network/bridging problems

[Ross Boylan]

I setup bridging on my system for kvm, but on restart of the host system
(no guest VM's running) could not ping outside my local network.

Bringing the bridge down corrected the  problem, but I'm trying to
understand what is going on, and how I can make networking from the VM's
work.

/etc/network/interfaces has (on the advice of a wiki page on Debian and
kvm)
auto br0
iface br0 inet dhcp
   pre-up ip tuntap add dev tap0 mode tap user root
   pre-up ip link set tap0 up
   bridge_ports all tap0
   bridge_stp off
   bridge_maxwait 0
   bridge_fd  0
   post-down ip link set tap0 down
   post-down ip tuntap del dev tap0 mode tap

My one connected interface, eth2, was brought up by hotplug with no
mention in interfaces.

Originally, with the system up, I added the br0 stanza to interfaces and
did ifup br0.  This temporarily interrupted my network connections,
which was not good, but they resumed afterwords.

This time I restarted the system and found networking non-functional.  I
could not ping my ISP's nameserver.
# ip route
default via 192.168.40.10 dev eth2  proto static 
192.168.40.0/24 dev br0  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.40.103 
192.168.40.0/24 dev eth2  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.40.102 
#  ifconfig
Tue Oct  1 23:14:42 PDT 2013
br0   Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 60:a4:4c:21:bc:9f  
  inet addr:192.168.40.103  Bcast:192.168.40.255
Mask:255.255.255.0
  inet6 addr: fe80::62a4:4cff:fe21:bc9f/64 Scope:Link
  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:896 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:434 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
  RX bytes:100681 (98.3 KiB)  TX bytes:49358 (48.2 KiB)

eth1  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 60:a4:4c:21:bc:9f  
  UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
  RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)
  Interrupt:17 Memory:f060-f062 

eth2  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 60:a4:4c:21:bc:a0  
  inet addr:192.168.40.102  Bcast:192.168.40.255
Mask:255.255.255.0
  UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:990 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:604 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
  RX bytes:145073 (141.6 KiB)  TX bytes:76668 (74.8 KiB)
  Interrupt:18 Memory:f050-f052 

loLink encap:Local Loopback  
  inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
  inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
  UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
  RX packets:323 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:323 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 
  RX bytes:92559 (90.3 KiB)  TX bytes:92559 (90.3 KiB)

tap0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr ce:45:fc:e6:32:46  
  UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
  RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
  TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
  collisions:0 txqueuelen:500 
  RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)

which looked OK to me; that is, ip route seems to show external packets
should go to eth2, which is the external interface, via the .10 address
of the router.  But
# ping 198.144.192.2
PING 198.144.192.2 (198.144.192.2) 56(84) bytes of data.
>From 192.168.40.102 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable

One difference between the ifconfig above and what I saw before
rebooting was that before rebooting eth2 had no IP (which seemed odd).

ifdown br0 also brought eth2 down.  I added iface eth2 inet dhcp
to /etc/network/interface and did ifup eth2; now I can reach the world
and see
# ip route
default via 192.168.40.10 dev eth2  proto static 
192.168.40.0/24 dev eth2  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.40.102

The operation of bridges and taps is mysterious to me, particularly the
relation between the two, even after reviewing man pages and various
other help.  I'd appreciate any guidance.

Thanks.
Ross Boylan


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Re: network/bridging problems

[emmanuel segura]

How did you configured eth2? dhcp too? why you tap as bridge port intend of
eth2?


2013/10/2 Ross Boylan 

> I setup bridging on my system for kvm, but on restart of the host system
> (no guest VM's running) could not ping outside my local network.
>
> Bringing the bridge down corrected the  problem, but I'm trying to
> understand what is going on, and how I can make networking from the VM's
> work.
>
> /etc/network/interfaces has (on the advice of a wiki page on Debian and
> kvm)
> auto br0
> iface br0 inet dhcp
>pre-up ip tuntap add dev tap0 mode tap user root
>pre-up ip link set tap0 up
>bridge_ports all tap0
>bridge_stp off
>bridge_maxwait 0
>bridge_fd  0
>post-down ip link set tap0 down
>post-down ip tuntap del dev tap0 mode tap
>
> My one connected interface, eth2, was brought up by hotplug with no
> mention in interfaces.
>
> Originally, with the system up, I added the br0 stanza to interfaces and
> did ifup br0.  This temporarily interrupted my network connections,
> which was not good, but they resumed afterwords.
>
> This time I restarted the system and found networking non-functional.  I
> could not ping my ISP's nameserver.
> # ip route
> default via 192.168.40.10 dev eth2  proto static
> 192.168.40.0/24 dev br0  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.40.103
> 192.168.40.0/24 dev eth2  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.40.102
> #  ifconfig
> Tue Oct  1 23:14:42 PDT 2013
> br0   Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 60:a4:4c:21:bc:9f
>   inet addr:192.168.40.103  Bcast:192.168.40.255
> Mask:255.255.255.0
>   inet6 addr: fe80::62a4:4cff:fe21:bc9f/64 Scope:Link
>   UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>   RX packets:896 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>   TX packets:434 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>   collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
>   RX bytes:100681 (98.3 KiB)  TX bytes:49358 (48.2 KiB)
>
> eth1  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 60:a4:4c:21:bc:9f
>   UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>   RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>   TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>   collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
>   RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)
>   Interrupt:17 Memory:f060-f062
>
> eth2  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 60:a4:4c:21:bc:a0
>   inet addr:192.168.40.102  Bcast:192.168.40.255
> Mask:255.255.255.0
>   UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>   RX packets:990 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>   TX packets:604 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>   collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
>   RX bytes:145073 (141.6 KiB)  TX bytes:76668 (74.8 KiB)
>   Interrupt:18 Memory:f050-f052
>
> loLink encap:Local Loopback
>   inet addr:127.0.0.1  Mask:255.0.0.0
>   inet6 addr: ::1/128 Scope:Host
>   UP LOOPBACK RUNNING  MTU:16436  Metric:1
>   RX packets:323 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>   TX packets:323 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>   collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
>   RX bytes:92559 (90.3 KiB)  TX bytes:92559 (90.3 KiB)
>
> tap0  Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr ce:45:fc:e6:32:46
>   UP BROADCAST MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>   RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>   TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>   collisions:0 txqueuelen:500
>   RX bytes:0 (0.0 B)  TX bytes:0 (0.0 B)
>
> which looked OK to me; that is, ip route seems to show external packets
> should go to eth2, which is the external interface, via the .10 address
> of the router.  But
> # ping 198.144.192.2
> PING 198.144.192.2 (198.144.192.2) 56(84) bytes of data.
> >From 192.168.40.102 icmp_seq=1 Destination Host Unreachable
>
> One difference between the ifconfig above and what I saw before
> rebooting was that before rebooting eth2 had no IP (which seemed odd).
>
> ifdown br0 also brought eth2 down.  I added iface eth2 inet dhcp
> to /etc/network/interface and did ifup eth2; now I can reach the world
> and see
> # ip route
> default via 192.168.40.10 dev eth2  proto static
> 192.168.40.0/24 dev eth2  proto kernel  scope link  src 192.168.40.102
>
> The operation of bridges and taps is mysterious to me, particularly the
> relation between the two, even after reviewing man pages and various
> other help.  I'd appreciate any guidance.
>
> Thanks.
> Ross Boylan
>
>
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>


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Re: device naming (was: should an end user stick to a kernel with an initrd?)

[Jan Ingvoldstad]

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 5:18 PM, Linux-Fan  wrote:

> On 09/28/2013 04:54 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> >
> > I only want to mention that this never happened on my machine within the
> > last >= 10 years and I turn my PC often on and off. How often does it
> > switch on your machine? Does anybody experience that sda became sdb
> > after rebooting? I don't claim that this can't happen.
>
> I have a similar situation here: The device names never change -- sda is
> always the same disk etc.
>
>
This may be true in some setups/motherboards.

Others will have different experiences, e.g. when a motherboard has two or
more disk controllers (e.g. one for SATA RAID and one for "regular" SATA),
or you have a controller in a PCIe slot and use disks on either the
controller or the motherboard, or you have several controllers in PCIe
slots.
-- 
Jan

Re: network/bridging problems

[Arun Khan]

On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Ross Boylan  wrote:
> I setup bridging on my system for kvm, but on restart of the host system
> (no guest VM's running) could not ping outside my local network.
>
> Bringing the bridge down corrected the  problem, but I'm trying to
> understand what is going on, and how I can make networking from the VM's
> work.
>
> /etc/network/interfaces has (on the advice of a wiki page on Debian and
> kvm)
> auto br0
> iface br0 inet dhcp
>pre-up ip tuntap add dev tap0 mode tap user root
>pre-up ip link set tap0 up
>bridge_ports all tap0
>bridge_stp off
>bridge_maxwait 0
>bridge_fd  0
>post-down ip link set tap0 down
>post-down ip tuntap del dev tap0 mode tap
>
> My one connected interface, eth2, was brought up by hotplug with no
> mention in interfaces.

Your 'physical' device eth0/eth2 or whatever needs to be added to the bridge.

List the output of  'brctl -show'

-- Arun Khan


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Re: network/bridging problems

[Bob Proulx]

Ross Boylan wrote:
> /etc/network/interfaces has (on the advice of a wiki page on Debian and
> kvm)

Which page is "a wiki page"?  I didn't find a wiki.debian.org one that
had an example like it.

How about this one?  It has good working examples.

  http://wiki.libvirt.org/page/Networking

> auto br0
> iface br0 inet dhcp
>pre-up ip tuntap add dev tap0 mode tap user root
>pre-up ip link set tap0 up
>bridge_ports all tap0
>bridge_stp off
>bridge_maxwait 0
>bridge_fd  0
>post-down ip link set tap0 down
>post-down ip tuntap del dev tap0 mode tap

Hmm... To me it doesn't make sense to use dhcp along with a network
bridge.  Normally you would use a bridge with a static IP address.  So
that external processes can connect to the VMs.

But you are using dhcp.  That implies that you are operating with
dynamic addresses.  Not necessarily true.  You could have the dhcp
server configured to give you reserved addresses.  But if not then it
doesn't make sense.

I am using this:

iface eth0 inet manual
auto br0
iface br0 inet static
address 192.168.1.119
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 192.168.1.1
bridge_ports eth0
bridge_stp off
bridge_fd 0
bridge_maxwait 0

But if you want to use dhcp then I recommend dumping the bridge and
using "virt-install ... --network network=default" instead.  Set the
default network to autostart "virsh net-autostart default".  It is a
simpler configuration.  Note that if you have Recommends: disabled (as
I do) then you need to manually ensure that dnsmasq-base (a Recommends:
package) is installed.

> My one connected interface, eth2, was brought up by hotplug with no
> mention in interfaces.

Do you have network-manager or wicd installed?  If so then that daemon
brought up the interface.

> Originally, with the system up, I added the br0 stanza to interfaces and
> did ifup br0.  This temporarily interrupted my network connections,
> which was not good, but they resumed afterwords.

If it was previously controlled by network-manager or wicd then things
would be in an inconsistent state with both it and ifupdown trying to
control it.

Bob


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Re: cron and package upgrade

[Vincent Lefevre]

On 2013-09-30 04:03:54 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 03:45:01PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> > On Sun, 2013-09-29 at 01:15 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > > On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 02:20:39AM +0200, Vincent Lefevre wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > During important upgrades such as locales, I avoid doing things
> > > > like starting an xterm... Usually, already running applications
> > > 
> > > You do system upgrades WITH X running? :(
> > > 
> > > If there is a problem with the upgrade of X, you could end up with a
> > > borked system, or one that is going to be a PITA to fix.
> > 
> > If something should cause such an issue by an update while X is running,
> > then I would restore from a backup and then do the backup with X not
> > running.
> 
> (We're talking about an important upgrade. i.e 6.0 -> 7.0)

I am not. I'm running Debian unstable. But an upgrade of a set
of packages can still be an important upgrade, e.g. in case of
transition related to the X server. However if something goes
wrong here, it should still be possible to restart the upgrade
from a text virtual console or via SSH.

-- 
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100% accessible validated (X)HTML - Blog: 
Work: CR INRIA - computer arithmetic / AriC project (LIP, ENS-Lyon)


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Re: Building computer

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/1/2013 5:13 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote:
>>> On Sep 30, 2013, at 10:33 PM, Stan Hoeppner 
> wrote:
> 
>> Actually they were, up to the point you finally told us what screen
>> resolution you use.  That changes things quite a bit, or I should say
>> changed one thing dramatically.
> 
>> I recommended a fast dual core CPU because more cores will be wasted.
>> The i3-4340 3.6GHz Haswell would have been as fast as the quad core you
>> bought, and saved ~$40-50.  4GB RAM, more than 4GB is wasted, but as I
>> said previously it's cheap so buy more if you want, won't hurt.  An SSD,
>> and APU graphics.  The only change in that recommendation, now that I
>> know your screen resolution, is shifting to a very fast high bandwidth
>> discrete card.  2560x1440 is a pretty insanely high gaming res if you
>> want high frame rates and smooth rendering at high detail.  Most "hard
>> core" gamers wouldn't touch 2560x1440 without SLI/Xfire.
> 
>> If going w/a single reasonably priced card you're going to want/need a
>> model with a 384 bit bus.  Extremely high resolutions require extremely
>> high memory bandwidth.  The 384bit nVidia models are all above $600.
>> The AMD 7950s can be had in the low $200s, and the 7970s in the low
>> $300s.  Both are 384bit.
> 
> You are right about the quad core not making any real difference. I have
> run the activity monitor and observed how one core is at 70% and another
> at 22% and two others unused. Average user applications are not yet written
> to take advantage of multiple core processors.

Nor will they ever be.  I'm glad you looked into it and see it now.  If
you search the list archives you'll see I've written a bit on the
multi-core issue, made the dual core recommendation many times, and went
so far as to suggest a new dual core design that AMD or Intel could
produce that would benefit everyone.  But they're shackled to multi-core
now because their marketing of the past 6 years or so has tried to
convince everyone that more cores are better.  Why?  Because they're
unable to increase per core performance at a rate which justifies buying
new CPUs.  If they did they'd have to reverse their marketing message,
and that is just fraught with problems.

The problem of efficient parallel programming will be with us for a VERY
long time.  And it's not that programmers, specifically game
programmers, aren't crafty or smart enough to write parallel code.  They
are far more capable than others.  The problems is that only a finite
amount of a given program's flow logic can be parallelized.  The rest
must remain serial.  And that serial part dominates most desktop
applications, including games.  That's why more cores don't help beyond
two for the vast majority of desktop applications and games.  See
Amdahl's law:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law

This is the limiting factor.  And this is why I implore people to buy
the fastest dual core and forgo the quad, six, eight core models.  And
in fact, for non gamer daily use, I recommend the single core AMD
Sempron, because a dual core is wasted with Firefox, Thunderbird, Flash,
Adobe Reader, etc.

I failed to make a convincing case before you purchased Catherine.  But
at least you'll now be armed with this information when you make your
next purchase.  Financially it's not a huge deal, maybe $50 more in this
case, 10% of the system price, for the quad core.  But two cores will
forever be wasted, and that $50 could have gone toward the discrete GPU
you need.

> I am glad you finally understand that my desire for a dedicated video card
> with a substantial amount of dedicated video ram was not just a case of
> "bigger, better, faster, more" but based on the reality of what is required
> to
> do what I do. I can't imagine what screen resolution you thought I had in
> mind.
> 1024x768? It hurts my old eyes to look at those.

We all make incorrect assumptions at times.  I keyed on one thing you
stated, which didn't get corrected until way late in the thread.  That
was "I am retired".  When I saw that I pegged you at 60+, or at least
late 50s.  I only know a few people in that age range, or older, playing
WOW or any games, and they do it on big box brand PCs with integrated
video on ~21 in screens.  However, they run a resolution much lower than
the panel native res so it's easier to read text without needing to use
the 2nd/3rd lenses of their bi/trifocals, for instance 1280x720 instead
of the panel native 1920x1080.  At 1280x720 a discrete GPU is overkill
for their needs.

This was my mistake for not asking point blank early in the thread what
res you were running instead of making assumptions based on your retired
status.  If I had asked more questions up front we could have avoided
the contention.  For that I apologize.

> I have also looked at my memory usage. At this very moment, not running
> WoW, I have 5.22 gig being used. 4 gig would not be sufficient for me.

You would be correct if the number you're looking at reflected
applica

dpkg segmentation fault

[Bob Proulx]

I am helping a buddy with his Sid system.  He went several months
without upgrading.  Then recently tried to upgrade.  This resulted in
some problems.  Currently the system produces a segmentation fault
when trying to install packages.  For example:

  # dpkg-reconfigure debconf
  Segmentation fault

  # dpkg -i debconf_1.5.49_all.deb 
  (Reading database ... 387854 files and directories currently installed.)
  Preparing to replace debconf 1.5.49 (using debconf_1.5.49_all.deb) ...
  Unpacking replacement debconf ...
  Setting up debconf (1.5.49) ...
  dpkg: error processing debconf (--install):
   subprocess installed post-installation script was killed by signal 
(Segmentation fault)
  Errors were encountered while processing:
   debconf

Of course the segfault makes it difficult to make any forward progress
with dpkg.  dpkg is up to date Sid version 1.17.1.  But almost all
other packages are older revs from previous days of Sid.  I tried
downgrading dpkg to the version in Wheezy but the result was the same.

Thought before I did extreme things that I would ask here in case
someone already hit this in Sid sometime between a few months ago and
now?  If so what was the solution?

Thanks!
Bob


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Re: Building computer

[Jeff Bauer]

On 10/02/2013 04:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:

On 10/1/2013 5:13 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote:


I have also looked at my memory usage. At this very moment, not running
WoW, I have 5.22 gig being used. 4 gig would not be sufficient for me.

You would be correct if the number you're looking at reflected
application memory usage.  But it doesn't.  On any of the modern
operating systems one must damn near be a computer scientist to see the
actual memory usage.  The 5.22GB, this is on Debian, yes?  The system
monitor?  This reports process and cache memory usage.  The buffer/cache
will literally eat nearly all available memory all the time on Linux,
then free some when an application process needs it.  I've never used
OSX but it's probably similar in its desktop reporting tool.

This will really throw you for a loop.  Open a shell window and execute

~$ sudo echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches

Wait a few seconds and see what happens to that 5.22GB number.  Then
report back what you find.  You can do this while playing WOW as well.
That number will drop like a rock and WOW will keep on going, because
the memory you're freeing with that command is cache.  And again, Linux
will eat nearly all RAM for cache if the system is up long enough.



"free" is another quick way to see where all your RAM went.

Regards,

Jeff




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Re: Download speeds from your servers.

[Tom Grace]

On 02/10/13 03:42, Hakan Ozturk wrote:

Hi,
We are trying to find out what download and upload speeds your servers support. 
 Is there a place at your website where each server's download/upload capacity 
is documented?  What max. speeds should we expect to get when downloading an 
ISO file?


As far as I know, there's no central list of expected mirror speeds, 
though some mirrors have a bandwidth graph or similar (for example 
http://mirror.netcologne.de/ has one).


Generally your fastest mirror will be one hosted by your ISP or one in 
your country, though this may vary dependent on when their peak load is.



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Re: Download speeds from your servers.

[Hermann Sorgel]

You can try "netselect" packages to find best mirror for your location:
http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-basico.en.html#s-netselect

On 10/02/2013 02:37 PM, Tom Grace wrote:

On 02/10/13 03:42, Hakan Ozturk wrote:

Hi,
We are trying to find out what download and upload speeds your servers
support.  Is there a place at your website where each server's
download/upload capacity is documented?  What max. speeds should we
expect to get when downloading an ISO file?


As far as I know, there's no central list of expected mirror speeds,
though some mirrors have a bandwidth graph or similar (for example
http://mirror.netcologne.de/ has one).

Generally your fastest mirror will be one hosted by your ISP or one in
your country, though this may vary dependent on when their peak load is.





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Re: Building computer

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/2/2013 5:41 AM, Jeff Bauer wrote:
> On 10/02/2013 04:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>> On 10/1/2013 5:13 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote:
>>
>>> I have also looked at my memory usage. At this very moment, not running
>>> WoW, I have 5.22 gig being used. 4 gig would not be sufficient for me.
>> You would be correct if the number you're looking at reflected
>> application memory usage.  But it doesn't.  On any of the modern
>> operating systems one must damn near be a computer scientist to see the
>> actual memory usage.  The 5.22GB, this is on Debian, yes?  The system
>> monitor?  This reports process and cache memory usage.  The buffer/cache
>> will literally eat nearly all available memory all the time on Linux,
>> then free some when an application process needs it.  I've never used
>> OSX but it's probably similar in its desktop reporting tool.
>>
>> This will really throw you for a loop.  Open a shell window and execute
>>
>> ~$ sudo echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
>>
>> Wait a few seconds and see what happens to that 5.22GB number.  Then
>> report back what you find.  You can do this while playing WOW as well.
>> That number will drop like a rock and WOW will keep on going, because
>> the memory you're freeing with that command is cache.  And again, Linux
>> will eat nearly all RAM for cache if the system is up long enough.
>>
> 
> "free" is another quick way to see where all your RAM went.

Telling her to use free is premature at this point.  Especially if
you're not going to instruct her on how to use it.  Otherwise it will
only serve to confuse her.  Which is precisely why I didn't mention it,
at least not yet.

You've apparently not been following the thread for the past week Jeff.

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keyboard keycodes (squeeze)

[David Emerson]

I've just purchased an external keyboard for my laptop, and the keycodes 
reported by xev (and showkey on VT) are not as expected.


The keyboard is an IBM SK-8840; the laptop is an IBM Thinkpad, with a 
very similar keyboard. Both keyboards include two extra keys by the 
arrow keys, designated "back" and "forward". These work great on the 
built-in keyboard: showkey reports keycodes 158 and 159, which I can map 
however I like in X11.


However, I am not receiving those keycodes from the external keyboard. I 
am getting Alt_L + Left arrow (back) and Alt_L + Right arrow (forward). 
In showkey this corresponds to codes 105 and 106 respectively, along 
with Alt_L, code 56.


I tried booting with atkbd.softraw=0 but that did not make a difference 
in showkey either.


Is there something in the kernel that could be doing this? Maybe 
something in udev, or ... I don't know?


Hopefully I'll be able to test on a wheezy box tomorrow; Thus far I have 
tested on two squeeze boxes.


Thanks!
~David.


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autostarting a terminal.

[peasthope]

Given ~/.config/autostart/openaterminal.desktop containing
  Exec=lxterminal
  Terminal=false
a terminal is opened on the desktop following login.

If the two lines changed to   
  Exec=sh
  Terminal=true
no terminal is opened.  Nothing in /var/log/* contains "autostart".

What has happened in the second case?  Thanks,   ... Peter E.



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Re: Building computer

[Jonathan Dowland]

On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 03:59:15AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
> This will really throw you for a loop.  Open a shell window and execute
> 
> ~$ sudo echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches

She'll probably get 'Permission denied', you need elevated permissions
for the writing process, which in this case is the outer shell. Try
instead

  $ sudo sh -c "echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches"


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Re: Building computer

[Rhiamom]

> On Oct 2, 2013, at 4:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner  wrote
> 
> This is the limiting factor.  And this is why I implore people to buy
> the fastest dual core and forgo the quad, six, eight core models.  And
> in fact, for non gamer daily use, I recommend the single core AMD
> Sempron, because a dual core is wasted with Firefox, Thunderbird, Flash,
> Adobe Reader, etc.
> 
> I failed to make a convincing case before you purchased Catherine.  But
> at least you'll now be armed with this information when you make your
> next purchase.  Financially it's not a huge deal, maybe $50 more in this
> case, 10% of the system price, for the quad core.  But two cores will
> forever be wasted, and that $50 could have gone toward the discrete GPU
> you need.

I never suggested you were not correct about the CPU.  I observed the lack 
of utilization of multiple cores on my first dual-core machine in 2006. I got 
The Haswell for the speed, lower power consumption, and presumably less 
heat generation. And possible resale value later on.
> 
> 
> This was my mistake for not asking point blank early in the thread what
> res you were running instead of making assumptions based on your retired
> status.  If I had asked more questions up front we could have avoided
> the contention.  For that I apologize.

No apology needed. You did in fact peg my age correctly; I will be 61 next
month. And I too have known people who run less than the native resolution 
to make the fonts bigger. When I get to that point, though, I will simply 
increase 
the font size so I don't get jaggies and blurry letters. Right now my eyes need 
the sharpness of the image, not a size increase. 
> 
> You would be correct if the number you're looking at reflected
> application memory usage.  But it doesn't.  On any of the modern
> operating systems one must damn near be a computer scientist to see the
> actual memory usage.  The 5.22GB, this is on Debian, yes?  The system
> monitor?  This reports process and cache memory usage.  The buffer/cache
> will literally eat nearly all available memory all the time on Linux,
> then free some when an application process needs it.  I've never used
> OSX but it's probably similar in its desktop reporting tool.

This was in OS X. The memory use would be similar in Debian, I assume. About 
a quarter of the used memory was "inactive" which I assume was the cache. Still
too close for comfort for me, as WoW was not running, nor ventrilo, and WoW 
does background downloads of the almost-weekly patches while you play, so even 
more processes.
> 
> This will really throw you for a loop.  Open a shell window and execute
> 
> ~$ sudo echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
> 
> Wait a few seconds and see what happens to that 5.22GB number.  Then
> report back what you find.  You can do this while playing WOW as well.
> That number will drop like a rock and WOW will keep on going, because
> the memory you're freeing with that command is cache.  And again, Linux
> will eat nearly all RAM for cache if the system is up long enough.

It is the nature of *nix to gobble up memory, yes. It will use what is there 
whether it needs it or not. But my Debian box has not arrived yet, so I can't
run that command there. I could try it in terminal on my iMac, and it would 
probably work. 
> 
>> I do thank you for the advice pertaining to a 384 bit bus and a gig more
>> video ram than I was planning to get. That is advice that I will be
>> following.
> 
> You're welcome.  Keep in mind that at 2560x1440 the 7950/7970 may still
> not be fast enough for full detail in WOW with GPU settings on high.
> The extra GB of VRAM won't get utilized but you need the memory
> bandwidth of a 384bit bus.  Nobody sells, AFAICT, a 2GB model using
> these GPUs.
> 
> I can't tell you where the setting resides, or if you have to edit
> xorg.conf, but you will want to use double buffering, not triple
> buffering.  You'll also want to disable full screen antialiasing (FSAA)
> and anisotropic filtering, or set them to very low values such as 2x or
> 4x, or play with the settings until you strike the right balance.  They
> are variable from off to 16x.  These are driver settings for the GPU.
> They affect the image quality by smoothing the pixels of straight lines
> and the edges of objects in the scene, i.e. removing "jaggies", such as
> on the ears or dangling hair of characters, the tip of arrows sticking
> out of a quiver, etc.

Oddly enough, these are also WoW in-game settings. The Mac section of the
WoW forum has specific advice on how to set those for every model of Mac 
that can run the game. 
> 
> You may be able to tweak these on the MAC to get acceptable smoothness
> from your 6970 as well.  GPUs are infinitely tweakable to balance speed
> against image quality.

I usually have acceptable smoothness, but I might need to tweak my settings a 
bit more. I was getting lag and jerkiness in the newest raid. I strongly 
suspect it 
was my husband giving a piano lesson via Skype whi

Getting Postfix to sort spam into different folders

[Robin Kipp]

Hi all,
I've been running my own mail server for a while (Postfix as the MTA and 
Dovecot for retrieving mail via IMAP).
Yesterday, I added amavis-new for content filtering, and so far have 
implemented spam checking using spamassassin and virus filtering using clamav.
All this appears to be working well - if anyone has some time to spare, feel 
free to check the header of this message - if there are any things that could 
be improved, I certainly would appreciate any feedback! :-)
So, now that spamassassin is flagging junk mail, I really would like a way of 
having said junk sorted into a different folder for each user. I'm aware this 
can also be done on the MUA side, but on some end-user devices (such as 
smartphones), junkmail filtering is often not supported very unfortunately.
So, I was just wondering… Is there any way I could do this on the server side?
My main problem really is that I'm not sure where I'd best set this up - but 
I'm guessing I'd have to do it in Postfix, as I use the 'virtual' local 
delivery agent to drop incoming mail into the appropriate directories. Also, 
the mailboxes are stored in maildir format if that makes any difference…
If anyone has anything like this working or could point me in the right 
direction I would greatly appreciate that!
Many thanks :-)
Robin

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Re: Building computer

[Celejar]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 10:42:57 -0400
Rhiamom  wrote:

> > On Oct 2, 2013, at 4:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner  wrote

...

> > You would be correct if the number you're looking at reflected
> > application memory usage.  But it doesn't.  On any of the modern
> > operating systems one must damn near be a computer scientist to see the
> > actual memory usage.  The 5.22GB, this is on Debian, yes?  The system
> > monitor?  This reports process and cache memory usage.  The buffer/cache
> > will literally eat nearly all available memory all the time on Linux,
> > then free some when an application process needs it.  I've never used
> > OSX but it's probably similar in its desktop reporting tool.
> 
> This was in OS X. The memory use would be similar in Debian, I assume. About 
> a quarter of the used memory was "inactive" which I assume was the cache. 
> Still
> too close for comfort for me, as WoW was not running, nor ventrilo, and WoW 
> does background downloads of the almost-weekly patches while you play, so 
> even 
> more processes.

It may be necessary to be a computer scientist to understand stuff like
VIRT / RES / SHR, but it's trivial to separate out process and cache
usage - one just looks at the second, rather than first, line of 'free'
output.

Celejar


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Re: Getting Postfix to sort spam into different folders

[Jonathan Dowland]

I do this using procmail on my server, with a .procmailrc in each user's
folder. I do use virtual accounts but there's at least one UNIX account
behind each virtual one (so it's many virtual:one UNIX mapping), so if
you don't have real UNIX accounts at the bottom this won't work. Also
procmail is horrid, I use exim and could probably move to exim filter
language (in ~/.forward) if I could ever be bothered to learn it.

I am not aware if postfix has something similar internally but strongly
suspect it can be wrangled to support procmail.


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Re (2): Multiplicity of accounts.

[peasthope]

From:   Joel Rees 
Date:   Wed, 2 Oct 2013 15:30:26 +0900
> On MSWindows XP, ... surfing the net as the primary admin user
>  ... was the primary path of ingress and the primary cause of the 
> proliferation of 'bot nets.

A flaw in Windows to contrast with Debian?

> And accessing your bank logged in as the same user that you use to
> surf random sites is one of the primary causes of leaked bank account
> numbers and passwords.

The banking information is stored in a cookie.  Subsequently a site other 
than the bank is allowed to read the cookie?  A failure of the browser.  
Correct?  Prior to studying this thoroughly, I might stick to personal banking.

> What does Puppy have to do with anything?

Merely an example contrasting a multi-user installation.  It's the best 
example I could conjure.

> And what does using permissions improperly to allow several people to
> edit a document have to do with anything?

Certainly permissions should be used correctly.  

There can be more than one solution to a problem.  To learn more about 
a wiki server and how it can support cooperative editing of a document 
and whether it can run on a single user system, I'll have to study further.

> I'm sorry to be rude, but I'm in a bad mood today. 

No obligation.  Your first response was helpful already.  Hundreds of other 
bright people read this an can contribute.

> I'm not going to
> try to carefully explain to you why you don't want your son or your
> best friend to log in as root ... 

That is exactly what might happen with Puppy Linux.  But not every 
computer is time shared.  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_sharing
Physical security of a personal machine can exclude everyone but the 
owner and personal ownership of computers is commonplace.  Cell 
phones alone must outnumber desktop machines by a factor of 1000 or more.

> ... you don't want all your users having full access to every document 
> on your system. 

The fixed disk drive is no longer the only working storage.  Data can be 
on a flash store which is removed when the user leaves the machine.   

Our discussion emphasizes that I also need to convince myself that 
browser data is not left in /tmp or in ~/.config at logout.  ~/.bash_logout 
might be my last resort to remove data left by sloppy software and I need to 
study further.  Seems the topic should be in http://wiki.debian.org/.

Regards, ... Peter E.




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Re: Re (2): Multiplicity of accounts.

[Jerry Stuckle]

On 10/2/2013 12:24 PM, peasth...@shaw.ca wrote:

From:   Joel Rees 
Date:   Wed, 2 Oct 2013 15:30:26 +0900

On MSWindows XP, ... surfing the net as the primary admin user
  ... was the primary path of ingress and the primary cause of the
proliferation of 'bot nets.


A flaw in Windows to contrast with Debian?



No more so than running Debian (or any Linux distro) as root instead of 
another user.  But unlike Debian, full admin privileges was the default 
for WXP.



And accessing your bank logged in as the same user that you use to
surf random sites is one of the primary causes of leaked bank account
numbers and passwords.


The banking information is stored in a cookie.  Subsequently a site other
than the bank is allowed to read the cookie?  A failure of the browser.
Correct?  Prior to studying this thoroughly, I might stick to personal banking.



Not if your browser is working properly.  Cookies can only be sent to 
the domain which originated them (and, depending on the cookie options, 
subdomains of the main domain).


But too many people use the same userid/password for multiple sites, and 
a security problem on one site can expose those userids/passwords.  This 
makes it easy for a hacker to access one's banking account.


I use online banking all the time.  But I have a unique userid/password 
combination on each of my accounts.  These are long, non-obvious, known 
only to me and not stored on any computer.




Jerry


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Re: autostarting a terminal.

[Sarunas Burdulis]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 10/02/2013 09:17 AM, peasth...@shaw.ca wrote:
> Given ~/.config/autostart/openaterminal.desktop containing
>   Exec=lxterminal
>   Terminal=false
> a terminal is opened on the desktop following login.
> 
> If the two lines changed to   
>   Exec=sh
>   Terminal=true
> no terminal is opened.  Nothing in /var/log/* contains "autostart".

There may be some clues in ~/.xsession-errors.

BTW, your second case .desktop worked fine as a test here in KDE.

Sarunas Burdulis
http://math.dartmouth.edu/~sarunas

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iscsi not create block device

[Shane Johnson]

I ran into a problem with this last night and was wondering if anyone
else had and if there where any suggestions.

I set up the target like usual pointing it to a lvm then restarted the
service so it would be visible.
then on the initiators I did the discovery and adding the credentials
for the target.  I did the login and it said it was successful but  no
block device was created.
When I look at syslog all I see is the successful connection.

I am running 64bit Jessie.  Please let me know of any additional
information that you might need.

Thank you.
-- 
Shane D. Johnson
IT Administrator
Rasmussen Equipment


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Re: Re (2): Multiplicity of accounts.

[Richard Owlett]

peasth...@shaw.ca wrote:

From:   Joel Rees 
Date:   Wed, 2 Oct 2013 15:30:26 +0900

On MSWindows XP, ... surfing the net as the primary admin user
  ... was the primary path of ingress and the primary cause of the
proliferation of 'bot nets.


A flaw in Windows to contrast with Debian?


And accessing your bank logged in as the same user that you use to
surf random sites is one of the primary causes of leaked bank account
numbers and passwords.


The banking information is stored in a cookie.  Subsequently a site other
than the bank is allowed to read the cookie?  A failure of the browser.
Correct?  Prior to studying this thoroughly, I might stick to personal banking.


What does Puppy have to do with anything?


Merely an example contrasting a multi-user installation.  It's the best
example I could conjure.


And what does using permissions improperly to allow several people to
edit a document have to do with anything?


Certainly permissions should be used correctly.

There can be more than one solution to a problem.  To learn more about
a wiki server and how it can support cooperative editing of a document
and whether it can run on a single user system, I'll have to study further.


I'm sorry to be rude, but I'm in a bad mood today.


No obligation.  Your first response was helpful already.  Hundreds of other
bright people read this an can contribute.


I'm not going to
try to carefully explain to you why you don't want your son or your
best friend to log in as root ...


That is exactly what might happen with Puppy Linux.  But not every
computer is time shared.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_sharing
Physical security of a personal machine can exclude everyone but the
owner and personal ownership of computers is commonplace.  Cell
phones alone must outnumber desktop machines by a factor of 1000 or more.


... you don't want all your users having full access to every document
on your system.


The fixed disk drive is no longer the only working storage.  Data can be
on a flash store which is removed when the user leaves the machine.

Our discussion emphasizes that I also need to convince myself that
browser data is not left in /tmp or in ~/.config at logout.  ~/.bash_logout
might be my last resort to remove data left by sloppy software and I need to
study further.  Seems the topic should be in http://wiki.debian.org/.

Regards, ... Peter E.



Hu. Looks as though there be some here that might agree with 
my thought patterns, if not my conclusions and resultant actions.


I have three machines. I am the *ONLY* person with access to any 
of them.


One machine has my projects and associated data. There is an 
image of its hard drive on a 1TB USB drive which is currently not 
connected. This machine is physically incapable of connecting to 
the internet.


My second machine is effectively dedicated to email and web 
browsing. As I am on dial-up there is only a connection when 
actively in use. JavaScript and cookies are initialized to OFF 
each tine load SeaMonkey.


As I said in my original post 
(http://lists.debian.org/5245ccd2.9010...@cloud85.net), the third 
machine is set aside for experimenting OS installs. Thus the only 
"data" not from install media are boot menus and configuration info.


So why shouldn't I want the same privileges in the GUI as I have 
after issuing su in the command line mode?




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texlive: eurosans.sty missing

[Pierre Frenkiel]

I used the eurosans latex package since more than 10 years, and it suddenly
disappered. I now get:
   ! LaTeX Error: File `eurosans.sty' not found.

Of course, I could get a fix by downloading the file from CTAN,
I'm curious to know:

1/ how it could suddenly disappear.
2/ on what Debian package it was, or if it was created after the install of
   some texlive package..

best regards,
--
Pierre Frenkiel


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Re: dpkg segmentation fault

[Florian Kulzer]

On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 03:11:24 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:
> I am helping a buddy with his Sid system.  He went several months
> without upgrading.  Then recently tried to upgrade.  This resulted in
> some problems.  Currently the system produces a segmentation fault
> when trying to install packages.  For example:
> 
>   # dpkg-reconfigure debconf
>   Segmentation fault
> 
>   # dpkg -i debconf_1.5.49_all.deb 
>   (Reading database ... 387854 files and directories currently installed.)
>   Preparing to replace debconf 1.5.49 (using debconf_1.5.49_all.deb) ...
>   Unpacking replacement debconf ...
>   Setting up debconf (1.5.49) ...
>   dpkg: error processing debconf (--install):
>subprocess installed post-installation script was killed by signal 
> (Segmentation fault)
>   Errors were encountered while processing:
>debconf
> 
> Of course the segfault makes it difficult to make any forward progress
> with dpkg.  dpkg is up to date Sid version 1.17.1.  But almost all
> other packages are older revs from previous days of Sid.  I tried
> downgrading dpkg to the version in Wheezy but the result was the same.
> 
> Thought before I did extreme things that I would ask here in case
> someone already hit this in Sid sometime between a few months ago and
> now?  If so what was the solution?

My guess would be an incomplete or otherwise screwed-up Perl transition
(dpkg-reconfigure is a Perl script and debconf's postinst calls a bunch
of Perl scripts as well). Check the status of the Perl packages on your
friend's machine, here is what I have on up-to-date Sid/amd64:

$ dpkg -l perl\* libperl\* | awk '/^ii/{print $2,$3}'
libperl4-corelibs-perl 0.003-1
libperl5.18 5.18.1-4
perl 5.18.1-4
perl-base 5.18.1-4
perl-doc 5.18.1-4
perl-modules 5.18.1-4
perl-tk 1:804.031-1+b1
perlmagick 8:6.7.7.10-6

Other than that, I can only say that I cannot recall having any problems
with my Sid system in recent months, even though upgrading all packages
that can be upgraded is how I start almost every day.

-- 
Regards,|
  Florian   | http://www.florian-kulzer.eu


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Re: network/bridging problems

[Ross Boylan]

In response to Emanuel's question,
> How did you configured eth2? dhcp too? why you tap as bridge port intend
of eth2?
and Bob's question below on network managers:

When the system started /etc/network/interfaces did not mention eth2.
network-manager is installed but wicd is not.

My wireless router is currently serving as a dhcp server; it has a reserved
IP for the system under discussion.  This is not the long-run plan.  The
router keeps flaking out, perhaps in part because of some interaction with
the bridging: I've had 2 or 3 problems since I started the bridging, and
none since I took it down.  I solve them by power cycling the router; I
haven't diagnosed them further.

I thought the system hotplug behavior was doing the configuring and that
network-manager was not installed.  Wrong on both apparently.

That configuration did not work after a system restart: no packets traveled
to outside networks.

I then did "ifdown br0", which  took down eth2 as well.  I added a simple
dhcp stanza for eth2 to /etc/network/interfaces and ifup'd it.  That works,
in that I can reach the internet, but obviously it has no bridge.

As to " why you tap as bridge port intend of eth2?" I don't understand the
question, even reading "intend" as "instead".  But basically I was just
copying a configuration and had no deep reason.

Arun made a suggestion that
> Your 'physical' device eth0/eth2 or whatever needs to be added to the
bridge.
I believe that is done by the /etc/kvm/kvm-ifup script that is executed
when I launch the virtual machine.
It says, in part

switch=$(ip route ls | \
awk '/^default / {
  for(i=0;i List the output of  'brctl -show'
But that's empty (since I did ifdown br0, presumably).

More below
On Wed, Oct 2, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Bob Proulx  wrote:

> Ross Boylan wrote:
> > /etc/network/interfaces has (on the advice of a wiki page on Debian and
> > kvm)
>
> Which page is "a wiki page"?  I didn't find a wiki.debian.org one that
> had an example like it.
>
>
https://wiki.debian.org/QEMU#Host_and_guests_on_same_network


> How about this one?  It has good working examples.
>
>   http://wiki.libvirt.org/page/Networking
>

One thing I struggled with was that qemu-kvm, via the /etc/kvm/kvm-ifup
script I mentioned above, does some stuff automatically.  Help that is
written without that in mind tends to include instructions that either
duplicate or, perhaps, are at cross-purposes with it.


>
> > auto br0
> > iface br0 inet dhcp
> >pre-up ip tuntap add dev tap0 mode tap user root
> >pre-up ip link set tap0 up
> >bridge_ports all tap0
> >bridge_stp off
> >bridge_maxwait 0
> >bridge_fd  0
> >post-down ip link set tap0 down
> >post-down ip tuntap del dev tap0 mode tap
>
> Hmm... To me it doesn't make sense to use dhcp along with a network
> bridge.  Normally you would use a bridge with a static IP address.  So
> that external processes can connect to the VMs.
>
> But you are using dhcp.  That implies that you are operating with
> dynamic addresses.  Not necessarily true.  You could have the dhcp
> server configured to give you reserved addresses.  But if not then it
> doesn't make sense.
>

The dhcp server is configured for a reserved address.

I think I tried a much different bridge specification with a static IP; it
didn't work.

It doesn't seem to me as if the ip address of the bridge gets used, as
opposed to names like eth2, br0, and tap0

>
> I am using this:
>
> iface eth0 inet manual
> auto br0
> iface br0 inet static
> address 192.168.1.119
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> gateway 192.168.1.1
> bridge_ports eth0
> bridge_stp off
> bridge_fd 0
> bridge_maxwait 0
>

I thought for servers the recommendation was to hook into the hotplug
mechanism.  For lenny I had (IP address altered slightly)
mapping ethslow
  script /etc/network/trivial
  map ethwan
allow-hotplug ethslow
iface ethwan inet static
address 66.181.128.33
netmask 255.255.255.0
gateway 66.181.128.1
dns-nameservers 198.144.192.2 198.144.192.4
pre-up /etc/network/rb-iptables


The wireless router did not serve as a dhcp server, firewall, NAT, or
anything else in that configuration--which eventually is what I want to
return to.  The main system we're discussing is insufficiently hardened to
be directly on the internet for now.



>
> But if you want to use dhcp then I recommend dumping the bridge and
> using "virt-install ... --network network=default" instead.  Set the
> default network to autostart "virsh net-autostart default".  It is a
> simpler configuration.  Note that if you have Recommends: disabled (as
> I do) then you need to manually ensure that dnsmasq-base (a Recommends:
> package) is installed.
>

I'm not sure how that interacts with the kvm-ifup script I mentioned.

Even in the short run I can assign an IP address while continuing to use
the external router.


> > My one connected interface, eth2, was brought up by hotplug with n

Re: Re (2): Multiplicity of accounts.

[Richard Owlett]

Dan Ritter wrote:

On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 01:05:33PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:

I have three machines. I am the *ONLY* person with access to any of
them.

One machine has my projects and associated data. There is an image
of its hard drive on a 1TB USB drive which is currently not
connected. This machine is physically incapable of connecting to the
internet.

My second machine is effectively dedicated to email and web
browsing. As I am on dial-up there is only a connection when
actively in use. JavaScript and cookies are initialized to OFF each
tine load SeaMonkey.

As I said in my original post
(http://lists.debian.org/5245ccd2.9010...@cloud85.net), the third
machine is set aside for experimenting OS installs. Thus the only
"data" not from install media are boot menus and configuration info.

So why shouldn't I want the same privileges in the GUI as I have
after issuing su in the command line mode?


It's easy to screw up with root privileges when you've got a
command line moderating you; with a windowing system, you might
not even know you've screwed up until it's much too late to do
anything but restore from backup.




SO WHAT??? The machine is *DEDICATED* to experimenting which 
*ASSUMES* possibility of failure. There is inherently 100% 
backup, i.e. the install media. It will cost me less 
inconvenience to occasionally do a reinstall than jump through 
irritating unnecessary hoops.


Is this not the age of PERSONAL computing (and implied 
responsibility for ones actions)?




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Re: Re (2): Multiplicity of accounts.

[Dan Ritter]

On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 01:05:33PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> I have three machines. I am the *ONLY* person with access to any of
> them.
> 
> One machine has my projects and associated data. There is an image
> of its hard drive on a 1TB USB drive which is currently not
> connected. This machine is physically incapable of connecting to the
> internet.
> 
> My second machine is effectively dedicated to email and web
> browsing. As I am on dial-up there is only a connection when
> actively in use. JavaScript and cookies are initialized to OFF each
> tine load SeaMonkey.
> 
> As I said in my original post
> (http://lists.debian.org/5245ccd2.9010...@cloud85.net), the third
> machine is set aside for experimenting OS installs. Thus the only
> "data" not from install media are boot menus and configuration info.
> 
> So why shouldn't I want the same privileges in the GUI as I have
> after issuing su in the command line mode?

It's easy to screw up with root privileges when you've got a
command line moderating you; with a windowing system, you might
not even know you've screwed up until it's much too late to do
anything but restore from backup.

-dsr-


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Re: Re (2): Multiplicity of accounts.

[Dan Ritter]

On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 02:59:45PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> Dan Ritter wrote:
> >On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 01:05:33PM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote:
> >>
> >>So why shouldn't I want the same privileges in the GUI as I have
> >>after issuing su in the command line mode?
> >
> >It's easy to screw up with root privileges when you've got a
> >command line moderating you; with a windowing system, you might
> >not even know you've screwed up until it's much too late to do
> >anything but restore from backup.
> >
> 
> 
> SO WHAT??? The machine is *DEDICATED* to experimenting which
> *ASSUMES* possibility of failure. There is inherently 100% backup,
> i.e. the install media. It will cost me less inconvenience to
> occasionally do a reinstall than jump through irritating unnecessary
> hoops.
> 
> Is this not the age of PERSONAL computing (and implied
> responsibility for ones actions)?

You are responsible for your actions, and thus are responsible
for the consequences of your actions. By training yourself to
ignore users, groups and permissions, you will end up hurting
other people if you go out and apply this in other situations.

You can do whatever you want. Don't start shouting at me because
you asked a question and got a polite response. If you don't
choose to apologize, I will stop reading your mail.


-dsr-


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Re: dpkg segmentation fault

[Hugo Vanwoerkom]

Florian Kulzer wrote:

On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 03:11:24 -0600, Bob Proulx wrote:

I am helping a buddy with his Sid system.  He went several months
without upgrading.  Then recently tried to upgrade.  This resulted in
some problems.  Currently the system produces a segmentation fault
when trying to install packages.  For example:

  # dpkg-reconfigure debconf
  Segmentation fault

  # dpkg -i debconf_1.5.49_all.deb 
  (Reading database ... 387854 files and directories currently installed.)

  Preparing to replace debconf 1.5.49 (using debconf_1.5.49_all.deb) ...
  Unpacking replacement debconf ...
  Setting up debconf (1.5.49) ...
  dpkg: error processing debconf (--install):
   subprocess installed post-installation script was killed by signal 
(Segmentation fault)
  Errors were encountered while processing:
   debconf

Of course the segfault makes it difficult to make any forward progress
with dpkg.  dpkg is up to date Sid version 1.17.1.  But almost all
other packages are older revs from previous days of Sid.  I tried
downgrading dpkg to the version in Wheezy but the result was the same.

Thought before I did extreme things that I would ask here in case
someone already hit this in Sid sometime between a few months ago and
now?  If so what was the solution?


My guess would be an incomplete or otherwise screwed-up Perl transition
(dpkg-reconfigure is a Perl script and debconf's postinst calls a bunch
of Perl scripts as well). Check the status of the Perl packages on your
friend's machine, here is what I have on up-to-date Sid/amd64:

$ dpkg -l perl\* libperl\* | awk '/^ii/{print $2,$3}'
libperl4-corelibs-perl 0.003-1
libperl5.18 5.18.1-4
perl 5.18.1-4
perl-base 5.18.1-4
perl-doc 5.18.1-4
perl-modules 5.18.1-4
perl-tk 1:804.031-1+b1
perlmagick 8:6.7.7.10-6

Other than that, I can only say that I cannot recall having any problems
with my Sid system in recent months, even though upgrading all packages
that can be upgraded is how I start almost every day.



I get fewer Perl hits with an uptodate Sid:

hugo@hdbb:/sdc1$ dpkg -l perl\* libperl\* | awk '/^ii/{print $2,$3}'
+ dpkg -l 'perl*' 'libperl*'
+ awk '/^ii/{print $2,$3}'
libperl4-corelibs-perl 0.003-1
perl 5.18.1-4
perl-base 5.18.1-4
perl-modules 5.18.1-4

Hugo


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Re: autostarting a terminal.

[davidson]

On Wed, 2 Oct 2013, Sarunas Burdulis wrote:

On 10/02/2013 09:17 AM, peasth...@shaw.ca wrote:

Given ~/.config/autostart/openaterminal.desktop containing
  Exec=lxterminal
  Terminal=false
a terminal is opened on the desktop following login.

If the two lines changed to
  Exec=sh
  Terminal=true
no terminal is opened.  Nothing in /var/log/* contains "autostart".


There may be some clues in ~/.xsession-errors.

BTW, your second case .desktop worked fine as a test here in KDE.


OP, what do you have /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator linked to?
wouldn't be lxterminal, would it?

your issue looks similar to this:

 
http://superuser.com/questions/593246/launching-a-shell-script-via-desktop-in-raspbian-wheezy

i don't have a DE handy.  i haven't tested it.

-wes


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Re: autostarting a terminal.

[Dmitrii Kashin]

peasth...@shaw.ca writes:

> Given ~/.config/autostart/openaterminal.desktop containing
>   Exec=lxterminal
>   Terminal=false
> a terminal is opened on the desktop following login.
>
> If the two lines changed to   
>   Exec=sh
>   Terminal=true
> no terminal is opened.

Why don't you tell us which DE you are using?
I think a lot of people here does not use any one.
For autostart purposes in X.Org there's ~/.xsession file.


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Description: PGP signature

Re (2): autostarting a terminal.

[peasthope]

From:   Dmitrii Kashin 
Date:   Thu, 03 Oct 2013 01:35:17 +0400
> Why don't you tell us which DE you are using?

LXDE

From:   david...@ling.ohio-state.edu
Date:   Wed, 2 Oct 2013 17:17:31 -0400 (EDT)
> OP, what do you have /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator linked to?

peter@dalton:~$ ls -l /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 19 Jun  4 09:55 /etc/alternatives/x-terminal-emulator -> 
/usr/bin/lxterminal

> your issue looks similar to this:
>   
> http://superuser.com/questions/593246/launching-a-shell-script-via-desktop-in-raspbian-wheezy

That solves it.  Another instance where Google would have been more direct.

Thanks,... Peter E.

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Re: network/bridging problems

[Gregory Nowak]

On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 12:40:26PM -0700, Ross Boylan wrote:
> Can anyone explain to me what difference between tap and the bridge is?
> They both seem to do the same thing*, but apparently tap needs to be hooked
> in to a bridge.  And for some reason the qemu/kvm docs seems to recommend
> tap.

Ok, let me try to explain. If I'm wrong here, then someone who knows
better please jump in and correct me. Let's use a physical analogy. A
tap device is a virtual network device VS. a physical eth device which
is a card/chip in your computer. They both pass ethernet traffic, but
ethx is physical, and tapx is virtual.

Now, sticking to physical analogies, pretend you have standard
ethernet cables, and an ethernet switch. Your ethx, and tapx devices
are ethernet cables. Your brx device is the network switch. When you
bridge ethernet interfaces like eth0 and tap0 into a single bridge
device like br0, you're doing the equivalent of plugging your ethernet
cables into an ethernet switch. When you do that, your bridge becomes
a single network device. Traffic from any of the eth/tap interfaces
bridged together is seen by all other eth/tap interfaces on that
bridge. So, maybe I should have compared the bridge to a network hub,
instead of a switch.

Ok, here's where my analogy breaks down. When you bridge an ethx
interface, you don't use that interface anymore. So, if you bridge
your eth0 interface into an br0 bridge a line like iface eth0 in your
/etc/network/interfaces line becomes iface br0 instead. 
You have a line that says bridge_ports all tap0 in your interfaces
file, and that worries me. If I understand correctly, that line
combines all ethx interfaces on your system into a single bridge,
which likely isn't what you want. You also seem to have eth0 through
eth2 on your system. Do you really want the virtual machine to be able
to communicate over all three interfaces? If not, then which network do
you want the virtual machine to be on, eth0, eth1, or eth2? Whichever
one that is, you want to put that into your bridge. So, let's say you
want your virtual machine(s) to be on the eth2 network. So, a bridge
would look something like this:

...
iface br0 inet dhcp
bridge_ports eth2 tap0
...

Once you do that, the virtual machine configured to use tap0 would be
able to talk to all computers on the network to which eth2 is
connected. Since you are bridging eth2, you don't want to have:

...
iface eth2 inet dhcp
...

anywhere in your interfaces file. I use virtualbox and user-mode-linux
here, not kvm, so I don't know why kvm has its own networking script,
or how that script exactly does what it does. From looking at what you
posted, it looks like it adds tap devices used by virtual machines to
an existing bridge. If I'm right here, and I don't know for sure that
I am, you probably want something like this in your interfaces file:

...
iface br0 inet dhcp
bridge_ports eth2
...

which would make a bridge with one interface. Then if I'm right, your
kvm networking script would create tap devices, and add them to the
br0 bridge as needed. HTH.

Greg


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Re: dpkg segmentation fault

[Bob Proulx]

Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Florian Kulzer wrote:
> > My guess would be an incomplete or otherwise screwed-up Perl transition
> > (dpkg-reconfigure is a Perl script and debconf's postinst calls a bunch
> > of Perl scripts as well). Check the status of the Perl packages on your
> > friend's machine, here is what I have on up-to-date Sid/amd64:

A good suggestion.  Very likely related.  I manually walked through
the packages and upgraded them with dpkg -i perl-foo_X.Y.deb and I
think all of them are now at current Sid levels.  Unfortunately the
dpkg segfault continues.

I also found a large number of removed-config state packages.

  dpkg -l | awk '$1~/^rc/{print$2}'| wc -l
  469

Mostly libraries.

  dpkg -l | awk '$1~/^rc/&&$2~/^lib/{print$2}' | wc -l 345

Those seem safe to purge so purging them to simplify things somewhat.

  dpkg -l | awk '$1~/^rc/{print$2}'| wc -l
  124

I am able to manually upgrade by 'dpkg -i' for individual packages.  A
little tedious.  But making some progress.  I am going to try to get
perl completely up to date.  That hopefully will fix the sig segv
problem.

Thanks!
Bob


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Re: dpkg segmentation fault

[Bob Proulx]

Bob Proulx wrote:
> Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> > Florian Kulzer wrote:
> > > My guess would be an incomplete or otherwise screwed-up Perl transition
> > > (dpkg-reconfigure is a Perl script and debconf's postinst calls a bunch
> > > of Perl scripts as well). Check the status of the Perl packages on your
> > > friend's machine, here is what I have on up-to-date Sid/amd64:
> > >
> > > $ dpkg -l perl\* libperl\* | awk '/^ii/{print $2,$3}'
> 
> A good suggestion.  Very likely related.  I manually walked through
> the packages and upgraded them with dpkg -i perl-foo_X.Y.deb and I
> think all of them are now at current Sid levels.  Unfortunately the
> dpkg segfault continues.
> ...
> I am able to manually upgrade by 'dpkg -i' for individual packages.  A
> little tedious.  But making some progress.  I am going to try to get
> perl completely up to date.  That hopefully will fix the sig segv
> problem.

# dpkg -l | awk '$2~/-perl/{print$2}' | wc -l
374

I scripted a quick command line for loop to download using apt-get
(apt-get download foo) and then install it (dpkg -i foo) and walked
through all of the perl packages.  That took some machine time to
complete but I could let it run without my interaction to slow it
down.  After that the segfault problem was gone.  Yay!  Then it was
off to 'apt-get -f install' to fix the rest of things.  A few other
fixes and the next set of things are just normal Sid upgrade issues.

Those hints set me on the path to success.

Thanks!
Bob


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Re: Getting Postfix to sort spam into different folders

[Gregory Nowak]

On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 05:17:53PM +0200, Robin Kipp wrote:
> So, now that spamassassin is flagging junk mail, I really would like a way of 
> having said junk sorted into a different folder for each user. I'm aware this 
> can also be done on the MUA side, but on some end-user devices (such as 
> smartphones), junkmail filtering is often not supported very unfortunately.
> So, I was just wondering… Is there any way I could do this on the server side?
> My main problem really is that I'm not sure where I'd best set this up - but 
> I'm guessing I'd have to do it in Postfix, as I use the 'virtual' local 
> delivery agent to drop incoming mail into the appropriate directories. Also, 
> the mailboxes are stored in maildir format if that makes any difference…
> If anyone has anything like this working or could point me in the right 
> direction I would greatly appreciate that!
> Many thanks :-)

I have what you describe going also using postfix, and maildrop for
filtering. The relevent part of my /etc/postfix/main.cf reads:

virtual_mailbox_domains = example.com
virtual_mailbox_base = /var/mail/vhosts
virtual_mailbox_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/vmailbox
virtual_minimum_uid = 100
virtual_uid_maps = static:5000
virtual_gid_maps = static:5000
maildrop_destination_recipient_limit = 1
virtual_transport = maildrop
virtual_mailbox_limit = 0

In my /etc/postfix/master.cf I have:

# maildrop. See the Postfix MAILDROP_README file for details.
# Also specify in main.cf: maildrop_destination_recipient_limit=1
#
maildrop  unix  -   n   n   -   -   pipe
  flags=DRhu user=vhosts argv=/usr/bin/maildrop
# /var/mail/vhosts/maildrop_filters/${domain}/${mailbox}

My /etc/postfix/vmailbox reads:

i...@example.comna

Don't forget to run:

postmap vmailbox
postfix reload

when you're ready to go live with this setup.
All of the above so far was configured with the help of
/usr/share/doc/postfix with the postfix-doc package installed, and
with the help of the postfix man pages. I might also have used
/usr/share/doc/postfix-doc/examples, but I don't remember if I
actually did or not.

Next, I created a user called vhosts and a group called vhosts. Both
the uid and gid are 5000. Both the uid and gid must match what you
have in /etc/postfix/main.cf. The home directory of vhosts is of
course /var/mail/vhosts, which must also match in
/etc/postfix/main.cf.

Ok. The below is partly from postfix documentation, partly from
maildrop documentation, and partly from the web. In /var/mail/vhosts I
have the following:

example.com, which is a directory (more on that below)
maildrop_filters which is a directory (more on that below)
spamass_domain_list, which is a text file (more on that below)

I'll explain the above one by one. In the directory called example.com
I have a typical maildir called info for the user
i...@example.com. This maildir has another maildir inside it called
.Spam/ which as you might guess is where all the spam mail goes.

Let's move on to the maildrop_filters directory. In this directory, I
have another directory called example.com. In this example.com
directory, I have a file called ... you guessed it ... info. This info
file reads:

DEFAULT="$HOME/example.com/info/"
xfilter "/usr/bin/spamc"
if (/^X-Spam-Flag: YES/:h || /^X-Spam-Status: Yes/:h)
{
  to "$DEFAULT/.Spam/"
}
 
These are the instructions used by maildrop to put ham in info/, and
spam in info/.Spam/ based on the message headers.

Finally, the text file spamass_domain_list reads:

example.com

This file contains all the domains to be checked for ham/spam by the
script I'll describe below.

In /etc/cron.daily, I have a script called spam_script. I found this
script on the web, and modified it as needed. I don't remember where I
found it at, but a web search should yield that info probably
easily. The script reads:

#!/bin/bash
#
# Script to learn spam using sa-learn. Just edit the default names of
#your
# spam folder using the variables
# below.
#

SPAM_FOLDER=.Spam

#
#


DOMAIN_LIST=`cat /var/mail/vhosts/spamass_domain_list`
SALEARN=`which sa-learn`
LEARN_SPAM="$SALEARN --dbpath /var/mail/vhosts/.spamassassin --no-sync
--spam"
LEARN_HAM="$SALEARN --dbpath /var/mail/vhosts/.spamassassin --no-sync
--ham"
VPOPMAIL_HOME=/var/mail/vhosts

for DOMAIN in $DOMAIN_LIST; do

DOMAIN_USERS="`ls /var/mail/vhosts/$DOMAIN/
--ignore=postmaster`"

for USER in $DOMAIN_USERS; do

$LEARN_SPAM $VPOPMAIL_HOME/$DOMAIN/$USER/$SPAM_FOLDER/cur

$LEARN_HAM $VPOPMAIL_HOME/$DOMAIN/$USER/cur

done

done

$SALEARN --dbpath /var/mail/vhosts/.spamassassin --sync
/usr/local/sbin/spam_fix
 
I see some of the lines wrapped when I pasted it. So, you'll want to
fix those.
The spam_fix script was written by me. It fixes ownership which gets
changed when salearn is run. The spam_fix script reads:

#!/bin/sh
# script to fix ownership for spamassassin files
chown vhosts ~vhosts/.spa

Re: Getting Postfix to sort spam into different folders

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/2/2013 10:17 AM, Robin Kipp wrote:
> Hi all,
> I've been running my own mail server for a while (Postfix as the MTA and 
> Dovecot for retrieving mail via IMAP).
> Yesterday, I added amavis-new for content filtering, and so far have 
> implemented spam checking using spamassassin and virus filtering using clamav.
> All this appears to be working well - if anyone has some time to spare, feel 
> free to check the header of this message - if there are any things that could 
> be improved, I certainly would appreciate any feedback! :-)
> So, now that spamassassin is flagging junk mail, I really would like a way of 
> having said junk sorted into a different folder for each user. I'm aware this 
> can also be done on the MUA side, but on some end-user devices (such as 
> smartphones), junkmail filtering is often not supported very unfortunately.
> So, I was just wondering… Is there any way I could do this on the server side?
> My main problem really is that I'm not sure where I'd best set this up - but 
> I'm guessing I'd have to do it in Postfix, as I use the 'virtual' local 
> delivery agent to drop incoming mail into the appropriate directories. Also, 
> the mailboxes are stored in maildir format if that makes any difference…
> If anyone has anything like this working or could point me in the right 
> direction I would greatly appreciate that!
> Many thanks :-)
> Robin

Dovecot includes the sieve language for sorting.  Per user, you'd have a
.dovecot.sieve file in the home directory, containing something like:

/home/stan/.dovecot.sieve

require "fileinto";

if false {}

elsif header :contains "X-Spam-Flag" "YES" {
fileinto "Spam";
stop;
}
...

This will move the flagged messages into the user's IMAP folder named
"Spam".

You must use Dovecot LDA or LMTP for delivery if you want to use sieve.
 The advantage of using sieve vs procmail, maildrop, etc, is that
Dovecot LDA/LMTP index the messages during the delivery phase.  If you
use procmail/maildrop then Dovecot doesn't index messages until you open
the mailbox, which is slower.

You can also use Managesieve which allows users to create their own
filter rules.  It is also possible to have a global sieve file for all
users, for thing such as spam sorting, and individual user defined sieve
rules simultaneously.

-- 
Stan


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Re: Building computer

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/2/2013 8:23 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 03:59:15AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote:
>> This will really throw you for a loop.  Open a shell window and execute
>>
>> ~$ sudo echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
> 
> She'll probably get 'Permission denied', you need elevated permissions
> for the writing process, which in this case is the outer shell. Try
> instead
> 
>   $ sudo sh -c "echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches"

Thanks for the tip Jonathan.  I never use sudo, so I was winging it a
bit.  And I wasn't about to instruct her to login as root or su to root...

-- 
Stan



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VLC freezes system

[Anubhav Yadav]

Hi list, 

Recently whenever I open some videos in vlc, debian freezes, I cannot
even switch to tty1 and all I have to do is restart the system. 

I see that I have VLC media player 2.0.3 Twoflower (revision
2.0.2-93-g77aa89e) installed in debian,

I tried installing the latest VLC (2.1.0) from the backports repository
apt-get -t wheezy-backports install vlc

but is says that VLC is installed to the latest version.

Any help?
-- 
Regards, 
Anubhav Yadav,
Computer Engineering Final Year Student,
Imperial College of Engineering and Research,
Pune.


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Re: VLC freezes system

[Kailash]

On Thursday 03 October 2013 09:37 AM, Anubhav Yadav wrote:
> Hi list, 
> 
> Recently whenever I open some videos in vlc, debian freezes, I cannot
> even switch to tty1 and all I have to do is restart the system. 
> 
> I see that I have VLC media player 2.0.3 Twoflower (revision
> 2.0.2-93-g77aa89e) installed in debian,
> 
> I tried installing the latest VLC (2.1.0) from the backports repository
> apt-get -t wheezy-backports install vlc
> 
> but is says that VLC is installed to the latest version.
> 
> Any help?
> 
Have you looked at any of the logs? Messages? Kernel?
I recently had some crashes on my desktop and when nothing showed up on
the logs, I ran the memtest. Turns out that one of the RAM chips is out.

Sincerely,
Kailash


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Re: Building computer

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/2/2013 9:42 AM, Rhiamom wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 2, 2013, at 4:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner  wrote
>>
>> This is the limiting factor.  And this is why I implore people to buy
>> the fastest dual core and forgo the quad, six, eight core models.  And
>> in fact, for non gamer daily use, I recommend the single core AMD
>> Sempron, because a dual core is wasted with Firefox, Thunderbird, Flash,
>> Adobe Reader, etc.
>>
>> I failed to make a convincing case before you purchased Catherine.  But
>> at least you'll now be armed with this information when you make your
>> next purchase.  Financially it's not a huge deal, maybe $50 more in this
>> case, 10% of the system price, for the quad core.  But two cores will
>> forever be wasted, and that $50 could have gone toward the discrete GPU
>> you need.
> 
> I never suggested you were not correct about the CPU.  I observed the lack 
> of utilization of multiple cores on my first dual-core machine in 2006. I got 
> The Haswell for the speed, lower power consumption, and presumably less 
> heat generation. And possible resale value later on.
>>
>>
>> This was my mistake for not asking point blank early in the thread what
>> res you were running instead of making assumptions based on your retired
>> status.  If I had asked more questions up front we could have avoided
>> the contention.  For that I apologize.
> 
> No apology needed. You did in fact peg my age correctly; I will be 61 next
> month. And I too have known people who run less than the native resolution 
> to make the fonts bigger. When I get to that point, though, I will simply 
> increase 
> the font size so I don't get jaggies and blurry letters. Right now my eyes 
> need 
> the sharpness of the image, not a size increase. 

I'm lucky so far.  In my early 40s and never needed glasses.  Though I
have noticed recently I must hold fine print further away to read it,
such as product warning labels, the two paragraphs of exclusions on the
phone/cable teaser rate flyers, etc.  No issues with native res yet,
thankfully.

>> You would be correct if the number you're looking at reflected
>> application memory usage.  But it doesn't.  On any of the modern
>> operating systems one must damn near be a computer scientist to see the
>> actual memory usage.  The 5.22GB, this is on Debian, yes?  The system
>> monitor?  This reports process and cache memory usage.  The buffer/cache
>> will literally eat nearly all available memory all the time on Linux,
>> then free some when an application process needs it.  I've never used
>> OSX but it's probably similar in its desktop reporting tool.
> 
> This was in OS X. The memory use would be similar in Debian, I assume. About

A Wheezy desktop install isn't going to eat nearly as much RAM as
desktop OSX, as there are far fewer service daemons loaded at startup.

> a quarter of the used memory was "inactive" which I assume was the cache. 
> Still

I'd guess that quarter is what has been paged to disk, not the cache.
If you had no applications running, just the desktop and background
processes, that shouldn't eat anywhere near 3.5GB.  I'd think the cache
is in what's left, not in the "inactive".

> too close for comfort for me, as WoW was not running, nor ventrilo, and WoW 
> does background downloads of the almost-weekly patches while you play, so 
> even 
> more processes.
>
>> This will really throw you for a loop.  Open a shell window and execute
>>
>> ~$ sudo echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
>>
>> Wait a few seconds and see what happens to that 5.22GB number.  Then
>> report back what you find.  You can do this while playing WOW as well.
>> That number will drop like a rock and WOW will keep on going, because
>> the memory you're freeing with that command is cache.  And again, Linux
>> will eat nearly all RAM for cache if the system is up long enough.
> 
> It is the nature of *nix to gobble up memory, yes. It will use what is there 
> whether it needs it or not.  

Yes, the memory is used for block caching.  The reason this is done is
because the cost to drop cached lines is minimal when the memory is
needed by an active process.  So instead of "wasting" memory, Linux in
particular, caches just about every block.

> But my Debian box has not arrived yet, so I can't
> run that command there. I could try it in terminal on my iMac, and it would 
> probably work. 

This won't work on OSX.  The /proc/sys/vm/ parameters in Linux are
unique to Linux.

>>> I do thank you for the advice pertaining to a 384 bit bus and a gig more
>>> video ram than I was planning to get. That is advice that I will be
>>> following.
>>
>> You're welcome.  Keep in mind that at 2560x1440 the 7950/7970 may still
>> not be fast enough for full detail in WOW with GPU settings on high.
>> The extra GB of VRAM won't get utilized but you need the memory
>> bandwidth of a 384bit bus.  Nobody sells, AFAICT, a 2GB model using
>> these GPUs.
>>
>> I can't tell you where the setting resides, or if you have to edit
>> xorg.co

Re: Re (2): autostarting a terminal.

[Pontus Goffe]

2013-10-03 00:57, peasth...@shaw.ca skrev:

your issue looks similar to this:
   
http://superuser.com/questions/593246/launching-a-shell-script-via-desktop-in-raspbian-wheezy



And what if the shellscript needs to be prefixed with sudo?
I have tried the below, both runs sudo which asks for password but 
/home/me/test.sh is not being executed

Exec=lxterminal --command "sudo /home/me/test.sh"
Exec=lxterminal --command "sudo bash /home/me/test.sh"
//PG


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Default directory to put ".mo" file (language)

[Beco]

Hi mentors,

Please,

Would I better use

/usr/share/locale

or

/usr/local/share/locale


I'm programming an old game (from the 8 bits times). I'm starting with
this because I got a suggestion on debian-user-list that starting with
a library to learn packaging would be too hard.

Now, this game is just plain console, text. A RPG you play typing commands.
I'm doing the translation, and soon you will be able to play the best
game ported to linux ever! :)

So, don't assume I know packaging yet. I'm just trying to make my life
easier when packaging comes.

What would be the correct directory to put the translated/compiled
files ".mo" (from msgfmt command)?


And if you please, where would the game binary be installed ultimately?

Thanks,
Beco










-- 
Dr Beco
A.I. researcher

"Sometimes the heart sees what is invisible to the eye." (H. Jackson Brown Jr.)


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Re: Default directory to put ".mo" file (language)

[Beco]

On 3 October 2013 02:49, Beco  wrote:
> Hi mentors,
>
> Please,
>
> Would I better use
>
> /usr/share/locale
>
> or
>
> /usr/local/share/locale
>
>
> I'm programming an old game (from the 8 bits times). I'm starting with
> this because I got a suggestion on debian-user-list that starting with
> a library to learn packaging would be too hard.
>
> Now, this game is just plain console, text. A RPG you play typing commands.
> I'm doing the translation, and soon you will be able to play the best
> game ported to linux ever! :)
>
> So, don't assume I know packaging yet. I'm just trying to make my life
> easier when packaging comes.
>
> What would be the correct directory to put the translated/compiled
> files ".mo" (from msgfmt command)?
>
>
> And if you please, where would the game binary be installed ultimately?
>
> Thanks,
> Beco
>
>


Hi debians,

This message was supposed to go to mentors.

Now I better wait here for some answers instead of resending it to the
other list.

Sorry the confusion.

Thanks any help,
Beco.


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