About Me (New Volunteer)

[zimuzo ezeozue]

Hi, My name is Zim. I'm a Nigerian software developer. Currently an
undergraduate student studying Mechanical Engineering. I'm interested in
building for AOO for the following reasons:
1. To improve my skills as a developer.
2. Im passionate about the open source community and I would love to be
a contributor

This is my first attempt at an open source project. I currently work with a
startup https://callbase.co/ . I have a personal project i worked on at
some time with my brother http://www.nepasituation.com/ . Im proficient in
Java. I know a some Python and Javascript. With a little C++.

Im eager to hear from someone. Thanks

Re: About Me (New Volunteer)

[zimuzo ezeozue]

Im interested in the OpenOffice PyUno bridge


On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 8:21 AM, zimuzo ezeozue wrote:

> Hi, My name is Zim. I'm a Nigerian software developer. Currently an
> undergraduate student studying Mechanical Engineering. I'm interested in
> building for AOO for the following reasons:
> 1. To improve my skills as a developer.
> 2. Im passionate about the open source community and I would love to
> be a contributor
>
> This is my first attempt at an open source project. I currently work with
> a startup https://callbase.co/ . I have a personal project i worked on at
> some time with my brother http://www.nepasituation.com/ . Im proficient
> in Java. I know a some Python and Javascript. With a little C++.
>
> Im eager to hear from someone. Thanks
>

Re: About Me (New Volunteer)

[Alexandro Colorado]

That's excellent there are some guides for PyUNO and good tutorials and
sample code here:
http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Python


On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 2:38 AM, zimuzo ezeozue wrote:

> Im interested in the OpenOffice PyUno bridge
>
>
> On Mon, May 26, 2014 at 8:21 AM, zimuzo ezeozue  >wrote:
>
> > Hi, My name is Zim. I'm a Nigerian software developer. Currently an
> > undergraduate student studying Mechanical Engineering. I'm interested in
> > building for AOO for the following reasons:
> > 1. To improve my skills as a developer.
> > 2. Im passionate about the open source community and I would love to
> > be a contributor
> >
> > This is my first attempt at an open source project. I currently work with
> > a startup https://callbase.co/ . I have a personal project i worked on
> at
> > some time with my brother http://www.nepasituation.com/ . Im proficient
> > in Java. I know a some Python and Javascript. With a little C++.
> >
> > Im eager to hear from someone. Thanks
> >
>



-- 
Alexandro Colorado
Apache OpenOffice Contributor
882C 4389 3C27 E8DF 41B9  5C4C 1DB7 9D1C 7F4C 2614

Re: [DOWNLOAD][PROPOSAL] How to download another version than offered in the green box?

[Jürgen Schmidt]

On 23/05/14 22:23, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
> Am 05/20/2014 09:55 PM, schrieb Marcus (OOo):
>> Am 05/20/2014 09:27 AM, schrieb Jürgen Schmidt:
>>> On 19/05/14 20:58, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
 Am 05/19/2014 09:11 AM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
> Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>> This weekend just a little update as I was not able to do more work
>> (healthy problem):
>> http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/download/test/index_droplist.html
>
> It's nice! I would say it's almost done. It works correctly for me.

 Thanks.

 I got the chance to test on different browsers on Windows 7:

 - Firefox --> All looks fine, working as expected

 - IE 10 --> All looks fine, working as expected

 - Chrome --> No text in DL links but they work OK,
 incomplete text in sub-green,
 no links besides the both little icons,
 doesn't change when different items were chosen

 - Opera --> No text in DL links but they work OK,
 incomplete text in sub-green,
 no links besides the both little icons,
 doesn't change when different items were chosen

 And I've no clue for now how it looks like on Firefox and Safari on
 OS X.
>>>
>>> mmh, the drop down boxes have still different height and look not so
>>> good on Firefox
>>>
>>> http://people.apache.org/~jsc/test/Firefox_downloadbox.png
>>
>> That's strange as with Firefox on Windows and Linux it's fine.
>>
>>> And Safari has of course other problems with the button below the boxes
>>> http://people.apache.org/~jsc/test/Safari_downloadbox.png
>>
>> That looks quite similar to what I've seen with Chrome and Opera.
>>
>> Therefore hopefully the same root cause.
> 
> I think, it was the same. I've changed one thing in the JS to output the
> text. And now it works.
> 
> Tested (via Browsershots.org) with Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera on
> Linux, Windows, Mac.
> 
> Unfortunately, there was no IE available. Can someone of you test this
> please?
> 

it looks now ok on Firefox on Mac

Juergen



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Re: Native Language and Localization pages on cwiki might benefit from some organization

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hello Andrea, *, 

> From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] 

> OK, so you mean: not only mailing list (that are easy to setup, for 
> example a mailing list in German dedicated to events), but 
> also ways to 
> build a community. Here there's almost nothing we can do, say, 
> "top-bottom"; this must grow from local events.

> [...]

> Local activities do not need coordination or approval. When I 
> speak (in 
> Italian) about OpenOffice at some nearby event, I don't ask 
> for approval 
> on the project lists and I simply clarify, at the event, that I'm not 
> officially speaking on behalf of the project. The same holds 
> for you and 
> anyone else. We surely doesn't want to control communication 
> at this level.

That is clear, but that 's not exactly what I mean.

Yes, a local community must grow themselves, but they need structures within the
overall international project.

( I speak in the following about German, but his statement applies to all
countries / languages)

First:
--
There is a difference between the German-speaking community [1] and the German
community [2] and the German community does not have a formal structure, such as
because the website de.openoffice.org is not the website of the German community
but only the German translation of the international website.
What is missing is the function as a part of the structure of the project. 
There,
for example, missing official local representatives (in OOo these were the
co-leads).

[1] 
these are people speak German, but do not work locally (for example developers) 
[2] 
these are people who work mainly locally


In the simplest case could be members of the AOO PMC additionally assume this
function, but that will not work well because "local representative" is a
full-time job. A good developer does not have the time for it.
I think we need to ask ourselves these questions of local structures and
_long-term_ need to create such structures.

Second:
---
I join (mutatis mutandis) to the what Alexandro says: LibreOffice is way ahead 
of
us in these things and they are it's a question of organization, manpower and
money.

In my work for OOo I know this is manpower important than money, but it depends 
on
the right combination of money and manpower, both in software development as 
well
as the local marketing work. 

> They evolved with a totally different structure. This looks 
> very bad and 
> must be fixed. The most reasonable way to me seems that we 
> will have a 
> "common" part (English original, replicate for other languages; this 
> includes the layout) and a "specific" part where materials in native 
> language will be shown, specific to each language (documentation in 
> native language, announces about "local" events... OK there's a mixup 
> between languages and countries but you get the idea).

That's clear, but please look practice. 

It is to say, a difference that _should be_ a English original there or it _must
be_ a English original there. 
In the worst case, the requirement may, after an English original cause, the
volunteers do without your help. 

Why? 
Look at me, I am a professional expert on OpenOffice and it is easy for me a
ten-page article (in German) to write about the Extension Manager. The same
article, however, in English is very difficult for me.


> Nothing prevents you from linking to a third party forum, 
> especially if 
> we don't have
> an official resource. 

OK.

> (Maybe we'll want to check trademarks 
> usage there, 
> but this is another issue).

Yes, clear.

> We don't have that budget available now. We do have a budget for 
> OpenOffice events, but it is a one-time budget from which I expect we 
> may spend a few thousands Euros/dollars per year. But in the 
> next weeks 
> we will probably see changes about targeted donations (now 
> not used at 
> Apache): this may allow to start dedicated fundraising 
> campaigns if we 
> find it useful to do so.

I think there is in practice a major problem, namely the donors want to donate
directly to work on Open Office and not for Apache in general. 

It might be helpful for us if we would understand this concern for donors and 
for
opportunities would open up. 

I am, for example, believe that we could get enough donations for Open Office in
Germany to fund our local work and that could be used for general purposes of
Apache at the same time still have money left over. But we need clear agreements
for it, because of course the donors want their donation is tax deductible, and
that's a question of local law.



Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: Native Language and Localization pages on cwiki might benefit from some organization

[jan i]

On 26 May 2014 10:37, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:

> Hello Andrea, *,
>
> > From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org]
>
> > OK, so you mean: not only mailing list (that are easy to setup, for
> > example a mailing list in German dedicated to events), but
> > also ways to
> > build a community. Here there's almost nothing we can do, say,
> > "top-bottom"; this must grow from local events.
>
> > [...]
>
> > Local activities do not need coordination or approval. When I
> > speak (in
> > Italian) about OpenOffice at some nearby event, I don't ask
> > for approval
> > on the project lists and I simply clarify, at the event, that I'm not
> > officially speaking on behalf of the project. The same holds
> > for you and
> > anyone else. We surely doesn't want to control communication
> > at this level.
>
> That is clear, but that 's not exactly what I mean.
>
> Yes, a local community must grow themselves, but they need structures
> within the
> overall international project.
>
> ( I speak in the following about German, but his statement applies to all
> countries / languages)
>
> First:
> --
> There is a difference between the German-speaking community [1] and the
> German
> community [2] and the German community does not have a formal structure,
> such as
> because the website de.openoffice.org is not the website of the German
> community
> but only the German translation of the international website.
> What is missing is the function as a part of the structure of the project.
> There,
> for example, missing official local representatives (in OOo these were the
> co-leads).
>
> [1]
> these are people speak German, but do not work locally (for example
> developers)
> [2]
> these are people who work mainly locally
>
>
> In the simplest case could be members of the AOO PMC additionally assume
> this
> function, but that will not work well because "local representative" is a
> full-time job. A good developer does not have the time for it.
> I think we need to ask ourselves these questions of local structures and
> _long-term_ need to create such structures.
>
> Second:
> ---
> I join (mutatis mutandis) to the what Alexandro says: LibreOffice is way
> ahead of
> us in these things and they are it's a question of organization, manpower
> and
> money.
>
> In my work for OOo I know this is manpower important than money, but it
> depends on
> the right combination of money and manpower, both in software development
> as well
> as the local marketing work.
>
> > They evolved with a totally different structure. This looks
> > very bad and
> > must be fixed. The most reasonable way to me seems that we
> > will have a
> > "common" part (English original, replicate for other languages; this
> > includes the layout) and a "specific" part where materials in native
> > language will be shown, specific to each language (documentation in
> > native language, announces about "local" events... OK there's a mixup
> > between languages and countries but you get the idea).
>
> That's clear, but please look practice.
>
> It is to say, a difference that _should be_ a English original there or it
> _must
> be_ a English original there.
> In the worst case, the requirement may, after an English original cause,
> the
> volunteers do without your help.
>
> Why?
> Look at me, I am a professional expert on OpenOffice and it is easy for me
> a
> ten-page article (in German) to write about the Extension Manager. The same
> article, however, in English is very difficult for me.
>
>
> > Nothing prevents you from linking to a third party forum,
> > especially if
> > we don't have
> > an official resource.
>
> OK.
>
> > (Maybe we'll want to check trademarks
> > usage there,
> > but this is another issue).
>
> Yes, clear.
>
> > We don't have that budget available now. We do have a budget for
> > OpenOffice events, but it is a one-time budget from which I expect we
> > may spend a few thousands Euros/dollars per year. But in the
> > next weeks
> > we will probably see changes about targeted donations (now
> > not used at
> > Apache): this may allow to start dedicated fundraising
> > campaigns if we
> > find it useful to do so.
>
> I think there is in practice a major problem, namely the donors want to
> donate
> directly to work on Open Office and not for Apache in general.
>
> It might be helpful for us if we would understand this concern for donors
> and for
> opportunities would open up.
>
> I am, for example, believe that we could get enough donations for Open
> Office in
> Germany to fund our local work and that could be used for general purposes
> of
> Apache at the same time still have money left over. But we need clear
> agreements
> for it, because of course the donors want their donation is tax
> deductible, and
> that's a question of local law.
>

We need to be very careful here. I dont know the german laws, but in many
countries a donation is only tax deductible if given to a non-profit
foundation (like apache), as soon as the mone

[Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hello,

I suggest on the website https://forum.openoffice.org/ the following text to 
add:

"DE  es gibt es bisher kein deutschsprachiges Unterforum, wir empfehlen die 
Nutzung des externen deutschen Forums http://de.openoffice.info";

(translation: "DE there is so far no German speaking sub-forum, we recommend 
the use of the external German Forum http://de.openoffice.info";)


*If there was no opposition in the next 3 days, I will carry out the proposed 
changes.*


Justification: 
It's bad the German-speaking users do not have a German board, but it is 
reality. Therefore it is better to link to an external resource, but to let the 
users with their questions alone. 
Andrea told me that this type of linking is a permissible way. 

Notes: 
(a) 
This link will only be temporary until we have a German forum area itself. 
(b)
On http://de.openoffice.info many years we have clearly identified that there 
is an independent forum: 
http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12975 
Thus, misunderstandings are likely to be excluded.
(c)
I am myself since 8 years one of the moderators of http://de.openoffice.info 
(my nickname in the Forum is "Stephan"), I can guarantee for the respectability 
of the forum.



Greeting,
Jörg 


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[FR web forum]

Just one question: why not embed this forum in forum.openoffice.org/de?
de.openoffice.info run with PhpBB 3. So a transfert should be easy.

- Mail original -
De: "Jörg Schmidt" 
À: dev@openoffice.apache.org
Envoyé: Lundi 26 Mai 2014 11:29:32
Objet: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

Hello,

I suggest on the website https://forum.openoffice.org/ the following text to 
add:

"DE  es gibt es bisher kein deutschsprachiges Unterforum, wir empfehlen die 
Nutzung des externen deutschen Forums http://de.openoffice.info";

(translation: "DE there is so far no German speaking sub-forum, we recommend 
the use of the external German Forum http://de.openoffice.info";)


*If there was no opposition in the next 3 days, I will carry out the proposed 
changes.*


Justification: 
It's bad the German-speaking users do not have a German board, but it is 
reality. Therefore it is better to link to an external resource, but to let the 
users with their questions alone. 
Andrea told me that this type of linking is a permissible way. 

Notes: 
(a) 
This link will only be temporary until we have a German forum area itself. 
(b)
On http://de.openoffice.info many years we have clearly identified that there 
is an independent forum: 
http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12975 
Thus, misunderstandings are likely to be excluded.
(c)
I am myself since 8 years one of the moderators of http://de.openoffice.info 
(my nickname in the Forum is "Stephan"), I can guarantee for the respectability 
of the forum.



Greeting,
Jörg 


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Re: Native Language and Localization pages on cwiki might benefit from some organization

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: jan i [mailto:j...@apache.org] 

> We need to be very careful here. I dont know the german laws, 
> but in many
> countries a donation is only tax deductible if given to a non-profit
> foundation (like apache), as soon as the money is "earmarked" 
> "targeted"
> they are not considered given to the foundation and therefore not
> deductible.
> 
> The background for it is very clear, the tax offices dont 
> want companies to
> start a project within a non-profit foundation, and thereby 
> get immediate
> tax release (donation is released same year as given). If a 
> company does
> development it is considered an invested and the tax release 
> comes over
> typically 3-5 years.

You are absolutely right .

It is needless to mention at the moment details, because I did not intend with 
my suggestion that we should do something in the short term .

I myself am but well informed about these legal issues because they concerned 
us at the German OOo-community and because we are familiar in the third party 
project http://www.prooo-box.org with it.

In addition, I would point out that we in the AOO community also have a right 
German attorney, Michael (its committer id is "mikeadvo").



Gretings,
Jörg


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[jan i]

On 26 May 2014 11:29, Jörg Schmidt  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I suggest on the website https://forum.openoffice.org/ the following text
> to add:
>
> "DE  es gibt es bisher kein deutschsprachiges Unterforum, wir empfehlen
> die Nutzung des externen deutschen Forums http://de.openoffice.info";
>
> (translation: "DE there is so far no German speaking sub-forum, we
> recommend the use of the external German Forum http://de.openoffice.info";)
>
>
> *If there was no opposition in the next 3 days, I will carry out the
> proposed changes.*
>
+1

>
>
> Justification:
> It's bad the German-speaking users do not have a German board, but it is
> reality. Therefore it is better to link to an external resource, but to let
> the users with their questions alone.
> Andrea told me that this type of linking is a permissible way.
>
> Notes:
> (a)
> This link will only be temporary until we have a German forum area itself.
> (b)
> On http://de.openoffice.info many years we have clearly identified that
> there is an independent forum:
> http://de.openoffice.info/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12975
> Thus, misunderstandings are likely to be excluded.
> (c)
> I am myself since 8 years one of the moderators of
> http://de.openoffice.info (my nickname in the Forum is "Stephan"), I can
> guarantee for the respectability of the forum.
>
>
>
> Greeting,
> Jörg
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
>
>

Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

> -Original Message-
> From: FR web forum [mailto:ooofo...@free.fr] 

> Subject: Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum
> 
> Just one question: why not embed this forum in 
> forum.openoffice.org/de?
> de.openoffice.info run with PhpBB 3. So a transfert should be easy.

Because we are an independent forum and want to stay that way. 

We have also maintained our independence against OOo and LO and we would not 
have done if we were now a part of LO. 

I think AOO has a right over his interests to decide, we (de.openoffice.info) 
but also on our.



Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Detlef Nannen]

> I suggest on the website https://forum.openoffice.org/ the following
> text to add:
> "DE  es gibt es bisher kein deutschsprachiges Unterforum, wir
> empfehlen die Nutzung des externen deutschen Forums
http://de.openoffice.info";
> (translation: "DE there is so far no German speaking sub-forum, we
> recommend the use of the external German Forum http://de.openoffice.info";)
>
> *If there was no opposition in the next 3 days, I will carry out the
> proposed changes.*

+1





-- 
Sent from MetroMail

Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Rory O'Farrell]

On Mon, 26 May 2014 11:52:36 +0200
Jörg Schmidt  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> > From: FR web forum [mailto:ooofo...@free.fr] 
> 
> > Subject: Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum
> > 
> > Just one question: why not embed this forum in 
> > forum.openoffice.org/de?
> > de.openoffice.info run with PhpBB 3. So a transfert should be easy.
> 
> Because we are an independent forum and want to stay that way. 
> 
> We have also maintained our independence against OOo and LO and we would not 
> have done if we were now a part of LO. 
> 
> I think AOO has a right over his interests to decide, we (de.openoffice.info) 
> but also on our.
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> Jörg
> 
The en-Forum faced the same problem and I think is happy on the Apache servers. 
I suggest you contact Hagar offlist and have a talk with him.  

-- 
Rory O'Farrell 

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Rory O'Farrell [mailto:ofarr...@iol.ie] 

> The en-Forum faced the same problem and I think is happy on 
> the Apache servers. I suggest you contact Hagar offlist and 
> have a talk with him.  

Thank you, but we are an independent forum and want to stay that. 
We do not require any technical support (eg Server) from Apache. 


Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jürgen Schmidt]

On 26/05/14 11:52, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: FR web forum [mailto:ooofo...@free.fr] 
> 
>> Subject: Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum
>>
>> Just one question: why not embed this forum in 
>> forum.openoffice.org/de?
>> de.openoffice.info run with PhpBB 3. So a transfert should be easy.
> 
> Because we are an independent forum and want to stay that way. 
> 
> We have also maintained our independence against OOo and LO and we would not 
> have done if we were now a part of LO. 
> 
> I think AOO has a right over his interests to decide, we (de.openoffice.info) 
> but also on our.

And it is the wrong direction from my point of view and even the domain
name is critical. Are you sure that is allowed to use this Url without
permission form Apache.

Juergen

> 
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> Jörg
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
> 


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Mathias Röllig]

Hello Jörg!

Am 26.05.2014 11:29, schrieb Jörg Schmidt:

I suggest on the website https://forum.openoffice.org/ the following
text to add:

"DE  es gibt es bisher kein deutschsprachiges Unterforum, wir
empfehlen die Nutzung des externen deutschen Forums
http://de.openoffice.info";

(translation: "DE there is so far no German speaking sub-forum, we
recommend the use of the external German Forum
http://de.openoffice.info";)


*If there was no opposition in the next 3 days, I will carry out the
proposed changes.*


It is bad that there is no DE subforum.
But linking to http://de.openoffice.info is a bit problematic in my 
opinion. The reason is the combination of OOo and LO; it is not a main 
AOO forum.


I'm not against to support AOO and LO in one place. But from the point 
of view of the project AOO there should be a stringent separation 
between this two apart drifting projects.


The user must understand that LO<>AOO and the space between will get 
bigger. Each project have its own Bugzilla. And especially AOO Bugzilla 
doesn't need more bug reports and bug comments which LO belongs to.


But this is only my opinion.

Regards, Mathias

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Tracking bugs like Issue 124985 - [Meta] Meta Bug for collecting bugs which appeal for AOO 4.1.x

[Rainer Bielefeld]

Hi,

my experience is that such tracking bugs are not useful. The time 
invested in adding dependencies (what is rather uncertain, who can know 
how many bugs are missing and on what facts the various contributors 
added the bugs to the Meta) should be invested (with much more benefit) 
into careful review of the related BZ bugs and completion of information 
in the BZ bugs.


An example: "Issue 124891 - CRASH when close sidebar with Navigator active"

I found that one with importance "Normal", what is rather inappropriate, 
that one has blocker quality. Such a report should get an appropriate 
importance rating, that's enough. If all info in the reports is up to 
date a simple query replaces the Meta Bug.


And why is "Issue 124947 - Fullscreen Filter Freeze" blocking the meta 
bug? Currently we know nothing, it's unconfirmed ...


"Issue 114361 - "Read Error" with embedded images after saving in 
Writer" appeared with 3.2, why is this listed in a 4.1 related tracking bug?


And so on.

I recommend not to create tracking bugs what can be replaced easily by 
queries and if there is no evidence that they are necessary for the bug 
fixing process.


And if there is a decision that the tracking bug should be created 
please follow


Best regards

Rainer

Hyperlinks:
[1] 



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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Andrea Pescetti]

Jörg Schmidt wrote:

I suggest on the website https://forum.openoffice.org/ the following text to 
add:
"DE  es gibt es bisher kein deutschsprachiges Unterforum, wir empfehlen die Nutzung 
des externen deutschen Forums http://de.openoffice.info";
(translation: "DE there is so far no German speaking sub-forum, we recommend the use 
of the external German Forum http://de.openoffice.info";)


I must clarify what I wrote. I meant it's fine to link to third-party 
resources from the DE website, I didn't have the forum homepage in mind; 
and I now see that indeed this is done at
http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html reachable from the DE homepage 
after clicking on the support option.


So, without adding any new external links, I'd recommend we do the 
following instead: edit https://forum.openoffice.org/ so that it has the 
additional record (to be translated to German):

DE - Third party forums in German
and it links to
http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html
where you can give more explanations if needed, or rearrange the listing 
or whatever.



*If there was no opposition in the next 3 days, I will carry out the proposed 
changes.*


You can't change https://forum.openoffice.org/ since that homepage (a 
plain HTML/PHP file) is maintained directly on the forum servers. 
Anyway, since it's just a text+link performing the change is not so bad 
once we have agreement.



On http://de.openoffice.info many years we have clearly identified that there 
is an independent forum:


The official forum is "independent" too, in the sense that it offers 
support for OpenOffice and derivatives (it's in the forum header, just 
open https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ ) without making 
preferences: users are equal.


Two things that are not covered here are:
- as I wrote yesterday, we'll need to discuss trademarks usage on 
openoffice.info (this is also a reason why I'm opposing that we add a 
direct link from the Forum homepage to that specific third-party 
service); this can be addressed later and on the appropriate channels.
- a possible migration so that the two forums are hosted on the same 
platform: if on one side you don't need help with PHPBB administration, 
on the other side the official forum may use some system administration 
help! So there are still some gains in joining efforts.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: Tracking bugs like Issue 124985 - [Meta] Meta Bug for collecting bugs which appeal for AOO 4.1.x

[Herbert Duerr]

On 26.05.2014 13:14, Rainer Bielefeld wrote:

my experience is that such tracking bugs are not useful. The time
invested in adding dependencies (what is rather uncertain, who can know
how many bugs are missing and on what facts the various contributors
added the bugs to the Meta) should be invested (with much more benefit)
into careful review of the related BZ bugs and completion of information
in the BZ bugs.


I disagree that they are useless. As long as we're not sure if or when 
we should do a 4.1.1 and what changes could get into it such a 
meta-issue gives an easy overview of the candidates and their status:


https://issues.apache.org/ooo/showdependencytree.cgi?id=124985&hide_resolved=0

If we decide to make a bugfix release then the appropriate milestone 
target and its release-blocker flag will be created. Once the issue 
candidates have been reviewed and their bug fields (target and blocker) 
have been adjusted only then the meta-bug becomes irrelevant. But up to 
that point it is a good tracking mechanism with global visibility, clear 
accountability of who suggested what and direct links to the candidate 
issues.



I recommend not to create tracking bugs what can be replaced easily by
queries and if there is no evidence that they are necessary for the bug
fixing process.

And if there is a decision that the tracking bug should be created
please follow
[...]



Currently this query just yields bug 124891 which indeed looks like a 
good candidate.


I suggest to FUP this discussion on the q...@openoffice.apache.org list.

Herbert

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[FR web forum]

In other way, if we propose to create a new NL forum, can we do it?
One year ago, we should have a Portugese forum:
https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg06330.html
As yet nothing has been done.

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Mathias Röllig [mailto:mroellig.n...@gmx.net] 

> It is bad that there is no DE subforum.
> But linking to http://de.openoffice.info is a bit problematic in my 
> opinion. The reason is the combination of OOo and LO; it is 
> not a main 
> AOO forum.

And where is the apache rule that says that?

> I'm not against to support AOO and LO in one place. But from 
> the point 
> of view of the project AOO there should be a stringent separation 
> between this two apart drifting projects.

That is imho not true. Whenever I read discussions on this, it is emphasized 
that there should be the widest possible cooperation between AOO and LO. 

It is only a few months ago that I heard by a third party that Jürgen (Schmidt) 
was commended for which he has represented precisely this opinion in a public 
lecture, or does not correspond to the facts?

> The user must understand that LO<>AOO and the space between will get 
> bigger. 

Oh, _i_ think the user must understand that AOO and LO are both free software. 
And I say this even though I am critic of the TDF. But to be critics of the 
TDF, it means not to be critics of LO.



Greetings,
Jörg



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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hi there, 

We all could see that met my suggestion to the resistance of three community 
members (thank you to Andrea, Jürgen and Mathias For their opinions), so I'm 
_not_ going to implement my proposal. 


Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: [DOWNLOAD][PROPOSAL] How to download another version than offered in the green box?

[Tal Daniel]

On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 11:23 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:
>
> Marcus (OOo) wrote:
>
>> [...] http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/download/test/
>> index_droplist.html
>
>
> [...]
> Unfortunately, there was no IE available. Can someone of you test this
> please?


Win, IE10 – looks fine;
Win, Chrome – almost fine: missing triangle buttons from select boxes, so
people can't distinguish they can choose something else.

Great work, Marcus,
Tal

Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jürgen Schmidt]

On 26/05/14 16:34, Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> Hi there, 
> 
> We all could see that met my suggestion to the resistance of three community 
> members (thank you to Andrea, Jürgen and Mathias For their opinions), so I'm 
> _not_ going to implement my proposal. 
> 

well I expressed my opinion only, I am always a friend to use the forum
we have at Apache now. Means one entry point. And I still believe that
the Url is critical even it was registered in 2003. But well it exists
for such a long time and as long it is not misused.

Juergen

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Jürgen Schmidt [mailto:jogischm...@gmail.com] 

> > We all could see that met my suggestion to the resistance 
> of three community members (thank you to Andrea, Jürgen and 
> Mathias For their opinions), so I'm _not_ going to implement 
> my proposal. 
> > 
> 
> well I expressed my opinion only, 

absolutely no problem, I have use the method "Lazy Consensus" and I got 
contradiction, so my suggestion is off the table. 

> I am always a friend to use 
> the forum
> we have at Apache now.

and there is no German-language forum, but that seems to be no problem for you.

For us as a project and our German users this is a 'lose-lose-situation' ... I 
spare myself any further word ...


Jörg


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RE: buildbot success in ASF Buildbot on openoffice-linux64-nightly

[Keyter, Petrus]

Unsubscrive

-Original Message-
From: build...@apache.org [mailto:build...@apache.org] 
Sent: 26 May 2014 10:42 AM
To: comm...@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: buildbot success in ASF Buildbot on openoffice-linux64-nightly

The Buildbot has detected a passing build on builder openoffice-linux64-nightly 
while building ASF Buildbot.
Full details are available at:
 http://ci.apache.org/builders/openoffice-linux64-nightly/builds/29

Buildbot URL: http://ci.apache.org/

Buildslave for this Build: tethys_ubuntu

Build Reason: The Nightly scheduler named 'openoffice-linux64-nightly' 
triggered this build Build Source Stamp: [branch openoffice/trunk] HEAD
Blamelist: 

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] 

> I must clarify what I wrote. I meant it's fine to link to third-party 
> resources from the DE website, I didn't have the forum 
> homepage in mind; 

OK

> and I now see that indeed this is done at
> http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html reachable from the DE 
> homepage 
> after clicking on the support option.

Yes, it is a old website
 
> So, without adding any new external links, I'd recommend we do the 
> following instead: edit https://forum.openoffice.org/ so that 
> it has the 
> additional record (to be translated to German):
> DE - Third party forums in German

I would love to, no problem. 
I just thought the phrase "external" is not to be misunderstood, but we can of 
course write "third party".

> You can't change https://forum.openoffice.org/ since that homepage (a 
> plain HTML/PHP file) is maintained directly on the forum servers. 

I did not know. But I think it does not matter, because I have withdrawn my 
suggestion anyway.

> > On http://de.openoffice.info many years we have clearly 
> identified that there is an independent forum:
> 
> The official forum is "independent" too, in the sense that it offers 
> support for OpenOffice and derivatives 

this was not my definition of "independent", but what I meant was not it part 
of a particular project is.
It's not important, I just wanted to clarify what I meant.


Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Mathias Röllig]

It is bad that there is no DE subforum. But linking to
http://de.openoffice.info is a bit problematic in my opinion. The
reason is the combination of OOo and LO; it is not a main AOO
forum.


And where is the apache rule that says that?


My opinion isn't an Apache rule. And vice versa.



I'm not against to support AOO and LO in one place. But from the
point of view of the project AOO there should be a stringent
separation between this two apart drifting projects.


That is imho not true. Whenever I read discussions on this, it is
emphasized that there should be the widest possible cooperation
between AOO and LO.


Read the first sentence of the paragraph above.
That anybody or any site supports the software AOO and LO has nothing to 
do with a cooperation between the projects AOO and LO.




It is only a few months ago that I heard by a third party that Jürgen
(Schmidt) was commended for which he has represented precisely this
opinion in a public lecture, or does not correspond to the facts?


I'm not Jürgen.



The user must understand that LO<>AOO and the space between will
get bigger.


Oh, _i_ think the user must understand that AOO and LO are both free
software. And I say this even though I am critic of the TDF. But to
be critics of the TDF, it means not to be critics of LO.


Yes, but this is not against my opinion. It is only a possible addition.
But maybe I should clarify that I meant the distance between the the 
software AOO and LO. And that a problem with the software should be 
reported at the right place.



Regards, Mathias

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Re: buildbot success in ASF Buildbot on openoffice-linux64-nightly

[Christopher Hallsworth]

Try
dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org
Sorry only helping.


Christopher Hallsworth
Student at the Hadley School for the Blind
www.hadley.edu

On 26/05/2014 12:43, Keyter, Petrus wrote:

Unsubscrive

-Original Message-
From: build...@apache.org [mailto:build...@apache.org]
Sent: 26 May 2014 10:42 AM
To: comm...@openoffice.apache.org
Subject: buildbot success in ASF Buildbot on openoffice-linux64-nightly

The Buildbot has detected a passing build on builder openoffice-linux64-nightly 
while building ASF Buildbot.
Full details are available at:
  http://ci.apache.org/builders/openoffice-linux64-nightly/builds/29

Buildbot URL: http://ci.apache.org/

Buildslave for this Build: tethys_ubuntu

Build Reason: The Nightly scheduler named 'openoffice-linux64-nightly' 
triggered this build Build Source Stamp: [branch openoffice/trunk] HEAD
Blamelist:

Build succeeded!

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Re: Tracking bugs like Issue 124985 - [Meta] Meta Bug for collecting bugs which appeal for AOO 4.1.x

[Rainer Bielefeld]

Hi Herbert,

I think we have some misunderstanding here.

It's an essential that information should be consistent at any place for 
Bugzilla.


Here an overview concerning priority /severity of the issues listed in 
the meta-issue;



   !  Critical  major normaltrivial  ! Total
---!-!--
P1 !1 . . .  !   1
P2 !. . . 1  !   1
P3 !. 4 5 .  !   9
---!-!--
Tot!1 4 5 1  !  11

So my question is why Issue 114361 with severity "trivial" has been 
considered by godlike decision (there is no reasoning, neither in Issue 
124985 nor in Issue 114361) so serious that it has been added added to 
the meta bug? With some minimum carefulness the severity would have been 
rised to "major" or more, the dataloss keyword would have been added, so 
that the decision will be comprehensible. I did that now in Issue 114361


Common known characteristics of unresolved Issue 124985 blocking Bug 
reports you find in Report [1] (More than 3400). So the question is why 
have 11 been picked as blocker for the meta issue, but more of 3400 not [2]?


With some minimum corrections for the criteria of possible Meta bug 
blockers I can reduce the number by 90% [3]


[4] Sorts these issues by priority /severity, the 12 with "critical + 
P2" need some urgent review as I did for "Issue 118725 - images dropped 
by random"

 
"Issue 122780"
  and others

And so on.

Such systematic working is the only way for real progress.

If after some work we have valid data in the bug reports Meta Bugs 
indeed can be useful to show up dependencies and relations what are not 
simply visible in the bug reports.


For anything else queries like
 
(shared with registered users) are much more powerful, especially in 
projects with bigger community than AOO and much bug tracker activity 
(20 reports per day, not only 2).


Best regards

Rainer

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Re: [DOWNLOAD][PROPOSAL] How to download another version than offered in the green box?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 05/26/2014 04:34 PM, schrieb Tal Daniel:

On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 11:23 PM, Marcus (OOo)  wrote:


Marcus (OOo) wrote:



[...] http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/download/test/
index_droplist.html




[...]
Unfortunately, there was no IE available. Can someone of you test this
please?



Win, IE10 – looks fine;


Great.


Win, Chrome – almost fine: missing triangle buttons from select boxes, so
people can't distinguish they can choose something else.


I've already added a respective text directly above the select boxes - 
hoping that it's OK for the moment.



Great work, Marcus,


Thanks for your feedback.

Marcus


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Re: [DOWNLOAD][PROPOSAL] How to download another version than offered in the green box?

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 05/26/2014 10:25 AM, schrieb Jürgen Schmidt:

On 23/05/14 22:23, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 05/20/2014 09:55 PM, schrieb Marcus (OOo):

Am 05/20/2014 09:27 AM, schrieb Jürgen Schmidt:

On 19/05/14 20:58, Marcus (OOo) wrote:

Am 05/19/2014 09:11 AM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

This weekend just a little update as I was not able to do more work
(healthy problem):
http://ooo-site.staging.apache.org/download/test/index_droplist.html


It's nice! I would say it's almost done. It works correctly for me.


Thanks.

I got the chance to test on different browsers on Windows 7:

- Firefox -->  All looks fine, working as expected

- IE 10 -->  All looks fine, working as expected

- Chrome -->  No text in DL links but they work OK,
incomplete text in sub-green,
no links besides the both little icons,
doesn't change when different items were chosen

- Opera -->  No text in DL links but they work OK,
incomplete text in sub-green,
no links besides the both little icons,
doesn't change when different items were chosen

And I've no clue for now how it looks like on Firefox and Safari on
OS X.


mmh, the drop down boxes have still different height and look not so
good on Firefox

http://people.apache.org/~jsc/test/Firefox_downloadbox.png


That's strange as with Firefox on Windows and Linux it's fine.


And Safari has of course other problems with the button below the boxes
http://people.apache.org/~jsc/test/Safari_downloadbox.png


That looks quite similar to what I've seen with Chrome and Opera.

Therefore hopefully the same root cause.


I think, it was the same. I've changed one thing in the JS to output the
text. And now it works.

Tested (via Browsershots.org) with Firefox, Chrome, Safari, Opera on
Linux, Windows, Mac.

Unfortunately, there was no IE available. Can someone of you test this
please?



it looks now ok on Firefox on Mac


thanks, that's good to know as I have no idea why this could be 
different with Firefox on Linux and Mac.


Marcus


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Re: How to update, commit and publish only a single file/directory? [WAS: Re: need wiki help]

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 05/19/2014 09:17 PM, schrieb Marcus (OOo):

Am 05/19/2014 09:51 AM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:

On 29/04/2014 Marcus (OOo) wrote:

The main point is *where you are* in the CMS Browse View when you click
on the "Update" link.


I tried several times, but I'm not sure it works for me. Maybe it works
if we see "update" as "update this directory".


Example to update and publish only a file:
1. In your browser open, e.g.,
"www.openoffice.org/my-dir/my-subdir/index.html".
2. Open the CMS via the bookmarklet.
3. Click on the link "[Edit]" in the row of the "index.html" file.
4. Click on the link "[Update]".
5. Do your changes in the file.
6. Commit your changes.
7. On the following page click on the link "[Publish]".


In the last days I tried to do this for the main index.html page and for
the download/devbuilds.html page. I commit to SVN directly (so I don't
use the CMS for editing pages), but the rest works as you describe. So I
browse to download/ in the CMS and when I update it downloads my changed
devbuilds.html page and nothing else. But then, when I publish, if I


Then you have update the *complete directory* but *not the single file*.

OK, I'll do it again:

1. Open w.oo.o/index.html
2. Login via CMS bookmarklet
3. Click on [Edit] in the row for "index.html"
4. Click on [Update] on the top
5. Only this file was updated
6.

click "View diff" I see all the changes in "download".

So maybe committing through SVN means that I'm forced to update the
directory, and thus if I change the main index.html file I must publish
the whole site, and if I change devbuilds.html I must publish the whole
subtree (download/) containing it? In that setup, indeed I wasn't able
to find a command like "Update this file only".


No, SVN is outside of this. I do it like you. It's like I wrote on the top:

The main point is *where you are* in the CMS Browse View when you click
on the "Update" link.

That means:
When you are in a directory, e.g., "download/" and click on "Update"
then you get every new thing of this directory.

But when a single file, e.g., "devbuild.html" is shown and you click on
the "Update" link then only this file is updated and nothing else.

Please can you try it and confirm?


had you already a chance to retry?

Thanks

Marcus


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Hagar Delest]

Top posting.

What a very interesting discussion!

For the record, the link to the German forum is in the Survival Guide of the forum 
since quite the beginning: 
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=166#p716

I agree, we should add the link on the landing page (which has still an old logo BTW). 
Adding something like "(3rd party)" would be fine.

We had already asked the German moderators (a long time ago) if they were 
interested in joining the EN and the other locales. But they declined so we 
never asked again since.

Note that the independence of the (EN) forum is a basic that was agreed on from 
the very beginning. LibO is still in the banner. The orientation depends a lot 
on the contributors. On the EN forum, there are much more AOO users than LibO 
but it doesn't mean that we don't reply LibO questions.
We raised this point (support for AOO vs. LibO) once among Volunteers and the 
conclusion was that for the moment, the code was similar enough between both 
suites and it was relevant to reply both types of questions.

Hagar


Le 26/05/2014 13:24, Andrea Pescetti a écrit :


Jörg Schmidt wrote:

I suggest on the website https://forum.openoffice.org/ the following text to 
add:
"DE  es gibt es bisher kein deutschsprachiges Unterforum, wir empfehlen die Nutzung 
des externen deutschen Forums http://de.openoffice.info";
(translation: "DE there is so far no German speaking sub-forum, we recommend the use 
of the external German Forum http://de.openoffice.info";)


I must clarify what I wrote. I meant it's fine to link to third-party resources 
from the DE website, I didn't have the forum homepage in mind; and I now see 
that indeed this is done at
http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html reachable from the DE homepage after 
clicking on the support option.

So, without adding any new external links, I'd recommend we do the following 
instead: edit https://forum.openoffice.org/ so that it has the additional 
record (to be translated to German):
DE - Third party forums in German
and it links to
http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html
where you can give more explanations if needed, or rearrange the listing or 
whatever.


*If there was no opposition in the next 3 days, I will carry out the proposed 
changes.*


You can't change https://forum.openoffice.org/ since that homepage (a plain 
HTML/PHP file) is maintained directly on the forum servers. Anyway, since it's 
just a text+link performing the change is not so bad once we have agreement.


On http://de.openoffice.info many years we have clearly identified that there 
is an independent forum:


The official forum is "independent" too, in the sense that it offers support 
for OpenOffice and derivatives (it's in the forum header, just open 
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/ ) without making preferences: users are equal.

Two things that are not covered here are:
- as I wrote yesterday, we'll need to discuss trademarks usage on 
openoffice.info (this is also a reason why I'm opposing that we add a direct 
link from the Forum homepage to that specific third-party service); this can be 
addressed later and on the appropriate channels.
- a possible migration so that the two forums are hosted on the same platform: 
if on one side you don't need help with PHPBB administration, on the other side 
the official forum may use some system administration help! So there are still 
some gains in joining efforts.

Regards,
   Andrea.

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Hagar Delest [mailto:hagar.del...@laposte.net] 

> For the record, the link to the German forum is in the 
> Survival Guide of the forum since quite the beginning: 
> https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=166#p716
> 
> I agree, we should add the link on the landing page (which 
> has still an old logo BTW). Adding something like "(3rd 
> party)" would be fine.
> 
> We had already asked the German moderators (a long time ago) 

I am one of the moderators and that since about 2005, no one has asked me. 

And my position is clear: the forum is independent and will remain so.
"independently" means independent from other projects. 
We are not part of OOo, not of LO and not of AOO, we are just software users to
each other answer questions, and that works well for 10 years and it will stay. 
 

I do not understand the problem, I made a proposal, this proposal has been
criticized, and because it was about "Lazy Consensus" that is my proposal is
rejected. That's no problem for me, that's only a matter of different opinions 
and
that is okay. 

However, it is not the topic here to discuss what external forums want, just as 
we
have to discuss here what rules apply for wikipedia. 


Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: How to update, commit and publish only a single file/directory? [WAS: Re: need wiki help]

[Andrea Pescetti]

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

But when a single file, e.g., "devbuild.html" is shown and you click on
the "Update" link then only this file is updated and nothing else.
Please can you try it and confirm?

had you already a chance to retry?


I believe Joe made it clear that this won't work either. To be precise, 
I read his mail in this discussion as "when you publish, you always 
publish the whole thing" since we have one workspace per user (and this 
would be OK as per your interpretation/instructions), but after 
committing things go to one staging server (a single server shared among 
everybody, so my changes and your changes get mixed there already) and 
publishing will copy pages from that single staging server to the single 
production server.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Hagar Delest]

It was only my opinion about adding a link for German users, that's all.
Now, if you think that it's not worth the energy discussing this, no problem, 
let's forget about that.
NB: I did not give my opinion to speak for other forums, it was for German 
users who may come to the landing page and could think that there is no DE 
forum.

I guess that you were not one of the moderators contacted by the EN forum, I 
can look for the details if needed.

Well, since I don't have any influence on the landing page anyway, I'll leave 
this discussion as it is.

Hagar

Le 26/05/2014 22:26, Jörg Schmidt a écrit :


From: Hagar Delest [mailto:hagar.del...@laposte.net]



For the record, the link to the German forum is in the
Survival Guide of the forum since quite the beginning:
https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=166#p716

I agree, we should add the link on the landing page (which
has still an old logo BTW). Adding something like "(3rd
party)" would be fine.

We had already asked the German moderators (a long time ago)


I am one of the moderators and that since about 2005, no one has asked me.

And my position is clear: the forum is independent and will remain so.
"independently" means independent from other projects.
We are not part of OOo, not of LO and not of AOO, we are just software users to
each other answer questions, and that works well for 10 years and it will stay.

I do not understand the problem, I made a proposal, this proposal has been
criticized, and because it was about "Lazy Consensus" that is my proposal is
rejected. That's no problem for me, that's only a matter of different opinions 
and
that is okay.

However, it is not the topic here to discuss what external forums want, just as 
we
have to discuss here what rules apply for wikipedia.


Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

Hello, 

> From: Hagar Delest [mailto:hagar.del...@laposte.net] 
> Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 10:39 PM
> To: dev@openoffice.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum
> 
> It was only my opinion about adding a link for German users, 
> that's all.
> Now, if you think that it's not worth the energy discussing 
> this, no problem, let's forget about that.

Sorry, I think this is a misunderstanding. A link would be good, but _only_ a
link. 
I myself have even asked for a link (or wanted to insert itself) but I've got a
discussion on the takeover of the forum. 

If there is a way to make a link, then we should follow the suggestion from
Andrea:

> So, without adding any new external links, I'd recommend we do the 
> following instead: edit https://forum.openoffice.org/ so that 
> it has the 
> additional record (to be translated to German):
> DE - Third party forums in German
> and it links to
> http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html

I'd like that, I would agree. Is this technically possible?

The translation of: 

"DE - Third party forums in German"

is:

"DE - deutschsprachige Foren von Drittanbietern"

with a link to:
http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html

I would then itself the site: 
http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html 

update, and there clearly mark there are third party forums.


Is this a way we can go?




Greetings,
Jörg


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Andrea Pescetti]

Hagar Delest wrote:

I agree, we should add the link on the landing page (which has still an
old logo BTW). Adding something like "(3rd party)" would be fine.


OK. So can someone tell us the best way to write
"Third party forums in German"
in German? Then if nobody opposes this we implement this solution (and 
the link goes to http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html that 
German-speaking volunteers can easily edit in German).


Joerg, it must be clear (and I agree: this is not clear to everybody) 
that consensus decisions do not work as a yes/no decisions. The typical 
process is:
- there is a problem (and the problem in your case is clear: we point 
all users at forum.openoffice.org as the main support resource, but a 
German-speaking user won't find anything useful on that page)

- someone, in this case you, proposes a solution
- the discussion can show that the solution should be a different one, 
but this doesn't remove the problem!
- we explore different solutions that can be better in our case, and 
this is what I'm proposing above
- in the end, our aim is to solve the problems, not to leave them 
unsolved since we don't get consensus on the first proposed solution.



We had already asked the German moderators (a long time ago) if they
were interested in joining the EN and the other locales. But they
declined so we never asked again since.


OK, we now made it clear that this is a possibility. It seems there's no 
interest now, but if there interest in future we can come back to this.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: How to update, commit and publish only a single file/directory? [WAS: Re: need wiki help]

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 05/26/2014 10:34 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:

Marcus (OOo) wrote:

But when a single file, e.g., "devbuild.html" is shown and you click on
the "Update" link then only this file is updated and nothing else.
Please can you try it and confirm?

had you already a chance to retry?


I believe Joe made it clear that this won't work either. To be precise,


then it must be a bug because it's working for me. ;-)


I read his mail in this discussion as "when you publish, you always
publish the whole thing" since we have one workspace per user (and this
would be OK as per your interpretation/instructions), but after
committing things go to one staging server (a single server shared among
everybody, so my changes and your changes get mixed there already) and
publishing will copy pages from that single staging server to the single
production server.


Sorry, I still can edit, update and publish a single file.

What's the problem to try again on your side?

Marcus


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Andrea Pescetti]

FR web forum wrote:

In other way, if we propose to create a new NL forum, can we do it?
One year ago, we should have a Portugese forum:
https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@openoffice.apache.org/msg06330.html
As yet nothing has been done.


If there is still demand for it (I'm not sure about this) this is 
feasible. The issue here is: typically, from a system administration 
point of view, we would want to consolidate what we already have before 
adding new pieces.


The MWiki system is now in reasonably good shape (the content, instead, 
needs a lot of work). For the Forum the opposite is true: on the system 
administration side we do something from time to time, but we haven't 
completed the steps to have a solid foundation yet (volunteers welcome); 
the content side instead is working perfectly, with many volunteers 
answering questions and moderating posts.


Regards,
  Andrea.

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Andrea Pescetti]

Jörg Schmidt wrote:

The translation of:
"DE - Third party forums in German"
is:
"DE - deutschsprachige Foren von Drittanbietern"
with a link to:
http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html
I would then itself the site:
http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html
update, and there clearly mark there are third party forums.
Is this a way we can go?


Sure. +1 from me (obviously).

And just ignore my other mail, we wrote the same thing in the same minute.

Andrea

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] 

> Joerg, it must be clear (and I agree: this is not clear to everybody) 
> that consensus decisions do not work as a yes/no decisions. 

> Did Consensus Decisions do not work as a yes / no Decisions. 

yes, that's clear to me I have read the site: 
http://rave.apache.org/docs/governance/lazyConsensus.html 

But let me tell you the consequence that I see: 

If there is no concensus, even after we have discussed, then you could please
vote: 
http://rave.apache.org/docs/governance/consensusBuilding.html 

but ... I do _not must_ have to ask and if I do not do it, then the problem
remains unsolved.

What I'm saying is the "Lazy Consensus" is a way if someone wants to do 
something
specific, then he gets no consent is and there are other opinions, then a other 
is
not automatically does the work.

I hope that's right?


> - there is a problem (and the problem in your case is clear: we point 
> all users at forum.openoffice.org as the main support resource, but a 
> German-speaking user won't find anything useful on that page)

Yes, i agree

> - someone, in this case you, proposes a solution
> - the discussion can show that the solution should be a 
> different one, 
> but this doesn't remove the problem!

Yes

> - we explore different solutions that can be better in our case, and 
> this is what I'm proposing above

yes, you did, but there is one detail: the AOO community can not decide what to 
do
an external forum, and as I see it would have been necessary because you said:

"- a possible migration so that the two forums are hosted on the same 
Platform ..."

But this is not my interest, I just want to temporarily create a hyperlink to 
the
external forum until we have a German-language forum at AOO. 

What can I say to explain: 
Please respect that the external forum does not want to be part of another
project. This is not a decision forever, but it is the decision for now.


Greetings,
Jörg



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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

 
> From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pesce...@apache.org] 

> Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> > The translation of:
> > "DE - Third party forums in German"
> > is:
> > "DE - deutschsprachige Foren von Drittanbietern"
> > with a link to:
> > http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html
> > I would then itself the site:
> > http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html
> > update, and there clearly mark there are third party forums.
> > Is this a way we can go?
> 
> Sure. +1 from me (obviously).

Thanks, fine

> And just ignore my other mail, we wrote the same thing in the 
> same minute.

and now I have already written an answer, you do _not must_ read it ;-)

Gretings,
Jörg


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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Marcus (OOo)]

Am 05/26/2014 11:30 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:

Jörg Schmidt wrote:

The translation of:
"DE - Third party forums in German"
is:
"DE - deutschsprachige Foren von Drittanbietern"
with a link to:
http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html
I would then itself the site:
http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html
update, and there clearly mark there are third party forums.
Is this a way we can go?


Sure. +1 from me (obviously).

And just ignore my other mail, we wrote the same thing in the same minute.


I would also agree on this. Too bad that Joerg has cancelled his 
suggestion. :-P


IMHO things about trademark, logo, etc. could be discussed (and 
corrected if needed) later as a) the forum is obvious operated in noble 
intension, b) it's non-profit and c) there is at least an indirect 
connection to AOO via Joerg as moderator.


Marcus


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questions about crash reporting, error report tool

[Kay Schenk]

Looking at current configure options, and what we've setup on buildbots,
it seems the Crash Reporter referenced in this wiki page:

https://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/CrashReporting

is no longer a default in our binaries?

Is this correct?

Is this the same thing that's called the "Error Report Tool" in the
application help?

The last discussion I could find about this:
http://markmail.org/message/dfkrazjvie3gv4cq

-- 
-
MzK

"Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and
 the word  happy would lose its meaning if it were not
 balanced by sadness.  It is far better (to) take things as they come
 along  with patience and  equanimity."
-- Carl Jung

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Kay Schenk]

On 05/26/2014 02:44 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote:
> Am 05/26/2014 11:30 PM, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
>> Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>>> The translation of:
>>> "DE - Third party forums in German"
>>> is:
>>> "DE - deutschsprachige Foren von Drittanbietern"
>>> with a link to:
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html
>>> I would then itself the site:
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/de/foren.html
>>> update, and there clearly mark there are third party forums.
>>> Is this a way we can go?
>>
>> Sure. +1 from me (obviously).
>>
>> And just ignore my other mail, we wrote the same thing in the same
>> minute.
> 
> I would also agree on this. Too bad that Joerg has cancelled his
> suggestion. :-P
> 
> IMHO things about trademark, logo, etc. could be discussed (and
> corrected if needed) later as a) the forum is obvious operated in noble
> intension, b) it's non-profit and c) there is at least an indirect
> connection to AOO via Joerg as moderator.
> 
> Marcus
> 
> 

This seems like a good compromise to me also.

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> 

-- 
-
MzK

"Even a happy life cannot be without a measure of darkness, and
 the word  happy would lose its meaning if it were not
 balanced by sadness.  It is far better (to) take things as they come
 along  with patience and  equanimity."
-- Carl Jung

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Re: [Lazy Consensus] link to a german forum

[Jörg Schmidt]

> From: Marcus (OOo) [mailto:marcus.m...@wtnet.de] 

> > And just ignore my other mail, we wrote the same thing in 
> the same minute.
> 
> I would also agree on this. Too bad that Joerg has cancelled his 
> suggestion. :-P

I think Jörg is sometimes a little hasty ... I may say so because I am Jörg ;-)

> IMHO things about trademark, logo, etc. could be discussed (and 
> corrected if needed) later as a) the forum is obvious 
> operated in noble 
> intension, b) it's non-profit and c) there is at least an indirect 
> connection to AOO via Joerg as moderator.

yes, no problem 

Please only respects the use of the domain. Please respect that many people, 
more
than 10 years and many thousands of hours of free time invested to make the 
forum
what it is. 

Please respect our philosophy that we are open to all programs (OOo, AOO, LO,
StarOffice, Neo-Office, etc.) and we do not want to decide unilaterally us. This
is not a decision against Apache or TDF or others, but it's just a decision for
our independence.

Juergen is exactly right with: 

"... But well it exists 
seeking for a long time and as long it is not misused."


Greetings,
Jörg


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