Re: [Dng] vdev status updates
> How would that "watching" work? vdevd-user would have an inotify(2)-based back-end (hopefully via libkqueue, so it would be portable). The back-end would set up inotify watches on /dev and its descendant directories, and translate creat(2) and unlink(2) events from inotify into a vdev-specific device event with the relevant information (e.g. by querying the device metadata that the system's vdevd puts into /dev/vdev/...). -Jude On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 1:30 AM, Joerg Reisenweber wrote: > On Tue 17 March 2015 01:20:43 Jude Nelson wrote: > > What I'm considering doing is creating vdevd-user, a build of > > vdevd with a backend for watching the contents of /dev, instead of > > listening to the kernel for device events. > > How would that "watching" work? > > /jOERG > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] vdev status updates
Am Dienstag, 17. März 2015, 01:20:43 schrieb Jude Nelson: > Hey everyone, Hi Jude! > I have the latest news on vdev over the past two weeks. I'm not sure if > the news from last week made it to the mailing list; apologies if the > latter half of this email is redundant. > > [Week of March 15] > > This week, the Linux port of vdev is now accesses /sys in a manner that > is fully consistent with the rules set forth here: > https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysfs-rules.txt. This closes > issue #14. Wow, thank you! You put a lot of work into this. I am really considering using Devuan with vdev on my server VM. I like the approach to let one tool do one thing and do it well and even more flexible than the current main stream implementations. Thanks, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Dng Digest, Vol 6, Issue 60
On 17/03/2015 09:30, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote: Insofar as what needs doing, there's a pre-alpha ISO floating around (Valentine pre-alpha), and the Vagrant image could always use more testing and bug reports. There's also a list of infrastructure to-dos here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/todo/issues. Hi Jude, Where do I send bug reports/questions? Best regards, David H ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greetings & how to help
On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 18:30:57 -0400 Jude Nelson wrote: > * There's an i386 Vagrant image released for pre-alpha testing (see > https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/wikis/try-devuan-on-vagrant). I tried the Vagrant on my Wheezy box the day the Vagrant image came out, and it errored out with some VirtualBox error. I forgot the error, and don't have enough time to whip it into working shape. Are there any instructions for using Vagrant with Qemu instead of Virtualbox? SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greetings & how to help
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 18:30:57 -0400 > Jude Nelson wrote: > > > > * There's an i386 Vagrant image released for pre-alpha testing (see > > https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-project/wikis/try-devuan-on-vagrant > ). > > I tried the Vagrant on my Wheezy box the day the Vagrant image came out, > and it errored out with some VirtualBox error. I forgot the error, and > don't have enough time to whip it into working shape. Are there any > instructions for using Vagrant with Qemu instead of Virtualbox? > > SteveT > > Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ > Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > Yes, qemu would be useful for me as well. Vagrant wanted more than my 2 GiB memory. Richard. -- PCLinuxOS, MS-14, Trios, Devuan ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] vdev status updates
On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 04:48:46 -0400 Jude Nelson wrote: > > How would that "watching" work? > > vdevd-user would have an inotify(2)-based back-end (hopefully via > libkqueue, so it would be portable). The back-end would set up > inotify watches on /dev and its descendant directories, and translate > creat(2) and unlink(2) events from inotify into a vdev-specific > device event with the relevant information (e.g. by querying the > device metadata that the system's vdevd puts into /dev/vdev/...). > > -Jude Several months ago I did a proof of concept shellscript using inotifywait, which detected USB thumb drive insertion and removal. It worked just fine, and if I'd wanted to spend more than 30 minutes, a combination of tweaking sudoers and writing a few shellscripts could have given instant mounting of thumb drives (and probably DVDs). I understand that FreeBSD has kqueue and kevent, which apparently do some of the same things. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kqueue , it's available in all the major BSDs. So your idea sounds doable, always assuming you can make a high level interface that calls either inotify or kqueue. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?
Hello Everybody, I know that Devuan is not even at the alpha release yet. So I don't have any intention at all here, to ask the nasty question about the release date. Everybody involved in Devuan development are already really busy, so it is really evil to ask that. Some questions came up in my mind on the first day I found Devuan. A few minutes ago I have just tried to switch to Devuan repository. And those questions came up again after I saw especially libsystemd0 and init-system-helpers on the output below. That didn't actually surprise me as I am quite sure that Devuan development is still in progress. So this will happen until the initial release of Devuan. But I think I still have to ask the questions. Will Devuan be really free from systemd and its components? Or will there be trade-off being applied so that some of systemd components will be used in Devuan? Kind regards, Anto root@v01:/# apt-get update Hit http://apt.devuan.org jessie InRelease Hit http://apt.devuan.org jessie/main i386 Packages Ign http://apt.devuan.org jessie/main Translation-en_US Ign http://apt.devuan.org jessie/main Translation-en Reading package lists... Done root@v01:/# root@v01:/# apt-get -u dist-upgrade Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done Calculating upgrade... The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: libgd2-xpm libice6 libmagickcore5 libmagickwand5 libsm6 libxt6 x11-common Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. Done The following NEW packages will be installed: init-system-helpers libapparmor1 libestr0 libfftw3-double3 libjson-c2 liblogging-stdlog0 liblognorm1 libmagickcore-6.q16-2 libmagickwand-6.q16-2 libsystemd0 libudev1 openssh-sftp-server php5-json startpar The following packages will be upgraded: anacron at bsdutils consolekit cron dbus dmsetup dpkg dpkg-dev initscripts libaccountsservice0 libck-connector0 libdbus-glib-1-2 libdevmapper1.02.1 libdpkg-perl libgnutls-deb0-28 libgnutls-openssl27 libpam-ck-connector libpolkit-gobject-1-0 logrotate openssh-client openssh-server php5-cli php5-common php5-fpm php5-gd php5-imagick php5-sqlite rsyslog ssh sysv-rc sysvinit sysvinit-utils udev uuid-runtime 35 upgraded, 14 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Need to get 19.6 MB of archives. After this operation, 21.3 MB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n Abort. root@v01:/# ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[Dng] release date
On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 09:00:49PM +0100, Anto wrote: > Hello Everybody, > > I know that Devuan is not even at the alpha release yet. So I don't > have any intention at all here, to ask the nasty question about the > release date. Everybody involved in Devuan development are already > really busy, so it is really evil to ask that. I don't know what the official answer is, but the best answer from my point of view as a user would be "It'll be released when it's ready." -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] release date
On 17/03/15 22:24, Hendrik Boom wrote: On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 09:00:49PM +0100, Anto wrote: Hello Everybody, I know that Devuan is not even at the alpha release yet. So I don't have any intention at all here, to ask the nasty question about the release date. Everybody involved in Devuan development are already really busy, so it is really evil to ask that. I don't know what the official answer is, but the best answer from my point of view as a user would be "It'll be released when it's ready." -- hendrik Thanks Hendrik. I understand that. So I didn't ask about the release date of Devuan. I asked the questions whether Devuan will be really free from systemd and its components? Or will there be trade-off being applied so that some of systemd components will be used in Devuan? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greetings & how to help
On 03/17/2015 09:56 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > I tried the Vagrant on my Wheezy box the day the Vagrant image came out, > and it errored out with some VirtualBox error. I forgot the error, and > don't have enough time to whip it into working shape. Are there any > instructions for using Vagrant with Qemu instead of Virtualbox? > If you managed to download the image... qemu-img convert -f vmdk -O raw box-disk1.vmdk devuan_alpha1.img fsr ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Dng Digest, Vol 6, Issue 60
Hi David, Do you have an account on the Devuan GitLab (git.devuan.org)? If so, feel free to open issues against the relevant project. If not, I guess you could post them here, but maybe tag the subject with [BUG] and the relevant package? (I ask this as a question in case someone wants to correct me with a better policy). -Jude On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:39 AM, David Harrison wrote: > On 17/03/2015 09:30, dng-requ...@lists.dyne.org wrote: > >> >> Insofar as what needs doing, there's a pre-alpha ISO floating around >> (Valentine pre-alpha), and the Vagrant image could always use more testing >> and bug reports. There's also a list of infrastructure to-dos here: >> https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure/todo/issues. >> > > Hi Jude, > > Where do I send bug reports/questions? > > Best regards, > > David H > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Devuan commitments - will trade-off be applied?
Hi Anto, I think the plan is to make the installation of all systemd components optional. The packages in git.devuan.org that are cloned from Debian's sources have build flags set automatically to compile out systemd dependencies, for example. If you're wondering what's pulling in libsystemd0 in your above example, you could run "aptitude why libsystemd0" to find out what's pulling it in. If it's a package in Devuan pulling it in, please let us know! -Jude On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 4:00 PM, Anto wrote: > Hello Everybody, > > I know that Devuan is not even at the alpha release yet. So I don't have > any intention at all here, to ask the nasty question about the release > date. Everybody involved in Devuan development are already really busy, so > it is really evil to ask that. > > Some questions came up in my mind on the first day I found Devuan. A few > minutes ago I have just tried to switch to Devuan repository. And those > questions came up again after I saw especially libsystemd0 and > init-system-helpers on the output below. That didn't actually surprise me > as I am quite sure that Devuan development is still in progress. So this > will happen until the initial release of Devuan. But I think I still have > to ask the questions. > > Will Devuan be really free from systemd and its components? Or will there > be trade-off being applied so that some of systemd components will be used > in Devuan? > > Kind regards, > > Anto > > root@v01:/# apt-get update > Hit http://apt.devuan.org jessie InRelease > Hit http://apt.devuan.org jessie/main i386 Packages > Ign http://apt.devuan.org jessie/main Translation-en_US > Ign http://apt.devuan.org jessie/main Translation-en > Reading package lists... Done > root@v01:/# > root@v01:/# apt-get -u dist-upgrade > Reading package lists... Done > Building dependency tree > Reading state information... Done > Calculating upgrade... The following packages were automatically installed > and are no longer required: > libgd2-xpm libice6 libmagickcore5 libmagickwand5 libsm6 libxt6 x11-common > Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them. > Done > The following NEW packages will be installed: > init-system-helpers libapparmor1 libestr0 libfftw3-double3 libjson-c2 > liblogging-stdlog0 liblognorm1 libmagickcore-6.q16-2 libmagickwand-6.q16-2 > libsystemd0 libudev1 openssh-sftp-server > php5-json startpar > The following packages will be upgraded: > anacron at bsdutils consolekit cron dbus dmsetup dpkg dpkg-dev > initscripts libaccountsservice0 libck-connector0 libdbus-glib-1-2 > libdevmapper1.02.1 libdpkg-perl libgnutls-deb0-28 > libgnutls-openssl27 libpam-ck-connector libpolkit-gobject-1-0 logrotate > openssh-client openssh-server php5-cli php5-common php5-fpm php5-gd > php5-imagick php5-sqlite rsyslog ssh sysv-rc > sysvinit sysvinit-utils udev uuid-runtime > 35 upgraded, 14 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. > Need to get 19.6 MB of archives. > After this operation, 21.3 MB of additional disk space will be used. > Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n > Abort. > root@v01:/# > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[Dng] Systemd: it depends -- was Re: release date
On 03/17/15 18:57, Anto wrote: > > I asked the questions whether Devuan will be really free from systemd > and its components? Or will there be trade-off being applied so that > some of systemd components will be used in Devuan? > *** I'm merely repeating what's been said before, and I'm not ointed by the VUA, so don't take my word for theirs... The goal of Devuan is to produce a distro in the continuity with Debian Wheezy, based on Jessie, but without any of the systemd cruft being mandatory. The first step is to enable Jessie to run without systemd. Devuan provides free init, letting the user choose which init system they want to use. Obviously, because the primary job is to remove the mandatory dependency on systemd, if you choose to run systemd, you'd better stick with Debian. Now if you want to run standard GNU utilities to do what systemd wants to replace beyond init, you're in the right place. There are a couple of systemd components whose dependency is harder to remove, such as logind and udevd, especially for the GNOME desktop that highly integrates with systemd. Work is currently being done to replace them or at least provide a systemd shim that would allow developers to keep working on a compatible layer without the need for any systemd components. Once Jessie is done, running without systemd, then the systemd-compatibility will mostly depend on the evolution of Debian, because I can't imagine the Devuan developers spending much of their time accommodating systemd developers' poor choices. But I also expect that by that time (ASCII or ASCII+1), systemd will have become irrelevant to most of us. == hk -- _ _ We are free to share code and we code to share freedom (_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] vdev status updates
> Wow, thank you! You put a lot of work into this. You're welcome! > I am really considering using Devuan with vdev on my server VM. > > I like the approach to let one tool do one thing and do it well and even > more flexible than the current main stream implementations. I'm glad to hear it! If you find any problems or have any suggestions on how the design or implementation could be improved, feel free to open issues against it on either the github page ( https://github.com/jcnelson/vdev) or the Devuan project page ( https://git.devuan.org/pkgs-utopia-substitution/vdev). You may be interested to know that you can test vdev side-by-side with udev (or mdev, or static dev, or whatever's managing /dev) by having it generate device files in whatever directory suits you. The only caveat is that it must run as root, since listening to the kernel for device events is a privileged operation (I just opened issue #18 on the github page to see about running specific actions as an unprivileged user, if this is a concern). -Jude On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 5:30 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: > Am Dienstag, 17. März 2015, 01:20:43 schrieb Jude Nelson: > > Hey everyone, > > Hi Jude! > > > I have the latest news on vdev over the past two weeks. I'm not sure if > > the news from last week made it to the mailing list; apologies if the > > latter half of this email is redundant. > > > > [Week of March 15] > > > > This week, the Linux port of vdev is now accesses /sys in a manner that > > is fully consistent with the rules set forth here: > > https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/sysfs-rules.txt. This closes > > issue #14. > > Wow, thank you! You put a lot of work into this. > > I am really considering using Devuan with vdev on my server VM. > > I like the approach to let one tool do one thing and do it well and even > more flexible than the current main stream implementations. > > Thanks, > -- > Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de > GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] vdev status updates
Hi Steve, > Several months ago I did a proof of concept shellscript using > inotifywait, which detected USB thumb drive insertion and removal. It > worked just fine, and if I'd wanted to spend more than 30 minutes, a > combination of tweaking sudoers and writing a few shellscripts could > have given instant mounting of thumb drives (and probably DVDs). That's basically what vdevd-user would do. The only difference between using inotifywait is that the user would be able to transfer his/her knowledge of setting up vdevd to setting up vdevd-user (since they use the same config file format). Of course, the choice is entirely the user's--vdevd-user would be only one of many approaches to running unprivileged code in response to a device appearing or disappearing :) > I understand that FreeBSD has kqueue and kevent, which apparently do > some of the same things. According to > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kqueue , it's available in all the major > BSDs. So your idea sounds doable, always assuming you can make a high > level interface that calls either inotify or kqueue. It's already done by libkqueue: https://github.com/mheily/libkqueue. vdevd-user would just link against libkqueue. -Jude On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 10:16 AM, Steve Litt wrote: > On Tue, 17 Mar 2015 04:48:46 -0400 > Jude Nelson wrote: > > > > How would that "watching" work? > > > > vdevd-user would have an inotify(2)-based back-end (hopefully via > > libkqueue, so it would be portable). The back-end would set up > > inotify watches on /dev and its descendant directories, and translate > > creat(2) and unlink(2) events from inotify into a vdev-specific > > device event with the relevant information (e.g. by querying the > > device metadata that the system's vdevd puts into /dev/vdev/...). > > > > -Jude > > Several months ago I did a proof of concept shellscript using > inotifywait, which detected USB thumb drive insertion and removal. It > worked just fine, and if I'd wanted to spend more than 30 minutes, a > combination of tweaking sudoers and writing a few shellscripts could > have given instant mounting of thumb drives (and probably DVDs). > > I understand that FreeBSD has kqueue and kevent, which apparently do > some of the same things. According to > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kqueue , it's available in all the major > BSDs. So your idea sounds doable, always assuming you can make a high > level interface that calls either inotify or kqueue. > > > SteveT > > Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ > Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng > ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
