Re: [Dng] Story: Debian Jessie laptop without systemd
Op 11-04-15 om 19:33 schreef Anto: > On 11/04/15 19:05, Paul van der Vlis wrote: >> Op 10-04-15 om 19:14 schreef Anto: >> >>> Hello Paul, >>> >>> I understand your pain as I have been there. >>> >>> I managed to have everything working with Debian jessie without any >>> packages containing "*systemd*". >> I don't think this is a good for systemd-shim. > > I don't want to use any packages which are built due to systemd like > systemd-shim, systemd-sysv, init-system-helpers, etc. I don't want to > see anything containing and related to systemd. Not on the output of > dmesg, not on any files or folders, basically not anywhere on my PC. systemd-shim is for when you *don't* want systemd. With regards, Paul van der Vlis. -- Paul van der Vlis Linux systeembeheer, Groningen http://www.vandervlis.nl/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] [dng] vdev status update
cheers to vdev! On Tue, 14 Apr 2015, Jude Nelson wrote: > >I'm using it as the device manager in my copy of the alpha Vagrant image, >and others have tested it locally (but not for booting, AFAIK).* I'm >working on getting it to boot the the qcow2 image, which boots from LVM. FYI and to sync a bit on progress, Nextime is completing a total rebuild of all packages for all target architectures via our CI. it took at least 3 days for that, phew. I'm spinning nightlies and testing them when I have time, they get packed with latest packages from our merged repo and the last one of today (150415) is a pretty good one, available on the temporary repository https://files.dyne.org/devuan in case you prefer virtualbox its easy to convert the qcow2 nightlies to that format using qemu-img and I confirm it works. I'm actually using Devuan already as devops base system in one of my software projects eheheh couldn't resist, its so nice to be able to continue to work undisturbed without having to cope with the device renaming b-shit and all that stuff that systemd is imposing... ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Story: Debian Jessie laptop without systemd
On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 01:22:28PM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: > > systemd-shim is for when you *don't* want systemd. Yes, but cause of you have things that depend on components of systemd. We don't want systemd nor anything depending on components from systemd, so, we don't want the shim too. systemd-shim is for who don't want to have systemd in pid 1 but accept other systemd components. We don't want systemd at all. -- Franco (nextime) Lanza Lonate Pozzolo (VA) - Italy SIP://c...@casa.nexlab.it web: http://www.nexlab.net NO TCPA: http://www.no1984.org you can download my public key at: http://danex.nexlab.it/nextime.asc || Key Servers Key ID = D6132D50 Key fingerprint = 66ED 5211 9D59 DA53 1DF7 4189 DFED F580 D613 2D50 --- echo 16i[q]sa[ln0=aln100%Pln100/snlbx]sbA0D212153574F444E49572045535520454D20454B414D204F54204847554F4E452059415020544F4E4E4143205345544147204C4C4942snlbxq | dc --- signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Story: Debian Jessie laptop without systemd
On 15/04/15 17:39, Franco Lanza wrote: systemd-shim is for who don't want to have systemd in pid 1 but accept other systemd components. We don't want systemd at all. +1. My /etc/apt/preferences.d/01systemd: Package: *systemd* Pin: origin "" Pin-Priority: -1 Yes, that also excludes libsystemd0 . ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Story: Debian Jessie laptop without systemd
thanks for the live images David On Wed, 15 Apr 2015, David Hare wrote: > On 15/04/15 17:39, Franco Lanza wrote: > > >systemd-shim is for who don't want to have systemd in pid 1 but > >accept other systemd components. We don't want systemd at all. > > +1. My /etc/apt/preferences.d/01systemd: > > Package: *systemd* Pin: origin "" Pin-Priority: -1 > > Yes, that also excludes libsystemd0 . sadly the pinning is never going to be enough without all the modified packages we have in https://git.devuan.org/groups/packages-base - and vdev, soon enough. we are all in the same ship for this. Thinking back, is still horrible and absolutely not attuned with the F/OSS spirit to be forced to do all this in order to opt out using a single software. And while we do it, being bullied by people because we want to opt out and we struggle with it. Something in Debian went terribly wrong and it's taking a hell of a lot of effort for some of us, so please be patient about delays, and thanks for all the donations. we will succeed at last ciao ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Fwd: [dng] vdev status update
On 15/04/15 05:20, Jude Nelson wrote: Hi Anto, Don't you want to know my setup? Yes, eventually :)  However, I don't want to waste your time either, at least until I am more confident that the vdev installation process works correctly.  Maybe there are some packages required by your vdev, but I don't have them installed on my PC. Or maybe the kernel 3.18.10 that I use require different treatment, so I need to use different kernel version to test your vdev. I think knowing that could help you troubleshoot the problem. I am really not sure the requirements to properly test your vdev at this stage. So perhaps having the same setup as your development environment could avoid any unnecessary issues. Well, there is one thing, if you're not too busy and it's not too inconvenient for you. Vdev logs its early boot messages to /run/vdev/vdevd.boot.log. If you could capture that file and send it to me, that would not only help me understand your setup, but also why vdev is misbehaving. Better yet, from the initramfs shell, if you could run "vdevd -v2 -f -c /etc/vdev/vdevd.conf --once /dev > /tmp/vdev-debugging.log" and send me the contents of /tmp/vdev-debugging.log, that will not only populate /dev (assuming vdevd works correctly on that invocation), but also generate a lot of extra debugging information in /tmp/vdev-debugging.log that would help me diagnose the problem. No worries if you're too busy or have better things to do, though :) Thanks again, Jude Hello Jude, Let's just say that I am doing this egoistically all for myself. :) So I will devote my time to test your vdev as much as I can. Unfortunately, I cannot get the debugging log that you are after. Using kernel 3.18.10 and 3.18.11, the keyboard was not being detected after it got to the (initramfs) prompt, so I could not type anything. I managed to execute the debugging command using kernel 3.2.0, but it didn't seem to write the log to the /tmp directory. I think that is due the disk was not detected. I could only capture the last messages using the camera of my old mobile phone, so the quality is not good. Please have a look on https://minifora.eu/public/devuan/vdev/vdev_debugging_15Apr15_3.jpg. I am not sure if this would be relevant. I am using file-rc instead of sysv-rc, so I didn't actually have any /etc/rc?.d directories. After the installation of the "example", /etc/rcS.d directory and S02vdev link under it got created. It could possibly be a problem later on, but I think I will worry about that (add it into /etc/runlevel.conf) after the boot process can reach it. Cheers, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[Dng] Purpose of systemd-shim
On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 06:39:29PM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: > On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 01:22:28PM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: > > > > systemd-shim is for when you *don't* want systemd. > > Yes, but cause of you have things that depend on components of systemd. > We don't want systemd nor anything depending on components from systemd, > so, we don't want the shim too. > > systemd-shim is for who don't want to have systemd in pid 1 but accept > other systemd components. We don't want systemd at all. Is this really true? Or is systemd to handle components that have nothing to do with systemd except that they were, unfortunately, developed on a system where they had to use systemd to access system services that were formerly, and are elsewhere, handled by other, more traditional means? -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Story: Debian Jessie laptop without systemd
On 15/04/15 18:39, Franco Lanza wrote: On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 01:22:28PM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: systemd-shim is for when you *don't* want systemd. Yes, but cause of you have things that depend on components of systemd. We don't want systemd nor anything depending on components from systemd, so, we don't want the shim too. systemd-shim is for who don't want to have systemd in pid 1 but accept other systemd components. We don't want systemd at all. That is exactly what I meant. Thanks Franco for explaining that differently. Cheers, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Purpose of systemd-shim
On 15/04/15 21:01, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 06:39:29PM +0200, Franco Lanza wrote: On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 01:22:28PM +0200, Paul van der Vlis wrote: systemd-shim is for when you *don't* want systemd. Yes, but cause of you have things that depend on components of systemd. We don't want systemd nor anything depending on components from systemd, so, we don't want the shim too. systemd-shim is for who don't want to have systemd in pid 1 but accept other systemd components. We don't want systemd at all. Is this really true? Or is systemd to handle components that have nothing to do with systemd except that they were, unfortunately, developed on a system where they had to use systemd to access system services that were formerly, and are elsewhere, handled by other, more traditional means? -- hendrik Hello Hendrik, I am not a coder but I think that is entirely true. From Debian jessie systemd-shim: [quote] Description-en: shim for systemd This package emulates the systemd function that are required to run the systemd helpers without using the init service [end quote] But that is not the main reason I don't want to use anything related or built due to systemd. Particularly for systemd-shim, the posting on LKML https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/10/7/254 has been discussed all over the internet. I am not sure if that would be true as systemd-shim is still in Debian sid, but it confirms that it is very easy to force the lock-in to systemd for users who don't want to use systemd as init but still want to use other systemd components. Cheers, Anto ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
