Re: question regarding post-installed packages

[tomas]

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 06:51:39AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

[...]

>   comm -23 <(apt-mark showmanual | sort -u) <(gzip -dc 
> /var/log/installer/initial-status.gz | sed -n 's/^Package: //p' | sort -u)

> Command substitution without '$'? I must be missing something and would 
> appreciate a pointer.

As David pointed out (as a pointer), the <(...) is a bashism for "pretend this 
is
a file name whose content is provided by the enclosed command's output".

Perhaps more readable in the symmetrical variant

  diff -u <(ls dir1) <(ls dir2)

Very handy.

Cheers
 - t


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Re: debian installation issue

[Richard Hector]

On 22/06/21 12:54 am, Steve McIntyre wrote:

[ Apologies, missed this last week... ]

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:


On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 09:20:52AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Vi, 11 iun 21, 15:07:11, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> Secure Boot (Microsoft's attempt to stop you from using Linux) relies on

> UEFI booting, and therefore this was one of the driving forces behind it,
> but not the *only* driving force.  If your machine doesn't use Secure Boot,
> don't worry about it.  It won't affect you.

While I'm not a fan of Microsoft:

https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot#What_is_UEFI_Secure_Boot_NOT.3F


Quoting from there:

 "Microsoft act as a Certification Authority (CA) for SB, and they will
  sign programs on behalf of other trusted organisations so that their
  programs will also run."

Now two questions:

- do you know any other alternative CA besides Microsoft who is
  capable of effectively doing this? In a way that it'd "work"
  with most PC vendors?


I've been in a number of discussions about this over the last few
years, particularly when talking about adding arm64 Secure Boot and
*maybe* finding somebody else to act as CA for that. There's a few
important (but probably not well-understood) aspect ofs the CA role
here:

  * the entity providing the CA needs to be stable (changing things is
expensive and hard)
  * they need to be trustworthy - having an existing long-term business
relationship with the OEMs is a major feature here
  * they need to be *large* - if there is a major mistake that might
cause a problem on a lot of machines in production, the potential
cost liability (and lawsuits) from OEMs is *huge*

There are not many companies who would fit here. Intel and AMD are
both very interested in enhancing trust and security at this kind of
level, but have competing products and ideas, for example.


Is that something that needs to be done by one company? Perhaps because 
of how SecureBoot is implemented?


I'd prefer to be able to add Debian's key either in addition to or 
instead of Microsoft's, which could also be happily installed alongside 
those of Intel, AMD, your favourite government security agency or 
whoever. And Debian can get theirs signed by whichever of those they 
might think is appropriate. But I want to be able to reduce that list to 
just Debian's, or just the EFF's, or mine. Whatever combination I choose.


I think that should all work ok? Changing things, rather than being 
expensive and hard, should just be a matter of either getting a new 
organisation to sign Debian's key, and/or having them revoke one. As one 
of those on the list.


As an aside, I'd like to see this with web certificates too - I want to 
be able to get my cert signed by LetsEncrypt _and_ whatever commercial 
CA or CAs I choose, so if one of them does something stupid and needs to 
be removed from the list of approved CAs, it doesn't break the internet, 
because any significant site will have its certs signed by others as well.


Richard

Re: question regarding post-installed packages

[mick crane]

On 2021-06-23 08:22, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 06:51:39AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

[...]

	comm -23 <(apt-mark showmanual | sort -u) <(gzip -dc 
/var/log/installer/initial-status.gz | sed -n 's/^Package: //p' | sort 
-u)


Command substitution without '$'? I must be missing something and 
would

appreciate a pointer.


As David pointed out (as a pointer), the <(...) is a bashism for
"pretend this is
a file name whose content is provided by the enclosed command's 
output".


Perhaps more readable in the symmetrical variant

  diff -u <(ls dir1) <(ls dir2)

Very handy.

does not the excellent guide also say not to try to do anything with the 
output of "ls" ?

mick

--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: question regarding post-installed packages

[tomas]

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 08:49:42AM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> On 2021-06-23 08:22, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> >Perhaps more readable in the symmetrical variant
> >
> >  diff -u <(ls dir1) <(ls dir2)
> >
> >Very handy.
> >
> does not the excellent guide also say not to try to do anything with
> the output of "ls" ?

It was just intended as a minimal example. I wouldn't bury the
above deep in a script working quietly in some machine room,
definitely not.

But then, I'd consider it twice to use a bashism down there; in
the quick command line, where you can deal with the fallout should
things move, it seems OK.

So I'd say "it depends" :)

Cheers
 - t


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Re: Web log analysis

[Richard Hector]

On 27/05/21 9:55 pm, Richard Hector wrote:

Hi all,

I need to get a handle on what my web servers are doing.


Apologies for my lack of response.

Thanks for all of the useful and interesting replies.

I'll look into this further later; in the meantime I think I solved my 
immediate needs with tools like grep :-)


Cheers,
Richard

Apparmor messages on LXC container, after host upgrade to buster

[Richard Hector]

Hi all,

This is a copy of a message I posted to lxc-users last week; maybe more 
people will see it here :-)


I'm getting messages like this after an upgrade of the host from stretch 
to buster:


Jun 18 12:09:08 postgres kernel: [131022.470073] audit: type=1400 
audit(1623974948.239:107): apparmor="DENIED" operation="mount" 
info="failed flags match" error=-13 profile="lxc-container-default-cgns" 
name="/" pid=15558 comm="(ionclean)" flags="rw, rslave"


I've seen several similar things from web searches, such as this from 
the lxc-users list, 5 years ago:


https://lxc-users.linuxcontainers.narkive.com/3t0leW0p/apparmor-denied-messages-in-the-logs

The suggestion seems to be that it doesn't matter, as long as mounts are 
actually working ok (all filesystems seem to be mounted).


But if the mounts are working, what triggers the error? If the mounts 
are set up outside the container, why is the container trying to mount 
anything? There's nothing in /etc/fstab in the container.


In case it's relevant, /var/lib/lxc//rootfs is a mount on the 
host, for all containers. All containers have additional mounts defined 
in the lxc config, and those filesystems are also mounts on the host, 
living under /guestfs. They're all lvm volumes, with xfs, as are the 
root filesystems.


Any tips welcome.

Cheers,
Richard

Re: Messed up Email

[Gene Heskett]

On Tuesday 22 June 2021 23:46:24 Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On Tue Jun 22 11:11:38 2021 Gene Heskett  wrote:
>  > On Tuesday 22 June 2021 07:02:25 Richard Owlett wrote:
>  >> On 06/22/2021 04:44 AM, Brad Rogers wrote:
>  >>> In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to
>  >>> make it absolutely clear;
>  >>>
>  >>> gmail != email
>  >>>
>  >>> or, in words;
>  >>>
>  >>> gmail IS NOT email
>  >>>
>  >>> There may be vast swathes of overlap, but don't expect google to
>  >>> do anything right.
>  >>>
>  >>> All that google offer is for THEIR benefit, not yours.
>  >>
>  >> One reason I pay a local supplier for email service -- effectively
>  >> it is cheaper than any so called "free service".
>  >
>  > Doesn't your ISP provide an email server? In my neck of the woods,
>  > its part of the services an ISP provides for a basic 10 megabaud
>  > connection.
>
> Our ISP (Telus) recently decided to get out of the e-mail and web
> hosting business.  All e-mail accounts have been transferred (e-mail
> addresses and all) to Google.  I believe the appropriate term is
> "sold down the river".

Indeed, and w/o a paddle. :( I think I'd vote with my wallet.

> I was doing e-mail through a third party long before getting involved
> with Telus, so I don't have to worry about it.  It's a few extra
> dollars, but IMHO it's money well spent.

Well, we have congress looking into the msm, maybe something good will 
come of it. Our constitution seems to be for sale to the highest bidder 
though.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

cdrskin: burn cdda with cue sheet file

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

I am trying to burn a bunch of WAV files onto an audio CD with cdrskin
using a cue-file. The only reference about how to create these files I
could find is at
https://web.archive.org/web/20151223114027/http://digitalx.org/cue-sheet/
where under "Examples" example no. 3 shows how to create a cue file with
multiple source files. So for testing I tried a cue file with the
following contents:

PERFORMER "Unbekannter Interpret"
TITLE "Unbekanntes Album"
FILE "/home/klappnase/Musik/Japan/Barbara/Barbarous Virginity/01 Can! Can! 
Can!.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 01 AUDIO
PERFORMER "Unbekannter Interpret"
TITLE "01 Can! Can! Can!"
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "/home/klappnase/Musik/Japan/Barbara/Barbarous Virginity/02 Life in 
Heaven.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 02 AUDIO
PERFORMER "Unbekannter Interpret"
TITLE "02 Life in Heaven"
INDEX 01 00:00:00
FILE "/home/klappnase/Musik/Japan/Barbara/Barbarous Virginity/03 Dest.wav" WAVE
  TRACK 03 AUDIO
PERFORMER "Unbekannter Interpret"
TITLE "03 Dest"
INDEX 01 00:00:00

According to that digitalx.org page this looks "legal" to me, however
it does not work, instead I get the following eror:

cdrskin: FAILURE : In cue sheet file: Multiple occurrences of FILE

So my question is:
is there any reference how to set up a cue sheet for cdrskin that shows
how it should be done, or is this simply not possible using a cuefile?

Thanks in advance, and best regards

Michael

.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Our missions are peaceful -- not for conquest.  When we do battle, it
is only because we have no choice.
-- Kirk, "The Squire of Gothos", stardate 2124.5

Re: cdrskin: burn cdda with cue sheet file

[Reco]

Hi.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 11:09:29AM +0200, Michael Lange wrote:
> According to that digitalx.org page this looks "legal" to me, however
> it does not work, instead I get the following eror:
> 
> cdrskin: FAILURE : In cue sheet file: Multiple occurrences of FILE

cdrskin(1) says:

cuefile=path
Read a session description from a cue sheet file in CDRWIN format. Base
the tracks on a *single file* which is given in the sheet by command FILE.

> So my question is:
> is there any reference how to set up a cue sheet for cdrskin that shows
> how it should be done, or is this simply not possible using a cuefile?

Your best option is to merge your files into one big file and to produce
an appropriate .cue for that file.

Reco

Re: Font color selection in MATE terminal

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/22/2021 11:23 AM, Siard wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 17:32:55, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Ma, 22 iun 21, 08:14:08, Richard Owlett wrote:

I have vision problems.
I *MUST* have black on white text in all cases.
The program I'm running gives out colored text.
The MATE Help screen is NOT helpful.
Help please.


This has already been addressed before: you must change the color scheme
in the setting for MATE Terminal, to have it use black/dark gray/etc. as
needed for everything related to text.

The exact steps are different for each terminal emulator and I don't
have MATE Terminal installed here.


Well, I have. In the MATE Terminal settings (Edit > Profile Preferences),
tab 'Colors', under 'Palette', set 'Built-in schemes' to 'Custom' and
change every color in the color palette to black.

Here is a screenshot:
https://i.postimg.cc/2yv17y3Y/mateterminalcolors.png



I tried that yesterday and it didn't work.
I tried it again this morning, after a good night's sleep.
It still didn't work. BUT it finally registered that the settings I 
changed were *NOT* being kept as in your screenshot.


I am running Debian 9.13 with MATE Terminal 1.16.3
Are you using the same?
Suggestions?
Thank you.

Re: cdrskin: burn cdda with cue sheet file

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Michael Lange wrote:
> > https://web.archive.org/web/20151223114027/http://digitalx.org/cue-sheet/
> > cdrskin: FAILURE : In cue sheet file: Multiple occurrences of FILE

Reco wrote:
> cdrskin(1) says:
> a *single file* which is given in the sheet by command FILE.

Indeed. cdrskin expects a single FILE command in the CUE file.
That's how i have read the CDRWIN CUE descriptions years ago.

The above web page about cue-sheet says
  "FILE commands must appear before any other command except CATALOG.
   This rule contradicts the examples on this site: Note"

The plural of "commands" might mean that more than one FILE command is
allowed, which the CUE file interpreter shall concatenate.
cdrskin does not do that. But the same effect can be achieved by following
Reco's proposal to concatenate the files before the cdrskin run.


> > is there any reference how to set up a cue sheet for cdrskin

Besides the man page text about option cuefile= with its list of supported
CUE file commands, there is
  https://sources.debian.org/src/libburn/1.5.2-1/doc/cdtext.txt/#L650

--

The intention of supporting CUE files in cdrskin was to handle the case of
a single input data file and multiple tracks.

The case of a 1:1 relation between input files and tracks is served by the
cdrecord-ish style of submitting multiple track sources and the non-cdrecord
option input_sheet_v07t=.
See the man page of cdrskin for input_sheet_v07t= and the example
  Write audio tracks and CD-TEXT to CD:

Further there is an example at
  https://sources.debian.org/src/libburn/1.5.2-1/doc/cdtext.txt/#L600


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: cdrskin: burn cdda with cue sheet file

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-06-23 at 06:26, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Michael Lange wrote:
>> > https://web.archive.org/web/20151223114027/http://digitalx.org/cue-sheet/
>> > cdrskin: FAILURE : In cue sheet file: Multiple occurrences of FILE
> 
> Reco wrote:
>> cdrskin(1) says:
>> a *single file* which is given in the sheet by command FILE.
> 
> Indeed. cdrskin expects a single FILE command in the CUE file.
> That's how i have read the CDRWIN CUE descriptions years ago.

That strikes me as intuitively wrong, just based on terminology.

I have always intuitively understood the term "cue sheet" to be derived
in some way from the context of stage and/or screen acting, and to refer
to a list of items which are to be cued up and the order in and timing
with which they are to be so cued up. That necessarily implies not only
the possibility of having multiple items in the list, but indeed that it
probably would not usually make sense to bother with the sheet if there
were only going to be one item.

https://www.ascap.com/news-events/articles/2005/cuesheets seems to, at
least approximately, back up that conception.

I have never (that I recall) encountered cdrskin prior to reading this
thread, but if I had encountered a program that limited cue sheets to
having only one entry, I would have immediately considered that a
definitional bug - quite possibly on the design level.

If a "cue sheet" in an optical-media-creation context is indeed supposed
to be limited to only one item, then I severely question the choice of
that term (by whoever made that choice, all those years ago).

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: cdrskin: burn cdda with cue sheet file

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

The Wanderer wrote:
> I have always intuitively understood the term "cue sheet" to be derived
> in some way from the context of stage and/or screen acting

I think it stems from the name of the data structure by which the layout
of a SAO-Session is described to the drive by the SCSI command SEND CUE
SHEET. It is supposed to be followed by a sequence of WRITE(10) commands
which deliver the payload data as a single unstructured stream.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: cdrskin: burn cdda with cue sheet file

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-06-23 at 07:02, Thomas Schmitt wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>> I have always intuitively understood the term "cue sheet" to be
>> derived in some way from the context of stage and/or screen acting
> 
> I think it stems from the name of the data structure by which the
> layout of a SAO-Session is described to the drive by the SCSI command
> SEND CUE SHEET.

That would just push the question of where the name came from back and
up one level, then...

> It is supposed to be followed by a sequence of WRITE(10) commands 
> which deliver the payload data as a single unstructured stream.

...and that would, at least at a glance, seem to make it seem even
*more* like the term doesn't really fit the way it's being applied.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: A feasible method to add examples to man pages?

[rhkramer]

On Tuesday, June 22, 2021 12:16:19 PM Stefan Monnier wrote:
> > That's what I get for blindly copying and pasting the "directions" from
> > Github. I should've have just told Monnier that the whole shebang
> > can be installed locally, which renders inoperative his nitpick about
> > not having the Net when he needs to cheat the most (or most often).
> 
> The difference is that the manpages get installed automatically along
> with the software, so they're always there, always uptodate, without me
> having to think about it beforehand, without having to choose where to
> install them, nor remember where I installed them.
> 
> Don't get me wrong: all it means is that I think we want to keep *some*
> examples in the manpages.  IOW, I was just pointing out that the main
> benefit of manpages is that they're local and work in almost all
> situations.  They don't need to contain all the info you'll ever want to
> know, but I usually welcome a few examples in there ;-)

Eventually those extra examples for the man pages could become a local, 
automatically installed thing, similiar to the man pages -- there might be a 
command analogous to man, but instead exam[ple] (or similar, or wiki), invoked 
like:

exam ls
exam tar

etc.

Re: cdrskin: burn cdda with cue sheet file

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > [SEND CUE SHEET] is supposed to be followed by a sequence of WRITE(10)
> > commands which deliver the payload data as a single unstructured stream.

The Wanderer wrote:
> ...and that would, at least at a glance, seem to make it seem even
> *more* like the term doesn't really fit the way it's being applied.

According to MMC-6 of 2010 complaints about SCSI nomenclature should probably
be sent to

  INCITS Secretariat
  National Committee for Information Technology Standards
  Information Technology Institute
  1101 K Street NW, Suite 610
  Washington DC 20005

The term slipped through the X3T10 Technical Committee in 1997 when they
wrote MMC-1, the optical drive section of SCSI-3. Probably it stems from
an earlier manufacturer-specific set of CD burner commands.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Font color selection in MATE terminal

[Siard]

Richard Owlett:
> Siard:
> > In the MATE Terminal settings (Edit > Profile Preferences),
> > tab 'Colors', under 'Palette', set 'Built-in schemes' to 'Custom'
> > and change every color in the color palette to black.
> > 
> > Here is a screenshot:
> > https://i.postimg.cc/2yv17y3Y/mateterminalcolors.png
>
> I tried that yesterday and it didn't work.
> I tried it again this morning, after a good night's sleep.
> It still didn't work. BUT it finally registered that the settings I 
> changed were *NOT* being kept as in your screenshot.
> 
> I am running Debian 9.13 with MATE Terminal 1.16.3
> Are you using the same?
> Suggestions?
> Thank you.

I am running Debian 11.0 with MATE Terminal 1.24.1.
This morning, the colors were still being kept and it still worked.
Alas, I do not know anything about older versions.

Re: Messed up Email

[Michael Grant]

On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 07:36:33PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Tue 22 Jun 2021 at 10:44:55 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> 
> > In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to make it
> > absolutely clear;
> > 
> > gmail != email
> 
> Nonsense.
>  
> > or, in words;
> > 
> > gmail IS NOT email
> 
> More nonsense.

Not nonsense at all.

gmail is a mail reader (like as Thunderbird, Mutt, Pine, or Outlook (the
program) + a mail server + domain name (gmail.com).

email is set standards which gmail implements.

email is NOT gmail and let's not forget this.

I'm sure most everyone on this list is tech savy enough to understand
that.  Brian, it would astonish me if you don't, but your reply is
difficult to understand your intent whether it's toungue in cheek or
not.

It's quite shocking to me to have conversations with young people,
even into their early 20s who do not understand this distinction.  And
there are many people who do not understand the distinction between a
standards based system such as mail or the web and a proprietary
system such as facebook, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc etc.  And
many of them simply don't care, for them, they just use it because
their friends do.

Michael Grant


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Re: how to let user access cell phone

[Long Wind]

 Thank Celejar!i reply late because yahoo is partially blockedafter reading 
your mail, i have found solutioni can invoke jmtpfs as user, it's what i need



  

Re: Clipboard

[William Lee Valentine]

My comment may be rudimentary.

I copy onto the Windows clipboard all the time (by selecting text with
the mouse and then pressing control/C). I am not then able to paste the
selected text into a text document with one click: I must minimize the
original document (or close it), and I then have two choices.

(1) I can open a second document, click at some point within it, and
press control/V to paste my text into the second document.

(2) I can execute a text editor like Notepad and press control/V, to
paste the selected text into the text editor. I can then tell the text
editor to save the new file as a text document.

-- William Lee Valentine

[Hi

I have been trying to find the Clipboard facility in Open Office, ie the
facility where you can copy up to 24 items (in MS Word), collect them
onto the clipboard, and then paste them into a Text Document with 1
click, but I could not find it.  Can anyone tell me how to use this in
Open Office?  Thanks very much for your help.

Kind regards,

Michael Lermer]


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: debian installation issue

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 23 iun 21, 19:43:14, Richard Hector wrote:
> 
> Is that something that needs to be done by one company? Perhaps because of
> how SecureBoot is implemented?
 
For a logistic point of view, at least for x86, Microsoft appears to be 
the natural choice: many mainboard manufacturers, but most hardware will 
end up running Windows anyway[1].

> I'd prefer to be able to add Debian's key either in addition to or instead
> of Microsoft's, which could also be happily installed alongside those of
> Intel, AMD, your favourite government security agency or whoever. And Debian
> can get theirs signed by whichever of those they might think is appropriate.
> But I want to be able to reduce that list to just Debian's, or just the
> EFF's, or mine. Whatever combination I choose.

In my limited understanding and experience with Secure Boot it's mostly 
up to the mainboard manufacturer.

As far as I can tell for the ASRock board here it's possible to provide 
a machine owner key, possibly also to revoke all other keys. Even if it 
does work, I'm pretty sure 99% of home users don't actually care about 
any of this.

[1] Yes, I'm aware there are lots of x86 Chromebooks, but those are 
special purpose hardware, and even there it might make sense to include 
Microsoft's key, just in case someone wants to attempt installing 
Windows on the limited storage available :D

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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At least a partial solution - was [Re: Font color selection in MATE terminal]

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/23/2021 04:32 AM, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 06/22/2021 11:23 AM, Siard wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2021 17:32:55, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

On Ma, 22 iun 21, 08:14:08, Richard Owlett wrote:

I have vision problems.
I *MUST* have black on white text in all cases.
The program I'm running gives out colored text.
The MATE Help screen is NOT helpful.
Help please.


This has already been addressed before: you must change the color scheme
in the setting for MATE Terminal, to have it use black/dark gray/etc. as
needed for everything related to text.

The exact steps are different for each terminal emulator and I don't
have MATE Terminal installed here.


Well, I have. In the MATE Terminal settings (Edit > Profile Preferences),
tab 'Colors', under 'Palette', set 'Built-in schemes' to 'Custom' and
change every color in the color palette to black.

Here is a screenshot:
https://i.postimg.cc/2yv17y3Y/mateterminalcolors.png



I tried that yesterday and it didn't work.
I tried it again this morning, after a good night's sleep.
It still didn't work. BUT it finally registered that the settings I 
changed were *NOT* being kept as in your screenshot.


I am running Debian 9.13 with MATE Terminal 1.16.3
Are you using the same?
Suggestions?
Thank you.



I have a secondary machine with Debian 10.7 which uses
MATE Terminal 1.20.2. That does save changes made using
Edit->Profile Preferences. I don't know yet if that solves all my 
problems with the local version of cht.sh discussed elsewhere.

What command to use to output to a text file?

[Sharon Kimble]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512


I'm hoping that you folk can help me out of my predicament?

I have transferred some files in their directories to an external drive
mounted in a caddy.

How can I get a text file saved from an output of everything on the
drive, please? What commands do I need to use and what would be the
syntax of it/them please?

Thanks
Sharon.
- -- 
Debian 10.9, fluxbox 1.3.7, emacs 28.0.50, org 9.4.6
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Re: question regarding post-installed packages

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 23 iun 21, 09:22:24, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 06:51:39AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > comm -23 <(apt-mark showmanual | sort -u) <(gzip -dc 
> > /var/log/installer/initial-status.gz | sed -n 's/^Package: //p' | sort -u)
> 
> > Command substitution without '$'? I must be missing something and would 
> > appreciate a pointer.
> 
> As David pointed out (as a pointer), the <(...) is a bashism for "pretend 
> this is
> a file name whose content is provided by the enclosed command's output".
> 
> Perhaps more readable in the symmetrical variant
> 
>   diff -u <(ls dir1) <(ls dir2)
> 
> Very handy.

It certainly appears to be very handy, though I generally try to steer 
away from bashims in scripts, and for interactive use my primary shell 
is now fish.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: question regarding post-installed packages

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 23 iun 21, 16:49:28, David wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 at 13:52, Andrei POPESCU  wrote:
> > On Ma, 22 iun 21, 10:57:39, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> 
> > Mistery solved by looking at the html part (the '/' are meant to denote
> > italic), the correct command is:
> >  comm -23 <(apt-mark showmanual | sort -u) <(gzip -dc 
> > /var/log/installer/initial-status.gz | sed -n 's/^Package: //p' | sort -u)
> 
> > > It looks like a bash command, if you make the following changes:
> > > 1) Join the two lines into one.
> > > 2) Remove leading / and trailing / characters.
> 
> > Command substitution without '$'? I must be missing something and would
> > appreciate a pointer.
> 
> http://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashGuide/InputAndOutput#Process_Substitution
 
Thank you, I searched for 'substitution' in the bash manpage and stopped 
at 'Command Substitution'. 

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: What command to use to output to a text file?

[steve]

Hi,


How can I get a text file saved from an output of everything on the
drive, please? What commands do I need to use and what would be the
syntax of it/them please?


Not sure I understand perfectly, but for example with

ls -l > my_text_file.txt

you will get the output of 'ls -l' in the file my_text_file.txt

The '>' does the trick.

If you want to append some text to an already existing file, use '>>'.

Hope that helps.

Best

Steve

Re: What command to use to output to a text file?

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 23 iun 21, 13:36:27, Sharon Kimble wrote:
> 
> I'm hoping that you folk can help me out of my predicament?
> 
> I have transferred some files in their directories to an external drive
> mounted in a caddy.
> 
> How can I get a text file saved from an output of everything on the
> drive, please? What commands do I need to use and what would be the
> syntax of it/them please?

It's unclear what information you expect to have in the text file, 
please elaborate on that (preferably with examples).

For a simple listing of files with full path something like below should 
do what you want:

cd /path/to/external_drive
find > files_on_external_drive.txt


Hope this helps,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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apt tells me that grub-efi, grub2-common are no longer needed

[Markus]

  
  
Hi, just before and also after today's "apt full-upgrade" apt tells
me that:

The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
efibootmgr grub-efi-amd64-bin grub-efi-amd64-signed grub2-common
libappindicator3-1 libcanberra-gtk3-0 libcanberra-gtk3-module
libclutter-gtk-1.0-0 libdbusmenu-glib4 libdbusmenu-gtk3-4 libindicator3-7
libupsclient4 linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-common linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
linux-kbuild-4.19 linux-kbuild-5.9 mokutil shim-helpers-amd64-signed
shim-signed-common
shim-unsigned


I don't have a good feeling when I see that it allows me to remove 
"efibootmgr grub-efi-amd64-bin grub-efi-amd64-signed grub2-common"



What is wrong here? I am on Buster and used kernel
5.10.0-0.bpo.5-amd64. With today's

full-upgrade 5.10.0-0.bpo.7-amd64 came in.


Cheers
  

"ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Vincent Lefevre]

On a Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) machine:

$ ls -ld /etc/systemd
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 0 2021-04-19 09:40:41 /etc/systemd
$ ls /etc/systemd
ls: cannot open directory '/etc/systemd': No such file or directory

Any explanation???

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-06-23 at 09:59, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

> On a Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) machine:
> 
> $ ls -ld /etc/systemd
> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 0 2021-04-19 09:40:41 /etc/systemd
> $ ls /etc/systemd
> ls: cannot open directory '/etc/systemd': No such file or directory
> 
> Any explanation???

On a non-systemd machine, I get:


$ ls -ld /etc/systemd/
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jul 23  2019 /etc/systemd/
$ ls /etc/systemd/
system  user


It seems possible that the 4 vs. 3 may be notable.

An empty directory will normally report 2: the '.' link from inside it,
and the named link from the parent directory. 4 here reflects the two
'..' links from the two visible subdirectories; 3 would indicate that
one of those four links is missing on your system, and depending on
which one that is, it seems possible that that could lead to misbehaviors.

It could be useful to check on this with other tools. For a start, what
does

$ stat /etc/systemd/

report?


Also, my first thought was to verify that ls is running the way you
think it is. What do the following commands give you?

$ type ls
$ echo $LS_DEFAULT_OPTIONS

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Roberto C . Sánchez]

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 03:59:51PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On a Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) machine:
> 
> $ ls -ld /etc/systemd
> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 0 2021-04-19 09:40:41 /etc/systemd
> $ ls /etc/systemd
> ls: cannot open directory '/etc/systemd': No such file or directory
> 
> Any explanation???
> 
Is the result the same if you specify /bin/ls?  I am wondering if 'ls'
might be an alias in your shell with some strange option(s) defined.

Regards,

-Roberto

-- 
Roberto C. Sánchez

Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2021-06-23 10:02:01 -0400, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:
> Is the result the same if you specify /bin/ls?

Yes:

$ /bin/ls /etc/systemd
/bin/ls: cannot open directory '/etc/systemd': No such file or directory

> I am wondering if 'ls' might be an alias in your shell with some
> strange option(s) defined.

Yes, "ls" is aliased in my shell (zsh). That's why I also tried
after running sh (dash), where I have no aliases.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: apt tells me that grub-efi, grub2-common are no longer needed

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 03:55:04PM +0200, Markus wrote:
>Hi, just before and also after today's "apt full-upgrade" apt tells me
>that:
> The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer 
> required:
> efibootmgr grub-efi-amd64-bin grub-efi-amd64-signed grub2-common
> libappindicator3-1 libcanberra-gtk3-0 libcanberra-gtk3-module
> libclutter-gtk-1.0-0 libdbusmenu-glib4 libdbusmenu-gtk3-4 libindicator3-7
> libupsclient4 linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
> linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-common linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
> linux-kbuild-4.19 linux-kbuild-5.9 mokutil shim-helpers-amd64-signed
> shim-signed-common
> shim-unsigned

This may not be helpful for you, but this is *exactly* the kind of thing
that led me to turning off apt's autoremove feature.  In my experience, it
does more harm than good.

I did it by marking every package as "never-autoremove", by creating the
following one-line text file:

unicorn:~$ cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99local 
APT::NeverAutoRemove ".";

There may be other ways to do it.

If you don't like that solution, which I'll admit is not for everyone,
my best advice would be to pick whichever package(s) in the above output
you care about, and mark them as manually installed, using apt-mark(8).

Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2021-06-23 10:11:57 -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> On 2021-06-23 at 09:59, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> 
> > On a Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) machine:
> > 
> > $ ls -ld /etc/systemd
> > drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 0 2021-04-19 09:40:41 /etc/systemd
> > $ ls /etc/systemd
> > ls: cannot open directory '/etc/systemd': No such file or directory
> > 
> > Any explanation???
> 
> On a non-systemd machine, I get:
> 
> $ ls -ld /etc/systemd/
> drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jul 23  2019 /etc/systemd/
> $ ls /etc/systemd/
> system  user
> 
> It seems possible that the 4 vs. 3 may be notable.
> 
> An empty directory will normally report 2: the '.' link from inside it,
> and the named link from the parent directory. 4 here reflects the two
> '..' links from the two visible subdirectories; 3 would indicate that
> one of those four links is missing on your system, and depending on
> which one that is, it seems possible that that could lead to misbehaviors.

These are systemd machines, and on the other machines on the network,
I get 6.

> It could be useful to check on this with other tools. For a start, what
> does
> 
> $ stat /etc/systemd/
> 
> report?

  File: /etc/systemd/
  Size: 0   Blocks: 8  IO Block: 4096   directory
Device: 17h/23d Inode: 118 Links: 3
Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (0/root)   Gid: (0/root)
Access: 2021-04-19 09:40:10.717284464 +0200
Modify: 2021-04-19 09:40:41.893170056 +0200
Change: 2021-04-19 09:40:41.941169879 +0200
 Birth: -

The number of links is indeed strange.

I also suppose that the size should not be 0.

> Also, my first thought was to verify that ls is running the way you
> think it is. What do the following commands give you?
> 
> $ type ls
> $ echo $LS_DEFAULT_OPTIONS

$ type ls
ls is /bin/ls
$ echo $LS_DEFAULT_OPTIONS

$ 

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 03:59:51PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On a Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) machine:
> 
> $ ls -ld /etc/systemd
> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 0 2021-04-19 09:40:41 /etc/systemd

The "0" here is suspicious, and would be an indicator of wrongness
if this is ext4.

What type of file system is it?

> $ ls /etc/systemd
> ls: cannot open directory '/etc/systemd': No such file or directory
> 
> Any explanation???

If it's ext4, then my guess is "corrupted file system, fsck it".

If it's btrfs or zfs, then my guess is "btrfs or zfs voodoo, consult
a shaman".

Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[The Wanderer]

On 2021-06-23 at 10:26, Vincent Lefevre wrote:

> On 2021-06-23 10:11:57 -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
>
>> On 2021-06-23 at 09:59, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
>> 
>>> On a Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) machine:
>>> 
>>> $ ls -ld /etc/systemd
>>> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 0 2021-04-19 09:40:41 /etc/systemd
>>> $ ls /etc/systemd
>>> ls: cannot open directory '/etc/systemd': No such file or directory
>>> 
>>> Any explanation???

>> It could be useful to check on this with other tools. For a start, what
>> does
>> 
>> $ stat /etc/systemd/
>> 
>> report?
> 
>   File: /etc/systemd/
>   Size: 0   Blocks: 8  IO Block: 4096   directory
> Device: 17h/23d Inode: 118 Links: 3
> Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (0/root)   Gid: (0/root)
> Access: 2021-04-19 09:40:10.717284464 +0200
> Modify: 2021-04-19 09:40:41.893170056 +0200
> Change: 2021-04-19 09:40:41.941169879 +0200
>  Birth: -
> 
> The number of links is indeed strange.
> 
> I also suppose that the size should not be 0.

It almost certainly should not. On my system, the size is reported as
4096, matching the size of the directory as reported by 'ls -ld'. I also
have a birth timestamp, and the number of links (4) is different;
everything else either matches, or is expected to differ.

I didn't notice that this was 0 in your initial report; I somehow
managed to conflate the 4096 from my own 'ls' output as appearing in
yours.

>> Also, my first thought was to verify that ls is running the way you
>> think it is. What do the following commands give you?
>> 
>> $ type ls
>> $ echo $LS_DEFAULT_OPTIONS
> 
> $ type ls
> ls is /bin/ls
> $ echo $LS_DEFAULT_OPTIONS
> 
> $ 

So that's a dead end.

At a glance, it's looking as if you have a corrupt inode here. I second
Greg's suggestion of a fsck or equivalent, and I'd also suggest that
(probably after that's done) you do some checking to validate that the
underlying disk is still OK.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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Re: What command to use to output to a text file?

[Jude DaShiell]

ls could be used with the following suffix:
ls  | tee -f listing.txt


On Wed, 23 Jun 2021, Andrei POPESCU wrote:

> On Mi, 23 iun 21, 13:36:27, Sharon Kimble wrote:
> >
> > I'm hoping that you folk can help me out of my predicament?
> >
> > I have transferred some files in their directories to an external drive
> > mounted in a caddy.
> >
> > How can I get a text file saved from an output of everything on the
> > drive, please? What commands do I need to use and what would be the
> > syntax of it/them please?
>
> It's unclear what information you expect to have in the text file,
> please elaborate on that (preferably with examples).
>
> For a simple listing of files with full path something like below should
> do what you want:
>
> cd /path/to/external_drive
> find > files_on_external_drive.txt
>
>
> Hope this helps,
> Andrei
>

Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2021-06-23 16:26:10 +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2021-06-23 10:11:57 -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> > It could be useful to check on this with other tools. For a start, what
> > does
> > 
> > $ stat /etc/systemd/
> > 
> > report?
> 
>   File: /etc/systemd/
>   Size: 0   Blocks: 8  IO Block: 4096   directory
> Device: 17h/23d Inode: 118 Links: 3
> Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (0/root)   Gid: (0/root)
> Access: 2021-04-19 09:40:10.717284464 +0200
> Modify: 2021-04-19 09:40:41.893170056 +0200
> Change: 2021-04-19 09:40:41.941169879 +0200
>  Birth: -

And while I'm at it, "strace" gives:

[...]
stat("/etc/systemd", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
openat(AT_FDCWD, "/etc/systemd", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_CLOEXEC|O_DIRECTORY) = 
-1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
[...]

So, on the same directory, "stat" succeeds, but not "openat".

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Nicolas George]

Vincent Lefevre (12021-06-23):
> And while I'm at it, "strace" gives:
> 
> [...]
> stat("/etc/systemd", {st_mode=S_IFDIR|0755, st_size=0, ...}) = 0
> openat(AT_FDCWD, "/etc/systemd", O_RDONLY|O_NONBLOCK|O_CLOEXEC|O_DIRECTORY) = 
> -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
> [...]
> 
> So, on the same directory, "stat" succeeds, but not "openat".

Have you looked at dmesg?

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: What command to use to output to a text file?

[Sharon Kimble]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Andrei POPESCU  writes:

> On Mi, 23 iun 21, 13:36:27, Sharon Kimble wrote:
>> 
>> I'm hoping that you folk can help me out of my predicament?
>> 
>> I have transferred some files in their directories to an external drive
>> mounted in a caddy.
>> 
>> How can I get a text file saved from an output of everything on the
>> drive, please? What commands do I need to use and what would be the
>> syntax of it/them please?
>
> It's unclear what information you expect to have in the text file, 
> please elaborate on that (preferably with examples).
>
> For a simple listing of files with full path something like below should 
> do what you want:
>
> cd /path/to/external_drive
> find > files_on_external_drive.txt
>
>
> Hope this helps,
> Andrei

Thank you very much Andrei, this solved the problem very easily.

Thanks
Sharon.
- -- 
Debian 10.9, fluxbox 1.3.7, emacs 28.0.50, org 9.4.6
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Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2021-06-23 10:27:01 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 03:59:51PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > On a Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) machine:
> > 
> > $ ls -ld /etc/systemd
> > drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 0 2021-04-19 09:40:41 /etc/systemd
> 
> The "0" here is suspicious, and would be an indicator of wrongness
> if this is ext4.
> 
> What type of file system is it?

aufs

> > $ ls /etc/systemd
> > ls: cannot open directory '/etc/systemd': No such file or directory
> > 
> > Any explanation???
> 
> If it's ext4, then my guess is "corrupted file system, fsck it".
> 
> If it's btrfs or zfs, then my guess is "btrfs or zfs voodoo, consult
> a shaman".

And aufs?

Note: I am not the administrator of the machine (I have opened
a ticket, but I don't know when I will get an answer). However,
if there is something corrupt in the FS, I would have expected
this to be signaled by the kernel instead of getting ENOENT.

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: apt tells me that grub-efi, grub2-common are no longer needed

[David Wright]

Please post as text, not *just* html.

On Wed 23 Jun 2021 at 15:55:04 (+0200), Markus wrote:
> 
>   
> 
> 
>   
>   
> Hi, just before and also after today's "apt full-upgrade" apt tells
> me that:
> 
> The following packages were automatically installed and are no 
> longer required:
> efibootmgr grub-efi-amd64-bin grub-efi-amd64-signed grub2-common
> libappindicator3-1 libcanberra-gtk3-0 libcanberra-gtk3-module
> libclutter-gtk-1.0-0 libdbusmenu-glib4 libdbusmenu-gtk3-4 libindicator3-7
> libupsclient4 linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
> linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-common linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
> linux-kbuild-4.19 linux-kbuild-5.9 mokutil shim-helpers-amd64-signed
> shim-signed-common
> shim-unsigned
> 
> 
> I don't have a good feeling when I see that it allows me to remove 
> "efibootmgr grub-efi-amd64-bin grub-efi-amd64-signed grub2-common"
> 
> 
> 
> What is wrong here? I am on Buster and used kernel
> 5.10.0-0.bpo.5-amd64. With today's
> 
> full-upgrade 5.10.0-0.bpo.7-amd64 came in.

Has grub-efi-amd64 been accidentally removed? AIUI that's the package
which depends on having the packages to boot your machine.

Cheers,
David.

Re: question regarding post-installed packages

[David Wright]

On Wed 23 Jun 2021 at 08:49:42 (+0100), mick crane wrote:
> On 2021-06-23 08:22, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 06:51:39AM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> > >   comm -23 <(apt-mark showmanual | sort -u) <(gzip -dc
> > > /var/log/installer/initial-status.gz | sed -n 's/^Package:
> > > //p' | sort -u)
> > 
> > > Command substitution without '$'? I must be missing something
> > > and would
> > > appreciate a pointer.
> > 
> > As David pointed out (as a pointer), the <(...) is a bashism for
> > "pretend this is
> > a file name whose content is provided by the enclosed command's
> > output".
> > 
> > Perhaps more readable in the symmetrical variant
> > 
> >   diff -u <(ls dir1) <(ls dir2)
> > 
> > Very handy.
> > 
> does not the excellent guide also say not to try to do anything with
> the output of "ls" ?

That would make ls effectively useless. No, the output from ls is for
parsing by eyeball, not by scripts. That's what's important.
In the example, diff doesn't parse the output, it just presents the
differences between two slabs of text for your eyeball to parse.

Cheers,
David.

Re: apt tells me that grub-efi, grub2-common are no longer needed

[Markus]

No, not that I am aware of. But here is the ouput of

markus@bmtMB1:~$ sudo dpkg -l | grep grub
ii  grub-common 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4   
amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader (common files)
rc  grub-efi-amd64 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u3   
amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (EFI-AMD64 version)
ii  grub-efi-amd64-bin 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4   
amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (EFI-AMD64 modules)
ii  grub-efi-amd64-signed 1+2.02+dfsg1+20+deb10u4 
amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (amd64 UEFI signed by
Debian)
ii  grub-firmware-qemu 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4   
amd64    GRUB firmware image for QEMU
ii  grub2-common 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4   
amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader (common files for version 2)
markus@bmtMB1:~$

Cheers
Markus


Am 23.06.21 um 16:43 schrieb David Wright:

Please post as text, not *just* html.

On Wed 23 Jun 2021 at 15:55:04 (+0200), Markus wrote:


   

 
   
   
 Hi, just before and also after today's "apt full-upgrade" apt tells
 me that:
 
 The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer 
required:
efibootmgr grub-efi-amd64-bin grub-efi-amd64-signed grub2-common
libappindicator3-1 libcanberra-gtk3-0 libcanberra-gtk3-module
libclutter-gtk-1.0-0 libdbusmenu-glib4 libdbusmenu-gtk3-4 libindicator3-7
libupsclient4 linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
linux-headers-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-common linux-image-5.10.0-0.bpo.4-amd64
linux-kbuild-4.19 linux-kbuild-5.9 mokutil shim-helpers-amd64-signed
shim-signed-common
shim-unsigned


 I don't have a good feeling when I see that it allows me to remove 
 "efibootmgr grub-efi-amd64-bin grub-efi-amd64-signed grub2-common"
 
 
 
 What is wrong here? I am on Buster and used kernel
 5.10.0-0.bpo.5-amd64. With today's
 
 full-upgrade 5.10.0-0.bpo.7-amd64 came in.

Has grub-efi-amd64 been accidentally removed? AIUI that's the package
which depends on having the packages to boot your machine.

Cheers,
David.

Re: apt tells me that grub-efi, grub2-common are no longer needed

[David Wright]

On Wed 23 Jun 2021 at 17:01:07 (+0200), Markus wrote:
> Am 23.06.21 um 16:43 schrieb David Wright:
> > Has grub-efi-amd64 been accidentally removed? AIUI that's the package
> > which depends on having the packages to boot your machine.

> No, not that I am aware of. But here is the ouput of
> 
> markus@bmtMB1:~$ sudo dpkg -l | grep grub
> ii  grub-common 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4   
> amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader (common files)
> rc  grub-efi-amd64 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u3   

  ↑↑ There's your problem. It's been removed (but not purged).

> amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (EFI-AMD64 version)
> ii  grub-efi-amd64-bin 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4   
> amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (EFI-AMD64 modules)
> ii  grub-efi-amd64-signed 1+2.02+dfsg1+20+deb10u4 
> amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (amd64 UEFI signed by
> Debian)
> ii  grub-firmware-qemu 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4   
> amd64    GRUB firmware image for QEMU
> ii  grub2-common 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4   
> amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader (common files for version 2)
> markus@bmtMB1:~$

Thanks for posting text.

Cheers,
David.

Re: cdrskin: burn cdda with cue sheet file

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 12:26:46 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Michael Lange wrote:
> > > https://web.archive.org/web/20151223114027/http://digitalx.org/cue-sheet/
> > > cdrskin: FAILURE : In cue sheet file: Multiple occurrences of FILE
> 
> Reco wrote:
> > cdrskin(1) says:
> > a *single file* which is given in the sheet by command FILE.
> 
> Indeed. cdrskin expects a single FILE command in the CUE file.
> That's how i have read the CDRWIN CUE descriptions years ago.

> The above web page about cue-sheet says
>   "FILE commands must appear before any other command except CATALOG.
>This rule contradicts the examples on this site: Note"

thanks for pointing this out, looks like I should have read more
carefully.

(...)
> 
> The case of a 1:1 relation between input files and tracks is served by
> the cdrecord-ish style of submitting multiple track sources and the
> non-cdrecord option input_sheet_v07t=.
> See the man page of cdrskin for input_sheet_v07t= and the example
>   Write audio tracks and CD-TEXT to CD:

Actually I had thought about that first, but wasn't able to find a way to
add pregaps to the audio tracks, should I wish to do so.
Now looking again I saw the sao_pregap command which might do exactly
that (I'm not 100 per cent sure about its usage, though). I tried a dummy
run with the following command:

cdrskin -v -dummy -eject dev=/dev/sr0 -sao speed=10 track1.wav \
sao_pregap=75 track2wav sao_pregap=225 track3.wav track4.wav

Is my assumption correct that this will add a 1-second pregap before
track2 and a 3-second pregap before track3 and no pregap before track4?
Or did I get that wrong?

> 
> Further there is an example at
>   https://sources.debian.org/src/libburn/1.5.2-1/doc/cdtext.txt/#L600

Thanks, I'll look into that.

Best regards

Michael

.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

You!  What PLANET is this!
-- McCoy, "The City on the Edge of Forever", stardate 3134.0

Re: cdrskin: burn cdda with cue sheet file

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Michael Lange wrote:
> cdrskin -v -dummy -eject dev=/dev/sr0 -sao speed=10 track1.wav \
> sao_pregap=75 track2wav sao_pregap=225 track3.wav track4.wav
>
> Is my assumption correct that this will add a 1-second pregap before
> track2 and a 3-second pregap before track3 and no pregap before track4?

I hope so. :))
This stuff was implemented and tested in 2012. But there was few feedback
from users since then. Bit rot is always a risk in such situations. (Last
was in 2019 and caused libburn 1.5.0-1+deb10u1.)

You will have to invest a real medium (CD-RW would avoid plastic waste)
and then check with the actual CD players whether the options fulfilled
your expectations.

--

If they do not what we expect, then please re-run cdrskin with
additional option -V and redirect standard error to a file. Like:

  cdrskin -V -v ... track4.wav 2>&1 | tee -i /tmp/cdrskin_scsi_log

If you only have CD-R, then use option -dummy. If you have a CD-RW it would
be better to see the SCSI command log of a real burn run.

Send file /tmp/cdrskin_scsi_log to my mail address directly. No need to clog
the list with a large file that mostly contains boring bytes.
The main objects of interest will be the MODE SELECT command with the
Mode Page 5 data and the SEND CUE SHEET command with the cue sheet data.


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Joe Pfeiffer]

Vincent Lefevre  writes:

> On a Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster) machine:
>
> $ ls -ld /etc/systemd
> drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 0 2021-04-19 09:40:41 /etc/systemd
> $ ls /etc/systemd
> ls: cannot open directory '/etc/systemd': No such file or directory
>
> Any explanation???

snowball:776$ ls -ld /etc/systemd
drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Jun 17 11:20 /etc/systemd/
snowball:777$ ls /etc/systemd
journald.conf  logind.conf  network/  networkd.conf  pstore.conf  resolved.conf 
 sleep.conf  system/  system.conf  user/  user.conf
snowball:778$ stat /etc/systemd
  File: /etc/systemd
  Size: 4096Blocks: 8  IO Block: 4096   directory
Device: 901h/2305d  Inode: 16517453Links: 5
Access: (0755/drwxr-xr-x)  Uid: (0/root)   Gid: (0/root)
Access: 2021-06-23 11:04:12.898744989 -0600
Modify: 2021-06-17 11:20:15.302495478 -0600
Change: 2021-06-17 11:20:15.302495478 -0600
 Birth: 2012-10-03 22:45:10.910122061 -0600

I'm with the people guessing you've got FS corruption.

Re: cdrskin: burn cdda with cue sheet file

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 19:05:45 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Michael Lange wrote:
> > cdrskin -v -dummy -eject dev=/dev/sr0 -sao speed=10 track1.wav \
> > sao_pregap=75 track2wav sao_pregap=225 track3.wav track4.wav
> >
> > Is my assumption correct that this will add a 1-second pregap before
> > track2 and a 3-second pregap before track3 and no pregap before
> > track4?
> 
> I hope so. :))
> This stuff was implemented and tested in 2012. But there was few
> feedback from users since then. Bit rot is always a risk in such
> situations. (Last was in 2019 and caused libburn 1.5.0-1+deb10u1.)
> 
> You will have to invest a real medium (CD-RW would avoid plastic waste)
> and then check with the actual CD players whether the options fulfilled
> your expectations.

thanks, according to my CD-player apparently you did a good job, the
pregaps seem to be just like they should :-)

Alas, I just encountered another problem, which does not belong
into this thread though (I am afraid I might finally have to buy me a new
drive :)

Thanks again, and best regards

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Sometimes a feeling is all we humans have to go on.
-- Kirk, "A Taste of Armageddon", stardate 3193.9

Fatal error while burning CD

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

I have recently been encountering errors while trying to burn CDDA discs;
I had previously used cdrdao for ages for this task, which (at least it
looks like that to me) hasn't really been maintained for well over 10
years, so I thought it *might* be a software bug with cdrdao.

Too bad, now I got a similar looking error from cdrskin:

1.1x.cdrskin: FATAL : SCSI error on write(442,13): See MMC specs: Sense Key 5 
"Illegal request", ASC A8 ASCQ 04

I couldn't find anything enlightening about this in the web. 
Does anyone know, if this error points in a specific direction
(drive? cable? media?) or if it is rather unspecific and I will have to 
go by try-and-error?

Thanks in advance

Michael


.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Power is danger.
-- The Centurion, "Balance of Terror", stardate 1709.2

Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 23 iun 21, 16:43:51, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> On 2021-06-23 10:27:01 -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 03:59:51PM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> 
> > > $ ls /etc/systemd
> > > ls: cannot open directory '/etc/systemd': No such file or directory
> > > 
> > > Any explanation???
> > 
> > If it's ext4, then my guess is "corrupted file system, fsck it".
> > 
> > If it's btrfs or zfs, then my guess is "btrfs or zfs voodoo, consult
> > a shaman".
> 
> And aufs?

An astrologist.

(sorry, could not resist)

Is this a new issue? If it worked before, what changed since then?

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Fatal error while burning CD

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

Michael Lange wrote:
> cdrskin: FATAL : SCSI error on write(442,13): See MMC specs: Sense Key
> 5 "Illegal request", ASC A8 ASCQ 04

The hex number triple (5, A8, 04) is the reply of the drive to command
WRITE(10) after 34 such commands succeeded. (34 = 442 / 13. 13 is the
smallest multiple of 2352 bytes below 32 KiB.)

ASC A8 is not in the list of MMC errors. Actually there is none above 73.
Insofar your drive's firmware is creative.
The sense key 5 means that the drive accuses the burn program of doing it
wrong.

What were your exact cdrskin arguments ?
Inhowfar do they differ from those of the previously successful run ?


What does this run report about cdrskin and your drive when a blank CD-R[W]
is inserted:

  cdrskin dev=/dev/sr0 -minfo 2>&1 | tee -i /tmp/cdrskin_minfo

The line
  Drive id   : '...'
will contain the serial number of your drive. It is of no interest for our
case, so you may delete it before posting the output of about 40 lines.

If your cdrskin version is 1.5.0, can you confirm that you have installed
cdrskin_1.5.0-1+deb10u1 of 2019 and not the older 1.5.0-1 of 2018 ?


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: Messed up Email

[Brian]

On Wed 23 Jun 2021 at 07:52:02 -0400, Michael Grant wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 07:36:33PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > On Tue 22 Jun 2021 at 10:44:55 +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
> > 
> > > In addition to everything everybody else has said, and just to make it
> > > absolutely clear;
> > > 
> > > gmail != email
> > 
> > Nonsense.
> >  
> > > or, in words;
> > > 
> > > gmail IS NOT email
> > 
> > More nonsense.
> 
> Not nonsense at all.
> 
> gmail is a mail reader (like as Thunderbird, Mutt, Pine, or Outlook (the
> program) + a mail server + domain name (gmail.com).

We are at cross-purposes (I think). My gmail account receives mail,
generally from bugs.debian.org. I download it with POP3 and read it
in mutt. That is all I use it for. It lools email compliant to me.

I am not interested in Google-bashing.

> email is set standards which gmail implements.
> 
> email is NOT gmail and let's not forget this.
> 
> I'm sure most everyone on this list is tech savy enough to understand
> that.  Brian, it would astonish me if you don't, but your reply is
> difficult to understand your intent whether it's toungue in cheek or
> not.
i> 
> It's quite shocking to me to have conversations with young people,
> even into their early 20s who do not understand this distinction.  And
> there are many people who do not understand the distinction between a
> standards based system such as mail or the web and a proprietary
> system such as facebook, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc etc.  And
> many of them simply don't care, for them, they just use it because
> their friends do.

Young people! I've tried to explain to them that the universe is not
expanding. With little avail.

As for the Higgs boson - forget about it!

-- 
Brian.

Re: A feasible method to add examples to man pages?

[Richard Owlett]

On 06/22/2021 02:21 AM, Curt wrote:

On 2021-06-22, Greg Wooledge  wrote:

On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 11:50:22PM +0100, Brian wrote:

On Mon 21 Jun 2021 at 15:25:53 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:


On 06/21/2021 02:36 PM, Curt wrote:

   curl https://cht.sh/:cht.sh > ~/bin/cht.sh
   chmod +x ~/bin/cht.sh
   cht.sh --standalone-install


I don't understand what those 3 lines are attempting to do.
What should I be reading?


curl(1)
bash(1) (Redirection)
chmod(1)
less ~/bin/cht.sh


Just for the record, there should be a mkdir -p ~/bin in there as
well.  And one might need to log out and back in to get ~/bin into
one's PATH, depending on how one's dot files are set up.  (Manual
modification of PATH is also acceptable.)


That's what I get for blindly copying and pasting the "directions" from
Github. I should've have just told Monnier that the whole shebang
can be installed locally, which renders inoperative his nitpick about
not having the Net when he needs to cheat the most (or most often).



FYI
It may be "operator error", but I get a "Could not install python 
dependencies into the virtual environment" ERROR when trying to install 
on Debian 10.7. The install.log is 6.6kB of messages I don't have the 
background to interpret. A side effect is destruction of the ability to 
consistently edit Profile Preferences. {perhaps also operator error}.

I'll not pursue further.

Re: Clipboard

[Bob Weber]

On 6/23/21 08:08, William Lee Valentine wrote:

My comment may be rudimentary.

I copy onto the Windows clipboard all the time (by selecting text with
the mouse and then pressing control/C). I am not then able to paste the
selected text into a text document with one click: I must minimize the
original document (or close it), and I then have two choices.

(1) I can open a second document, click at some point within it, and
press control/V to paste my text into the second document.

(2) I can execute a text editor like Notepad and press control/V, to
paste the selected text into the text editor. I can then tell the text
editor to save the new file as a text document.

-- William Lee Valentine

You didn't mention which display manager you use.  I use KDE and it is really 
easy to cut and paste.  I believe other DMs have this same capability since I 
have used it in VMs running those other systems.   The page at 
"https://userbase.kde.org/Klipper"; describes the clipboard:


"Within Plasma there are two different buffers. One is the clipboard and the 
other is the selection. The clipboard buffer is filled when you press Ctrl + X 
or Ctrl + C and pasted by using Ctrl + V. The selection buffer is filled by 
simply marking some text and pasted by pressing the middle mouse button. Having 
said that it is important to know that Klipper can be configured to hold both 
buffers."


So after simply highlighting text you can go to another window (say a new 
document) and past the text with the middle mouse button (usually a scroll 
button or emulated on a laptop by hitting both left and right touch-pad buttons 
at the same time).  No ctrl-c ctrl-v.  Plus your clipboard can hold as many 
items as you want (I have mine set to 60).  So you could go through one document 
highlighting things you want to copy over and over ... then go to a second 
document and hitting Alt-c (quick display of highlighted text) to choose what 
you want to past.  The item to be pasted is at the top of the list.  You can 
choose another item simply by left clicking that item ... going back to the new 
document and hitting the middle mouse button!


So you don't have to keep going back and forth between documents just highlight 
multiple times until you are done (assuming you have set  the count high enough) 
and then go back to the new document and past each item in whatever order you want.


Hope this helps.

--



*...Bob*

Re: "ls -d" OK, but not "ls"

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2021-06-23 21:24:43 +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote:
> Is this a new issue?

I don't know. The machine had been reinstalled in January. But
since this reinstallation, I haven't tried to log in until today
(I was using it only via job submissions).

-- 
Vincent Lefèvre  - Web: 
100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)

Re: Messed up Email

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 23 iun 21, 07:52:02, Michael Grant wrote:
> 
> It's quite shocking to me to have conversations with young people,
> even into their early 20s who do not understand this distinction.  And
> there are many people who do not understand the distinction between a
> standards based system such as mail or the web and a proprietary
> system such as facebook, WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, etc etc.  And
> many of them simply don't care, for them, they just use it because
> their friends do.

As far as I can tell it has nothing to do with age, most people 
(including tech savvy ones) just don't see a problem with it.

Apparently the lines are blurry enough for you to include Signal in that 
list.

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Re: Messed up Email

[Brian Thompson]

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 08:22:25PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> On Wed 23 Jun 2021 at 07:52:02 -0400, Michael Grant wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, Jun 22, 2021 at 07:36:33PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> > 
> > gmail is a mail reader (like as Thunderbird, Mutt, Pine, or Outlook (the
> > program) + a mail server + domain name (gmail.com).
> 
> We are at cross-purposes (I think). My gmail account receives mail,
> generally from bugs.debian.org. I download it with POP3 and read it
> in mutt. That is all I use it for. It lools email compliant to me.
> 
> -- 
> Brian.
> 

I'm also currently using gmail for my mailing lists which seems to work
pretty good with its IMAP and SMTP server along with mutt. The provider
I have that hosts my custom domain email 
unfortunately does not have IMAP support. So I have to forward those
emails I get at that address to my gmail account so that I can use mutt.

I switched to hey-mail a month ago because it looked pretty. Ideally I 
would have my own mail server on my home network.

-- 
Best regards,

Brian T


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Re: Messed up Email

[Michael Grant]

> Apparently the lines are blurry enough for you to include Signal in that 
> list.

Why?  Not blurry at all.  Signal is just as closed a system as
WhatsApp.  Maybe more private, but unless you know something I don't,
Signal doesn't talk to anything other than other Signal.  Puppeted
bridges are not interoperability, as far as I am aware, all users
still need to be on Signal.

You'll notice that I didn't put Matrix on that list.  One day there
will be multiple Matrix servers and clients and it's not dependent on
any single company's infrastructure.

Michael Grant


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Re: Fatal error while burning CD

[Michael Lange]

Hi,

thanks for the quick responese!

On Wed, 23 Jun 2021 20:58:17 +0200
"Thomas Schmitt"  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Michael Lange wrote:
> > cdrskin: FATAL : SCSI error on write(442,13): See MMC specs: Sense Key
> > 5 "Illegal request", ASC A8 ASCQ 04
> 
> The hex number triple (5, A8, 04) is the reply of the drive to command
> WRITE(10) after 34 such commands succeeded. (34 = 442 / 13. 13 is the
> smallest multiple of 2352 bytes below 32 KiB.)
> 
> ASC A8 is not in the list of MMC errors. Actually there is none above
> 73. Insofar your drive's firmware is creative.

Ok, that explains why I couldn't find it anywhere :-)

> The sense key 5 means that the drive accuses the burn program of doing
> it wrong.
> 
> What were your exact cdrskin arguments ?
> Inhowfar do they differ from those of the previously successful run ?

The exact command was (without slashes and line breaks of course):

cdrskin -v -dummy -eject dev=/dev/sr0 -sao speed=10 '04 Pujeva.wav' \
sao_pregap=75 '05 New Pulse.wav' sao_pregap=225 '07 Rocket \
Keronian.wav' '10 Dodo.wav'

I repeated the exact same command immediately afterwards with the same
disc, and the second time it finished without errors.

> 
> 
> What does this run report about cdrskin and your drive when a blank
> CD-R[W] is inserted:
> 
>   cdrskin dev=/dev/sr0 -minfo 2>&1 | tee -i /tmp/cdrskin_minfo

Ok, I inserted a blank disc from the same package as the one I had the
error with and got this:

$ cdrskin dev=/dev/sr0 -minfo 2>&1 | tee -i /tmp/cdrskin_minfo
cdrskin 1.5.0 : limited cdrecord compatibility wrapper for libburn
cdrskin: NOTE : greying out all drives besides given dev='/dev/sr0'
cdrskin: scanning for devices ...
cdrskin: ... scanning for devices done
scsidev: '/dev/sr0'
cdrskin: pseudo-atip on drive 0
cdrskin: status 1 burn_disc_blank "The drive holds a blank disc"
Device type: Removable CD-ROM
Vendor_info: 'PLEXTOR'
Identifikation : 'DVDR PX-810SA'
Revision   : '1.01'
Driver flags   : BURNFREE
Supported modes: TAO SAO
cdrskin: burn_drive_get_write_speed = 5645  (32.0x)
ATIP info from disk:
  Is not erasable
  ATIP start of lead in:  -12508 (97:15/17)
  ATIP start of lead out: 359845 (79:59/70)
  1T speed low:  4 1T speed high: 32
Product Id:97m15s17f/79m59s70f
Producer:  Ritek Corp

Mounted media class:  CD
Mounted media type:   CD-R
Disk Is not erasable
disk status:  empty
session status:   empty
first track:  1
number of sessions:   1
first track in last sess: 1
last track in last sess:  1
Disk Is not unrestricted
Disk type: undefined

Track  Sess Type   Start Addr End Addr   Size
==
1 1 Blank  0  359842 359843

Next writable address:  0 
Remaining writable size:359843


> 
> The line
>   Drive id   : '...'
> will contain the serial number of your drive. It is of no interest for
> our case, so you may delete it before posting the output of about 40
> lines.
> 
> If your cdrskin version is 1.5.0, can you confirm that you have
> installed cdrskin_1.5.0-1+deb10u1 of 2019 and not the older 1.5.0-1 of
> 2018 ?

Yes, 1.5.0-1+deb10u1 is installed.

Maybe I should add that this or similar errors (I at least
clearly remember the "Sense key 5") occured with cdrdao with
blanks of different manufacturers. Once I tried to let cdrdao just finish
without interrupting it and to my utter surprise it produced a CD that
when inserted into the CD-player was recognized and reported with the
expected track count and duration. I was even able to start playback,
only that instead of music some real nasty constant noise came through
the speakers :)

Thanks, and best regards

Michael



.-.. .. ...- .   .-.. --- -. --.   .- -. -..   .--. .-. --- ... .--. . .-.

Vulcans never bluff.
-- Spock, "The Doomsday Machine", stardate 4202.1

Re: Messed up Email

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 23 iun 21, 17:12:07, Michael Grant wrote:
> > Apparently the lines are blurry enough for you to include Signal in that 
> > list.
> 
> Why?  Not blurry at all.  Signal is just as closed a system as
> WhatsApp.  Maybe more private, but unless you know something I don't,
> Signal doesn't talk to anything other than other Signal.  Puppeted
> bridges are not interoperability, as far as I am aware, all users
> still need to be on Signal.

You seem to be using a completely different meaning of 'proprietary' (no 
federation) than I do (closed source software, proprietary protocol that 
must be reversed engineered, patents, etc.).
 
> You'll notice that I didn't put Matrix on that list.  One day there
> will be multiple Matrix servers and clients and it's not dependent on
> any single company's infrastructure.

One day? There are already 3 clients in Debian stable, and there's at 
least matrix.debian.social ;)

(or did you mean server software?)

Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser


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Description: PGP signature

Re: debian installation issue

[Felix Miata]

David Wright composed on 2021-06-22 10:50 (UTC-0500):

> On Fri 11 Jun 2021 at 16:57:35 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:

>> OTOH, putting a bootloader on the MBR of a disk on a PC designed for Windows 
>> is a
>> relative newcomer to the world of booting such a PC. I've been installing
>> operating systems on IBM-compatible PCs for more than 3 decades. Not once 
>> have I
>> intentionally installed Grub on an MBR. In the dearth of instances where it 
>> did
>> happen I wiped whatever caused it, and started over with
>> DOS/OS2/Windows/Linux-compatible MBR code on the MBR. IOW, Grub can live 
>> elsewhere
>> than on the MBR.

> Can you elaborate on what your "DOS/OS2/Windows/Linux-compatible MBR
> code" is, what functionality you get, and where you obtain it.


I'm not sure there is "a" definition. One could be any code that a Windows
installation would not replace. Another could be based on what it does:

1-locate a legal boot flag
2-load an appropriate sector pointed to by a legal flag
3-announce error if the above conditions are not met

A legal flag is any flag on a primary partition on a disk on which no other boot
flags are present in the MBR table.

> Are there OSes that would install it themselves to a new blank disk?


One version would be code a Windows installation would put there.

Another would be the result of FDISK /MBR from a MS or PC DOS boot, or FDISK
/NEWMBR or LVM /NEWMBR from an OS/2, eCS or ArcaOS boot.

I would expect the FreeDOS version of FDISK or its installer to do the same.

I normally use code derived from OS/2, installed by DFSee when I first 
partition a
disk.

>> With a UEFI "BIOS", the boot process begins rather differently than on an 
>> MBR-only
>> system. On a UEFI system's ESP (Extensible Firmware Interface System 
>> Partition; a
>> quasi-"boot" partition), there are no files containing the string "grub" in 
>> their
>> name.

I have no idea what I was thinking when I wrote that last sentence. I was 
probably
looking at an installation that had been installed without any bootloader, which
is not where I should have been focused.

>> Thus it seems to be a debatable issue whether "bootloader" is actually an
>> appropriate name for Grub 2, as its primary purpose seems to be presenting a 
>> menu
>> from which to select what kernel, initrd (if any), and kernel command line
>> parameters (if any) to load into RAM to /continue/ the boot process 
>> initiated by
>> the UEFI firmware.

> I'm not quite following your point. Are you saying that the ~250 Grub
> modules are just a waste of space, and that the while boot process is
> carried out by the EFI firmware?


The process is initiated by the EFI firmware, begun by probing a panoply of
available media for ESP partition files that fulfill requirements for proceeding
with a boot process defined by the Multiboot Specification. Usually, it's more 
or
less the start of a chain loading process finished by an installed "bootloader".
OTOH, the UEFI firmware might start a PC completely (of sorts) by loading a 
single
file on the ESP originally named mt83x64.efi (memtest86 v8.3).

All the Grub modules aren't required or employed on any given installation. A 
more
sophisticated Grub installer could conceivably install there only those 
components
required for the hardware present during installation.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: Problem with Grub

[Felix Miata]

David Wright composed on 2021-06-22 11:00 (UTC-0500):

> On Sat 19 Jun 2021 at 14:51:53 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote:

>> As already mentioned, you needn't have paid. Two unrelated things were 
>> likely to
>> have caused this to happen. Vista and or Win10 could have been installed in 
>> MBR
>> mode, which is compatible with having Grub on the MBR, but the failure could 
>> have
>> been that os-prober was either not installed or not configured to include 
>> any menu
>> option for Windows.

> Would I be right in assuming that you could still manually boot
> Windows at this point by using Grub's command line, along the
> following lines:

> GRUB> insmod fat
> GRUB> set root=(hd0,gpt1)
> GRUB> chainloader (${root})/efi/Microsoft/Boot/bootmgfw.efi
> GRUB> boot

> (That's the sequence I used when I had to do this myself, and
> I originally navigated my way there by means of Grub's TAB
> command-completion.)


Sure. Grub menus are scripts that call some of the same commands available while
at a Grub shell prompt.

>> The other likely failure mode could have been that either Windows could have 
>> been
>> installed in UEFI mode, while Debian was installed in legacy (MBR) mode. All
>> installed operating systems on UEFI PCs need to be installed in the same 
>> mode to
>> permit Grub to be able to boot all of them.

> Presumably if they had managed to install Debian/BIOS on a
> Windows/UEFI computer, then they ought to be able to switch between
> these modes at will. That's how I installed Debian on a machine where
> my wife still needed to be able to boot Windows. (No chance of being
> permitted to alter the booting scheme while that need remained.)


Technically it's /not/ needed for all to be in same mode, but /when/ not, and
presuming firmware competence, navigating the PC firmware to some extent is
required for each instance of need to boot an OS that has been installed to
another mode. The "need" has to do with using installed software, usually Grub 
on
x86 compatible hardware on which Gnu/Linux has been installed, to select which 
OS
to boot. Hence, the "need" applies in a Grub in maximum control context.
-- 
Evolution as taught in public schools is, like religion,
based on faith, not based on science.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata

Re: apt tells me that grub-efi, grub2-common are no longer needed

[Markus]

Ok so...hmmm...I did not remove it myself. I mean why would I want to do
that?!?! Nevertheless this is an issue now.
Interestingly when booting my computer this morning grub was there and
booted into Buster. Shouldn't it be gone if it got removed (even though
it not got purged)? Hmmm...!?!?

How to fix that? Is there actually something wrong (this morning grub
was there!!!) that needs to be fixed?
Is it save to just reinstall grub-efi-amd64?

Cheers
Markus


Am 23.06.21 um 18:08 schrieb David Wright:

On Wed 23 Jun 2021 at 17:01:07 (+0200), Markus wrote:

Am 23.06.21 um 16:43 schrieb David Wright:

Has grub-efi-amd64 been accidentally removed? AIUI that's the package
which depends on having the packages to boot your machine.

No, not that I am aware of. But here is the ouput of

markus@bmtMB1:~$ sudo dpkg -l | grep grub
ii  grub-common 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4
amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader (common files)
rc  grub-efi-amd64 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u3

   ↑↑ There's your problem. It's been removed (but not purged).


amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (EFI-AMD64 version)
ii  grub-efi-amd64-bin 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4
amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (EFI-AMD64 modules)
ii  grub-efi-amd64-signed 1+2.02+dfsg1+20+deb10u4
amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader, version 2 (amd64 UEFI signed by
Debian)
ii  grub-firmware-qemu 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4
amd64    GRUB firmware image for QEMU
ii  grub2-common 2.02+dfsg1-20+deb10u4
amd64    GRand Unified Bootloader (common files for version 2)
markus@bmtMB1:~$

Thanks for posting text.

Cheers,
David.