Re: [Dng] Finding systemd
On 10/03/15 01:21, Go Linux wrote: On Mon, 3/9/15, etech3 wrote: Subject: [Dng] Finding systemd To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Monday, March 9, 2015, 6:45 PM Hi everybody In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see if I could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now this is a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory. After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is what I got: /etc/systemd /etc/systemd/system /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket /lib/systemd /lib/systemd/system /lib/systemd/system/acpid.service /lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket /lib/systemd/system/sudo.service /usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi Next I will post the package list with version numbers. I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie. Stan > etech3 I don't have any systemd on my squeeze. How did you manage that? Backports? golinux Yes, me too. I am quite sure that I didn't get anything related to systemd on Debian squeeze, not even /etc/systemd and /lib/systemd folders. Perhaps they were left over from your previous install. Did you do clean install? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Finding systemd
Le 10/03/2015 08:43, Anto a écrit : On 10/03/15 01:21, Go Linux wrote: On Mon, 3/9/15, etech3 wrote: Subject: [Dng] Finding systemd To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Monday, March 9, 2015, 6:45 PM Hi everybody In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see if I could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now this is a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory. After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is what I got: /etc/systemd /etc/systemd/system /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket /lib/systemd /lib/systemd/system /lib/systemd/system/acpid.service /lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket /lib/systemd/system/sudo.service /usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi Next I will post the package list with version numbers. I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie. Stan > etech3 I don't have any systemd on my squeeze. How did you manage that? Backports? golinux Yes, me too. I am quite sure that I didn't get anything related to systemd on Debian squeeze, not even /etc/systemd and /lib/systemd folders. Perhaps they were left over from your previous install. Did you do clean install? On my Wheezy (frequently updated, but without backports) I have the following packages, which do not include the daemon: libsystemd-daemon0 required by pulse-audio only libsystemd-login0required by many important packages (consolekit, dbus, etc) There are a lot of files in /etc/systemd and /lib/systemd. By their names, many of these are clearly meant to be used by the systemd daemon, but they are not part of the two packages above. eg: /lib/systemd/system/wpa_supplicant.service is installed by package wpasupplicant. In fact every single daemon now ships with its systemd service file, much like they were previously providing the startup scripts for sysv-init and their soft links. The sole presence of these files is irritating, but they are not used. I think the only alternative for Debian is to provide packages like wpasupplicant-systemd and wpasupplicant-sysv, each installing only one file. Didier ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Finding systemd
Am Montag, 9. März 2015, 19:45:05 schrieb etech3: > Hi everybody > > In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see if I > could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by > installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard > install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now this > is a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory. > > After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is what I > got: > > /etc/systemd > /etc/systemd/system > /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants > /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket > /lib/systemd > /lib/systemd/system > /lib/systemd/system/acpid.service > /lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket > /lib/systemd/system/sudo.service > /usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi > /usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi > /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi > > Next I will post the package list with version numbers. > > I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie. I highly doubt that webmin related files are part of a base or standard install of Squeeze. To my knowledge webmin packages have been removed from the archive quite some time ago and merkaba:~> rmadison webmin debian: new: merkaba:~> apt-file search /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi seems to agree with me. Other than that these are just some systemd related configuration files of acpi and sudo packages. I am surprised these would be in Squeeze related packages already. Did you install any newer, backport version of these? Ciao, -- Martin 'Helios' Steigerwald - http://www.Lichtvoll.de GPG: 03B0 0D6C 0040 0710 4AFA B82F 991B EAAC A599 84C7 ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Finding systemd
The 6.0.7 net install had the firmware extras on it. I think that is where is came from. The 6.0.6 business card net install CD did not have systemd at all. I'm going going to run the installs again to check. I'll report back. On 03/10/2015 03:43 AM, Anto wrote: On 10/03/15 01:21, Go Linux wrote: On Mon, 3/9/15, etech3 wrote: Subject: [Dng] Finding systemd To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Monday, March 9, 2015, 6:45 PM Hi everybody In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see if I could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now this is a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory. After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is what I got: /etc/systemd /etc/systemd/system /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket /lib/systemd /lib/systemd/system /lib/systemd/system/acpid.service /lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket /lib/systemd/system/sudo.service /usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi Next I will post the package list with version numbers. I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie. Stan > etech3 I don't have any systemd on my squeeze. How did you manage that? Backports? golinux Yes, me too. I am quite sure that I didn't get anything related to systemd on Debian squeeze, not even /etc/systemd and /lib/systemd folders. Perhaps they were left over from your previous install. Did you do clean install? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Finding systemd
Anto These were fresh installs. On 03/10/2015 03:43 AM, Anto wrote: On 10/03/15 01:21, Go Linux wrote: On Mon, 3/9/15, etech3 wrote: Subject: [Dng] Finding systemd To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Monday, March 9, 2015, 6:45 PM Hi everybody In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see if I could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now this is a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory. After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is what I got: /etc/systemd /etc/systemd/system /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket /lib/systemd /lib/systemd/system /lib/systemd/system/acpid.service /lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket /lib/systemd/system/sudo.service /usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi Next I will post the package list with version numbers. I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie. Stan > etech3 I don't have any systemd on my squeeze. How did you manage that? Backports? golinux Yes, me too. I am quite sure that I didn't get anything related to systemd on Debian squeeze, not even /etc/systemd and /lib/systemd folders. Perhaps they were left over from your previous install. Did you do clean install? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Finding systemd
I am going to reinstall to test to make sure. On 03/10/2015 06:56 AM, Martin Steigerwald wrote: Am Montag, 9. März 2015, 19:45:05 schrieb etech3: Hi everybody In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see if I could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now this is a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory. After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is what I got: /etc/systemd /etc/systemd/system /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket /lib/systemd /lib/systemd/system /lib/systemd/system/acpid.service /lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket /lib/systemd/system/sudo.service /usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi Next I will post the package list with version numbers. I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie. I highly doubt that webmin related files are part of a base or standard install of Squeeze. To my knowledge webmin packages have been removed from the archive quite some time ago and merkaba:~> rmadison webmin debian: new: merkaba:~> apt-file search /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi seems to agree with me. Other than that these are just some systemd related configuration files of acpi and sudo packages. I am surprised these would be in Squeeze related packages already. Did you install any newer, backport version of these? Ciao, ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Finding systemd
Hello everybody, as I wrote before in another thread, I had found systemd in my laptop's Debian testing (periodically updated). But PID 1 is still init. I was confused very much. Also, in some cases it's impossible to have fresh install. For servers, for example. Also in my workstation I use Debian for a long time, I wouldn't like to re-install, install all packages and configure them. On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 08:43:09 +0100 Anto wrote: > On 10/03/15 01:21, Go Linux wrote: > > On Mon, 3/9/15, etech3 wrote: > > > > Subject: [Dng] Finding systemd > > To: dng@lists.dyne.org > > Date: Monday, March 9, 2015, 6:45 PM > > > >> Hi everybody > >> > >> In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to > >> see if I could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did > >> was start by installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the > >> base standard install. The only package I added was the > >> apt-show-versions. Now this is a i386 install on a old Aopen > >> server board with 2 gigs of memory. > >> > >> After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is > >> what I got: > >> > >> /etc/systemd > >> /etc/systemd/system > >> /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants > >> /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket > >> /lib/systemd > >> /lib/systemd/system > >> /lib/systemd/system/acpid.service > >> /lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket > >> /lib/systemd/system/sudo.service > >> /usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi > >> /usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi > >> /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi > >> Next I will post the package list with version numbers. > >> > >> I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie. > >> > >> Stan > etech3 > > > > > > I don't have any systemd on my squeeze. How did you manage that? > > Backports? > > > > golinux > > Yes, me too. I am quite sure that I didn't get anything related to > systemd on Debian squeeze, not even /etc/systemd and /lib/systemd > folders. Perhaps they were left over from your previous install. Did > you do clean install? > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng -- Best Regards, Eugene Bolshakoff signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[Dng] Devuan foundational philosophy: was greets
On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 18:19:56 + KatolaZ wrote: > Devuan is the final name (at the moment! :P) and is really > happening. It is a fork of Debian with the clear intention of creating > and maintaining a Debian in which init freedom is guaranteed (which > initially will boil down to eradicate systemd and all its companions > from Debian). Hi KatolaZ, Naturally, my crystal ball is no better than anybody else's, but my prediction is that as time goes on, Devuan's intention will become a more generalized superset of init freedom. I'm predicting that in the long run, it will become DIY freedom, with emphasis on small, standard parts with known, thin interfaces. Of course, systemd was the most glaring and urgent threat to DIY freedom, so we need to purge that silliness immediately, but I think we'll eventually go farther. As a matter of fact, my understanding is our default DE will be Xfce, not Gnome: A fact that will doubtlessly cause hand-wringing amongst those believing in the tightly-glued, unified system. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greets
On Mon, 09 Mar 2015 22:18:41 -0300 hellekin wrote: > On 03/09/15 19:26, Christopher Barry wrote: > > > > these democratic ideas. Unfortunately, just like in real government, > > special interests can stack the deck (e.g. dominate committees) and > > push things that are self serving and maybe not in the best > > interests of the greater community. > > > *** Welcome Christopher! > > I agree with you that Devuan governance needs to differ from Debian's, > and that is must consider the general interest as well as respect the > particular. LOL, I think it would be mighty difficult to duplicate Debian's governance. I think doing so would require years of smugly satisfied ossification. Judging from this mailing list, as well as #devuan and #debianfork, I'd say we're as far from Debian's governance as conceivable. > > Given the amount of speculation around what Devuan is and how it will > evolve, I'd rather give it a chance to actually get there before we > can start a discussion from a solid ground, rather than get to speak > about the shadow of aliens, and how your vision is necessarily > inferior to mine, because mine was raised by true Trolls that turn > into stone when they meditate, etc. Pre-cisely. We don't know our best governance yet. Also, if we don't deliver a distro, all the rest is a moot point. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greets
On 03/10/15 11:57, Steve Litt wrote: > > LOL > *** Can you expand the acronym? I'm not sure I find anything funny here. == hk -- _ _ We are free to share code and we code to share freedom (_X_)yne Foundation, Free Culture Foundry * https://www.dyne.org/donate/ ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Devuan foundational philosophy: was greets
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:51:52AM -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > On Mon, 9 Mar 2015 18:19:56 + > KatolaZ wrote: > > > > Devuan is the final name (at the moment! :P) and is really > > happening. It is a fork of Debian with the clear intention of creating > > and maintaining a Debian in which init freedom is guaranteed (which > > initially will boil down to eradicate systemd and all its companions > > from Debian). > > Hi KatolaZ, > > Naturally, my crystal ball is no better than anybody else's, but my > prediction is that as time goes on, Devuan's intention will become a > more generalized superset of init freedom. I'm predicting that in the > long run, it will become DIY freedom, with emphasis on small, standard > parts with known, thin interfaces. > Yes, but let's wait for the first stable release, and then we can start talking about what for the moment are just "shadows of aliens", as greatly summarised by hellekin ;) Best KatolaZ -- [ Enzo Nicosia aka KatolaZ --- GLUG Catania -- Freaknet Medialab ] [ me [at] katolaz.homeunix.net -- http://katolaz.homeunix.net -- ] [ GNU/Linux User:#325780/ICQ UIN: #258332181/GPG key ID 0B5F062F ] [ Fingerprint: 8E59 D6AA 445E FDB4 A153 3D5A 5F20 B3AE 0B5F 062F ] ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Devuan foundational philosophy: was greets
-Original Message- From: Steve Litt [mailto:sl...@troubleshooters.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2015 9:52 AM To: dng@lists.dyne.org Subject: [Dng] Devuan foundational philosophy: was greets Hi KatolaZ, Naturally, my crystal ball is no better than anybody else's, but my prediction is that as time goes on, Devuan's intention will become a more generalized superset of init freedom. I'm predicting that in the long run, it will become DIY freedom, with emphasis on small, standard parts with known, thin interfaces. Of course, systemd was the most glaring and urgent threat to DIY freedom, so we need to purge that silliness immediately, but I think we'll eventually go farther. As a matter of fact, my understanding is our default DE will be Xfce, not Gnome: A fact that will doubtlessly cause hand-wringing amongst those believing in the tightly-glued, unified system. SteveT Hey Steve! In the same vein as your message, I would like to offer a more specific suggestion. One of the biggest problems with Linux in general is that it is like hitting target. That is why LTS versions, and Linus' stance on kernel compatibility are so important. They provide a more stable ABI/API for development and servers. If Devuan could commit itself to enforcing a specific version of APIs with each release, I could see Devuan being hailed for stability and standardization. Granted, for the most part, that is what LTS versions already are doing anyway, but frankly Linux documentation sucks. If it was well documented and advertised as a feature, that Devuan promised to support said API's for this release, I think that would go a good distance to building confidence in Devuan, especially for servers and developers. t.j. ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] Finding systemd
I installed squeeze about a week ago, from the xfce/lxde CD-1. Took the default desktop install and added a bunch of stuff. This is what I get: # locate systemd /usr/include/jack/systemdeps.h Which is part of jackd, not systemd. And this: # apt-cache policy systemd N: Unable to locate package systemd main, contrib and non-free enabled. fsr On 03/10/2015 08:01 AM, etech3 wrote: > Anto These were fresh installs. > > On 03/10/2015 03:43 AM, Anto wrote: >> On 10/03/15 01:21, Go Linux wrote: >>> On Mon, 3/9/15, etech3 wrote: >>> >>> Subject: [Dng] Finding systemd >>> To: dng@lists.dyne.org >>> Date: Monday, March 9, 2015, 6:45 PM Hi everybody In a follow up to preparing for Devuan, I started going back to see if I could find systemd. Yes I know, I know. But what I did was start by installing just a base install of Squeeze. Just the base standard install. The only package I added was the apt-show-versions. Now this is a i386 install on a old Aopen server board with 2 gigs of memory. After the base install I ran: locate systemd*. On Squeeze this is what I got: /etc/systemd /etc/systemd/system /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants /etc/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/acpid.socket /lib/systemd /lib/systemd/system /lib/systemd/system/acpid.service /lib/systemd/system/acpid.socket /lib/systemd/system/sudo.service /usr/share/webmin/init/edit_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/mass_systemd.cgi /usr/share/webmin/init/save_systemd.cgi Next I will post the package list with version numbers. I plan on doing this for Squeeze, Wheezy and Jessie. Stan > etech3 >>> >>> >>> I don't have any systemd on my squeeze. How did you manage that? >>> Backports? >>> >>> golinux >> >> Yes, me too. I am quite sure that I didn't get anything related to >> systemd on Debian squeeze, not even /etc/systemd and /lib/systemd >> folders. Perhaps they were left over from your previous install. Did you >> do clean install? >> >> ___ >> Dng mailing list >> Dng@lists.dyne.org >> https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng >> > > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greets
On 03/10/2015 05:32 PM, hellekin wrote: > On 03/10/15 11:57, Steve Litt wrote: >>> I agree with you that Devuan governance needs to differ from Debian's, >>> and that is must consider the general interest as well as respect the >>> particular. >> >> LOL >> > *** Can you expand the acronym? I'm not sure I find anything funny here. > > == > hk > Irony is a form of humor... and it is ironic that the most democratic freedom (to vote away the principles) results in the most non-free end result (total lock in and ignoring users). It would be funnier if it wasn't pathetic. Democracy is a very delicate system, and a constitution with missing points, or that can be changed later by a future corrupt government, doesn't solve it completely. So to address the missing points, the draft says "9.10 Software must not encourage lock-in", which is exactly what we were missing, and I'm happy to see that there... but there is always something else we can't predict that is also missing. I was hoping to see some insight in there, for example in the "4. Decision-making bodies and individuals" section. And especially hope it doesn't say anything like "anyone can join en masse and override all the decisions completely overnight". ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greets
On Tue, 10 Mar 2015 13:32:04 -0300 hellekin wrote: > On 03/10/15 11:57, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > LOL > > > *** Can you expand the acronym? I'm not sure I find anything funny > here. > > == > hk Laughing Out Loud... I find everything concerning Debian to be hillarious. Most of all their governance. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greets
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 11:04:26PM +0100, Peter Maloney wrote: > especially hope it doesn't say anything like "anyone can join en masse > and override all the decisions completely overnight". In churches, especially those rules by the congregation, this is called steeplejacking. My church has a rule that no one gets to vote until they've been a member of the congregation for at least a year. Thiw slowws things down. I'm not sure what the rule should be for Devuan. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greets
On Tue, 3/10/15, Hendrik Boom wrote: Subject: Re: [Dng] greets To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2015, 5:44 PM On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 11:04:26PM +0100, Peter Maloney wrote: >> especially hope it doesn't say anything like "anyone can join en masse >> and override all the decisions completely overnight". > > In churches, especially those rules by the congregation, this is called > steeplejacking. > > My church has a rule that no one gets to vote until they've been a > member of the congregation for at least a year. Thiw slowws things > down. > > I'm not sure what the rule should be for Devuan. > > -- hendrik Here's a story . . . my local food co-op recently had a vote to boycott a product. There are @16,000 members. In the end the vote was 639 for the boycott and 338 against. I call it the tyranny of the majority of the minority. Still leaves a bitter taste . . . The point being that unless folks participate and have made a well-founded decision (not just on hearsay), democracy doesn't work very well . . . I'm just a little ray of sunshine today . . . :) golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greets
On Tue, 3/10/15, hellekin wrote: Subject: Re: [Dng] greets To: dng@lists.dyne.org Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2015, 11:32 AM On 03/10/15 11:57, Steve Litt wrote: > > LOL > *** Can you expand the acronym? I'm not sure I find anything funny here. == hk How about Little Old Lady. ;) golinux ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greets
On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:44 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > until they've been a > member What constitutes Devuan membership? ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
[Dng] Devuan governance
(changed the Subject to reflect thread drift) On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 11:53:01PM +, Nuno Magalhães wrote: > On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:44 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote: > > until they've been a > > member > > What constitutes Devuan membership? > ___ > Dng mailing list > Dng@lists.dyne.org > https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng Good question. At the moment, decisions seem to be taken by the Veteran Unix Administrators. And the appear to be doing a good job, listening to the people on the mailing list, buf making thir own decisions based on their own needs and the technical exigencies. Considering that their needs are, lrgely, the needs of the systemd refugees that define this loose grouping of users, this is working now. For the long run, it's not clear what we want. Who should be represented, or whether there should be any kind of voting or democracy at all. This has, historically, been the hard part of having a successful revolution. Deciding what the new regime should be, rather them merely being against the old. Of course, one great difference between this and the revolutions we have learned about in history books (sometimes written by the winners) is the the devuan constituency is not defined by geographical boundries. Debian is being forked. SO can Devuan be forked. It's this forkability that can make autocratic rule work -- ultimately, there are no real autocrats. -- hendrik ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
Re: [Dng] greets
> On March 10, 2015 at 7:09 PM Go Linux wrote: > > > On Tue, 3/10/15, hellekin wrote: > > Subject: Re: [Dng] greets > To: dng@lists.dyne.org > Date: Tuesday, March 10, 2015, 11:32 AM > > On 03/10/15 11:57, Steve Litt wrote: > > > > LOL > > > *** Can you expand the acronym? I'm not sure I find anything funny here. > > == > hk > > > > > How about Little Old Lady. ;) > > golinux Or Liberty over Lennart :-) peabo ___ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
