date:20181026

Hi.

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:17:31AM +, Long Wind wrote:
> Thank Reco!

You're welcome.


> intel get higher mark than amd

That's expected. You need raw CPU power - you buy Intel.


> but could you explain a little about your command and bogomips?
> i can't find manual about such info.

I feel uneasy for doing this, but - [1].

Reco

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BogoMips

Re: which program can test cpu speed

2018-10-26 Thread Jörg-Volker Peetz

There is a "perf" package complementing the linux kernel package, for example if
the kernel package is linux-image-4.17.0-3-amd64 the perf package is
linux-perf-4.17. Also, take a look at this web page
http://www.brendangregg.com/FlameGraphs/cpuflamegraphs.html about profiling by
Brendan Gregg.

Regards,
Jörg.

Re: which program can test cpu speed

2018-10-26 Thread arne

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:26:13 +0300
Reco  wrote:

>   Hi.
> 
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:17:31AM +, Long Wind wrote:
> > Thank Reco!  
> 
> You're welcome.
> 
> 
> > intel get higher mark than amd  
> 
> That's expected. You need raw CPU power - you buy Intel.
> 

You need power buy AMD threadripper: 64 threads

Re: which program can test cpu speed

Hi.

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:42:53AM +0200, arne wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:26:13 +0300
> Reco  wrote:
> 
> > Hi.
> > 
> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:17:31AM +, Long Wind wrote:
> > > Thank Reco!  
> > 
> > You're welcome.
> > 
> > 
> > > intel get higher mark than amd  
> > 
> > That's expected. You need raw CPU power - you buy Intel.
> > 
> 
> You need power buy AMD threadripper: 64 threads

If I ever need many threads, I'll buy Xeon.
If I ever need enormous amount of threads, I'll buy UltraSPARC.
If I ever need good single CPU - there's IBM's Power for that.
If I need low TDP - there are ARM and MIPS.

AMD just does not fit anywhere.

Reco

Re: which program can test cpu speed

2018-10-26 Thread arne

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:54:26 +0300
Reco  wrote:

>   Hi.
> 
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:42:53AM +0200, arne wrote:
> > On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 11:26:13 +0300
> > Reco  wrote:
> >   
> > >   Hi.
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:17:31AM +, Long Wind wrote:  
> > > > Thank Reco!
> > > 
> > > You're welcome.
> > > 
> > >   
> > > > intel get higher mark than amd
> > > 
> > > That's expected. You need raw CPU power - you buy Intel.
> > >   
> > 
> > You need power buy AMD threadripper: 64 threads  
> 
> If I ever need many threads, I'll buy Xeon.

You can compare:

https://img.purch.com/r/711x457/aHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmJlc3RvZm1pY3JvLmNvbS9ILzAvNzkxMTcyL29yaWdpbmFsL2ltYWdlMDA0LnBuZw==

> If I ever need enormous amount of threads, I'll buy UltraSPARC.
> If I ever need good single CPU - there's IBM's Power for that.
> If I need low TDP - there are ARM and MIPS.
> 
> AMD just does not fit anywhere.
> 
> Reco
>

Re: Heck, why did the server freeze?

2018-10-26 Thread Alessandro Vesely

On Thu 25/Oct/2018 20:30:27 +0200 Brian wrote:
> On Thu 25 Oct 2018 at 19:53:26 +0200, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> early this morning a network card burned out.  A few hours later, the server
>> was not responding on any network address, nor on the system console.  I had 
>> to
>> power it down.
>> 
>> Upon rebooting, network errors were detected an I arranged the server to work
>> with the available hardware.  The last line logged was an incoming email 
>> from a
>> spammer in Brazil.  It shouldn't have triggered any severe damage.  I found 
>> no
>> breakdown hint in the logs.
>> 
>> My theory is that the system didn't realize that the card was broken, didn't
>> turn the interface down, and kept storing outgoing stuff until it blew off.  
>> Is
>> that reasonable or should I be more paranoid?
> 
> You have given an exact diagnosis of your problem - the network
> card failed. What's your problem? Replace it instead of agonising
> and theorising.

The problem is that the server froze.  I don't think that's what it is supposed
to do when a card fails.

During the reboot, I had a plethora of RTNETLINK answers: Network is down /
Network is unreachable / File exists.  It took me several RJ45 swaps to know
which network and which side of the link were the culprit.

Contrast that with log lines about anything else, from non-redundant power
supplies to failed GPG signatures.  In part, the missing precise diagnosis must
be a shortcoming on part of the card vendor.  However, how come the kernel
didn't realize that the link had to go down, log something, and just fail any
subsequent call on that interface, instead of freezing?  Or did it freeze for
an unrelated reason?

Best
Ale
-- 

P.S. New card expected on Monday.

Re: Heck, why did the server freeze?

Hi.

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 11:23:39AM +0200, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
> On Thu 25/Oct/2018 20:30:27 +0200 Brian wrote:
> > On Thu 25 Oct 2018 at 19:53:26 +0200, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
> > 
> >> Hi all,
> >> early this morning a network card burned out.  A few hours later, the 
> >> server
> >> was not responding on any network address, nor on the system console.  I 
> >> had to
> >> power it down.
> >> 
> >> Upon rebooting, network errors were detected an I arranged the server to 
> >> work
> >> with the available hardware.  The last line logged was an incoming email 
> >> from a
> >> spammer in Brazil.  It shouldn't have triggered any severe damage.  I 
> >> found no
> >> breakdown hint in the logs.
> >> 
> >> My theory is that the system didn't realize that the card was broken, 
> >> didn't
> >> turn the interface down, and kept storing outgoing stuff until it blew 
> >> off.  Is
> >> that reasonable or should I be more paranoid?
> > 
> > You have given an exact diagnosis of your problem - the network
> > card failed. What's your problem? Replace it instead of agonising
> > and theorising.
> 
> The problem is that the server froze.  I don't think that's what it is 
> supposed
> to do when a card fails.

It's my impression too.

> Contrast that with log lines about anything else, from non-redundant power
> supplies to failed GPG signatures.  In part, the missing precise diagnosis 
> must
> be a shortcoming on part of the card vendor.  However, how come the kernel
> didn't realize that the link had to go down, log something, and just fail any
> subsequent call on that interface, instead of freezing?  Or did it freeze for
> an unrelated reason?

I believe that it's impossible to answer this question. It's highly
likely that it was kernel panic. Whenever it was related to failed NIC,
or no - it's impossible to tell since there's no kernel backtrace.
I'd install, say, kdump-tools for the future incidents like this.

Reco

Re: ntp problem in broadcastclients

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 05:36:21PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> I put the router back on pool.ntp.org, but had to reboot it to take effect.
> 
> Now this machine shows for ntpq -p:
>  remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
> ==
> +159.203.158.197 45.33.103.94 3 u   59   643   19.551   -1.356  61.116
> *tick.mdacore.ne 130.207.244.240  2 u   61   643   30.488   -2.042   3.042
> -ntp3.junkemailf 216.218.254.202  2 u   59   643   82.196   -7.491   2.306
> +208.76.53.137   216.218.254.202  2 u   64   643   40.852   -2.476   0.889
>  192.168.71.255  .BCST.  16 u-   6400.0000.000   0.000
> 
> But should the .BCST. be a 16 ?? Or is that just the nature of the beast?

According to , BCST means "The
association belongs to a broadcast server."  And unfortunately, as I
mentioned before, I've never used NTP in broadcast mode.  So at this
point you're officially beyond my knowledge level.

Re: which program can test cpu speed

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 03:05:36AM +, Long Wind wrote:
> any package that test cpu/system speed and report benchmark?
> i have 2 old pc: intel pentium D 2.8 G and amd athlon 64 3800i bought them 
> from 2nd hand dealers for about same priceso i think they're about same speed

The performance of a given system depends on the task.  Some systems
are better at single-threaded integer calculations, some have more
cores so they're better in a multitasking environment, some have better
floating point optimizations, some have more cache and therefore perform
better when code jumps all over the place, etc.

You need to benchmark the systems for whatever task YOU actually care
about.  Whatever program you're using that makes you think "gosh, I
really wish this system could be faster" -- that's the one you use to
benchmark.  It could be compiling the Linux kernel, or transcoding
video and audio, or calculating prime factors of large numbers, or
first-person shooter video games, or whatever it is that you do.

Re: ntp problem in broadcastclients

2018-10-26 Thread Curt

On 2018-10-25, Gene Heskett  wrote:

> Now this machine shows for ntpq -p:
>  remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay   offset  jitter
>==
> +159.203.158.197 45.33.103.94 3 u   59   643   19.551   -1.356  61.116
> *tick.mdacore.ne 130.207.244.240  2 u   61   643   30.488   -2.042   3.042
> -ntp3.junkemailf 216.218.254.202  2 u   59   643   82.196   -7.491   2.306
> +208.76.53.137   216.218.254.202  2 u   64   643   40.852   -2.476   0.889
>  192.168.71.255  .BCST.  16 u-   6400.0000.000   0.000
>
> But should the .BCST. be a 16 ?? Or is that just the nature of the beast?
>>

>From what I can grok, yes, the .BCST line is normal because that is the
broadcast address for the sub-net to which you are broadcasting, and
ntpd cannot sync to itself (default stratum 16). 

I can't seem to find an example of a ntpq -p output that has a .BCST
address with a stratum other than 16 (maybe I'm not looking hard
enough) which leads me to believe it's okey-dokey.

Famous last words: I don't really know anything about this and so could be
partially, if not all, wet.


-- 
"Now she understood that Anna could not have been in lilac, and that her charm
was just that she always stood out against her attire, that her dress could
never be noticeable on her." Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina

Re: ntp problem in broadcastclients

On Friday 26 October 2018 08:26:47 Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 05:36:21PM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > I put the router back on pool.ntp.org, but had to reboot it to take
> > effect.
> >
> > Now this machine shows for ntpq -p:
> >  remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay  
> > offset  jitter
> > 
> >== +159.203.158.197 45.33.103.94 3 u   59   643  
> > 19.551   -1.356  61.116 *tick.mdacore.ne 130.207.244.240  2 u   61  
> > 643   30.488   -2.042   3.042 -ntp3.junkemailf 216.218.254.202 
> > 2 u   59   643   82.196   -7.491   2.306 +208.76.53.137  
> > 216.218.254.202  2 u   64   643   40.852   -2.476   0.889
> > 192.168.71.255  .BCST.  16 u-   6400.000   
> > 0.000   0.000
> >
> > But should the .BCST. be a 16 ?? Or is that just the nature of the
> > beast?
>
> According to , BCST means "The
> association belongs to a broadcast server."  And unfortunately, as I
> mentioned before, I've never used NTP in broadcast mode.  So at this
> point you're officially beyond my knowledge level.

Well, with all the clients now reporting this machine as a stratum 3 and 
fractions of a millisecond for an ntpq -p, and this machine reporting 5 
servers and  one BCST at a st=16, and it goes out on the net and checks 
all servers before ntpq -p is completed, take 5 or 6 seconds to do that, 
I'd have to say its working. dd-wrt hasn't an ntpq -p output, so I've 
left it to its own devices, listing its server as pool.ntp.org. It 
doesn't seem to have a switch to turn on .BCST.  That does seem odd as 
ISTR seeing it in an older version.

So I think I've done my part to reduce the load on the debian stratum 2 
servers pool. TANSTAAFL.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page

Re: qemu redirecting guest output in terminal

2018-10-26 Thread john doe

On 10/26/2018 9:16 AM, john doe wrote:
> On 10/25/2018 8:55 PM, Reco wrote:
>>  Hi.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 05:20:46PM +0200, john doe wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to install Debian, it works if I do use the below command:
>>>
>>> qemu -hda debian.img -cdrom debian-9.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso -boot d -m 1024
>>>
>>> I'd like to redirect the output of the guest (Debian) to the terminal so
>>> I have added '-nographic':
>>>
>>> qemu -hda debian.img -cdrom debian-9.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso -boot d -m
>>> 1024 -nographic
>>>
>>> The guest is running but I don't see any Debian output in the terminal.
>>>
>>> What argument(s) should I use to redirect the output of the guest in the
>>> terminal?
>>>
>>> I appriciate any input.
>>
>> That's tricky one.
>> -nographic means you discard VGA/keyboard/mouse emulation and the only
>> means of user interaction is RS232 emulation.
>>
>> And that means that now you have three problems:
>>
>> 1) All x86 bootloaders in Debian are configured for VGA/keyboard
>> input/output.
>> That includes GRUB2 in a conventional install, and syslinux that's used
>> in installer.
>>
>> 2) Linux kernel built for x86 use VGA for output by default.
>> RS232 means appending something like 'console=ttyS0,115200n8' to
>> kernel's commandline.
>>
>> 3) Systemd respects console= from kernel's commandline, but I cannot say
>> the same for other init systems.
>>
>>
>> But, you're using QEMU and that means you're in luck.
>> Unpack netinst image, extract vmlinux and initrd.gz from it. You won't
>> need anything else from it anyway.
>>
>> Run QEMU this way:
>>
>> qemu -hda debian.img -m 1024 -nographic \
>>  -kernel vmlinux -append 'console=ttyS0,115200n8' \
>>  -initrd initrd.gz
>>
>> Replace -kernel, -initrd and -append with '-boot c' after the
>> installation.
>> Also consider using '-M q35' instead of old '-M pc' you're using now.
>>
> 
> Thanks to the help of "Dejan Jocic " and to this
> answer I manage to get the output of the guest redirected in the
> terminal by using the following command:
> 
> PS C:\qemu> clear; & 'C:\Program Files\qemu\qemu-system-x86_64.exe' -hda
> debian.img -cdrom debian-9.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso -boot d -m 1024
> -nographic -kernel vmlinuz -append 'console=ttyS0,115200n8
> DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text priority=low' -initrd initrd.gz
> 
> As you can see it is done on Windows and when attempting to install
> Debian the output is a bit mest up:
> 
> Choose the next step in the install process:
>   1: Choose language [*],
>   2: Access software for a blind person using a braille display,
>   3: Configure the keyboard,
>   4: Detect and mount CD-ROM,
>   5: Load installer components from CD,
>   6: Change debconf priority,
>   7: Check the CD-ROM(s) integrity,
>   8: Save debug logs,
>   9: Execute a shell,
>  10: Abort the installation,
> Prompt: '?' for help, default=1> 1
> 
> Select a language
> -
> 
> Choose the language to be used for the installation process. The selected
> language will also be the default language for the installed system.
> Language:
> ←[22A←[M←[22BPrompt: '?' for help, default=2> ←
> 
> Looks like it is character encoding related.
> 
> I understand that it is Windows/powershell but if anyone has a hint,
> that would be awesome! :)
> 
> Note that this e-mail is folded by my mailer.
> 

Using Cygwin the output is not mest up but during the installation I'm
stuck at:

"No disk drive was detected. If you know the name of the driver needed
by your
disk drive, you can select it from the list.
Driver needed for your disk drive:
  1: continue with no disk drive [*], 46: loop,"

Should I select the default option (1) or what should I do?

Thanks for any help.

-- 
John Doe

Re: ntp problem in broadcastclients

On Friday 26 October 2018 09:01:50 Curt wrote:

> On 2018-10-25, Gene Heskett  wrote:
> > Now this machine shows for ntpq -p:
> >  remote   refid  st t when poll reach   delay  
> > offset  jitter
> > 
> >== +159.203.158.197 45.33.103.94 3 u   59   643  
> > 19.551   -1.356  61.116 *tick.mdacore.ne 130.207.244.240  2 u   61  
> > 643   30.488   -2.042   3.042 -ntp3.junkemailf 216.218.254.202 
> > 2 u   59   643   82.196   -7.491   2.306 +208.76.53.137  
> > 216.218.254.202  2 u   64   643   40.852   -2.476   0.889
> > 192.168.71.255  .BCST.  16 u-   6400.000   
> > 0.000   0.000
> >
> > But should the .BCST. be a 16 ?? Or is that just the nature of the
> > beast?
>
> From what I can grok, yes, the .BCST line is normal because that is
> the broadcast address for the sub-net to which you are broadcasting,
> and ntpd cannot sync to itself (default stratum 16).
>
> I can't seem to find an example of a ntpq -p output that has a .BCST
> address with a stratum other than 16 (maybe I'm not looking hard
> enough) which leads me to believe it's okey-dokey.
>
> Famous last words: 

We ought to define a TLA for that, I propose FLW. :)

> I don't really know anything about this and so 
> could be partially, if not all, wet.

Me too but I've got a dry towel. :-)

It does seem to be working, everything here is now on, and apparently 
staying on, the same second, and I've reduced the load on the stratum 2 
servers by 5 or 6 machines.

As I'm fond of saying TANSTAAFL.  If we all, with multiple machine sites, 
did this it would make a measureable difference in bandwidth used. But I 
haven't a clue if windows can duplicate this. I don't allow its use 
here.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page

Re: ntp problem in broadcastclients

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:29:38AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> and it goes out on the net and checks 
> all servers before ntpq -p is completed, take 5 or 6 seconds to do that, 

That's DNS resolution.  It's looking up the IP addresses so it can
report names to you.  If you want to skip that, you can use "ntpq -p -n".
That one should be very fast.

Re: versioning file system

2018-10-26 Thread Dan Ritter

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 05:32:52PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:
> 
> I did Fortran programming on VAX/VMS machines back in the 1980's.  Its
> file versioning feature was a godsend [1][2].  I want that on my Debian
> machines.
> 
> 2018-10-25 17:28:29 dpchrist@vstretch ~
> $ apt-cache search versioning file system
> copyfs - Versioning filesystem for FUSE
> davfs2 - mount a WebDAV resource as a regular file system
> dvcs-autosync - Automatically synchronize distributed version control
> repositories
> fsvs - Full system versioning with metadata support
> fusedav - filesystem to mount WebDAV shares
> incron - cron-like daemon which handles filesystem events
> python-migrate - Database schema migration for SQLAlchemy - Python 2.7
> python-migrate-doc - Database schema migration for SQLAlchemy - doc
> python3-migrate - Database schema migration for SQLAlchemy - Python 3.x
> 
> 
> Has anybody tried copyfs, fsvs, or anything else with file versioning?

The problem with fsvs and copyfs and other FUSE-based things is
that they tend to be slow, so slow that you don't want to put
major chunks of your system in them.

On the other hand, it's usually easy to make whatever editor you
habitually use hook into a versioning system for every save:

emacs git-auto-commit-mode
vim  vim-auto-commit or fugitive
atom Git-Plus

and it turns out that Microsoft open-sourced Visual Studio Code
and it has git support built-in.

On the other hand, if you want a system that is fast and can
handle everything, not just what you are working on right now, 
you could

- install rsnapshot and have it do automatic periodic backups,
  like once an hour

- use ZFS and tell it automatically make snapshots, maybe even
  once an hour (syncoid/sanoid are your friends here).

-dsr-

Re: which program can test cpu speed


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:57:29AM +0300, Reco wrote:

Why would you need a *program* to do that then you have Linux kernel
already?

grep bogomips /proc/cpuinfo


Anyone reading that advice: ignore it. You cannot use bogomips to 
meaningfully compare processors.


Mike Stone

Re: which program can test cpu speed

2018-10-26 Thread mick crane


On 2018-10-26 06:57, Reco wrote:

Hi.

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 03:05:36AM +, Long Wind wrote:

any package that test cpu/system speed and report benchmark?
i have 2 old pc: intel pentium D 2.8 G and amd athlon 64 3800i bought 
them from 2nd hand dealers for about same priceso i think they're 
about same speed


Why would you need a *program* to do that then you have Linux kernel
already?

grep bogomips /proc/cpuinfo

Reco


Just saying I really appreciate the responses you are giving.
Not things that particularly trouble me at present but learning stuff 
with each one.


thanks

mick



--
Key ID4BFEBB31

Re: ntp problem in broadcastclients


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:44:47AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

As I'm fond of saying TANSTAAFL.  If we all, with multiple machine sites,
did this it would make a measureable difference in bandwidth used


If people want to set up local ntp servers, great. But just configure 
the clients with a server directive in ntp.conf and skip the broadcast 
configuration. It was something that seemed like a great idea before 
switched networks and multigigahertz machines, now it's just best 
avoided because a more typical configuration will work better anyway.


Mike Stone

Re: which program can test cpu speed

Hi.

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:59:16AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:57:29AM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > Why would you need a *program* to do that then you have Linux kernel
> > already?
> > 
> > grep bogomips /proc/cpuinfo
> 
> Anyone reading that advice: ignore it. You cannot use bogomips to 
> meaningfully compare processors.

The reason being?
The kernel uses it just fine for the clock calibration.

Reco

Re: which program can test cpu speed

Hi.

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 03:21:41PM +0100, mick crane wrote:
> On 2018-10-26 06:57, Reco wrote:
> > Hi.
> > 
> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 03:05:36AM +, Long Wind wrote:
> > > any package that test cpu/system speed and report benchmark?
> > > i have 2 old pc: intel pentium D 2.8 G and amd athlon 64 3800i bought 
> > > them from 2nd hand dealers for about same priceso i think
> > > they're about same speed
> > 
> > Why would you need a *program* to do that then you have Linux kernel
> > already?
> > 
> > grep bogomips /proc/cpuinfo
> > 
> > Reco
> 
> Just saying I really appreciate the responses you are giving.
> Not things that particularly trouble me at present but learning stuff with 
> each one.

I always appreciate kind words, good sir. Thank you.

Reco

Re: ntp problem in broadcastclients

On Friday 26 October 2018 09:53:39 Greg Wooledge wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:29:38AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:
> > and it goes out on the net and checks
> > all servers before ntpq -p is completed, take 5 or 6 seconds to do
> > that,
>
> That's DNS resolution.  It's looking up the IP addresses so it can
> report names to you.  If you want to skip that, you can use "ntpq -p
> -n". That one should be very fast.

And is instant, thanks Greg.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page

Online copies of textinfo content available?

2018-10-26 Thread Richard Owlett


Many man pages end with:

The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If the info > 
and XYZ programs are properly installed at your site, the command

info XYZ

should give you access to the complete manual.


I have problems with that.
1. I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find out whether or
   not the package might be useful.
2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser acceptable format
   {plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more functional.

Re: qemu redirecting guest output in terminal

Hi.

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 03:34:55PM +0200, john doe wrote:
> >> Run QEMU this way:
> >>
> >> qemu -hda debian.img -m 1024 -nographic \
> >>-kernel vmlinux -append 'console=ttyS0,115200n8' \
> >>-initrd initrd.gz
> >>
> >> Replace -kernel, -initrd and -append with '-boot c' after the
> >> installation.
> >> Also consider using '-M q35' instead of old '-M pc' you're using now.
> >>
> > 
> > Thanks to the help of "Dejan Jocic " and to this
> > answer I manage to get the output of the guest redirected in the
> > terminal by using the following command:
> > 
> > PS C:\qemu> clear; & 'C:\Program Files\qemu\qemu-system-x86_64.exe' -hda
> > debian.img -cdrom debian-9.5.0-amd64-netinst.iso -boot d -m 1024
> > -nographic -kernel vmlinuz -append 'console=ttyS0,115200n8
> > DEBIAN_FRONTEND=text priority=low' -initrd initrd.gz
> > 
> > As you can see it is done on Windows and when attempting to install
> > Debian the output is a bit mest up:
> > 
> > Choose the next step in the install process:
> >   1: Choose language [*],
> >   2: Access software for a blind person using a braille display,
> >   3: Configure the keyboard,
> >   4: Detect and mount CD-ROM,
> >   5: Load installer components from CD,
> >   6: Change debconf priority,
> >   7: Check the CD-ROM(s) integrity,
> >   8: Save debug logs,
> >   9: Execute a shell,
> >  10: Abort the installation,
> > Prompt: '?' for help, default=1> 1
> > 
> > Select a language
> > -
> > 
> > Choose the language to be used for the installation process. The selected
> > language will also be the default language for the installed system.
> > Language:
> > ←[22A←[M←[22BPrompt: '?' for help, default=2> ←
> > 
> > Looks like it is character encoding related.
> > 
> > I understand that it is Windows/powershell but if anyone has a hint,
> > that would be awesome! :)

Nah, we don't do Windows here. Way too many quirks for my personal
taste.
What you can try is to replace stdio with telnet:

qemu -hda debian.img -m 1024 \
-chardev socket,id=tty0,port=,server,telnet \
-serial chardev:tty0 -nographic \
-kernel vmlinux -append 'console=ttyS0,115200n8' \
-initrd initrd.gz

Port  is just an example, obviously.
And you'll need telnet, but since you're using Cygwin you should got it
covered.

> > Note that this e-mail is folded by my mailer.

Meaning that I use 'format=flowed'? It's recommended to wrap lines at 72
characters here anyway.


> Using Cygwin the output is not mest up but during the installation I'm
> stuck at:
> 
> "No disk drive was detected. If you know the name of the driver needed
> by your
> disk drive, you can select it from the list.
> Driver needed for your disk drive:
>   1: continue with no disk drive [*], 46: loop,"
> 
> Should I select the default option (1) or what should I do?

No, that means that whatever you did with Cygwin denied QEMU read-write
access to a file that represents a disk drive. An installation is
impossible.

Reco

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Fri 26 Oct 2018 at 09:41:54 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> Many man pages end with:
> > The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If the 
> > info > and XYZ programs are properly installed at your site, the command
> > 
> > info XYZ
> > 
> > should give you access to the complete manual.
> 
> I have problems with that.
> 1. I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find out whether or
>not the package might be useful.
> 2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser acceptable format
>{plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more functional.

apt install pinfo

-- 
Brian.

Re: which program can test cpu speed

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 05:34:26PM +0300, Reco wrote:

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:59:16AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:57:29AM +0300, Reco wrote:
> Why would you need a *program* to do that then you have Linux kernel
> already?
>
> grep bogomips /proc/cpuinfo

Anyone reading that advice: ignore it. You cannot use bogomips to meaningfully 
compare processors.

The reason being?

As it says in the link you posted, "It is not usable for performance 
comparisons among different CPUs".

The kernel uses it just fine for the clock calibration.

I suppose if you want to use the system exclusively for busy loops, you 
can use the bogomips number to see which cpu will wait the fastest and 
choose based on that.

FWIW, even the kernel doesn't use naive busy loops anymore on newer 
hardware. (TSC or MWAIT is used, depending on what the processor 
supports.)

Mike Stone

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:41:54AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

Many man pages end with:

The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If the info > 
and XYZ programs are properly installed at your site, the command

   info XYZ

should give you access to the complete manual.


I have problems with that.
1. I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find out whether or
  not the package might be useful.
2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser acceptable format
  {plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more functional.


see
https://www.gnu.org/software/ed/manual/ed_manual.html

The coreutils manpages have switched to saying something like
  Full documentation at: 
  or available locally via: info '(coreutils) ls invocation'

You could file a wishlist for other projects to do something similar. 
I think most (all?) of the GNU docs are available as above, and I don't 
know many projects that use info and aren't GNU.


Mike Stone

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

2018-10-26 Thread David Wright

On Fri 26 Oct 2018 at 09:41:54 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
> Many man pages end with:
> > The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If the 
> > info > and XYZ programs are properly installed at your site, the command
> > 
> > info XYZ
> > 
> > should give you access to the complete manual.
> 
> I have problems with that.
> 1. I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find out whether or
>not the package might be useful.

Web searches can be quite useful!

> 2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser acceptable format
>{plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more functional.

https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/04/msg00616.html
has dropped out of your database perhaps.

Cheers,
David.

Online copies of textinfo content available?

2018-10-26 Thread Richard Owlett


*Are online copies of textinfo content available?*

Many man pages end with:

The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If the info > 
and XYZ programs are properly installed at your site, the command

info XYZ

should give you access to the complete manual.


I have problems with that.
1. *I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find out*
   *whether or not the package _might_ be useful.*
2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser acceptable format
   {plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more functional.


I posted this question to debian-user@lists.debian.org .
The replies totally ignored my primary question and reason I asked
[emphasized in this copy].

Side question:
Could I have made any clearer what information I was looking for?
TIA

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Fri 26 Oct 2018 at 10:46:12 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

> *Are online copies of textinfo content available?*

https://www.gnu.org/manual/manual.en.html

-- 
Brian.

Re: Heck, why did the server freeze?

2018-10-26 Thread Joe

On Fri, 26 Oct 2018 12:27:36 +0300
Reco  wrote:

>   Hi.
> 

> > 
> > The problem is that the server froze.  I don't think that's what it
> > is supposed to do when a card fails.  
> 
> It's my impression too.
> 

A bad peripheral can cause almost any problem. If the bit of the card
connecting with the outside world fails, it probably won't affect the
rest of the computer. If a bit involving e.g. the PCI bus fails, it may
well stop other stuff from working, maybe the CPU itself. To be fair,
it's usually the outside bit that dies, often because of the fact that
it's connected to other equipment.

I had a dead PC a week ago. No PSU fan, even. Reseating the PATA
cable leading to the optical drives fixed it... and I've seen, at least
twice, a bad optical drive preventing start-up.

-- 
Joe

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 10:46:12AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

I posted this question to debian-user@lists.debian.org .
The replies totally ignored my primary question and reason I asked
[emphasized in this copy].


You seemingly ignored answers which addressed it.


Side question:
Could I have made any clearer what information I was looking for?
TIA


Full refunds granted if you don't think answers from the support staff 
meet your expected level of attention.

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Friday 26 October 2018 10:41:54 Richard Owlett wrote:

> Many man pages end with:
> > The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If
> > the info > and XYZ programs are properly installed at your site, the
> > command
> >
> > info XYZ
> >
> > should give you access to the complete manual.

But one never knows what the next keypress will do, so anyplace it 
says "info" sub it to be "pinfo" which shows you the same data, but has 
a sensible interface.

> I have problems with that.

Figures, its Richard  O. :)

> 1. I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find out whether
> or not the package might be useful.
> 2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser acceptable format
> {plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more functional.

Agreed, a good man page is the best. I've no clue why there seems to be 
an aversion to a man page that has to be scrolled to read it all. All of 
us have up/down arrows on our keyboards, and 99% have a mouse wheel, so 
there is no excuse that holds water to not put it all in the man 
page. "man bash" if you man page authors want to see what a real man 
page looks like.

-- 
Cheers, Gene Heskett
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Genes Web page

Re: which program can test cpu speed

2018-10-26 Thread Long Wind

Thank Greg!
is there any general-purpose testing utility? i remember in  early days some 
program for DOS can report benchmark, (maybe made by nordon?) .  and intel 486 
always seems faster than 386. 

On Friday, October 26, 2018 8:40 PM, Greg Wooledge  
wrote:

 On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 03:05:36AM +, Long Wind wrote:
> any package that test cpu/system speed and report benchmark?
> i have 2 old pc: intel pentium D 2.8 G and amd athlon 64 3800i bought them 
> from 2nd hand dealers for about same priceso i think they're about same speed

The performance of a given system depends on the task.  Some systems
are better at single-threaded integer calculations, some have more
cores so they're better in a multitasking environment, some have better
floating point optimizations, some have more cache and therefore perform
better when code jumps all over the place, etc.

You need to benchmark the systems for whatever task YOU actually care
about.  Whatever program you're using that makes you think "gosh, I
really wish this system could be faster" -- that's the one you use to
benchmark.  It could be compiling the Linux kernel, or transcoding
video and audio, or calculating prime factors of large numbers, or
first-person shooter video games, or whatever it is that you do.

Re: Heck, why did the server freeze?

2018-10-26 Thread Alessandro Vesely

On Fri 26/Oct/2018 11:27:36 +0200 Reco wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 11:23:39AM +0200, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
>> The problem is that the server froze.  I don't think that's what it is 
>> supposed
>> to do when a card fails.
> 
> It's my impression too.

In general, it is too difficult to know if a link is good, at least on the
local side.  I found nothing better than running pings by cron.


>> Contrast that with log lines about anything else, from non-redundant power
>> supplies to failed GPG signatures.  In part, the missing precise diagnosis 
>> must
>> be a shortcoming on part of the card vendor.  However, how come the kernel
>> didn't realize that the link had to go down, log something, and just fail any
>> subsequent call on that interface, instead of freezing?  Or did it freeze for
>> an unrelated reason?
> 
> I believe that it's impossible to answer this question. It's highly
> likely that it was kernel panic. Whenever it was related to failed NIC,
> or no - it's impossible to tell since there's no kernel backtrace.

Right.  I should have tried Ctrl-Alt-F1 or some of the SysRq hacks[*], but I
was too upset by services not responding...

[*] https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/sysrq.html


> I'd install, say, kdump-tools for the future incidents like this.

Just installed, thank you!  (I'll reboot when the new card arrives).

Best
Ale
--

Re: which program can test cpu speed

2018-10-26 Thread Pascal Hambourg


Le 26/10/2018 à 16:34, Reco a écrit :


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:59:16AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:57:29AM +0300, Reco wrote:


grep bogomips /proc/cpuinfo


Anyone reading that advice: ignore it. You cannot use bogomips to meaningfully 
compare processors.


The reason being?
The kernel uses it just fine for the clock calibration.


As far as I remember, the bogomips number has consistently been twice 
the current clock frequency on any x86 PCU I have ever run Linux on.
How can you measure and compare processor performance from the mere 
clock frequency ?

Re: which program can test cpu speed

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 05:19:58PM +, Long Wind wrote:

is there any general-purpose testing utility? i remember in early days some
program for DOS can report benchmark, (maybe made by nordon?) . and intel 486
always seems faster than 386.

Try something like
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/803/AMD_Athlon_64_X2_3800+_(Socket_AM2__35W__IAA)_vs_Intel_Pentium_D_820.html

(guessing on the cpus, you were a bit vague)

The performance of a given system depends on the task. Some systems
are better at single-threaded integer calculations, some have more
cores so they're better in a multitasking environment, some have better
floating point optimizations, some have more cache and therefore perform
better when code jumps all over the place, etc.

You need to benchmark the systems for whatever task YOU actually care
about. Whatever program you're using that makes you think "gosh, I
really wish this system could be faster" -- that's the one you use to
benchmark. It could be compiling the Linux kernel, or transcoding
video and audio, or calculating prime factors of large numbers, or
first-person shooter video games, or whatever it is that you do.

The above was good advice. There's no such thing as "a general
benchmark"; there are benchmarks to test integer performance,
benchmarks to test floating point performance, benchmarks to test
graphics, benchmarks to test storage, etc. If you don't have any
specific task that you want to test, then suffice it to say that both
systems are equally slow by modern standards. I'd expect that the AMD
CPU is a bit better/has more functionality, but you probably won't be
able to tell the difference. The graphics on a 10 year old system are
likely to be a bigger issue than the CPU. You'd probably get
dramatically better results by replacing whatever the hard drive is
with an SSD rather than by agonizing over the CPU selection.

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Friday, October 26, 2018 01:20:36 PM Gene Heskett wrote:
> Agreed, a good man page is the best. I've no clue why there seems to be
> an aversion to a man page that has to be scrolled to read it all. All of
> us have up/down arrows on our keyboards, and 99% have a mouse wheel, so
> there is no excuse that holds water to not put it all in the man
> page. "man bash" if you man page authors want to see what a real man
> page looks like.

Just to chime in, my problem with the bash man page is knowing whether a given 
command is a bash built-in or external command -- if built-in, I'll find 
information within the man page.

I usually first look for a standalone man page, but if I don't find it, it 
could 
be either because it is a bash built-in or because there is no manpage.

Re: which program can test cpu speed

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 07:51:16PM +0200, Pascal Hambourg wrote:
> Le 26/10/2018 à 16:34, Reco a écrit :
> > 
> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:59:16AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:57:29AM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > grep bogomips /proc/cpuinfo
> > > 
> > > Anyone reading that advice: ignore it. You cannot use bogomips to 
> > > meaningfully compare processors.
> > 
> > The reason being?
> > The kernel uses it just fine for the clock calibration.
> 
> As far as I remember, the bogomips number has consistently been twice the 
> current clock frequency on any x86 PCU I have ever run Linux on.

Either your math is off, or they've changed it.

$ lscpu | egrep '(Vendor|MHz|MIPS)' # This PC
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU MHz:   1599.975
CPU max MHz:   3800.
CPU min MHz:   1600.
BogoMIPS:  6800.59

$ lscpu | egrep '(Vendor|MHz|MIPS)' # Certain VPS
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU MHz:   2099.996
BogoMIPS:  4199.99

And,

$ lscpu | egrep '(Vendor|MHz|MIPS)' # Xeon X5675
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU MHz:   1600.000
BogoMIPS:  6117.70

> How can you measure and compare processor performance from the mere clock 
> frequency ?

That's I agree with.

REco

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Fri 26 Oct 2018 at 13:20:36 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote:

> On Friday 26 October 2018 10:41:54 Richard Owlett wrote:
> 
> > Many man pages end with:
> > > The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo manual. If
> > > the info > and XYZ programs are properly installed at your site, the
> > > command
> > >
> > > info XYZ
> > >
> > > should give you access to the complete manual.
> 
> But one never knows what the next keypress will do, so anyplace it 
> says "info" sub it to be "pinfo" which shows you the same data, but has 
> a sensible interface.
> 
> > I have problems with that.
> 
> Figures, its Richard  O. :)
> 
> > 1. I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find out whether
> > or not the package might be useful.
> > 2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser acceptable format
> > {plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more functional.
> 
> Agreed, a good man page is the best. I've no clue why there seems to be 
> an aversion to a man page that has to be scrolled to read it all. All of 
> us have up/down arrows on our keyboards, and 99% have a mouse wheel, so 
> there is no excuse that holds water to not put it all in the man 
> page. "man bash" if you man page authors want to see what a real man 
> page looks like.

An excellent man page. Intended for masochists and those who have all
the time in the world to read and absorb it. :)

-- 
Brian.

Re: Heck, why did the server freeze?

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 07:38:56PM +0200, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
> On Fri 26/Oct/2018 11:27:36 +0200 Reco wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 11:23:39AM +0200, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
> >> The problem is that the server froze.  I don't think that's what it is 
> >> supposed
> >> to do when a card fails.
> > 
> > It's my impression too.
> 
> In general, it is too difficult to know if a link is good, at least on the
> local side.  I found nothing better than running pings by cron.

lldpd, there's no substitutes for that in a single L2 segment.
Taking WAN into account, pings seem the most reasonable way.

Reco

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 02:12:29PM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> Just to chime in, my problem with the bash man page is knowing whether a 
> given 
> command is a bash built-in or external command -- if built-in, I'll find 
> information within the man page.
> 
> I usually first look for a standalone man page, but if I don't find it, it 
> could 
> be either because it is a bash built-in or because there is no manpage.  

Use the "type" command to see.

wooledg:~$ type cd
cd is a shell builtin
wooledg:~$ type ls
ls is hashed (/bin/ls)

Re: which program can test cpu speed


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 02:02:06PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 05:19:58PM +, Long Wind wrote:

is there any general-purpose testing utility? i remember in  early days some
program for DOS can report benchmark, (maybe made by nordon?) .  and intel 486
always seems faster than 386.


Try something like 
http://www.cpu-world.com/Compare/803/AMD_Athlon_64_X2_3800+_(Socket_AM2__35W__IAA)_vs_Intel_Pentium_D_820.html
(guessing on the cpus, you were a bit vague)


Another one is 
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/AMD-Athlon-64-X2-Dual-Core-3800+-vs-Intel-Pentium-D-915/77vs1126


If you really want to run something, apt-get install lmbench. You can 
also take a look at http://linux-bench.com/

Re: which program can test cpu speed

2018-10-26 Thread David Wright

On Fri 26 Oct 2018 at 11:04:48 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 05:34:26PM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:59:16AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > > On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 08:57:29AM +0300, Reco wrote:
> > > > Why would you need a *program* to do that then you have Linux kernel
> > > > already?
> > > >
> > > > grep bogomips /proc/cpuinfo
> > > 
> > > Anyone reading that advice: ignore it. You cannot use bogomips to 
> > > meaningfully compare processors.
> > 
> > The reason being?
> 
> As it says in the link you posted, "It is not usable for performance
> comparisons among different CPUs".
> 
> > The kernel uses it just fine for the clock calibration.
> 
> I suppose if you want to use the system exclusively for busy loops,
> you can use the bogomips number to see which cpu will wait the fastest
> and choose based on that.
> 
> FWIW, even the kernel doesn't use naive busy loops anymore on newer
> hardware. (TSC or MWAIT is used, depending on what the processor
> supports.)

I've programmed a "busy loop" in the past and found that linux
bogomips tracked the loop speed quite closely on a variety of machines
from 486DX to 650MHz Pentium III (Coppermine). Nothing multiprocessor.

When I say busy loop, I mean a loop like
   FOR J=1 TO T
 X=X+1
   NEXT J
where X is floating point and the language is an HP Basic clone on MSDOS.

Cheers,
David.

Re: which program can test cpu speed


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 01:47:19PM -0500, David Wright wrote:

On Fri 26 Oct 2018 at 11:04:48 (-0400), Michael Stone wrote:

FWIW, even the kernel doesn't use naive busy loops anymore on newer
hardware. (TSC or MWAIT is used, depending on what the processor
supports.)


I've programmed a "busy loop" in the past and found that linux
bogomips tracked the loop speed quite closely on a variety of machines
from 486DX to 650MHz Pentium III (Coppermine). Nothing multiprocessor.

When I say busy loop, I mean a loop like
  FOR J=1 TO T
X=X+1
  NEXT J
where X is floating point and the language is an HP Basic clone on MSDOS.


That's basically all bogomips is:
"  test %0,%0  \n"
"  jz 3f   \n"
"  jmp 1f  \n"

".align 16 \n"
"1:jmp 2f  \n"

".align 16 \n"
"2:dec %0  \n"
"  jnz 2b  \n"
"3:dec %0  \n"
in a loop. (From 
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/arch/x86/lib/delay.c)
(Note that other architectures are completely different and don't use 
the x86 assembly--one more way the bogomips numbers are meaningless. :) )


For a given CPU family there's a de-facto multiplier (essentially, how 
many instructions can be issued per cycle) and then within that family 
bogomips is directly proportional to clock speed. None of that works 
particularly well in the face of CPUs that change speed, and it's not 
particularly efficient given current desires to minimizing power 
consumption. So, current CPUs use the TSC (which, again for current 
CPUs, increments at a constant rate regardless of reduced clock speeds 
in power saving modes) possibly in concert with MWAIT (which lets the 
CPU idle for a bit to save power). In those cases the loop frequency 
calibration is just determining how the TSC counter relates to wall 
clock time, and has nothing at all to do with CPU performance--even the 
minimal "how fast can the CPU run these 5 instructions" 'benchmark' of 
classic bogomips.

make check nested variables

2018-10-26 Thread mlnl

Hi,

when i compile something in a tmux or rxvt window, sometimes i get:

$ ./configure
checking for a BSD-compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c
checking whether build environment is sane... yes
checking for a thread-safe mkdir -p... /bin/mkdir -p
checking for gawk... gawk
checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes
checking whether make supports nested variables...

and than it hangs. Then i have to go in a terminal, where it works. My
question: Why does the check hangs and how can i avoid it?

-- 
mlnl

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Friday, October 26, 2018 02:22:32 PM Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 02:12:29PM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Just to chime in, my problem with the bash man page is knowing whether a
> > given command is a bash built-in or external command -- if built-in,
> > I'll find information within the man page.
> > 
> > I usually first look for a standalone man page, but if I don't find it,
> > it could be either because it is a bash built-in or because there is no
> > manpage.
> 
> Use the "type" command to see.
> 
> wooledg:~$ type cd
> cd is a shell builtin
> wooledg:~$ type ls
> ls is hashed (/bin/ls)

Ahh, wonderful -- thank you!

Re: versioning file system

2018-10-26 Thread Jonathan Dowland


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 10:33:57PM -0400, songbird wrote:

 what i really need to do is trust and use git
commits more but i have a block about some
things...  *sigh*


That's certainly the best way forward in your case.

--

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

Re: versioning file system

2018-10-26 Thread Jonathan Dowland


On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 05:32:52PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:

Has anybody tried copyfs, fsvs, or anything else with file versioning?


I haven't, but I would postulate that if they worked as well as you
might hope, we'd all already be using them.

--

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Jonathan Dowland
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://jmtd.net
⠈⠳⣄ Please do not CC me, I am subscribed to the list.

Re: versioning file system


On 10/25/18 7:33 PM, songbird wrote:

David Christensen wrote:
...

I did Fortran programming on VAX/VMS machines back in the 1980's.  Its
file versioning feature was a godsend [1][2].  I want that on my Debian


...

   what i really need to do is trust and use git
commits more but i have a block about some
things...  *sigh*


When programming, I tend to do check-in's when I make some kind of 
progress (ideally, the code builds and the test suite passes).



The trap is when I work for a while, make some progress, make a wrong 
turn, and then make a mess.  A versioning file system makes it easy to 
get back to "make some progress" and try a different turn.



The compromise is to do a "work in progress" check-in prior to risky turns.


David

Re: which program can test cpu speed


On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 09:16:47PM +0300, Reco wrote:

As far as I remember, the bogomips number has consistently been twice the 
current clock frequency on any x86 PCU I have ever run Linux on.



Either your math is off, or they've changed it.

$ lscpu | egrep '(Vendor|MHz|MIPS)' # This PC
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU MHz:   1599.975
CPU max MHz:   3800.
CPU min MHz:   1600.
BogoMIPS:  6800.59


Who knows what "this pc" is. In this case bogomips is a little less than 
double, may be the system is configured to never exceed 3.4GHz (derated) 
or may be the difference between core and turbo or who knows what else. 
Would help to see CPU model. (In future, "Model name" is much more 
usefule than "Vendor".)



$ lscpu | egrep '(Vendor|MHz|MIPS)' # Certain VPS
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU MHz:   2099.996
BogoMIPS:  4199.99


About double.


And,

$ lscpu | egrep '(Vendor|MHz|MIPS)' # Xeon X5675
Vendor ID: GenuineIntel
CPU MHz:   1600.000
BogoMIPS:  6117.70


x5675 is a 3.06GHz CPU that turbos to 3.46GHz, so bogomips is indeed about 
double the core frequency here. Older CPUs don't show min/max in lscpu 
output, only current frequency.


I spot checked a few systems here, found bogomips consistently about 2x 
max clock on skylake, haswell, xen+, silvermont, braswell and a couple 
of others. Heck, even the oldest thing I have that boots (a 200MHz 
pentium MMX) has a bogomips of 399.77 -- about double the MHz. The 
pentium pro family (+ ii & iii) got roughly the same bogomips as MHz. 
You have to go all the way back to the original pentiums, 486s, and 386s 
before you see major differences in the multipliers between CPUs. 
Anyway, the point remains--this is not useful as a benchmark.

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

2018-10-26 Thread Dennis Wicks




Richard Owlett wrote on 10/26/18 9:41 AM:
> Many man pages end with:
>> The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo
>> manual. If the info > and XYZ programs are properly
>> installed at your site, the command
>>
>>     info XYZ
>>
>> should give you access to the complete manual.
> 
> I have problems with that.
> 1. I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find
> out whether or
>    not the package might be useful.
> 2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser
> acceptable format
>    {plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more
> functional.
> 
> 

I agree, and I have found a lot of info "complete manual"s
to be exactly like the man page!

Another thing you can try is

sudo apt show XYZ

That will give you a bunch of info including a few lines of
description. Usually enough to decide whether to pursue that
package further.

Good Luck!

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 03:13:20PM -0500, Dennis Wicks wrote:
>   sudo apt show XYZ

For the record, you don't need to be root to use apt show, or apt-cache show.

Re: versioning file system


On 10/25/18 7:45 PM, Roberto C. Sánchez wrote:

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 05:32:52PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:


Has anybody tried copyfs, fsvs, or anything else with file versioning?


In my experience, I have only found a need to version /etc and $HOME
(and really only parts of $HOME, as opposed to all of it).


/etc, per-user development directories, and per-user document 
directories are what I have in mind.




I find that git works really well for that.  In particular, on Debian
you can install etckeeper and it will automatically commit any changes
to /etc before a package installation run, after a package installation
run, and on a daily basis.  You can also manually commit and customize
the message.


I've noticed etckeeper over the years, but have yet to try it.  I didn't 
know it integrated with Apt; this supports my implied goal of copy-on-write.



David

Help with gitlab

2018-10-26 Thread Dennis Wicks

Greetings;

So far everything I have wanted to get from git has had a
button for "download zip file" and everything worked great.
I am trying to get a package that doesn't have a download
link. Anybody know the secret command to get the source in
some usable format?

I have tried the regular rt-clk&save approach and a download
manager but it seems the files are actually html!

Any hints, tips, or examples appreciated!

TIA,
Dennis

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

2018-10-26 Thread Dennis Wicks




Greg Wooledge wrote on 10/26/18 3:16 PM:
> On Fri, Oct 26, 2018 at 03:13:20PM -0500, Dennis Wicks wrote:
>>  sudo apt show XYZ
> 
> For the record, you don't need to be root to use apt show, or apt-cache show.
> 
> 
> 
Right you are! I guess it has become such a habit I just do
it automatically!

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

2018-10-26 Thread John Hasler

Dennis Wicks writes:
> Another thing you can try is

>   sudo apt show XYZ

> That will give you a bunch of info including a few lines of
> description. Usually enough to decide whether to pursue that
> package further.

That will give you the complete package description (and sudo is not
needed).

-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: versioning file system


On 10/26/18 6:57 AM, Dan Ritter wrote:

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 05:32:52PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:


I did Fortran programming on VAX/VMS machines back in the 1980's.  Its
file versioning feature was a godsend [1][2].  I want that on my Debian
machines.

2018-10-25 17:28:29 dpchrist@vstretch ~
$ apt-cache search versioning file system
copyfs - Versioning filesystem for FUSE
davfs2 - mount a WebDAV resource as a regular file system
dvcs-autosync - Automatically synchronize distributed version control
repositories
fsvs - Full system versioning with metadata support
fusedav - filesystem to mount WebDAV shares
incron - cron-like daemon which handles filesystem events
python-migrate - Database schema migration for SQLAlchemy - Python 2.7
python-migrate-doc - Database schema migration for SQLAlchemy - doc
python3-migrate - Database schema migration for SQLAlchemy - Python 3.x


Has anybody tried copyfs, fsvs, or anything else with file versioning?


The problem with fsvs and copyfs and other FUSE-based things is
that they tend to be slow, so slow that you don't want to put
major chunks of your system in them.


Yes, FUSE is slower.  But, it might be fast enough for what I have in mind.



On the other hand, it's usually easy to make whatever editor you
habitually use hook into a versioning system for every save:

emacs git-auto-commit-mode
vim  vim-auto-commit or fugitive
atom Git-Plus


When I'm working on a file, I can do ten edit/ saves, or more.  With a 
versioning file system, the original file plus all the saves would be on 
disk.  This makes it easy to pick through them using standard tools. 
But if the original file and all but the last save are in a version 
control system (VCS), I would need tools that can reach inside the VCS. 
Searching the manual pages of cat(1), grep(1), diff(1), and make(1) for 
'CVS' just now, I found zero hits.  This means I'd need to check them 
out.  Now I'm back to what a versioning file system gives me automatically.



Furthermore, auto-commit on every save would put a lot of cruft into the 
VCS, to be stored, backed up, and archived repeatedly and indefinitely.



If I try to remove the VCS auto-commits by hand, eventually I will 
damage or destroy the VCS repository (e.g. Murphy's Law).  Removing VCS 
auto-commits mechanically would require developing and validating a 
suitable work flow and tools, adding cost and limiting flexibility.




and it turns out that Microsoft open-sourced Visual Studio Code
and it has git support built-in.

On the other hand, if you want a system that is fast and can
handle everything, not just what you are working on right now,
you could

- install rsnapshot and have it do automatic periodic backups,
   like once an hour

- use ZFS and tell it automatically make snapshots, maybe even
   once an hour (syncoid/sanoid are your friends here).


Copy-on-schedule solutions have their cost/ benefit propositions.  But 
for this use-case, I want a copy-on-write solution.



David

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Fri 26 Oct 2018 at 15:13:20 -0500, Dennis Wicks wrote:

> 
> 
> Richard Owlett wrote on 10/26/18 9:41 AM:
> > Many man pages end with:
> >> The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo
> >> manual. If the info > and XYZ programs are properly
> >> installed at your site, the command
> >>
> >>     info XYZ
> >>
> >> should give you access to the complete manual.
> > 
> > I have problems with that.
> > 1. I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find
> > out whether or
> >    not the package might be useful.
> > 2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser
> > acceptable format
> >    {plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more
> > functional.
> > 
> > 
> 
> I agree, and I have found a lot of info "complete manual"s
> to be exactly like the man page!

Please give an example.

-- 
Brian.

Re: versioning file system


On 10/26/18 12:59 PM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:

On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 05:32:52PM -0700, David Christensen wrote:

Has anybody tried copyfs, fsvs, or anything else with file versioning?


I haven't, but I would postulate that if they worked as well as you
might hope, we'd all already be using them.


I would postulate that most of us use what is provided OOTB -- e.g. by 
the Debian installer (d-i) -- and what is fully integrated/ supported 
into the distribution -- e.g. Apt, systemd, userspace, whatever.



I wrestled with ZFS on Debian a few years back (on Wheezy?).  Then and 
now, Apt offered the zfs-fuse package.  zfs-fuse was slow and had a 
dated feature set, but it worked and was reasonably well integrated into 
Debian.  ZFS on Linux (ZOL) was available as a download.  I built and 
installed it.  ZOL was performant and up-to-date, but integrating ZOL 
into Debian was my responsibility.  So, I wrote some scripts and hacked 
them into the init and shutdown systems.  ZFS rocked, but my amateur 
integration was brittle.  And, I soon realized that ZFS is unsupported 
by the d-i rescue shell.  Now I use btrfs.



David

Re: Proof of concept: Mailing list "software" without MTA

On Friday, October 26, 2018 01:50:22 AM Reco wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 05:57:04PM -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:
< darn, I lost one of the "citations" -- can't think of the right word -- I 
think it was Reco who wrote:>

> > > It says here what you've used Google's MTA.
> > > It even has correct DKIM signature, and that's something that means you
> > > haven't forged the headers.
> > 
> > That's interesting, because I have at least somewhat modified the
> > headers.
> 
> Whatever you did with e-mail locally - i.e. before giving it to Google
> to deliver - does not break DKIM. DKIM is computed by MTA.
> 

Ahh, ok, thanks.


> > > 
> > > SpamAssassin, anyone?
> > 
> > I don't know if I could invoke SpamAssassin on yahoo's mail lists (but,
> > of course, I could invoke it on any thing I run or build locally).
> 
> The trick here is to have full e-mail (RFC822 headers and body) locally.
> It's my understanding that you have that.

Yes, of course. ;-)

> > > formail from procmail or reformail from maildrop.
> > > And changing existing Message-ID header is a really bad idea.
> > 
> > Well, I wasn't sure how mail lists normally handle that -- clearly the
> > message has a MessageId when sent from the subscriber -- I would have
> > guessed the mail list would use a different MessageID when forwarding it
> > (sending it) to other subscribers, especially recognizing that the text
> > and such do get some changes.
> 
> Your e-mail contains this, along the other things:
> 
> DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
> d=gmail.com; s=20161025;
>
> h=from:to:subject:date:user-agent:references:in-reply-to:mime-version
> 
> :content-transfer-encoding:message-id;
> 
> ...
> 
> That means that Google vouched that all e-mail headers listed in "h=",
> including Message-ID are legit.
> Any e-mail receiver including debian-user's MTA (bendel.debian.org) can
> verify that header (bendel does).
> Changing any DKIM-protected header will break DKIM signature, and that
> means such e-mail can be rightfully rejected by receiver.
> 
> But wait, there's more. Message-ID has special meaning - replying
> e-mails can reference it. You change Message-ID - you break threading.

Ahh, yes, I don't want to break threading.

Thanks for all the clarifications!

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Friday, October 26, 2018 05:39:55 PM Brian wrote:
> On Fri 26 Oct 2018 at 15:13:20 -0500, Dennis Wicks wrote:
> > Richard Owlett wrote on 10/26/18 9:41 AM:
> > > Many man pages end with:
> > >> The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo
> > >> manual. If the info > and XYZ programs are properly
> > >> installed at your site, the command
> > >> 
> > >> info XYZ
> > >> 
> > >> should give you access to the complete manual.
> > > 
> > > I have problems with that.
> > > 1. I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find
> > > out whether or
> > >not the package might be useful.
> > > 2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser
> > > acceptable format
> > >{plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more
> > > functional.
> > 
> > I agree, and I have found a lot of info "complete manual"s
> > to be exactly like the man page!
> 
> Please give an example.

I'm not the OP, and I don't have an example at hand, but I can vouch for the 
same thing, man pages and info containing the same information, modulo looking 
a little different.

It's probably been 15 years since I bothered looking at an info page -- maybe 
there are no more duplicate man and info pages -- but I don't believe that.

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

On Fri 26 Oct 2018 at 18:02:39 -0400, rhkra...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Friday, October 26, 2018 05:39:55 PM Brian wrote:
> > On Fri 26 Oct 2018 at 15:13:20 -0500, Dennis Wicks wrote:
> > > Richard Owlett wrote on 10/26/18 9:41 AM:
> > > > Many man pages end with:
> > > >> The full documentation for Ed is maintained as a Texinfo
> > > >> manual. If the info > and XYZ programs are properly
> > > >> installed at your site, the command
> > > >> 
> > > >> info XYZ
> > > >> 
> > > >> should give you access to the complete manual.
> > > > 
> > > > I have problems with that.
> > > > 1. I don't want to install unneeded packages just to find
> > > > out whether or
> > > >not the package might be useful.
> > > > 2. The info output has an annoying format. A browser
> > > > acceptable format
> > > >{plain text fine --  HTML *NOT* needed} is MUCH more
> > > > functional.
> > > 
> > > I agree, and I have found a lot of info "complete manual"s
> > > to be exactly like the man page!
> > 
> > Please give an example.
> 
> I'm not the OP, and I don't have an example at hand, but I can vouch for the 
> same thing, man pages and info containing the same information, modulo 
> looking 
> a little different.
> 
> It's probably been 15 years since I bothered looking at an info page -- maybe 
> there are no more duplicate man and info pages -- but I don't believe that.

You can vouch for whatever you want. Without an example it is worthless.

-- 
Brian.

Re: versioning file system

2018-10-26 Thread David

On Sat, 27 Oct 2018 at 08:23, David Christensen
 wrote:

Hi, I've noticed that you give a lot of good advice on this list. Now, I hope
to return the favour :) ...

> When I'm working on a file, I can do ten edit/ saves, or more.  With a
> versioning file system, the original file plus all the saves would be on
> disk.  This makes it easy to pick through them using standard tools.

git is a "standard tool" these days.

> But if the original file and all but the last save are in a version
> control system (VCS), I would need tools that can reach inside the VCS.
> Searching the manual pages of cat(1), grep(1), diff(1), and make(1) for

git-cat-file(1)
git-grep(1)
git-diff(1)

> 'CVS' just now, I found zero hits.  This means I'd need to check them

CVS WTF? :)

> out.  Now I'm back to what a versioning file system gives me automatically.
>
>
> Furthermore, auto-commit on every save would put a lot of cruft into the
> VCS, to be stored, backed up, and archived repeatedly and indefinitely.
> If I try to remove the VCS auto-commits by hand, eventually I will
> damage or destroy the VCS repository (e.g. Murphy's Law).  Removing VCS
> auto-commits mechanically would require developing and validating a
> suitable work flow and tools, adding cost and limiting flexibility.

git-rebase(1)

Seriously, learn git. git's own documentation does not make that easy, but
if you search more widely for information and persist, it will be extremely
rewarding in the long run.

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

2018-10-26 Thread David

On Sat, 27 Oct 2018 at 06:50,  wrote:
> On Friday, October 26, 2018 02:22:32 PM Greg Wooledge wrote:

> > Use the "type" command to see.
> >
> > wooledg:~$ type cd
> > cd is a shell builtin
> > wooledg:~$ type ls
> > ls is hashed (/bin/ls)
>
> Ahh, wonderful -- thank you!

See also 'help type' for more guidance.

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?

2018-10-26 Thread John Hasler

rhkramer writes:
> I'm not the OP, and I don't have an example at hand, but I can vouch
> for the same thing, man pages and info containing the same
> information, modulo looking a little different.

Not always.
-- 
John Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA

Re: versioning file system


On 10/26/18 3:26 PM, David wrote:

On Sat, 27 Oct 2018 at 08:23, David Christensen
 wrote:

Hi, I've noticed that you give a lot of good advice on this list. Now, I hope
to return the favour :) ...


Thank you; I try.



When I'm working on a file, I can do ten edit/ saves, or more.  With a
versioning file system, the original file plus all the saves would be on
disk.  This makes it easy to pick through them using standard tools.


git is a "standard tool" these days.


Perhaps.



But if the original file and all but the last save are in a version
control system (VCS), I would need tools that can reach inside the VCS.
Searching the manual pages of cat(1), grep(1), diff(1), and make(1) for


git-cat-file(1)
git-grep(1)
git-diff(1)


cvs update -p ...

cvs diff ...


The first operation for both Git and CVS is necessary functionality 
(print a specific revision of a file on standard output).  The second 
and subsequent operations can be performed the Unix Way:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_way

cvs update -p ... | grep ...

cvs update -p ... | diff - ...

cvs update -p ... > ... && cvs update -p ... > ... && diff ...


A versioning file system exposes every version of file as a regular 
file, so that every file system aware tool can access it.



A good shell lets you easily combine the files and the tools as desired.



'CVS' just now, I found zero hits.  This means I'd need to check them


CVS WTF? :)


Yup.



out.  Now I'm back to what a versioning file system gives me automatically.


Furthermore, auto-commit on every save would put a lot of cruft into the
VCS, to be stored, backed up, and archived repeatedly and indefinitely.
If I try to remove the VCS auto-commits by hand, eventually I will
damage or destroy the VCS repository (e.g. Murphy's Law).  Removing VCS
auto-commits mechanically would require developing and validating a
suitable work flow and tools, adding cost and limiting flexibility.


git-rebase(1)

Seriously, learn git. git's own documentation does not make that easy, but
if you search more widely for information and persist, it will be extremely
rewarding in the long run.


I read the O'Reilly book "Version Control with Git" many years ago, but 
I haven't had a compelling use-case for Git.  (And, I prefer CVS's 
traditional per-file version numbering feature.)



David

Re: Online copies of textinfo content available?