Re: Male teaching methods? - was: Re: Women in FOSS at OSWC II
On Mon, Feb 27, 2006 at 06:16:54PM +1100, Pia Waugh wrote:
> > When thinking about it, I guess it's this aspect in which I'm most
> > different from "typical" (non-technical) women ("typical" in the
> > statistical status quo sense - not saying there's some biological
> > predetermination in effect here!).
> See, I don't think that any of us are atypical. I think that by thinking
> that way we are maintaining a status quo to ourselves :)
So what word would you use instead of "typical"? I don't think it helps
address problems of equality to stigmatize the vocabulary needed to
describe statistical realities, either.
You just have to avoid conflating "atypical" with *wrong*...
--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/
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Re: Debian election on now
also sprach Helen Faulkner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006.02.27.0156 +0100]: > I think it would be great to get more women involved in the > discussion and debate surrounding the DPL elections, so please, > let us know your views and your wishes for Debian's future! ... even though the number of women in the project may still be low, I bet some good argumentation can cause wonders and influence those who can vote... -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> : :' :proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system Invalid/expired PGP (sub)keys? Use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver! "and if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear you shout and no one seems to hear and if the band you're in starts playing different tunes i'll see you on the dark side of the moon." -- pink floyd, 1972 signature.asc Description: Digital signature (GPG/PGP)
Re: Male teaching methods? - was: Re: Women in FOSS at OSWC II
Hi Steve, > So what word would you use instead of "typical"? I don't think it helps > address problems of equality to stigmatize the vocabulary needed to > describe statistical realities, either. What? I wasn't stigmatising anything. I wasn't saying typical or atypical is good or bad, I was suggesting that we are just women, and not strange because of our technical interests. I was suggesting that tying to say that women who aren't into techie foo are typical is already drawing a line that doesn't need to be drawn. Cheers, Pia -- Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ "Women hold up half the sky." - Mao Tse Tung -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hello and introduction
Hi! * Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060225 07:13]: > Older members could also send mini bios, by the way.Who begins? :-) Uhm... perhaps me? Since I have never send a bio but was lurking arround for quite some time, you could say, that it's my turn ;) Hi! My name is Alexander Schmehl but I'm often called "tolimar" (no big meaning behing that, it's a quite unknown character in "book of lost tales", the prequel to the prequel to "Lord of the Rings"). I'm a Debian Developer as long as I'm 28 years old (which will be four weeks tomorov). I maintain a couple of smaller packages (related to games, some other packages will hopefully follow soon ;) but my main contributions to Debian are - if you like to say so - public relations work: Organizing smaller and bigger events, boothes and merchandising for exhibitions, fairs and small conferences, delivering talks. Most of that in germany and nearby european countries. If I'm not traveling arround in the countrie, I'm trying to complete my degree in computer science (Anyone heard ever of the Department of Computer Science at the Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universitaet Frankfurt?) and work as part time employee as "software developer" / "techical foobarist" at a company producing cool (and uncool) open source stuff. My interest in d-w? Mostly curiosity at first I must honestly confess. I was just curious, what you are going to do. But I found some stuff created by d-w quite interesting and usefull (e.g. the bug squashing workshops or the maintainer scripts article (wouldn't have made it through nm without it)). So, if there's something I can help with, just say so. Yours sincerely, Alexander -- http://learn.to/quote/ http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Hello and introduction
Hello, My name is Vedran Vucic and I am involved in various civic movements in the last 16 years or so. I also compose music for theatre and work with free software in the last 10 years. I am on debain-women list because I think that technology is not primarily male thing. I think that noone is happy in male-dominated world so men and women should cooperate to make world better. I am president of the board of the Linux cetre in Belgrade, Serbia. however, all can feel free to ask any questions that anyone may have. Regards, Vedran Vucic http://www.gnucentar.org.yu Quoting Alexander Schmehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi! > > * Christian Perrier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060225 07:13]: > > > Older members could also send mini bios, by the way.Who begins? :-) > > Uhm... perhaps me? Since I have never send a bio but was lurking > arround for quite some time, you could say, that it's my turn ;) > > > Hi! My name is Alexander Schmehl but I'm often called "tolimar" (no big > meaning behing that, it's a quite unknown character in "book of lost > tales", the prequel to the prequel to "Lord of the Rings"). I'm a > Debian Developer as long as I'm 28 years old (which will be four weeks > tomorov). > > I maintain a couple of smaller packages (related to games, some other > packages will hopefully follow soon ;) but my main contributions to > Debian are - if you like to say so - public relations work: Organizing > smaller and bigger events, boothes and merchandising for exhibitions, > fairs and small conferences, delivering talks. Most of that in germany > and nearby european countries. > > If I'm not traveling arround in the countrie, I'm trying to complete my > degree in computer science (Anyone heard ever of the Department of > Computer Science at the Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universitaet Frankfurt?) > and work as part time employee as "software developer" / "techical > foobarist" at a company producing cool (and uncool) open source stuff. > > > My interest in d-w? Mostly curiosity at first I must honestly confess. > I was just curious, what you are going to do. But I found some stuff > created by d-w quite interesting and usefull (e.g. the bug squashing > workshops or the maintainer scripts article (wouldn't have made it > through nm without it)). > > So, if there's something I can help with, just say so. > > > Yours sincerely, > Alexander > > -- > http://learn.to/quote/ > http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Updating profiles
* Vedran Vucic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006:02:27 16:30 +0100]: > > Hello, > > > My name is Vedran Vucic and I am involved in various civic movements in the > last 16 years or so. I also compose music for theatre and work with free > software in the last 10 years. I am on debain-women list because I think > that > > technology is not primarily male thing. I think that noone is happy in > male-dominated world so men and women should cooperate to make world better. > I am president of the board of the Linux cetre in Belgrade, Serbia. > however, all can feel free to ask any questions that anyone may have. > > Regards, > Vedran Vucic > http://www.gnucentar.org.yu > It's so nice to see new people posting to the list! As a side note, there are quite a few people whose profiles have been out of date on the d-w profile page[1] for quite a while now. I'd really love it if we could show off our arsenal of DDs a little better. I'd be happy to commit the changes if people would send me edits. (I suppose I'm mostly looking at Marga, Helen, etc. here.) Or someone else is welcome to do it. 1. http://women.alioth.debian.org/profiles/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Hello and introduction
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Erinn Clark wrote: > I like seeing these little bios from new members. :) Hmm, okay then. I'm elmindreda, although people in the real world insist on calling me Camilla. I'm an ex game developer who has slowly but surely fallen for the Unix way, finally ending up on a Debian desktop. I'm involved in the demoscene[1], although I haven't released a serious demo for a while now. I also run and/or participate in a few (mostly graphics related) Open Source projects, some of which I'd like to package one day. I found DW via the DebConf5 recordings, and I'm very glad I did, as it's proven to be a wonderful gateway into Debian. I usually tend to avoid female-dominated environments, as I lack the social wiring required to make sense of most of them, but DW is a nice exception. I'm making my way through all the documentation required in order to make good packages and nice bug reports, but at the moment I'm mostly expanding my knowledge of autotools. I think Erinn knows why. I'm mostly here to give back to the wonderful system running on my workstations, although I may apply for NM in the future. As for analogoue activities, I split my time somewhat evenly between Unix and demoscene work, and the autism rights movement. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demoscene - -- Camilla -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFEA7dH/hDNB2XyHW0RAiXUAJ43zstrfwTC90gv5LgHs0WDiv7u9QCeKqCa 2fSHqHjOvi1FZdXzVYIY0dE= =IhB0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hello and introduction
* Camilla Berglund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006:02:28 03:37 +0100]: > I'm elmindreda, although people in the real world insist on calling me > Camilla. I'm an ex game developer who has slowly but surely fallen for > the Unix way, finally ending up on a Debian desktop. w00t! Game developers! I am sort of a budding one myself (currently making casual games go on airplanes using semi-embedded Linux...) > I found DW via the DebConf5 recordings, and I'm very glad I did, as it's > proven to be a wonderful gateway into Debian. I usually tend to avoid > female-dominated environments, as I lack the social wiring required to > make sense of most of them, but DW is a nice exception. So I'm really curious about this bit -- I suppose two parts or maybe they're really one and of course, no obligation to answer if you don't feel like it. :) - What about female-dominated environments has made you feel like you don't fit in, specifically? I think I've felt this way in the past, but for me it had more to do with not feeling "polite" enough and being accused of being too hostile/aggressive. Your comment about social wiring piques my interest, I think, because (due to your mention of autism at the end of your bio) I'm wondering if there are some things a lot of us don't notice because they're really subtle behaviors we've picked up along the way and they are either natural to us or we've learned to mimic them effectively. - What about DW differs, in your opinion? I have my own theories about what the differences may be, but I'm really interested in hearing yours. > I'm making my way through all the documentation required in order to > make good packages and nice bug reports, but at the moment I'm mostly > expanding my knowledge of autotools. I think Erinn knows why. Indeed I do, and I can barely contain my excitement. :) > I'm mostly here to give back to the wonderful system running on my > workstations, although I may apply for NM in the future. Yay!! -- off the chain like a rebellious guanine nucleotide -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hello and introduction
* linuxgirlie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006:02:25 21:45 +]: > Haven't been a member for long but here goes... > > Hi, I am Jo, on the net I am 'known' as linuxgirlie. Hello and welcome. :) > I am from the UK and am a sys-admin in a secondary school, I am the > co-founder of Karoshi (www.karoshi.org.uk) Wow, looks like a very cool project -- I'm so excited to have female developers here! > I must admit that I don't use Debian as my desktop distro I use Mandriva > 2006, but I use Debian for other reasons including testing for Karoshi. I'm sure it's just a matter of time... ;) (Mandrake was actually my first distro -- despite only using it for three months before switching to Debian, I think I still have a soft spot for it.) > I started my love of Linux when I was in 6th Form at the age of 16/17, I got > to install Corel Linux and haven't looked back, I am now 21 1/2 which means > I have been using Linux for 5-ish years nowand I keep getting told to > let go of Mandriva...but I just can't...lol...maybe one day! :D Just out of curiosity -- since that is actually pretty young, especially (in my experience) for a woman to begin using Linux -- how were you introduced to it? -- off the chain like a rebellious guanine nucleotide -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Male teaching methods? - was: Re: Women in FOSS at OSWC II
* Almut Behrens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006:02:26 16:49 +0100]:
> Hi all, (guess I haven't posted here for ages...)
Indeed, but it's good to see you posting again... :)
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 09:06:47PM +1100, Pia Waugh wrote:
> >
> > (snipped lots of good stuff)
> >
> > ... In that case, it turned out that his teaching methods were a
> > very male way of learning, and so the women had to go out on their
> > own a bit more to learn.
>
> Could you elaborate on what you mean by "male" here in the context
> of learning/teaching?
>
> The reason I ask is that way back at university I was (among other
> things) teaching introductory computer courses to students of the
> social sciences (and therefore mostly women).
>
> At the end of the courses, I usually asked for feedback and
> constructive criticism, and sometimes I got remarks saying my teaching
> style was mostly fine, "but a bit too male". Now, I would really have
> loved to understand that ('cos I'm a woman - at least biologically :)
> I asked what they meant, but somehow they could never really enlighten
> me about it...
Hmm, so I've been racking my brain about this for ages -- thinking back
to all of my teachers and professors, mentors and colleagues, etc. I
honestly cannot think of what it means to have a male teaching style (or
a female one, for that matter). The feedback you got was very
interesting... or maybe just plain strange. The bit I find most
intriguing is that you were "too male"! Were the men ever too male? Or
too female? One has to wonder...
I will say that at my place of employment, there is a very strong
tendency to let people work/learn on their own and something I've
discovered is that I am just not good at that -- I do better when
working with another person and talking out ideas, which is very
stereotypically "feminine". I'm curious whether your teaching style ever
emphasized working alone over group work. My classes were pretty evenly
split, though thinking back, I believe I had many female science
teachers and many male liberal arts teachers, so it may be difficult to
say much about their teaching styles, since both kinds "crossed over",
so to speak.
--
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Re: Hello and introduction
> I found DW via the DebConf5 recordings, and I'm very glad I did, as it's > proven to be a wonderful gateway into Debian. I usually tend to avoid > female-dominated environments, as I lack the social wiring required to > make sense of most of them, but DW is a nice exception. Well, about that part of the topic, I think that what makes DW really specific is that it is actually *not* a female-dominated environment. Besides its main goal which is still and will hopefully ever be "bring more women to Debian", the DW project has cristallized a group of *people* who have this common goal and, as a natural side effect, show that Debian can *also* be a friendly environment for newcomers. This is why you'll also find a few men in the project and, because indeed this project has motivated several (male) DD's (and non DD), there are often more men than women in the project...:) We just try to avoid showing up to much (except people like myself who can't stop talking when they talk about their pet peeves projects) to keep a "decent" balance (that's not always true on IRC..:-))). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
