Re: [VOTE] Create separate Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3

[Taras Ledkov]

+1

On 05.10.2021 2:52, Valentin Kulichenko wrote:

Hello Community,

As discussed in [1], I would like to propose the creation of a separate
Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3.

Ignite 2 and Ignite 3 are developed in parallel in separate repos, so we
need a clear separation in other tools as well - this will help to
streamline the development process. Please refer to the discussion for more
details.

[1]
https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rdcad3fc64b9f3a848c93089baae2bee1124a97869a94f4a04dd80fdf%40%3Cdev.ignite.apache.org%3E

Voting options:

- +1 - Agree with the suggestion
- 0 - Don't care much about the suggestion
- -1 - Disagree with the suggestion

This is a majority vote.

Voting ends in 72 hours, at 5pm PDT on October 7:
https://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&iso=20211007T17&year=2021&month=10&day=7&hour=17&min=0&sec=0&p0=224

-Val


--
Taras Ledkov
Mail-To: tled...@gridgain.com

Re: [VOTE] Create separate Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3

[ткаленко кирилл]

+1

05.10.2021, 02:52, "Valentin Kulichenko" :
> Hello Community,
>
> As discussed in [1], I would like to propose the creation of a separate
> Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3.
>
> Ignite 2 and Ignite 3 are developed in parallel in separate repos, so we
> need a clear separation in other tools as well - this will help to
> streamline the development process. Please refer to the discussion for more
> details.
>
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rdcad3fc64b9f3a848c93089baae2bee1124a97869a94f4a04dd80fdf%40%3Cdev.ignite.apache.org%3E
>
> Voting options:
>
>    - +1 - Agree with the suggestion
>    - 0 - Don't care much about the suggestion
>    - -1 - Disagree with the suggestion
>
> This is a majority vote.
>
> Voting ends in 72 hours, at 5pm PDT on October 7:
> https://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&iso=20211007T17&year=2021&month=10&day=7&hour=17&min=0&sec=0&p0=224
>
> -Val

Re: Migration of CacheSpringStoreSessionListener to ignite-extensions

[Nikita Amelchev]

Mikhail,

+1 to migrate and include to the ignite-spring-tx 1.0.0, Ignite 2.12 scopes

Please, create an issue.

пн, 4 окт. 2021 г. в 18:51, Mikhail Petrov :
>
> Igniters, I propose to migrate CacheSpringStoreSessionListener to
> ignite-extensions in the ignite-spring-tx module as part of Spring
> Transactions integration migration. It also helps to
> 1. Make the ignite-spring module responsible only for parsing XML
> configurations.
> 2. Reduce the number of dependencies that the ignite-spring module
> relies on to just spring-context.
>
> PRs with the migration - [1] and [2].
>
> Any objections?
>
> [1]  - https://github.com/apache/ignite-extensions/pull/74
> [2] -  https://github.com/apache/ignite/pull/9467
>
> --
> Mikhail
>


-- 
Best wishes,
Amelchev Nikita

Re: [DISCUSSION] Separate Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3

[Ivan Pavlukhin]

Sorry, If I missed something in the thread but in case of a separate
JIRA project how are users supposed to create e.g. bug tickets? How
can we make sure that users will not use a wrong JIRA project often?

2021-10-05 2:50 GMT+03:00, Valentin Kulichenko :
> Ivan,
>
> I'm not pushing, I'm trying to apply the lazy consensus. It soon will be a
> whole month since I've started the discussion - more than enough to express
> concerns and provide alternative suggestions. Please keep in mind that we
> are trying to address a very specific technical problem that influences the
> development. "Do nothing" is not really an option here.
>
> Either way, I will put the initial suggestion for the vote.
>
> -Val
>
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 12:24 AM Ivan Pavlukhin 
> wrote:
>
>> Val,
>>
>> > Let's discuss this until the end of the week. If there is no clear
>> picture on option #2 by then, I suggest we go with #1.
>>
>> For a moment I felt that the proposal is pushed. Let's not do so. The
>> subject is very important, years impact I suppose. And the best way
>> here is to reach absolute consensus. Without tight timelines so far.
>> In case if we fail with consensus we can arrange formal voting.
>>
>> 2021-09-29 14:34 GMT+03:00, Petr Ivanov :
>> > I am watching how Apache Ignite does evolve for over a 3 years already
>> and
>> > see that such hidden (almost no Open Source Community points could be
>> > achieved for refactoring and addressing something that is not directly
>> > project's source executable code) issues drown under constant pressure
>> > of
>> > new features and releases.
>> >
>> > I have never created issues for Maven build refactoring (for instanced)
>> > because I understand that 1) it is almost impossible for current tech
>> debt
>> > already accumulated and 2) to won't be welcomed by community because of
>> > indirect relationship to main project's goals.
>> > Considering other parts, please, note [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6],
>> > [7],
>> [8]
>> > and many many more issues that have no separate ticket.
>> >
>> > My point — such technical debt is overwhelming and will be never ever
>> > approached.
>> > That is one of the reasons why Ignite 3 being built from scratch,
>> > having
>> in
>> > mind all mistakes we've already made and lots of errors we will never
>> > do
>> > just because there would be no legacy basic for that.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-7190
>> > [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-7326
>> > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-7672
>> > [4] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-8496
>> > [5] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-9866
>> > [6] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-10600
>> > [7] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-10683
>> > [8] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-10696
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 29 Sep 2021, at 14:14, Nikolay Izhikov  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> — issues related to Maven build? possible Gradle upgrade?
>> >>
>> >> I’m not aware of the issues.
>> >> Can you, please, send a tickets or description of existing issues?
>> >> Anyway, it seems change of build tool can be done at any time we want
>> >>
>> >>> — issues related to run scripts?
>> >>> — issues related to release and delivery processes and scripts?
>> >>
>> >> I’m not aware of those too.
>> >> Can you point to then, please?
>> >>
>> >>> Are they going to be addressed during Apache Ignite evolution too?
>> >>
>> >> Yes, from my point of view.
>> >>
>> >>> 29 сент. 2021 г., в 14:03, Petr Ivanov 
>> написал(а):
>> >>>
>> >>> And what about:
>> >>> — issues related to Maven build? possible Gradle upgrade?
>> >>> — issues related to run scripts?
>> >>> — issues related to release and delivery processes and scripts?
>> >>>
>> >>> Are they going to be addressed during Apache Ignite evolution too?
>> >>>
>>  On 29 Sep 2021, at 13:47, Nikolay Izhikov 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> > Does you vision of evolutionary improvement involve technical debt
>> > addressing
>> 
>>  Yes, of course.
>> 
>>  My vision was the following (from the bird eye):
>> 
>>  - 2.20 - removals of LOCAL caches, MVCC and other abandoned
>>  features.
>>  (User API doesn’t change).
>>  - 2.30 - replace static XML configuration with the new dynamic
>>  approach.
>>  - 2.40 - replace H2 SQL engine with the Calcite
>> 
>>  etc.
>> 
>>  Versions depends on feature readiness.
>> 
>>  Anyway, I step back with the initial Ignite3 development, because,
>> don’t
>>  want to interfere the progress.
>> 
>>  Respect to the developers who have courage to develop such complex
>>  things from scratch.
>> 
>> > 29 сент. 2021 г., в 12:55, Petr Ivanov 
>> > написал(а):
>> >
>> >
>> >> I believe that we should improve Ignite evolutionary and not
>> >> revolutionary.
>> >> First of all, change user API with the slow improvements step by

Re: [VOTE] Create separate Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3

[Ivan Pavlukhin]

0 from me.

> Voting ends in 72 hours, at 5pm PDT on October 7:

I suggest to prolong voting at least till the end of the week. I see
no reason to have such limited timeframe. Whole week including a
weekend will allow more people to cast votes.

2021-10-05 10:06 GMT+03:00, ткаленко кирилл :
> +1
>
> 05.10.2021, 02:52, "Valentin Kulichenko" :
>> Hello Community,
>>
>> As discussed in [1], I would like to propose the creation of a separate
>> Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3.
>>
>> Ignite 2 and Ignite 3 are developed in parallel in separate repos, so we
>> need a clear separation in other tools as well - this will help to
>> streamline the development process. Please refer to the discussion for
>> more
>> details.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rdcad3fc64b9f3a848c93089baae2bee1124a97869a94f4a04dd80fdf%40%3Cdev.ignite.apache.org%3E
>>
>> Voting options:
>>
>>    - +1 - Agree with the suggestion
>>    - 0 - Don't care much about the suggestion
>>    - -1 - Disagree with the suggestion
>>
>> This is a majority vote.
>>
>> Voting ends in 72 hours, at 5pm PDT on October 7:
>> https://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&iso=20211007T17&year=2021&month=10&day=7&hour=17&min=0&sec=0&p0=224
>>
>> -Val
>


-- 

Best regards,
Ivan Pavlukhin

Re: [VOTE] Create separate Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3

[Nikita Amelchev]

+1

вт, 5 окт. 2021 г. в 11:41, Ivan Pavlukhin :
>
> 0 from me.
>
> > Voting ends in 72 hours, at 5pm PDT on October 7:
>
> I suggest to prolong voting at least till the end of the week. I see
> no reason to have such limited timeframe. Whole week including a
> weekend will allow more people to cast votes.
>
> 2021-10-05 10:06 GMT+03:00, ткаленко кирилл :
> > +1
> >
> > 05.10.2021, 02:52, "Valentin Kulichenko" :
> >> Hello Community,
> >>
> >> As discussed in [1], I would like to propose the creation of a separate
> >> Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3.
> >>
> >> Ignite 2 and Ignite 3 are developed in parallel in separate repos, so we
> >> need a clear separation in other tools as well - this will help to
> >> streamline the development process. Please refer to the discussion for
> >> more
> >> details.
> >>
> >> [1]
> >> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rdcad3fc64b9f3a848c93089baae2bee1124a97869a94f4a04dd80fdf%40%3Cdev.ignite.apache.org%3E
> >>
> >> Voting options:
> >>
> >>- +1 - Agree with the suggestion
> >>- 0 - Don't care much about the suggestion
> >>- -1 - Disagree with the suggestion
> >>
> >> This is a majority vote.
> >>
> >> Voting ends in 72 hours, at 5pm PDT on October 7:
> >> https://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&iso=20211007T17&year=2021&month=10&day=7&hour=17&min=0&sec=0&p0=224
> >>
> >> -Val
> >
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
> Ivan Pavlukhin



-- 
Best wishes,
Amelchev Nikita

Re: [DISCUSS] Release spring-tx-ext and spring-cache-ext Ignite extensions

[Nikita Amelchev]

Folks, we should release the spring-data-commons module with the 1.1.0
version to release spring-tx, spring-cache modules.
It contains some proxies required for the new modules.

I suggest:

1. Release the spring-data-commons 1.1.0, spring-tx 1.0.0,
spring-cache 1.0.0 modules with separate source packages:

/ignite/ignite-extensions/ignite-spring-data-commons/1.1.0/[src]
/ignite/ignite-extensions/ignite-spring-tx-ext/1.0.0/[src]
/ignite/ignite-extensions/ignite-spring-cache-ext/1.0.0/[src]

(The spring-data-commons 1.0.0 was included in the
ignite-spring-data-all-ext/1.0.0 source package)

2. Use one voting thread for this activity.

Any objections?

пт, 24 сент. 2021 г. в 15:14, Nikita Amelchev :
>
> Igniters,
>
> Since Ignite 2.11 has been released the following extension modules
> can be released too:
>
> spring-cache-ext
> spring-tx-ext
>
> I want to be a release manager for these if nobody minds.
>
> The release process can be started after checking documentation.
>
> --
> Best wishes,
> Amelchev Nikita



-- 
Best wishes,
Amelchev Nikita

Re: Migration of CacheSpringStoreSessionListener to ignite-extensions

[Ivan Daschinsky]

+1 As for me. It is pretty weird that this few lines of code depend on full
spring :)

вт, 5 окт. 2021 г. в 11:24, Nikita Amelchev :

> Mikhail,
>
> +1 to migrate and include to the ignite-spring-tx 1.0.0, Ignite 2.12 scopes
>
> Please, create an issue.
>
> пн, 4 окт. 2021 г. в 18:51, Mikhail Petrov :
> >
> > Igniters, I propose to migrate CacheSpringStoreSessionListener to
> > ignite-extensions in the ignite-spring-tx module as part of Spring
> > Transactions integration migration. It also helps to
> > 1. Make the ignite-spring module responsible only for parsing XML
> > configurations.
> > 2. Reduce the number of dependencies that the ignite-spring module
> > relies on to just spring-context.
> >
> > PRs with the migration - [1] and [2].
> >
> > Any objections?
> >
> > [1]  - https://github.com/apache/ignite-extensions/pull/74
> > [2] -  https://github.com/apache/ignite/pull/9467
> >
> > --
> > Mikhail
> >
>
>
> --
> Best wishes,
> Amelchev Nikita
>


-- 
Sincerely yours, Ivan Daschinskiy

Re: [VOTE] Create separate Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3

[Petr Ivanov]

+1

> On 5 Oct 2021, at 02:52, Valentin Kulichenko  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Community,
> 
> As discussed in [1], I would like to propose the creation of a separate
> Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3.
> 
> Ignite 2 and Ignite 3 are developed in parallel in separate repos, so we
> need a clear separation in other tools as well - this will help to
> streamline the development process. Please refer to the discussion for more
> details.
> 
> [1]
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rdcad3fc64b9f3a848c93089baae2bee1124a97869a94f4a04dd80fdf%40%3Cdev.ignite.apache.org%3E
> 
> Voting options:
> 
>   - +1 - Agree with the suggestion
>   - 0 - Don't care much about the suggestion
>   - -1 - Disagree with the suggestion
> 
> This is a majority vote.
> 
> Voting ends in 72 hours, at 5pm PDT on October 7:
> https://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&iso=20211007T17&year=2021&month=10&day=7&hour=17&min=0&sec=0&p0=224
> 
> -Val

Re: [VOTE] Create separate Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3

[Юрий]

+1

вт, 5 окт. 2021 г. в 02:52, Valentin Kulichenko <
valentin.kuliche...@gmail.com>:

> Hello Community,
>
> As discussed in [1], I would like to propose the creation of a separate
> Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3.
>
> Ignite 2 and Ignite 3 are developed in parallel in separate repos, so we
> need a clear separation in other tools as well - this will help to
> streamline the development process. Please refer to the discussion for more
> details.
>
> [1]
>
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rdcad3fc64b9f3a848c93089baae2bee1124a97869a94f4a04dd80fdf%40%3Cdev.ignite.apache.org%3E
>
> Voting options:
>
>- +1 - Agree with the suggestion
>- 0 - Don't care much about the suggestion
>- -1 - Disagree with the suggestion
>
> This is a majority vote.
>
> Voting ends in 72 hours, at 5pm PDT on October 7:
>
> https://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&iso=20211007T17&year=2021&month=10&day=7&hour=17&min=0&sec=0&p0=224
>
> -Val
>


-- 
Живи с улыбкой! :D

Re: [VOTE] Create separate Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3

[Andrey Mashenkov]

+1

вт, 5 окт. 2021 г., 13:33 Юрий :

> +1
>
> вт, 5 окт. 2021 г. в 02:52, Valentin Kulichenko <
> valentin.kuliche...@gmail.com>:
>
> > Hello Community,
> >
> > As discussed in [1], I would like to propose the creation of a separate
> > Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3.
> >
> > Ignite 2 and Ignite 3 are developed in parallel in separate repos, so we
> > need a clear separation in other tools as well - this will help to
> > streamline the development process. Please refer to the discussion for
> more
> > details.
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rdcad3fc64b9f3a848c93089baae2bee1124a97869a94f4a04dd80fdf%40%3Cdev.ignite.apache.org%3E
> >
> > Voting options:
> >
> >- +1 - Agree with the suggestion
> >- 0 - Don't care much about the suggestion
> >- -1 - Disagree with the suggestion
> >
> > This is a majority vote.
> >
> > Voting ends in 72 hours, at 5pm PDT on October 7:
> >
> >
> https://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&iso=20211007T17&year=2021&month=10&day=7&hour=17&min=0&sec=0&p0=224
> >
> > -Val
> >
>
>
> --
> Живи с улыбкой! :D
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Release spring-tx-ext and spring-cache-ext Ignite extensions

[Nikolay Izhikov]

+1

> 5 окт. 2021 г., в 11:48, Nikita Amelchev  написал(а):
> 
> Folks, we should release the spring-data-commons module with the 1.1.0
> version to release spring-tx, spring-cache modules.
> It contains some proxies required for the new modules.
> 
> I suggest:
> 
> 1. Release the spring-data-commons 1.1.0, spring-tx 1.0.0,
> spring-cache 1.0.0 modules with separate source packages:
> 
> /ignite/ignite-extensions/ignite-spring-data-commons/1.1.0/[src]
> /ignite/ignite-extensions/ignite-spring-tx-ext/1.0.0/[src]
> /ignite/ignite-extensions/ignite-spring-cache-ext/1.0.0/[src]
> 
> (The spring-data-commons 1.0.0 was included in the
> ignite-spring-data-all-ext/1.0.0 source package)
> 
> 2. Use one voting thread for this activity.
> 
> Any objections?
> 
> пт, 24 сент. 2021 г. в 15:14, Nikita Amelchev :
>> 
>> Igniters,
>> 
>> Since Ignite 2.11 has been released the following extension modules
>> can be released too:
>> 
>> spring-cache-ext
>> spring-tx-ext
>> 
>> I want to be a release manager for these if nobody minds.
>> 
>> The release process can be started after checking documentation.
>> 
>> --
>> Best wishes,
>> Amelchev Nikita
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best wishes,
> Amelchev Nikita

Re: Running TCBot across a PR

[Raymond Wilson]

Thanks Ed. I will keep that in mind.

On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 4:05 AM Eduard Rakhmankulov 
wrote:

> Hi Raymond!
>
> Please try to `re-run possible blockers`, TCBot UI has that button on the
> right top on your PR's page.
>
> Usually one retry is enough, else need to investigate why tests are failing
> (the ones TCBot has defined as possible blockers).
> Check whether those tests are failing in master, in that case write about
> it in JIRA ticket.
>
> Best regards, Ed.
>
> On Thu, 30 Sept 2021 at 00:45, Raymond Wilson 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Pavel,
> >
> > Thanks for the direction.
> >
> > I created the account and have run the TCBot build and added the comment
> to
> > the Jira ticket.
> >
> > There seem to be a lot of failing tests, though I suspect they are mostly
> > flapping/unstable tests rather than failures due to the change in the PR,
> > but the TCBot build has flagged four possible blockers. I'm not sure how
> to
> > evaluate those in the context of the change...
> >
> > I have also noted you as a reviewer.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Raymond.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 7:35 PM Pavel Tupitsyn 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Raymond,
> > >
> > > 1. Please register an account on TeamCity (ci.ignite.apache.org),
> you'll
> > > be
> > > able to start builds right away.
> > > 2. Login with the same credentials to
> > https://mtcga.gridgain.com/prs.html
> > > and schedule a build for your PR.
> > >
> > > See
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/IGNITE/Apache+Ignite+Teamcity+Bot
> > > for more info.
> > >
> > > > I'm also not sure who to suggest for review in the Java K8s area.
> > > I can do the review once the tests pass.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pavel
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 12:47 AM Raymond Wilson <
> > > raymond_wil...@trimble.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I have created and actioned a Jira ticket (
> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/IGNITE-15602), and have a PR
> > > raised
> > > > from my fork to the main repo.
> > > >
> > > > I think I have checked all the boxes except for verifying TCBot is
> > happy
> > > > (per instruction below)
> > > >
> > > >  - [ ] The pull request has been checked by the Teamcity Bot and
> > > >the `green visa` attached to the JIRA ticket (see [TC.Bot: Check
> > PR](
> > > > https://mtcga.gridgain.com/prs.html))
> > > >
> > > > However, I don't (think I have) access to TeamCity, so I'm not sure
> how
> > > to
> > > > complete that step.
> > > >
> > > > I'm also not sure who to suggest for review in the Java K8s area.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Raymond.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > 
> > > > Raymond Wilson
> > > > Trimble Distinguished Engineer, Civil Construction Software (CCS)
> > > > 11 Birmingham Drive | Christchurch, New Zealand
> > > > raymond_wil...@trimble.com
> > > >
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://worksos.trimble.com/?utm_source=Trimble&utm_medium=emailsign&utm_campaign=Launch
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 
> > Raymond Wilson
> > Trimble Distinguished Engineer, Civil Construction Software (CCS)
> > 11 Birmingham Drive | Christchurch, New Zealand
> > raymond_wil...@trimble.com
> >
> > <
> >
> https://worksos.trimble.com/?utm_source=Trimble&utm_medium=emailsign&utm_campaign=Launch
> > >
> >
>


-- 

Raymond Wilson
Trimble Distinguished Engineer, Civil Construction Software (CCS)
11 Birmingham Drive | Christchurch, New Zealand
raymond_wil...@trimble.com

Re: [VOTE] Create separate Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3

[Maxim Muzafarov]

- 0 from me.

This is OK if the projects are different, but not OK if they are
sharing the same version history.

On Tue, 5 Oct 2021 at 13:39, Andrey Mashenkov
 wrote:
>
> +1
>
> вт, 5 окт. 2021 г., 13:33 Юрий :
>
> > +1
> >
> > вт, 5 окт. 2021 г. в 02:52, Valentin Kulichenko <
> > valentin.kuliche...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > > Hello Community,
> > >
> > > As discussed in [1], I would like to propose the creation of a separate
> > > Jira project and Confluence space for Ignite 3.
> > >
> > > Ignite 2 and Ignite 3 are developed in parallel in separate repos, so we
> > > need a clear separation in other tools as well - this will help to
> > > streamline the development process. Please refer to the discussion for
> > more
> > > details.
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > >
> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rdcad3fc64b9f3a848c93089baae2bee1124a97869a94f4a04dd80fdf%40%3Cdev.ignite.apache.org%3E
> > >
> > > Voting options:
> > >
> > >- +1 - Agree with the suggestion
> > >- 0 - Don't care much about the suggestion
> > >- -1 - Disagree with the suggestion
> > >
> > > This is a majority vote.
> > >
> > > Voting ends in 72 hours, at 5pm PDT on October 7:
> > >
> > >
> > https://www.timeanddate.com/counters/fullscreen.html?mode=a&iso=20211007T17&year=2021&month=10&day=7&hour=17&min=0&sec=0&p0=224
> > >
> > > -Val
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Живи с улыбкой! :D
> >