Re: Advice on system purchase

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/30/2012 8:05 AM, John Hasler wrote:
> Stan Hoeppner writes:
>> At this point in time, and in the foreseeable, the only way to crack
>> into the desktop market is with a new x86 chip that has sufficiently
>> compelling advantages over both Intel and AMD.  And since one must
>> have a license from Intel to do so, that ain't gonna happen.
> 
> There is no intellectual property protection for instruction sets.  If
> there was you can be sure that Amdahl would never have shipped a single
> computer.

I didn't mention ISAs.  But since you did, note there is much more to
processor compatibility than simply implementing the ISA in a clean
design.  Some instructions require a specific circuit design, which is
patentable, for example mode switching instructions.  And you can't copy
the microcode which is covered by copyright.  Etc, etc.

Let me know when you're tired of me schooling you. ;)

-- 
Stan


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 31 October 2012 03:23:42 lee wrote:
> Chris Bannister  writes:
> > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 09:06:37PM +0100, lee wrote:
> >> Tom H  writes:
> >> > Andrei called d-m.o deprecated because, AFAIK, most of the packages in
> >> > d-m.o are now available in d.o.
> >>
> >> Cinelerra is not in Debian, and I haven't been able to compile it, so
> >> the only source for it is dmo.  You can't even watch a DVD with what's
> >> in Debian.
> >
> > Are you referring to libdvdcss2? AFAIUI, there is an ITP out to package
> > an installer for it. ... ahh here it is:
> > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=687624
>
> Yes, and it's still not in Debian testing, besides other software.  Just
> saying that everything is deprecated isn't a solution; it only means
> that Debian is deprecated.

You seem to be very unhappy with Debian.  Why _are_ you still using it?  You 
could save your data and install something else.  And granted that you would 
have to set it up from scratch, at least you wouldn't have to cope with 
something you find as irritating as you do Debian and the way you see it as 
going.

Lisi


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[Jochen Spieker]

lee:
> Andrei POPESCU  writes:
> 
>> Firstly, you could have specified that instead of broad statements like 
>> "32 bit support has been removed from Debian". Debian is much more than 
>> the amd64 architecture.
> 
> That is what 32bit support is about.

No. First and foremost, 32 Bit support is about supporting 32 Bit
hardware.

>> Secondly, so far you have not provided any evidence to this.
> 
> Just try it and you'll see.

Works for me. But then I don't use nVidia drivers.

> nobody knows.  I've sent a bug report and it has been ignored.  People
> suggested that we're now forced to switch to brokenarch and to use
> packages from unstable, which I tried a couple times, and it made things
> worse and didn't work and creates dependency problems.

What do you expect when using testing/unstable? Their sole purpose is to
find and fix bugs. If you use it, expect to find bugs.

Really, I can understand if people are a little upset that the
transition (in testing/unstable) to multiarch breaks a few things. And I
am not happy myself that it looks like wheezy will not include a smooth
transition. But that does not mean multiarch is generally broken and
that Debian should keep distributing monstrosities like ia32-libs.

> And it's certainly no fun that Debian becomes more and more like
> windoze in being unreliable, in telling you what software and drivers
> you can or should use and some other things.

Debian as a whole never cared very much for non-free software. This
should not surprise you.

> Maybe I need to switch to windoze […]

Sure, if that helps.

J.
-- 
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plastic.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


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Re: Advice on system purchase

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/30/2012 12:02 PM, Celejar wrote:

> As I have said, I don't have a deep understanding of these issues, but
> one apparent flaw in your argument is that IBM, Motorola and DEC
> weren't moving billions of their chips independently of their push into
> the desktop market, as ARM is.

What's fundamentally flawed is your (lack of) analysis and your
conclusion.  You're looking at absolute numbers and you can't do that.
You must look at market share percentage.  ARM based chips may ship in
2B/year quantity today but the overall market is dozens of billions.  In
the mid 1990s, the period regarded, IBM and Motorola chips each had a
market share equal to or greater than ARM chips today.

More importantly, both were already shipping chips into desktops at that
time in decent numbers, into Macs and a half dozen brands of PREP/CHIRP
platforms running Windows NT.  There are zero ARM chips in desktops
today.  Ergo, they were in a good position to succeed on the desktop.
Yet they both failed, PREP/CHIRP much sooner than Mac, which only
recently switched to Intel.

In the case of PREP/CHIRP PowerPC desktops, they failed in the
marketplace because ISVs didn't come on board and ship binaries for PPC
as they did for x86.

So again, ARM will never reach the desktop, nor succeed, without full
ISV support.  Which, as I stated previously, is why ARM will only have a
chance on the desktop if the consumer conditions are right to launch an
Android based "PC appliance".  This will provide the same interface from
smartphone to tablet to living room PC.  Success will have nothing to do
with numbers of chips shipped, but with consumer acceptance, which is
the case with any product.

-- 
Stan


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Re: Advice on system purchase

[Jochen Spieker]

Stan Hoeppner:
> 
> So again, ARM will never reach the desktop, nor succeed, without full
> ISV support.  Which, as I stated previously, is why ARM will only have a
> chance on the desktop if the consumer conditions are right to launch an
> Android based "PC appliance".  This will provide the same interface from
> smartphone to tablet to living room PC.

Not completely accurate. The first ARM machines you are describing are
already available (Samsung XE303C12), but they run Chrome OS instead of
Android. ;-)

J.
-- 
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Re: how to prevent dvd drives from being polled

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 03:25:18AM +0100, lee wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> how do I prevent the dvd drives from being polled by udisks-daemon?  I
> can kill the process and it becomes a zombie, and I'd rather get rid of
> it.
> 
> This polling is something I really don't need or want!  What else like
> this is going on, and how do I disable it?

According to the man page[1], it should be as simple as (!) adding a
property to the device using a udev rule.


[1]
http://manpages.debian.net/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=udisks&apropos=0&sektion=7&manpath=Debian+6.0+squeeze&format=html&locale=en



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Re: compiling a Debian package

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 04:23:42AM +0100, lee wrote:
> Chris Bannister  writes:
> 
> > On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 09:06:37PM +0100, lee wrote:
> >> Tom H  writes:
> >> 
> >> > Andrei called d-m.o deprecated because, AFAIK, most of the packages in
> >> > d-m.o are now available in d.o.
> >> 
> >> Cinelerra is not in Debian, and I haven't been able to compile it, so
> >> the only source for it is dmo.  You can't even watch a DVD with what's
> >> in Debian.
> >
> > Are you referring to libdvdcss2? AFAIUI, there is an ITP out to package
> > an installer for it. ... ahh here it is:
> > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=687624
> 
> Yes, and it's still not in Debian testing, besides other software.  Just
> saying that everything is deprecated isn't a solution; it only means
> that Debian is deprecated.

There's a legal reason for that. The DMCA states that, in US
jurisdictions, one is not permitted to circumvent an access-control
technology such as CSS (the Content Scrambling System employed on most
DVDs). The authorised method for decoding a DVD is to obtain a CSS
decryption key from the DVD Copy Control Association. Obviously, this is
kind of counter to the whole open-source philosophy; if Debian had a
project-wide key, anyone would be able to obtain it from the source code
and thus decrypt any DVD, thus bypassing the access-control and the DVD
Copy Control Association.

libdvdcss2 brute forces the decryption on the disk and, so, might be
considered circumvention under the DMCA. This IS allowed in some cases
and in various other jurisdictions, but it's not really a sensible move
for Debian to freely distribute such a package.

I'm sure this has been discussed to death on debian-legal.



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How to generate lid close ACPI event ?

[J. B]

Hello list,

Is there any way to 

[1] generate an event for laptop lid close 
[2] fake battery percentage   ?

I need this to debug my laptop-mode tools.

Thanks


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Re: Advice on system purchase

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/30/2012 11:58 AM, Celejar wrote:

>> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/30/amd_to_partner_with_arm_for_server_cpus/
> 
> Just saw that, too:

Do note that the SeaMicro acquisition was announced in March.  Before
the acquisition every SeaMicro product used Intel chips, from hot
running Xeons to low power Atoms.

AMD is reworking the entire product line from top to bottom replacing
the Intel chips, for the big obvious reason: they're Intel chips.

AMD does not have (although they could build) a chip comparable to the
Atom in performance/watt.  The decision to use ARM to replace Atom is
not based on any "strategic vision" or epiphany.  It's very simple:

"We can't use Atom any longer.  What else is available with great
performance/watt, that's really cheap per chip?  Duh, ARM."

That's exactly how the decision was made.  Then they gave it to the
marketing folks who have done a great job on a few list members. ;)

> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2411546,00.asp
> 
> Although to be fair, Stan was talking about desktops, and this is about
> servers.

If it ever gets off the ground.  The super high density application
sever space within the sever market is small, specialized, and the
requirement for x86 pervasive.  If this weren't true we'd already see 8
socket 32-way 1U ARM servers on the market, and we don't.  We don't see
any ARM servers.  I doubt AMD will sell many of the ARM based blades.

At some point AMD will drop the ARM idea.  Then, if they smarten up,
they'll move the non-APU AthlonII x4 core to 32nm, bin sort and clock
down some chips to 1.6-2GHz to get TDP down to 20-25 watts--not as low
as Atom, but much more powerful.  The rest they'll clock at 3.6-4.8GHz
(plus turbo) and sell them as faster version of the current non-APU AII x4.

Simultaneously they'll begin producing the Regor x2 core on the 32nm
process, bin sort and clock down units that can hit 10-15 watts at
1.6-2.4GHz, clock the rest at 3.8-5GHz (plus turbo) for sale as desktop
AthlonII x2 chips.

For those who are surely scratching heads about now, the reason for
using the no L3 Regor design vs the 4MB L3 Opteron HE "server processor"
or PhenomII x4 is power consumption vs performance.  The 4MB L3 cache is
about 1/2 the transistor budget.  Eliminating it saves ~50% on power
consumption and thus thermal output.  And the applications typically run
on such mass "web" cluster systems don't tend to benefit significantly
from L3.

But none of this will happen because AMD is running in panic mode with
the ATI acquisition being a financial failure, the stock tanking, and
the new CEO dreaming big ideas in an attempt to excite the analysts and
investors...

-- 
Stan


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[Andrei POPESCU]

On Mi, 31 oct 12, 04:13:59, lee wrote:
> 
> Just try it and you'll see.  Or you figure out how to do it and let me
> know.  Like I said, it worked, then there was an update and it doesn't
> work anymore, probably because they modified the NVIDIA drivers, though
> nobody knows.  I've sent a bug report and it has been ignored.

And the bug number is? (Yes, I already did look for it)

> People
> suggested that we're now forced to switch to brokenarch and to use
> packages from unstable, which I tried a couple times, and it made things
> worse and didn't work and creates dependency problems.

There's a famous quote from our current president from the time when he 
was still the mayor of our capital[1], which I'll paraphrase to you:

testing is not stable ;)

[1] "Iarna nu-i ca vara", which translates to: "Winter is not like 
summer".

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Advice on system purchase

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/30/2012 10:44 PM, Charles Kroeger wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 23:50:02 +0100
> Stan Hoeppner  wrote:
> 
>> If enough people buy AMD then Intel has a strong competitor.  This keeps
>> the marketplace healthy and keeps Chipzilla from becoming a total
>> monopoly WRT x86.
> 
> Thanks for your ecologically sound hardware suggestions you generously share 
> with
> this group. I feel you have no peer in this matter. Your information saves 
> hours of
> of comparative research and not always correct interpretive comprehension of 
> the
> research.
> 
> I always paste these suggestions you make (with a date) on a special page in 
> my Zim
> Desktop Wiki.
> 
> Good stuff

Well thanks Charles.  My opinion above comes with a caveat of sorts.  If
the day arrives that AMD starts producing CPUs that are all junk, I
won't buy and won't recommend them, in spite of the ecosystem logic
above.  If that ever comes to pass, I won't need to say a word.  People
will have already stopped buying AMD and Chipzilla will inherit the
entire market.

Right now AMD still makes very competitive CPUs.  Not as fast in the
current generation, but cheaper and good enough.

Now if they'd just smarten up and build a Regor based socket AM3+ dual
core chip with 2MB L2 per core on 32nm, work with the foundry and tweak
the design, they'd have a low wattage 5+GHz chip that would smoke
everything in most benchmarks and real applications, because most still
don't thread effectively beyond a single core, and few beyond two cores.

But again, AMD as Intel, have spent half a decade convincing consumers
that they need all the cores they can afford.  I guess they'd rather
avoid "perjuring" themselves than selling a better chip.

-- 
Stan


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Re: Advice on system purchase

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/31/2012 4:48 AM, Jochen Spieker wrote:
> Stan Hoeppner:
>>
>> So again, ARM will never reach the desktop, nor succeed, without full
>> ISV support.  Which, as I stated previously, is why ARM will only have a
>> chance on the desktop if the consumer conditions are right to launch an
>> Android based "PC appliance".  This will provide the same interface from
>> smartphone to tablet to living room PC.
> 
> Not completely accurate. The first ARM machines you are describing are
> already available (Samsung XE303C12), but they run Chrome OS instead of
> Android. ;-)

Actually I was, and am, completely accurate.

1.  This device appears to be little more than a large netbook, all the
software runs in the browser, and it appears all add-on software must
come from Google, at least for now.

2.  Sole source is the opposite of "ISV support"

3.  One product in the market doesn't equal penetration or success

You could have made the same case with netbooks running Windows CE,
Mobile, or whatever the recent version is called.  They predate this
device by at least a year or two.  And AFAIK they run apps independently
of the browser, making them much more "desktop PC" like.  My knowledge
of them is limited as I find them to be a useless fad gadget, and have
thus never owned one.

An ARM based laptop style device with a quasi full sized keyboard is a
step in the right direction.  Maybe this device might one day evolve
into something more like the "PC appliance" I described, or even a full
fledged desktop PC.

-- 
Stan


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printer raw device name on Wheezy?

[Gary Dale]

I'm trying to use escputil on Wheezy to check ink levels on my (usb) 
R300. However, the usual suspects for raw devices don't exist. I don't 
have a /dev/lp? or /dev/usb/lp? device. The printer works OK, but how do 
I find the actual raw device name?



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Re: compiling a Debian package

[John Hasler]

Darac Marjal writes:
> libdvdcss2 brute forces the decryption on the disk and, so, might be
> considered circumvention under the DMCA. This IS allowed in some
> cases...

It is legal to use it to access a DVD you own in the USA as long as you
make no infringing copies.  The problem is that the CCA contends that
the primary purpose of libdvdcss2 is circumvention and so, they contend,
distributing it is illegal.  If it can be established that its primary
purpose in not copyright infringement it will be legal.  That has not
yet been done so Debian cannot risk distributing it.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: motion: problem finding codec

[H.S.]

On 10/30/2012 10:05 PM, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 09:12:45PM -0400, H.S. wrote:
>> On 10/21/2012 08:12 AM, Chris Bannister wrote:
>>> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 10:12:45PM -0400, H.S. wrote:

 Here is what appears to have changed since my last night's upgrade:

 [UPGRADE] ffmpeg:amd64 7:0.11.1-dmo5 -> 7:1.0-dmo1
 [UPGRADE] gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg:amd64 0.10.13-5 -> 1:0.10.13-dmo1
 [UPGRADE] libxine2-ffmpeg:amd64 1.2.2-4 -> 1:1.2.2-dmo3
 [UPGRADE] libavcodec54:amd64 7:0.11.1-dmo5 -> 7:1.0-dmo1
 [UPGRADE] libavdevice54:amd64 7:0.11.1-dmo5 -> 7:1.0-dmo1
 [UPGRADE] libavformat54:amd64 7:0.11.1-dmo5 -> 7:1.0-dmo1
 [UPGRADE] libavutil51:amd64 7:0.11.1-dmo5 -> 7:1.0-dmo1

 Could this have broken motion?
>>>
>>> You said something "out of the blue" stopped motion working, when in
>>> fact it was an upgrade. 

As you should have noticed, that is not my original post. The phrase you
are have repeated in the above quote was before the OP in time and I
have explained how it occurred. Starting right after the original post,
I have explained the sequence of events as I traced back my steps and
knew more. What else do you want me to do, go back in time and fix the
initial report? Sigh!


> 
> Debian doesn't accept bug reports for third party software. 

Your reasoning for this statement appears to be that you somehow have
evidence that the bug is in fact not in any debian package at all. What
made you to make the conclusion?

As far as I am concerned, at least for me it is premature to decide (as
I see, a premature statement can incite quite strong reactions from some
here, re. "out of the blue"). It is also likely that the bug is in fact
in the debian package, motion, that has been triggered by the third party.

So, thanks for your suggestions and sorry for any trouble.

-- 

Please reply to this list only. I read this list on its corresponding
newsgroup on gmane.org. Replies sent to my email address are just
filtered to a folder in my mailbox and get periodically deleted without
ever having been read.


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[lee]

Andrei POPESCU  writes:

> On Mi, 31 oct 12, 04:13:59, lee wrote:
>> 
>> Just try it and you'll see.  Or you figure out how to do it and let me
>> know.  Like I said, it worked, then there was an update and it doesn't
>> work anymore, probably because they modified the NVIDIA drivers, though
>> nobody knows.  I've sent a bug report and it has been ignored.
>
> And the bug number is? (Yes, I already did look for it)

688714

>> People
>> suggested that we're now forced to switch to brokenarch and to use
>> packages from unstable, which I tried a couple times, and it made things
>> worse and didn't work and creates dependency problems.
>
> There's a famous quote from our current president from the time when he 
> was still the mayor of our capital[1], which I'll paraphrase to you:
>
> testing is not stable ;)

Yeah and that's why you are forced to turn your system into a mess with
brokenarch and are supposed to try packages from unstable which create
only more dependency problems and mess things up even further.

Think it through and you'll see that there won't be a next stable
release unless they fix the mess they made --- and they're not going to
do that.  Stable is obsolete and deprecated.


-- 
Debian testing iad96 brokenarch


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[lee]

Jochen Spieker  writes:

> lee:
>> Andrei POPESCU  writes:
>> 
>>> Firstly, you could have specified that instead of broad statements like 
>>> "32 bit support has been removed from Debian". Debian is much more than 
>>> the amd64 architecture.
>> 
>> That is what 32bit support is about.
>
> No. First and foremost, 32 Bit support is about supporting 32 Bit
> hardware.

Do you still buy 32bit CPUs?

>>> Secondly, so far you have not provided any evidence to this.
>> 
>> Just try it and you'll see.
>
> Works for me. But then I don't use nVidia drivers.

Without them, I can't run the application.  What actually causes the
problem is still unknown.

>> nobody knows.  I've sent a bug report and it has been ignored.  People
>> suggested that we're now forced to switch to brokenarch and to use
>> packages from unstable, which I tried a couple times, and it made things
>> worse and didn't work and creates dependency problems.
>
> What do you expect when using testing/unstable? Their sole purpose is to
> find and fix bugs. If you use it, expect to find bugs.

Testing has been sufficiently stable to use it for the last 12 years.
And what choice do you have?  NVIDIA drivers in stable are so ancient
you can't really use them anymore, and even in testing, some packages
are too old to still use them.

> Really, I can understand if people are a little upset that the
> transition (in testing/unstable) to multiarch breaks a few things. And I
> am not happy myself that it looks like wheezy will not include a smooth
> transition. But that does not mean multiarch is generally broken and
> that Debian should keep distributing monstrosities like ia32-libs.

I'm not only a little upset but majorly pissed.  Breaking things like
that is what experimental and maybe unstable are for, testing is not.
That they decide to force users to brokenarch just before a new release
is supposed to come out which will leave users who need 32bit support
screwed because it won't be fixed for that release is a very bad idea.

There hasn't been anything wrong with ia32-libs.  When they want to
enforce sucking brokenarch, they should have either waited until after
the next release or get it ready before the next release and give users
detailed instructions so that they can switch without problems.

>> And it's certainly no fun that Debian becomes more and more like
>> windoze in being unreliable, in telling you what software and drivers
>> you can or should use and some other things.
>
> Debian as a whole never cared very much for non-free software. This
> should not surprise you.

That is a different issue.  The attitude of developers has changed from
"we want to make things work" to "we don't care and everything we don't
like is deprecated and if you don't do as we say and/or want things to
work, you're screwed".  It makes Linux deprecated.

>> Maybe I need to switch to windoze […]
>
> Sure, if that helps.

I doubt that it will work --- if it would, it would be an advantage.  I
need a trial version.


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[lee]

Lisi Reisz  writes:

> You seem to be very unhappy with Debian.  Why _are_ you still using
> it?

It's because I haven't found an alternative yet, and it's very time
consuming to switch.

> You could save your data and install something else.

Yes, but what?

> And granted that you would have to set it up from scratch,

Not if I switch to another Linux distribution --- and I'm not so sure if
that's a good idea.

> at least you wouldn't have to cope with something you find as
> irritating as you do Debian and the way you see it as going.

It might not only be Debian.  Perhaps it's just stupid not to use
windoze.  I might try gentoo, but it's probably not much different.


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[lee]

Darac Marjal  writes:

> libdvdcss2 brute forces the decryption on the disk and, so, might be
> considered circumvention under the DMCA. This IS allowed in some cases
> and in various other jurisdictions, but it's not really a sensible move
> for Debian to freely distribute such a package.

I'm aware that there are legal issues involved.  Are there such issues
with other software that is available only from dmo and not in Debian,
like cinelerra?

It is not illegal to use NVIDIA drivers, yet they are deprecated,
without alternative.  It is probably not illegal to use firmware to get
hardware working that doesn't work without, yet firmware is deprecated,
without alternative.

The obsession with free software unfortunately leads to dead ends.
Apparently even developers now don't want to stay 20 years behind
technology anymore, so they have regressed to deprecate everything
that's not free software to force the issue.  That's probably leading to
a dead end as well, and I don't want to get stuck there.


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Re: how to prevent dvd drives from being polled

[lee]

Darac Marjal  writes:

> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 03:25:18AM +0100, lee wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> how do I prevent the dvd drives from being polled by udisks-daemon?  I
>> can kill the process and it becomes a zombie, and I'd rather get rid of
>> it.
>> 
>> This polling is something I really don't need or want!  What else like
>> this is going on, and how do I disable it?
>
> According to the man page[1], it should be as simple as (!) adding a
> property to the device using a udev rule.

Apparently, yes --- but what rule or property is that?  And how do I
disable it without rebooting?  Udev stuff is a mystery, with
configuration that isn't readable by humans.


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 31 October 2012 14:22:31 lee wrote:
> Lisi Reisz  writes:
> > You seem to be very unhappy with Debian.  Why _are_ you still using
> > it?
>
> It's because I haven't found an alternative yet, and it's very time
> consuming to switch.
>
> > You could save your data and install something else.
>
> Yes, but what?
>
> > And granted that you would have to set it up from scratch,
>
> Not if I switch to another Linux distribution --- and I'm not so sure if
> that's a good idea.
>
> > at least you wouldn't have to cope with something you find as
> > irritating as you do Debian and the way you see it as going.
>
> It might not only be Debian.  Perhaps it's just stupid not to use
> windoze.  I might try gentoo, but it's probably not much different.

I have heard that Windows 7 isn't bad.  You might well prefer it.  At least it 
will have proprietary stuff and drivers for new hardware

It really does seem pointless to stick with Debian if you dislike it so much.

Lisi


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Connecting to printer attached wirelessly to router (MG5320 )

[Sebastian Canagaratna]

Hi: I have a dell laptop using Aptosid. There is a wireless router  and the
computer is working
OK with it. We get DCHP IP address from the router, and so does the
wireless MG5320 printer,
which I am trying to install. The printer works wirelessly on the windows
side. I have tried ipp, http,
Apple protocol with socket://ipaddress of printer ( which I can ping to) .
I have also installed the MG5320.ppd in
/etc/cups/ppd/  but it alsays comes up with printer is busy. I used ipp and
socket://ipaddress with Canon Pixma iP5200R and it
worked. Can somebody give me some hints as to what to try.


Thanks.

Re: compiling a Debian package

[Darac Marjal]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 03:39:04PM +0100, lee wrote:
> Darac Marjal  writes:
> 
> > libdvdcss2 brute forces the decryption on the disk and, so, might be
> > considered circumvention under the DMCA. This IS allowed in some cases
> > and in various other jurisdictions, but it's not really a sensible move
> > for Debian to freely distribute such a package.
> 
> I'm aware that there are legal issues involved.  Are there such issues
> with other software that is available only from dmo and not in Debian,
> like cinelerra?

I'm not familiar with cinelerra but, according to the BTS([1] and [2]),
there have been two^Wseveral attempts to package cinelerra that have
fallen by the wayside. That latter bug seems to suggest that cinelerra
depends on non-free software (so it could, perhaps, go in contrib).

As ever, if you care about this software, consider helping to fix the
remaining issues.

> 
> It is not illegal to use NVIDIA drivers, yet they are deprecated,
> without alternative.  It is probably not illegal to use firmware to get
> hardware working that doesn't work without, yet firmware is deprecated,
> without alternative.

The NVIDIA proprietary drivers are not "deprecated without alternative"
by any means.

1. nvidia-glx is in non-free due to licensing restrictions (NVIDIA state
   at [3] that the "SOFTWARE [...] may be copied and redistributed,
   provided that the binary files thereof are not modified in any way"
   and that Debian "may not [...] attempt in any other matter to obtain
   the source code". So, while it's legal to use the software, it's not
   legal to use the source. Thus, it's a complete black box. There is NO
   way to know that a problem on a system with the NVIDIA driver is not
   caused by that driver.

2. As an alternative there ARE the nouveau and nv drivers. These are
   reported to display desktops on several of the NVIDIA devices but, of
   course, they're reverse-engineered by volunteers so likely don't work
   as well as the driver by the people who actually designed the
   hardware.

So you have two options, use the NVIDIA driver (with the knowledge that
it "may access, collect non-personally identifiable information about,
update, and configure Customer's system in order to properly optimize
such system for use with the SOFTWARE") or use the open driver.

> 
> The obsession with free software unfortunately leads to dead ends.
> Apparently even developers now don't want to stay 20 years behind
> technology anymore, so they have regressed to deprecate everything
> that's not free software to force the issue.  That's probably leading to
> a dead end as well, and I don't want to get stuck there.

What would you have them do otherwise? Nothing (that I'm aware of) in
Debian bans you from using non-free software. There is only the
understanding that support for non-free software is the responsibility
of that software's provider.

Anyway, I feel like I'm feeding a troll here, so I'll just point you to
Debian's Social Contract[4] which describes this better than I can.


[1] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=78209
[2] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=331072
[3] http://www.geforce.com/drivers/license
[4] http://www.debian.org/social_contract


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: how to prevent dvd drives from being polled

[Frank McCormick]

On 31/10/12 10:42 AM, lee wrote:

Darac Marjal  writes:


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 03:25:18AM +0100, lee wrote:

Hi,

how do I prevent the dvd drives from being polled by udisks-daemon?  I
can kill the process and it becomes a zombie, and I'd rather get rid of
it.

This polling is something I really don't need or want!  What else like
this is going on, and how do I disable it?


According to the man page[1], it should be as simple as (!) adding a
property to the device using a udev rule.


Apparently, yes --- but what rule or property is that?  And how do I
disable it without rebooting?  Udev stuff is a mystery, with
configuration that isn't readable by humans.





  Googling the problem turned up this

SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_VENDOR}=="APPLE*", ENV{ID_MODEL}=="SD Card 
Reader*", ENV{UDISKS_DISABLE_POLLING}="1"


Of course you'll have to make changes to match your CD-rom and where to
put the rule is a mystery (to me)...but it should get you started.



--
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Frank


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[John Hasler]

lee writes:
> It is not illegal to use NVIDIA drivers, yet they are deprecated,
> without alternative.  It is probably not illegal to use firmware to
> get hardware working that doesn't work without, yet firmware is
> deprecated, without alternative.

> The obsession with free software unfortunately leads to dead ends.

You clearly do not want to use Debian.  Free Software is what Debian is
about.
-- 
John Hasler


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Re: how to prevent dvd drives from being polled

[Dom]

On 31/10/12 15:48, Frank McCormick wrote:

On 31/10/12 10:42 AM, lee wrote:

Darac Marjal  writes:


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 03:25:18AM +0100, lee wrote:

Hi,

how do I prevent the dvd drives from being polled by udisks-daemon? I
can kill the process and it becomes a zombie, and I'd rather get rid of
it.

This polling is something I really don't need or want! What else like
this is going on, and how do I disable it?


According to the man page[1], it should be as simple as (!) adding a
property to the device using a udev rule.


Apparently, yes --- but what rule or property is that? And how do I
disable it without rebooting? Udev stuff is a mystery, with
configuration that isn't readable by humans.





Googling the problem turned up this

SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_VENDOR}=="APPLE*", ENV{ID_MODEL}=="SD Card
Reader*", ENV{UDISKS_DISABLE_POLLING}="1"

Of course you'll have to make changes to match your CD-rom and where to
put the rule is a mystery (to me)...but it should get you started.


I believe the line should go in a new file called something like
/etc/udev/rules.d/99-local-rules

I haven't had a chance to test it yet
--
Dom


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[Lisi Reisz]

On Wednesday 31 October 2012 15:25:52 Darac Marjal wrote:
> Anyway, I feel like I'm feeding a troll here, so I'll just point you to
> Debian's Social Contract[4] which describes this better than I can

He likes moaning. ;-)  We are suggesting ways of solving his problem, but it 
is more fun to slag off the poor developers who do a great job without pay.

The obvious thing to do if he dislikes Debian so much is to stop using it.  
But that would be no fun because he might have to stop moaning.

And it does rather sound as though he might be better off with Windows.  But 
at whom would he moan in that case?

:-)

Lisi


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[John Hasler]

Lisi writes:
> And it does rather sound as though he might be better off with
> Windows.  But at whom would he moan in that case?

Microsoft, of course, with the advantage that there would be no danger
that they would fix the problems that he moaned about.
-- 
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Re: how to prevent dvd drives from being polled

[Dom]

On 31/10/12 16:13, Dom wrote:

On 31/10/12 15:48, Frank McCormick wrote:

On 31/10/12 10:42 AM, lee wrote:

Darac Marjal  writes:


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 03:25:18AM +0100, lee wrote:

Hi,

how do I prevent the dvd drives from being polled by udisks-daemon? I
can kill the process and it becomes a zombie, and I'd rather get
rid of
it.

This polling is something I really don't need or want! What else like
this is going on, and how do I disable it?


According to the man page[1], it should be as simple as (!) adding a
property to the device using a udev rule.


Apparently, yes --- but what rule or property is that? And how do I
disable it without rebooting? Udev stuff is a mystery, with
configuration that isn't readable by humans.





Googling the problem turned up this

SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_VENDOR}=="APPLE*", ENV{ID_MODEL}=="SD Card
Reader*", ENV{UDISKS_DISABLE_POLLING}="1"

Of course you'll have to make changes to match your CD-rom and where to
put the rule is a mystery (to me)...but it should get you started.


I believe the line should go in a new file called something like
/etc/udev/rules.d/99-local-rules

I haven't had a chance to test it yet


Ok, that file should have been called
/etc/udev/rules.d/99-local.rules

(All rules files must end with .rules)

It looks like the variable gets set for me with
SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_CDROM}=="?*", ENV{UDISKS_DISABLE_POLLING}="1"

as the rule.

However, I can't confirm that this has disabled polling yet.
--
Dom


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Re: compiling a Debian package

[Tom H]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 10:04 AM, lee  wrote:
> Andrei POPESCU  writes:
>> On Mi, 31 oct 12, 04:13:59, lee wrote:
>>>
>>> Just try it and you'll see.  Or you figure out how to do it and let me
>>> know.  Like I said, it worked, then there was an update and it doesn't
>>> work anymore, probably because they modified the NVIDIA drivers, though
>>> nobody knows.  I've sent a bug report and it has been ignored.
>>
>> And the bug number is? (Yes, I already did look for it)
>
> 688714
>
>>> People
>>> suggested that we're now forced to switch to brokenarch and to use
>>> packages from unstable, which I tried a couple times, and it made things
>>> worse and didn't work and creates dependency problems.
>>
>> There's a famous quote from our current president from the time when he
>> was still the mayor of our capital[1], which I'll paraphrase to you:
>>
>> testing is not stable ;)
>
> Yeah and that's why you are forced to turn your system into a mess with
> brokenarch and are supposed to try packages from unstable which create
> only more dependency problems and mess things up even further.
>
> Think it through and you'll see that there won't be a next stable
> release unless they fix the mess they made --- and they're not going to
> do that.  Stable is obsolete and deprecated.

If testing never had any breakage, why would anyone bother with
stable?! Anyone reasonable knows that they have to expect problems
when using a version of ANYTHING that's labeled testing and especially
in this particular case where its sole purpose is to debug the next
version of Debian.

If you consider stable obsolete and are unhappy with testing, maybe
you should try a more fast-moving distribution or a rolling
distribution where there MIGHT be less breakage than in testing.

In this thread and in your bug report, you're more interested in
whining and criticizing than in fixing your system. AFAICT, you've
been advised to install packages from experimental and you haven't.

Furthermore, you may have been having a bad day but, over and above
your misunderstanding of the purpose of testing, your syadmin skills
are suspect since you're not sure whether you need xserver-xorg [1],
uninstall it [2], and are surprised that you have to re-install it [3,4] in
order to run X and they don't inspire confidence that you're up to
running testing.

1. "Libxvmc1 is installed because xserver-xorg-video-openchrome (which
I don't need) depends on it, and xserver-xorg-video-openchrome is
installed because xserver-xorg (which I probably need) depends on it."

2. "BTW I have removed the xserver-org package"

3. "startx says it cannot find /usr/bin/X. It actually doesn't exist
--- has that been moved or what happened to it?"

4. "I found I needed to re-install xserver-xorg"


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Library for publishing services on the network

[Amit]

Hello,

Looking for a C library that I can use for publishing services using
DNS-SD or mDNS or Bonjour/Zeroconf.

The main library is avahi but this brings it a lot of dependencies such
as dbus, etc. that I would prefer not to use.

I have come across the following so far:

 1. libldns-dev
 2. libavahi-compat-libdnssd-dev

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Amit


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Watch box supply与您共享了照片

[Watch box supply]

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box..etc

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5, Customer satisfaction

Warmly Tips： Our MOQ is 500pcs, if you are looking for a manufacturer to  
provide customer design watch boxes , and the quantity can reach our MOQ,  
why not contact wit us?


Best Regards,
Stephanie
<>

Where is CC and why do my downloads not find it?

[Samuel Morgan]

Hi-

I recently installed DEBIAN Linux on my 386 PC and then
tried to install an Apache web server, as I have on Mac and
Windows, binary and it asked for a C compiler.  Where do I get,
if I really need, a CC binary pre-built?  Seems a bit like
the chicken and the egg.

Can you help?

Thanks.

Re: Where is CC and why do my downloads not find it?

[Karl E. Jorgensen]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 07:29:41PM +, Samuel Morgan wrote:
> Hi-
> 
> I recently installed DEBIAN Linux on my 386 PC and then
> tried to install an Apache web server, as I have on Mac and
> Windows, binary and it asked for a C compiler.

How did you install apache?  It sounds like you downloaded some random
binary off the internet, rather than simply apt-get installing it...

There should be no need for downloading the Apache sources and
building it from source - just use the pre-built apache from Debian..

> Where do I get,
> if I really need, a CC binary pre-built?  Seems a bit like
> the chicken and the egg.

It's debian - it's all pre-built. If you need a compiler, apt-get
install gcc. But really: sounds like you've got a really weird apache
there..

Hope this helps

Regards
-- 
Karl E. Jorgensen


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Re: Gnome recommends iceweasel-l10n-all

[Artifex Maximus]

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:47 PM, Michael Biebl  wrote:
> On 16.10.2012 18:29, Artifex Maximus wrote:
>> when package selector able to choose at least one package to fulfill
>> requirement. For example gcc recommends "libc6-dev | libc-dev" and not
>> both.
>
> What might work is the following: All iceweasel-l10n-* packages have a
> Provides: iceweasel-l10-langpack
>
> and in gnome we depend on
> Depends: iceweasel-l10-all | iceweasel-l10-langpack
>
> This would allow you to uninstall the languages you don't need/want,
> while still making sure we have a fully translated iceweasel for everyone.

Sorry for return to this topic. I've tried to remove not necessary
languages and -all becomes broken package because of dependency. This
is not wanted so I cancel the process. So now I have a lot of packages
which just waste disk space. Similar to myspell. Would be great to
polish dependency a little for them. I'm not pushing just an idea. :-)

Bye,
a


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Re: Where is CC and why do my downloads not find it?

[Tom H]

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:29 PM, Samuel Morgan  wrote:
>
> I recently installed DEBIAN Linux on my 386 PC and then
> tried to install an Apache web server, as I have on Mac and
> Windows, binary and it asked for a C compiler.  Where do I get,
> if I really need, a CC binary pre-built?

Install gcc and make; or build-essential.

Why do you want to compile apache from source?


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usernames installed by packages

[Nick]

Having failed in my web searching, I ask for wisdom...

Suppose I have a web app where people can register, choosing a
username.  The app takes the username and creates an operating system
account on a Debian server.

Naturally I don't want to let people choose 'root' or 'nobody' or
'www-data' or 'bind' or...

How can I get a list of all the possible usernames that might be
required by packages on a server?  Or is this a misguided way to do it
and I should instead modify the user's choice by applying a prefix or
some such?

Thanks,
-- 
Nick


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btrfs on LUKS

[Christian Stalp]

Hello out there,
I want to prepare my new ssd as an encrypted fs. In order to do that I
took a reasonably new version of the network-installer and created:
first an ext3 partition to hold the kernel. Then one MB of free space
(the debian-installer does it that way if I choose an encrypted
FS-installation, can anybody tell my why?). Then the LUKS-partition and
at least 20% free space, because TRIM is a problem on encrypted SSDs:
http://asalor.blogspot.de/2011/08/trim-dm-crypt-problems.html

But on that LUKS-partition I want to create a btrfs-FS, but the only fs
I can choose here is ext3? Is there another way. I did it allready with
a LVM in between (dev->LUKS->LVM) but this bizarre because btrfs has
allready LVM-features. So is there another way except for mounting this
ssd and use btrfs-convert?

Thank you for help.

/christian


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Re: usernames installed by packages

[Jochen Spieker]

Nick:
> 
> How can I get a list of all the possible usernames that might be
> required by packages on a server?

I remember a previous discussion about this question and IIRC the
conclusion was that there is no such list. Some packages use prefixed
usernames (like debian-tor), but most don't.

> Or is this a misguided way to do it and I should instead modify the
> user's choice by applying a prefix or some such?

That is probably the best way to do it.

J.
-- 
If I was Mark Chapman I would have shot John Lennon with a water pistol.
[Agree]   [Disagree]
 


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: reportbug hangs

[Enrique Garcia]

 Hi, 
 the text mode seems to work. However, am I the only one who experience the 
problem with the gtk version with a very simple configuration?
# reportbug preferences file
# character encoding: UTF-8
# Version of reportbug this preferences file was written by
reportbug_version "4.12.6"
# default operating mode: one of: novice, standard, advanced, expert
mode advanced
# default user interface
#ui gtk2
# offline setting - comment out to be online
#offline
# name and email setting (if non-default)
# realname "Enrique Garcia"
email "x...@xxx.com"
# Disable fallback mode by commenting out the following:
no-cc
header "X-Debbugs-CC: x...@xxx.com"
smtphost reportbug.debian.org
# You can add other settings after this line.  See
# /etc/reportbug.conf for a full listing of options.

 Regards,
 Enrique
 

On Wednesday 24 October 2012 01:15:53 Hugo Vanwoerkom wrote:
> Enrique Garcia wrote:
> >  Hi,
> >  
> >  I just installed Debian and wanted to report a bug, but reportbug itself
> >  hang
> > 
> > after I configured it...
> > 
> >  I followed the configuration questions, the gtk appeared but it is
> >  completely
> > 
> > hang afterwards. Here is my .reportbugrc:
> 
> 
> >  It is also very annoying that I cannot Ctrl-C on the terminal, I have to
> >  kill
> > 
> > -9 the process. If I start reportbug afterwards, the gtk window appears
> > and hangs again.
> > 
> >  Any ideas?
> 
> Run reportbug from a VT?
> 
> Hugo


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Re: how to prevent dvd drives from being polled

[Frank McCormick]

On 31/10/12 01:15 PM, Dom wrote:

On 31/10/12 16:13, Dom wrote:

On 31/10/12 15:48, Frank McCormick wrote:

On 31/10/12 10:42 AM, lee wrote:

Darac Marjal  writes:


On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 03:25:18AM +0100, lee wrote:

Hi,

how do I prevent the dvd drives from being polled by udisks-daemon? I
can kill the process and it becomes a zombie, and I'd rather get
rid of
it.

This polling is something I really don't need or want! What else like
this is going on, and how do I disable it?


According to the man page[1], it should be as simple as (!) adding a
property to the device using a udev rule.


Apparently, yes --- but what rule or property is that? And how do I
disable it without rebooting? Udev stuff is a mystery, with
configuration that isn't readable by humans.





Googling the problem turned up this

SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_VENDOR}=="APPLE*", ENV{ID_MODEL}=="SD Card
Reader*", ENV{UDISKS_DISABLE_POLLING}="1"

Of course you'll have to make changes to match your CD-rom and where to
put the rule is a mystery (to me)...but it should get you started.


I believe the line should go in a new file called something like
/etc/udev/rules.d/99-local-rules

I haven't had a chance to test it yet


Ok, that file should have been called
/etc/udev/rules.d/99-local.rules

(All rules files must end with .rules)

It looks like the variable gets set for me with
SUBSYSTEM=="block", ENV{ID_CDROM}=="?*", ENV{UDISKS_DISABLE_POLLING}="1"

as the rule.

However, I can't confirm that this has disabled polling yet.



  Does on my machine.

--
Cheers
Frank


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Re: btrfs on LUKS

[Stan Hoeppner]

On 10/31/2012 5:46 PM, Christian Stalp wrote:
> Hello out there,
> I want to prepare my new ssd as an encrypted fs. In order to do that I
> took a reasonably new version of the network-installer and created:
> first an ext3 partition to hold the kernel. Then one MB of free space
> (the debian-installer does it that way if I choose an encrypted
> FS-installation, can anybody tell my why?). Then the LUKS-partition and
> at least 20% free space, because TRIM is a problem on encrypted SSDs:
> http://asalor.blogspot.de/2011/08/trim-dm-crypt-problems.html
> 
> But on that LUKS-partition I want to create a btrfs-FS, but the only fs
> I can choose here is ext3? Is there another way. I did it allready with
> a LVM in between (dev->LUKS->LVM) but this bizarre because btrfs has
> allready LVM-features. So is there another way except for mounting this
> ssd and use btrfs-convert?

Why didn't you purchase a self encrypting SSD?  Eliminates all of these
issues.  Lots of them available today.

-- 
Stan



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Trojan Detected by Kaspersky in One Debian DVD

[Alan Feuerbacher]

A couple of weeks ago I downloaded to my Windows 7 machine 10 DVD iso 
files for debian-6.0.6-amd64. I have not yet installed Debian to this 
machine.


Last night Kaspersky anti-virus detected a Trojan in one of the files:

debian-6.0.6-amd64-DVD-7.iso\pool\main\n\nepenthes\nepenthes_0.2.2-6_amd64.deb\data.tar\.\usr\share\doc\nepenthes\README.VFS

The Trojan is called Trojan-Downloader.BAT.ftp.z

Is this a real Trojan? If so, why would it be there? If not, what is it?

Thanks,
Alan


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Re: btrfs on LUKS

[Celejar]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:01:40 -0500
Stan Hoeppner  wrote:

> On 10/31/2012 5:46 PM, Christian Stalp wrote:
> > Hello out there,
> > I want to prepare my new ssd as an encrypted fs. In order to do that I
> > took a reasonably new version of the network-installer and created:
> > first an ext3 partition to hold the kernel. Then one MB of free space
> > (the debian-installer does it that way if I choose an encrypted
> > FS-installation, can anybody tell my why?). Then the LUKS-partition and
> > at least 20% free space, because TRIM is a problem on encrypted SSDs:
> > http://asalor.blogspot.de/2011/08/trim-dm-crypt-problems.html
> > 
> > But on that LUKS-partition I want to create a btrfs-FS, but the only fs
> > I can choose here is ext3? Is there another way. I did it allready with
> > a LVM in between (dev->LUKS->LVM) but this bizarre because btrfs has
> > allready LVM-features. So is there another way except for mounting this
> > ssd and use btrfs-convert?
> 
> Why didn't you purchase a self encrypting SSD?  Eliminates all of these
> issues.  Lots of them available today.

Price? Doing a quick check on Newegg, the cheapest SSDs currently start
at about $50-$60 (although one can occasionally find one on sale /
special / after rebate for $20-$30), and searching within those
results for 'encryption' indicates that the cheapest with that
capability is about $95.

No idea what the premium is for higher quality / more modern /
larger capacity drives, or to what extent Newegg's prices are
representative.

Celejar


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Re: Trojan Detected by Kaspersky in One Debian DVD

[John Hasler]

-- 
John Hasler


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