Re: Women in FOSS at OSWC II
Hey Erinn and all, > The thing I'm not clear on, which I think Pia could probably elaborate > on, is: what level of silence is appropriate? Screaming from the > rooftops about the evils of men is certainly unproductive, but I am > concerned that pretending nothing is wrong is going to mislead people. > At some level, at least within Debian, there is not much to complain > about. There are visible women in Debian and there are also, > statistically speaking, a /lot/ of women in Debian and people are used > to us being around by now. But as a general matter, is it that good across > the board? I really don't know. When does it stop being "awareness" and > start becoming "discouragement"? This is I think the balancing act we face. I don't think it is a matter of "be silent or blame the men". I think this is also a problem with women who also maintain the assumptions about gender roles and in particular that girls aren't technical (ever had a female say to you "when is the engineer turning up?"). I think a negative approach simply doesn't work, and saying that, even though we all have our stories in the free software world, I still think this world gives us a far better opportunity to drive real social change throughout the world, and we should be celebrating that fact and empowering those within it to help us achieve our goals. I think there are a few key messages we _could_ be using more: 1) "By participating in free software, _you_ are helping make the world a better place. You are helping drive the kind of social change that will give future generations real choice and opportunity". Empowering members of our community, men and women in a positive way helps them realise the issues and feel good about helping do their bit. 2) "There is a difference between active and passive biases that can affect the people you deal with. Sometimes your assumptions may get in the way of your positive attitude". I have found far, far, far more men (and women) in this space to be actively and loudly supportive of women in FOSS, and really hurt when someone like the woman on that panel try to suggest that they "lock women out" because they really do try. What many people don't realise is that just because you've changed your active bias, it doesn't mean all your behaviours are pro that choice. The book "Blink" by the same guy who wrote "The Tipping Point" really helped me realise this. First helping people differentiate between active and passive biases helps, and then gently drawing their attention to ways that their passive biases can get in the way. For instance, I had a notable free software hacker tell me he was keen to see more women but for all his effort he didn't understand why the women who had worked for him sometimes didn't seem to pick stuff up as fast as the men. In that case, it turned out that his teaching methods were a very male way of learning, and so the women had to go out on their own a bit more to learn. He had an active bias to support women in software devel, but hadn't looked at the passive biases or assumptions that got in the way. I think educating people of this is useful as they can start to say ok well what is it about my behaviour that may limit another persons ability (women or otherwise) and that leads to a better working environment all round :) 3) I think DW does a good job of promoting rocking women in the Debian project, and that is important. I think we could be doing more to get that information out there. I point to the dw website to people I speak to interested in whether there are many women in this space. 4) Perception becomes reality. this isn't so much a core message as it is my motto. By being positive, by showing how FOSS is a place that is driving change and where girls can get involved I think we can make that perception be more and more real every day. The more people we say that too, the more people will take pride in being such an inclusive global community, and the more people will enforce it in their own interactions. People are proud of this community, lets give them another reason to be proud of it that offers real opportunity for girls and women. Cheers, Pia -- Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ "Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all and the earth itself to nobody." - Jean Jacques Rosseau -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Hello and introduction
Hi all, > Older members could also send mini bios, by the way.Who begins? :-) I'm Pia Waugh, Debian was my first distro and even after trying a few other distros I have always stuck with Debian and Debian derivatives, both for the technical superiority and choice, as well as for the philosophical values. I am vice president of Linux Australia (http://linux.org.au), I'm on the Software Freedom Initiative (the people who organise Software Freedom Day http://softwarefreedomday.org), I am into advocacy about FOSS, and am a FOSS consultant with a technical background. I'm also doing a research project about the use of FOSS in the education and research sectors in Australia (http://www.ask-oss.mq.edu.au). I also try to visit conferences as much as I can, and feel really priveledged to have met such awesome people. This community is so strong because it has core values underpinning it that make it important. I have great respect for everyone on this list, and it is great to have these discussions. I feel like I have family all over the world :) Oh, and I'm also on the organising committee for linux.conf.au 2007 which will be in Sydney. We don't have our website up yet, but call for papers will be in a few months, so I want to see some great papers submitted by chicks doing cool stuff! Which all of us are (those of you who are chicks anyway) so there are no excuses :) Rock on Debian-Women! Pia -- Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ "We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free." - Bill Hicks -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Women in FOSS at OSWC II
Hi Helen, > In case anyone else is wondering (it is a fairly colloquial phrase), to "tell > off the crowd for locking women out" means to "criticise the crowd for > excluding > women from their activities". > > to tell someone off means to criticise or verbally punish them (eg "I told my > son off for not doing his homework earlier") > > to lock someone out, in this context, means to prevent them from joining in > the > activity - think the analogy of locking girls out of the boy's clubhouse, or > something like that. Thankyou, I hadn't got around to clearing that up :) Cheers, Pia -- Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ "Is kneeling a criteria for talking to you?" - Philip Lindsay to Jeff -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Male teaching methods? - was: Re: Women in FOSS at OSWC II
Hi all, (guess I haven't posted here for ages...)
On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 09:06:47PM +1100, Pia Waugh wrote:
>
> (snipped lots of good stuff)
>
> ... In that case, it turned out that his teaching methods were a
> very male way of learning, and so the women had to go out on their
> own a bit more to learn.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by "male" here in the context
of learning/teaching?
The reason I ask is that way back at university I was (among other
things) teaching introductory computer courses to students of the
social sciences (and therefore mostly women).
At the end of the courses, I usually asked for feedback and
constructive criticism, and sometimes I got remarks saying my teaching
style was mostly fine, "but a bit too male". Now, I would really have
loved to understand that ('cos I'm a woman - at least biologically :)
I asked what they meant, but somehow they could never really enlighten
me about it...
Eventually, I figured they equated "male" with "technical", or, maybe
more precisely, "analytic" (in the sense of taking things apart to
study how their constituents work, or why they don't...). The latter
definitely seems to be a major trait of mine. Already as a lil' girl,
I couldn't resist taking apart almost everything around me. That
preferred mode of operation probably then got me into technical stuff,
first electronics, and later computers and programming.
Luckily, noone ever cared to train that weirdness out of me ;) So,
nowadays, as a big girl, I still almost automatically unscrew things
that don't work, or virtually unscrew software to locate bugs.
(And yes, I do believe this to be a generally useful way to approach
technical stuff -- in part also because, as a beneficial side effect,
it makes you good at putting things back together again, or recombining
the parts...).
When thinking about it, I guess it's this aspect in which I'm most
different from "typical" (non-technical) women ("typical" in the
statistical status quo sense - not saying there's some biological
predetermination in effect here!).
In fact, it sometimes makes me go "grrr, why don't you just..." when
I see some other woman exhibit symptoms of learned helplessness, when
being faced with some technical device that doesn't do what it's
supposed to... (I usually don't say anything, though, 'cos I realise
it may not necessarily be her fault alone - in the large, that is...).
Along similar lines, it has so far almost always been men who could
really deeply sympathise with me in this "analytic way".
OK, to come back to my original question, that's my take of why my
teaching style might have been perceived as male... Not sure, though.
Ideas, comments?
Almut
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Debian election on now
Hi everyone, Sorry to those who already know all about this. I reckon there are a few of you who aren't on many or any other Debian mailing lists, so this is maybe news for some. The election for this year's Debian Project Leader [1] is in progress at the moment. There are 7 nominations, and we have now entered a 3-week campaigning period, which is followed by a 3-week voting period [2]. Only Debian Developers may vote in the election, but it may still be of interest for non-developers and non-developers can take part in the discussion on the mailing list and the IRC debate. I suggest joining the debian-vote mailing list [3] to anyone who is interested in observing Debian debating culture in action. It will probably be high-traffic over the next few weeks, though. But interesting! You may also be interested in reading the candidates' platforms, once they are posted to [1] by the Debian Project Secretary, and watching or participating in the IRC debate, which is yet to be announced. I think it would be great to get more women involved in the discussion and debate surrounding the DPL elections, so please, let us know your views and your wishes for Debian's future! Helen 1. http://www.debian.org/vote/2006/vote_002 2. http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2006/02/msg00665.html 3. http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Male teaching methods? - was: Re: Women in FOSS at OSWC II
Hi Almut,
> Eventually, I figured they equated "male" with "technical", or, maybe
> more precisely, "analytic" (in the sense of taking things apart to
> study how their constituents work, or why they don't...).
Don't make that assumption too readily :) I don't think it is the content,
but rather the style of teaching. I find that even on mailing lists men tend
to be very loud in their questions and answers, and women often are a bit
quieter and go off to learn stuff on their own without asking as many
questions as their male counterparts. I think women learn better in smaller
groups, working through real problems rather than theory. I know I would
rather try to read up on something than just ask the question in a technical
forum, and this is something that often slows women down. I think we learn
differently than men and don't have all the answers as to how, but women do
tend to be more collaborative learners, whereas uni for one place is more a
person standing in front of you and the if you have a question, you have it
in front of everybody!
An interesting read on the matter below:
- Women and Men in the Classroom: Inequality and Its Remedies -
http://bokcenter.fas.harvard.edu/docs/krupnick.html
> When thinking about it, I guess it's this aspect in which I'm most
> different from "typical" (non-technical) women ("typical" in the
> statistical status quo sense - not saying there's some biological
> predetermination in effect here!).
See, I don't think that any of us are atypical. I think that by thinking
that way we are maintaining a status quo to ourselves :)
> OK, to come back to my original question, that's my take of why my
> teaching style might have been perceived as male... Not sure, though.
> Ideas, comments?
To be honest, you'd have to describe your teaching style :)
Cheers,
Pia
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Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/
"Watching television is like taking black spray paint to your third
eye." - Bill Hicks
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