Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
Hi Greg,
thank you very much for your quick reply!
Sorry I did not mention I'm not subscribed to the mailing list, I had to
"manually" copy the text from
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/05/msg00154.html
here
I also did not mention that there is a related thread on guix-bugs
mailing list [1], but AFAIU it's not a Guix bug
On Thu, May 05, 2022 at 14:23:44 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
[...]
>> This is my ~/.profile:
>>
>> --8<---cut here---start->8---
>>
>> ### Guix settings
>> #
>> # add Guix current path
>> export PATH="$HOME/.config/guix/current/bin${PATH:+:}$PATH"
>> # Locale path
>> export GUIX_LOCPATH="$HOME/.guix-profile/lib/locale"
>> # add Guix infopath
>> export INFOPATH="$HOME/.config/guix/current/share/info:$INFOPATH"
>> # set default Guix profile
>> export GUIX_PROFILE="$HOME/.guix-profile"
>> # source default Guix profile
>> . $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile
>>
>> --8<---cut here---end--->8---
>
> Note that your .profile has NOTHING about XDG in it.
Sorry, I missed to say that all needed env variables are defined in
$GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile, including XDG_DATA_DIRS
$GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile it's very long (and auto-generated by Guix)
and I'd omit this here, please trust me it's OK
I also missed to mention that all but XDG_DATA_DIRS env are set up
according to $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile, and I can't understand why
> (It's also not sourcing ~/.bashrc which is bad, but maybe you simply
> never work in a login shell, so you never noticed it.)
OK I'll fix it but AFAIU it's not related to the problem concerning
XDG_DATA_DIRS customization
[...]
> To this day I've never found an actual use for systemctl --user.
Me too, I simply ignored all the systemd user configuration, I was just
using the Debian default settings.
In my research to try to find the root cause that's "resetting" (?)
XDG_DATA_DIRS after my customization, I found some documents explaining
how to set env variables in the user instance of systemd
(e.g. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd/User#Environment_variables)
> The fact that you've apparently found some use for it is a surprise.
Actually I'm not configuring it in any way, the systemd user environment
("systemdctl
--user show-environment") I get is the result of the default Debian
systemd user configuration, including XDG_DATA_DIRS: I simply dont' know
what is configuring that
> Maybe some day I'll find one as well.
>
>Anyway, the environment provided to things launched by systemctl --user
>is not the same as your interactive session's environment.
OK, so let's forget about it :-D
>> When I log in via lightdm to an LXDE session, I open LXterminal to check
>> my environment and I find:
>>
>> patrizia@raifort:~$ env | grep XDG
>> [...]
>> XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/
>
>> If in the LXTerminal I start a login bash shell with "bash -l" I get:
>>
>> patrizia@raifort:~$ env | grep XDG
>> [...]
>> XDG_DATA_DIRS=/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/
>
>> Now the XDG_DATA_DIRS is fine.
>
>Interesting. I'm not familiar with LXDE or LXterminal. Did they follow
>GNOME's lead? Is LXterminal spawned as child of some daemon like dbus,
>instead of a child of your X session?
I don't have the same laptop at hand now, but on another laptop with the
same problem (using gdm3 as display manager) the LXTerminal is a child
of gdm-session-worker (lightdm when i checked yesterday on the other
laptop)
[...]
>(Also, it's not clear where your XDG_DATA_DIRS variable is actually
>coming from. Is it from that $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile thing that's
>dotted in from your .profile?
It /should/ come from the sourced $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile but the
content is reset (?) by "something" after the .xsession sourcing and
before the X session process spawn (?)
[...]
> If you need to customize your *shell* environment when you're working
> under a cursed desktop like GNOME (and apparently LXDE?) where the
> terminal does not inherit the X session's variables,
As I said (and forgot to mention in my first message, sorry), all other
env variables exported by $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile (via .xsessionrc)
are actually inherited, all but XDG_DATA_DIRS that is /replaced/ with a
"hardcoded" (?) value:
XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/
It should be:
XDG_DATA_DIRS=/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/
> you might need to seek out GNOME (or LXDE) people who have already
> tackled that problem
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
Hi Greg,
thank you very much for your quick reply!
Sorry I did not mention I'm not subscribed to the mailing list, I had to
"manually" copy the text from
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2022/05/msg00154.html
here
I also did not mention that there is a related thread on guix-bugs
mailing list [1], but AFAIU it's not a Guix bug
On Thu, May 05, 2022 at 14:23:44 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
[...]
>> This is my ~/.profile:
>>
>> --8<---cut here---start->8---
>>
>> ### Guix settings
>> #
>> # add Guix current path
>> export PATH="$HOME/.config/guix/current/bin${PATH:+:}$PATH"
>> # Locale path
>> export GUIX_LOCPATH="$HOME/.guix-profile/lib/locale"
>> # add Guix infopath
>> export INFOPATH="$HOME/.config/guix/current/share/info:$INFOPATH"
>> # set default Guix profile
>> export GUIX_PROFILE="$HOME/.guix-profile"
>> # source default Guix profile
>> . $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile
>>
>> --8<---cut here---end--->8---
>
> Note that your .profile has NOTHING about XDG in it.
Sorry, I missed to say that all needed env variables are defined in
$GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile, including XDG_DATA_DIRS
$GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile it's very long (and auto-generated by Guix)
and I'd omit this here, please trust me it's OK
I also missed to mention that all but XDG_DATA_DIRS env are set up
according to $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile, and I can't understand why
> (It's also not sourcing ~/.bashrc which is bad, but maybe you simply
> never work in a login shell, so you never noticed it.)
OK I'll fix it but AFAIU it's not related to the problem concerning
XDG_DATA_DIRS customization
[...]
> To this day I've never found an actual use for systemctl --user.
Me too, I simply ignored all the systemd user configuration, I was just
using the Debian default settings.
In my research to try to find the root cause that's "resetting" (?)
XDG_DATA_DIRS after my customization, I found some documents explaining
how to set env variables in the user instance of systemd
(e.g. https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd/User#Environment_variables)
> The fact that you've apparently found some use for it is a surprise.
Actually I'm not configuring it in any way, the systemd user environment
("systemdctl
--user show-environment") I get is the result of the default Debian
systemd user configuration, including XDG_DATA_DIRS: I simply dont' know
what is configuring that
> Maybe some day I'll find one as well.
>
>Anyway, the environment provided to things launched by systemctl --user
>is not the same as your interactive session's environment.
OK, so let's forget about it :-D
>> When I log in via lightdm to an LXDE session, I open LXterminal to check
>> my environment and I find:
>>
>> patrizia@raifort:~$ env | grep XDG
>> [...]
>> XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/
>
>> If in the LXTerminal I start a login bash shell with "bash -l" I get:
>>
>> patrizia@raifort:~$ env | grep XDG
>> [...]
>> XDG_DATA_DIRS=/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/
>
>> Now the XDG_DATA_DIRS is fine.
>
>Interesting. I'm not familiar with LXDE or LXterminal. Did they follow
>GNOME's lead? Is LXterminal spawned as child of some daemon like dbus,
>instead of a child of your X session?
I don't have the same laptop at hand now, but on another laptop with the
same problem (using gdm3 as display manager) the LXTerminal is a child
of gdm-session-worker (lightdm when i checked yesterday on the other
laptop)
[...]
>(Also, it's not clear where your XDG_DATA_DIRS variable is actually
>coming from. Is it from that $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile thing that's
>dotted in from your .profile?
It /should/ come from the sourced $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile but the
content is reset (?) by "something" after the .xsession sourcing and
before the X session process spawn (?)
[...]
> If you need to customize your *shell* environment when you're working
> under a cursed desktop like GNOME (and apparently LXDE?) where the
> terminal does not inherit the X session's variables,
As I said (and forgot to mention in my first message, sorry), all other
env variables exported by $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile (via .xsessionrc)
are actually inherited, all but XDG_DATA_DIRS that is /replaced/ with a
"hardcoded" (?) value:
XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/
It should be:
XDG_DATA_DIRS=/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/
> you might need to seek out GNOME (or LXDE) people who have already
> tackled that problem
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 09:14:20AM +0200, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote:
> Sorry I did not mention I'm not subscribed to the mailing list,
OK.
> Actually I'm not configuring it in any way, the systemd user environment
> ("systemdctl
> --user show-environment") I get is the result of the default Debian
> systemd user configuration, including XDG_DATA_DIRS: I simply dont' know
> what is configuring that
Ah. So the systemctl --user stuff is completely irrelevant? You only
thought it had some meaning, so you kept mentioning it.
> I don't have the same laptop at hand now, but on another laptop with the
> same problem (using gdm3 as display manager) the LXTerminal is a child
> of gdm-session-worker (lightdm when i checked yesterday on the other
> laptop)
That's *completely* different from what David showed:
> Inside lxterminal:
> [david@kablamm ~]$ pstree -s $$
> systemd───lightdm───lightdm───lxsession───lxpanel───x-terminal-emul───bash───pstree
I wonder why they're so different.
> It /should/ come from the sourced $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile but the
> content is reset (?) by "something" after the .xsession sourcing and
> before the X session process spawn (?)
The whole point of putting variables in .xsessionrc is so that they
become part of the Xsession process, and are therefore inherited by
all of its children. In a normal setup, that includes any programs
launched from .xsession (if it exists), or your x-session-manager or
x-window-manager program.
Also in a normal setup, a terminal is created as a child of the Xsession,
or as a child of the window manager.
However, you're saying that your terminal is a child of "gdm-session-worker"
(whatever that is, clearly some part of gdm3).
That process does *not* contain your .xsessionrc variables, so anything
spawned by it won't have them either.
> As I said (and forgot to mention in my first message, sorry), all other
> env variables exported by $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile (via .xsessionrc)
> are actually inherited, all but XDG_DATA_DIRS that is /replaced/ with a
> "hardcoded" (?) value:
I don't know what to tell you here. If your terminal is launched as a
child/grandchild of gdm, and does *not* inherit from the Xsession, then
it's not getting those variables from your .xsessionrc file.
Maybe it's getting them by some other means.
> Actually there is environment.d [3] but I still have not tried that
> approach,
I went down that rabbit hole once or twice. Maybe I can save you some
time by letting you know that it WILL NOT do anything helpful for you.
environment.d(5) DOES NOT configure the environment of an interactive
session. Please believe me, I tried everything I could think of. This
is just one of those cases where the systemd people solved a problem
that only they thought existed, and ignored the ACTUAL PROBLEM that
people wanted to solve. And, because the systemd people are so completely
out of touch with reality, they dropped their solution on us without
any real explanation of what it DOES, and they made it LOOK like it solves
the problem people would like to solve. But it doesn't.
Here's what the man page says:
Configuration files in the environment.d/ directories contain lists of
environment variable assignments for services started by the systemd
user instance.
What the bleeding hell is a "systemd user instance"? Is it a login session?
NO! No, it is not!
My best guess after all the time I wasted on this thing is that it refers
to the "systemctl --user" daemon. The same thing that neither you nor I
have ever been able to find a use for.
systemd will happily let you customize the environment of that... thing...
but not your login session.
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
Hello Greg and David,
as I said, please leave me in Cc: as I'm not subscribed
Greg Wooledge writes:
> On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 09:14:20AM +0200, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote:
>> Sorry I did not mention I'm not subscribed to the mailing list,
>
> OK.
>
>> Actually I'm not configuring it in any way, the systemd user environment
>> ("systemdctl
>> --user show-environment") I get is the result of the default Debian
>> systemd user configuration, including XDG_DATA_DIRS: I simply dont' know
>> what is configuring that
>
> Ah. So the systemctl --user stuff is completely irrelevant? You only
> thought it had some meaning, so you kept mentioning it.
I mentioned because I'm still curious to understand why in "systemctl
--user" stuff I have "XDG_DATA_DIRS=/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share"
that is /part/ of what $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile (sourced in my
.xinitrc) is exporting for XDG_DATA_DIRS
>> I don't have the same laptop at hand now, but on another laptop with the
>> same problem (using gdm3 as display manager) the LXTerminal is a child
>> of gdm-session-worker (lightdm when i checked yesterday on the other
>> laptop)
>
> That's *completely* different from what David showed:
>
>> Inside lxterminal:
>> [david@kablamm ~]$ pstree -s $$
>> systemd───lightdm───lightdm───lxsession───lxpanel───x-terminal-emul───bash───pstree
On my laptop, inside LXTerminal:
--8<---cut here---start->8---
systemd---gdm3---gdm-session-wor---gdm-x-session---lxsession---lxpanel---lxterminal---bash---pstree
--8<---cut here---end--->8---
I see non difference except I have gdm3 (and related session manager)
instead of lightdm (on this laptop, different from the one of my first
message)
[...]
>> It /should/ come from the sourced $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile but the
>> content is reset (?) by "something" after the .xsession sourcing and
>> before the X session process spawn (?)
>
> The whole point of putting variables in .xsessionrc is so that they
> become part of the Xsession process, and are therefore inherited by
> all of its children. In a normal setup, that includes any programs
> launched from .xsession (if it exists), or your x-session-manager or
> x-window-manager program.
Thank you for your explanation: I can absolutely confirm that this is
what is happening with my Xsession environment (inherited by the window
manager and thus by the "menu manager" and by LXTerminal) /except/ for
XDG_DATA_DIRS that is reset /after/ .xsessionrc is read by my Xsession
manager
> Also in a normal setup, a terminal is created as a child of the Xsession,
> or as a child of the window manager.
AFAIU this is also what is happening on my laptop, given that lxterminal
is an (indirect) child of lxsession
> However, you're saying that your terminal is a child of "gdm-session-worker"
> (whatever that is, clearly some part of gdm3).
>
> That process does *not* contain your .xsessionrc variables, so anything
> spawned by it won't have them either.
I'm sorry I was not clear enough, but all my processes /do/ contain
.xsessionrc variables, except for XDG_DATA_DIRS that is reset by
"something"
>> As I said (and forgot to mention in my first message, sorry), all other
>> env variables exported by $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile (via .xsessionrc)
>> are actually inherited, all but XDG_DATA_DIRS that is /replaced/ with a
>> "hardcoded" (?) value:
>
> I don't know what to tell you here. If your terminal is launched as a
> child/grandchild of gdm, and does *not* inherit from the Xsession, then
> it's not getting those variables from your .xsessionrc file.
>
> Maybe it's getting them by some other means.
No , because in my ~/.xsessionrc (and only there) I have this variable:
--8<---cut here---start->8---
export XSESSION_WAS_HERE="Yes"
--8<---cut here---end--->8---
and if I check that variable via "env | grep HERE" in an LXTerminal
(or xterm, ot Mate terminal) started in LXDE I can see that variable is
configured; this is why I'm pretty sure my ~/.xsessionrc is actually
inherited by my Xsession
>> Actually there is environment.d [3] but I still have not tried that
>> approach,
>
> I went down that rabbit hole once or twice. Maybe I can save you some
> time by letting you know that it WILL NOT do anything helpful for you.
Thank you! :-)
[...]
> systemd will happily let you customize the environment of that... thing...
> but not your login session.
Fine, I'm happy to be able to ignore environment customization via
systemd because I'd really like to have an
init-distro-display_manager-desktop_manager agnostic way to configure it
(and keep it in my dotfolder, git versioned, etc., etc)
I'm still investigating...
Thank you! Gio'
--
Giovanni Biscuolo
Xelera IT Infrastructures
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Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 02:30:59PM +0200, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: > On my laptop, inside LXTerminal: > > systemd---gdm3---gdm-session-wor---gdm-x-session---lxsession---lxpanel---lxterminal---bash---pstree Aha. It's a (grand)child of lxsession, just as with David's. > I'm sorry I was not clear enough, but all my processes /do/ contain > .xsessionrc variables, except for XDG_DATA_DIRS that is reset by > "something" > No , because in my ~/.xsessionrc (and only there) I have this variable: > > export XSESSION_WAS_HERE="Yes" > > and if I check that variable via "env | grep HERE" in an LXTerminal > (or xterm, ot Mate terminal) started in LXDE I can see that variable is > configured; this is why I'm pretty sure my ~/.xsessionrc is actually > inherited by my Xsession OK. Then it sounds like something in between the Xsession and the shell is indeed overwriting that XDG_DATA_DIRS variable. According to your pstree output, those processes include lxsession, lxpanel and lxterminal. You could start with those. Of course, there could be other processes that are not shown, because they're exec'ed out of the picture. Remember, one of the tools available to you is looking at the initial environment of a process, either by using ps with the "e" option, or by reading the /proc/PID/environ file. The latter is NUL-delimited, so you'd want something like this: unicorn:~$ tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/$$/environ | head -n5 SHELL=/bin/bash QT_ACCESSIBILITY=1 LESS=-X QMAILSHOST=wooledge.org QMAILHOST=wooledge.org I find that a lot more useful than ps e. Of course in your case you wouldn't use |head, but probably |grep XDG_DATA_DIRS. If you see the desired variable value in, say, lxpanel but not in lxterminal, then you have a pretty good idea of where the overwrite occurred.
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 02:55, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: > I'm trying to customize my user environment when using the lightdm > display manager (then the LXDE desktop environment) > > I need to customize some variables so I can see Guix installed > applications in my desktop menu, in particular I need to customize > XDG_DATA_DIRS and XDG_CONFIG_DIRS [...] > When I log in via lightdm to an LXDE session, I open LXterminal to check > my environment and I find: [...] > XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/ > If in the LXTerminal I start a login bash shell with "bash -l" I get: [...] > XDG_DATA_DIRS=/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share:/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/ [...] > Now the XDG_DATA_DIRS is fine. > The problem is that the lightdm (and LXDE) XDG_DATA_DIRS is missing > "/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share" and this is the reason why > applications installed with Guix are not listed in my menu. Hi, you wrote a lot of other stuff that I have trimmed, but from what I have quoted above it seems that your complaint is that when you use a login shell you get a XDG_DATA_DIRS value you want, and when you login via lightdm you do not. Is that the entire problem that you want to solve? If so, this suggests to me that your failure case occurs because you are missing some aspect of ~/.profile from the good case. Just a quick suggestion. From here https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/amd64/guix/filelist I see that the Debian guix package contains a file /etc/profile.d/guix.sh which looks to set XDG_DATA_DIRS similar to what you want. The file can be seen here, note the last line: https://sources.debian.org/src/guix/1.3.0-4/debian/guix.sh/ This is entirely based on guesswork by me, but maybe if you look into it then you might discover that you need to arrange for /etc/profile.d/guix.sh (or some of what it contains) to be executed when you log in via lightdm.
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
On Sat, May 07, 2022 at 12:36:59AM +1000, David wrote: > On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 02:55, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: > > > I'm trying to customize my user environment when using the lightdm > > display manager (then the LXDE desktop environment) > > > > I need to customize some variables so I can see Guix installed > > applications in my desktop menu, in particular I need to customize > > XDG_DATA_DIRS and XDG_CONFIG_DIRS This bring up another point that we haven't really pursued yet. What program produces this "desktop menu"? What is that process's ancestry (e.g. pstree -s THATPID)? There's been a whole discussion about the environment variable being set right or wrong in a *terminal*, but is that really relevant? Is the desktop menu produced by running a shell command? If not, then the terminal is not important.
[SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
From: David Wright Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2022 11:08:28 -0600 > I can't understand this. In a freshly installed Debian, /etc/passwd sets the home directory for root at /root. Here /etc/passwd sets the home directory for root at /home/root. No problem observed. > You may hit snags. Some programs might refuse to run, or do > strange things because they're written to distinguish between > root and an ordinary user. > > But hey, it could be quite exciting, like carrying a cocked > revolver tucked into your waistband. One casual typo, one > misplaced space, and you can blow away a whole disk. Working routinely for about 93 days and I no longer bother to keep fingers crossed. If reinstallation becomes necessary, tough luck. Just another chore. What I'm doing is similar to using DOS years ago; although DOS predates experience of most people reading now. If login is used properly, root shouldn't be more vulnerable than any other account. You're welcome to probe my system. If you find a vulnerability, a post will help or amuse more than me. > ... Puppy ... Incidentally, OpenBox is here with minimal graphics displayed. Most programs start from a terminal. Puppy is a nice system but the graphical interface is more than I want. > ISTR earlier posts where you've run up against permission problems, > but IMHO just running as perpetual root is not a sensible answer. For years my data was on an SD card reformatted to ext3. When switching to a new SD about a month ago, I decided to leave the factory installed FAT file system. No problems. The FAT file system lacks permissions as in ext. Motivation to leave FAT: authorities claim the factory format is optimized. Regards, ... P. -- mobile: +1 778 951 5147 VoIP: +1 604 670 0140 48.7693 N 123.3053 W
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
Hello Greg, Greg Wooledge writes: > On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 02:30:59PM +0200, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: [...] >> No , because in my ~/.xsessionrc (and only there) I have this variable: >> >> export XSESSION_WAS_HERE="Yes" >> >> and if I check that variable via "env | grep HERE" in an LXTerminal >> (or xterm, ot Mate terminal) started in LXDE I can see that variable is >> configured; this is why I'm pretty sure my ~/.xsessionrc is actually >> inherited by my Xsession > > OK. Then it sounds like something in between the Xsession and the shell > is indeed overwriting that XDG_DATA_DIRS variable. From what I see with my tests this is the most plausible explanation I can think of [...] > Remember, one of the tools available to you is looking at the initial > environment of a process, either by using ps with the "e" option, or > by reading the /proc/PID/environ file. Thank you for the suggestion, I was thinking about that but not found some time to test this before; this is what I see... --8<---cut here---start->8--- g@renaissance:~$ pstree -ps $$ systemd(1)---gdm3(6358)---gdm-session-wor(16849)---gdm-x-session(16859)---lxsession(16876)---lxpanel(17020)---lxterminal(17144)---bash(17147)---pstre+ --8<---cut here---end--->8--- environment of gdm3: --8<---cut here---start->8--- g@renaissance:~$ sudo sh -c "tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/6358/environ" LANG=en_US.UTF-8 PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin INVOCATION_ID=6c9d0299ede348bea719251815d25952 JOURNAL_STREAM=8:23700 --8<---cut here---end--->8--- environment of gdm-session-wor: --8<---cut here---start->8--- g@renaissance:~$ sudo sh -c "tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/16849/environ" LANG=en_US.UTF-8 INVOCATION_ID=6c9d0299ede348bea719251815d25952 GDM_SESSION_DBUS_ADDRESS=unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-yPP2BhYk PATH=/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin JOURNAL_STREAM=8:23700 --8<---cut here---end--->8--- environment of gdm-x-session: --8<---cut here---start->8--- g@renaissance:~$ sudo sh -c "tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/16859/environ" XDG_SEAT=seat0 LOGNAME=g USER=g USERNAME=g HOME=/home/g PWD=/home/g SHELL=/bin/bash PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/games XDG_SESSION_TYPE=x11 XDG_VTNR=5 LANG=en_US.utf8 XDG_SESSION_ID=61 XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000 DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:path=/run/user/1000/bus XDG_SESSION_CLASS=user GDM_LANG=en_US.utf8 GDMSESSION=LXDE DESKTOP_SESSION=LXDE XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=LXDE --8<---cut here---end--->8--- environment of lxsession: --8<---cut here---start->8--- g@renaissance:~$ sudo sh -c "tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/16876/environ | grep XDG" XDG_SEAT=seat0 XDG_SESSION_TYPE=x11 XDG_SESSION_CLASS=user XDG_SESSION_ID=61 XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000 XDG_MENU_PREFIX=lxde- XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=LXDE XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=LXDE XDG_CONFIG_HOME=/home/g/.config XDG_DATA_HOME=/home/g/.local/share XDG_VTNR=5 XDG_CONFIG_DIRS=/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/ --8<---cut here---end--->8--- environment of lxpanel: --8<---cut here---start->8--- g@renaissance:~$ sudo sh -c "tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/17020/environ | grep XDG" XDG_SEAT=seat0 XDG_SESSION_TYPE=x11 XDG_SESSION_CLASS=user XDG_SESSION_ID=61 XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000 XDG_MENU_PREFIX=lxde- XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=LXDE XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=LXDE XDG_CONFIG_HOME=/home/g/.config XDG_DATA_HOME=/home/g/.local/share XDG_VTNR=5 XDG_CONFIG_DIRS=/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/ --8<---cut here---end--->8--- environment of lxterminal: --8<---cut here---start->8--- g@renaissance:~$ sudo sh -c "tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/17144/environ | grep XDG" XDG_SEAT=seat0 XDG_SESSION_TYPE=x11 XDG_SESSION_CLASS=user XDG_SESSION_ID=61 XDG_RUNTIME_DIR=/run/user/1000 XDG_MENU_PREFIX=lxde- XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=LXDE XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=LXDE XDG_CONFIG_HOME=/home/g/.config XDG_DATA_HOME=/home/g/.local/share XDG_VTNR=5 XDG_CONFIG_DIRS=/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-profile/etc/xdg:/home/g/.guix-p
Re: [SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 09:24:35AM -0700, pe...@easthope.ca wrote: > What I'm doing is similar to using DOS years ago; although DOS > predates experience of most people reading now. I think you're vastly underestimating the average age of subscribers on this list.
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
Hello David, thank you for your help David writes: > On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 02:55, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: [...] >> The problem is that the lightdm (and LXDE) XDG_DATA_DIRS is missing >> "/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share" and this is the reason why >> applications installed with Guix are not listed in my menu. > > Hi, you wrote a lot of other stuff that I have trimmed, but from > what I have quoted above it seems that your complaint is that > when you use a login shell you get a XDG_DATA_DIRS value > you want, and when you login via lightdm you do not. Yes, the same also happens when using gdm3 > Is that the entire problem that you want to solve? Yes > If so, this suggests to me that your failure case occurs because you > are missing some aspect of ~/.profile from the good case. Please read all I wrote about the fact that all the environment variables I set via ~/.xsessionrc are correctly configures, all but XDG_DATA_DIRS (for example: INFOPATH, GUIX_LOCPATH) [...] > /etc/profile.d/guix.sh > which looks to set XDG_DATA_DIRS similar to what you want. I'm just using a $HOME/.profile instead of /etc/profile.d/guix.sh but the result is the same (but I admit I have not tried installing /etc/profile.d/guix.sh) As I said, the fact that is driving me crazy is that all ~/.xsession variables are in my environment (as configured), all but XDG_DATA_DIRS [...] Thank you! Gio' -- Giovanni Biscuolo Xelera IT Infrastructures signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
On Friday, 6 May 2022 13:11:13 EDT Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 09:24:35AM -0700, pe...@easthope.ca wrote: > > What I'm doing is similar to using DOS years ago; although DOS > > predates experience of most people reading now. > > I think you're vastly underestimating the average age of subscribers on > this list. > > . I think he might be too Greg. I'm 87, and largely bypassed dos on my way to linux in the 90's. We've come a long way, and if dos disappeared yesterday, I'd have bought a 6 pack for a mini-celebration last night. We're still trying to put up with its lack of features other filesystems have given us since. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: [SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
On Freitag, 6. Mai 2022 13:11:13 -04 Greg Wooledge wrote: > On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 09:24:35AM -0700, pe...@easthope.ca wrote: > > What I'm doing is similar to using DOS years ago; although DOS > > predates experience of most people reading now. > > I think you're vastly underestimating the average age of subscribers > on this list. yeah, I started with CP/M on Z80 First touch on a "computer" -keyboard was on a WANG 600 series ... -- Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE
Re: [OT] Re: One-user system.
Eike Lantzsch ZP6CGE (12022-05-06): > > I think you're vastly underestimating the average age of subscribers > > on this list. > yeah, I started with CP/M on Z80 You need to be very old to have used these machines indeed, but probably not old enough to change the average age of a list with thousands of subscribers all by yourself. :-Þ Regards, -- Nicolas George signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
On Fri, 2022-05-06 at 19:07 +0200, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: [...] > environment of lxsession: > > --8<---cut here---start->8--- > > g@renaissance:~$ sudo sh -c "tr '\0' '\n' < /proc/16876/environ | grep XDG" > [XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/ > [...] > --8<---cut here---end--->8--- > > environment of lxpanel: > > --8<---cut here---start->8--- > [...] > XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/local/share:/usr/share:/usr/share/gdm:/var/lib/menu-xdg:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/usr/share/gdm/:/var/lib/menu-xdg/ > > --8<---cut here---end--->8--- > [...] > So the XDG_DATA_DIRS is (re)setted between gdm-x-session and lxsession: > I still have to find by what Looks to me like it changed between lxsession and lxpanel by having a second copy of the path prended to it, but without the trailing / If it wasn't for the '/' difference I'd guess that whatever sets up XDG_DATA_DIRS is following common pattern of prepending to a path like XDG_DATA_DIRS=/some/directory1:/some/directory2:$XDG_DATA_DIRS And that script is being called twice so you get two copies. Could still be something like that, but the path getting processed in some way before concatenating -- Tixy
Spanned Wallpaper (multi-monitor) | Plasma | Wayland
Spanning wallpaper across monitors in Plasma is a pain. A github project, "superpaper," works fine on X. But it doesn't work on Wayland. Does anyone know how to span wallpaper across monitors, in Plasma, using Wayland? (I'm running Sid.) -- Lance Simmons
Re: [SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
Hi, Greg Wooledge wrote: > I think you're vastly underestimating the average age of subscribers on > this list. Huh ? ... What ? ... Age ? ... Whom do you call old ? VIC-20 users don't get old. Since most of the posters here are of over average age we should immediately drop the whole concept in order to avoid a severe mathematical paradox. Have a nice day :) Thomas
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
Hello Greg, Greg Wooledge writes: > On Sat, May 07, 2022 at 12:36:59AM +1000, David wrote: [...] > There's been a whole discussion about the environment variable being > set right or wrong in a *terminal*, but is that really relevant? What's relevant is that lxsession does not have a proper XDG_DATA_DIRS > Is the desktop menu produced by running a shell command? If not, then > the terminal is not important. Sorry I made confusion: I'm not concerned about LXTerminal (or other terminals), it's just that I need a terminal to check my Xsession environment via CLI Thank you! -- Giovanni Biscuolo Xelera IT Infrastructures signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
Le 06/05/2022 à 20:24, Thomas Schmitt a écrit : Hi, Greg Wooledge wrote: I think you're vastly underestimating the average age of subscribers on this list. Huh ? ... What ? ... Age ? ... Whom do you call old ? VIC-20 users don't get old. Since most of the posters here are of over average age we should immediately drop the whole concept in order to avoid a severe mathematical paradox. Have a nice day :) Thomas I my head I am still 13, the age when I discovered the C64...
Re: [SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 08:24:49PM +0200, Thomas Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > Greg Wooledge wrote: > > I think you're vastly underestimating the average age of subscribers on > > this list. > > Huh ? ... What ? ... Age ? ... Whom do you call old ? I never used the word "old". > Since most of the posters here are of over average age we should immediately > drop the whole concept in order to avoid a severe mathematical paradox. I'm fairly sure that most of the *regular* posters here (the ones who actually answer questions) are above the average age of Linux users as a whole. I feel like I'm one of the younger regulars, at merely 52. For subscribers as a whole including lurkers... well, maybe I'd better not try to guess. Insufficient data. And yes, I definitely remember DOS.
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
On Fri, May 06, 2022 at 08:33:49PM +0200, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: > What's relevant is that lxsession does not have a proper XDG_DATA_DIRS You might be misreading things. > Sorry I made confusion: I'm not concerned about LXTerminal (or other > terminals), it's just that I need a terminal to check my Xsession > environment via CLI Yeah, but you assumed that the environment you saw in your terminal would be identical to the environment seen by whatever is building this menu. That may not be the case. The first thing you need to do is figure out what process is actually making that menu. I doubt very much that it's "lxsession". Once you figure that out, then you can see what environment that process started with (from /proc) and then try to figure out how it got that way. Plus whatever else you need to know. Up above, you mentioned that "lxsession does not have a proper XDG_DATA_DIRS", but that's not necessarily unexpected. /proc only shows you what the *initial* environment is. It's the environment that was given to the process by its parent. Processes can change their own environment, with the intent of passing new variables/values down to their children. This is extremely common with shell scripts, for example. Those changes to the running process's copy of the environment will not be visible in /proc. In the case of lxsession, you may be seeing the initial environment of the session, *before* it dotted in your .profile stuff. Possibly. (I'm still not 100% clear on the relationship between the X session launched by the display manager, and this "lxsession".)
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
Hello David and Greg, Giovanni Biscuolo writes: [...] >> On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 02:55, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote: > > [...] > >>> The problem is that the lightdm (and LXDE) XDG_DATA_DIRS is missing >>> "/home/patrizia/.guix-profile/share" and this is the reason why >>> applications installed with Guix are not listed in my menu. I did a test changing the user session started by gdm3 (also tried lightdm): using Mate instead of LXDE is working, I have a correct XDG_DATA_DIRS environment variable (and thus graphical menu and MIME associations in file manager); sorry I did not try this before! Tomorrow I'll try on my other laptop, where I have the same problem Happy hacking! Gio' -- Giovanni Biscuolo Xelera IT Infrastructures signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
Thomas Schmitt wrote on 5/6/22 13:24: Hi, Greg Wooledge wrote: I think you're vastly underestimating the average age of subscribers on this list. Huh ? ... What ? ... Age ? ... Whom do you call old ? I am 83. First desktop was an IBM PC running IBM DOS Version 1, I think. Also saw my first virus on that machine! Those were not "the good old days"! Cheers, Dennis
Re: [SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
On Fri, 06 May 2022 09:24:35 -0700 pe...@easthope.ca wrote: > although DOS > predates experience of most people reading now. Maybe, maybe not. I got started with a KIM-I: 6502 running at 1 MHz, just over 1 kilobyte of RAM. Six seven segment displays and a hex keyboard for data entry. I still have one. See what you did: you started a nostalgia oneUpManship storm. -- Does anybody read signatures any more? https://charlescurley.com https://charlescurley.com/blog/
Re: [SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
On 5/6/22 1:11 PM, Charles Curley wrote: Maybe, maybe not. I got started with a KIM-I: 6502 running at 1 MHz, just over 1 kilobyte of RAM. Six seven segment displays and a hex keyboard for data entry. I still have one. I remember *reading about* the KIM-I (and the Altair, and a few others) in electronics magazines; I started with a TRS-80 Model I myself (and with high school programming classes on an IBM 370/135 at the District Office, with terminals connected over a pair of multiplexed phone lines [and a maximum terminal speed of 300 Baud]). -- JHHL
Re: customize Debian 11 evironment in lightdm (and in general?)
On Sat, 7 May 2022 at 03:16, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote:
> > Hi, you wrote a lot of other stuff that I have trimmed, but from
> > what I have quoted above it seems that your complaint is that
> > when you use a login shell you get a XDG_DATA_DIRS value
> > you want, and when you login via lightdm you do not.
>
> Yes, the same also happens when using gdm3
>
> > Is that the entire problem that you want to solve?
>
> Yes
>
> > If so, this suggests to me that your failure case occurs because you
> > are missing some aspect of ~/.profile from the good case.
>
> Please read all I wrote about the fact that all the environment
> variables I set via ~/.xsessionrc are correctly configures, all but
> XDG_DATA_DIRS (for example: INFOPATH, GUIX_LOCPATH)
Hi Giovanni
If your ~/.profile and your ~/.xsessionrc are as you showed us in
your first message (quoted below), then they do not set any
value for XDG_DATA_DIRS.
On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 02:55, Giovanni Biscuolo wrote:
> This is my ~/.profile:
>
> --8<---cut here---start->8---
>
> ### Guix settings
> #
> # add Guix current path
> export PATH="$HOME/.config/guix/current/bin${PATH:+:}$PATH"
> # Locale path
> export GUIX_LOCPATH="$HOME/.guix-profile/lib/locale"
> # add Guix infopath
> export INFOPATH="$HOME/.config/guix/current/share/info:$INFOPATH"
> # set default Guix profile
> export GUIX_PROFILE="$HOME/.guix-profile"
> # source default Guix profile
> . $GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile
>
> --8<---cut here---end--->8---
>
> and this is my ~/.xsessionrc:
>
> --8<---cut here---start->8---
>
> if [ -f ~/.profile ]; then
> . ~/.profile
> fi
>
> export XSESSION_WAS_HERE="Yes"
>
> --8<---cut here---end--->8---
I do not see XDG_DATA_DIRS being set anywhere there.
Perhaps it is being set by
$GUIX_PROFILE/etc/profile
if so then I'm sorry if I missed where you told us that.
That is why I am suggesting various methods that I successfully
use to configure my environment in LXDE.
These methods bascially are using ~/.xsessionrc to invoke
statements that need to occur at login, similar to what
~/.profile does.
However just invoking these files is insufficient, somewhere
they actually need to export the value of XDG_DATA_DIRS
that you desire.
Where do you try to set XDG_DATA_DIRS ?
Re: Dino
On 3/13/22 08:24, Stefan Kropp wrote: On Sa, 2022-03-12 23:00:33, Mongoose wrote: When may we see Dino messenger included in Debian stable? The dino XMPP IM Messenger is part of Debian [1] Version 0.2.0-3 in stable Version 0.3.0-2~bpo11+1 in stable backports [1] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/dino-im Just being curious. How many of you use XMPP chatting clients? I was just trying some of those available on LINUX including this Dino-Im and conversations app on android, but desktop clients are not really usable. What about SIP phone/messaging? I am trying Linphone on my desktop and android but android version is quite buggy... Any thoughts about these apps?
smtp.frontier.com and exim4
I'm having no luck sending email through frontier.com. Their setup page says to use port 465 but that causes their server to disconnect immediately. Using port 587 I get a lot further but it dies on 'SMTP>> MAIL FROM:<> SIZE=3093 <>: Sender address rejected: Access denied' Though I've played with lots of things I'm pretty sure the only thing that's changed from when all was working well with SuddenLink.net is: /etc/exim4/passwd.client: smtp.frontier.com:mikemcclain...@frontier.com:myPassWd /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf: dc_smarthost='smtp.frontier.com::587' and /etc/email-addresses: root: mikemcclain...@frontier.com mike: mikemcclain...@frontier.com If anyone has exim4 working with frontier.com or simply has suggestions related to what I'm missing I'd love to hear it as I've been chasing this for a couple of weeks now. Thanks, Mike
Re: [SOLVED] Re: One-user system.
James H. H. Lampert writes: > I started with a TRS-80 Model I myself (and with high school > programming classes on an IBM 370/135 at the District Office, with > terminals connected over a pair of multiplexed phone lines [and a > maximum terminal speed of 300 Baud]). Punch cards and an IBM 1620 at university. The first computer I owned I built using a Z80 SBC demo board. Cassette tape mass storage, modified Selectric printer, OCLC crt terminal, homebrew OS. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: Dino
On Sat, May 07, 2022 at 10:17:14AM +0900, A_Man_Without_Clue wrote: > How many of you use XMPP chatting clients? I use Gajim on the desktop and Conversations on Android. I should properly test Dino, it seems like a nice client. > I was just trying some of those available on LINUX including this Dino-Im > and conversations app on android, but desktop clients are not really usable. What is the problem with them? -- Antti Talsta
Re: smtp.frontier.com and exim4
On Sat, May 07, 2022 at 01:52:41AM +, mike.junk...@att.net wrote: > Their setup page says to use port 465 but that causes their server to > disconnect immediately. Sounds like a call to their tech support may be appropriate. > Using port 587 I get a lot further but it dies on > 'SMTP>> MAIL FROM:<> SIZE=3093 > <>: Sender address rejected: Access denied' Well, that's crystal clear. Fix your envelope sender address. You're not sending bounces, right? Then the envelope sender shouldn't be the empty string.
Re: Dino
On 5/7/22 11:14, Antti Talsta wrote: On Sat, May 07, 2022 at 10:17:14AM +0900, A_Man_Without_Clue wrote: How many of you use XMPP chatting clients? I use Gajim on the desktop and Conversations on Android. I should properly test Dino, it seems like a nice client. I was just trying some of those available on LINUX including this Dino-Im and conversations app on android, but desktop clients are not really usable. What is the problem with them? I was just testing Gajim too, but I couldn't get video camera working, and the audio setting too cannot be saved. Also The audio call just doesn't go. So I just removed it. I had problem with Dion-im with video as well. Linphone android just freezes whenever it' s trying to synchronize with messages send from desktop.
Re: wtf just happened to my local staging web server
On 2022-05-05 03:57, Stephan Seitz wrote: Am Do, Mai 05, 2022 at 09:30:42 +0200 schrieb Klaus Singvogel: I think there are more. Yes, I only know wtf as „what the fuck”. Stephan Actually, it's "what the frack" - a nod to the Battlestar Galactica TV/movie franchise, which uses frack as the expletive of choice. These days "frack" also refers to a gas extraction process with terrible environmental consequences, thereby justifying its use as an expletive in the broader world. Fracking is derived from fracturing, the breaking of something, which is appropriate in the case of my staging server suddenly being broken.
