Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Curt]

On 2016-12-19, Ben Caradoc-Davies  wrote:
> On 19/12/16 22:45, Nemeth Gyorgy wrote:
>> 2016-12-19 02:54 keltezéssel, john cusey írta:
>>> Time to go back to Windows.
>> Just do it. It will be better for everyone.
>
> Oh, have a heart.  :-)

The guy's a troll, for Christ's sake, and Ubuntu, as far as I know, has
the exact same package management system as Debian and wouldn't solve
OTP's problem, which is between his ears, where it belongs.

-- 
“It is enough that the arrows fit exactly in the wounds that they have made.”
Franz Kafka

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Cindy-Sue Causey]

On 12/20/16, Curt  wrote:
> On 2016-12-19, Ben Caradoc-Davies  wrote:
>> On 19/12/16 22:45, Nemeth Gyorgy wrote:
>>> 2016-12-19 02:54 keltezéssel, john cusey írta:
 Time to go back to Windows.
>>> Just do it. It will be better for everyone.
>>
>> Oh, have a heart.  :-)
>
> The guy's a troll, for Christ's sake, and Ubuntu, as far as I know, has
> the exact same package management system as Debian and wouldn't solve
> OTP's problem, which is between his ears, where it belongs.


It feels similarly different to what I went on about for a seconds
in the last week or so. It is my highly unhumble opinion that download
numbers have apparently taken a hit "somewhere else" and so troops
have hit the ground to re-recruit..

:)

Cindy :)

-- 
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with plastic sporks *

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Monday 19 December 2016 23:28:24 Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.

Glad you acknowledge that. ;-)  Some of us dislike Ubuntu. ;-)

Lisi

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Richard Owlett]

On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:


[1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.



I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application 
Software.

Do you know which desktop is being used?

I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has 
expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has 
sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want 
to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I 
currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles 
apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA

Re: Installing/running non-Debian executables

[Richard Owlett]

On 12/19/2016 11:48 AM, Michael Lange wrote:

On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 08:23:15 -0600
Richard Owlett  wrote:


I'm running Jessie with Mate DE.

I need to run the *IDENTICAL* versions of SeaMonkey (2.40) on
both my Windows and Debian machines. Downloading the appropriate
file, unpacking it, placing results in my Home folder, and
marking seamonkey as executable goes well.

Creating a launcher on desktop and test run shows no problem.

How do I place the launcher on the Applications drop down menu?


You will probably need a file seamonkey.desktop (as with Gnome)
in /usr/share/applications , see
here:https://developer.gnome.org/integration-guide/stable/desktop-files.html.en
for details.



Thank you. That almost solves my problem. As stated in its 
preface, it is developer oriented. That is a different mindset 
than end-user. I had done a web search and had found a "HOW TO" 
that was unsatisfactory as it had omitted some of the info given 
in your reference. I'll have to re-do my search not having 
bookmarked what I had found ;/

Thanks again.

Re: Installing/running non-Debian executables

[Richard Owlett]

On 12/19/2016 12:03 PM, Dejan Jocic wrote:

Richard Owlett  writes:


I'm running Jessie with Mate DE.

I need to run the *IDENTICAL* versions of SeaMonkey (2.40) on both my
Windows and Debian machines. Downloading the appropriate file,
unpacking it, placing results in my Home folder, and marking seamonkey
as executable goes well.

Creating a launcher on desktop and test run shows no problem.

How do I place the launcher on the Applications drop down menu?

TIA


I do not have mate installed around, but as far as I can remember:

Right click menu and select Edit menu, then category where your app
laucher should go, then something like add new item, name of app and
where it requires path to executable file.



"Right click" does several things, but not adding an item to an 
existing menu.

Mate error message under Debian 8.6.0

[Richard Owlett]

When I right click on the top panel and then chose "Help" I 
receive "Could not display help document 'mate-user-guide'. The 
specified location is not supported."


As I do not have adequate bandwidth for install from internet I 
use purchased sets of DVDs. I assumed the document had not been 
on DVD1. I used Synaptic to add the other 12 DVDs. I searched for 
'mate-user-guide' without success.


Where would the required documentation be?

TIA

Re: Mate error message under Debian 8.6.0

[Sven Joachim]

On 2016-12-20 08:34 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> When I right click on the top panel and then chose "Help" I receive
> "Could not display help document 'mate-user-guide'. The specified
> location is not supported."
>
> As I do not have adequate bandwidth for install from internet I use
> purchased sets of DVDs. I assumed the document had not been on DVD1. I
> used Synaptic to add the other 12 DVDs. I searched for
> 'mate-user-guide' without success.
>
> Where would the required documentation be?

Apparently it was only packaged after the Jessie release, due to some
licensing issues (GFDL) in versions prior to 1.10.  You could install
the version from testing[1] or an older one from snapshot.debian.org[2].
The latter is probably preferable, since it's closer to the mate
version in stable.

Alternatively, Linux Mint has a 1.8.1 version in their repositories[3]
which you could install.  Here is the usual disclaimer: inspect the
package before you install it, and if there's any file conflict with
Debian packages you are on your own.

Cheers,
   Sven


1. https://packages.debian.org/stretch/mate-user-guide
2. 
http://snapshot.debian.org/package/mate-desktop/1.10.2-1/#mate-user-guide_1.10.2-1
3. 
http://packages.linuxmint.com/pool/import/m/mate-desktop/mate-user-guide_1.8.1-0_all.deb

Re: Installing/running non-Debian executables

[emetib]

> 
> "Right click" does several things, but not adding an item to an 
> existing menu.

try this- https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=menu
i've used that in the past and seems to do what you're looking for.

em

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 20 December 2016 12:25:52 Richard Owlett wrote:
> On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> > [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> > LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
>
> I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
> Software.
> Do you know which desktop is being used?
>
> I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
> expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
> sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
> to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
> currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
> apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA

http://www.portsmouth.lug.org.uk/talks/201211.html
http://www.portsmouth.lug.org.uk/talks/201211.pdf

Initially it was called Debian Adapted for Dad.  The name was changed as it 
got more publicity, since it is the desktop layer that Adam's father actually 
sees.

It was originally done on KDE 3, because it is so configurable.  And that is 
why I use TDE, KDE 3's successor.

Lisi

Re: Installing/running non-Debian executables

[Joe]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 07:57:16 -0600
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 12/19/2016 11:48 AM, Michael Lange wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 Dec 2016 08:23:15 -0600
> > Richard Owlett  wrote:
> >  
> >> I'm running Jessie with Mate DE.
> >>
> >> I need to run the *IDENTICAL* versions of SeaMonkey (2.40) on
> >> both my Windows and Debian machines. Downloading the appropriate
> >> file, unpacking it, placing results in my Home folder, and
> >> marking seamonkey as executable goes well.
> >>
> >> Creating a launcher on desktop and test run shows no problem.
> >>
> >> How do I place the launcher on the Applications drop down menu?  
> >
> > You will probably need a file seamonkey.desktop (as with Gnome)
> > in /usr/share/applications , see
> > here:https://developer.gnome.org/integration-guide/stable/desktop-files.html.en
> > for details.
> >  
> 
> Thank you. That almost solves my problem. As stated in its 
> preface, it is developer oriented. That is a different mindset 
> than end-user. I had done a web search and had found a "HOW TO" 
> that was unsatisfactory as it had omitted some of the info given 
> in your reference. I'll have to re-do my search not having 
> bookmarked what I had found ;/
> Thanks again.
> 
> 

If you want a GUI solution, alacarte is the application, I'm not sure
where Mate would put it if installed. In Xfce4, it is 'Main Menu' under
Settings in the (somewhat) standard Applications menu tree.

-- 
Joe

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Joe]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:25:52 -0600
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> >
> > [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> > LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
> >  
> 
> I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application 
> Software.
> Do you know which desktop is being used?
> 
> I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has 
> expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has 
> sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want 
> to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I 
> currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles 
> apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA
> 
> 

A good start would be finding the reasons for the current annoyance with
Windows, you wouldn't want to replicate them in an attempt to keep his
environment familiar.

I went from Gnome2 to LXDE without too much trauma, at the time of
Gnome3's arrival i.e. pre-Mate. When LXDE started giving trouble, which
I now know was due to systemd arriving, I moved to Xfce4 and have been
happy with it.

Note that Windows 8 can be made somewhat civilised, as presumably can
10. He doesn't really have to live with daft tiles and fixed full-screen
windows if he doesn't want to. My Win8.1 laptop looks and behaves much
like Win7 almost all of the time.

-- 
Joe

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Lisi Reisz]

On Tuesday 20 December 2016 16:25:33 Lisi Reisz wrote:
> It was originally done on KDE 3, because it is so configurable.  And that
> is why I use TDE, KDE 3's successor.

Because it is very configurable, not because Adam used it for his Dad.

Lisi

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Richard Owlett]

On 12/20/2016 10:46 AM, Joe wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:25:52 -0600
Richard Owlett  wrote:


On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:


[1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.



I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
Software.
Do you know which desktop is being used?

I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA




A good start would be finding the reasons for the current annoyance with
Windows, you wouldn't want to replicate them in an attempt to keep his
environment familiar.


I've known him and his wife for >40 years. The rumbles I've heard 
have been that Microsoft changes things for the sake of changing 
things -- cf the change in default GUI from Gnome2 to Gnome3 [the 
reason I use Mate]. I'm aiming for a DE that someone who 
comfortably went from Win 3.x thru WinXP would feel at home with. 
I've not personally used anything since WinXP.




I went from Gnome2 to LXDE without too much trauma, at the time of
Gnome3's arrival i.e. pre-Mate. When LXDE started giving trouble, which
I now know was due to systemd arriving, I moved to Xfce4 and have been
happy with it.

Note that Windows 8 can be made somewhat civilized, as presumably can
10. He doesn't really have to live with daft tiles and fixed full-screen
windows if he doesn't want to. My Win8.1 laptop looks and behaves much
like Win7 almost all of the time.



I don't know if the laptop in question can support it, but I'll 
investigate having Grub (LILO?) menu present a choice of 
desktops. It will take some thought to have them present the same 
application software and access the same user data files. [I.E. 
read email with SeaMonkey under Mate one day and under Xfce4 the 
next without mucking up content/context]


[Previous paragraph is me thinking out loud ;]

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Ric Moore]

On 12/20/2016 12:16 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 12/20/2016 10:46 AM, Joe wrote:

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:25:52 -0600
Richard Owlett  wrote:


On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:


[1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.



I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
Software.
Do you know which desktop is being used?

I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA




A good start would be finding the reasons for the current annoyance with
Windows, you wouldn't want to replicate them in an attempt to keep his
environment familiar.


I've known him and his wife for >40 years. The rumbles I've heard have
been that Microsoft changes things for the sake of changing things -- cf
the change in default GUI from Gnome2 to Gnome3 [the reason I use Mate].
I'm aiming for a DE that someone who comfortably went from Win 3.x thru
WinXP would feel at home with. I've not personally used anything since
WinXP.



I went from Gnome2 to LXDE without too much trauma, at the time of
Gnome3's arrival i.e. pre-Mate. When LXDE started giving trouble, which
I now know was due to systemd arriving, I moved to Xfce4 and have been
happy with it.

Note that Windows 8 can be made somewhat civilized, as presumably can
10. He doesn't really have to live with daft tiles and fixed full-screen
windows if he doesn't want to. My Win8.1 laptop looks and behaves much
like Win7 almost all of the time.



I don't know if the laptop in question can support it, but I'll
investigate having Grub (LILO?) menu present a choice of desktops. It
will take some thought to have them present the same application
software and access the same user data files. [I.E. read email with
SeaMonkey under Mate one day and under Xfce4 the next without mucking up
content/context]

[Previous paragraph is me thinking out loud ;]


I think you'll find your friend happy with XFCE, as it is closest to the 
Win95 experience. (IMHO) Ric



--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Joe]

On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 11:16:28 -0600
Richard Owlett  wrote:

> On 12/20/2016 10:46 AM, Joe wrote:
> > On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:25:52 -0600
> > Richard Owlett  wrote:
> >  
> >> On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:  
> >>>
> >>> [1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> >>> LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
> >>>  
> >>
> >> I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
> >> Software.
> >> Do you know which desktop is being used?
> >>
> >> I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
> >> expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
> >> sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
> >> to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
> >> currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
> >> apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments?
> >> TIA
> >>
> >>  
> >
> > A good start would be finding the reasons for the current annoyance
> > with Windows, you wouldn't want to replicate them in an attempt to
> > keep his environment familiar.  
> 
> I've known him and his wife for >40 years. The rumbles I've heard 
> have been that Microsoft changes things for the sake of changing 
> things -- cf the change in default GUI from Gnome2 to Gnome3 [the 
> reason I use Mate]. I'm aiming for a DE that someone who 
> comfortably went from Win 3.x thru WinXP would feel at home with. 
> I've not personally used anything since WinXP.

Win7 is not far removed from XP, and productive work on a
non-touch-screen Win8 is done with it in 'desktop' mode, i.e. looking
like Win7. Pretty much any Linux DE can look and feel reasonably like
XP.
> 
> >
> > I went from Gnome2 to LXDE without too much trauma, at the time of
> > Gnome3's arrival i.e. pre-Mate. When LXDE started giving trouble,
> > which I now know was due to systemd arriving, I moved to Xfce4 and
> > have been happy with it.
> >
> > Note that Windows 8 can be made somewhat civilized, as presumably
> > can 10. He doesn't really have to live with daft tiles and fixed
> > full-screen windows if he doesn't want to. My Win8.1 laptop looks
> > and behaves much like Win7 almost all of the time.
> >  
> 
> I don't know if the laptop in question can support it, but I'll 
> investigate having Grub (LILO?) menu present a choice of 
> desktops. It will take some thought to have them present the same 
> application software and access the same user data files. [I.E. 
> read email with SeaMonkey under Mate one day and under Xfce4 the 
> next without mucking up content/context]
> 
> [Previous paragraph is me thinking out loud ;]
> 
> 
As far as I know, it's no big deal. The Display Manager will select
between DEs (and pure window managers if any are installed). I believe
they behave more or less as 'skins', i.e. the underlying applications
and data behave the same if they are capable of operating in the
current session, but may look different. What will change is the
desktop 'furniture', such as panels. What is these days a somewhat
standard menu structure should be accessible from anything with a
right-click over the desktop.

Experiment. The more capable Display Managers are gdm3 and kdm, there
are lighter weight ones available such as lightdm and xdm, which tend
to have fewer features. The capable ones can select a different DE/WM
for one session only, so if you get stuck without any panels or menus
because of a configuration error, rebooting will get you back to the
usual session.

-- 
Joe

Re: Nouveau Cache Error

[vpathak]

On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 3:20:07 PM UTC-4, David Baron wrote:
> Getting Nouveau cache read errors, source from smart. Can freeze system (KDE).
> 
> Where is this cache?
> 
> Have plenty of room.
> 
>  
> 
> Debian Sid box.




I encountered a similar error on fedora 25 - sometimes with chrome, and much 
more frequently with the webkit based native/default web browser.

The video display, mouse, keyboard would all freeze, but the ssh login would 
work - allowing one to see the nouveau cache errors in dmesg.

I tried a few arguments from 
https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/KernelModuleParameters/ , and developed 
the following workaround:

Add nouveau.nofbaccel=1 to the Linux kernel line during booting. On fedora it 
can be done by making changes to /etc/default/grub so that a line similar to 
this exists: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="verbose nouveau.nofbaccel=1"

After this, install this command line using grub mkconfig:

grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg 
Reboot - preferably manually inspect that the command line has the flag.

After this change, the performance is a bit worse - but hardware acceleration 
is still detected by desktop manager - hence it works in full graphics mode.

Can you try this command line flag on boot on the line which specifies the 
Linux kernel to load.

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[emetib]

> I don't know if the laptop in question can support it, but I'll 
> investigate having Grub (LILO?) menu present a choice of 
> desktops. 

you should be able to change the de from your login screen, if you're not doing 
auto login that is.

em

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Ben Caradoc-Davies]

On 21/12/16 01:25, Richard Owlett wrote:

On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:

[1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.


I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application Software.
Do you know which desktop is being used?


Unity, on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS.

Kind regards,

--
Ben Caradoc-Davies 
Director
Transient Software Limited 
New Zealand

Re: Nouveau Cache Error

[vpathak]

On Monday, October 19, 2015 at 3:20:07 PM UTC-4, David Baron wrote:
> Getting Nouveau cache read errors, source from smart. Can freeze system (KDE).
> 
> Where is this cache?

A wild guess (have to look at nouveau code - but didnt get the chance yet) - is 
that somehow the frame buffer pointer gets invalidated because of a bug in the 
driver.  Perhaps the error logger meant frame buffer when they said cache. 

> 
> Have plenty of room.
> 
>  
> 
> Debian Sid box.

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Brian]

On Tue 20 Dec 2016 at 06:25:52 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> >
> >[1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> >LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
> >
> 
> I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application Software.

I imagine that means something. I have a good imagination but it is
working overtime to grasp this idea.

> Do you know which desktop is being used?
> 
> I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has expressed
> annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has sent me an old laptop
> with an implied "put up or shut up". I want to put together a demo system
> that will be attractive to him. I currently planning on Mate as the desktop.
> We live 1000 miles apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use.
> Comments? TIA

Put fvwm on it. He will quickly forget about his Windows annoyances and
thank you profusely.

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Brian]

On Tue 20 Dec 2016 at 05:23:05 -0500, Cindy-Sue Causey wrote:

> On 12/20/16, Curt  wrote:
> > On 2016-12-19, Ben Caradoc-Davies  wrote:
> >> On 19/12/16 22:45, Nemeth Gyorgy wrote:
> >>> 2016-12-19 02:54 keltezéssel, john cusey írta:
>  Time to go back to Windows.
> >>> Just do it. It will be better for everyone.
> >>
> >> Oh, have a heart.  :-)
> >
> > The guy's a troll, for Christ's sake, and Ubuntu, as far as I know, has
> > the exact same package management system as Debian and wouldn't solve
> > OTP's problem, which is between his ears, where it belongs.
> 
> 
> It feels similarly different to what I went on about for a seconds
> in the last week or so. It is my highly unhumble opinion that download
> numbers have apparently taken a hit "somewhere else" and so troops
> have hit the ground to re-recruit..
> 
> :)

Thinking about this. Is the military reference important?

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Brian]

On Tue 20 Dec 2016 at 11:16:28 -0600, Richard Owlett wrote:

> On 12/20/2016 10:46 AM, Joe wrote:
> >On Tue, 20 Dec 2016 06:25:52 -0600
> >Richard Owlett  wrote:
> >
> >>On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:
> >>>
> >>>[1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
> >>>LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.
> >>>
> >>
> >>I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
> >>Software.
> >>Do you know which desktop is being used?
> >>
> >>I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
> >>expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
> >>sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
> >>to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
> >>currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
> >>apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA
> >>
> >>
> >
> >A good start would be finding the reasons for the current annoyance with
> >Windows, you wouldn't want to replicate them in an attempt to keep his
> >environment familiar.
> 
> I've known him and his wife for >40 years. The rumbles I've heard have been
> that Microsoft changes things for the sake of changing things -- cf the
> change in default GUI from Gnome2 to Gnome3 [the reason I use Mate]. I'm
> aiming for a DE that someone who comfortably went from Win 3.x thru WinXP
> would feel at home with. I've not personally used anything since WinXP.

Gnome went from version 2 to version 3 just for the sake of it? No
rationale? You can substanstiate that? Or are you passing on the received
wisdom?

> >I went from Gnome2 to LXDE without too much trauma, at the time of
> >Gnome3's arrival i.e. pre-Mate. When LXDE started giving trouble, which
> >I now know was due to systemd arriving, I moved to Xfce4 and have been
> >happy with it.
> >
> >Note that Windows 8 can be made somewhat civilized, as presumably can
> >10. He doesn't really have to live with daft tiles and fixed full-screen
> >windows if he doesn't want to. My Win8.1 laptop looks and behaves much
> >like Win7 almost all of the time.
> >
> 
> I don't know if the laptop in question can support it, but I'll investigate
> having Grub (LILO?) menu present a choice of desktops. It will take some
> thought to have them present the same application software and access the
> same user data files. [I.E. read email with SeaMonkey under Mate one day and
> under Xfce4 the next without mucking up content/context]

No. It doesn't take much thought. SeaMonkey should work flawlessly under
both DEs. But why change a DE every other day? 
 
> [Previous paragraph is me thinking out loud ;]

Try not to do this too often.

Re: Why I can not install software on debian easily?

[Richard Owlett]

On 12/20/2016 10:25 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:

On Tuesday 20 December 2016 12:25:52 Richard Owlett wrote:

On 12/19/2016 5:28 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies wrote:

[1] Actual case. Thinks she is using Windows because she has
LibreOffice. Certainly not representative of all grandmothers.


I suspect the User Experience is as important as Application
Software.
Do you know which desktop is being used?

I've been recommending Debian to an elderly friend who has
expressed annoyance with current version(s) of Windows. He has
sent me an old laptop with an implied "put up or shut up". I want
to put together a demo system that will be attractive to him. I
currently planning on Mate as the desktop. We live 1000 miles
apart so can't just drive over to show him what I use. Comments? TIA


http://www.portsmouth.lug.org.uk/talks/201211.html
http://www.portsmouth.lug.org.uk/talks/201211.pdf


The later is a fascinating read.
And not only because he agrees with me!

Should be required reading for ALL introductory Comp Sci 
curricula ! !! !





Initially it was called Debian Adapted for Dad.  The name was changed as it
got more publicity, since it is the desktop layer that Adam's father actually
sees.

It was originally done on KDE 3, because it is so configurable.  And that is
why I use TDE, KDE 3's successor.

Lisi

firefox + flashplayer on slow pc

[deloptes]

I have an older notebook with ATI. (Actually I gave it to a friend) Recently
I updated to OS is ubuntu 16.04 from 12.x.

glxgears looks good, but after installing later firefox when watching some
YT it slows down and video breaks. even lowering quality to 360 is not very
good.

I installed older version of FF and it was much better but still not good.

Do you have any idea how I can improve this?

thanks

Re: firefox + flashplayer on slow pc

[Nicolas George]

Le decadi 30 frimaire, an CCXXV, deloptes a écrit :
> I have an older notebook with ATI. (Actually I gave it to a friend) Recently
> I updated to OS is ubuntu 16.04 from 12.x.
> 
> glxgears looks good, but after installing later firefox when watching some
> YT it slows down and video breaks. even lowering quality to 360 is not very
> good.
> 
> I installed older version of FF and it was much better but still not good.
> 
> Do you have any idea how I can improve this?

Don't watch videos in your browser?

The UI is awful anyways. I always use youtube-dl (which, despite the
name, can handle many many video sites, including embedded) plus a real
video player (MPlayer for me, of course). And it has many advantages,
starting with the ability to save the video. Some day I will write a
script to automate it.

Note that the package for youtube-dl is mostly useless, sometimes even
the version in Sid: these sites change too often. But it is very easy to
install separately.


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Re: firefox + flashplayer on slow pc

[deloptes]

Nicolas George wrote:

> Don't watch videos in your browser?
> 

welll ... thats not an option

> The UI is awful anyways. I always use youtube-dl (which, despite the
> name, can handle many many video sites, including embedded) plus a real
> video player (MPlayer for me, of course). And it has many advantages,
> starting with the ability to save the video. Some day I will write a
> script to automate it.
> 

this is also not an option

> Note that the package for youtube-dl is mostly useless, sometimes even
> the version in Sid: these sites change too often. But it is very easy to
> install separately.

I use it personally but I can not have this solution for my firend

anything else?

thanks and regards

Re: firefox + flashplayer on slow pc

[Mark Fletcher]

On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 12:40:52AM +0100, deloptes wrote:
> 
> 
> anything else?
> 

Is the browser slow generally or specifically when you watch videos?

If the latter it may, unintuitively, be a problem with your _audio_ 
driver [1] (like some incompatibility with the newer version of firefox 
or some misconfiguration somewhere).

Worth looking at your graphics but also your audio setup, and how 
firefox is configured to use them? What happens if you try to watch a 
video (any old video) some other way?

Mark

[1] when mplayer has problems playing a video because not enough 
resources available, it often suggests the problem could actually be the 
audio driver. I'm basing this advice on the premise that the guys who 
wrote mplayer know more about this stuff than me. I've followed that 
advice to great effect in the past.

Re: firefox + flashplayer on slow pc

[deloptes]

Mark Fletcher wrote:

> Is the browser slow generally or specifically when you watch videos?
> 
> If the latter it may, unintuitively, be a problem with your audio
> driver [1] (like some incompatibility with the newer version of firefox
> or some misconfiguration somewhere).
> 
> Worth looking at your graphics but also your audio setup, and how
> firefox is configured to use them? What happens if you try to watch a
> video (any old video) some other way?
> 
> Mark
> 
> [1] when mplayer has problems playing a video because not enough
> resources available, it often suggests the problem could actually be the
> audio driver. I'm basing this advice on the premise that the guys who
> wrote mplayer know more about this stuff than me. I've followed that
> advice to great effect in the past.

hmm - very good idea - I'll check next
I only see firefox eating much of the CPU (load goes to 2-3), but of course
it could be also pulseaudio related or whatever in that chain.

Where do I find out how firefox is configured to use video/audio?

regards