Re: Platform
Hi Jonathan, Em 14/03/2023 13:38, Jonathan Carter escreveu: Hey everyone Even though I'm the only one running this time, I hope that we can use the time leading to the election as productive discussion time as we've done in some previous campaign periods. I believe this year is a special because it's 30 years of Debian. So we need a speciall call for celebration :-) Best regards, -- Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls) Belo Horizonte - Brasil Debian Developer Site: http://phls.com.br GPG ID: 0443C450 OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
On community and conflicts
Hi Jonathan, thank you for offering to serve the Debian project for another year as project leader. To my knowledge, it does not happen often, that a Debian member gets excluded from the project. Half a year later, would you mind sharing a comment on my exclusion? Would you be open to have a (public?) call with me and maybe also people from the project (e.g. community team)? There have been conflicts in the last years that separated even families. Also the Debian project has been affected. These conflicts should be healed. All the best, Thomas Koch
Re: On community and conflicts
Thomas, I would be interested in hearing the details of what happened. A brief internet search didn’t pull up any information that seemed pertinent. Is there some online location where you explain your side of the experience? Soren On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 10:00:28 AM MST Thomas Koch wrote: > Hi Jonathan, > > thank you for offering to serve the Debian project for another year as > project leader. > > To my knowledge, it does not happen often, that a Debian member gets > excluded from the project. > > Half a year later, would you mind sharing a comment on my exclusion? Would > you be open to have a (public?) call with me and maybe also people from the > project (e.g. community team)? > > There have been conflicts in the last years that separated even families. > Also the Debian project has been affected. These conflicts should be healed. > > All the best, Thomas Koch -- Soren Stoutner so...@stoutner.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: On community and conflicts
> Soren Stoutner hat am 15.03.2023 19:07 EET geschrieben: > > I would be interested in hearing the details of what happened. There you go: https://blog.koch.ro/posts/2023-03-15-debian-exclusion.html
Re: On community and conflicts
On 2023/03/15 19:00, Thomas Koch wrote: Half a year later, would you mind sharing a comment on my exclusion? I'm glad that DAM didn't take too long to take action. Would you be open to have a (public?) call with me and maybe also people from the project (e.g. community team)? There have been conflicts in the last years that separated even families. Also the Debian project has been affected. These conflicts should be healed. If you care about healing, the best thing you can possibly do is to move on. From my side, I'm not interested in risking exposing the project to wasting even more time on more conspiracy theories. -Jonathan
Re: On community and conflicts
Thomas, Thank you for this post. I found it an informative read. My personal opinion is that Debian is not the proper venue for discussions that do not have a strong nexus to development of Debian itself. As such, I don’t feel that any of the emails or posts you wrote were appropriate for sending to Debian’s email lists or posting on Debian websites except for the email questions about how Debian can best handle the increasing difficulty caused by laws that prohibit the free-flow of contributions and software between countries (your email of 3 April 2022). However much I might agree with the factual content of the other emails and posts, I don’t think it serves Debian well to get involved in controversial topics unless they directly impact the operation of Debian itself (for example, laws related to copyright or patents). Soren On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 11:28:22 AM MST Thomas Koch wrote: > > Soren Stoutner hat am 15.03.2023 19:07 EET > > geschrieben: > > > > I would be interested in hearing the details of what happened. > > There you go: > https://blog.koch.ro/posts/2023-03-15-debian-exclusion.html -- Soren Stoutner so...@stoutner.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: On community and conflicts
On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 12:00:55PM -0700, Soren Stoutner wrote: > Thomas, > > Thank you for this post. I found it an informative read. > > My personal opinion is that Debian is not the proper venue for discussions > that do not have a strong nexus to development of Debian itself. As such, I > don’t feel that any of the emails or posts you wrote were appropriate for > sending to Debian’s email lists or posting on Debian websites except for the > email questions about how Debian can best handle the increasing difficulty > caused by laws that prohibit the free-flow of contributions and software > between countries (your email of 3 April 2022). > > However much I might agree with the factual content of the other emails and > posts, I don’t think it serves Debian well to get involved in controversial > topics unless they directly impact the operation of Debian itself (for > example, laws related to copyright or patents). > Yet, would someone posting about the earth being flat, the moon landings being faked, or aliens being kept in various secret government facilities around the world have been so swiftly removed from the project? BTW, I think that in this particular instance it did "directly impact the operation of Debian itself" because pandemic-related restrictions (e.g., vaccines, travel distruptions, etc.) became something that impacted Debian events and operations. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez
Re: On community and conflicts
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 12:10:01 PM MST Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: > BTW, I think that in this particular instance it did "directly impact > the operation of Debian itself" because pandemic-related restrictions > (e.g., vaccines, travel distruptions, etc.) became something that > impacted Debian events and operations. I do see your point, but my personal feeling is that isn’t a strong enough nexus for it to be something that is discussed in Debian itself. Debian is going to be full of many people from many countries under many different governments with many different laws and feelings about those laws. If we allowed debate of any topic that affected Debian at the level of vaccines or travel disruptions it would completely disrupt the work that Debian is trying to accomplish. The key to this subject is how significant the nexus is between the subject and Debian’s work. In my opinion, it must be much stronger than in the case of any controversial discussion of COVID (again, irrespective of my personal beliefs about the factual content of that discussion). In my previous email I used the example of discussion of copyright or patent laws, which can become controversial in some quarters, being something where the nexus is strong enough that it is appropriate to discuss them in Debian. Unless it rises to / that/ level, I don’t believe this is the right place for it to happen. Soren -- Soren Stoutner so...@stoutner.com signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: On community and conflicts
On 16803 March 1977, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote: Yet, would someone posting about the earth being flat, the moon landings being faked, or aliens being kept in various secret government facilities around the world have been so swiftly removed from the project? Hardly swiftly. And not to a single event. The timeline in the DAM post he published lists it nicely, about 2 years and multiple warnings in. And yes, if someone manages to go that way with another conspiracy theory that directly affects people like this one did, I do believe the outcome will be the same. The ones you list above are on the comedy side of things. :) -- bye, Joerg
