-manager/commit/665eb3cb32e9ca3f4294f783375e4118d9b78427 
and many others.


Cheers,

Anto

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Re: [Dng] systemd has a long reach

[Nuno Magalhães]

On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 3:11 PM, shraptor  wrote:
> systemd has got a long reach indeed

If it's being shipped out-of-the-box in (almost) all the main distros,
it's not long reach, it's statistics.
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Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?

[James Powell]

Hey guys, let me clarify the Slackware position on systemd.

Patrick has no intent on enforcing the usage of systemd upon Slackware and it's 
users unless it becomes an unavoidable issue. So far, this has not been the 
case in the slightest, and we doubt it will be. Slackware intends to keep the 
bsd-stylized sysvinit implementation.

Packages do have some systemd files for systemd systems, but because all 
packages in Slackware try to stay as vanilla as possible to "./configure && 
make && make install" methodology. You are free to remove them after-the-fact, 
or modify the Slackbuild scripts to remove them during the package construction 
stages.

There is a systemd experimental repackage of Slackware called Dlackware by a 
package developer named bartgymnast, but while the repack is specific to 
systemd, it is unsupported, unofficial, and still considered unstable in build.

I hope this clarifies this.

Sent from my Windows Phone

From: Anto
Sent: ‎5/‎19/‎2015 12:14 PM
To: yve...@tpg.com.au; 
dng@lists.dyne.org
Subject: Re: [Dng] Slackware systemd creepin in maybe?



On 19/05/15 20:31, yve...@tpg.com.au wrote:
>
>  Hi Anto,
>
> From your posts it appears that you are doing a lot of work cleaning
> up these packages.
>
> Apologies if I've missed a previous post as I think it would be
> extremely helpful to all interested if you documented your invaluable
> work on a wiki of sorts?
>
> Perhaps more could assist with the cleanups :-)
>
>
> Thanks
>

Yes, it has been quite a lot of work for me, especially due to the lack
of my skills in the programming and Debian packaging as I am just an
ordinary user. So what I have been doing is basically trial and error :)

Change something, re-compile, revert back when fails, again and again
until the packages get successfully compiled. But that is not the end of
it. The installation of the packages that have been successfully
compiled are not always smooth. I broke my install several times. But I
didn't spend time to troubleshoot, again due to the lack of my skills.
After taking some logs and notes on something which I thought might be
related to the changes that I made. I put back the disk image which I
always take before any installation, then start all over again :)

So I think that is quite embarrassing, especially for Devuan (for me, I
don't really care) if that kind of process would be documented some
where on Devuan site :)

I have leant a lot by reading the commits on Devuan gitlab, especially
the ones with the title related to "removing systemd" like
https://git.devuan.org/packages-base/dbus/commit/2ebb243f3fa51790d93e7f21a11dca324df6b0fd,
https://git.devuan.org/packages-base/network-manager/commit/665eb3cb32e9ca3f4294f783375e4118d9b78427
and many others.

Cheers,

Anto

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Re: [Dng] Is it useful to create a .so file to replace functions imported from libsystemd & Co.?

[Jaret Cantu]

On 05/18/2015 07:20 AM, Edward Bartolo wrote:

xfce4-power-manager, xfce4-session, upowerd don't look like using
libsystemd directly. I found many functions imported from udev but my
assumption is that these are already provided by gudev although I may
be wrong.

My XFCE4 installation in Devuan cannot shutdown or restart as these
options for some reason unknown to me are greyed out.


Hope someone finds this useful:


My XFCE desktop was able to shutdown/reboot just fine.  Then, I tried 
installing a systemd-free gnome3.  There was some upgrading, gdm 
certainly didn't work, and I had to fall back to my wdm/xfce desktop.


Turns out, next time I tried to reboot, I had the grayed-out options 
like you did.



After some digging in the xfce4-session code, I suspected that I was 
getting denied the right to shutdown from ConsoleKit. I was right:



dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit 
/org/freedesktop/ConsoleKit/Manager 
org.freedesktop.ConsoleKit.Manager.CanRestart



After more digging, what did the problem turn out to be?


 policykit-1.  Yup, during my upgrade, I snagged policykit-1 from 
Devuan.  It broke things.


I apt-get remove'd policykit-1, and lookit that, my Reboot/Shutdown 
buttons are back. I didn't even have to restart XFCE.



~jaret
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[Dng] I want to mount a Packages page, buildd and Wanna-build system

[APT Gatuno MX]

Hi!

I'm new to Devuan. I love Debian, but I hate systemd. Before the init 
jessie controversy, I was so obsessed with Debian's Build System. So I 
installed my own Debian Wanna Build System.


Yes, it was quite difficult, but I made it. The current setup is a 
reprepro Repo, a special trigger for the wanna build system. A build 
daemon was setup on another machine. Also, I setup a (un)official 
Packages Page.


I want to do the same for Devuan. I want to setup a wanna-build machine 
and some buildds for Devuan, even the Devuan Packages Page.


I don't know exactly how the DAK tools works, but wanna-build just needs 
a repo to pull packages. Also, setup some build daemons to automatically 
build daemons for amd64, i386, etc...


This brings me to the next question, does Devuan have own servers? 
Because I could rent a VPS for the wanna-build. I could donate a 1 year 
for the VPS.


Watch the Debian Packages page at packages.gatuno.mx 
(http://packages.gatuno.mx/wheezy/games/astro-barrier)
Watch the Buildd Information page at buildd.gatuno.mx 
(http://buildd.gatuno.mx/architecture.php?a=i386&suite=wheezy)


I really want to help, I even want to mount a official bugs page and 
packages qa page.

So, what do you think people?

--
Atte. Félix Arreola

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