Re: PHP 7.1 for debian stretch

[Sven Hartge]

gro.nai...@lagelagelage.ch wrote:

> Does anyone know when PHP 7.1 becomes to a stable version in debian stretch?

PHP7.1 will *never* come to Debian Stretch.

You can get an up-to-date version of PHP for Debian from the external
repository of Ondřej Surý at deb.sury.org. Ondřej is the DD responsible
for PHP in Debian, so while the packages are not in the main Debian
Repository, you won't get more official packages anywhere else.

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: stretch install for amd64-9.8.0 problems.

[Thomas Schmitt]

Hi,

i wrote:
> > Is your jigdo-lite old enough at all to suffer from the https
> > blindness ?

Gene Heskett wrote:
> I have 7.3 on wheezy

So you would have to download the .jigdo and .template files manually
by wget or web browser. If you then run jigdo-lite in the directory
with the downloaded files and give it the URL of the .jigdo file again,
then you should get an ISO from jigdo-lite.


> I just grabbed the 4th copy of the netinstall cd, maybe k3b will write a
> good copy next time

Did you check its MD5 or SHA512 ?

  e0a43cbb8b991735c1b38e7041019658  debian-9.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso

  
cc4a6bd50925c1c4af98049060e304494bc9da61eb5eb272c556d67608de14d4e6a4b8bc1c9412a0f810083912e228569f3771a7174538f3e26f45a05245
  debian-9.8.0-amd64-netinst.iso


> First 2 burns failed at the switch to initrd file point.

Please give the last messages of the failed attempt.
(If it gets to the initrd, then the boot loader worked and the Linux
 kernel was started.)


> Very disappointing to see a disk error pop up at sector
> 28xxx after 10 minutes of reading an ancient but freshly burnt cd image.

Is that error attributed to your CD or to your hard disk where you want
to install ?
If it is about the CD, try a DVD or an USB stick.
  https://www.debian.org/CD/faq/#write-usb


Have a nice day :)

Thomas

Re: chroot jail for user with rssh

[Peter Wiersig]

basti  writes:

> sftp -vv u...@example.com
> Transferred: sent 2508, received 2260 bytes, in 0.2 seconds
> Bytes per second: sent 15924.1, received 14349.5
> debug1: Exit status 1
> Connection closed
>
>
> scp -vv u...@example.com:/foo /tmp
> Transferred: sent 2508, received 2304 bytes, in 0.2 seconds
> Bytes per second: sent 15051.0, received 13826.7
> debug1: Exit status 255
> (...)
> I have no idea anymore whats wrong and how can I debug.

You can't debug such setups from the client side.

Have a look in /var/log/auth.log on the server and if that doesn't help:

a) if necessary modify the firewall
b) launch sshd on a different port with no backgrounding and debug
output
  => sshd -d -p 1234
c) retry above steps with the alternate port

Peter

Re: text editors

[tomas]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 07:51:53AM +0100, deloptes wrote:

[...]

> Anyway emacs is not bad for those who know it, but it is impractical because
> you have mostly vim installed, so learning vim is a must indeed.

Eating roquefort is impractical because you gotta drink wine anyway :-)

Look -- you can do both (I do). If you're looking for excuses to stay
away from Emacs: no need to, just do. But as little need to spread FUD
about Emacs. Yes, Emacs is a decent editor. No, you don't /have/ to
know Lisp to use it. Yes, if you do learn Lisp, you get powers few
other editors give you. Yes, Emacs is somewhat idiosincratic (as Vi(m)
is -- most powerful editors seem to be).

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: text editors

[tomas]

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 08:21:41PM -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote:
> >> I use vim.
> > I use crispr!
> 
> I was tempted to try it out, but I heard it only handles
> a 4-char alphabet.  How do you handle accents?

They just went Unicode ;-)

Cheers

[1] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6429/884.full
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Emacs and hunspell

[Johann Spies]

I, so far, did not manage to use hunspell with emacs.  After reading a lot
on the internet, inter alia emacs-wiki and stackexchange and trying out
different recipes, still no success.

My latest effort in .emacs:

(with-eval-after-load "ispell"
  (setq ispell-program-name "hunspell")
  (setq ispell-dictionary "af_ZA")
  ;; ispell-set-spellchecker-params has to be called
  ;; before ispell-hunspell-add-multi-dic will work
  (ispell-set-spellchecker-params)
  (ispell-hunspell-add-multi-dic "af_ZA,en_ZA"))

(setq ispell-program-name (executable-find "hunspell")
  ispell-dictionary "af_ZA")
produces the following error message when trying to use the spell process:

ispell-get-decoded-string: No data for dictionary "af_ZA" in
‘ispell-local-dictionary-alist’ or ‘ispell-dictionary-alist’

>From what I have read emacs (1:26.1+1-3.2) should just work with hunspell
even if you just set the last two lines of the above configuration.
However, it does not seem to pick up the dictionaries.

How do I get it to work?

Regards
Johann

-- 
Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself,
my lips will praise you.  (Psalm 63:3)

Re: text editors

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

>writes:

> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 07:51:53AM +0100, deloptes wrote: [...]

>> Anyway emacs is not bad for those who know it, but it is
>> impractical because you have mostly vim installed, so learning vim
>> is a must indeed.

> Eating roquefort is impractical because you gotta drink wine anyway
> :-)

LOL. Maybe some gongorzola with mascarpone could be more pratical?

> Look -- you can do both (I do). If you're looking for excuses to
> stay away from Emacs: no need to, just do.

Perfect. It is free software, rule 0, you are free to use it "for
whatever purpose you want" and this freedom includes not using it.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO

Re: PHP 7.1 for debian stretch

[Georgi Naplatanov]

On 3/28/19 7:40 AM, basti wrote:
> https://deb.sury.org/
> 
> On 28.03.19 06:15, gro.nai...@lagelagelage.ch wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>>
>> Does anyone know when PHP 7.1 becomes to a stable version in debian stretch?
>> Is there a roadmap?
>>

Or you can use Docker and PHP images

https://hub.docker.com/_/php/

Kind regards
Georgi

Re: chroot jail for user with rssh

[basti]

On 28.03.19 08:21, Peter Wiersig wrote:
> basti  writes:
> 
>> sftp -vv u...@example.com
>> Transferred: sent 2508, received 2260 bytes, in 0.2 seconds
>> Bytes per second: sent 15924.1, received 14349.5
>> debug1: Exit status 1
>> Connection closed
>>
>>
>> scp -vv u...@example.com:/foo /tmp
>> Transferred: sent 2508, received 2304 bytes, in 0.2 seconds
>> Bytes per second: sent 15051.0, received 13826.7
>> debug1: Exit status 255
>> (...)
>> I have no idea anymore whats wrong and how can I debug.
> 
> You can't debug such setups from the client side.
> 
> Have a look in /var/log/auth.log on the server and if that doesn't help:
> 
> a) if necessary modify the firewall
> b) launch sshd on a different port with no backgrounding and debug
> output
>   => sshd -d -p 1234
> c) retry above steps with the alternate port
> 
> Peter
> 

Hello Peter,
thank you for this info.
I have try sftp:

/usr/sbin/sshd -d -p 

debug1: subsystem: exec() /usr/lib/openssh/sftp-server
Starting session: subsystem 'sftp' for alice from 2.206.185.146 port
45292 id 0
debug1: Received SIGCHLD.
debug1: session_by_pid: pid 12046
debug1: session_exit_message: session 0 channel 0 pid 12046
debug1: session_exit_message: release channel 0
Received disconnect from 2.206.185.146 port 45292:11: disconnected by user
Disconnected from 2.206.185.146 port 45292
debug1: do_cleanup
debug1: do_cleanup
debug1: PAM: cleanup
debug1: PAM: closing session
debug1: PAM: deleting credentials
debug1: audit_event: unhandled event 12



Try scp:

/usr/sbin/sshd -d -p 

debug1: PAM: establishing credentials
Changed root directory to "/home/alice"
debug1: permanently_set_uid: 1001/1001
debug1: rekey after 134217728 blocks
debug1: rekey after 134217728 blocks
debug1: ssh_packet_set_postauth: called
debug1: Entering interactive session for SSH2.
debug1: server_init_dispatch
debug1: server_input_channel_open: ctype session rchan 0 win 2097152 max
32768
debug1: input_session_request
debug1: channel 0: new [server-session]
debug1: session_new: session 0
debug1: session_open: channel 0
debug1: session_open: session 0: link with channel 0
debug1: server_input_channel_open: confirm session
debug1: server_input_global_request: rtype no-more-sessi...@openssh.com
want_reply 0
debug1: server_input_channel_req: channel 0 request env reply 0
debug1: session_by_channel: session 0 channel 0
debug1: session_input_channel_req: session 0 req env
debug1: server_input_channel_req: channel 0 request exec reply 1
debug1: session_by_channel: session 0 channel 0
debug1: session_input_channel_req: session 0 req exec
Starting session: command for alice from 2.206.185.146 port 45296 id 0
debug1: Received SIGCHLD.
debug1: session_by_pid: pid 12078
debug1: session_exit_message: session 0 channel 0 pid 12078
debug1: session_exit_message: release channel 0
Received disconnect from 2.206.185.146 port 45296:11: disconnected by user
Disconnected from 2.206.185.146 port 45296
debug1: do_cleanup
debug1: do_cleanup
debug1: PAM: cleanup
debug1: PAM: closing session
debug1: PAM: deleting credentials
debug1: audit_event: unhandled event 12

free software to paid work

[Paul Sutton]

Hi

Not sure if this is really the right place for this.

In an effort to reach out to people and recruit much needed help for
contributors to free software,  I just wondered if there were any
examples of where  people have gained either full time work or full time
education places as a result of contributing to free software.

While this may not always be the primary motivation any contributions
are seen by the community as valuable and should be seen by employers or
educational establishments as something that should be taken seriously.

My current contribution is to write documentation for the TorIOS
distribution (based on Debian) but it is designed for older systems.  I
understand how much my contribution is valued.

How can we help people translate what they contribute to something that
they can use as evidence for applications.

If there are a few clear examples of where someone has started out just
contributing and gone on to paid or gaining good qualifications it may
help me generally, but also actually help me sell the idea of
contributing to the right people.

Near me there are lots of group workign with young people for example so
IT teaching seems to be limited to Word, Excel, Powerpoint, outlook
etc,  and much less on developing skills in the more technical areas.

I have found I learn far more by contributing than I have ever done in
most college courses.   So with the right support it should be possible
to build some highly skilled people.

We know how widespread the use of free software is,  so we need to
educate about this too,  most people have never heard of Linux, Debian
etc,  so think everything is Microsoft, or they don't see the demand for
these skills.

Just a thought, if anyone can help or advise this would be great. 

would be great to be able to find more people to help contribute to free
software. 

Paul


Paul

-- 
Paul Sutton
http://www.zleap.net
https://www.linkedin.com/in/zleap/
gnupg : 7D6D B682 F351 8D08 1893  1E16 F086 5537 D066 302D

Re: text editors

[tomas]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 08:39:42AM +, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:

[...]

> LOL. Maybe some gongorzola with mascarpone could be more pratical?

:-)

-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

cronjob runing twice debian stretch

[gro.naibed]

Hello


Does anybody know why we have to entries in our process list of the same 
cronjob?



We run as root: "ps -aux"

Result:
...
root 21514  0.0  0.0  48824  2692 ?S10:28   0:00 /usr/sbin/CRON 
-f
root 21517  0.0  0.0   4276   796 ?Ss   10:28   0:00 /bin/sh -c php 
/var/www/html/bin/console Mailings --env=dev
root 21519 87.4  0.2 394200 121872 ?   R10:28   1:11 php 
/var/www/html/bin/console Mailings --env=dev
...
root 21540  0.0  0.0  0 0 ?S10:28   0:00 [kworker/u66:1]
root 21545  0.0  0.0  48824  2692 ?S10:29   0:00 /usr/sbin/CRON 
-f
root 21548  0.0  0.0   4276   792 ?Ss   10:29   0:00 /bin/sh -c php 
/var/www/html/bin/console Mailings --env=dev
root 21550 78.7  0.1 363480 89840 ?R10:29   0:18 php 
/var/www/html/bin/console Mailings --env=dev
...




The cronjob-file:
* * * * * php /var/www/html/bin/console Mailings --env=dev

There ist only one entry in the cronjob-file and the cronjobfiles from other 
users are emtpy.

We use the follow debian version:
Distributor ID: Debian
Description:Debian GNU/Linux 9.8 (stretch)
Release:9.8
Codename:   stretch



Thank you a lot

Re: text editors

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

> "r" == rlharris   writes:

r> As well as being easy to use for general word processing, Emacs
r> excels in the work of writing scripts, in which the
r> "COMPOSE-A-NEW-MACRO-WHENEVER-YOU-NEED-IT;IT-TAKES-ONLY-A-FEW-SECONDS"
r> ability of Emacs is invaluable.  After all, the name Emacs is an
r> acronym for "Editing MACroS".

r> Need to make alterations to dozens of lines?  If you can figure out
r> a repetitive sequence of keystrokes to accomplish the change, you
r> can save that sequence as a macro.  And those keystrokes can
r> involve searches and operations such as "advance one word", "go to
r> string xxYYz", "go to end of line", "replace xxx with yyy", and so
r> forth.

Or said with other words:

- replace a repetitive task where you are part of a machine the
  "Metropolis" way with the task of creating an automatic solution.

This has a lot to do with your morale at the end of the work day :).

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO

Re: cronjob runing twice debian stretch

[Dan Purgert]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

 wrote:
> Hello
>
>
> Does anybody know why we have to entries in our process list of the
> same cronjob?.
> [...]
> The cronjob-file:
> * * * * * php /var/www/html/bin/console Mailings --env=dev
>
> There ist only one entry in the cronjob-file and the cronjobfiles from
> other users are emtpy.

That job is being kicked off every minute.  If the job itself takes more
than one minute to run, you will see multiple instances of it running.


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEBcqaUD8uEzVNxUrujhHd8xJ5ooEFAlycmwEACgkQjhHd8xJ5
ooFmjwgAqVFUFa8aEX6P+5VqSn/2JTJG9kInRd4s/N25HI30xYWPyysk1BMNeWLd
3K2zU8m8pnXOTeIJRCmo1YrF4okJyaqphtIF2axeFVe5O66MN+qMKGBltsdHMlgO
lvjM0A2sQjYfwBfawfRT9u5ZqnU6UmoDMUS3iFwVBVQAlYPd16PE4PeNeQGvUBMD
yuKZYHPywtnfhVRroz8xxor/fBIeOdZPlEzDtExrui2vGK08wuIPrSxO1USEWobf
8svBZauHexmMwHYZJhmAw772Jid120KWlt50c1Ab/H0rDOTOiQhd1fAB4sCS7+Mw
QUMVOklst+4ffrp8YYa8T9Yh06bviQ==
=9f9y
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

-- 
|_|O|_| 
|_|_|O| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|O|O|O| PGP: 05CA 9A50 3F2E 1335 4DC5  4AEE 8E11 DDF3 1279 A281

Re: text editors

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

> "TL" == Teemu Likonen  writes:


TL> $ emacs /ssh:user@middle-machine\|ssh:user@target-machine:file

This is wickedly interesting!

  T H A N KY O U !

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO

Re: text editors

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

> "d" == deloptes   writes:

d> really, I did not know that you could be me and you knew my
d> experience.  Anyway emacs is not bad for those who know it, but it
d> is impractical because you have mostly vim installed, so learning
d> vim is a must indeed.

Your words would be very different if you had only vi, not vim.

Learn how to do little things with vi is useful indeed, even ed,
chances are you could work in a situation where libcurses is gone.

But vim is an attempt to rewrite emacs the wrong way.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO

Re: text editors

[tomas]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 08:32:40AM +, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
> > "TL" == Teemu Likonen  writes:
> 
> 
> TL> $ emacs /ssh:user@middle-machine\|ssh:user@target-machine:file
> 
> This is wickedly interesting!

If you find that interesting...

imagine you're running your emacs (as a server) and want to
edit that one system file (say /etc/apt/sources.list) as sudo
(without starting an Emacs instance as root).

  M-x find-file  /sudo::/etc/apt/sources.list

(key binding for find-file is C-x C-f, or just use a GUI menu).

will do the trick. It asks you for the necessary password and
will cache it for a configurable time. Should it time out, it'll
ask you again.

The above /ssh:... pattern will have another advantage: if,
while you edit the file, the ssh connection times out or breaks
down, it'll reconnect if necessary (asking you for your password
or ssh key passphrase, as the case may be -- unless your ssh
agent is already taking care of that).

Now imagine you have an ssh access as myuser to myvirtualserver.com.

To edit *there*, as sudo, simply do:

  C-x C-f 
ssh:myu...@myvirtualserver.com|sudo:myvirtualserver.com:/etc/apt/sources.list

This is all courtesy of Tramp, the library for access files
in "non-standard places".

Now enter Org-Mode. This is a kind of markup language (somewhat
reminiscent of Markdown). There you can have links to other
files (or positions therein). Those links can be Tramp paths
as illustrated above.

Bam :-)

So there are many nifty things in Emacs. But the real killer
is the integration of all those nifty things.

Cheers
-- tomás


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: chroot jail for user with rssh

[Peter Wiersig]

basti  writes:
>
> Files inside chroot:
>
> /home/user# find ./
> ./
> ./bin
> ./bin/ls
> ./bin/date
> ./bin/bash
> ./.ssh
> ./.ssh/authorized_keys
> ./lib
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libattr.so.1
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libncurses.so.5
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/librt.so.1
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libbsd.so.0
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libacl.so.1
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libdl.so.2
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpopt.so.0
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpcre.so.3
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libselinux.so.1
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libtinfo.so.5
> ./lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6
> ./etc
> ./etc/group
> ./etc/rssh.conf
> ./etc/passwd
> ./foo
> ./usr
> ./usr/bin
> ./usr/bin/rssh
> ./usr/bin/sftp
> ./usr/bin/rsync
> ./usr/bin/scp
> ./usr/lib
> ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu
> ./usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libedit.so.2
> ./dev
> ./dev/random
> ./dev/zero
> ./dev/null
> ./dev/tty
> ./lib64
> ./lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2

Did you use Russ' supplied script
/usr/share/doc/rss/examples/mkchroot.sh to create that environment?

My contents after that script look quite different to your presented
files.

Did you act on the logging notice after using the script, so that the
syslogd listens to the ./dev/log in the chroot?

Peter

Re: text editors

[to...@tuxteam.de]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:07:58AM +, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
> >writes:

[Tramp sudo method]

> I do not like sudo. In my NSHO it has a lot of hidden traps and is
> shipped in a way that [profanities].

To each its own, hey. As long as you don't sling profanities at me
(I /do/ like sudo) all is well :-)

But for you, Tramp comes also with an /su: "method". And /plink: for
those poor folks trapped in a Windows client with PuTTy. And /smb:
and... OK, OK. Read the docs [1] :-)

Tramp is utterly nifty, but there's more.

Cheers

[1] 
https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/tramp/Quick-Start-Guide.html#Quick-Start-Guide
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: a lot mail

[Iman P.]

so thanks brother

have a nice day
Peyvand

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 2:47 AM David Wright 
wrote:

> On Wed 20 Mar 2019 at 03:45:23 (+0330), Iman P. wrote:
> > I have received lots of mails in my inbox. I checked account setting, but
> > didn't find any item about it.
> > how can I cancel this flow of e-mails?
>
> Assuming you're talking about debian-user, you could unsubscribe at
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/
> and then subscribe again, but check the box underneath the email
> address box, labelled "Use debian-user-digest mailing list, an
> automatic read-only digest of debian-user."
>
> Cheers,
> David.
>
>

Re: text editors

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

> "td" == tomas@tuxteam de  writes:

td> On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:07:58AM +, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
>> >  writes:

td> To each its own, hey. As long as you don't sling profanities at me

Unless you are sudo mantainer :) :) :) (and even in that case, it's
the way sudo is configured by default i disagree with, not the person
that deserve anything)

td> (I /do/ like sudo) all is well :-)

In Italian, sudo means "I sweat" :)

td> But for you, Tramp comes also with an /su: "method". And /plink:
td> for those poor folks trapped in a Windows client with PuTTy. And
td> /smb: and... OK, OK. Read the docs [1] :-)

td> Tramp is utterly nifty, but there's more.

Thank you once more.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO

Re: chroot jail for user with rssh

[basti]

On 28.03.19 12:15,  wrote:

> Did you use Russ' supplied script
> /usr/share/doc/rss/examples/mkchroot.sh to create that environment?
> 
> My contents after that script look quite different to your presented
> files.
> 
> Did you act on the logging notice after using the script, so that the
> syslogd listens to the ./dev/log in the chroot?
> 
> Peter
> 

I have done it with the script.
For sftp it dosed matter if syslogd has a socket or not it work's also.
SFTP is working for now. scp still doesn't.

Re: text editors

[to...@tuxteam.de]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:47:02AM +, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:

[snipped the big CC list, probably unintentional]

> In Italian, sudo means "I sweat" :)

In Spanish too: perhaps that's why I like it.
I long for summers...

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: text editors

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

>writes:

> imagine you're running your emacs (as a server) and want to edit
> that one system file (say /etc/apt/sources.list) as sudo (without
> starting an Emacs instance as root).

I do not like sudo. In my NSHO it has a lot of hidden traps and is
shipped in a way that [profanities].

>   M-x find-file  /sudo::/etc/apt/sources.list

But _this_ is interesting, and here advantages offset problems.  The
perfect thing should be know which tools are used by tramp, so that a
sensible sudo configuration may be provided.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO

Re: chroot jail for user with rssh

[Peter Wiersig]

basti  writes:
> On 28.03.19 08:21, Peter Wiersig wrote:
>> basti  writes:
> Try scp:
>
> /usr/sbin/sshd -d -p 
>
> Starting session: command for alice from 2.206.185.146 port 45296 id 0

So that reads as if all is fine, but then the next line indicates that
the client has terminated the connection, without telling the server AFAIK.

> debug1: Received SIGCHLD.
> debug1: session_by_pid: pid 12078
> debug1: session_exit_message: session 0 channel 0 pid 12078
> debug1: session_exit_message: release channel 0
> Received disconnect from 2.206.185.146 port 45296:11: disconnected by user
> Disconnected from 2.206.185.146 port 45296
> ...
> debug1: audit_event: unhandled event 12

that last line is a bit strange. Are your client/server programs
compatible?

Peter

Re: text editors

[John Hasler]

Gian Uberto Lauri writes:
> But vim is an attempt to rewrite emacs the wrong way.

I don't think that's fair.  Vim is an attempt to extend Vi.  I don't
like it and always run it in "compatible" mode, but that's because Vi
was the first text editor I learned.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: text editors

[David Wright]

On Thu 28 Mar 2019 at 07:51:53 (+0100), deloptes wrote:
> John Hasler wrote:
> 
> > Not true.

[… in response to "exactly - learning emacs means learning lisp - what
for? I switched years ago to ne."]

> really, I did not know that you could be me and you knew my experience.
> Anyway emacs is not bad for those who know it, but it is impractical because
> you have mostly vim installed, so learning vim is a must indeed.
> 
> If you use debian I recommend learning ne - a great editor unfortunately not
> installed by default.

Please, if you're going to criticise someone's comment, include their
comment in your quoting.

If you think that it requires being you or knowing your experience to
judge the statement "learning emacs means learning lisp", then it's
likely that you don't understand what the word "means" means when used
like that.

So we're left wondering why you've stated that learning emacs
necessarily involves learning lisp, either beforehand or at the
same time. I've been using, and learning, emacs for over two
decades and I have no knowledge of lisp other than
. it's used to implement emacs,
. there are lots of dialects,
. it uses lots and lots of parentheses.

Cheers,
David.

Re: text editors

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

> "JH" == John Hasler  writes:

JH> Gian Uberto Lauri writes:
>> But vim is an attempt to rewrite emacs the wrong way.

JH> I don't think that's fair.

I disagree. After all Editor MACroS was once a set of macros for an
editor called TECO, while vim is an extension of vi - that required
even the add of the macro language, AFAIK.

And a "roughly Turing-complete mini-language", sorry, is not a good
thing. Expecially whenn compared with a language that was borne as
a demonstrated Turing-complete formalism :).

Vim may have been a good thing under Amiga (where there were editors
you could have controlled with Arexx, doing _very_ nice automation
jobs :) ).

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO

Re: text editors

[tomas]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 08:00:27AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> Gian Uberto Lauri writes:
> > But vim is an attempt to rewrite emacs the wrong way.
> 
> I don't think that's fair [...]

Me neither. And this is slowly sliding into That Kind Of
Flame War. I had that already... over twenty years ago.

I don't think I need that again.

Cheers & enjoy
-- tomás


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: text editors

[John Hasler]

David writes:
> So we're left wondering why you've stated that learning emacs
> necessarily involves learning lisp, either beforehand or at the same
> time.

Probably because Emacs advocates often over-enthuse about extensibility,
giving the erroneous impression that knowing how to write extensions is a
necessary part of knowing how to use Emacs.

In fact, much of what we now know as Emacs *is* extensions written in
Elisp and many more extensions are available.  You no more need to know
Elisp to use them or to install additional ones than you need to know C
to use Vim.

There is also the fact that the configuration file is written in Elisp
and one once had to know at least a tiny bit of Elisp to edit it.  Now
there is a configuration interface to handle that but the myth lingers
on, along with the myth that one needs to memorize hundreds of esoteric
escape sequences.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: text editors

[tomas]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 09:15:19AM -0500, John Hasler wrote:
> David writes:
> > So we're left wondering why you've stated that learning emacs
> > necessarily involves learning lisp, either beforehand or at the same
> > time.

[...]

> There is also the fact that the configuration file is written in Elisp
> and one once had to know at least a tiny bit of Elisp to edit it [...]

That's as if you say you gotta know Javascript to edit a JSON file.
Well... yes, kinda :-)

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Advantages of downloading Debian packages over tor

[ghe]

On 3/28/19 1:18 AM, André Rodier wrote:

> Is there any advantage, in terms of privacy, to download Debian packages
> over the Tor network?

Tor's job is to keep the trackers away by bouncing your packets around
so Google starts tracking the wrong IP address. But the last hop is in
the clear, so its encryption is less than optimal -- not as thorough as GPG.

Privoxy is, as I understand it, a very competent ad blocker. The two do
different jobs. I used privoxy for a long time, before Tor came along,
but now just use the Firefox addon.

Debian and its mirrors don't do any of the nasty things, I think (hope).
So privoxy wouldn't help at all. And Tor wouldn't be much help unless
some mirrors started tracking people, so Tor might be of some help for
the truly paranoid.

> Are you doing it yourself, and if yes, for what reason(s)?

I don't. It'd never occurred to me. But I, as a true paranoid, will be
looking into it :-)

-- 
Glenn English

Re: text editors

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

> "JH" == John Hasler  writes:

JH> deloptes writes:
>> learning emacs means learning lisp

JH> Not true.

In my experience is true. But needs some more words.

When you intensively start using Emacs, and you start asking to the
editor "Oh, True One Editor, what is the meaning of this keystroke?"
(😊) and see the answer, when you take a look to the .emacs of a more
experienced user, you see, sooner or later you understand that there
is a way to tell Emacs how "to do useful things"[*]. And since these
things are useful to you, you learn to do them. Even if you do not
know that what you are doing is "programming in LISP".

[*] I lost the source where I read that in an organization even
secretaries used Emacs, and that these secretaries learnt how to do
"useful things" without a problem. Mostly because they were unaware
they were programming.

-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO

Re: Advantages of downloading Debian packages over tor

[tomas]

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 08:27:08AM -0600, ghe wrote:
> On 3/28/19 1:18 AM, André Rodier wrote:
> 
> > Is there any advantage, in terms of privacy, to download Debian packages
> > over the Tor network?
> 
> Tor's job is to keep the trackers away by bouncing your packets around
> so Google starts tracking the wrong IP address.

No. Because the least Google track is your IP address. It is true that
Tor is meant to obscure your IP address, but "trackers", in your use
of the word, are mostly Javascript code snippets (sometimes invisible
images and things like that) made to convince your browser to betray
you. And it'll betray you even through Tor.

Cheers
-- t


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: text editors

[Gian Uberto Lauri]

> "JH" == John Hasler  writes:

JH> In fact, much of what we now know as Emacs *is* extensions written
JH> in Elisp and many more extensions are available.

Emacs is written mostly in Elisp. What is not in lisp, AFAIK, is the
interpreter and the most used and heavy functions.

JH> You no more need
JH> to know Elisp to use them or to install additional ones than you
JH> need to know C to use Vim.

Perfect!


-- 
 /\   ___Ubuntu: ancient
/___/\_|_|\_|__|___Gian Uberto Lauri_   African word
  //--\| | \|  |   Integralista GNUslamicomeaning "I can
\/ coltivatore diretto di software   not install
 già sistemista a tempo (altrui) perso...Debian"

Warning: gnome-config-daemon considered more dangerous than GOTO

Understanding (some) Lisp (was: Re: text editors)

[rhkramer]

As an exercise for myself (having once had to "learn" Lisp in school, and more 
than once having tried to learn to use EMACS (before the days of the mouse and 
menu, iirc)), I decided to see if I could understand any of the code.

I think I got the gist of most of it, but I don't understand why the double 
parenthesis around "((inhibit-read-only t))"?

On Monday, March 25, 2019 08:29:17 AM Teemu Likonen wrote:
> GNU Emacs has text properties which can be added to any piece of text.
> One of the properties is named "read-only". I made two functions to
> handle the situation you described.
> 
> Put these function to you Emacs's init file (~/.emacs or
> ~/.emacs.d/init.el):
> 
> 
> (defun read-only-region (beg end)
>   "Makes a region in the current buffer read only, from buffer
> position BEG to END. If this function is called interactively use
> the current hightlighted region."
>   (interactive "r")
>   (add-text-properties beg end '(read-only t)))
> 
> (defun remove-read-only ()
>   "Remove all read only text properties from the current buffer."
>   (interactive)
>   (let ((inhibit-read-only t))
> (remove-text-properties (point-min) (point-max)
> '(read-only t
> 
> 
> Select some text in a buffer and execute command "Alt+x
> read-only-region". That area becomes read only. To remove all read only
> text areas from the current buffer execute command "Alt+x
> remove-read-only".

Re: chroot jail for user with rssh

[basti]

On 28.03.19 13:43, Peter Wiersig wrote:
> basti  writes:
>> On 28.03.19 08:21, Peter Wiersig wrote:
>>> basti  writes:
>> Try scp:
>>
>> /usr/sbin/sshd -d -p 
>>
>> Starting session: command for alice from 2.206.185.146 port 45296 id 0
> 
> So that reads as if all is fine, but then the next line indicates that
> the client has terminated the connection, without telling the server AFAIK.
> 
>> debug1: Received SIGCHLD.
>> debug1: session_by_pid: pid 12078
>> debug1: session_exit_message: session 0 channel 0 pid 12078
>> debug1: session_exit_message: release channel 0
>> Received disconnect from 2.206.185.146 port 45296:11: disconnected by user
>> Disconnected from 2.206.185.146 port 45296
>> ...
>> debug1: audit_event: unhandled event 12
> 
> that last line is a bit strange. Are your client/server programs
> compatible?
> 
> Peter
> 

It seem to be a problem with /usr/bin/rssh login shell. If the use has
/bin/bash it works fine. So i hope it is not possible to breaking out of
chroot jail.

Re: Advantages of downloading Debian packages over tor

[John Hasler]

tomas writes:
> No. Because the least Google track is your IP address. It is true that
> Tor is meant to obscure your IP address, but "trackers", in your use
> of the word, are mostly Javascript code snippets (sometimes invisible
> images and things like that) made to convince your browser to betray
> you. And it'll betray you even through Tor.

But JS trackers are easily blocked by simply disallowing JS.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Understanding (some) Lisp

[Teemu Likonen]

rhkra...@gmail.com [2019-03-28 12:00:44-04] wrote:

> I think I got the gist of most of it, but I don't understand why the
> double parenthesis around "((inhibit-read-only t))"?

"let" is a special operator which creates new variable bindings. The
syntax is like this:

(let list-of-variable-bindings
  code-forms)

And each bindings is in the form of (variable value):

(let ((variable1 value1)
  (variable2 value2)
  (variable3 value3)
  ;; ...
  (variable-n value-n))
  ;; Code that may use those variable bindings.
  )

So logically if there is only one variable binding it looks like this:

(let ((variable value))
  ;; code
  )

Here's a link to Common Lisp specification about LET and LET* special
operator. Emacs Lisp is different Lisp dialect but it's often quite
close to Common Lisp.

http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen   - .-..    //
// PGP: 4E10 55DC 84E9 DFF6 13D7 8557 719D 69D3 2453 9450 ///


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: text editors

[David Wright]

On Thu 28 Mar 2019 at 08:30:47 (+), Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:
> > "JH" == John Hasler  writes:
> 
> JH> deloptes writes:
> >> learning emacs means learning lisp
> 
> JH> Not true.
> 
> In my experience is true. But needs some more words.
> 
> When you intensively start using Emacs, and you start asking to the
> editor "Oh, True One Editor, what is the meaning of this keystroke?"
> (😊) and see the answer, when you take a look to the .emacs of a more
> experienced user, you see, sooner or later you understand that there
> is a way to tell Emacs how "to do useful things"[*]. And since these
> things are useful to you, you learn to do them. Even if you do not
> know that what you are doing is "programming in LISP".
> 
> [*] I lost the source where I read that in an organization even
> secretaries used Emacs, and that these secretaries learnt how to do
> "useful things" without a problem. Mostly because they were unaware
> they were programming.

I would have thought that secretaries were more competent at
cut-and-paste than I am, and that is the way in which I have assembled
my ~250 line emacs startup file. That, and substituting one string
for another in these pasted sections and seeing if they still work.
I'm afraid I don't call that programming in *lisp or learning *lisp.

Some of the code dates back to lenny, and I have no idea whether it
ought still to be there, or whether it's having a desirable or
undesirable effect. I suspect it, and some other bits have atrophied.

When I read through it (like now), I find useful things that I'd
forgotten I had set up. OTOH I rely on much of it all the time.

If you call the programming/learning, then that's where our
disagreement lies, and not in emacs at all. You could equally
be talking about those incantations that I feed to ALSA.

Cheers,
David.

Re: text editors

[John Hasler]

Gian writes:
> [*] I lost the source where I read that in an organization even
> secretaries used Emacs, and that these secretaries learnt how to do
> "useful things" without a problem. Mostly because they were unaware
> they were programming.

It was secretaries in the patent department at Bell Labs.  They were
using troff and friends on Unix for typesetting and learned to write
shell scripts.  This probably all happened before Emacs was operational.
They would have been editing with Ed.
-- 
John "Bell Labs secretaries may have been a bit above average" Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Setting up a VLAN tagged bonding device

[John W. M. Stevens]

I've tried six different sets of instructions, and at this point, I'm at 
a loss.  Is it even possible to set up an 802.3ad bond that uses VLAN 
tagging under Debian 9.1?


I have a working setup with bonding.  I need to modify this setup to 
VLAN tag the bond.


The working setup is:

auto bond0
iface bond0 inet static
    address 10.10.110.222
    netmask 255.255.0.0
    network 10.10.0.0
    broadcast 10.10.255.255
    bond-mode 802.3ad
    bond-miimon 100
    bond-lacp-rate 1
    bond-min-links 1
    bond-xmit-hash-policy layer2
    bond-slaves eno3 eno4 enp3s0f1

auto eno3
iface eno3 inet manual
    bond-master bond0

auto eno4
iface eno4 inet manual
    bond-master bond0

auto enp3s0f1
iface enp3s0f1 inet manual
    bond-master bond0

This results in a /proc/net/bonding/bond0 output of:

# cat /proc/net/bonding/bond0
Ethernet Channel Bonding Driver: v3.7.1 (April 27, 2011)

Bonding Mode: IEEE 802.3ad Dynamic link aggregation
Transmit Hash Policy: layer2 (0)
MII Status: up
MII Polling Interval (ms): 100
Up Delay (ms): 0
Down Delay (ms): 0

802.3ad info
LACP rate: fast
Min links: 0
Aggregator selection policy (ad_select): stable
System priority: 65535
System MAC address: d0:94:66:04:fc:ed
Active Aggregator Info:
    Aggregator ID: 2
    Number of ports: 3
    Actor Key: 9
    Partner Key: 3
    Partner Mac Address: 00:1c:73:61:a9:25

Slave Interface: eno3
MII Status: up
Speed: 1000 Mbps
Duplex: full
Link Failure Count: 1
Permanent HW addr: d0:94:66:04:fc:ed
Slave queue ID: 0
Aggregator ID: 2
Actor Churn State: none
Partner Churn State: none
Actor Churned Count: 0
Partner Churned Count: 0
details actor lacp pdu:
    system priority: 65535
    system mac address: d0:94:66:04:fc:ed
    port key: 9
    port priority: 255
    port number: 1
    port state: 63
details partner lacp pdu:
    system priority: 8192
    system mac address: 00:1c:73:61:a9:25
    oper key: 3
    port priority: 32768
    port number: 9
    port state: 63

Slave Interface: eno4
MII Status: up
Speed: 1000 Mbps
Duplex: full
Link Failure Count: 1
Permanent HW addr: d0:94:66:04:fc:ef
Slave queue ID: 0
Aggregator ID: 2
Actor Churn State: none
Partner Churn State: none
Actor Churned Count: 0
Partner Churned Count: 0
details actor lacp pdu:
    system priority: 65535
    system mac address: d0:94:66:04:fc:ed
    port key: 9
    port priority: 255
    port number: 2
    port state: 63
details partner lacp pdu:
    system priority: 8192
    system mac address: 00:1c:73:61:a9:25
    oper key: 3
    port priority: 32768
    port number: 7
    port state: 63

Slave Interface: enp3s0f1
MII Status: up
Speed: 1000 Mbps
Duplex: full
Link Failure Count: 1
Permanent HW addr: 00:0a:f7:9e:74:0b
Slave queue ID: 0
Aggregator ID: 2
Actor Churn State: none
Partner Churn State: none
Actor Churned Count: 0
Partner Churned Count: 0
details actor lacp pdu:
    system priority: 65535
    system mac address: d0:94:66:04:fc:ed
    port key: 9
    port priority: 255
    port number: 3
    port state: 63
details partner lacp pdu:
    system priority: 8192
    system mac address: 00:1c:73:61:a9:25
    oper key: 3
    port priority: 32768
    port number: 8
    port state: 63

My attempt to VLAN tag this is:

auto eno3
iface eno3 inet manual
    bond-master bond0

auto eno4
iface eno4 inet manual
    bond-master bond0

auto enp3s0f1
iface enp3s0f1 inet manual
    bond-master bond0

auto bond0
iface bond0 inet manual
    pre-up ifconfig bond0 0.0.0.0 up
    bond-mode 802.3ad
    bond-miimon 100
    bond-downdelay 200
    bond-updelay 200
    bond-lacp-rate 1
    bond-min-links 1
    bond-xmit-hash-policy layer2
    bond-slaves eno3 eno4 enp3s0f1

auto bond0.10
iface bond0.10 inet static
    address 10.10.110.222
    netmask 255.255.0.0
    vlan-raw-device bond0

This results in what is clearly a non-working bond:

# cat /proc/net/bonding/bond0
Ethernet Channel Bonding Driver: v3.7.1 (April 27, 2011)

Bonding Mode: load balancing (round-robin)
MII Status: down
MII Polling Interval (ms): 100
Up Delay (ms): 200
Down Delay (ms): 200

Slave Interface: eno3
MII Status: down
Speed: 1000 Mbps
Duplex: full
Link Failure Count: 1
Permanent HW addr: d0:94:66:04:fb:3d
Slave queue ID: 0

Slave Interface: eno4
MII Status: down
Speed: 1000 Mbps
Duplex: full
Link Failure Count: 1
Permanent HW addr: d0:94:66:04:fb:3f
Slave queue ID: 0

Slave Interface: enp3s0f1
MII Status: down
Speed: Unknown
Duplex: Unknown
Link Failure Count: 1
Permanent HW addr: 00:0a:f7:9e:72:05
Slave queue ID: 0

None of the six sets of instructions I've tried has gotten me any closer 
to a working configuration.  Bringing up the slaves manually does not 
change anything except the status line of the slaves, though it is 
unclear to me if this is because the switch has not yet been reconfigured.


So, two questions:

1) Is this even supported?

2) Does anybody have a working example configuration for such a thing?

Thanks,

John S.

Re: text editors

[Pierre Fourès]

Le jeu. 28 mars 2019 à 11:32,  a écrit :
>
> If you find that interesting...
>
> imagine you're running your emacs (as a server) and want to
> [...]
>
> Bam :-)
>
> So there are many nifty things in Emacs. But the real killer
> is the integration of all those nifty things.
>

Wow, this gave me the desire to give a real serious try to Emacs !

Re: Setting up a VLAN tagged bonding device

[Sven Hartge]

John W. M. Stevens  wrote:

> 2) Does anybody have a working example configuration for such a thing?

Sure.

Please not I don't use any configuration for int0, int1, ext0 and ext1.
You need to do that on Ubuntu because of something they broke.  It is
not needed in Debian.

This is the fill working configuration from one of my production
routers:

---8<--

### internal network

auto bond0
iface bond0 inet manual
  bond_mode 802.3ad
  bond_miimon 100 
  bond_updelay 1000
  bond_lacp_rate slow
  bond_xmit_hash_policy layer2+3
  slaves int0 int1

auto bond0.135
iface bond0.135 inet static
  address xxx.yyy.14.218
  netmask 255.255.255.248
  up ip route add 10.0.0.0/8 via xxx.yyy.14.220 dev $IFACE
  up ip route add 172.16.0.0/12 via xxx.yyy.14.220 dev $IFACE
  up ip route add 192.168.0.0/16 via xxx.yyy.14.220 dev $IFACE

### external network

auto bond1
iface bond1 inet manual
  bond_mode 802.3ad
  bond_miimon 100 
  bond_updelay 1000
  bond_lacp_rate slow
  bond_xmit_hash_policy layer2+3
  slaves ext0 ext1

auto bond1.160
iface bond1.160 inet static
  address xxx.yyy.14.213
  netmask 255.255.255.248
  gateway xxx.yyy.14.209

---8<--

Grüße,
Sven.

-- 
Sigmentation fault. Core dumped.

Re: text editors

[Curt]

On 2019-03-28, John Hasler  wrote:
> Gian writes:
>> [*] I lost the source where I read that in an organization even
>> secretaries used Emacs, and that these secretaries learnt how to do
>> "useful things" without a problem. Mostly because they were unaware
>> they were programming.
>
> It was secretaries in the patent department at Bell Labs.  They were
> using troff and friends on Unix for typesetting and learned to write
> shell scripts.  This probably all happened before Emacs was operational.
> They would have been editing with Ed.

I think a gorilla learned sign language once.

This is much more impressive, though. 

Re: text editors

[rlharris]

On 2019.03.28 03:16, Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:

"r" == rlharris   writes:

r> Need to make alterations to dozens of lines?  If you can figure out
r> a repetitive sequence of keystrokes to accomplish the change, you

...

Or said with other words:
- replace a repetitive task where you are part of a machine the
  "Metropolis" way with the task of creating an automatic solution.


But when the first task is going to take an hour and severely tax your 
manual (finger) dexterity, whereas the replacement takes about a minute 
and requires only a bit of mental dexterity...  The end-of-day morale is 
boosted by such success in boosting productivity.


Once you start using Emacs macros and see the benefit, you likely shall 
find yourself creating and using numerous macros within each editing 
session.  You demonstrate once to the robot, and the robot faithfully 
mimics you, without error.  The only question is whether you are willing 
to teach the robot by recording your keystrokes in a macro (it takes two 
keystrokes).

Re: Archival of Jessie: where did jessie-updates went ?

[Pierre Fourès]

Le mar. 26 mars 2019 à 13:45, Pierre Fourès  a écrit :
>
> My current /etc/apt/sources.list looks like this :
> > deb http://http.debian.net/debian jessie main
> > deb http://security.debian.org/ jessie/updates main
> > deb http://archive.debian.org/debian jessie-backports main
>
> It now just feel strange to have the main source on http.debian.net
> and the backports on http://archive.debian.org. I guess I will update
> my two-stage procedure to converge in order to grab everything from
> the archive. Or would it be advisable to still grab the non-backports
> packages from the mirrors ? I ponder this both 1/ not to add avoidable
> load to the archive server (who could be handled throught the mirrors
> network), 2/ speed and bandwidth wise regarding the reinstallation of
> my instances. What would be recommanded ?

Here is my follow up to relate that I eventually took a decision on
this particular point. I will still keep http.debian.net for the
stable source of jessie as it is still active (as maintained in the
LTS), while using archive.debian.org for the backports in order to
emphasize the backports are archived and not maintained anymore.
Thankfully, I don't use the backports on every instances of jessie
currently running and this will help me prioritize which of them
should be upgraded first to stretch. This will look odd, but for a
good reason.

keyboard macros (was: Re: text editors)

[rhkramer]

Not responding specifically to the following, but keyboard / keystroke macros 
are not a strictly EMACS function, and I don't think EMACS was first.  I can't 
remember all of them, I do know nedit has them, I sort of recall that wordstar 
or the shareware editor that used the same keyboard shortcuts (on DOS) also 
had them,

Just saying, you don't need EMACS to get the benefit of keyboard macros.

On Thursday, March 28, 2019 01:34:49 PM rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:
> But when the first task is going to take an hour and severely tax your
> manual (finger) dexterity, whereas the replacement takes about a minute
> and requires only a bit of mental dexterity...  The end-of-day morale is
> boosted by such success in boosting productivity.
> 
> Once you start using Emacs macros and see the benefit, you likely shall
> find yourself creating and using numerous macros within each editing
> session.  You demonstrate once to the robot, and the robot faithfully
> mimics you, without error.  The only question is whether you are willing
> to teach the robot by recording your keystrokes in a macro (it takes two
> keystrokes).

Re: keyboard macros

[John Hasler]

rhkramer writes:
> Not responding specifically to the following, but keyboard / keystroke
> macros are not a strictly EMACS function, and I don't think EMACS was
> first.

TEMACS had them, of course.  In fact, that's pretty much what TEMACS
*was*.  Emacs was initially built on TEMACS.

No, you don't need Emacs to get the benefit of keyboard macros.  You
also don't need to learn how to create keyboard macros to get some of
the benefits of Emacs.
-- 
John "I once actually *used* TEMACS" Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: keyboard macros

[rlharris]

On 2019.03.28 12:58, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
Not responding specifically to the following, but keyboard / keystroke 
macros

are not a strictly EMACS function, and I don't think EMACS was first.

...
Just saying, you don't need EMACS to get the benefit of keyboard 
macros.


The package with which macros originated matters not to me; what matters 
is the packages which today offer keyboard macros.


But in my case, macros are the icing on the cake.  The event which 
motivated me to depart from the realm of M$DOS and seek a (rodentless) 
open source editor was a genuine Y2K bug, admitted by M$, which caused 
M$ Word 5.0 for DOS to write garbage to the data files.


The tedious and largely-frustrating attempt to recover the text of 
hundreds of Word 5.0 files taught me an indelible lesson regarding the 
folly of proprietary encodings, and it taught me the propriety of the 
markup approach, in which the data file contains nothing but ASCII 
characters.


None of the numerous recovery packages I found back then were able to 
recover text with italic, bolface, and underline, though preservation of 
these attributes is infinitely more vital than is preservation of 
sectioning and even of paragraph divisions.


Coming from a rodentless background (typewriter, early dedicated word 
processors, and even M$ Word 5.0 for DOS), I have little use for the 
rodent, and I have even less tolerance for the beast.  From my 
perspective, the rodent is not a cute little "mouse"; it is an ugly and 
troublesome rat.

Re: jessie-updates missing

[Liam O'Toole]

On 2019-03-26, Mike Malcolm  wrote:
> --07ffdc0584fd528b
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hello,
>
> My project has failed to deploy and I'm seeing that there is a 404 error
> when trying to access jessie-updates.
>
> When I go to http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/
>
> I see that the jessie-updates is missing.
>
> Please advise.
>

Jessie received its last update in June of last year. The contents of
jessie-updates were merged with jessie at that time. Therefore the
former is redundant.

-- 

Liam

Re: keyboard macros

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 3/28/19, John Hasler  wrote:
> rhkramer writes:
>> Not responding specifically to the following, but keyboard / keystroke
>> macros are not a strictly EMACS function, and I don't think EMACS was
>> first.
>
> TEMACS had them, of course.  In fact, that's pretty much what TEMACS
> *was*.  Emacs was initially built on TEMACS.
>
> No, you don't need Emacs to get the benefit of keyboard macros.  You
> also don't need to learn how to create keyboard macros to get some of
> the benefits of Emacs.


Emacs has received a regular mention in a few places around the Web.
Based on this today, I tried a quick "apt-cache search" which
responded back with a very short list (that included JavaScript,
Python, and "BeanShell" package references for Libreoffice).

So I checked out Emacs' description in hopes of hints toward a
possibly better keyword search. Its description is rather "brief". It
could maybe use some fan love, e.g. an unordered list of fans'
favorite features, such that it bubbles up when users go searching
their package repositories for its particular talents:

+++ BEGIN EMACS PACKAGE DESCRIPTION +++

Description-en: GNU Emacs editor (with GTK+ GUI support)
 GNU Emacs is the extensible self-documenting text editor.  This
 package contains a version of Emacs with a graphical user interface
 based on GTK+ (instead of the Lucid toolkit provided by the
 emacs-lucid package).

+++ END EMACS PACKAGE DESCRIPTION +++

It's been on my to-do (eventually) list for a while. Its download size
(indicating some potential feature heft) plus today's exchange about
it has shifted it to a must-do. :)

Those same very short search query results also suggested something
called "onboard":

+++ BEGIN ONBOARD PACKAGE DESCRIPTION +++

Description-en: Simple On-screen Keyboard
 On-screen Keyboard with macros, easy layout creation and word suggestion.
 .
 This on-screen keyboard can be useful for tablet PC users, as well as
 for mobility impaired users.

+++ END ONBOARD PACKAGE DESCRIPTION +++

Very cool about the mobility related disabilities consideration there.
That's a personal fave to remind people about related to computer
usage, including web design layout, e.g. don't force users to have to
reach and continuously scroll any more than absolutely necessary per
webpage.

Cindy :)
-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with birdseed *

Re: keyboard macros

[John Hasler]

 rlharris writes:
> Coming from a rodentless background (typewriter, early dedicated word
> processors, and even M$ Word 5.0 for DOS), I have little use for the
> rodent, and I have even less tolerance for the beast.  From my
> perspective, the rodent is not a cute little "mouse"; it is an ugly
> and troublesome rat.

Coming from even farther back (manual typewriter, coding sheets, punch
cards, text terminals) I find my trackball very useful.

The mouse, on the other hand, is a silly design based on the assumption
that you can only grasp the idea of moving the cursor around on the
screen by moving your entire hand around on your desk.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: Advantages of downloading Debian packages over tor

[Lee]

On 3/28/19, André Rodier  wrote:
> On 2019-03-28 16:12, John Hasler wrote:
>> tomas writes:
>>> No. Because the least Google track is your IP address. It is true that
>>> Tor is meant to obscure your IP address, but "trackers", in your use
>>> of the word, are mostly Javascript code snippets (sometimes invisible
>>> images and things like that) made to convince your browser to betray
>>> you. And it'll betray you even through Tor.
>>
>> But JS trackers are easily blocked by simply disallowing JS.
>
> I have not seen any valid reason to download packages over tor, neither
> to use the apt-transport-tor package.

If you get your packages from an .onion site you get end-to-end
encryption as well as hiding which packages you've downloaded from
whoever is watching your network traffic.

ref
https://bits.debian.org/2016/08/debian-and-tor-services-available-as-onion-services.html

Regards
Lee

Re: text editors

[deloptes]

to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> Eating roquefort is impractical because you gotta drink wine anyway :-)
> 
hahaha, true!

> Look -- you can do both (I do). If you're looking for excuses to stay
> away from Emacs: no need to, just do. But as little need to spread FUD
> about Emacs. Yes, Emacs is a decent editor. No, you don't /have/ to
> know Lisp to use it. Yes, if you do learn Lisp, you get powers few
> other editors give you. Yes, Emacs is somewhat idiosincratic (as Vi(m)
> is -- most powerful editors seem to be).

I've been there exactly 17y ago. I still have no idea where lisp is used
except in Emacs and some exotic projects, so being pragmatic ... good for
you who know emacs - for the rest good that you do not know emacs. I can
not be more balanced :)

regards

Re: text editors

[deloptes]

Gian Uberto Lauri wrote:

> d> really, I did not know that you could be me and you knew my
> d> experience.  Anyway emacs is not bad for those who know it, but it
> d> is impractical because you have mostly vim installed, so learning
> d> vim is a must indeed.
> 
> Your words would be very different if you had only vi, not vim.
> 

Last time I have seen only vi in crippled variant was on Solaris8 in 2007.
The first time I was free for couple of hours between two projects I
compiled vim ... I received many cups of coffee from everyone useing the
~60+ Solaris systems in the landscape.

> Learn how to do little things with vi is useful indeed, even ed,
> chances are you could work in a situation where libcurses is gone.
> 
> But vim is an attempt to rewrite emacs the wrong way.
> 
Anyway no need to advocate for emacs or vim. Usually you get linux with vim
you can invoke like vi or vim.

My personal choice is ne on debian. For everything else there are decent
editors with GUI. My preference is eclipse and kate ... but it also doesn't
matter. I simply can not find any logical or practical argument learning or
using emacs ... and I work with linux servers on daily bases.

Come one - this is just about sharing opinions!

regards

Re: text editors

[deloptes]

John Hasler wrote:

> In fact, much of what we now know as Emacs *is* extensions written in
> Elisp and many more extensions are available.  You no more need to know
> Elisp to use them or to install additional ones than you need to know C
> to use Vim.

I prefer learning C ;-)

Re: text editors

[deloptes]

Pierre Fourès wrote:

>> So there are many nifty things in Emacs. But the real killer
>> is the integration of all those nifty things.
>>
> 
> Wow, this gave me the desire to give a real serious try to Emacs !

Don't sell your soul to the devil (jokingly) :D

Re: text editors

[Matyáš Bobek]

I reckon writing vim extensions in C must be quite obscure... How is it
done?

On 3/28/19 9:24 PM, deloptes wrote:
> John Hasler wrote:
>
>> In fact, much of what we now know as Emacs *is* extensions written in
>> Elisp and many more extensions are available.  You no more need to know
>> Elisp to use them or to install additional ones than you need to know C
>> to use Vim.
> I prefer learning C ;-)
>
-- 
Matyáš Bobek

// PGP: D4C6 A4B7 F978 A4FD 34A6  1EBE F796 E3F7 ED66 5933 //




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: stretch install for amd64-9.8.0 problems.

[Gene Heskett]

On Wednesday 27 March 2019 19:29:55 Steve McIntyre wrote:

> Gene Heskett wrote:
> >On Wednesday 27 March 2019 13:31:35 Steve McIntyre wrote:
> >> In article <201903271310.25490.ghesk...@shentel.net> you write:
> >> >I pulled and burnt the netinstall, bad burn or bad checksum, but
> >> > can't find the checksums for the netinstalls.
> >>
> >> They sit alongside the iso images - see
> >>
> >>   https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/9.8.0/amd64/iso-cd/
> >>
> >> >So I go back and get the DVD-1.jigdo.
> >> >
> >> >Now where do I find the template for DVD-1 of 9.8.0 for amd64?
> >>
> >> alongside the .jigdo file in
> >>
> >>   https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/9.8.0/amd64/jigdo-dvd/
> >>
> >> >All I can get out of jigdo-lite after giving it a US mirror
> >> > address is a request for a non-US address as the files don't
> >> > exist, and I've tried several sites now.
> >> >
> >> >debian.org's search doesn't find them either.  Whats the official
> >> > story here? I can't get a verifiable netinstall, and jigdo can't
> >> > find a file to download.
> >>
> >> jigdo-lite should fall back (eventually) to snapshot.debian.org and
> >> find all its files there. Although for 9.8 (the current release!)
> >> all the files should be on the normal mirrors already. Which files
> >> is it not finding?
> >
> >It hasn't found any so far.
>
> OK, that *is* odd. When it prompted you for a Debian mirror, what did
> you tell it? Running locally here, trying both with my local mirror
> and a well-known UK mirror (http://mirror.bytemark.co.uk/debian/)
> things are working fine.

I tried to boot the newest netinstall, but it hammers on my writer 
apparntly forever. then not trusting a cd that wasn't booting anything I 
could see, I hit the power switch, and its taken me this long to locate 
another 400 watt ATX supply that will start when you push the button.

So Now I have some catching up to do before I can get back to this.

Thanks for so far.

Cheers, Gene Heskett
-- 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page 

Re: Emacs and hunspell

[Alfredo Finelli]

Johann Spies [28.03.2019, 10:38 +0200]:
> I, so far, did not manage to use hunspell with emacs.  After reading a lot
> on the internet, inter alia emacs-wiki and stackexchange and trying out
> different recipes, still no success.
>
> My latest effort in .emacs:
>
> (with-eval-after-load "ispell"
>   (setq ispell-program-name "hunspell")
>   (setq ispell-dictionary "af_ZA")
>   ;; ispell-set-spellchecker-params has to be called
>   ;; before ispell-hunspell-add-multi-dic will work
>   (ispell-set-spellchecker-params)
>   (ispell-hunspell-add-multi-dic "af_ZA,en_ZA"))
>
> (setq ispell-program-name (executable-find "hunspell")
>   ispell-dictionary "af_ZA")
> produces the following error message when trying to use the spell process:
>
> ispell-get-decoded-string: No data for dictionary "af_ZA" in
> ‘ispell-local-dictionary-alist’ or ‘ispell-dictionary-alist’

This is how I managed to make it work for me; what follows is in my
init.el file:

  ;;-- Spelling --
  (with-eval-after-load "ispell"
(setq ispell-program-name (executable-find "hunspell")
  ispell-skip-html t
  ispell-local-dictionary-alist
  '(("en_US" "[[:alpha:]]" "[^[:alpha:]]" "[']"
 nil ("-d" "en_US") nil utf-8)
("it_IT" "[[:alpha:]]" "[^[:alpha:]]" "[-]"
 nil ("-d" "it_IT") nil utf-8)
("fr_FR" "[[:alpha:]]" "[^[:alpha:]]" "[-]"
 nil ("-d" "fr_FR") nil utf-8)
("de_DE" "[[:alpha:]]" "[^[:alpha:]]" "[-]"
 nil ("-d" "de_DE") nil utf-8))
ispell-dictionary "en_US"))

I use those four languages, but only one at a time.  I tried to adapt my
configuration to a multi-dictionary setup by adding one more item in
ispell-local-dictionary-alist like this:

  ("de_DE,it_IT" "[[:alpha:]]" "[^[:alpha:]]" "[-]"
   nil ("-d" "de_DE,it_IT") nil utf-8)

then, when I use the function ispell-change-dictionary, I can choose
"de_DE,it_IT" from the list of available options and hunspell uses both
dictionaries at the same time.

Keep in mind that there is also bug #916227 [1] related to how emacs
finds installed dictionaries; it is still open but there is a patch
pending.

[1]  https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=916227

> From what I have read emacs (1:26.1+1-3.2) should just work with hunspell
> even if you just set the last two lines of the above configuration.
> However, it does not seem to pick up the dictionaries.
>
> How do I get it to work?
>
> Regards
> Johann

Hope this helps, best regards.

Alfredo

Re: Advantages of downloading Debian packages over tor

[ghe]

On 3/28/19 9:17 AM, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

> No. Because the least Google track is your IP address. It is true that
> Tor is meant to obscure your IP address, but "trackers", in your use
> of the word, are mostly Javascript code snippets (sometimes invisible
> images and things like that) made to convince your browser to betray
> you. And it'll betray you even through Tor.

Rats. Got a fix for that?

-- 
Glenn English

Re: text editors

[deloptes]

Matyáš Bobek wrote:

> I reckon writing vim extensions in C must be quite obscure... How is it
> done?

I just started with C and never needed to write extension so far, but I did
use C to solve some kernel bugs :D

Emacs without knowing any Lisp (was: text editors)

[Ben Finney]

deloptes  writes:

> I've been there exactly 17y ago. I still have no idea where lisp is used
> except in Emacs and some exotic projects, so being pragmatic ... good for
> you who know emacs - for the rest good that you do not know emacs.

I've been a happy and productive Emacs user for more than 17 years and
still don't edit any Lisp. It just isn't necessary to get things done.

(I hear the Atom text editor is implemented in JavaScript; that doesn't
imply JavaScript knowledge is needed to use Atom.)

With that knowledge, hopefully more people can explore using Emacs
https://tuhdo.github.io/emacs-tutor.html>.

-- 
 \  “The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not |
  `\  you believe in it.” —Neil deGrasse Tyson, 2011-02-04 |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

Re: text editors

[Erik Christiansen]

On 28.03.19 12:34, rlhar...@oplink.net wrote:
> Once you start using Emacs macros and see the benefit, you likely shall find
> yourself creating and using numerous macros within each editing session.
> You demonstrate once to the robot, and the robot faithfully mimics you,
> without error.  The only question is whether you are willing to teach the
> robot by recording your keystrokes in a macro (it takes two keystrokes

in Vim or Emacs. 

> ).

Re: text editors

[Erik Christiansen]

On 28.03.19 21:32, Matyáš Bobek wrote:
> I reckon writing vim extensions in C must be quite obscure... How is it
> done?

It's not. They are written in vimscript, analogous to elisp. There is a
large landscape of add-ons written in the language, and a choice of
managers to automate the minor tedium of installing them in the right
place. The few bits of vimscript in my .vimrc are minimal, such as a
function to append section length in lines or pages when the section is
folded.

Erik

Re: Emacs without knowing any Lisp (was: text editors)

[Bill Wood]

On Fri, 2019-03-29 at 12:48 +1100, Ben Finney wrote:
> deloptes  writes:
> 
> > I've been there exactly 17y ago. I still have no idea where lisp is used
> > except in Emacs and some exotic projects, so being pragmatic ... good for
> > you who know emacs - for the rest good that you do not know emacs.
> 
> I've been a happy and productive Emacs user for more than 17 years and
> still don't edit any Lisp. It just isn't necessary to get things done.
> 
> (I hear the Atom text editor is implemented in JavaScript; that doesn't
> imply JavaScript knowledge is needed to use Atom.)
> 
> With that knowledge, hopefully more people can explore using Emacs
> https://tuhdo.github.io/emacs-tutor.html>.
> 
FWIW I've been using emacs on mainframes, workstations, and PCs since
about 1984.  I've found the elisp programmatic interface useful since I
first cobbled together a set of rectangle-oriented tools (since replaced
by the rectangle commands provided by more recent versions of emacs; see
section 9.5 of the emacs manual for emacs 24).  I also use Common Lisp
for most of my application programming, which involves either
mathematical programming (bignums and big rationals are wonderful for
some number theoretic computations) or interesting computational
problems (suffix trees for classical cryptanalysis, exploring patterns
in calendars, whatever catches my eye).  I've recently been developing
tools to assist extracting text from web sites and reformatting as
page-oriented documents rather than unpaged HTML (personal preference;
I'm an old fart who likes documents with real pages, footnotes, headers
and footers, etc.)  The elisp tools help me transform scraped text into
LaTeX source files.  I also put together some Python scripts for setting
up and managing the directory structure for extracted texts.  My first
point is, having access to a full-blown programming language for doing
task-specific work within an editor is *wonderful*; my second point is,
the lisp family of languages are very useful and flexible tools for,
among other things, exploratory programming.

 --
Bill Wood

Re: text editors

[Erik Christiansen]

On 27.03.19 11:07, mick crane wrote:
> On 2019-03-26 19:27, Wayne Sallee wrote:
> > I use vim.
> > 
> > Log in as user that will use vim, and run the following command:
> > 
> > cat > .vimrc << "EOF"
> > set nosi noai
> > set number
> > 
> I have line numbers as the default but copy/paste with the mouse also copies
> the numbers so I have to turn it on and off.

True, so it's handy to be able to toggle them on and off on a single
keystroke. I use F1, as it is easy to find. This vimscript in .vimrc
then implements the switch, in my case for _relative_ line numbers, as
they allow e.g. y7+ to copy current line plus the lines down to a chosen
point, without having to count the lines. That's a greater productivity
improver than just knowing you're on line 27423:

" Toggle relative line numbering.
function! NList_toggle()
if &rnu == 1
 set nornu" For absolute, elide the 'r'.
  else
 set rnu  " For absolute, elide the 'r'.
  endif
endfun

To avoid stairstepped insert when pasting that here from the clipboard,
I have F12 mapped to:

set pastetoggle= "  is easier. (See "Paste")

I tend to forget that I also have the alternative:

" Paste
" Paste without needing pastetoggle to avoid staircase text, due to ai always 
set.
" Works with "+y in another vim instance. Also avoids wrapping.
nnoremap  "+p
inoremap  ^["+p^Mi
nnoremap  "+y

(The ^[ is entered as control-v Esc, and ^M as control-v Enter, but you
knew that.)

 is Alt-p. Your choice of invoking key may differ.

So, yep, Vim does allow two-key chords, and the distinction from Emacs
reduces a little when you do that. Vimscript may look a little C-like in
places, but that can't be helped. (Awk is also significantly C-like.
Perl is much more successful at voiding the benefit of common language
know-how.)

Erik