Re: I feel to complain again

[wojtekz]

- Original Message -
From: Runa Agate Sandvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, August 4, 2007 2:06 pm
Subject: Re: I feel to complain again
> On Sat, Aug 04, 2007 at 12:02:04PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > So, I feel to complain again, especially to changes in the 
> index.wml.
> I have no idea what you're complaining about. Care to update me?
> 

The explanation:

The last change index.wml from the CVS archive:


===
RCS file: /cvs/webwml/webwml/english/index.wml,v
retrieving revision 1.78
retrieving revision 1.79
diff -u -r1.78 -r1.79
--- webwml/english/index.wml2007/08/02 04:47:21 1.78
+++ webwml/english/index.wml2007/08/03 20:54:07 1.79
@@ -18,7 +18,7 @@
 
 Read more...
 
-
+
 
 Getting Started
 
@@ -45,7 +45,7 @@
 People who use systems other than Intel x86 should check the
 ports section.
 
-
+
 
 News
 
@@ -55,7 +55,7 @@
 If you would like to receive mail whenever new Debian news comes out,
subscribe to the
 debian-announce mailing
list.
 
-
+
 
 Security Advisories

-

There is *nothing* to translate, so, if I understand Jens'es
explanation, the person who made this change should make it for all
languages.

Regards
Wojciech


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.lebspy.com

[LebTech]

http://www.lebspy.com/
http://www.lebspy.com/forums


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: I feel to complain again

[NAGY Viktor]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
-

+
-

There is *nothing* to translate, so, if I understand Jens'es
explanation, the person who made this change should make it for all
languages.

Regards
Wojciech




I'm wondering if we have a proper plan for switching to xhtml, or this 
markup polishing is just a substitute activity -- in the sense that yes, 
we know that xhtml requires closing all elements so let's close them 
occasionally but we don't really see how and when we can switch to xhtml.


Moreover I'm wondering if it makes more sense to handle markup polishing 
globally, in the wml making process.


Viktor


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

html tags fixing in english only VS l10n on www.debian.org

[Simon Paillard]

On Sun, Aug 05, 2007 at 10:31:40AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The last change index.wml from the CVS archive:
> 
> -
> +

I would like to second this tension ...

So, to the people that fix html tags in the CVS :
* PLEASE DO IT WITH SMARTCHANGE OR BY HAND IN ALL OTHER LANGUAGES ! *

For many reasons :
* Many webpages can appear outdate to users while they are not (except
the tag fix), for example http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting.fr.html
* each of the translators will have to do the job
* in some l10n teams, there not so many people, and those webpages may
be never updated, and after a long time behind the "xhtml fixed page",
they will be deleted .. what a waste !!

So if some people have time to fix html tags ;

* as alfie already told it on IRC, doing it at the webwml would be more
efficient 

* do it for *ALL* languages and bump headers for them, or don't do it at
all, it would be counterproductive.

Thanks !


-- 
Simon Paillard


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

HTML->XHTML transition [Re: I feel to complain again]

[Richard Atterer]

On Sun, Aug 05, 2007 at 02:03:10PM +0300, NAGY Viktor wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>  -
>> +
>
> I'm wondering if we have a proper plan for switching to xhtml, or this 
> markup polishing is just a substitute activity -- in the sense that yes, we 
> know that xhtml requires closing all elements so let's close them 
> occasionally but we don't really see how and when we can switch to xhtml.

I'd like to know this too! The above change is bad IMHO because it means 
the page is *neither* valid XHTML (wrong doctype) nor valid HTML 4 strict 
(see explanation below [0]).

Jutta invested a lot of work into making the pages validate, so unless 
someone really wants to convert the entire site within the next weeks 
(including changing the doctype), such problematic changes should not be 
made!

BTW, AFAIK "" is fine for both SGML and XHTML standards-wise. (The 
W3C _recommends_ to use  in this case, but does not mandate it, see 
.) But would advocate moving to 
XHTML directly, instead of using it as a workaround.

Cheers,

  Richard


[0]:
The W3C validator will actually output that the page *is* valid HTML 4 
strict, but that is not really correct:  is not a valid SGML tag. The 
reason why the W3C validator will not flag it as an error lies in the 
ugliness of SGML. SGML supports so-called net tags, a shorthand which 
allows you to write this:
  This is the content of the paragraph.

So, to the validator the character sequence "" means "a  tag, 
whose content follows after the '/', the content being the character '>'." 
(Apparently a newline is allowed instead of the second '/'? I don't know.)

However,  is defined as having empty content, so as soon as the '>' 
following the  tag is seen, the SGML parser implicitly adds a closing 
. As a result, in SGML the characters "" are equivalent to 
">" - not what you usually mean when you write ""!! :-(

See  for a great in-depth 
explanation. However, the details are horrible, you probably don't want to 
bother trying to understand them! ;-)

Cheers,

  Richard

-- 
  __   _
  |_) /|  Richard Atterer |  GnuPG key: 888354F7
  | \/¯|  http://atterer.net  |  08A9 7B7D 3D13 3EF2 3D25  D157 79E6 F6DC 8883 
54F7
  ¯ '` ¯


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: New Developer Locations map available

[Alexander Schmehl]

* Holger Levsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070804 17:18]:
> > Without clustering the map is too slow to be usable. 
> Speaking of unusable, I'd appreciate if a png version of the map is created 
> too, as I usually have javascript disabled.

... and you can't embed google maps into your slides for a presentation
about Debian.


Yours sincerely,
  Alexander

-- 
http://learn.to/quote/
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: HTML->XHTML transition [Re: I feel to complain again]

[Bas Zoetekouw]

Hi Richard!

You wrote:

> >>  -
> >> +
> >
> > I'm wondering if we have a proper plan for switching to xhtml, or this 
> > markup polishing is just a substitute activity -- in the sense that yes, we 
> > know that xhtml requires closing all elements so let's close them 
> > occasionally but we don't really see how and when we can switch to xhtml.
> 
> I'd like to know this too! The above change is bad IMHO because it means 
> the page is *neither* valid XHTML (wrong doctype) nor valid HTML 4 strict 
> (see explanation below [0]).

No.  Have you actually looked at the pages that are produced? 
Wml automatically changes  to  unless explicitly told not to.
These changes in the original wml files do not change the resulting html
at all.

Bas.

-- 
Kind regards,
++
| Bas Zoetekouw  | GPG key: 0644fab7 |
|| Fingerprint: c1f5 f24c d514 3fec 8bf6 |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] |  a2b1 2bae e41f 0644 fab7 |
++ 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: HTML->XHTML transition [Re: I feel to complain again]

[Richard Atterer]

On Sun, Aug 05, 2007 at 10:32:34PM +0200, Bas Zoetekouw wrote:
> No.  Have you actually looked at the pages that are produced? Wml 
> automatically changes  to  unless explicitly told not to.

Ah, OK - thanks, I didn't realize that! I did have a look at the page, but 
assumed that the relevant CVS change just hadn't made it to the HTML pages 
yet.

Cheers,

  Richard

-- 
  __   _
  |_) /|  Richard Atterer |  GnuPG key: 888354F7
  | \/¯|  http://atterer.net  |  08A9 7B7D 3D13 3EF2 3D25  D157 79E6 F6DC 8883 
54F7
  ¯ '` ¯


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: New Developer Locations map available

[James Treacy]

On Sun, Aug 05, 2007 at 10:09:55PM +0200, Alexander Schmehl wrote:
> * Holger Levsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [070804 17:18]:
> > > Without clustering the map is too slow to be usable. 
> > Speaking of unusable, I'd appreciate if a png version of the map is created 
> > too, as I usually have javascript disabled.
> 
> ... and you can't embed google maps into your slides for a presentation
> about Debian.

I'll look into generating a large map using google maps. If it can't
generate something better than the previous one, we can continue
generating the old one too.


-- 
James Treacy
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]